Subject: TROMBONE-L Digest - 30 Dec 2002 to 31 Dec 2002 (#2003-1) Date: Wednesday, January 1, 2003 12:00 AM From: Automatic digest processor Reply-To: "Trombones and related issues forum." To: Recipients of TROMBONE-L digests There are 39 messages totalling 1988 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. music stand light (4) 2. Why non-transposing? (12) 3. More brass-related than trombone (12) 4. [TROMBONE-L] - a little more--corrections (2) 5. happy new year (2) 6. Happy New Year (3) 7. Further Destruction of a Noble Profession is Attempted 8. Musical Influences (3) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 00:46:41 -0600 From: Gary Greenhoe Subject: Re: music stand light Yeah David and John! I've used one of these for a couple of years and they are super. Nice even lighting across the stand, clips firmly on the stand...and if there's a power source available, it can be plugged in. gary -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU]On Behalf Of David Oliver Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 11:41 PM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Re: [TBN-L] music stand light I know some might thump on me for this, but if you've got macular degeneration and need a rechargeable I would strongly recommend the "Concert Light" by Lampcraft. Actually, they now sell the "Concert Light II", which is now $120 including the case. I paid around $150 for all that for my older model over two years ago. Obviously it is pricey, but often you get what you pay for. I've never had a problem with it, and it puts out a bright, wide light for at least 3.5 hours on one charge (a the high capacity Nickel Metal Hydride battery). It literally lights the stands next to you if it is dark. The lamp has a 30,000 hour life. I was almost tempted to do a home project as many others have done, but am glad I went this route. You get a 30 day money back on it. Almost the whole DCB trombone section owns them now, mainly because they saw two of us use them a various summer and formal concerts. Seeing is believing. I haven't heard any of the other players say they wasted their money. The website is: www.lampcraft.com 800-277-5527 David Oliver Broomfield, CO USA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 23:53:55 -0700 From: James Scott Subject: Re: Why non-transposing? Norbert - There are some examples of transposed bass clef - Strauss tenor tuba parts in B flat bass clef, for instance - but these are relatively rare. Some of the traditions for transposition for higher brass instruments come out of the time that they were not fully chromatic, and different crooks were used to put them in the appropriate key. Trombones never had to do this since the slide made them chromatic. As far as brass bands go, the transposed treble clef for everything (except bass trombone and percussion) is a tradition that developed to allow players to be moved to another instrument with little fuss if the band needed them there. An extra cornet player might be asked to switch to euphonium, and be expected to be covering the part in a week or two - learning a new clef would slow down his progress on the new instrument. These are generalizations - I'm sure that there were other reasons that these traditions developed, but since they're there, it's a good idea for any serious trombone player to be familiar with bass, tenor and alto clefs, as well as treble in B flat and in C. Jim Scott Norbert Wegner wrote: >The standard tenor trombone is a Bb instrument BUT bass clef music for this >instrument is written in C (i.e. concert pitch). Why is that? All treble >clef music is transposed to the pitch of the instrument. Eg. French horn, >trumpets, saxes, clarinets. Why isn't bass clef music trasposed to the key >of the instrument just like it is for instruments playing treble clef? Why >are the low brass parts (trombone, euphonium, baritone, tuba) considered >non-transposing? This seems to be inconsistent with all instruments. > >I play a Bb trombone in a brass band where most of the music comes from the >Salvation Army. All music for all instruments is written in treble clef and >transposed to the pitch of the horns. This makes sense to me. The music is >also provided in bass clef BUT it is not transposed. This apparent double >standard has always confused me. Can anyone shed some light on this for me? >There has to be some history behind it. > >Norbert Wegner > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 23:21:22 -0800 From: Tom Izzo Subject: Re: Why non-transposing? Norbert, --- Norbert Wegner wrote: > The standard tenor trombone is a Bb instrument BUT > bass clef music for this > instrument is written in C (i.e. concert pitch). Why > is that? NOT just Bass Clef. Alto & Tenor Clef are also written at pitch. All treble > clef music is transposed to the pitch of the > instrument. Eg. French horn, > trumpets, saxes, clarinets. Not always. In Jazz & early orchestral music (J.S. Bach comes to mind), there are parts in C Treble clef for the Trombones. (also to for Celli & Bassoons). Why isn't bass clef > music trasposed to the key > of the instrument just like it is for instruments > playing treble clef? Why > are the low brass parts (trombone, euphonium, > baritone, tuba) considered > non-transposing? Tenor Trombones haven't always been in Bb, heck you can still get Tenors built in C. And of course no Altos are in Bb. This seems to be inconsistent with > all instruments. > > I play a Bb trombone in a brass band where most of > the music comes from the > Salvation Army. All music for all instruments is > written in treble clef and > transposed to the pitch of the horns. Not so. Most (tho not all) Bass Trombone parts & Timpani are written in C Bass Clef in the Brass Band tradition. This makes > sense to me. The music is > also provided in bass clef BUT it is not transposed. > This apparent double > standard has always confused me. Can anyone shed > some light on this for me? Richard Strauss (for Tenor Tuba/Euphonium), & some orchestral Bass Clarinet parts (e.g. Sorcerer's Apprentice) are written in Bb Bass Clef (transposed up a whole step, instead of a ninth). > There has to be some history behind it. There is. The Treble Clef parts in Brass Banding is tradition. The theory was that anyone could play any part (assuming Valve Trombones), with only the slide to learn if using a slide Trombone. It's not uncommon even today, of brass band personnel to play Eb Horn one year, Baritone Horn the next year, & possibly Flugelhorn the following year. But the Tubas in a sense, like the recorders, & even to a lessor extant Trombones, CAN be transposing instruments outside of the Brass Band. No we don't transpose the music, but to those of us multi-instrumentalists, we do, in a sense, transpose fingerings/slide positions. Eb Tubas, F Tubas, CC Tubas, BBb Tubas ALL read in concert pitch in Orchestral or Jazz lit, yet they don't finger the same notes the same way. Same is true of recorders The Piccolo, Soprano, Tenor, & Great Bass are in C, The Sopranino, Alto, Bass, & Contrabass are in F, But ALL Recorder music is in C Treble. When I play F Alto Trombone or Eb Alto Trombone, all of the positions are different for each note, then the C, Bb, or A Tenor Trombones?all the music is in concert pitch except brass bands,no matter which Clef is used. Clear as mud? Tom ===== Tom Izzo Principal Trombonist, Bristol Renaissance Faire Bass Trombonist, West Suburban Symphony Orchestra Alto/Tenor/Bass/Contrabass Trombones, Tubas, Bass Trumpet, Euphonium, Electric Bass, Percussion http://www.Geocities.com/Vienna/Studio/7875/ (630) 983-1985 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 23:28:40 -0800 From: Tom Izzo Subject: Re: Why non-transposing? Oh Contraire Jon, --- Jon Moeller wrote: > its because the trombone has never been pitched in > anything other than Bb Tenor Trombones have been/are pitched in Bb, C, & A. Alto Trombones