Subject: Trombone-l Digest, Vol 12, Issue 30 Date: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 12:00 PM From: trombone-l-request@samford.edu Reply-To: trombone-l@samford.edu To: Conversation: Trombone-l Digest, Vol 12, Issue 30 Send Trombone-l mailing list submissions to trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to trombone-l-request@maillists.samford.edu You can reach the person managing the list at trombone-l-owner@maillists.samford.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Trombone-l digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Milhuad Concertino D'Hiver (andy.skaggs@wachovia.com) 2. Re: improvisation thoughts (Daryl Burch) 3. Re: Milhuad Concertino D'Hiver (Chris Dearth) 4. Re: Milhuad Concertino D'Hiver (Scott Garlock) 5. Re: Milhuad Concertino D'Hiver (Raymond Horton) 6. Re: Milhuad Concertino D'Hiver (andy.skaggs@wachovia.com) 7. Re: Milhuad Concertino D'Hiver (Roger Hecht) 8. Re: Milhaud Concertino D'Hiver (Robert Holland) 9. Re: Milhuad Concertino D'Hiver (Wessner, John) 10. Re: Milhaud Concertino D'Hiver (Atlbrvsnt@aol.com) 11. Re: Milhaud Concertino D'Hiver (Glendening, Andrew) 12. Re: improvisation thoughts (Jeff Albert) 13. new CD Ben van Dijk (Ben van Dijk) 14. Re: Milhuad Concertino D'Hiver (Raymond Horton) 15. My Excellent European Adventure (sabutin) 16. Re: My Excellent European Adventure (richard.bartkus@cox.net) 17. Discoveries (Paul Kemp) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:55:02 -0500 From: andy.skaggs@wachovia.com Subject: [Trombone-l] Milhuad Concertino D'Hiver To: trombone-l@samford.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Dear List Members - I'm trying to find some information on this piece. I'm embarrassed to admit that I'm not at all familiar with it. I'm scheduled to perform a concerto with my orchestra next season, and our MD has given me some tough guidelines to meet. Specifically, I can play anything I want, as long as it's 1) under ten minutes, 2) preferably one-movement (i.e., not a portion of a longer piece), and 3) "showy." My solo will open the concert, as well as the season, so he wants something flashy. Also, we're playing Lutoslawski's Concerto for Orchestra on the second half, and he wants me to play that (I'll get the remainder of the first half off). Would this be a good choice? I've suggested the Creston twice now, to a frosty reception (he thinks it's too long). Other possibilities? I'm not crazy about the Martin Ballade, personally, but I suppose I could play it if I had to. I know this list will generate some great ideas that haven't occurred to me, and I look forward to hearing them. Thanks in advance! - Andy ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:08:52 -0800 From: Daryl Burch Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] improvisation thoughts To: thetubameister@adelphia.net Cc: List Trombone Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed EXACTLY! It's great to memorize/practice the changes/turn arounds/etc. But when you get on stage, forget all that and let it flow out--remember the melody & go! Otherwise, you'll sound like most alto players--a whole lotta notes without much to say! #;-) Cheers! -D- www.radionoise.com <- Rock star by night www.burchinteractive.com <- Tech-nerd by day #;-) On Jan 30, 2006, at 9:14 AM, thetubameister@adelphia.net wrote: > I've never forgotten the words of my mentor, Charlie Teske, who said > (with a menthol in his lips, "Don't worry about the changes, man - you > can see those or not. Remember the tune!" > > I try to focus on the tune; the show-off ending comes naturally :-D > > J.c.S. > > ---- richard.bartkus@cox.net wrote: >> Scott, >> >> I have found, for myself, that reading the changes as I perform >> doesn't work. Again, I am speaking only for myself. The reason for >> me is not that I cannot successfully navigate the changes, it's that >> I am not able to integrate the part of my brain that analyzes the >> changes with the part of my brain that creates. Thus, if it's a 12 >> bar blues there's no analysis to do I just blow. If the changes are >> especially challenging, I try to do my analytical thinking as far >> ahead as is possible. However, during my performance I rely on my >> ear and hearing the line over the changes in my head. >> >> If I find that I have stepped in a hole (or pile), I try to maintain >> composure until I can find my way out. I recall being told once that >> you are never more than a half pitch to a picth away from the right >> note. >> >> I recall one time that I was reading a new piece by a friend, had a >> "senior moment" and lost my place in the changes. I hit a serious >> "klunker" and could not immediately figure out how to get out of it. >> Out of the terror of abject embarassment, I decided to pretend that I >> meant to hit that note and played the klunker again and using my >> "pitch approximation tool" (slide) did a slightly nasty slide down >> until the pitch resolved the line. I won't say that it was the >> greatest, but I got out of 3-0 basses loaded spot and I did get one >> comment from someone who liked it. >> >> I think that the worst thing you can do in that situation is make a >> face, groan or telegraph to the listener that you are not happy with >> your playing. I believe that the key to improvisation is confidence. >> >> Richard >> >> Caveat: You must play most of the improvisation inside or it doesn't >> work. Of course that doesn't explain William Hung >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Trombone-l mailing list >> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 14:26:45 -0500 