TROMBONE-L Digest 1539 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: origins of rap by Douglas Yeo 2) Re: Hollywood Trombones Christmas Music. by "Jeffrey Diehl" 3) Crown Tooth Theory by richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL 4) Long Tone Practice by "Bryce McGrew" 5) Re: the music thread - Rap by Chris Waage 6) re. Origins of Rap by Chris Waage 7) re: Origins of (c)Rap by "Bob Hall" 8) Re: Long Tone Practice by Mike Coyle 9) RE: RAP Resourses by "DOWDY, KENNETH S" 10) Re: Long Tone Practice by Wayne Dyess 11) New Years' Resolutions by BassBonist@aol.com 12) Re: New thread? Cheesy by paulel9@bellsouth.net 13) More on that long tone thing by Wayne Dyess 14) Rap by "Rodney Ellard" 15) rap, et al. by Mike Coyle 16) Fwd: Al Balestra Obituary by Chris Waage 17) Another passing. by "Richard Human, Jr." 18) Re: Long Tone Practice by Paul Riley 19) Galen Zinn's Practice Chart by Chris Waage 20) Re: New thread? Cheesy by Sequoia Middle School 21) RE: New thread? Cheesy by "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> 22) Re: Long Tone Practice by Mike Coyle 23) Re: New Years' Resolutions by Elisabeth Frederick 24) RE: New thread? Cheesy by "Bennett, Gordon (Contractor)" 25) Bye for a Bit by Chris Waage 26) IMPORTANT by Tbcwes@aol.com 27) REGARDING VIRUS WARNINGS by Listmonitor Trombone-L 28) Re: REGARDING VIRUS WARNINGS by Tbcwes@aol.com 29) RE: REGARDING VIRUS WARNINGS by BrianB@PR-CN.COM 30) BFN by Lisa Nelsen 31) RE: New thread? Cheesy by MikeSuter@aol.com 32) RE: the music thread - Rap/role of bass bone by james.c.shake@us.pwcglobal.com 33) Stopping Mail Without Unsubscribing by Listmonitor Trombone-L 34) Re: Bye for a Bit by Sequoia Middle School 35) Glenn Proffit by Chris Waage 36) Re: Long Tone Practice by "Jim Tempest" 37) Re: Stopping Mail Without Unsubscribing by Mike Coyle 38) Re: Master Classes and specifically Sauer's class by "Clifford G. Smith" 39) embouchure issue by Mike Coyle 40) Teaching Small Ensemble Roles by "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" 41) Re: origins of rap by sabutin@mindspring.com 42) DC in the House by "Douglas Calvin" 43) Re: Stopping Mail Without Unsubscribing by "Aaron Roth" 44) Re: the music thread by "Daniel Pliskin" 45) Re: origins of rap by Andrewsjon@aol.com 46) Re: trombone-tennis elbow (REALLY longwinded) by d.huettenbach@ndh.com (Detlef Huettenbach) 47) Re: Lest we forget. by "Daniel Pliskin" 48) Re: Long Tone Practice by "Daniel Pliskin" 49) Re: the music thread - Rap by "Aaron Roth" 50) Re: origins of rap by Mike Coyle 51) Re: Long Tone Practice by "Aaron Roth" 52) Happy Holidays by Neobopr@aol.com 53) RE: Teaching Small Ensemble Roles by "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> 54) RE: the music thread - Rap by "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> 55) bassoon by Cwtbone@aol.com 56) Re: Teaching Small Ensemble Roles by BassBonist@aol.com 57) O Holy Night by "Ian Cooper" 58) RE: the music thread by "Bennett, Gordon (Contractor)" 59) Re: Lest we forget. by Angie Brunk 60) For Sale Two Bass Trombones by BassBonist@aol.com 61) Re: Michael Davis Quintet+electronics by David Buckley 62) Re: O Holy Night by paulel9@bellsouth.net 63) RE: the music thread by Mike Coyle 64) RE: Stopping Mail Without Unsubscribing by "Jim O'Briant" 65) RE: Stopping Mail Without Unsubscribing by Mike Coyle 66) RE: Stopping Mail Without Unsubscribing by Mike Coyle 67) ITA Webmaster, Marta Horface by "John Lavoie" 68) group apology by Mike Coyle 69) Re: ITA Webmaster, Marta Horface by Chad Horsley 70) Re:Stopping Mail Without Unsubscribing by Feneley 71) RE: the music thread by Earl Needham 72) Re: group apology by Feneley 73) Re:Stopping Mail Without Unsubscribing by "Kenneth Dowdy" 74) FROM THE LIST MONITOR by Listmonitor Trombone-L 75) Re: Stopping Mail Without Unsubscribing by "Stewart M. Crane" 76) Re: Lest we forget. by "wayne e. collins" 77) Re: O Holy Night by Douglas Yeo 78) Now that everybody is mad at someone... by Douglas Yeo 79) Re: Stopping Mail Without Unsubscribing by "Tom Izzo" 80) Re: Galen Zinn's Practice Chart by Larry White 81) Re: Stopping Mail Without Unsubscribing by Larry White 82) Master Class et al by Eric Burger 83) Re: Lest we forget. by "Peter Jarnebrant" From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 07:11:11 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: origins of rap Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 11:14 PM -0500 12/13/99, Andrewsjon@aol.com wrote: > >Actually, the roots of rap music go back even further. Rap music was >prevalent amongst "slaves" working in the fields in the South. Rap music has >its' roots in early African history. This statement comes as a surprise to many of us who have studied musical forms and their evolution - including rap. Perhaps you would be kind enough to provide the list with some references to articles or other sources (peer reviewed, of course) which will enlighten more about that which you mention above. While you're at it, you also wrote, concerning people on the trombone-l: >There are those that defend the >position that only what has existed in the past is good. I've been following list threads with interest and haven't come across any in which a person made the statement "only what has existed in the past is good." Perhaps I missed it. Could you also kindly cite the source for your statement above? Thank you. -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 18:34:30 -0500 From: "Jeffrey Diehl" To: , Subject: Re: Hollywood Trombones Christmas Music. Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello, David! Here is a list of the personnel on the Hollywood Trombones CD: Tommy Pederson, Chauncey Welsch, Randy Aldcroft, Sonny Ausman, Bill Tole, Ernie Carlson, Harvey Newmark, Bob Payne, Jeff Reynolds, Donald Waldrop, Bob Florence, Charlie Loper, Dick Nash, Morris Repass, Bill Booth, Ira Nepus, Bob Sanders, Phil Teele, Alan Johnson, Alan Kaplan, Jim Sawyer, Mark Stevens, Roy Main. Need more information? I can give you a more detailed breakdown of soloists, arrangers, etc., in a private e-mail. Take care . . . Jeff Diehl From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:32:35 -0500 From: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Crown Tooth Theory Message-ID: <21E592FA8BA7D311B5B100062B001FE2082E0E@LEE2> I guess Sabutin put that one to rest! Crown tooth theory was but a tiny element in the Anatowind School of brass playing. What is interesting to me is that it is the only element that seems to have survived, and no one on this list appears to have ever heard of Anatowind or its founder (I have met him but can't recall his name). He claimed to work with most of the Chicago Symphony brass section back in the 70's. If you feel like looking him up, Sr Cecelia Schlaefer wrote her PhD dissertation on his method for her degree at Catholic University back in the late 70's. There is one other tiny element of his method that I retain: he described a good tone, pure and focused, as a "bone tone." Though his reason for calling it that is pretty far out (I think he thought the bones of the head actually resonated) I always thought it was a pretty apt description. Unless someone else has heard of Anatowind, I guess the "winnowing" process has taken care of it. (If you know him please don't forward this mildly derogatory email, you'll hurt his feelings; but ask him to post a synopsis of his theories for us to get REALLY derogatory with!) yours, tim richardson From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 05:58:57 -0800 From: "Bryce McGrew" To: TBone Central , trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Long Tone Practice Message-ID: <199912141359.FAA28512@smtp5.jps.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit How does everyone practice long tones? I'm just curious what methods are being used, and want to try some others. Bryce McGrew brycemc@jps.net Trombone players do it in 7 positions :) From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 07:55:07 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: Re: the music thread - Rap Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jon: First off, please do not put words in my mouth. Nowhere in my message did I say that rap music upsets me. Simply put, I stated that much of today's popular music has disconcertingly dark lyrics. The basic origins of rap lie exactly where I stated it. I am sure it was originally influenced by the slave chants and spirituals, but comparing rap music to those spiritually uplifiting spirituals is like comparing a Catholic high mass to a street riot. The texts of most, if not all of the chants and spirituals handed down from slavery times consists of songs set to uplift the spirit and take the focus away from the oppression and on to the promise of salvation. Much of rap music simply glorifies the negative in society. Notice I did not say ALL - as with any form of music it is impossible to issue a broad, sweeping categorization. Chris >In a message dated 12/13/99 7:20:35 PM Central Standard Time, >basstbn@waageworks.com writes: > ><< The origins of the genre lie in the ghetto music, and reflect the dark > outlook of the "typical" gang member - sex, drugs, robbery, prostitution, > murder, drive-bys, etc. >> > >Chris, > "andrewsjon@aol.com" wrote: >Actually, the roots of rap music go back even further. Rap music was >prevalent amongst "slaves" working in the fields in the South. Rap music has >its' roots in early African history. The music has evolved into the form that >upsets you so. Not all music comes from Europe. > >Jon _____________________________________________ Chris Waage basstbn@waageworks.com http://www.waageworks.com "Wisdom comes from Knowledge. Knowledge comes from Good Judgement. Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement." _____________________________________________ From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:14:30 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: re. Origins of Rap Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" After intensive research on my part, I have determined that Theodore Sussl, aka "Dr. Seuss", is the father of all rap music . . . "There's a wocket in my pocket, got an ink in the sink..." Just read any of his writings over a back-beat, and voila'! Instant rap music! ;-) Chris _____________________________________________ Chris Waage basstbn@waageworks.com http://www.waageworks.com "Wisdom comes from Knowledge. Knowledge comes from Good Judgement. Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement." _____________________________________________ From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:13:01 -0600 From: "Bob Hall" To: "Trombone Mailing List" Subject: re: Origins of (c)Rap Message-ID: <006301bf4645$b6c9cef0$dda11282@ejp4t.msstate.eddu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0060_01BF4613.6BF9F710"
Chris saith:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
After intensive research on my part, I have determined that Theodore Sussl,
aka "Dr. Seuss", is the father of all rap music . . .

"There's a wocket in my pocket, got an ink in the sink..."

Just read any of his writings over a back-beat, and voila'!  Instant rap music!