are available in F, Eb, and at one time: D. Bass Trombones can be (basically) in Bb, C, F, Eb, D & G. Contrabass Trombones are available in F, Eb, CC,BBb, & AA. Sopranos are available in C, Bb, & at one time: G. Sopraninos are in Eb. Even the Piccolo Trombone is available in both Bb & C. Soprano, Sopranino & Piccolo Trombones are written in transposed treble clef because they are usually played by Trumpet players. All the others from Alto Trombones on down thru Contrabass are written in C (except in the brass banding) in all clefs used (except for a few rare exceptions in Bb Bass Clef=noted in aprevious message). Tom who HAS Trombones pitched in C, Bb, A, G, F, Eb......... ===== Tom Izzo Principal Trombonist, Bristol Renaissance Faire Bass Trombonist, West Suburban Symphony Orchestra Alto/Tenor/Bass/Contrabass Trombones, Tubas, Bass Trumpet, Euphonium, Electric Bass, Percussion http://www.Geocities.com/Vienna/Studio/7875/ (630) 983-1985 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 07:24:03 +0000 From: John Beers Subject: More brass-related than trombone I was watching a video of the Wiener Philharmoniker on TV tonight on which they were playing Strauss. They played the Blue Danube Waltz and the Radetzky march. The recording was made in 1999, according to the credits. The horn player seemed to have an extra crook attached to their horns, perhaps coming from the mouthpiece receiver, something that I had never seen before. Also, moving the topic to even more tangential areas, the oboist had an insert between his reed and the reed receiver, made of some sort of white, shiny material, perhaps plastic or ivory. What was the purpose of that, just out of curiosity? I realize that this might not be directly related to the trombone, but it relates to music and I have been trying to understand those playing inferior instruments ;) in order to complement my own playing and musicality. Thank you for your responses, -- John Beers Jr. Trombonist/ Bass Trombonist: Bristol Symphony Trinity College Jazz Band/ Jazz Combo City Lights Jazz Band Bristol Reunion Jazz Band New England Symphonic Band (Bristol, CT) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 23:42:24 -0800 From: Tom Izzo Subject: Re: More brass-related than trombone John, --- John Beers wrote: > I was watching a video of the Wiener Philharmoniker > on TV tonight on > which they were playing Strauss. They played the > Blue Danube Waltz and > the Radetzky march. The recording was made in 1999, > according to the > credits. The horn player seemed to have an extra > crook attached to their > horns, perhaps coming from the mouthpiece receiver, > something that I > had never seen before. Were they Natural Horns? Or Valved Horns? A lot of the European Hornists play Trimple Horns these days (F/Bb/F) as opposed to the one we're used to -Double Horns (F/Bb) Also, moving the topic to > even more tangential > areas, the oboist had an insert between his reed and > the reed receiver, > made of some sort of white, shiny material, perhaps > plastic or ivory. What > was the purpose of that, just out of curiosity? Could be several things, possibly playing an Oboe d'Caccia part on an orchestral Oboe (G part on a C instrument), or otherwise lowering the pitch for some reason. I didn't see it, so I don't know exactly. Tom ===== Tom Izzo Principal Trombonist, Bristol Renaissance Faire Bass Trombonist, West Suburban Symphony Orchestra Alto/Tenor/Bass/Contrabass Trombones, Tubas, Bass Trumpet, Euphonium, Electric Bass, Percussion http://www.Geocities.com/Vienna/Studio/7875/ (630) 983-1985 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 08:59:01 -0000 From: Edward Solomon Subject: Re: More brass-related than trombone John Beers wrote: > I was watching a video of the Wiener Philharmoniker > on TV tonight on > which they were playing Strauss. They played the > Blue Danube Waltz and > the Radetzky march. The recording was made in 1999, > according to the > credits. The horn player seemed to have an extra > crook attached to their > horns, perhaps coming from the mouthpiece receiver, > something that I > had never seen before. Tom Izzo replied: > Were they Natural Horns? Or Valved Horns? > A lot of the European Hornists play Trimple Horns > these days (F/Bb/F) as opposed to the one we're used > to -Double Horns (F/Bb) They were neither. The Vienna Phil mandates the use of the Vienna horn (with Vienna valves no less). The instrument is frequently to be seen crooked in different keys. It is about as close as you'll get with a modern instrument to the old days of hand horn playing. The Vienna instrument is notoriously difficult to play, being narrow bore, pitched only in F and having no high Bb tubing. John wrote: > Also, moving the topic to > even more tangential > areas, the oboist had an insert between his reed and > the reed receiver, > made of some sort of white, shiny material, perhaps > plastic or ivory. What > was the purpose of that, just out of curiosity? Tom replied: > Could be several things, possibly playing an Oboe > d'Caccia part on an orchestral Oboe (G part on a C > instrument), or otherwise lowering the pitch for some > reason. I didn't see it, so I don't know exactly. Similarly with the oboe, the Vienna Phil mandates the use of the Vienna oboe. The instrument has a very different look and feel to the English thumbplate or Continental conservatoire system oboes (my brother is an oboist!). It sounds, to my ear, as though they play with metal reeds as they have quite a plangent sound. It is interesting to note that with the trombone, they appear to be less strict in the Vienna Phil. Rudi Josel and Ian Bousfield both play on American instruments (Holton and Conn), though the rest of the section plays on German instruments. Other orchestras are far stricter. The Dresden Staatskapelle and the Leipzig Gewandhaus orchestras, for example, absolutely mandate the use of German "Konzertposaunen", though they, and other orchestras, will normally permit the use of an American trombone for auditions. To be playing in the orchetra, though, on principal trombone will require you to have German alto and tenor trombones and if you're (un)lucky enough to get the chairof "Wechselposaunist", you'll be needing German tenor and bass trombones, so you'd better have a healthy bank balance first! __________________________________________ Edward Solomon British Trombone Society Webmaster mailto:webmaster@trombone-society.org.uk Visit "The Trombonist Online" - the online magazine of the British Trombone Society http://www.trombone-society.org.uk __________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 09:03:27 -0000 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: [TROMBONE-L] - a little more--corrections From: > that's funny, I've always counted the chairs from the other direction! Well, that's logical. Chord notes are counted from the root (1) upwards. The bass 'bone mostly plays the root. Why not? A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 10:05:08 -0000 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: Why non-transposing? From: "Norbert Wegner" > The standard tenor trombone is a Bb instrument BUT bass clef music for this > instrument is written in C (i.e. concert pitch). Why is that? All treble > clef music is transposed to the pitch of the instrument. Eg. French horn, > trumpets, saxes, clarinets. Why isn't bass clef music trasposed to the key > of the instrument just like it is for instruments playing treble clef? Why > are the low brass parts (trombone, euphonium, baritone, tuba) considered > non-transposing? This seems to be inconsistent with all instruments. > > I play a Bb trombone in a brass band where most of the music comes from the > Salvation Army. All music for all instruments is written in treble clef and > transposed to the pitch of the horns. This makes sense to me. The music is > also provided in bass clef BUT it is not transposed. This