From: Chris Dearth Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Milhuad Concertino D'Hiver To: , Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Off the top of my head, I think the Creston is shorter than the Milhaud (don't have my recordings in front of me with timings). Personally, I think the audience would be more receptive to the Creston. I don't think the Milhaud is as audience friendly. How about, "Special" by Pierre Gabaye. Short, flashy, audience friendly, etc. I was going to suggest the Martin, but I understand your reasons for not wanting to do so. Hope this helps, Chris Dearth Principal Trombone, West Virginia Symphony Adjunct Instructor, West Virginia Wesleyan -- On 1/30/06 1:55 PM, "andy.skaggs@wachovia.com" wrote: > > > > > Dear List Members - > > I'm trying to find some information on this piece. I'm embarrassed to > admit that I'm not at all familiar with it. I'm scheduled to perform a > concerto with my orchestra next season, and our MD has given me some tough > guidelines to meet. Specifically, I can play anything I want, as long as > it's 1) under ten minutes, 2) preferably one-movement (i.e., not a portion > of a longer piece), and 3) "showy." My solo will open the concert, as well > as the season, so he wants something flashy. Also, we're playing > Lutoslawski's Concerto for Orchestra on the second half, and he wants me to > play that (I'll get the remainder of the first half off). > > Would this be a good choice? I've suggested the Creston twice now, to a > frosty reception (he thinks it's too long). Other possibilities? I'm not > crazy about the Martin Ballade, personally, but I suppose I could play it > if I had to. I know this list will generate some great ideas that haven't > occurred to me, and I look forward to hearing them. Thanks in advance! > > - Andy > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 14:33:28 -0500 From: Scott Garlock Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Milhuad Concertino D'Hiver To: Chris Dearth Cc: trombone-l@samford.edu Message-ID: <1BCFD7AE-5DA5-4FB3-B562-B1F98F67AC9B@ashland.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed I once had a teacher that pointed out that while Milhaud did write just as prolifically as Mozart, there were often casualties as a result. One might put this ditty in that category... I'd also recommend the Grohndahl and if I may, I made an orchestral transcription of the Casterede (w/ the composer's blessing and suggestions) if anyone has an interest... S. On Jan 30, 2006, at 2:26 PM, Chris Dearth wrote: > Off the top of my head, I think the Creston is shorter than the > Milhaud > (don't have my recordings in front of me with timings). > Personally, I think > the audience would be more receptive to the Creston. I don't think > the > Milhaud is as audience friendly. > > How about, "Special" by Pierre Gabaye. Short, flashy, audience > friendly, > etc. > > I was going to suggest the Martin, but I understand your reasons > for not > wanting to do so. > > Hope this helps, > > Chris Dearth > Principal Trombone, West Virginia Symphony > Adjunct Instructor, West Virginia Wesleyan > > -- > > > > > On 1/30/06 1:55 PM, "andy.skaggs@wachovia.com" > > wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> Dear List Members - >> >> I'm trying to find some information on this piece. I'm >> embarrassed to >> admit that I'm not at all familiar with it. I'm scheduled to >> perform a >> concerto with my orchestra next season, and our MD has given me >> some tough >> guidelines to meet. Specifically, I can play anything I want, as >> long as >> it's 1) under ten minutes, 2) preferably one-movement (i.e., not a >> portion >> of a longer piece), and 3) "showy." My solo will open the >> concert, as well >> as the season, so he wants something flashy. Also, we're playing >> Lutoslawski's Concerto for Orchestra on the second half, and he >> wants me to >> play that (I'll get the remainder of the first half off). >> >> Would this be a good choice? I've suggested the Creston twice >> now, to a >> frosty reception (he thinks it's too long). Other possibilities? >> I'm not >> crazy about the Martin Ballade, personally, but I suppose I could >> play it >> if I had to. I know this list will generate some great ideas that >> haven't >> occurred to me, and I look forward to hearing them. Thanks in >> advance! >> >> - Andy >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Trombone-l mailing list >> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 16:44:10 -0500 From: Raymond Horton Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Milhuad Concertino D'Hiver To: andy.skaggs@wachovia.com Cc: trombone-l@samford.edu Message-ID: <43DE88AA.3000102@insightbb.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed I disagree with the other two repies i have seen so far. -- I love this piece, aand think it would make an excellent flashy solo work. The composer's name is pronounced MEEyo, according to my composition teacher, who knew him. It was written on a ship in the Atlantic. You can find out more about it ith a Google search (make sure you spell "Milhaud" correctly). RBH andy.skaggs@wachovia.com wrote: > > >Dear List Members - > >I'm trying to find some information on this piece. I'm embarrassed to >admit that I'm not at all familiar with it. I'm scheduled to perform a >concerto with my orchestra next season, and our MD has given me some tough >guidelines to meet. Specifically, I can play anything I want, as long as >it's 1) under ten minutes, 2) preferably one-movement (i.e., not a portion >of a longer piece), and 3) "showy." My solo will open