;-)

Chris
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
I never liked that Seuss stuff myself..... now I know why!!!!!!
 From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:20:32 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Long Tone Practice Message-ID: <199912141522.JAA13372@ties.k12.mn.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Bryce, I don't mean to sound simplistic of cynical, but.... recipe for long tones: initiate a tone on the trombone, sustain it. Mike At 05:58 AM 12/14/99 -0800, you wrote: >How does everyone practice long tones? I'm just curious what methods are >being used, and want to try some others. > > Bryce McGrew > brycemc@jps.net > > Trombone players do it in 7 positions :) > From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:39:22 -0600 From: "DOWDY, KENNETH S" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: RAP Resourses Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain For anyone who cares, the following are some web sites that have some information on the history of RAP. http://daveyd.com/raptitle.html http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palladium/8153/ http://www.yale.edu/ynhti/curriculum/units/1993/4/93.04.04.x.html I just tested the above links and they work. If they don't for you, you will have to fugure it out for yourself. I'm not real good at this web stuff. Since the term "peer reviewed" means different things to different people, I'll leave it to the individual to determine the credibility of each of the above sites. Ken Dowdy From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:07:57 -0600 From: Wayne Dyess To: brycemc@jps.net Cc: Trombone-L Subject: Re: Long Tone Practice Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >How does "everyone" practice long tones? I'm just curious what methods are >being used, and want to try some others. > > Bryce McGrew > brycemc@jps.net a la Remington: I personally start on an easy F in the staff. The Remington method returns to 1st position after each succession to a longer position (i.e. 1st to 2nd, 1st to 3rd, 1st to 4th, etc. to 1st to 7th -- no trigger work, yet). I expend a FULL breath on each 2 note sequence. Moreover, start as soft as positive and GRADUALLY crescendo to a peak of fortissimo that coincides with the slide change, at which point a gradual decrescendo takes over to the end of the breath. I also gauge my breath control with a metronome. Start around MM=60. Go slower if you can do the above in one breath; faster if you are having problems making the "phrase." After the middle ground, I'll go to the Bb on top of the staff and repeat the above sequence in like manner. A few breathing exercises now (8 counts in, 8 counts out, 8 times), I progress to the same type thing on the low Bb. This time, I go beyond the low E by incorporating the F attachment, going to the low C. Some days, I might feel brave enough to do this with pedals. Usually not. But a bass trombonist probably would. That's what I do, when I do 'em. I did these religiously from about 10th grade (1964) until around 1974. Ten years of that and you ought to have a decent tone, huh? I would hope so! Honestly? I don't do the long tones as much as I should anymore. But when I need them, I always resort back to the above description and I most always feel better afterward. Except when I'm overdrawn at the bank. Then nothing much helps. ;-) Keep blowin', --Wayne Dyess _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ Wayne Dyess, Ed.D. Tel. +1-409-880-8146 _/ _/ Lamar University Music Dept. _/ _/ P.O.Box 10044, Beaumont, TX.77710 _/ _/ _/ _/ United Musical Instruments (UMI) _/ _/ "If it sounds good, it is good." -Duke Ellington _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Old trombone players never die; They just slide away! From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:05:46 EST From: BassBonist@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: New Years' Resolutions Message-ID: <0.3b92de2f.2587c4da@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey, I know it's early. Sometimes I don't give myself a challenge for the coming new year, but today I was think about what goals I set last December 31 or so. I told myself to spend less time on the computer. I actually did. I also wanted to get in more practice time. That also happened. Since I'm going to be off the List for a couple of weeks, I thought I'd at least get this thread started so that if anyone is inclined to post their own New Years Resolutions then I could see what other folks are thinking about. So far my only personal challenges for 2000 would be to do more of the volunteering thing, either playing for people in hospitals, nursing homes, retirement homes or school children. See you all later! Matt Varho bass trombonist Aliso Viejo Symphony Slyde Rowe Trombone Quartet From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:59:18 -0600 From: paulel9@bellsouth.net To: maxwellg@bcsd.k12.ca.us Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: New thread? Cheesy Message-ID: <38566956.F7B72008@bellsouth.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sequoia Middle School wrote: > > Paul Lukas just posted the line-up for his Christmas program, of last > Saturday. I would liked to have been in attendance, as it sounds like > a good time was had by listener, as well as performer. > > My question, to all is: What constitutes "cheezy"? ALL RIGHT...ALL RIGHT, ALREADY! I admit I enjoy holiday programs both playing and listening. And the audience usually enjoys it too! Nevertheless, I call it cheesy because it feels like I've played Christmas concerts a jillion times over the past 40 years and I get bored sometimes. But I always exert 110% effort because it pleases the audience. And they're actually the most important part of music because, without them, there would be no need for the band to exist! Don't get me wrong; all of the musicians I perform with feel about the same way. Gary, quit teasing! You know where I'm coming from! Now, Sunday night, several musicians and I were hired to play a Christmas cantata with choir at First Baptist Church in Humboldt TN. I sweated that one because much of the music was in five sharps or six flats. Don't ask what keys they are...I haven't a clue! My fingers are still sore from staying up late writing in sharps and flats with a dull pencil! Challenging scores are NOT cheesy. Merry Christmas! -- E. PAUL LUKAS TROMBONIST, PUBLICIST BARTLETT COMMUNITY CONCERT BAND MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE USA PAULEL9@BELLSOUTH.NET From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:31:13 -0600 From: Wayne Dyess To: Trombone-L Subject: More on that long tone thing Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I wrote: I personally start on an easy F in the staff. The Remington method returns to 1st position after each succession to a longer position (i.e. 1st to 2nd, 1st to 3rd, 1st to 4th, etc. to 1st to 7th -- no trigger work, yet). But I forgot to explain WHY Mr. Remington would have his students to return to 1st position. Russ Schultz, our new Dean and one of Remington's last students, explained it to me. It was not as I had previously thought -- for tuning. That's a good reason, too, all right, but not the fundamental (ahem) reason. The trombone SOUNDS its best in first position, just as any other brass instrument sound their best "open." So, while intonation can be checked with the associated intervals, the REAL reason is to come back to the best sound on the instrument so that you can make each intervening longer position SOUND with like timbre and quality. That's an important concept to learn. SOUND. Gotta love it. --Wayne Dyess _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ Wayne Dyess, Ed.D. Tel. +1-409-880-8146 _/ _/ Lamar University Music Dept. _/ _/ P.O.Box 10044, Beaumont, TX.77710 _/ _/ _/ _/ United Musical Instruments (UMI) _/ _/ "If it sounds good, it is good." -Duke Ellington _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Old trombone players never die; They just slide away! From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:22:05 -0800 From: "Rodney Ellard" To: "Trombone-L" Subject: Rap Message-ID: <004301bf464f$5e913ac0$ccef94d1@rod> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0040_01BF460C.4E77F720"
Chris W. wrote:
 
"The origins of the genre lie in the ghetto music, and reflect the dark
outlook of the "typical" gang member - sex, drugs, robbery, prostitution,
murder, drive-bys, etc.  "
 
And how much of this has become the day to day life of teenagers (and, of course, the day to day life of the rest of us who are parents or teachers or merely are out walking when we encounter a group of teenagers) outside of the ghetto? Littleton Colorado comes immediately to mind.  Murder as a fashion statement.  There's something to take into the new millenium.  But, you have to admit, as music, rap has been EFFECTIVE at conveying and creating feeling and emotion.  Too bad so much of that feeling and emotion is fear.
 
Rod
 From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:21:54 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: rap, et al. Message-ID: <199912141623.KAA21277@ties.k12.mn.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; types="text/plain,text/html"; boundary="=====================_4563308==_.ALT" My friends,

This whole discussion of rap was been generated by some off hand comments using it as an example of a certain type of music which, initially, was to make a point in someone's post about musical preferences.  That it has taken on a life of its own as a topic for discussion on TROMBONE-L (enough emphasis?) is beyond peculiar.  I really think it is simply being exploited and has created a platform from which a few people have decided to create controversy for controversy's sake.  Rap, its varied and questionable roots aside, is a suigeneris medium, discussion of  which can definitely find a more appropriate home.  There are groups and lists in great abundance on the Internet which are far better fora for such things.

I have no doubt that this thread has been taken seriously by some and even entertained in the light of real musicological inquiry.  I am not a particular fan of some current musicological themes (for instance  those created by Susan McClary, calling Beethoven a rapist, as she once styled him in a discussion, with a remarkably bitter feminist stance, of the Ninth Symphony; or a paper delivered at a recent meeting of the AMS entitled "Homosexuality in the Music of Tchaikovsky  -I think it is dangerous enough to ascribe gender to music, let alone sexual orientation -- , on and on...  ).  My musicological direction is more along the lines of two of my mentors Bob Bailey (NYU) and Jim Hepokowski (Yale) and are somewhat more conservative than those of the "modern" school.  However, my preferences are not important here.  My point is that there are fora which will gladly entertain these subjects, and other "exotic" subjects, with great zeal, and the feedback that you will get will undoubtedly be of far more interest than what we are generating here (veiled invective, convenient personal labelling, and frequently bad musicology).

PLEASE do not take my VERY SPECIFIC words as a comment on everyone's intention in this thread.  I realize that many of you have contributed meaningful things and have done so with great sincerity.  All to often though, much of what is being offered is either "controversy bating" or attempts to defend ourselves from attack.  The adolescent urge to shock always generates a response.  It is never a particularly good response and when we degenerate into these mud slinging matches we reduce the importance of this list and lose a little dignity along the way.