apparent double > standard has always confused me. Can anyone shed some light on this for me? > There has to be some history behind it. Transposed parts in bass clef were tried by Wagner/Strauss, most notably for the Wagner Tuben, but also for Euph and Bass Clarinet. Sometimes called German Notation, it didn't catch on, probably because Wagner couldn't make up his mind what pitch his horns should be written in. French Notation (transposed treble clef) has now become the favoured notation, tho' I have seen present day Dutch band music that still provides for Olde German notation in Euph and Bass (tuba) parts. I have to say that I'm completely thrown whenever I have to read these. Having started as a treble clef player, when I started playing trombone, I transposed everything up a Major 9th from bass clef. This has become a subconscious thing for me now, which I don't need to think about (much like riding a bike, you don't forget). The problem arises when I have to do a double transposition, which means I have to consciously un-transpose the part before I can subconsciously re-transpose it. Finally, treble clef trombones in the British and Sally Army bands were an afterthought to bring them into line with the baritones and euphs. This made it easier for the director, who usually conducted from a cued Bb cornet part. The bass trombone (then pitched in G) escaped the change and remained un-transposed in bass clef, maybe because its part looked much the same as the Eb bass (apart from its key sig) when playing the same notes. The three 'bones originally used non-transposing Alto, Tenor and Bass clef, same as in orchestral scores of the period. I vote we keep bass clef 'bone parts in concert pitch. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 14:24:50 +0000 From: "J.c. Sherman" Subject: Re: Why non-transposing? Really? I have two in C. Plus there's been A, F, Eb, G, CC, BBb... Basses, since always far from standardized (even with the predominance in England of the G) have always been pitched in Concert pitch since "you never know what you're gonna get" And who's that guy with the valve trombone? It's in C?! Duke won't let you play that here. Sorry - weird morning. Happy New Year. J.c. > its because the trombone has never been pitched in anything other than Bb > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Norbert Wegner" > To: > Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 9:38 PM > Subject: [TBN-L] Why non-transposing? > > > > The standard tenor trombone is a Bb instrument BUT bass clef music for > this > > instrument is written in C (i.e. concert pitch). Why is that? All treble > > clef music is transposed to the pitch of the instrument. Eg. French horn, > > trumpets, saxes, clarinets. Why isn't bass clef music trasposed to the key > > of the instrument just like it is for instruments playing treble clef? Why > > are the low brass parts (trombone, euphonium, baritone, tuba) considered > > non-transposing? This seems to be inconsistent with all instruments. > > > > I play a Bb trombone in a brass band where most of the music comes from > the > > Salvation Army. All music for all instruments is written in treble clef > and > > transposed to the pitch of the horns. This makes sense to me. The music is > > also provided in bass clef BUT it is not transposed. This apparent double > > standard has always confused me. Can anyone shed some light on this for > me? > > There has to be some history behind it. > > > > Norbert Wegner ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 14:36:25 +0000 From: "J.c. Sherman" Subject: Re: Why non-transposing? We've heard everyone mention Strauss' transposing bass clef parts, but I swear I've run into some transposed French Saxhorn Basse and Tuba parts. Maybe too much Pepsi in college...? J.c. Sherman > From: "Norbert Wegner" > > > > The standard tenor trombone is a Bb instrument BUT bass clef music for > this > > instrument is written in C (i.e. concert pitch). Why is that? All treble > > clef music is transposed to the pitch of the instrument. Eg. French horn, > > trumpets, saxes, clarinets. Why isn't bass clef music trasposed to the key > > of the instrument just like it is for instruments playing treble clef? Why > > are the low brass parts (trombone, euphonium, baritone, tuba) considered > > non-transposing? This seems to be inconsistent with all instruments. > > > > I play a Bb trombone in a brass band where most of the music comes from > the > > Salvation Army. All music for all instruments is written in treble clef > and > > transposed to the pitch of the horns. This makes sense to me. The music is > > also provided in bass clef BUT it is not transposed. This apparent double > > standard has always confused me. Can anyone shed some light on this for > me? > > There has to be some history behind it. > > > Transposed parts in bass clef were tried by Wagner/Strauss, most notably for > the Wagner Tuben, but also for Euph and Bass Clarinet. Sometimes called > German Notation, it didn't catch on, probably because Wagner couldn't make > up his mind what pitch his horns should be written in. French Notation > (transposed treble clef) has now become the favoured notation, tho' I have > seen present day Dutch band music that still provides for Olde German > notation in Euph and Bass (tuba) parts. > > I have to say that I'm completely thrown whenever I have to read these. > Having started as a treble clef player, when I started playing trombone, I > transposed everything up a Major 9th from bass clef. This has become a > subconscious thing for me now, which I don't need to think about (much like > riding a bike, you don't forget). The problem arises when I have to do a > double transposition, which means I have to consciously un-transpose the > part before I can subconsciously re-transpose it. > > Finally, treble clef trombones in the British and Sally Army bands were an > afterthought to bring them into line with the baritones and euphs. This > made it easier for the director, who usually conducted from a cued Bb cornet > part. The bass trombone (then pitched in G) escaped the change and remained > un-transposed in bass clef, maybe because its part looked much the same as > the Eb bass (apart from its key sig) when playing the same notes. The three > 'bones originally used non-transposing Alto, Tenor and Bass clef, same as in > orchestral scores of the period. > > I vote we keep bass clef 'bone parts in concert pitch. > > A. > > Adrian Drover > ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk > Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 14:40:14 +0000 From: alan partis Subject: Re: Why non-transposing? At 02:24 PM 12/31/2002, you wrote: >Really? I have two in C. > >Plus there's been A, F, Eb, G, CC, BBb... OK, I'm on another planet here ... what does all this mean? On my "normal" tenor trombone, I play a middle Bb in 1st position and a A (440 Hz) in 2nd position. When I see a bass clef note sitting on top of the 5th line of the staff, I play a B. Now from that frame of reference, can someone give me an explanation of what it means to have a trombone that is pitched in C, and what exactly IS concert pitch? On a somewhat different question, why is the C major scale the 'basic' scale? Why not A since it is the start of the alphabet? Why aren't we all referencing middle A (440 Hz) as the starting point for everything? ______________________________________ alan partis, amateur bonehead louisville, ky ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 11:06:26 -0400 From: Craig Parmerlee Subject: Re: music stand light I wonder if the Concert Light is really bright enough for a macular degeneration problem. If it is, then that is definitely a good choice. I have made lights using white LEDs. The efficiency is spectacular (40 hours on a set of 3-AA batteries), but that's not enough light for this problem. Another alternative would be to use halogen flashlight lamps connected to a decent sized gel cell. I have used this sort of arrangement for cave lights. I think you could get about all the light you could want and a decent gel cell (say 11 amp hours) could give you many hours on a charge -- certainly enough to get through a couple of gigs. Put a quick disconnect on the wire and you could swap gel cells in an instant. Good luck, Craig At 10:41 PM 12/30/2002 -0700, David Oliver wrote: >I know some might thump on me for this, but if you've got macular >degeneration and need a rechargeable I would strongly recommend the >"Concert Light" by Lampcraft. Actually, they now sell the "Concert Light >II", which is now $120 including the case. I paid around $150 for all that >for my older model over two years ago. > >Obviously it is pricey, but often you get what you pay for. I've never had a >problem with it, and it puts out a bright, wide light for at least 3.5 hours >on one charge (a the high capacity Nickel Metal Hydride battery). It >literally lights the stands next to you if it is dark. The lamp has a 30,000 >hour life. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 15:39:53 -0000 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: Why non-transposing? From: "alan partis" > OK, I'm on another planet here ... what does all this mean? On my "normal" > tenor trombone, I play a middle Bb in 1st position and a A (440 Hz) in 2nd > position. When I see a bass clef note sitting on top of the 5th line of > the staff, I play a B. Now from that frame of reference, can someone give > me an explanation of what it means to have a trombone that is pitched in C, Well, to have a trombone pitched in C means it is two semitones shorter (or maybe 10 semitones longer) than one pitched in Bb. > and what exactly IS concert pitch? Sounding pitch. > On a somewhat different question, why is the C major scale the 'basic' > scale? Basic scale for whom? I would say the basic scale for a Bb trombone would be Bb. > Why not A since it is the start of the alphabet? Because you need a key sig. of 3 sharps to play in A, which is equivalent to 5 sharps for a Bb player. > Why aren't we all > referencing middle A (440 Hz) as the starting point for everything? Hhhhhhhrrrrrrruuuuuummmmmpppppphhhhh! Can someone else answer this. I want to start my New Year celebrationing. Where'sh the Guinnessh? A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 17:25:15 +0000 From: Daniel Pliskin Subject: Re: Why non-transposing? > >Tom >who HAS Trombones pitched in C, Bb, A, G, F, Eb......... > WhyÉÉ..TomÕs got so many trombones that he doesnÕt even bother with that tuning slides thingy. He just grabs another trombone. Right Tom? DanP _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_advancedjmf_3mf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 17:29:55 +0000 From: Daniel Pliskin Subject: Re: More brass-related than trombone John Beers, First off, GREAT name for a trombone player. >Also, moving the topic to even more tangential >areas, the oboist had an insert between his reed and the reed receiver, >made of some sort of white, shiny material, perhaps plastic or ivory. Are you sure it was an oboe and not an oboe de amor or an English horn? They both use a little crook, between the wooden part and the reed. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_addphotos_3mf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 17:45:36 +0000 From: Daniel Pliskin Subject: Re: More brass-related than trombone >Similarly with the oboe, the Vienna Phil mandates the use of the Vienna >oboe. The instrument has a very different look and feel to the English >thumbplate or Continental conservatoire system oboes (my brother is an >oboist!). It sounds, to my ear, as though they play with metal reeds >as >they have quite a plangent sound. Actually, oboe reeds are tied to a metal gadget, called a staple. ItÕs considered good form to wrap your reed thread all the way to the cork, so that the metal doesnÕt show. IÕve long given that practice up, but then, I also play jazz. As for the sound, if the reed was a shorter wider reed, like those used in shawms and bagpipes, the sound would be way louder. It would take a different staple/bocal, but thatÕs not a big deal. Also, if the reed was more of a French-type cut, the oboes could get considerably louder and the sound would be more nasal. I believe that itÕs only we Americans who have jumped on the John Mack bandwagon, and gone with those quiet, stuffy-sounding reeds (like I play). DanP _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_addphotos_3mf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 10:13:38 -0800 From: Gabriel Langfur Subject: Re: music stand light --- John McGrath wrote: > Does anyone on the list know of agood battery operated > light that is > available? Jack McGrath The Mighty Bright Stand Light (which is exactly the same thing as the Itty Bitty Book Light) works just fine, and it's so cheap - $9 - you could carry around 2 or 3 of them. The only drawback is that it uses 4 AA batteries, and you'll need to change them pretty often if you use it a lot. Gabe __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 13:18:22 -0500 From: JB Subject: Re: More brass-related than trombone Daniel Pliskin wrote: > John Beers, > > First off, GREAT name for a trombone player. > > >> Also, moving the topic to even more tangential >> areas, the oboist had an insert between his reed and the reed receiver, >> made of some sort of white, shiny material, perhaps plastic or ivory. > > > Are you sure it was an oboe and not an oboe de amor or an English horn? > They both use a little crook, between the wooden part and the reed. > > DanP I'm fairly sure. It wasn't a bocal, because it wasn't made of metal, and the reed went into it, rather than the reed going atop the insert. Also, the shape of the instrument was more like that of an oboe, rather than that of an english horn. Although I'm not very knowledgeable about the oboe d'amore, but I seem to recall that even that was slightly larger than the oboe and had a different bell end, though the audience did not get very many good views of the bell. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 10:25:58 -0800 From: Gabriel Langfur Subject: Re: Why non-transposing? --- "J.c. Sherman" wrote: > We've heard everyone mention Strauss' transposing bass > clef parts, but I swear > I've run into some transposed French Saxhorn Basse and > Tuba parts. Maybe too > much Pepsi in college...? No, you're right. The French Conservatoire bass trombone pieces, like the Castarede Fantasie Concertante, usually come with a part in Bass clef B-flat for saxhorn. Gabe __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 12:33:02 -0600 From: Mearl Danner Subject: Re: More brass-related than trombone Check this link. http://iwk.mdw.ac.at/Forschung/english/wrinst/ewroboe1.htm Mearl Danner Systems Programmer Samford University jmdanner@samford.edu www.samford.edu > -----Original Message----- > From: Trombones and related issues forum. > [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of JB > Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 12:18 PM > To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU > Subject: Re: [TBN-L] More brass-related than trombone > > > Daniel Pliskin wrote: > > > John Beers, > > > > First off, GREAT name for a trombone player. > > > > > >> Also, moving the topic to even more tangential > >> areas, the oboist had an insert between his reed and the reed > >> receiver, made of some sort of white, shiny material, > perhaps plastic > >> or ivory. > > > > > > Are you sure it was an oboe and not an oboe de amor or an English > > horn? They both use a little crook, between the wooden part and the > > reed. > > > > DanP > > > I'm fairly sure. It wasn't a bocal, because it wasn't made of > metal, and the reed went into it, rather than the reed going > atop the insert. Also, the shape of the instrument