the concert, as well >as the season, so he wants something flashy. Also, we're playing >Lutoslawski's Concerto for Orchestra on the second half, and he wants me to >play that (I'll get the remainder of the first half off). > >Would this be a good choice? I've suggested the Creston twice now, to a >frosty reception (he thinks it's too long). Other possibilities? I'm not >crazy about the Martin Ballade, personally, but I suppose I could play it >if I had to. I know this list will generate some great ideas that haven't >occurred to me, and I look forward to hearing them. Thanks in advance! > >- Andy > >_______________________________________________ >Trombone-l mailing list >Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > > ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 17:02:37 -0500 From: andy.skaggs@wachovia.com Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Milhuad Concertino D'Hiver To: Raymond Horton Cc: trombone-l@samford.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Yes, "Milhaud." Just typing a little too fast...I'm actually a great admirer of the "Les Six" composers in general, hence my embarrassment at being unfamiliar with the piece (also having been a professional trombonist for the past dozen years or so). It's one of those pieces that just never blipped on my radar screen, for whatever reason. I did (just today) download a portion of a recording, and it sounds like a nice piece (certainly "audience-friendly" enough in my opinion). I think I'll put it on the short list and let the conductor decide what will work best, programming-wise. It's kind of a strange situation, he wants to feature a brass, WW, string and percussion soloist from the orchestra, all on the same concert (and then the Lutoslawski!). That's the reason for the time constraints. I'll probably throw the Wagenseil or L Mozart into the the mix to give him another option...Chris, the Gabaye is a good suggestion, I'll look into that as well. Thanks to everyone for their input so far. The short list will probably look something like this: Creston (still haven't given up on this) +/- 12min Larsson +/- 10min Milhaud +/- 11min Tomasi (mvt.s 2 & 3) +/- 8min Wagenseil/Mozart/Albrechtsberger +/- ? - Andy ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 16:55:46 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Roger Hecht Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Milhuad Concertino D'Hiver To: Raymond Horton , andy.skaggs@wachovia.com Cc: trombone-l@samford.edu Message-ID: <33225864.1138658146619.JavaMail.root@elwamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii It is a marvelous piece. It is also far more effective when played with strings than with piano. Only then do you get the sense of winter. I haven't followed this thread, so I may be repeating what's been said elsewhere. Anyway, its English title is Concerto of Winter and is part of Milhaud's Seasons--a suite of concerts, with each movement dedicated to a season, ala Vivaldi. -----Original Message----- >From: Raymond Horton >Sent: Jan 30, 2006 4:44 PM >To: andy.skaggs@wachovia.com >Cc: trombone-l@samford.edu >Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Milhuad Concertino D'Hiver > >I disagree with the other two repies i have seen so far. -- I love this >piece, aand think it would make an excellent flashy solo work. > >The composer's name is pronounced MEEyo, according to my composition >teacher, who knew him. > >It was written on a ship in the Atlantic. > >You can find out more about it ith a Google search (make sure you spell >"Milhaud" correctly). > >RBH > >andy.skaggs@wachovia.com wrote: > >> >> >>Dear List Members - >> >>I'm trying to find some information on this piece. I'm embarrassed to >>admit that I'm not at all familiar with it. I'm scheduled to perform a >>concerto with my orchestra next season, and our MD has given me some tough >>guidelines to meet. Specifically, I can play anything I want, as long as >>it's 1) under ten minutes, 2) preferably one-movement (i.e., not a portion >>of a longer piece), and 3) "showy." My solo will open the concert, as well >>as the season, so he wants something flashy. Also, we're playing >>Lutoslawski's Concerto for Orchestra on the second half, and he wants me to >>play that (I'll get the remainder of the first half off). >> >>Would this be a good choice? I've suggested the Creston twice now, to a >>frosty reception (he thinks it's too long). Other possibilities? I'm not >>crazy about the Martin Ballade, personally, but I suppose I could play it >>if I had to. I know this list will generate some great ideas that haven't >>occurred to me, and I look forward to hearing them. Thanks in advance! >> >>- Andy >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Trombone-l mailing list >>Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >>http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Trombone-l mailing list >Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l Roger Hecht ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 21:26:19 -0600 From: Robert Holland Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Milhaud Concertino D'Hiver To: "Trb. List" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Andy Skaggs wrote: > It's one of those pieces that just never > blipped on my radar screen, for whatever reason. I did (just today) > download a portion of a recording, and it sounds like a nice piece > (certainly "audience-friendly" enough in my opinion). I think I'll > put it > on the short list and let the conductor decide what will work best, > programming-wise. The Milhaud is a very good