Subject: TROMBONE-L Digest - 25 Feb 2004 to 26 Feb 2004 (#2004-58) Date: Friday, February 27, 2004 12:00 AM From: Automatic digest processor Reply-To: "Trombones and related issues forum." To: Recipients of TROMBONE-L digests There are 24 messages totalling 721 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Business Cards 2. Reading and Writing (6) 3. New! Ellington Tbn 4tets 4. NP (2) 5. Gordon Goodwin at Elmhurst Jazz Fest 6. Speaking of Bordogni... (2) 7. Musical grammar 8. Reka Superslide Question-to Refrigerate or Not? 9. OTJ classifieds plug 10. "They Say" lead sheet (4) 11. FW: [TBN-L] Speaking of Bordogni... 12. More on "They Say" 13. Minnesota Orchestra Trombones 14. trombone and electronic doo-hickeys ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 05:57:35 +0000 From: Daniel Pliskin Subject: Re: Business Cards >A nice touch on business cards is to go to a place like Office Depot and >buy the magnets that fit on the back of business cards. It will allow >someone to put your card on a fridge or metal filing cabinets. Yea, it will also allow them to put the card in their wallets, erasing all of their credit cards. But hey... no problem. 8?) DanP _________________________________________________________________ Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage ö 4 plans to choose from! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 05:54:20 +0000 From: Daniel Pliskin Subject: Re: Reading and Writing > >My pet peeve in this area is "Can I get youse anything?" Seems to be >specific to this county! > Jeez Patrick, Everyone knows it's spelled "yous". DanP _________________________________________________________________ Stay informed on Election 2004 and the race to Super Tuesday. http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 23:43:09 -0800 From: Robert Elkjer Subject: New! Ellington Tbn 4tets New sheet music from Elkjer Music: Ellington Trombone Quartets, Volume 1 Fully licensed and copyright approved. Six rich, full (but not overly complicated) arrangements of Duke Ellington classics. Visit Elkjer Music for audio clips and info: http://home.pacbell.net/melkjer Thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 07:27:58 -0000 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: Reading and Writing From: "Lisa & Patrick Bates" > My pet peeve in this area is "Can I get youse anything?" Seems to be > specific to this county! Scotland too. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 08:06:54 -0500 From: Jay Sheridan Subject: Re: NP Our new school was built about a year ago, and we have blackboards. OK, it is not quite black, kind of a dark grey, but they are chalk boards nonetheless. They were even nice enough to add the staff lines on the board for me- they must have known that I can't draw a straight line to save my life... Jay Sheridan Director of Music Upper Scioto Valley Local School McGuffey, OH jsheridan@usv.k12.oh.us ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 12:32 AM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] NP > Hi Bill, > > << (Remember blackboards? Are there any left?) >> > > Sure there are. Except now they're white . . . and you use a kind of weenie > magic marker on them. > > You should have seen the look of disbelief on my Wife's granddaughter's face > when I told her they used to be black. You should have seen the look of > disbelief on my face when her Son (38 years old) didn't remember them either. > > MS ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 09:07:12 -0500 From: Erik Tkal Subject: Re: NP Jay Sheridan wrote: >Our new school was built about a year ago, and we have blackboards. OK, it >is not quite black, kind of a dark grey, but they are chalk boards >nonetheless. They were even nice enough to add the staff lines on the board >for me- they must have known that I can't draw a straight line to save my >life... > Heh, we used to have these wooden frames that held five pieces of chalk spaced evenly apart that were used to draw staff lines. At least they'd be all uneven together... :-P Erik (41.5, who never saw whiteboards until well after college in the late 80s). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 09:46:26 -0600 From: Jeff Oien Subject: Re: Gordon Goodwin at Elmhurst Jazz Fest Concert is sold out at the moment but you can try to call Saturday noon to see if that's changed. Jeff Oien alex iles wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Gordon Goodwin's Big Phat Band will be appearing at the Elmhurst Jazz > Festival [in Illinois, that is] this Saturday evening, Feb. 28. > > For more info...http://www.ecjazzfest.org/ > > The trombone section will be Andy Martin, myself, Charlie Morillas and > Craig Ware. > > Hope to see some of you there! > > Alex Iles > > PS Mike Davis will be appearing as a soloist with the Elmhurst band on > Sunday!! > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 09:56:40 -0600 From: Robert Holland Subject: Re: Reading and Writing This thread has gotten me thinking. The original idea was that a college music student with an English minor would be more valuable or at least more pleasant with whom to work than your run-of-the- mill trombone jock. The thread has now morphed into an iteration of language peeves and notes on dialect, which is fine. But to bring this back around to the discussion of music, I wonder how many of us truly understand the nuts and bolts of English grammar, and more importantly, the nuts and bolts of musical grammar. My contention is that few of us demonstrate any understanding in our playing. For instance, the really very basic Classical stress-release relationship is uniformly obliterated by players intent of maintaining evenness, which is to say evenness of tone, articulation, dynamic, etc. That's a technical consideration, not a musical one, and runs counter to the way music needs to sound. (Should the first two notes of the Tuba Mirum solo really be the same except for pitch?) Just one very simple instance of pandemic failure before we all go patting ourselves on the back for how wonderful we are or deriding those who pay attention to the nuts and bolts as being too anal retentive. Robert Holland Briar Music Press briar@chicagonet.net =================================================================== EASY and FREE access to your email anywhere: http://elderink.com/mailreader =================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 11:31:59 -0500 From: Chris Dearth Subject: Speaking of Bordogni... The other night one of my buddies, who does a lot of private trombone locally, showed me some of the Bordogni Vocalises accompaniments using the SmartMusic accompaniment software. He had brought his laptop, speakers, and bell clip mic, and had one of his students playing his Bordogni etude of the week with the SmartMusic accompaniment. It sounded quite good (quality of piano sound was very acceptable). He had turned off the function that makes the software follow the player (making the player work with it like a metronome). Seemed like it would be an interesting teaching tool with lots of possibilities and one that would give a student a chance to play something with accompaniment (which is something many students, and ourselves, don't do enough). It added a dimension to the Bordogni etudes that was interesting (I think it encourages one to start thinking of them MORE as a piece of music and not just another etude). I'm going to play around with it next week to try out the following function (where it adjusts to your tempo, etc). Definitely not a replacement for a good pianist, but seemed like good teaching and learning tool. I checked out the SmartMusic site (www.smartmusic.com) and they had a fairly decent range of works for tenor trombone (didn't check bass; sorry :-) ). It's also available for PC and MAC (including OSX) (YEAH!!!). Oh yea, I am not affiliated with SmartMusic (so this doesn't go into the Shamless Plug Division of Trombone-L). :-) Chris Dearth Principal Trombone, West Virginia Symphony 2nd Trombone, Evansville Philharmonic ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 11:44:22 -0500 From: "David A. Schwartz" Subject: Re: Speaking of Bordogni... At 11:31 AM 2/26/2004 -0500, Chris Dearth wrote: >The other night one of my buddies, who does a lot of private trombone >locally, showed me some of the Bordogni Vocalises accompaniments using the >SmartMusic accompaniment software. . . Remember that Bordogni's piano accompaniments are lesson material, not performance vehicles. Accordingly, they can be metronomic and at times pedantic. But they provide a nice harmonic context, and they tend to enforce good rhythm, pitch, breathing and phrasing. My own synthesized renditions can feel stiff initially, but then, when we play the phrases (very often longer than Rochut's phrases) and shape them, a new freedom appears. A good soloist transcends the rigidity of his accompanist. For free MP3 and PDF downloads (Thanks to Colleen Wheeler and Wheaton College in Norton, Massachusetts) for three Bordogni accompaniments, numbers 3, 4, and 5, use this link: http://www.wheatonma.edu/it_s/internet2/trombone/tromboneMaterials.html David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 12:07:19 -0500 From: Stephen Troy Subject: Re: Musical grammar At 09:56 AM 02/26/2004 -0600, Robert Holland wrote: >For instance, the really very basic Classical stress-release >relationship is uniformly obliterated by players intent of maintaining >evenness, which is to say evenness of tone, articulation, dynamic, >etc. That's a technical