was more > like that of an oboe, rather than that of an english horn. > Although I'm not very knowledgeable about the oboe d'amore, > but I seem to recall that even that was slightly larger than > the oboe and had a different bell end, though the audience > did not get very many good views of the bell. > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 11:37:35 -0700 From: Steve Gamble Subject: Re: Why non-transposing? Happy New Year Adrian (and everyone else). Alan, As far as I know, we reference "A" because it's the first letter. It's a good note for the orchestral strings to tune to because they all have an open A string. They also all have an open D string. So I suppose that we could be tuning to a "D" in the orchestra. However, there is a tradition in string quartet playing that the cello's A string is likely to be the most stable of all the strings so the quartet will tune to the cello's A string. Maybe that has something to do with why we tune to an "A" instead of a "D." The above isn't very authoritative. The reason I wanted to have a go at an answer is so I could mention that our trombone middle "A" is A=220, not A=440. Maybe you know that already and I read you incorrectly. Steve Gamble, Librarian Tucson Symphony Orchestra 2175 N. 6th Ave. Tucson, AZ 85705 sgamble@tucsonsymphony.org 520-792-9155 x118 520-792-9314 fax 520-991-7056 cel -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of Adrian Drover Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 8:40 AM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Why non-transposing? From: "alan partis" > OK, I'm on another planet here ... what does all this mean? On my "normal" > tenor trombone, I play a middle Bb in 1st position and a A (440 Hz) in 2nd > position. When I see a bass clef note sitting on top of the 5th line of > the staff, I play a B. Now from that frame of reference, can someone give > me an explanation of what it means to have a trombone that is pitched in C, Well, to have a trombone pitched in C means it is two semitones shorter (or maybe 10 semitones longer) than one pitched in Bb. > and what exactly IS concert pitch? Sounding pitch. > On a somewhat different question, why is the C major scale the 'basic' > scale? Basic scale for whom? I would say the basic scale for a Bb trombone would be Bb. > Why not A since it is the start of the alphabet? Because you need a key sig. of 3 sharps to play in A, which is equivalent to 5 sharps for a Bb player. > Why aren't we all > referencing middle A (440 Hz) as the starting point for everything? Hhhhhhhrrrrrrruuuuuummmmmpppppphhhhh! Can someone else answer this. I want to start my New Year celebrationing. Where'sh the Guinnessh? A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 19:12:34 +0000 From: Daniel Pliskin Subject: Re: More brass-related than trombone ScientistsÉ.. Here, let us look at the difference in sound, between the two oboes. Look at sound? Yes, I know. IÕm one of those sorts, but the idea of looking at a sound just doesnÕt cut it with me. Perhaps thatÕs why I got out of sound and into video, bio-med, etc. Now, if we could just keep those video monitors and TVs quiet, so we didn't have to hear what we're looking at. DanP >From: Mearl Danner >Reply-To: Mearl Danner >To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU >Subject: Re: [TBN-L] More brass-related than trombone >Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 12:33:02 -0600 > >Check this link. > >http://iwk.mdw.ac.at/Forschung/english/wrinst/ewroboe1.htm > >Mearl Danner >Systems Programmer >Samford University >jmdanner@samford.edu >www.samford.edu > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Trombones and related issues forum. > > [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of JB > > Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 12:18 PM > > To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU > > Subject: Re: [TBN-L] More brass-related than trombone > > > > > > Daniel Pliskin wrote: > > > > > John Beers, > > > > > > First off, GREAT name for a trombone player. > > > > > > > > >> Also, moving the topic to even more tangential > > >> areas, the oboist had an insert between his reed and the reed > > >> receiver, made of some sort of white, shiny material, > > perhaps plastic > > >> or ivory. > > > > > > > > > Are you sure it was an oboe and not an oboe de amor or an English > > > horn? They both use a little crook, between the wooden part and the > > > reed. > > > > > > DanP > > > > > > I'm fairly sure. It wasn't a bocal, because it wasn't made of > > metal, and the reed went into it, rather than the reed going > > atop the insert. Also, the shape of the instrument was more > > like that of an oboe, rather than that of an english horn. > > Although I'm not very knowledgeable about the oboe d'amore, > > but I seem to recall that even that was slightly larger than > > the oboe and had a different bell end, though the audience > > did not get very many good views of the bell. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_eliminateviruses_3mf ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 14:36:44 -0500 From: JB Subject: Re: More brass-related than trombone I believe you're right, that what I saw were, in fact, Viennese oboes and horns. For some reason, the upper portion of the one I swaw was white rather than black grenadilla, but the same was very similar to that on the page. Thank you all for your help, it piqued my curiosity. Mearl Danner wrote: >Check this link. > >http://iwk.mdw.ac.at/Forschung/english/wrinst/ewroboe1.htm > >Mearl Danner >Systems Programmer >Samford University >jmdanner@samford.edu >www.samford.edu > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Trombones and related issues forum. >>[mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of JB >>Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 12:18 PM >>To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU >>Subject: Re: [TBN-L] More brass-related than trombone >> >> >>Daniel Pliskin wrote: >> >> >> >>>John Beers, >>> >>>First off, GREAT name for a trombone player. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Also, moving the topic to even more tangential >>>>areas, the oboist had an insert between his reed and the reed >>>>receiver, made of some sort of white, shiny material, >>>> >>>> >>perhaps plastic >> >> >>>>or ivory. >>>> >>>> >>>Are you sure it was an oboe and not an oboe de amor or an English >>>horn? They both use a little crook, between the wooden part and the >>>reed. >>> >>>DanP >>> >>> >>I'm fairly sure. It wasn't a bocal, because it wasn't made of >>metal, and the reed went into it, rather than the reed going >>atop the insert. Also, the shape of the instrument was more >>like that of an oboe, rather than that of an english horn. >>Although I'm not very knowledgeable about the oboe d'amore, >>but I seem to recall that even that was slightly larger than >>the oboe and had a different bell end, though the audience >>did not get very many good views of the bell. >> >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 15:24:09 -0500 From: Don Subject: Re: [TROMBONE-L] - a little more--corrections Sorry to add to the mix, but "cemetery" is spelled with all "e" 's. And as to those long names. In our cemetery it's permitted as long as you pay $420.00 per 4' wide space, and pay the engraver $4.00 per letter after the first 20. Be our guest, we can use the money! I enjoy reading this list, especially from Alan. Don (an OLD bonist) >----------------------------- > >Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 13:52:14 EST >From: Beldon Wade >Subject: Re: [TROMBONE-L] - a little more--corrections > >Did Ulm have to expand the cemetary to accomodate a tombstone large enough to >have all those names on it? > >beldon wade >------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 16:48:23 -0600 From: Jay Heltzer Subject: Re: Why non-transposing? alan