work, IMO. I played it on a recital tour I did some years ago. But it has one cardinal weakness: the orchestral accompaniment is quite difficult and almost always sound bad in performance. If you don't have an excellent string section or generous rehearsal time, the soloist can be tainted by association. > The short list will probably look something like this: > > Creston (still haven't given up on this) +/- 12min > Larsson +/- 10min > Milhaud +/- 11min > Tomasi (mvt.s 2 & 3) +/- 8min > Wagenseil/Mozart/Albrechtsberger +/- ? This list just plain depresses me, as it indicates pretty well just how shallow the pool of works to consider is. Robert Holland, Publisher Briar Music Press briar@rcn.com www.briarmusic.com ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 22:27:52 -0500 From: "Wessner, John" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Milhuad Concertino D'Hiver To: , "Raymond Horton" Cc: trombone-l@samford.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I don't think Milhaud is particularly flashy, but maybe that was my fault. I've loved the Larsson since someone was working on it at Towson and did it eventually myself. It's accessible and flashy. Wagenseil should be done on alto or very small tenor. It's as flashy as the cadenza. jw -----Original Message----- From: trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu [mailto:trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu]On Behalf Of andy.skaggs@wachovia.com Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 5:03 PM To: Raymond Horton Cc: trombone-l@samford.edu Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Milhuad Concertino D'Hiver Yes, "Milhaud." Just typing a little too fast...I'm actually a great admirer of the "Les Six" composers in general, hence my embarrassment at being unfamiliar with the piece (also having been a professional trombonist for the past dozen years or so). It's one of those pieces that just never blipped on my radar screen, for whatever reason. I did (just today) download a portion of a recording, and it sounds like a nice piece (certainly "audience-friendly" enough in my opinion). I think I'll put it on the short list and let the conductor decide what will work best, programming-wise. It's kind of a strange situation, he wants to feature a brass, WW, string and percussion soloist from the orchestra, all on the same concert (and then the Lutoslawski!). That's the reason for the time constraints. I'll probably throw the Wagenseil or L Mozart into the the mix to give him another option...Chris, the Gabaye is a good suggestion, I'll look into that as well. Thanks to everyone for their input so far. The short list will probably look something like this: Creston (still haven't given up on this) +/- 12min Larsson +/- 10min Milhaud +/- 11min Tomasi (mvt.s 2 & 3) +/- 8min Wagenseil/Mozart/Albrechtsberger +/- ? - Andy _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 22:47:50 EST From: Atlbrvsnt@aol.com Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Milhaud Concertino D'Hiver To: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <62.649ec7a4.311037e6@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" You are right--it is somewhat depressing. I think there are a few different reasons for this--yes, sometimes audiences are sort of "small-minded" in the eyes of serious musicians such as ourselves. I think it is a combination of this and the fact that so many of our major works were written in the 20th century and all just sound like contemporary trombone music to the average listener. I wasn't there (disclaimer! my sources may be wrong), but I have heard from a few sources that when Colin Williams played the Creston last year with the Atlanta Symphony, it just didn't get that great of a response, but when he played Blue Bells as an encore, the crowd went crazy. Why would this be true? Well, the Creston just sounds like "contemporary trombone music" but Blue Bells is obviously flashy and entertaining. This is not to say that the Creston isn't a good piece. I believe it is. But I think audiences (and musicians who play other instruments) don't want to hear a good trombone piece. They want to hear a piece that is good music, not just good trombone music. There are only a few trombone pieces I know (i certainly don't know every piece out there) that I can listen to and forget that it's a trombone playing them--the Grondahl comes to mind, as does the Rota concerto (give it a listen if you haven't heard it--very well written). I have, in my limited experience, come to realize that pieces like this are not only what win audiences over, they also win non-brass playing judges over (i'm talking here about situations such as competitions open to all instruments and probably judged by string players/pianists/other non-trombonists). And, I don't know about you, but I seem to be drawn to concertos played by other instruments that also fit this criterion--pieces where I am not constantly reminded of the instrument playing them, such as the Mozart clarinet concerto, Dvorak cello concerto, etc. This discussion has been good food for thought...anyone else have any ideas...or pieces that come to mind that fit this description? Tommy Cox Thomas B. Cox Graduate Teaching Assistant UGA Music Education ____________________________________________________ > The short list will probably look something like this: > > Creston (still haven't given up on this) +/- 12min > Larsson +/- 10min > Milhaud +/- 11min > Tomasi (mvt.s 2 & 3) +/- 8min > Wagenseil/Mozart/Albrechtsberger? +/- ? This list just plain depresses me, as it indicates pretty well just how shallow the pool of works to consider is. ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 19:52:09 -0800 From: "Glendening, Andrew" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Milhaud Concertino D'Hiver To: "Trb. List" Message-ID: <68A96BBA413498418240485434CA15665F07E3@s-red-exch-01.redlands.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I'd have to agree with Bob that that list a sad reflection of our literature. That is something that we trombonists might want to ponder. At least there are some newer works that bode well for the future (most of which are too long - like Rouse - for your needs.) The Martin - Ballade is an excellent piece and not too long. The orchestra version is quite effective and easier to bring off physically than Creston. All of the parts that kill the pianist make good sense in the orchestra. Good luck! Andrew Glendening ________________________________ From: trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu on behalf of Robert Holland Sent: Mon 1/30/2006 7:26 PM To: Trb. List Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Milhaud Concertino D'Hiver Andy Skaggs wrote: > It's one of those pieces that just never > blipped on my radar screen, for whatever reason. I did (just today) > download a portion of a recording, and it sounds like a nice piece > (certainly "audience-friendly" enough in my opinion). I think I'll > put it > on the short list and let the conductor decide what will work best, > programming-wise. The Milhaud is a very good work, IMO. I played it on a recital tour I did some years ago. But it has one cardinal weakness: the orchestral accompaniment is quite difficult and almost always sound bad in performance. If you don't have an excellent string section or generous rehearsal time, the soloist can be tainted by association. > The short list will probably look something like this: > > Creston (still haven't given up on this) +/- 12min > Larsson +/- 10min > Milhaud +/- 11min > Tomasi (mvt.s 2 & 3) +/- 8min > Wagenseil/Mozart/Albrechtsberger +/- ? This list just plain depresses me, as it indicates pretty well just how shallow the pool of works to consider is. Robert Holland, Publisher Briar Music Press briar@rcn.com www.briarmusic.com _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 22:53:55 -0600 From: Jeff Albert Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] improvisation thoughts To: Scott Garlock Cc: Trombone-L Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed I have found I usually get the best results when i can really clear my mind and listen to what is happening before I play. I try to hear the music that is happening and let that music continue when I start to play. I don't do that successfully all the time, but when I do, it is usually a good thing. Jeff ===================== Jeff Albert www.jeffalbert.com www.scratchmybrain.com On Jan 30, 2006, at 7:28 AM, Scott Garlock wrote: > Greetings all! > say, just gave a talk at the state music convention here on beginners > and improvisation and it occurred to me in the preparation of this > that a topic of interest might be to discuss what people think of in > the moments/seconds before they take a chorus. While I know what I > think and I've got some material from my compadres on this and have > collected a few thoughts from folks like Dizzy on this, my study is > by no means comprehensive. Can I convince some folks to share what > they think? > thanks, > S. > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 08:22:07 +0100 From: "Ben van Dijk" Subject: [Trombone-l] new CD Ben van Dijk To: Message-ID: <200601310722.k0V7M7nM026974@smtp-vbr15.xs4all.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear trombone friends, I like to announce the release of my third solo CD "Melody". The liner notes in the booklet give you an indication of what the CD is about: Ben van Dijk's unique style glows throughout this recording. The combination of Ben, his Thein bass trombone and the "van Maarschalkerweerd" organ, played in a transparent and beautifully registered way, by Henry le Comte, is a wonderful combination. Every track reflects Ben's warmth, friendliness and musicianship even more than his previous recordings. This recording is a most valuable learning tool in today's world of virtuosic, technical music where so often melodies are not perceived to be as important as technical passages. This recording is of particular interest anyone interested in solo playing and developing their musicianship. It is a must for all trombonists and brass players and is truly a joy to listen to. By Newell Sheridan More information available on: www.basstrombone.nl Ben van Dijk BVD Music Productions Basstrombone Rotterdam Philharmonic Rotterdam Conservatory Royal Northern College of Music, Manchester www.basstrombone.nl ben@basstrombone.nl ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 02:40:32 -0500 From: Raymond Horton Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Milhuad Concertino D'Hiver To: andy.skaggs@wachovia.com Cc: trombone-l@samford.edu Message-ID: <43DF1470.3060404@insightbb.