consideration, not a musical one, and runs >counter to the way music needs to sound. (Should the first two notes >of the Tuba Mirum solo really be the same except for pitch?) Anyone who has had the pleasure of being in a group conducted by Jerry Nowak would never get away with playing it that way. He is one person who comes to mind who insists everyone understand (and follow) musical grammar. Andre Smith is another. I am lucky enough to play under both on a regular basis. Steve Troy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 09:54:57 -0800 From: John Reifel Subject: Reka Superslide Question-to Refrigerate or Not? I'm sure this has been covered before and I don't want to open any can of worms, but . . . for those of you with experience in the matter: Does Reka Superslide perform better and/or last longer if it is refrigerated?? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 13:36:57 EST From: MikeSuter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Reading and Writing Robert Holland's objections aside, there is an important correlation for this list between musical and literary grammar. I and apparently many other members of this list feel it's important that one should be able to communicate their thoughts without smilies and catch phrases (the literary version of a sound byte). It's not that we consider ourselves to be smarter or better educated than younger members, but it's surely an indication that that two generations who were taught two entirely different ways of communicating are now occupying the same space and time, and that we have an awful time understanding each other sometimes. And, as one member suggested, it's not a matter of paranoia. It's one of perception. When I started school one of the prime distinctions between the social 'classes' was how well you wrote and spoke. It was far more important then than it is now. Technology changed that. Fifty years of evolution has changed that. Computers didn't exist. Hell, dial telephones weren't all that common until the mid-50s. What would take days of dedicated research, now takes just a few minutes on the internet. The downside is that then you really had to have something to say to justify the cost of printing. Now, with a computer and a WP program, any yahoo (including me) has an audience. Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-progress. I love the things I can do now. I don't rapturize about the 'good old days' because they weren't. But it was during that time that I developed my values, and I'm not about to discard them just because someone doesn't agree with them. And the values I was taught indeed have a profound musical impact. It has long been my contention that I was taught to play music while succeeding generations have, more and more, been taught to just play trombone. I'd love to blame today's educators for that (and I sometimes do) but they've been victimized by history and technology as much as anyone else. Even while stuck firmly in the past, the sheer amount of trombone literature has doubled in the last fifty years. At the same time (because of media, economics, and many other factors) the amount of work for professional trombonists has been decimated - in its truest definition. So we end up with the musical version of babies teaching babies. And it's really not their fault. Instead of 10-15 years learning their craft before moving on to the field of education via a system that no longer exists, they make do; learning as they teach. Not a good method for anyone, but better than the alternative. But I don't have to like it. And I don't have to be concerned that not all of you share my opinion. Enough do to make my efforts worthwhile. And I didn't use the word "our" in the two preceding sentences because I don't presume to speak for anyone but myself. Rant not nearly over, Mike Suter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 11:57:57 -0700 From: Bill Stanley Subject: OTJ classifieds plug Hello all - a quick FYI: I've put a unique, hand-made Minick bell up for sale on the OTJ classifieds - also an early Edwards tenor. Take a look if you're interested. http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/ Thanks Bill Stanley College of Music University of Colorado 303/492-5469 http://spot.colorado.edu/~stanleyw ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:23:36 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee Subject: "They Say" lead sheet There is a little known ballad cannel "They Say". I'd like to do an arrangement of this piece, but I can't find it in any of my fake books. Frank Rosolino did a nice version of this on the Frank Rosolino/5 album in 1957. I could work from that, but I doubt he was true to the lyrical line. I'd like to make sure I know how the lyrics fit