partis wrote: > On a somewhat different question, why is the C major scale the 'basic' > scale? Why not A since it is the start of the alphabet? Why aren't we all > referencing middle A (440 Hz) as the starting point for everything? > Although you have a good theory with this, trying to explain physics to younger players learning the scales is quite the challenge. Furthermore, if I were to try to explain the physics of it all, my brain would melt into cheese whiz. I guess that C is the basic scale (other than Bb) since its the easiest key signature to remember and deal with. However, I wish I knew a cure for Bb-itis. You know, the dreaded disease that causes people (typically in the 11-18 year old group) to play any piece of music in Bb, despite the number or lack of accidentals - which were put there on purpose - in the key signature. Wishing a happy and healthy new year to everyone on the list! Jay Heltzer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 02:14:40 +0100 From: Simon Bailey Subject: happy new year well, this may be early for the americans and late for everyone else, but all the same, HAPPY NEW YEAR ONE AND ALL. may 2003 bring more luck and joy than the preceding years and may you all stay in good health. good night and good luck, simon. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 01:50:08 +0000 From: Daniel Pliskin Subject: Re: happy new year Should old acquaintance be forgot? Well...sometimes. DanP >From: Simon Bailey >Reply-To: Simon Bailey >To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU >Subject: [TBN-L] happy new year >Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 02:14:40 +0100 > >well, this may be early for the americans and late for everyone else, >but all the same, > >HAPPY NEW YEAR ONE AND ALL. > >may 2003 bring more luck and joy than the preceding years and may you >all stay in good health. > >good night and good luck, >simon. _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 01:47:54 -0000 From: Keith Marr Subject: Happy New Year Happy New Year to all listers. Here's to a great 2003. I speak at a moment when Europe has finally achieved it's ambition -- we're a year ahead of the US for the next 3-4 hours. Savour it while you can guys! Trouble is those damned Aussies beat us to it by absolutely ages. Do they have to win at everything?!?!?!?!?? On the trombone front I have just purchased, and await delivery of, a silverplated narrow bore Bb trombone made by AM Philpot of Luton. Apparently the company, which still exists and is into chrome plating these days, made trombones between 1915 and 1950. Has anyone else ever heard of them? I hadn't and I only live 15 minute's drive from Luton, here in Bedfordshire, UK. Also just got myself an HN White King trombone serial number 98xxx. That makes it about 1925-27. It says on the leadpipe made on 17 May 1910 (it also says medium bore, low pitch, so heaven knows what small bore was then!), but I guess that means the date of the design unless UMI's serial number guide is seriously wrong. Beautiful bell engraving, and easy to see why they had such a reputation by the 60s when they became King. Although the bell only flares out to about six inches the bell opening is actually wider than my modern large bore tenor. The result is that although it's only a narrowbore it blows really loud. You can get that terrific jazz-age roar with it. Can't wait to get a combo gig! ------------------------ Keith in Bb/F/D www.allthingsmusic.co.uk/entertainers/keith.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 18:05:12 -0800 From: Larry White Subject: Re: More brass-related than trombone Speaking of Bass Trombones - I saw an ad recently about Rath trombones and their Bass Trombone. Has anybody have one or ever played one? I have been a Besson / Boosey person and presently have a Sovereign 943 double plug. Bought the original design they put out, and had it stolen. Replaced with the open wrap with regular valves, as it was all that was readily available where I live when I replaced my original Wicks model. If I wanted to get something else, I would have had to put up 50% of the price (up front) and the balance when it came in, no return, no experimentation. Having never had any experience with Conn, King or other American instruments, I couldn't bring myself about to go another route! L White Edward Solomon wrote: > It is interesting to note that with the trombone, they appear to be less > strict in the Vienna Phil. Rudi Josel and Ian Bousfield both play on > American instruments (Holton and Conn), though the rest of the section plays > on German instruments. Other orchestras are far stricter. The Dresden > Staatskapelle and the Leipzig Gewandhaus orchestras, for example, absolutely > mandate the use of German "Konzertposaunen", though they, and other > orchestras, will normally permit the use of an American trombone for > auditions. To be playing in the orchetra, though, on principal trombone will > require you to have German alto and tenor trombones and if you're (un)lucky > enough to get the chairof "Wechselposaunist", you'll be needing German tenor > and bass trombones, so you'd better have a healthy bank balance first! > __________________________________________ > > Edward Solomon > British Trombone Society Webmaster > mailto:webmaster@trombone-society.org.uk > > Visit "The Trombonist Online" - > the online magazine of the > British Trombone Society > http://www.trombone-society.org.uk > __________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 02:39:03 -0000 From: Keith Marr Subject: Re: More brass-related than trombone I've not had any personal experience of play Raths, but I do know that they are now the preferred choice of the British Military (last time I asked them about lead times for their 2-valve bass they'd just taken an order for nine from the Army!), so they can't be too shabby. The new 2-valve dependent bass with tuning in the slide sounds really interesting. It's due out early this year. I would have thought that a bespoke construction company like Rath would have the facility to let you go in and try stuff on the premises, although I agree it's better if you can get things on approval. Considering the amount we bassers are expected to shell out these days I don't regard that as unreasonable. Always worth asking them anyway. Depends where you are too I suppose, Raths are in Huddersfield. Nostalgia time: I remember the original Sovereign double plug. I think it must have been one of the very earliest independent 2-valvers. I sticks in my mind that Ray Premru (genuflect, genuflect, genuflect) was involved along with Denis W. He certainly helped promote it, I remember the ad material at the time. Interestingly, in this age of Greenhoe brackets, Edwards Bullet Braces and Ergobones, the original Sovereign was built with a bracket as standard fitting wasn't it. Why didn't the competition realise there was a problem that this addressed I wonder? ------------------------ Keith in Bb/F/D www.allthingsmusic.co.uk/entertainers/keith.