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Add the Rimsky-Korsakov, if you can get my old friend Martin Hughes at Winthrop University to rent you his excellent orchestration of it. It is a much better piece for orchestra than either band or piano, because the strings can "triple-tongue" much easier than clarinets or the pianist's right hand, so the first movement can be taken as fast as the soloist wants. I played it a few years ago on a orchestral concerto program and it was a great audience pleaser. Only, be sure to stick to R-K's version (the Masters publication is the closest), not any of the bowlderized editions, of which the famous Davis Shuman edition published by MCA is the worst. Shuman's octave changes distort the shape of the entire first movement, destroying the climax. The cadenza at the end of the third movement can be easily edited to add high range, but Shuman's version is awful. The whole concerto is only 11 minutes long. RBH andy.skaggs@wachovia.com wrote: > > Yes, "Milhaud." Just typing a little too fast...I'm actually a great > admirer of the "Les Six" composers in general, hence my embarrassment > at being unfamiliar with the piece (also having been a professional > trombonist for the past dozen years or so). It's one of those pieces > that just never blipped on my radar screen, for whatever reason. I > did (just today) download a portion of a recording, and it sounds like > a nice piece (certainly "audience-friendly" enough in my opinion). I > think I'll put it on the short list and let the conductor decide what > will work best, programming-wise. It's kind of a strange situation, > he wants to feature a brass, WW, string and percussion soloist from > the orchestra, all on the same concert (and then the Lutoslawski!). > That's the reason for the time constraints. I'll probably throw the > Wagenseil or L Mozart into the the mix to give him another > option...Chris, the Gabaye is a good suggestion, I'll look into that > as well. Thanks to everyone for their input so far. > > The short list will probably look something like this: > > Creston (still haven't given up on this) +/- 12min > Larsson +/- 10min > Milhaud +/- 11min > Tomasi (mvt.s 2 & 3) +/- 8min > Wagenseil/Mozart/Albrechtsberger +/- ? > > - Andy ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 11:27:32 -0500 From: sabutin Subject: [Trombone-l] My Excellent European Adventure To: TROMBONE-L@server5.SAMFORD.EDU Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Hi all... I first posted this on my website/forum, and thought about simply posting a link to it here on the trombone list.. In fact, here IS a link, for those who might be interested in the extensive conversations that stemmed from this post. But I decided to post the whole thing here instead. It has as much or more to do with societal issues than anything else, so for those of you that simply want to talk about trombones...save yourself the aggravation and send it directly to the trash. For the rest...read on. ============================================================ So here I am, flying back from 9 days of teaching and one concert in Europe?first in London for several days and then at the Prince Claus Conservatory in Groningen, a truly beautiful small city in equally beautiful Holland. Great school, too. Now I have been an American musician playing American music in American ensembles on a professional level since about 1964?traveling with them throughout the United States and throughout the world, but always in an American system?booked by American booking agents, paid and managed by American interests, looked upon and treated as a part of an group of people who are jazz and/or latin musicians within the American system (with all of the pluses and minuses that position implies), and I am here to tell you that in all of my literally thousands of gigs during that time, I have NEVER been treated with the line-level respect as an artist and a human being that I encountered on this trip. I have been fawned over as part of some kind of star system on occasion; I have been treated as a pop musician or a jazz musician or whatever?a freak oddity to be observed but not really respected per se?and most often I have been used as a piece of mood-inducing scenery at concerts or shows or festivals where what I was doing and the performance group of which I was a part were merely a sideshow to the real business at hand, which was basically to mildly entertain people who really had little or no interest in the content of what I was performing. The SINGLE scene in which this was not true was the latin scene when the music was an integral part of that culture, and to this day?really 20 years or more after that culture began to disappear?I am treated with the same kind of respect by people who were IN that culture when they realize that I had been a real, functioning part of it. And suddenly, as a sort of independent semi-expatriate who brings some kind of knowledge about the real roots of this music we laughingly call jazz, suddenly I find myself being treated with real respect. I feel the same way as the first black players must have felt?Louis Armstrong, Sidney Bechet, Duke Ellington and those who followed them?when the burden of racism was for a moment lifted from their backs and they were accepted by Europeans as real artists instead of as semi-escaped slaves and primitives who had some song and dance stuff happening. Because the truth of the matter is that we are ALL the niggers of the American ruling class now. ALL people who try to make real art, tell some sort of objective truth about what is happening or even simply do some real work as opposed to hustling for a living. I watched a fine documentary about the Enron fiasco ("The Smartest Guys In The Room") during the first part of the flight tonight. It is a film that I guarantee you will not see on a corporate-owned American airplane anytime real soon (I am flying Virgin Atlantic?British, and by far the best run airline I have been on in many years. The REAL smartest people in the room, I think. The airline room, anyway.)