Mike Coyle
 From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:29:05 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: Fwd: Al Balestra Obituary Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This came in on the brass-l. Chris >Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:25:07 -0500 >From: David Winograd >Reply-To: tubaman@ulster.net >Organization: David Winograd Entertainment >X-Accept-Language: en >MIME-Version: 1.0 >To: brass-digest-request@quartz.gly.fsu.edu >Subject: Al Balestra Obituary >Sender: owner-brass@gly.fsu.edu >Precedence: bulk >Status: U > >Al Balestra, tubist, educator, conductor, husband, father, and all round > >GREAT GUY - passed on Sunday, December 12, 1999, in Syracuse, New York, >at the age of 76. Al studied tuba with William Bell, and was the >original (charter member!) principal tuba of the Syracuse Symphony >Orchestra. Al was the Music Director/Conductor of the LaFayette >Community Band, the Skaneateles Community Band, and played tuba and >euphonium in the Auburn Civic Band, all in the Syracuse area. Al was >the first tuba major at Syracuse, and was Professor of Tuba there for 15 > >years. He was a retired 29-year Band/Music Director in the LaFayette >Central School District. >Viewing is scheduled for Wednesday, December 15, from 2 to 4pm, and from > >7 to 9pm, at the John C. Tindall Funeral Home (315-468-5521), 1921 West >Genesee St., Syracuse, NY 13204. >The funeral is scheduled for Thursday, December 16, at 10am, in the >Church of St. Ann's (church phone: 315-468-1803), 4461 Onondaga Blvd., >Syracuse, NY . Brass music will be played at the funeral by his many >dear friends. >Send your condolences to his wife, Rosina Balestra, 103 Horace Drive, >Syracuse, NY 13219-2638. > >Respectfully submitted by David Winograd > _________________________________________ Chris Waage chris@trombone.org Associate Webmaster The Online Trombone Journal http://www.trombone.org From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:31:46 -0500 From: "Richard Human, Jr." To: Trombone List Subject: Another passing. Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Friends, From: Mark E. Weaver - cpo_m_weaver@unixlink.uscga.edu Bob Briggs recently passed away. He attended New England Conservatory where he studied with John Coffee 1942-1943. He was Bass Trombonist with the National Symphony 1946-1950 under Hans Kindler and Bass Trombone with the San Antonio Symphony under Max Riener in the 50's. Bob also toured with the Ballet Russe de Monte Carlo 1942-1943. From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:36:17 -0500 From: Paul Riley To: DyessJW@hal.lamar.edu Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Long Tone Practice Message-ID: <38567201.3018B79A@greenlinnet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wayne, Do you use your tongue to articulate the beginning of each tone? How about at the position change? Paul L. Riley paul@greenlinnet.com From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:06:24 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: Galen Zinn's Practice Chart Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I finally pulled it from the back burner.... Galen Zinn had asked me if I could convert his practice chart graphic into an editable file. I have created it using Microsoft Excel '98. I used a default font of Arial, which is a cross-platform font from Microsoft. PC or Mac should interpret it. The graphic versions are simple .jpg files If you encounter any problems with these files, please let me know and I'll do my best to fix it. For PC users: http://www.waageworks.com/misc/practice_chart.zip For Macintosh users: http://www.waageworks.com/misc/practice_chart.sea.hqx Graphic versions: http://www.waageworks.com/misc/practice_routine.jpg http://www.waageworks.com/misc/practice_routine01.jpg _____________________________________________ Chris Waage basstbn@waageworks.com http://www.waageworks.com "Wisdom comes from Knowledge. Knowledge comes from Good Judgement. Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement." _____________________________________________ From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:04:57 -0800 From: Sequoia Middle School To: paulel9@bellsouth.net, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: New thread? Cheesy Message-ID: <385678B9.D084F100@bcsd.k12.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit paulel9@bellsouth.net wrote: > > My question, to all is: What constitutes "cheezy"? > > > Gary, quit teasing! You know where I'm coming from! No teasing intended. I've always been kinda dense concerning certain words we use and saw a chance to have some definition I could grasp. I now have more to go on. I love macaroni and cheeze (just look at me) and bleu cheeze with a slice of watermellon is to die for. Maybe that is why my trombone (required content) has that certain penicilin air about it. (:>)) Thanks for all the help everyone. Gary Maxwell Bass Trombone Bakersfield Symphony Orchestra One school Christmas program down-three more to go today. From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:14:57 -0600 From: "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: New thread? Cheesy Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I was with my dad in a store within the past few years, and we stopped to look at some of that build-your-own-wooden-furniture-from-a-mass-produced-kit stuff. (Gee, what a lot of hyphens!). He said something like. "That's real cheesy. Bad design. (blah blah blah). It's pure cheese. Hmm. Why did I call it that? I like cheese." Since at the time, I couldn't recall hearing anyone but him ever call anything cheesy, I assumed it was a leftover bit of his high school slang that he had just caught himself using. But now Paul Lukas has started a thread on cheesy music. Hmm. I had the impression that Paul was nearer to my generation than to my dad's. Anyone have any idea where "cheesy" came from and what, if anything, it really means besides "I don't admire or respect that"? Somehow, it seems more descriptive of cheap furniture made of too-soft wood than overly familiar music. ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ David Guion, Cataloger John Marshall Law School 315 S. Plymouth Ct. Chicago, IL 60604 Voice: (312) 427-2737 x 552 Fax; (312) 427-8307 "Outside of a dog, books are a man's best friend; inside of a dog, it's too dark to read"--Groucho Marx ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:21:10 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: peabus@greenlinnet.com Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Long Tone Practice Message-ID: <199912141723.LAA29578@ties.k12.mn.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The traditional Remington approach to long tones is this: start on middle B-flat (whole note at about MM=72, for one measure) down to middle A, back up to B-flat, down to A-flat...continue to B-flat down to F. Then from F down to E, F to E-flat..so on down to low B-flat. Then low B-flat to A, B-flat A-flat.. so on to low E. You can hear this warm up on the CD "The Legacy of Emory Remington" (a recording of the Eastman Trombone Choir) with Raplh Sauer playing some of the Remington warm ups. The articulation should be a very broad, not forced TAH or DAH - it should be a relatively round attack and played at mezzo forte - mezzo piano. The exercise should strive for well rounded blocks of sound with clean , broad attacks from one note to the other. Use what Remington referred to as a "warm breath" slow moving moist, warm air flowing through the horn. Remington would say, "each note a little gem." Wayne is right that "the Chief" designed this exercise to not only provide a good general warm up and help with stability of sustained notes, but as a way of working on intonation - using the notes B-flat and F (1st position) as the tonal reference points. Every lesson I ever had with my teachers who were Remington students (I missed Remington at Eastman by about 6 years) started each lesson with long tones (usually playing along with me). We also started every trombone choir rehearsal with long tones - followed by several other Remington warm ups. The Remington warm ups are available in a version annotated by Don Hunsberger and with transcribed excerpts from discussions with Remington (I believe it is from Accura Press). I, however, use an ancient, tattered copy of the warm ups written in Remington's own hand. Very inspiring :) Emory Remington: "If you can sing "TAH," you can play "TAH" on the Trombone." Remington, from all accounts I have been privy too (and they have been many) was a lovely man with a great capacity for teaching and a gentle, avuncular nature. I am proud to be one of his musical grand children :) Mike At 11:36 AM 12/14/99 -0500, you wrote: >Wayne, > >Do you use your tongue to articulate the beginning of each tone? How about at >the position change? > >Paul L. Riley >paul@greenlinnet.com > From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:26:44 -0800 From: Elisabeth Frederick To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: New Years' Resolutions Message-ID: <38567DD4.60EBCDED@nctimes.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Although my 'new years resolutions' being as soon as school gets out, Wendsday. They can be considered as such. I plan on really digging into my practicing and putting some very good time in on improvisation so I can get a scholarship to the college of my choice, Berklee College of Music. Some other things I want to get done include getting my computer set up to record myself and write music. Haha, then I can make CD's of my playing!! Theres something that dosen't need to be marketed just yet! ;^) Happy New Year, almost!! Elisabeth From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 12:28:08 -0500 From: "Bennett, Gordon (Contractor)" To: "'TBone List'" Subject: RE: New thread? Cheesy Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Davie Guion wrote: >Anyone have any idea where "cheesy" came from and what, >if anything, it really means besides "I don't admire or >respect that"? >From my handy-dandy Office Edition of the American Heritage Dictionary: cheesy (adj.) 1. Like cheese. 2. (Slang) Of poor quality; shoddy. (Example and obligatory trombone content all rolled up into one:) Any horn that can't stand up to having fireworks launched from it is a cheesy trombone. Gordon Bennett Harris Air Traffic Control Communications "It's been my observation that 90% of statisticians pretty much ruin it for the other 30%." - Keith Sullivan From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:32:56 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: Bye for a Bit Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Friends: Due to some serious time crunch issues, I will be off the list for a few days. In case I'm not back before then, may the upcoming season bring you peace and joy, and may the last year of this millenium bring you happiness and prosperity. Thanks for a great 1999! Chris Waage _____________________________________________ Chris Waage basstbn@waageworks.com http://www.waageworks.com "Wisdom comes from Knowledge. Knowledge comes from Good Judgement. Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement." _____________________________________________ From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 12:56:31 EST From: Tbcwes@aol.com To: Mbartel@bostonconservatory.edu, kevinbrodeur@hotmail.com, dclemens@newenglandconservatory.edu, Tuba78ac1@aol.com, Subject: IMPORTANT Message-ID: <0.93a2d2c8.2587decf@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit IMPORTANT!!!! On December 25, you will get an email addressed "lump of coal." Do not open it. Inside is a dealy virus. This is not a hoax. It was reported on CBS news. Email this to as many people as you can. GET THE WORD OUT!!! From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 12:17:21 -0600 From: Listmonitor Trombone-L To: Trombone-L Subject: REGARDING VIRUS WARNINGS Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Please refrain from sending virus warnings to the entire list. Granted, these are a major concern, however, there are many places to find this information. Symantec Anti-Virus Research Center: http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/ Dr. Solomon's Virus Central: http://www.drsolomons.com/vircen/index.cfm LM --------------------------------------- trombone-l digest archives and useful trombone-l information are available at http://www.cjnetworks.com/~tsks From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:22:51 EST From: Tbcwes@aol.com To: tsks@cjnetworks.com, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: REGARDING VIRUS WARNINGS Message-ID: <0.5f76f14f.2587e4fb@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks. I did not intend to forward this message. Must have hit the wrong hot key. -Wes From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:41:37 -0500 From: BrianB@PR-CN.COM To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: REGARDING VIRUS WARNINGS Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > Please refrain from sending virus warnings to the entire > list. Granted, > these are a major concern, however, there are many places to find this > information. The major concern is that this "warning" and all others like it are hoaxes. Never forward these to anyone. Ask your system admin about it or check this website. http://kumite.com/myths Brian From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:44:18 -0000 From: Lisa Nelsen To: "'Trom list'" Subject: BFN Message-ID: <01BF4663.56AC43E0@la-the-duck.demon.co.uk> Just another list member signing off for a while...and wishing you all a merry Christmas and bug free new year.... Alex. From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:51:31 EST From: MikeSuter@aol.com To: 8guion@jmls.edu, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: New thread? Cheesy Message-ID: <0.8c94f151.2587ebb3@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Guys, <> OK, my silly puns aside, I've been led to believe "cheesy" is an extension of the term "Mickey Mouse" as a derisive term for music that is simplistic and aimed at the lowest common denominator of the audience. MS From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:14:52 -0500 From: james.c.shake@us.pwcglobal.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: the music thread - Rap/role of bass bone Message-ID: <85256847.00644A29.00@intlnamsmtp20.us.pw.