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry White" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 2:05 AM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] More brass-related than trombone Speaking of Bass Trombones - I saw an ad recently about Rath trombones and their Bass Trombone. Has anybody have one or ever played one? I have been a Besson / Boosey person and presently have a Sovereign 943 double plug. Bought the original design they put out, and had it stolen. Replaced with the open wrap with regular valves, as it was all that was readily available where I live when I replaced my original Wicks model. If I wanted to get something else, I would have had to put up 50% of the price (up front) and the balance when it came in, no return, no experimentation. Having never had any experience with Conn, King or other American instruments, I couldn't bring myself about to go another route! L White ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 19:03:23 -0800 From: jimandcat@JUNO.COM Subject: Re: Further Destruction of a Noble Profession is Attempted Great post sabutin, and I have playing road shows for over 25 years, can't imagine what is like on Broadway. But I do have a few differences of opinion. You said >"I mean no disrespect to those who do shows as a regular thing...I mean, I've spent my share of time in the pit myself...but when you get right down to it, 99% of Broadway playing (and the entire Broadway musical experience...the actors, singers, dancers, stage management. etc...) IS an attempt to roboticize human beings." I have had that feeling myself at times. But, the performance of the evening is a special event for the people who have purchased tickets for that particular performance. They probably have planned that evening for months, thought about how to afford it, had a special dinner, and come to the theater expecting a fine performance by professionals. Do they expect to understand your angst, or should they? I think not. They should only be delivered the best performance expectable by all the professionals involved, including the musicians. In the hundreds of performances of professional musicals on the road (I am in a small town market), the emphasis was that the orchestra do the best they can to enhance the stage. Not necessarily be "robots". Although, I know what you mean. You have to reproduce the Broadway experience without an individual interpretation. To me, that means you are a professional musician. You have a problem with that, cut your own CD as an individual artist and do your own thing. >Play the exact same thing the exact same way night after night after night after night, day after day month after year after decade...??? It makes perfect sense for the producers to go to virtual-whatever-they-can-get-their-hands-on, because the shows are not really "live" anyway. They are just an attempt to extort a few hundred dollars per couple from an overpaid upper-middle class audience and fool them into thinking they are seeing something real and exciting. W/very few exceptions, the musicians are bored, the performers are cynical at best, and the audience obviously wouldn't know the difference between a great performer and a total hack Very True. So how do we educate an audience to know the difference between great performers and hacks:? And, similarly, how can we convince musicians not to be so cynical. Every event of music is a moment in the present. Whether or not you are bored with the experience is inconsequential and probably detrimental to the event. If you are bored, get out of the business. No one will like the music of some one bored with their art. C'mon, think of all the great artists (any instrument) of this past century. I have had the privilege of knowing a few, as you have. They one and all have been excited about what they do. Period. Do not read anymore into it. They love what they do. If you don't, I would suggest you do something else. Life is too short to spend time doing something that pisses you off. You went on to describe a personal performance. Eloquently. And then you said, . >The "noble profession" is being a musician...NOT being a show musician or a club date musician or a studio musician... I agree. I hate categories of all types -- conservatives, liberals, republicans , democrats, blacks, whites, legit players, jazzers, etc. I played in a South American country for a year in an orchestra. I was rarely referred to as a "musico" (musician). Our title was 'professor', professor but meaning more than the standard title applied to college teachers, it had the meaning of "one who is dedicated to the profession". And we did not "play" music, the verb was "tocar"-- to touch, to bring in to life from a musical instrument a magical experience. Think about it. Jim Prindle San Diego ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 21:30:15 -0600 From: Corliss Subject: Re: Musical Influences I started with the Salvation Army. Richard Coirliss ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Marr" To: Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 10:27 AM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Musical Influences > > I find it encouraging to read about all the musicians who got their start > in > > a church. > > Following on from this, I wonder just how many brass players started in the > Salvation Army. Yes, I did! I remember that pre-war S&A factory peashooter > with some affection, even though it was tough trying to get any tone from > it. > > Other musical influences? In no particular order: Tamla Mowtown, > Tchaikovsky, Dvorak, Arvo Part, Alan Hovhaness, Don Lusher, Dudley Bright, > Denis Wick, little cup cakes (. . . er no, error crept in there!), > Guinness, God, Steve Reich, and, of course, JJ. > > Also, without wanting to sound like a creep, this list is a major influence > now. I didn't play for about eight years and joined up when I started > playing again. This very lively and knowledgeable list brought me up to date > with issues very quickly. > ------------------------ > Keith in Bb/F/D > www.allthingsmusic.co.uk/entertainers/keith.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 03:17:26 -0000 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: Happy New Year From: "Keith Marr" > Happy New Year to all listers. Here's to a great 2003. I speak at a moment > when Europe has finally achieved it's ambition -- we're a year ahead of the > US for the next 3-4 hours. Savour it while you can guys! > > Trouble is those damned Aussies beat us to it by absolutely ages. Do they > have to win at everything?!?!?!?!?? Isn't it strange how Hawaii sees the sun before Sydney, yet has to wait a whole day before it can celebrate the new year? Happy New Year to all at 3.15am Scottish time. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 19:51:41 -0800 From: Andrew Michael Subject: Re: music stand light At 10:13 AM -0800 12/31/02, Gabriel Langfur wrote: > >The Mighty Bright Stand Light (which is exactly the same >thing as the Itty Bitty Book Light) works just fine, and >it's so cheap - $9 - you could carry around 2 or 3 of them. >The only drawback is that it uses 4 AA batteries, and >you'll need to change them pretty often if you use it a >lot. I've used both Itty Bitty Book Lights and the Lampcraft Concertlight. If the Itty Bitty Book Light provides enough light for you and you use rechargeable batteries with it, then its great and cheap. However, if you use it a lot and use disposable batteries it will wind up costing more than the Concertlight over the long term. They also provide less light and less even light than the Concertlight. So, depending on your eyes and how you want to spread out the cost the choice will change. But, if you have the bucks to spend upfront and want really good light, then the Concertlight is far better. If you buy 3 or more you also get a discount. We just did a group order for our orchestra. Contact them if you are going to order more than 10 as the discount will increase. Plus, last night the Concertlight got me through 2 power outages while practicing! And both times I used it to bring light to my wife, the power came back on as soon as I got to her. So, apparently it has some magical powers over Pacific Gas and Electric too! :-) Cheers, Andy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 20:13:19 -0800 From: Larry White Subject: Re: More brass-related than trombone You have that right Keith. I enjoyed the trigger set-up much better with my original instrument, and the bracket to protect the valves was a much admired piece of the instrument. Why they didn't put it on the new instrument is a mystery to me as well. As you might not have remembered me from previous correspondence, I live in Vancouver BC, Canada. (On the extreme west coast of our vast country.) We