?and the parallels between how the American jazz business is run, the corporate rot that let Enron happen (And CONTINUES to let it happen up and down the business culture. Bet on it. Enron was just a snapshot, a scam that got little too big for its britches.), and the Permanent Government that is literally destroying this country became crystal clear to me. As above, so below. Enron's ruling class?its top, hottest thing ever, Harvard/Yale Business school execs?literally ripped off its workers and its customers to the tune of billions of dollars, and although some of the members of that ruling class went to jail because they got too greedy, NONE of them expressed any regret or even apparently understood their own guilt in the matter. And they were quite consciously aided and abetted in their crimes by the entire legal, financial and political establishment of this country. Then, when they got caught, those same segments of the PermaGov washed their hands of them. Which is EXACTLY what is happening with BushCo?of which Enron was just a business arm?today. Just like the slaveowners who founded this country on forced labor and on the genocide of the people who lived here originally. People who believed that they were somehow "better" than their subjects. Their victims. I have seen the same behavior and seen it consistently in the business people who run the music world and in the educational world as well here. We are their niggers, nothing more, to be used at the lowest possible dollar and then cast aside when shallow styles change or we try to say something new and challenging. And I have just about had it. I am through taking their shit. This experience literally opened my eyes. I found myself in a small concert hall Thursday night in Groningen playing some REALLY challenging music?my own stuff plus some latinized Mingus tunes that I put together for Tito Puente some years ago?with three wonderful Dutch musicians who got what I had to say about performing the music with no American "I know it all already" attitude. They were simply there to play. It was challenging to listen to as well. No fluff, lots of freedom, no compromises to popular taste or current style whatsoever. Completely new, in the sense that if you heard it you would never think it sounded much "like" something else you had ever heard. And the audience of two hundred or so accepted it without question or reserve. Wide open to the experience. The staff at the concert hall were courteous, respectful and super-competent. The sound people were never intrusive or self-important. Like the musicians, they were there for the music, and it was literally the first time on a stage that I can remember where I did not either have to fight with sound people to get a primarily acoustic blend or simply give up and try to power my playing right on through their ignorance. The same with the teaching scene. In BOTH countries. Students eager to learn something real rather than media-confused star chasers and front runners hypnotized by whomever the newspapers and fan magazines and the academic/industrial complex have elected as the star of the moment. Faculty who were there to teach instead of just get by and earn an extra buck. Administration that was trying as hard as they possibly could to provide a positive experience for both the students and the teachers. The ONLY scene in America that is even partially like that is the no-money, pretty much play-for-the-door club scene. And even there, although the musicians are doing it for love and large parts of the audience are often very serious about listening, I can count on one hand the number of club owners who have treated the musicians with any kind of respect whatsoever. And I wouldn't even have to use all of my fingers. The parallel with the murderers and thieves who run this country is clear. It is now the same up and down the society. Ken Lay, the weak, W. Bush-like front man who "ran" Enron while really talented thieves and con men with names like Skilling and Fastow and most of all the elusive , supposedly sexually obsessed "Lou Pai" (Who's writing these names, by the way? Too perfect.) Cheney-ed and chiseled their way to hundreds of millions?money that is stashed away somewhere in off-shore accounts while they do their prison time, no doubt?was actually seriously considered for the post of Secretary of Energy by Bush after the 2000 non-election. (Remember?Enron was TEXAS thieves. As in "as thick as".) He probably would have gotten the gig if the Enron scam hadn't collapsed before they succeeded in appointing him. It will take some time, but I am through with America. Like James Joyce, it looks to me as if the only way that I will be able to make really American art is to leave the place where it started. Too bad I didn't wise up sooner. Anyone in a healthier country want a fulltime teacher? Of trombone, of brass, of theory, of ensembles, of music direction, of composition, arranging and orchestration, of the history of the music, of idiomatic performing styles? And/or a performer whose roots go WAY deep into American music? I am now formally available. Have music, will travel. For a day or a month or a year or a decade. Later for America. It is SO over. I now truly believe that this system will have to collapse...like the fall of the stock market in 1928 if it is lucky, or much much worse if it is not...before it reforms itself. Nasty business... Sam Burtis ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 12:12:15 -0500 From: Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] My Excellent European Adventure To: Message-ID: <20060131171008.ZJHI17006.fed1rmmtao02.