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-disposition: inline On a light-hearted note: isn't Rap just a contemporary form of Sprechstimme/Sprechgesang? ;-) (Think of Alban "ghetto" Berg - on 2nd thought , better not!) There's very little totally new under the sun - but many variations/modifications on what has gone before. Speaking of Berg, I still remember as a kid listening to our local "classical" radio station (Henry Fogel, now exec. director of the Chicago Sym., ran it years ago). One day, I thought I heard our next-door neighbor yelling at his wife (as he was prone to do after a few drinks). Turns out that it was one of Berg's operas on our radio (Lulu?? I was too young to know or care which one)! (This isn't a blanket criticism of Berg, however. I actually enjoyed analyzing his pre-serial music in theory class!) Obligatory trombone content - our 12 piece brass band is playing a concert for high school students tomorrow night. As a relatively new bass trombone player (played tenor for 35 yrs however), what pearls of wisdom should I impart to the students as to the role of the bass trombone in band/orchestral music - I know that I'm doing more than just adding "edge" to the tuba part/bass line, or being the third trombone. Jim Shake Actuarial Musician ---------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 12:57:21 -0600 From: Listmonitor Trombone-L To: Trombone-L Subject: Stopping Mail Without Unsubscribing Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To use any of these commands, send them by e-mail to: listproc@lists.missouri.edu Stop mail without unsubscribing:SET TROMBONE-L MAIL POSTPONE Restarting mail after postponing it: SET TROMBONE-L MAIL ACK (if you wish to receive each individual message) SET TROMBONE-L MAIL DIGEST (if you wish to receive the digest) Should you encounter any difficulties during this process, contact me by e-mail to: tsks@cjnetworks.com --------------------------------------- trombone-l digest archives and useful trombone-l information are available at http://www.cjnetworks.com/~tsks From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:55:49 -0800 From: Sequoia Middle School To: basstbn@waageworks.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Bye for a Bit Message-ID: <385692B4.93EB530B@bcsd.k12.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris Waage wrote: > Friends: > > Due to some serious time crunch issues, I will be off the list for a few days. So long Chris. Get your work done and instruct Kathy to give us a fine, new, healthy baby to brag about here on the Tbn-L. All our best! Gary Maxwell Bass Trombone Bakersfield Symphony Orchestra From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:03:44 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: Glenn Proffit Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have a friend who is trying to contact Glenn Proffit in regard to an instrument Glenn has for sale. If anyone on the list has his telephone number, please e-mail, or call me at (800) 777-7171 ext. 668. Thanks! Chris _________________________________________ Chris Waage chris@trombone.org Associate Webmaster The Online Trombone Journal http://www.trombone.org From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:02:36 -0800 From: "Jim Tempest" To: brycemc@jps.net, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Long Tone Practice Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Here are a couple of ideas to throw into the pot. Follow Wayne Dyess' description of the long tone exercise with the following additions/variations. 1. Think of inhalation as being an important element of each phrase. Imagine you are a bellows and strive to attain maximum expansion when you inhale while creating a minimum of tension. When you reach the point of no return (ie, you are so full of air that you simply must blow out), let the air change direction to start the first note of each group. At first, use a breath attack; once you are comfortable with letting the air move more freely, start using your tongue to clarify the initial attack . The use of a breathing tube to remind yourself of what it feels like to breath properly is very helpful here (big thanks from me to Mr. Kleinhammer on this one). 2. If you find that your tone colour changes when you change positions and articulate the second note, eliminate the tongue on the second pitch and emphasize the glissando between the two notes. Slow down your slide and really "get into" the sound of the gliss as you move from first position to the second note. Imagine it is merely an extension of the beautiful sound you are making in first position that connects the second note to the first. Once you can consistently do this, gradually increase the slide speed. When you can move the slide quickly without interfering with the tone, the gliss should be barely perceptible. Then, a soft tongue can be added to clarify everything. 3. Play long tone exercises in a darked room or with your eyes closed. Tone is what it's all about and if you shut off your eyes, your ears will become much more sensitive. Listen to the trombone player who lives in your imagination and always plays beautifully and see if you can match his/her sound as you play the exercise. ----------------------------------------------- Jim Tempest Tenor & Bass Trombone Performance & Instruction (604) 837-2872 From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:05:41 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: tsks@cjnetworks.com Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Stopping Mail Without Unsubscribing Message-ID: <199912141907.NAA13753@ties.k12.mn.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" OK, SET TROMBONE-L MAIL POSTPONE makes sense, but what the hell does the "ACK" in "SET TROMBONE-L MAIL ACK" mean? Is it "b"ack? :) <--------- look, I'm smilin', that means this is a light hearted post and should not be taken offensively. Mike > >Restarting mail after postponing it: > SET TROMBONE-L MAIL ACK (if you wish to receive each individual message) > SET TROMBONE-L MAIL DIGEST (if you wish to receive the digest) > >Should you encounter any difficulties during this process, contact me by >e-mail to: > tsks@cjnetworks.com >--------------------------------------- > trombone-l digest archives and useful > trombone-l information are available > at http://www.cjnetworks.com/~tsks > From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:18:19 -0800 From: "Clifford G. Smith" To: Subject: Re: Master Classes and specifically Sauer's class Message-ID: <00ad01bf4667$fcec8cc0$6a358e18@cablecoop.ispchannel.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'll see his 2 cents and raise him 2. I went to the trombone day at UC Hayward in October, at which Ralph Sauer presented a master class. (a belated THANK YOU to Dean Hubbard and the others who organized that wonderful event!). I hadn't ever been to a master class before, and hence really did not know what to expect the master class to be. When Mr. Sauer came out and started demonstrating various Conn instruments, I must confess that I was initially somewhat put off; it did seem rather like an infomercial. However, my reaction changed. Mr. Sauer was not hawking the instruments, but rather simply comparing them, for example the sound of different bells with the same slide, and then switching slides with the same bell. I found the comparisons (e.g. between types of brass) to be enlightening, and of value regardless of what brand of instrument you might be considering. Okay, I didn't expect the master class to be so equipment focused, but I did find that part of the class educational and useful nevertheless. And the equipment comparisons/demos were only a fraction (perhaps half) of Sauer's session. He also listened to, critiqued, and taught two students. And he spent a good amount of time in a question and answer period; some of his responses seemed like mini-lectures (which left me thirsting for more). Overall, I found Sauer's session to be very informative and educational - a very positive experience. Was it truly a "master class?" I'd refer to James Scott's posting (excerpt below) about degrees of commercialism. For me, it was a very positive experience - even if I did wish he had spent more time presenting a structured lecture. I am also grateful that UMI sponsored the whole-day event, which included a lot more than just Sauer's session. So what exactly is a master class supposed to be? Is the content or format of a master class generally understood/agreed upon? Cheers, Cliff **************************************************** James Scott wrote: > My $.02 - > > Any master class or clinic sponsored by an instrument manufacturer or a > music store, is in fact an advertisement for that company whether or not > they are specifically mentioned by the artist. Just having their name > listed in the program, or on a banner is already a form of advertisement - > it's really just a matter of how blatant the advertising is. > From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:16:54 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: embouchure issue Message-ID: <199912141919.NAA15278@ties.k12.mn.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have a question that is the product of a discussion I had with friends a few days ago. When people come back to playing after a long time off (me for instance, after a 15 years rest :) they frequently go through a rough period trying to "find" that "sweet spot" again. In my case, I tried that for a while and then though, well, perhaps my face has changed a bit in 15 years (for the better, of course) and my "sweet spot" is no longer what or where it was. I have taken the approach that i should treat the instrument as a beginner in many respects and try to let it all come back naturally as it wants to now. I would really like to know what you all think about this and if you have any suggestions as to how to most efficiently find what your natural and most advantages embouchure. The greatest frustration I found was that I KNOW how to play the trombone and can remember the experience of playing like it was yesterday. however, when you don't yet have the musculature and strength you cannot do what you used to! Very madding stuff and it takes the patience of a saint to try to remain slow and steady and not start trying to play all your favorite pieces, or worse yet, favorite Rosolino and Fontana licks! Also, is anyone here familiar with a trombonist named Larry Zimmerman (probably in Minneapolis) Please write soon and a lot :) Mike From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:36:16 -0600 From: "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" To: "'Trombone-L'" Subject: Teaching Small Ensemble Roles Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Dear List: As a lurker mostly, I usually practice keeping my big mouth shut, but as will happen to all of us, once in a while I say something and somebody takes me up on it. ;-) Our brass quintet offered to the high school band director an open rehearsal with his students prior to contest this year. The idea is we would play some of the music the kids will be playing this year. That is not so bad, but the director has now asked us to discuss the way the group is organized, how we work together, how we over come problems and build teamwork. He is hoping the students will learn how to work together more efficiently and achieve a better performance in this way. We will do this in January 00. Since the quintet informally "wings" its way through these issues, can you recommend a reference that would get me a started on how to teach ensemble dynamics? I am also interested in what you would teach. Do any of you formally teach this to your students? I realize that we could simply demonstrate how we do it, but I am looking to do more. Thanks and Happy Holidays! Rick Marple San Antonio TX From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 15:00:03 -0500 From: sabutin@mindspring.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: origins of rap Message-ID: <199912142001.PAA06958@smtp7.atl.mindspring.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:11 AM 12/14/99 -0500, you wrote: >At 11:14 PM -0500 12/13/99, Andrewsjon@aol.com wrote: > >> >>Actually, the roots of rap music go back even further. Rap music was >>prevalent amongst "slaves" working in the fields in the South. Rap music has >>its' roots in early African history. > > >This statement comes as a surprise to many of us who have studied >musical forms and their evolution - including rap. Perhaps you would >be kind enough to provide the list with some references to articles >about that which you mention above. ===================== Well, I have no sources or articles which I can easily access to support what I'm going to say, nor do I have the time to research them, but as usual, I'm gonna give it a try anyway... Broadly speaking, the earliest evidence we have of something that resembles rap music...that is a spoken/sung statement of some length couched in rhythmic and/or rhyming terms, accompanied by some sort of musical accompaniment...would have to be the art of the bards of Greece, such as Homer. The Odyssey and Iliad were just really long rap pieces, when you get down to it... I'm sure there were EARLIER precursors...rhyme and rhythm are very natural memory aids, and musical accompaniment to ANY dramatic or comedic performance always serves to heighten the effect, if done right. (Witness the ubiquitous underscoring of films and TV shows.) The troubadour tradition in Europe is I'm sure an expression of the same human tendency...as are the Psalms of the Bible in their original languages, I'll betcha. As far as more immediate influences...I HAVE heard field hollers recorded by Allen Lomax and others in the early part of this century that sound suspiciously like rap, and the drumming sessions at Congo Square in New Orleans during slavery times (The slave owners banned most drumming because they [correctly] thought it was an aspect of the African culture that would act against their own interests of keeping their slaves as unorganized, docile and defeated as they possibly could...Congo Square was one of the only places in the South where Africans were free to play the musics of their own culture during those bad times.) were well known as places where an African could go and hear the latest news + views sung and chanted to the accompaniment of an interesting rhythm section. Let's not forget all the preachers in all the down-home churches all over this country...black AND white, I might add. Rhythm sections, call and response, STRONG time feels...sounds like rap to me... Also...check out some of the mid-twentieth century American pop music. Lots of rappish stuff in Cab Calloway, in Screamin' Jay Hawkins, Jerry Lee Lewis, Johnny Cash... Enough... Later... S. From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:30 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 15:07:01 -0500 From: "Douglas Calvin" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: DC in the House Message-ID: <00db01bf466e$ca661da0$9144f7a5@sunnyside> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00D8_01BF4644.DFBA1D20"
Gosh, I've been trying to post this message for days now and it keeps coming back! Hopefully, this time...