are isolated somewhat and central Canadians (or as they are known in east side of Canada, Upper Canadians! forget that we are really still part of the country at this point in time at the least!) Oh, there was a 'bass trombone' with just an F Trigger and an oversized tenor bell on it that I could have purchased. Once you have used a double plug, independant, there in no going back, at least in my mind. Interesting what you say about Rath. Reading my Brit Bandsman, there is a full page ad on the back page of the latest issue, from Rosehill and they talk about Rath bones. That is what twigged my curiosity. Now I have to find their website. Rosehill has no info on theirs. All the best in '03. (I guess it is the 'New Year already. It is 8:10 pm N Y 's Eve right now where I live. Take care. Larry White Keith Marr wrote: > I've not had any personal experience of play Raths, but I do know that they > are now the preferred choice of the British Military (last time I asked them > about lead times for their 2-valve bass they'd just taken an order for nine > from the Army!), so they can't be too shabby. The new 2-valve dependent bass > with tuning in the slide sounds really interesting. It's due out early this > year. > > I would have thought that a bespoke construction company like Rath would > have the facility to let you go in and try stuff on the premises, although I > agree it's better if you can get things on approval. Considering the amount > we bassers are expected to shell out these days I don't regard that as > unreasonable. Always worth asking them anyway. Depends where you are too I > suppose, Raths are in Huddersfield. > > Nostalgia time: > I remember the original Sovereign double plug. I think it must have been one > of the very earliest independent 2-valvers. I sticks in my mind that Ray > Premru (genuflect, genuflect, genuflect) was involved along with Denis W. He > certainly helped promote it, I remember the ad material at the time. > > Interestingly, in this age of Greenhoe brackets, Edwards Bullet Braces and > Ergobones, the original Sovereign was built with a bracket as standard > fitting wasn't it. Why didn't the competition realise there was a problem > that this addressed I wonder? > ------------------------ > Keith in Bb/F/D > www.allthingsmusic.co.uk/entertainers/keith.htm > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Larry White" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 2:05 AM > Subject: Re: [TBN-L] More brass-related than trombone > > Speaking of Bass Trombones - I saw an ad recently about Rath trombones and > their Bass Trombone. Has anybody have one or ever played one? > > I have been a Besson / Boosey person and presently have a Sovereign 943 > double plug. Bought the original design they put out, and had it stolen. > Replaced with the open wrap with regular valves, as it was all that was > readily available > where I live when I replaced my original Wicks model. > > If I wanted to get something else, I would have had to put up 50% of the > price (up front) and the balance when it came in, no return, no > experimentation. Having never had any experience with Conn, King or other > American instruments, I couldn't bring myself about to go another route! > > L White ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 20:17:43 -0800 From: Larry White Subject: Re: Happy New Year Sort of like the 'unusual situation here in Canada. Newfoundland is always 1/2 hour ahead of everybody. The CBC announcers always say. it in 9:00 local time; and 9:30 in Newfoundland. Or they will say it is 20 mins after the hour and 10 mins before the hour in NFLD. I am still in 2002 when I received your message and am sending this, so you can have a double good New Year!! All the best, Larry White Adrian Drover wrote: > From: "Keith Marr" > > > Happy New Year to all listers. Here's to a great 2003. I speak at a moment > > when Europe has finally achieved it's ambition -- we're a year ahead of > the > > US for the next 3-4 hours. Savour it while you can guys! > > > > Trouble is those damned Aussies beat us to it by absolutely ages. Do they > > have to win at everything?!?!?!?!?? > > Isn't it strange how Hawaii sees the sun before Sydney, yet has to wait a > whole day before it can celebrate the new year? > > Happy New Year to all at 3.15am Scottish time. > > A. > > Adrian Drover > ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk > Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 20:19:30 -0800 From: Larry White Subject: Re: Musical Influences Likewise here! I learned to play my own G Trom using the Army's red 'self tutor' book. I still have my Imperial G with the original handle. Have a very good New Year Larry White Corliss wrote: > I started with the Salvation Army. > > Richard Coirliss > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Keith Marr" > To: > Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 10:27 AM > Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Musical Influences > > > > I find it encouraging to read about all the musicians who got their > start > > in > > > a church. > > > > Following on from this, I wonder just how many brass players started in > the > > Salvation Army. Yes, I did! I remember that pre-war S&A factory peashooter > > with some affection, even though it was tough trying to get any tone from > > it. > > > > Other musical influences? In no particular order: Tamla Mowtown, > > Tchaikovsky, Dvorak, Arvo Part, Alan Hovhaness, Don Lusher, Dudley Bright, > > Denis Wick, little cup cakes (. . . er no, error crept in there!), > > Guinness, God, Steve Reich, and, of course, JJ. > > > > Also, without wanting to sound like a creep, this list is a major > influence > > now. I didn't play for about eight years and joined up when I started > > playing again. This very lively and knowledgeable list brought me up to > date > > with issues very quickly. > > ------------------------ > > Keith in Bb/F/D > > www.allthingsmusic.co.uk/entertainers/keith.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 22:46:45 -0700 From: James Scott Subject: Re: Musical Influences I'm another one who had an SA start. The Calgary Philharmonic section (plus our best sub) played some Christmas carols for the Army on their kettles a couple of weeks ago - it was a blast, esp. since two of us had our start with SA bands. It's an hour or so before New Years here - but I'll wish everyone the best of the season anyway! Happy New Year! Jim Scott Corliss wrote: >I started with the Salvation Army. > >Richard Coirliss > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Keith Marr" >To: >Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 10:27 AM >Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Musical Influences > > > > >>>I find it encouraging to read about all the musicians who got their >>> >>> >start > > >>in >> >> >>>a church. >>> >>> >>Following on from this, I wonder just how many brass players started in >> >> >the > > >>Salvation Army. Yes, I did! I remember that pre-war S&A factory peashooter >>with some affection, even though it was tough trying to get any tone from >>it. >> >>Other musical influences? In no particular order: Tamla Mowtown, >>Tchaikovsky, Dvorak, Arvo Part, Alan Hovhaness, Don Lusher, Dudley Bright, >>Denis Wick, little cup cakes (. . . er no, error crept in there!), >>Guinness, God, Steve Reich, and, of course, JJ. >> >>Also, without wanting to sound like a creep, this list is a major >> >> >influence > > >>now. I didn't play for about eight years and joined up when I started >>playing again. This very lively and knowledgeable list brought me up to >> >> >date > > >>with issues very quickly. >>------------------------ >>Keith in Bb/F/D >>www.allthingsmusic.co.uk/entertainers/keith.htm >> >> ------------------------------ End of TROMBONE-L Digest - 30 Dec 2002 to 31 Dec 2002 (#2003-1) ***************************************************************