before starting the arrangement. I can't find anything in this tune. I'd appreciate any leads on this. Is it in a fake book? Sheet music available somewhere? Thanks, Criag ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 20:58:25 +0000 From: Daniel Pliskin Subject: Re: Reading and Writing >... I was taught to play music while succeeding >generations have, more and more, been taught to just play trombone. > But I do believe that technology is to blame. It used to be that a few good musicians in each town would get together and play the music for local dances, and the like. As recordings, radio and TV developed, more and more of that music was pre-recorded. Fewer musicians were getting hired and those who were, needed to distinguish themselves, beyond just being able to play beautiful music. Some tried to play the fastest stuff. Some tried to play the most intricate·some, the most modern·some, the loudest. Surely thereās a time a place for each of those skills, but in and of themselves, none of them is particularly musical. And so we find ourselves only listening to musicians who specialize in being on the fringe of what is considered musical. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Take off on a romantic weekend or a family adventure to these great U.S. locations. http://special.msn.com/local/hotdestinations.armx ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 13:43:42 -0800 From: Galen McQuarrie Subject: Re: "They Say" lead sheet Isn't that from the musical "Annie Get your Gun"? I looked for in on one of the online sheet music outlets and found an accompaniment. I don't remember exactly which one, however. Galen McQuarrie -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU]On Behalf Of Craig Parmerlee Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 11:24 AM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: [TBN-L] "They Say" lead sheet There is a little known ballad cannel "They Say". I'd like to do an arrangement of this piece, but I can't find it in any of my fake books. Frank Rosolino did a nice version of this on the Frank Rosolino/5 album in 1957. I could work from that, but I doubt he was true to the lyrical line. I'd like to make sure I know how the lyrics fit before starting the arrangement. I can't find anything in this tune. I'd appreciate any leads on this. Is it in a fake book? Sheet music available somewhere? Thanks, Criag ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 16:59:40 -0500 From: Harlan Feinstein Subject: Re: "They Say" lead sheet Galen> Isn't that from the musical "Annie Get your Gun"? I looked for in on Galen> one of the online sheet music outlets and found an accompaniment. I Galen> don't remember exactly which one, however. If Galen's right, the song's called "They Say It's Wonderful" and it's by Irving Berlin. That might help you find it. I've got a lead sheet of it here if that could help you establish whether it's the right song. --Harlan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 17:24:49 -0500 From: Chris Dearth Subject: FW: [TBN-L] Speaking of Bordogni... >Remember that Bordogni's piano accompaniments are lesson material, not >performance vehicles. Accordingly, they can be metronomic and at times >pedantic. But they provide a nice harmonic context, and they tend to >enforce good rhythm, pitch, breathing and phrasing. Your last sentence about, "enforce good rhythm, pitch, breathing and phrasing," was exactly what I was thinking about after seeing and hearing SmartMusic. I am aware of the purpose of the Bordogni vocalises and this is why I went WOW. Though the Bordogni accompaniments are not too difficult, how many trombone players can play well enough to accompany their students through a Bordogni vocalise (realistically, I haven't touched keyboard since college)? It helps connect one to them as a small piece of music instead of just a study, adding a whole new dimension to them as a teaching tool I haven't sampled your accompaniments and will have to do so (I got your other e-mail and will reply to it off-list). I remember you mentioning them previously on the list, but had forgotten about them. For clarity sake, I wasn't recommending SmartMusic over your synthesized accompaniments, just informing everybody of SmartMusic and Bordogni. :-) >My own synthesized renditions can feel stiff initially, but then, when we >play the phrases (very often longer than Rochut's phrases) and shape them, >a new freedom appears. A good soloist transcends the rigidity of his >accompanist. The SmartMusic system also had the ability to turn off it's following capabilities, making one musically adapt to a stiffer accompaniment(kind of in the way you mentioned). But since your set is on CD, it lends a portability that SmartMusic doesn't have (any