>I live in Washington, DC. Yup, the place where all kinds of terrible social
>>statistics (poverty, crime, etc) co-exist with the seat of power of the US
>>government. If you just listened to the news, it sounds like a horrible
>>place. It's a great place though, and it ain't all bad, not by a far shot.
>>There's a lot of beautiful people from all walks of life.
>>
>>Rap, and in particular a certain drum beat called gogo are prevalent. Some
>>of it is very negative and some is very boring to listen to, but like all
>>art forms, there are many strains within the genre. Lots of it is
>>innovative, positive and musically pretty advanced -- including working
>with
>>a lot of live jazz ensembles and "samples" from past and current jazz
>>greats. Lots of the messages speak not about bad things but positive
>things,
>>feelings, sentiments, etc. -- very much like the tradition of the blues,
>>jazz, etc., just more heavily focussed on the spoken word parts.
>>
>>Although the noteriety of rap, and it's more negative groups get a lot of
>>attention, it's not new. The gogo beats for example, picked up quite
>>naturally by kids in the street, are direct traditional beats from Senegal
>and Ghana.
>>The more recent (early 80's) popular drive was heavily influenced and
>>inspired by NYC bands, like Grandmaster Flash, who used their art to
>address
>>things like drug abuse, racism, apartheid and other social ills (yes, even
>>sexism) and celebrations.
>>
>>I say this just because the comments I've read seem heavily weighed by
>>stereotypes and zero knowledge of the genre as a whole. The negative stuff
>>is bad news, but if you explore a little you'll find a strong
counter-force
>>to all the bad news.
>>
>>Rap, hip hop etc ARE the music of the young generations -- across color
and
>>class lines.
>>
>>If those of you who have kids and they're just listening to the negative
>>stuff, then I suggest you visit your favorite music store and ask for some
>>suggestions -- there's lots out there. You might even find something you
>>like. The Soul Rebels and the Rebirth Brass Band, both out of New Orleans,
>>have some amazing sounds and very positive messages -- and great bone
work.
>>
>>Also, for a great crossover trombonist, check out Joseph Bowie and his
>bands
>>the Ethnic Art Ensemble and DeFunkt. Defunkt is pretty heavy but some
great
>>blowing -- some of you might find it pretty inspiring.
>>
>>Personally, I've been tuning into some of Steve Turre's 'bone playing of
>>late, to great pleasure and enjoyment of some great jazz.
>>
>>Happy Holidays,
>>Douglas Calvin
>>
>>
>>
>
 From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:31 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 12:16:03 PST From: "Aaron Roth" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Stopping Mail Without Unsubscribing Message-ID: <19991214201603.76608.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Because ACK!!!! Is what you'll exclaim in dismay next time you check your email and suddenly have 67 new messages in the box. ;) -Aaron Roth >OK, SET TROMBONE-L MAIL POSTPONE makes sense, but what the hell does the >"ACK" in "SET TROMBONE-L MAIL ACK" mean? Is it "b"ack? :) <--------- >look, I'm smilin', that means this is a light hearted post and should not >be taken offensively. > >Mike | /| | _ / | | ___________________/---/ | | / | | / __________________ | | / / _||_ || \---\_ | || / /Trom\ || \ | | \ \ \bone/ || \| | \ \__||______||______________________________________ | \___________________________________________________ \ | | | | | ___ \ \ | |ø---- __|_|____|_|_________________________\_/ / | | }_____________________________________<>_/ | |_---- Pet Peeves: ATM Machine = automated teller machine machine PIN Number = personal identification number number Rio Grande River = Big River River (Mail suggestions to: ) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:31 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 12:33:31 PST From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: the music thread Message-ID: <19991214203331.68793.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Come on music snobs, get out of the closets and get into the mix. YEA, I'M A MUSIC SNOB! WHAT OF IT. Lately I've been listening to Paco d'Rivera. Now I know it's beneath me. After all, commoners in Cuba and parts of Florida ACTUALLY LIKE Paco's music. And they don't know squat about music. But hey, I'm into slumming. Maybe I'm even checking out what it might be like to be in a music snob recovery program·NAA! As for all that lowly $#!+ that y'all listen to, all I can say is different strokes. So go ahead and flame me, but let he/she who has no musical training, none, cast the first flame. DanP And merry Christmas, by the way. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:31 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 15:36:45 EST From: Andrewsjon@aol.com To: sabutin@mindspring.com, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: origins of rap Message-ID: <0.f9b5f3b6.2588045d@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/14/99 2:03:55 PM Central Standard Time, sabutin@mindspring.com writes: << Well, I have no sources or articles which I can easily access to support what I'm going to say, nor do I have the time to research them, but as usual, I'm gonna give it a try anyway... >> Sam, Thanks for chiming in. What I know is this: Rap can be traced back to Western Africa. The Griots (the tribesmen who would pass along information) were probably the first rappers. The Griots would pass along information in a poetic/rythemic verse style often accompanied by tribes musicians. Current rap is pretty much essentially the same. That is: a poetic/rythemic verse passing along information from the community. Often, the message is laced with political and social commentary. Jon From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:31 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 21:45:07 +0100 From: d.huettenbach@ndh.com (Detlef Huettenbach) To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu ("Trombones and related issues forum") Subject: Re: trombone-tennis elbow (REALLY longwinded) Message-ID: <1e2s20h.4fhq8t1cl01fkM@port145.bonn.ndh.net> > gotta go practice, er, maybe lift some weights. > Nah. > First a Guinness. Oops, wrong thread. > tim richardson How right you are! Setlef. From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:31 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 12:46:03 PST From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Lest we forget. Message-ID: <19991214204603.48627.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >Hey! Anybody else notice favoritism here? Elitism? I see no >mention of JAZZ nor the fact that Kenny G doesn't play one! This is old but it was worth saving. Review of a Kenny G concert from The Other Paper, Columbus, Ohio, by John Petric. "Getting Down With The Milquetoast Maestro" by John Petric A whole lotta people paid a whole lotta money to witness a whole lotta meaningless breathing exercises done through a musical snorkel Saturday night at the Columbus Convention Center. Kenny G - the mayor of mayonnaise music, the milquetoast maestro, the woodwind weasel - played his saxophone to roughly 5000 people at $25 per head. That adds up to a $150,000 gross and boy, gross it was. G is the latest and most successful instrumentalist with a slight jazz pedigree to hit the big time. However, in G's case, it's with an authenticity so questionable he may as well document it with a fancy diploma from some phony offshore jazz school in the middle of the Caribbean. Even Zamfir comes with better jazz credentials. Ornamental romantic themes ruled the night's jazz lite hell. Goopy, chimey electric piano usually introduced his tunes, G's wimpy soprano sax then laid down a melody fit for a lovesick poodle on Prozac. If Holiday Inn motel art could come to musical life, it would sound like G's "Forever in Love" or "Sister Rose" or "Sentimental," all horrible crap from "Breathless," his bezillion-selling album on Arista. The Thin White Duke of Puke's solos were the color of air. His improvisations improved none at all as the long night dragged on. His chops consisted almost entirely of pyrotechnic finger exercises and obnoxious minutes-long sustains that had the crowd whooping and hollering. Sadly though, the long-winded G has all the fiery jazz imagination of, say, Richard Clayderman, the French dude. (He's French, for crissakes, need I say more?) After the G-weasel committed atrocity after atrocity in the name of jazz, pulling tunes off his seven-album catalog, the question remained. Why is this weenie doing so well? Opener Peabo Bryson joined G for a song in the middle of the headliner's set. It was the best part of the show. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:31 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 12:48:07 PST From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Long Tone Practice Message-ID: <19991214204807.70547.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >How does everyone practice long tones? I'm just curious what methods are >being used, and want to try some others. I practice mine very quickly... DanP ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:31 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 12:51:49 PST From: "Aaron Roth" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: the music thread - Rap Message-ID: <19991214205149.82737.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hey, I'm still a youngster, and I listen to some rap. Maybe my viewpoint from the inside will help a little.... When today's parents rail against the latest popular music style, they tend not to think of the flappers and the hippies and other genres of music/culture fans throughout the 1900's. Maybe it's their job not to remember that many of them were at the edge of music trends in their youth. It's true, the music at the forefront of any movement will offend the sensibilities of non-fans; after all, how many classical music fans went on a rampage when The Rite Of Spring, with its giant orchestra pounding out immense chords of stacked fifths and with its use of motivic cells rather than continuous melody, was premiered in 1913? Or when Henry Cowell began presenting recitals where he produced massive tone clusters and plucked the strings inside a piano? Or when John Cage went onstage on that fateful day with a stack of his mail under his arm with every intention of opening it and expanding the minds of his listeners? Now, we are reacting against the arguably antisocial messages presented in gangsta rap and in the product of post-industrial electronic groups like 9 Inch Nails and Marilyn Manson. Youth, ever the driving force behind liberalism, will always listen to these groups with abandon; think: Woodstock. As Chris said, it's not the pop artist's job to raise a child, it's the parent's job. The music will be there as long as the government does not stamp it out, just as pornography is readily available anywhere on the internet and at many magazine stands. Just as children are going to look at those magazines, they are going to listen to that music. However, a child seems generally to do better when a parent warns the child that listening too hard to the messages in the lyrics to a song will get the child in trouble than when the parent is not home to spend time with the child. Maybe the modern quick-fix ideal of contemporary society is deranging the parents into believing they don't have time to spend teaching kids the essential moral values. But many of my friends took to heart the example of Tupac, gunned down because of issues with gang rivals; there's a real-life warning of the consequences of wanting to live the gangsta life that should be held high for the world to see. The intent of rap music as I see it is to present a view of a world to the listener other than the one in which the listener lives. Indeed, I find myself looking into another plane of existence whenever I listen to The Rite of Spring, too; perhaps the rhythmic complexity simply draws the rapt listener in. That world is generally dark and full of a pervasively base energy, rather akin to the life of a gangster sleeping with one eye open and one hand on a 9 mm., always on the lookout for police or gang rivals. Yes, the rhythm is repetitive, but so is a 12-bar blues. The flow of the lyrics lies parallel to the improvised melody issuing from a trombone bell. I don't believe the style is what bothers so many parents; otherwise, heavy metal wouldn't also be targeted. It's the content. Some of my friends here at Valdosta (who have heard very little rap before other than in passing cars) didn't even recognize some Gospel Rap, Old-Skool Rap, or even Christmas Rap AS rap because they heard NO obscenities being tossed out on the backbeat. Whether it's "Back that a$$ up" or "Let's get a G, O, D", rap is rap; it's a musical style, distinctively unto itself. So how did I listen to rap without becoming a gang member? I never listened to the words as advice for me; I listened to them as a description of the world of the rapper...a blues, if you will. I enjoy rhythmically driving music of all types; my present compositional vein deals mainly with rhythmic motivic structure, and on top of shifting meters and artificial groupings I'm incorporating patterns from high-step marching band drum cadences into a set of pieces for 8-part percussion. My example of the day, The Rite of Spring, is to this day my favorite piece of classical-vein music for its rhythmic complexity. I listen to rap mostly for the rhythmic patterns; the content of the actual rap is, to me, secondary. Maybe if children were taught to view music as an expressive medium and not as a persuasive essay.... I think that quick-fix Snickers bar is poisoning my mind with sugar; it's time to go take a walk. -Aaron Roth | /| | _ / | | ___________________/---/ | | / | | / __________________ | | / / _||_ || \---\_ | || / /Min-\ || \ | | \ \ \-ick/ || \| | \ \__||______||______________________________________ | \___________________________________________________ \ | | | | | ___ \ \ | |ø---- __|_|____|_|_________________________\_/ / | | }_____________________________________<>_/ | |_---- Pet Peeves: ATM Machine = automated teller machine machine PIN Number = personal identification number number Rio Grande River = Big River River (Mail suggestions to: ) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:31 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 14:56:51 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: origins of rap Message-ID: <199912142059.OAA29644@ties.k12.mn.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; types="text/plain,text/html"; boundary="=====================_21067255==_.ALT" If you want to stretch the bounds of reality to encompass an idea you find appealing, it is easy to do.  Why don't we just say that all music can be traced back to  the first days of homo sapiens when Og hit Trog on the head with a rock and Trog issued forth a resounding UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH and Og thought it mellifluous and euphonious.  Oh baby, welcome to the birth of music!