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Wow ! There's a lot to digest in what Sam has said. Some things I applaud physically as I read it, some I agree with whole heartedly and some I will have to think about. It is my humble opinion that the narcissism of our culture is not limited to Enron or Politicians; I believe that it exists in almost all socio-economic levels, although it does appear to be more prevelant in the "elite" class. Back to how this applies to my experience in the music scene here in So. California; and mostly Orange County Local Disney (AFM 007). Most of the rooms I have played, the people not only didn't seem to care, they appeared to go out of their way to be rude. First, there aren't that many places that support live music, and very very few places where the people are there to hear the music. They all seem to be trying to "hook-up" and the performer is incidental. I went to hear a very fine sax player friend the other night and he was blowing some seriously great lines, but I could hardly hear him over the all the talking and . . . . . sports TV at the bar? The few occasions that I have been blessed to perform anywhere in Europe/Med has been the pinnacle of appreciation for me. I was often embarassed by how well I was treated in Lisbon. I kept telling them I wasn't Sam Burtis but they kept fawning over me anyway . I love living where I do, but often fight being discouraged about the local Jazz Scene. Perhaps if I practiced a little longer, more diligently..... Well I need to do that anyway, but I do not expect the culture to change too much anytime soon. Richard PS - Actually I am a very content and happy soul; this email sounds pretty dark. ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 12:55:10 -0500 From: "Paul Kemp" Subject: [Trombone-l] Discoveries To: Message-ID: <000001c6268f$7ab021e0$0201a8c0@paul25nv60mdvg> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear list, I've been on this list a long time, and I've become increasingly more aware that it's of the utmost importance that we know WHY we do what we do on the instrument. In my mind, that one thing is what separates trombone players from musicians who play the trombone. God knows that we need more to join the latter group. In fact, I'll go a bit further. In following the thread that Andy Skaggs started, it is no secret that the ITA has been instrumental in commissioning new works for our instrument, and if that does nothing else, it raises public awareness as to the capabilities of our instrument. However, I'm rather disappointed in much of the solo literature that has been commissioned for our instrument. Much of it wouldn't really qualify as great art. Yet, we feel that because it's new, we must jump on the bandwagon. That's my opinion, and I'm not looking to start a fight. Much of what has been written in the past 35 years would definitely fall into the higher/faster/louder group. That's enough on that. I'd like to share some things that have been helping me the past several weeks in terms of my own practice. There are certain concepts that are like little angels sitting on my shoulder. Concepts such "Take in enough air so that you can waste it. It's cheap: it doesn't cost you anything". "It's not so much what you do, but how you do it." If I'm looking for a holy grail, then it would be a proper balance in order to cover the different technical aspects of playing. There's something to be said for doing certain things every day. I had wondered why Charlie Vernon advocated playing Bordogni in tenor clef down an octave (a 4th lower than written). Then I tried it. I discovered that's it's not a range thing. In fact, all of those notes are relatively easy to play. However, I decided to incorporate some things that Harry Maddox and Larry Borden shared with me, such as buzzing the mouthpiece with a spirometer and also using the cut-away mouthpiece. I tried doing Bordogni down a 4th and I was shocked to discover just how difficult that was to do, especially on the spirometer, and I didn't have it set that high either. What I'm finding is that it gives me more result with less effort. It's also not necessary to buzz as fast as you would play the passage. In fact, SLOWER and SOFTER seems to get better results for me. When I can do it REALLY WELL and REALLY CONSISTENTLY, then I'll go for where it's written 8va basso. Another thing that I've been doing the past couple of weeks is the Norman Bolter High Range Exercises. Again, I've found that it's not necessarily about decibels: it's more about really sounding good (and really making sure that the slide goes in the right place) on every note, and also playing everything with a definite sense of phrase. I just started working on the Charles Colin Lip Flexibilities with that same thing in mind. Sound good on every note, and I try to see the MUSIC in the exercise. As I see improvement, it really wets my practicing appetite. It's also good to know WHEN TO QUIT. In the past, I've practiced so hard that it's a wonder that I just didn't absolutely destroy my face. Norman Bolter's comments in his high range book about resting being just as important as the playing are so true, but it's true in EVERYTHING. Don't put trombone in gear before engaging brain. After a while, the brain needs to think about something else. Well, back to it. I was taking a break, and I just thought I'd share some things with you folks. Paul Kemp ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l End of Trombone-l Digest, Vol 12, Issue 30 ******************************************