old CD player will do :-) ) whereas you are shackled to your computer with SmartMusic (even a laptop and an external set of speakers is much bulkier than a CD player boom box). Chris Dearth Principal Trombone, West Virginia Symphony 2nd Trombone, Evansville Philharmonic ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 17:44:52 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee Subject: Re: "They Say" lead sheet At 04:59 PM 2/26/2004, Harlan Feinstein wrote: > Galen> Isn't that from the musical "Annie Get your Gun"? I looked > for in on > Galen> one of the online sheet music outlets and found an > accompaniment. I > Galen> don't remember exactly which one, however. > >If Galen's right, the song's called "They Say It's Wonderful" and it's by >Irving Berlin. That might help you find it. I've got a lead sheet of >it here >if that could help you establish whether it's the right song. No, this is a different tune, apparently the main composer was a Mr. or Ms. Heyman. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 17:56:11 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee Subject: More on "They Say" I found more information on this tune. It is credited to Edward Heyman / Paul Mann / Stephan Weiss Edward Heyman wrote some other great songs including When I Fall in Love, Easy Come, Easy Go, Body and Soul, and Rain Rain Go Away. That might just make him the greatest 20th Century songwriter nobody has ever heard of. Here are the lyrics for They Say They say you have no lips For a fool such as I They say you just believe In hello and goodbye And they say that the one I admire Isn't even remotely concerned And that I'll go on playing with fire Until I have learned My heart has been burned They say I shouldn't dream Of your face in the moon They say all of my dreams will be Nightmares too soon Let them talk Let them think what they want to If it makes them feel happy that way I know I'll always love you No matter what they say This confirms my suspicion that the Rosolino rendition doesn't track very close to the original melody. Turns out this tune has been recorded by lots of singers so I'll look for one of those recordings. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 18:13:35 -0500 From: "Wessner, John" Subject: Re: Reading and Writing Just to chime in on this one more time. Toward the end of the 80s we shifted the music at Phillips in Baltimore to include 50s and pre-Beatles 60s. I spent some time transcribing lyrics, both from that era and the "golden age of American popular song" period. Initially all my word processing was Larry Hart and Cole Porter and such. When I hit the mid-60s the spell checker rebelled. The sophistication level plummeted to sweaty car-encased adolescent also. jw ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 18:45:44 EST From: Steve88h@AOL.COM Subject: Minnesota Orchestra Trombones Critic Matt Peiken has been covering the Minnesota Orchestra on its current European tour for the St. Paul Pioneer Press. Today's article features the trombone section. It can be viewed at: http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/entertainment/music/8041574.htm Steve Lund ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 00:32:25 -0500 From: Monique Buzzarte Subject: Re: trombone and electronic doo-hickeys I do quite a bit of work with live processing - using a Mac running Max/MSP software (after many years of a Mac-only application, Max has recently been released for Windows). Aside from that, my set up includes a Hammerfall Multiface interface (I often use 4 channels out), a MIDI interface, a pedal board and pedals (for hands-free controlling of various parameters), plus patch cables, a mic, mixer, and speakers. The Max/MSP program allows users to create "patches" in a graphical programming language. These patches emulate in software anything hardware can do (loopers, effects, etc.) Max's learning curve is rather steep. Monique At 12:00 AM -0600 2/26/04, Automatic digest processor wrote: >Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 11:15:29 -0800 >From: Alex Heitlinger >Subject: trombone and electronic doo-hickeys > >hi list, >i was thinking back to a concert i saw with robin >eubanks performing solo with various effects/loops/etc >and i was wondering if any of you had experience with >this kind of thing. i'd be interested inlearning >about how to achieve guitar type effects on the >trombone. specifically what equipment i'll need and >how to set it up. as you can tell, i'm not too >tech-savvy. >-alex -- ________________________ Monique BuzzartŽ monique@buzzarte.org http://www.buzzarte.org ------------------------------ End of TROMBONE-L Digest - 25 Feb 2004 to 26 Feb 2004 (#2004-58) ****************************************************************