One must be very careful when attempting to trace the roots of any idea in history.  Often there are phenomena which appear quite similar from disparate cultures and epochs with no proximity. And, occasionally those similarities, and this is even more tricky, come from phenomena which ARE very close in culture and proximity. One must not assume that one is the out growth of the other based on seeming similarity, however.  Only exhaustive research can, sometimes, determine such things.  So far in this discussion I have seen nothing that would pass for good, academically solid research.

Terry Gross, interviewer on "Fresh Air" on NPR did a wonderful interview with a rap artist a few years ago (his name alludes me at the moment) and he had a very definite idea as to the roots of Rap - as he actually does this stuff and is a product of its culture his opinion is worth listening to.

Go to http://whyy.org/cgi-bin/FAsearcher.cgi?search_string=rap  and see what you can find - if nothing else it'll keep you busy.

MPC

At 03:36 PM 12/14/99 -0500, you wrote:
>In a message dated 12/14/99 2:03:55 PM Central Standard Time,
>sabutin@mindspring.com writes:
>
><<    Well, I have no sources or articles which I can easily access to support
> what I'm going to say, nor do I have the time to research them, but as
> usual, I'm gonna give it a try anyway... >>
>
>Sam,
>
>Thanks for chiming in.
>
>What I know is this: Rap can be traced back to Western Africa. The Griots
>(the tribesmen who would pass along information) were probably the first
>rappers. The Griots would pass along information in a poetic/rythemic verse
>style often accompanied by tribes musicians.
>
>Current rap is pretty much essentially the same. That is: a poetic/rythemic
>verse passing along information from the community. Often, the message is
>laced with political and social commentary.
>
>Jon
>
From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:31 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:09:51 PST From: "Aaron Roth" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Long Tone Practice Message-ID: <19991214210951.14099.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >>How does everyone practice long tones? I'm just curious what methods are >>being used, and want to try some others. > >I practice mine very quickly... > >DanP If anyone has 72 minutes of uninterrupted playing time to devote to long tones, feel free to try Walter White's Long Tone Accompaniments. Concert Bb with a new-age background.... Unfortunately, it's anything but quick. -Aaron R. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:31 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 16:07:00 EST From: Neobopr@aol.com To: grega@houseofportraits.com, jenny@koan.com, Jhkibbler@aol.com, lmwilson@stanford.edu, Mountainman85@aol.com, omar_k@geocities.com, Subject: Happy Holidays Message-ID: <0.62505d02.25880b74@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everyone! Just a quick note to convey our best wishes for this Holiday Season. I'll be sending out an update about the whole family after the New Year when things have slowed down and I'll have the time. Be safe and smart! Jeff and Cheryl Yamaha Artist/Clinician-Jeff Adams "Jesus is the Reason for the Season!" From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:31 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 15:27:52 -0600 From: "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Teaching Small Ensemble Roles Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > the director has now asked us to discuss the way the group is organized, > how we work together, how we over come problems and build teamwork. He is > hoping the students will learn how to work together more efficiently and > achieve a better performance in this way. We will do this in January 00. > > Since the quintet informally "wings" its way through these issues, can > you > recommend a reference that would get me a started on how to teach ensemble > dynamics? > Richard, My immediate thought is that your group has worked through these issues without deliberately planning to work through them. Therefore, you do not recognize your processes. Maybe you could step back and talk about them among yourselves so that you can articulate how a collection of individuals has become a group--how you cooperate with each other instead of competing with each other. This is an important skill not limited to musical groups. Whatever you know from other group settings will have transfer value. "Building teamwork" is a core skill that musicians may be in a more advantageous position than most to learn, but it does not come naturally! ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ David Guion, Cataloger John Marshall Law School 315 S. Plymouth Ct. Chicago, IL 60604 Voice: (312) 427-2737 x 552 Fax; (312) 427-8307 "Outside of a dog, books are a man's best friend; inside of a dog, it's too dark to read"--Groucho Marx ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:31 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 15:44:16 -0600 From: "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: the music thread - Rap Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Aaron Roth wrote: > Now, we are reacting against the arguably antisocial messages > presented > in gangsta rap and in the product of post-industrial electronic groups > like > 9 Inch Nails and Marilyn Manson. Youth, ever the driving force behind > liberalism, will always listen to these groups with abandon; think: > Woodstock. As Chris said, it's not the pop artist's job to raise a child, > > it's the parent's job. The music will be there as long as the government > does not stamp it out, just as pornography is readily available anywhere > on > the internet and at many magazine stands. Just as children are going to > look at those magazines, they are going to listen to that music. However, > a > child seems generally to do better when a parent warns the child that > listening too hard to the messages in the lyrics to a song will get the > child in trouble than when the parent is not home to spend time with the > child. > And of course, it's nothing new. As far back as Plato, the elders of society have been bemoaning what the youngsters are interested in. > When today's parents rail against the latest popular music style, they > tend not to think of the flappers and the hippies and other genres of > music/culture fans throughout the 1900's. Maybe it's their job not to > remember that many of them were at the edge of music trends in their > youth. > Or maybe they do remember. I've seen I don't know how many compilations of quotations from centuries of viewing with alarm. The viewpoint of the editors has generally been, "See? Nothing awful happened. Ignore the old fogeys and eventually they will die". But what if the fogeys looked back at their youthful antics with great embarassment and the realization that the world would be a better place if they had just listened to their parents? In the war of generations, it's too simplistic to say that one generation in invariably correct, but the youth have always had the best press. Oh well, here's another recurring controversy that will never be resolved. ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ David Guion, Cataloger John Marshall Law School 315 S. Plymouth Ct. Chicago, IL 60604 Voice: (312) 427-2737 x 552 Fax; (312) 427-8307 "Outside of a dog, books are a man's best friend; inside of a dog, it's too dark to read"--Groucho Marx ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:31 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 16:52:20 EST From: Cwtbone@aol.com To: TROMBONE-L@lists.missouri.edu Cc: Cwtbone@aol.com Subject: bassoon Message-ID: <0.cd388820.25881614@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry to be off topic, but I need some help. I went on my usual pawn shop search this afternoon and ran across a couple of instruments that you rarely see in a shop. One is an old silverplated Conn "naked lady" bari sax. It has lots of wear but the pads and mechanics look to be in good shape. I can get the bari for $850. The other is a Schreiber bassoon in almost new condition that I can get for $1200. I would plan to resell these instruments since the bass trombone is more than enough to work on. Would these be good buys? Charlie Waite From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:31 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 17:17:43 EST From: BassBonist@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Teaching Small Ensemble Roles Message-ID: <0.bab16ab6.25881c07@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard Marple writes: << the director has now asked us to discuss the way the group is organized, how we work together, how we over come problems and build teamwork. He is hoping the students will learn how to work together more efficiently and achieve a better performance in this way. >> David Guion responded in part: << Maybe you could step back and talk about them among yourselves so that you can articulate how a collection of individuals has become a group--how you cooperate with each other instead of competing with each other.>> <> These comments remind me of what Jeff Reynolds has said repeatedly in his master classes (non sponsored, btw) about ensemble playing, namely that there are three types of musicians: LEADERS FOLLOWERS (Reactors) PARTICIPATORS (The following comments elaborating on the three categories are my own.) Leaders try to "push" and "pull" tempos, dynamics, over-exaggerate style and articulations to the tune of "HEY! Do it THIS way!" Followers sit back and "react" to the music that everyone is playing, but are never really fully "in" the performance/rehearsal. Participators are the ones who understand how they fit into the overall scheme of the musical fabric and give and take within the context of the music being played. In the spotlight when they should be, in the middleground or background when they ought. Participators are great listeners. The last group would be more "Ego-less" type of player, person, team member, committee member, or any group. Participators bring their particular talents to the activity but don't try to crowd out the attributes of the others, or just hide like wallflowers, hoping they aren't expected to participate too much. Great music making happens when everyone is an involved participant in the performance. Matt Varho Signing off until next year! From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:31 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 17:19:13 -0500 From: "Ian Cooper" To: Subject: O Holy Night Message-ID: <009501bf4681$41af5b80$5924cdd1@cooperfh> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can someone please tell me where I might be able to obtain an arrangemement of "O Holy Night" for trombone with Piano accompaniment. Obviously certain time constraints would apply. I am in the Southern Ontario, Canada (Hamilton)area. Thank you for your help. Ian Cooper cooperfh@nornet.on.ca From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:31 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 17:19:58 -0500 From: "Bennett, Gordon (Contractor)" To: "'TBone List'" Subject: RE: the music thread Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I'm posting a portion of a message I just received from the BANDCHAT e-mail list. Do you think they know what they're in for? >This has been festering in the back of my little pea brain for >months now and was further confused by a discussion group at the >WASBE conference this past summer. How does one determine >what pieces are "quality" works? It seems to me obvious, for the >most part, what music is absolute crap, but not so obvious what >music will stand the test of time as a great piece of music. Incoming! Gordon Bennett Harris Air Traffic Control Communications "It's been my observation that 90% of statisticians pretty much ruin it for the other 30%." - Keith Sullivan From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:31 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 16:21:55 -0600 From: Angie Brunk To: daniel_pliskin@hotmail.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Lest we forget. Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:46 PM -0800 12/14/99, Daniel Pliskin wrote: the woodwind weasel - played After the >G-weasel committed atrocity after atrocity in the name of jazz, Was it really necessary to insult Weasil, my beloved ferret (aka Carpet Shark or Sofa Snake) by linking her name with Kenny G.?! Since ferrets are relatives of the weasel this really insults all of them. Even my anemic albino carpet shark has better taste in music than Kenny G. She sniffs apreciatevily at my trombone case when she walks by it. :-) Angie Brunk-The Blonde Soprano and Terror of Culley's Corner 'An it harm none do as ye will. "Well behaved women rarely make history"-Laurel Thacker Ulrich "I'd rather be his whore than your wife" just doesn't have the same sting as "I'd rather kiss a Wookee." From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:31 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 17:45:04 EST From: BassBonist@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: For Sale Two Bass Trombones Message-ID: <0.cb3b2fc4.25882270@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Single valve Conn 110H with 10" red brass bell. Near mint condition $1000 US. Single valve Bach 50BO w/ 9.5" bell. Less than one year old. $1445 US. Firm Please email me for more info or for my home number if you know someone off the list who's looking for one of these. Thanks. Matt Varho bass trombonist Aliso Viejo Symphony Slyde Rowe Trombone Quartet From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:31 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:39:56 -0500 From: David Buckley To: sabutin@mindspring.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Michael Davis Quintet+electronics Message-ID: <385656BC.702622F9@sympatico.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Since I started this thing, I guess I should reply. sabutin@mindspring.com wrote: > Lots of back and forth here about sound reinforcement. > > Almost nothing about trombone playing. > > 1-These two guys (Michael Davis and Bill reichenbach) can both flat out > PLAY. Absolutely without question. I just would like to be able to have heard them both. > > > 2-So can the rhythm section w/which they recorded; I'll bet their rhythm > sections in concert could too. Sure they could play but the drummer was not amplified and still way too loud. > > > 3-They've both decided not to FORCE the trombone, but rather to play > fairly quietly (notice I did NOT say "weakly") in order to get around their > respective horns in the manner they wish as improvisers. Didn't suggest they were weak. > > > 4-BEING trombonists, it's five TIMES as hard for them to make money as > soloists than equally gifted tenor players or what have you, and the fact > that they managed to make a good, creative CD and get booked at ALL is a > testament to both their abilities as players and Michael's ability, > particularly, to do the things that have to be done to take care of > extra-musical business. > > 5-Given the money trombone/thing plus the fairly quiet playing thing and > adding TO that the fact that the trombone is an absolute BEAR to amplify > well and they were using an amplified rhythm section (a perfectly valid > stylistic choice...and Pattitucci !!!)...of COURSE they had sound problems. Part of playing in public and asking people to pay to hear is the necessity of seeing that the audience can actually hear. When I'm in the audience I should not have to be concerned about audio problems. Maybe we should just buy the CD and forget about going to live concerts? I don't think so. > > > DUH !!! > > Don't complain about it...try to UNDERSTAND a little, por favor... > > Gracias... > > Senor Sabutin > > P.S. If, as more than a few posts suggested, they were to choose to play > completely acoustically...one even suggested they LEARN to play > acoustically, as if they couldn't My suggestion was that jazz drummers should learn to play acoustically. Having heard Michael and Bill in the aftenoon it was obvious that they knew how. I'm still not sure that volume markings are ever written on percussion parts. > (I'D LOVE to hear THAT poster in a > similar situation...)...how do you think that would have limited their > potential choice of venues? The only way for a jazz group to really make > any money touring is on the festival circuit, playing for 5000 people in a > Roman amphitheater or some other such ridiculous situation...what chance > would two unmiked trombones and an unamplified rhythm section have in THAT > kind of venue? Not comparing the venue in Toronto with an outdoor gig. Of course they are different. > > > I personally prefer to play as unamplified as possible, and have > tailored my playing to some degree in that direction...but DAMN, what do > these guys have to do to avoid the flak ??? > > At least they're OUT there PLAYING... True. Merry Christmas. Maybe their CD wille under my tree. Dave Buckley. From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:31 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 17:54:33 -0600 From: paulel9@bellsouth.net To: cooperfh@nornet.on.ca, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: O Holy Night Message-ID: <3856D8B9.9E98993C@bellsouth.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ian Cooper wrote: > > Can someone please tell me where I might be able to obtain an arrangemement > of "O Holy Night" for trombone with Piano accompaniment. Obviously certain > time constraints would apply. I am in the Southern Ontario, Canada > (Hamilton)area. > Thank you for your help. Yes, indeed, I just bought it last week. Any music store should have (or be able to get overnight): Canadian Brass Christmas Solos for Trombone and Piano Recorded by Eugene Watts of the Canadian Brass Hal Leonard HL50482489 The package contains all of the sheet music and the companion CD which has the complete performance by Watts as well as the piano accompaniment only. In the event you cannot find a free accompanist, all you need to bring is your horn, the CD, and a CD player! Included are "Angels We Have Heard On High", "The First Noel", "Gesu Bambino", "God Rest Ye Merry, Gentlemen", "I Saw Three Ships", "It Came Upon the Midnight Clear", "Lo, How a Rose E'er Blooming", "O Holy Night", "Once in Royal David's City", and "Silent Night". In the future, I suggest that you search the many online music catalogs. Merry Christmas. -- E. PAUL LUKAS TROMBONIST, PUBLICIST BARTLETT COMMUNITY CONCERT BAND MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE USA PAULEL9@BELLSOUTH.NET From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:31 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:32:17 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: the music thread Message-ID: <199912150032.SAA29166@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" OH my gawd! We really should intervene on their behalf, Gordon - the poor things. Mike At 04:19 PM 12/14/99 , you wrote: >I'm posting a portion of a message I just received from the BANDCHAT e-mail >list. Do you think they know what they're in for? > >>This has been festering in the back of my little pea brain for >>months now and was further confused by a discussion group at the >>WASBE conference this past summer. How does one determine >>what pieces are "quality" works? It seems to me obvious, for the >>most part, what music is absolute crap, but not so obvious what >>music will stand the test of time as a great piece of music. > >Incoming! > > >Gordon Bennett >Harris Air Traffic Control Communications > >"It's been my observation that 90% of statisticians pretty much ruin it for >the other 30%." - Keith Sullivan > From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:31 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 16:06:09 -0800 From: "Jim O'Briant" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Stopping Mail Without Unsubscribing Message-ID: <01BF4652.A6AD48A0.jobriant@garlic.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike Coyle wrote: >>>>> OK, SET TROMBONE-L MAIL POSTPONE makes sense, but what the hell does the "ACK" in "SET TROMBONE-L MAIL ACK" mean? Is it "b"ack? <<<<< First of all, we could do without the profanity. Second of all, it is short for "Acknowledgement" -- meaning that if you set your subscription this way you will receive copies of your own message to the list. The alternative is NOACK, for "No Acknowledgement." Jim O'Briant Gilroy, CA From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:31 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:58:01 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Stopping Mail Without Unsubscribing Message-ID: <199912150058.SAA30705@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" That phrase is so colloquial and mainstream it never occurred to me to be profanity. I apologize to any and all who were offended and hope that it does not create a list "issue". Sincerely At 06:06 PM 12/14/99 , you wrote: >Mike Coyle wrote: > >>>>>> OK, SET TROMBONE-L MAIL POSTPONE makes sense, but what the hell does >the "ACK" in "SET TROMBONE-L MAIL ACK" mean? Is it "b"ack? <<<<< > >First of all, we could do without the profanity. From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:31 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:06:40 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Stopping Mail Without Unsubscribing Message-ID: <199912150106.TAA31197@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:58 PM 12/14/99 , you wrote: >That phrase is so colloquial and mainstream it never occurred to me to be >profanity. I apologize to any and all who were offended and hope that it >does not create a list "issue". > I just had a thought that perhaps I should use the line " I apologize to any and all who were offended and hope that it does not create a list "issue" as my signature on this list :) Not a day goes by anymore that someone isn't personally put off something. MPC From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:31 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:36:18 -0500 From: "John Lavoie" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: ITA Webmaster, Marta Horface Message-ID: <781663C1AC0B3D11DAEC00807CFDCB9C@webmaster.Trombonegod.zzn.com> Content-Type: text/html Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I renewed my ITA mebership online a couple weeks ago, and I didn't
recieve any confirmation from them.  I NEED to make sure that I'm a
member.  I just looked at the ITA site, www.ita-web.org and the
webmaster/mistress, Marta Horface's email address was conspicuously
absent from all of the pages I saw.  Someone just posted her address
that I fowarded to a friend.  Can you post it again?  

Thanks,
JOhn







John Lavoie
Sophomore, Ithaca College
http://members.tripod.com/Trombone8vb


Like this address? Get one at http://members.tripod.com/Trombone8vb ____
Get up to $200 towards airline tix: www.priceline.com/promo/zzn1 - Free!

From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:31 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:43:15 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: group apology Message-ID: <199912150143.TAA01151@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" hey you guys and girls, Someone just wrote to me saying, among other things, that "judging from the numbers of your E-mails I assume you just want to see your name in lights". It wasn't a totally trashy email but was rather harsh but really made me think. I am sharing this because I do not like feeling as if I have made a nuisance of myself while just trying to have a good time. I have had a lot of free time recently and there are reasons why communicating via the computer are a good option for me and I guess I may have gotten a bit carried away. I'm really sorry about this and will try to "play by the rules" or have the courtesy to take a hike :) It is amazing to me that we get such weird views of each other via this medium. I know that some of the people here who I think are humorless and ridig are probably far different in real life. Similarly, I am not viewed by my peers as and "annoying gas bag" I think writing is a very vivid and lively kind of communicating and I love doing it. I think I have seen each assertion (i,e, each new email) as a new assertion in an on-going conversation. I can easily see the point that it is just annoying and can make someone seem like a 'know-it-all" loser. Sorry folks, M From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:31 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:43:41 -0600 From: Chad Horsley Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: ITA Webmaster, Marta Horface Message-ID: <3856F24D.105B231C@mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------F27092043E35F4493D03F5C5" I am also curious about this..................I also am not sure if my renewal went through.

John Lavoie wrote:

 I renewed my ITA mebership online a couple weeks ago, and I didn't
recieve any confirmation from them.  I NEED to make sure that I'm a
member.  I just looked at the ITA site, www.ita-web.org and the
webmaster/mistress, Marta Horface's email address was conspicuously
absent from all of the pages I saw.  Someone just posted her address
that I fowarded to a friend.  Can you post it again?

Thanks,
JOhn
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

John Lavoie
Sophomore, Ithaca College
http://members.tripod.com/Trombone8vb
 

Like this address? Get one at http://members.tripod.com/Trombone8vb ____
Get up to $200 towards airline tix: www.priceline.com/promo/zzn1 - Free!

--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
   ____/                Chad Horsley
  (____\____        Email: tbneplyer@mindspring.com
       o||_____)    AOL Instant Messenger: Tbneplyer
                       ICQ:   33170757
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
  From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:31 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 21:37:24 -0500 From: Feneley To: TBone List Subject: Re:Stopping Mail Without Unsubscribing Message-ID: <3856FEE4.C881F53C@glccomputers.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------690FD211A065C5EAF6E3C69C" Mike Coyle wrote as a response to having brief post called profane:
  

That phrase is so colloquial and mainstream it never occurred to me to be
profanity.  I apologize to any and all who were offended and hope that it
does not create a list "issue".

Sincerely
I'll sign my name to this too, Mike. For crying out loud!  Give me a break.

Ken Feneley
  From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:31 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:41:30 -0700 From: Earl Needham To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: the music thread Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19991214194130.042bc4c0@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 05:19 PM 12/14/99 -0500, Bennett, Gordon (Contractor) wrote: >I'm posting a portion of a message I just received from the BANDCHAT e-mail >list. Do you think they know what they're in for? > >>This has been festering in the back of my little pea brain for >>months now and was further confused by a discussion group at the >>WASBE conference this past summer. How does one determine >>what pieces are "quality" works? It seems to me obvious, for the >>most part, what music is absolute crap, but not so obvious what >>music will stand the test of time as a great piece of music. > >Incoming! That's NOTHING! Look what just came through the JJ Johnson list! At 01:44 PM 12/14/99 -0600, Rob sent: >Hey all, >I know this doesn't really have much to do with jazz trombone but oh well... > >My youth orchestra is going to Europe this summer and I was curious what you >guys/gals do when you fly--are you allowed to bring your horn in the cabin >with you if it is in a gig bag or do you have to check it no matter what? I >know my friend brought his tenor sax on a flight and got the flight >attendant to put it at the front of the plane somewhere. We were flying to >LA (not the orchestra, this was a big band if you were wondering about the >tenor sax) and I checked my horn, but I felt really nervous for obvious >reasons... I'm sure London and Amsterdam could be just as fun!) > >What do you guys think? > >Rob From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:31 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 21:55:59 -0500 From: Feneley To: TBone List Subject: Re: group apology Message-ID: <3857033F.72C6D9BD@glccomputers.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------7056A90F6E33780888964010" Mike Coyle has written three apologies. This is the latest:
  

hey you guys and girls,

Someone just wrote to me saying, among other things, that "judging from the
numbers of your E-mails I assume you just want to see your name in lights".
 It wasn't a totally trashy email but was rather harsh but really made me
think.  I am sharing this because I do not like feeling as if I have made a
nuisance of myself while just trying to have a good time.  I have had a lot
of free time recently and there are reasons why communicating via the
computer are a good option for me and I guess I may have gotten a bit
carried away.

I'm really sorry about this and will try to "play by the rules" or have the
courtesy to take a hike  :)   It is amazing to me that we get such weird
views of each other via this medium. I know that some of the people here
who I think are humorless and ridig are probably far different in real
life.  Similarly, I am not viewed by my peers as and "annoying gas bag"  I
think writing is a very vivid and lively kind of communicating and I love
doing it.  I think I have seen each assertion (i,e, each new email) as a
new assertion in an on-going conversation.  I can easily see the point that
it is just annoying and can make someone seem like a 'know-it-all" loser.

Sorry folks,

M
I joined this list about 2 years ago. First, I got into a real set-too with Wayne Dyess over Marching Band. He and I have since become the very best of friends. However, during the early period I was also privately and publicly (on the list) chastised for making a comment about beautiful grandchildren in a message that otherwise pertained to trombones. I took offense to that/those do-gooder/s who take up the responsibility of being 'internet policemen.' Apparently, here it goes again only on another person.

I am once again offended.

There is, frankly, not enough of interest to me when put in the light of the, IMHO, penny-anty, rinky-dink responses like the one Mike has tried to satisfy through apologies, to keep me on this list.

There are enough friends just in the general domain to satisfy the e-mail needs of this abode.

For my part, Mike, just say "nuts" to the whole thing.

See ya,

Ken Feneley
  From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:31 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 21:03:22 -0600 From: "Kenneth Dowdy" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re:Stopping Mail Without Unsubscribing Message-ID: <00ce01bf46a8$f687acc0$09180f3f@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00C9_01BF4676.A8320980"

Ken, Mike,
 
Some people will get indignant about everything.  I guess its just their way of saying "I'm better than you!"  Language is a lot like music, one man's poetry is another man's profanity.  Put my name on the bottom of your disclaimer, too.  Compared to what I hear in the powerplant every day, Mike's post went completely over my head.  And Mike, don't worry too much about some of the mail you have been getting.  I used to be on a "religious" list server, and believe me, the Trombone-L is the epitome of kindness compared to that list.  I have yet to be flamed anywhere was viciously as I was by those "kind, loving" individuals.  That is why when I hear from the self-appointed "net-nannies", I just push the big black X and away it goes.  To bad they don't make one of those for nagging "significant others" :-)
 
The other Ken,
 
Ken Dowdy
-----Original Message-----
From: Feneley <jfeneley@glccomputers.com>
To: Trombones and related issues forum. <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Date: Tuesday, December 14, 1999 8:40 PM
Subject: Re:Stopping Mail Without Unsubscribing

Mike Coyle wrote as a response to having brief post called profane:
  
That phrase is so colloquial and mainstream it never occurred to me to be
profanity.  I apologize to any and all who were offended and hope that it
does not create a list "issue".

Sincerely
I'll sign my name to this too, Mike. For crying out loud!  Give me a break.

Ken Feneley
 

From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:31 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 21:28:06 -0600 From: Listmonitor Trombone-L To: Trombone-L Subject: FROM THE LIST MONITOR Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Eric Nicklas recruited me to monitor the list and keep it pretty much on "trombone and related issues." I had several people ask about the Rap Music thread, and although it did not directly pertain to trombone, it was running its course and has now pretty much died. If you have a concern about a list member's postings, contact me. If you disagree with someone, handle it with dignity and as an adult. The trombone-l has always been a wide open list, and with only a few notable instances, a self-policing unmoderated list. If you don't like a thread, use the delete key. If you don't like someone's postings, again, use the delete key. If you know you don't want to read someone's postings, use the delete key. Please do not take it upon yourselves to censor the list. My e-mail is constantly monitored, and any serious problems with be immediately handled with minimal fuss. Let us stop this bickering about improper language, excessive postings, and rap music and bring the list back to "trombones and related issues." LM From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:32 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 22:20:03 -0500 From: "Stewart M. Crane" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Stopping Mail Without Unsubscribing Message-ID: <020501bf46ad$6b035410$0101a8c6@stewart> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All of these are brought to you by the Department of Redundancy Department. > Pet Peeves: > ATM Machine = automated teller machine machine > PIN Number = personal identification number number > Rio Grande River = Big River River > (Mail suggestions to: ) > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:32 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 22:33:35 -0500 From: "wayne e. collins" To: "t-bone" Subject: Re: Lest we forget. Message-ID: <015c01bf46ad$2b92f100$52ac2ad1@johnny> ----- Original Message ----- From: Wayne Dyess To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 1999 7:08 AM Subject: Lest we forget. >>...It originated about 1400 as an improvement to the trumpet... << Has anybody considered waving this flag at the guys on trumpet-l? :) Talk about takin' outta context! :) just funnin' w From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:32 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 22:31:19 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: O Holy Night Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 5:19 PM -0500 12/14/99, Ian Cooper wrote: >Can someone please tell me where I might be able to obtain an arrangemement >of "O Holy Night" for trombone with Piano accompaniment. Obviously certain >time constraints would apply. I am in the Southern Ontario, Canada >(Hamilton)area. The Canadian Brass edition will do the job, but if you're in a jam, the easiest thing to find will be the vocal version published by G. Schirmer, probably available at any "mom and pop" music store around the corner, available in 4 keys - I prefer B flat (the "high" note is only an f above the staff). Details: Cantique de Noel (O Holy Night!) by Adolphe Adamfor voice and piano (high/E flat, medium high/D flat, medium low/C, low/B flat G. Schirmer catalog 36860 ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:32 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 22:44:17 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Now that everybody is mad at someone... Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I enjoy this list and have benefited from it immensely. It seems that the pot is well stirred and plenty of folk are upset at this or that issue, person, thing, thread, etc, so I'd like to wish you all a very merry Christmas or, if you don't celebrate Christmas, then a nice extra day off and if you don't get next Friday off, then I hope something nice happens to you in the next few days. Life at home and work is heating up so it's time for me to unsubscribe as I always do this time of year. I'll still be online but spending much less time at the computer. Gonna spend some time with Indian Ragas, playing serpent, reading my new book on Bach, PRACTICING TROMBONE and enjoying our family being together for the rest of this month. See you all in January, and thanks for another year of learning and sharing. Everybody, take a deep breath...In...1, 2, 3...Out...1, 2, 3. I feel better already. "Peace on earth, good will toward men" (women, too, and especially trombone players.... seems like we need an extra dose of good will these days). For some holiday cheer and some fun, tune into the Boston Pops TV show which will appear on the A&E cable network over the next few days, I believe December 18 and 24. We'll be taping a new show this Thursday (for broadcast next year) with Take 6, my favorite singing group (they don't even do Bach...). All the best, and HAPPY new year. Keep looking up... -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:32 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 22:40:02 -0600 From: "Tom Izzo" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Stopping Mail Without Unsubscribing Message-ID: <014001bf46b6$7402dc80$2c75dfd0@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Stewart, ----- Original Message ----- From: Stewart M. Crane > All of these are brought to you by the Department of Redundancy Department. > > > Pet Peeves: > > ATM Machine = automated teller machine machine > > PIN Number = personal identification number number > > Rio Grande River = Big River River Yes, & don't forget the ever popular: VCR Recorders=(Video Cassette Recorder Recorders) (advertised on Chicago radio like this) Tom > > (Mail suggestions to: ) > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 07:28:32 1999 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:44:41 -0800 From: Larry White To: basstbn@waageworks.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Galen Zinn's Practice Chart Message-ID: <38571CB9.C6600227@telus.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris, Just downloaded it with my Netzip file. Worked perfectly and it looks really good. Thanks very much, Larry White Chris Waage wrote: > I finally pulled it from the back burner.... > > Galen Zinn had asked me if I could convert his practice chart graphic into > an editable file. I have created it using Microsoft Excel '98. I used a > default font of Arial, which is a cross-platform font from Microsoft. PC > or Mac should interpret it. > > The graphic versions are simple .jpg files > > If you encounter any problems with these files, please let me know and I'll > do my best to fix it. > > For PC users: > http://www.waageworks.com/misc/practice_chart.zip > > For Macintosh users: > http://www.waageworks.com/misc/practice_chart.sea.hqx > > Graphic versions: > http://www.waageworks.com/misc/practice_routine.jpg > http:/