Subject: TROMBONE-L Digest - 28 Dec 2002 to 29 Dec 2002 (#2002-169) Date: Monday, December 30, 2002 12:00 AM From: Automatic digest processor Reply-To: "Trombones and related issues forum." To: Recipients of TROMBONE-L digests There are 37 messages totalling 1891 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. salaried jazz orchestras (3) 2. Prime Slide Design Bass Bone MPC 3. Fwd: Re: [TBN-L] Musical Influences-a little more. 4. [TROMBONE-L] - a little more--corrections (16) 5. first gig (2) 6. Further Destruction of a Noble Profession is Attempted (5) 7. first gig - Crumhorn (5) 8. Jazz Music and Hearing Loss 9. advice on in-ear monitoring systems? (2) 10. De Meij Conducted Denver Concert Band ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 03:54:44 -0600 From: Jeff Albert Subject: salaried jazz orchestras The following link is to an article in the New Orleans Times-Picayune. It reminded me of recent repertory orchestra and "treat big bands like symphonies" conversations we have had. http://www.nola.com/archives/t-p/index.ssf?/newsstory/jazzorch27_3.html Jeff Albert www.jeffalbert.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 06:21:17 -0600 From: Charles Levine Subject: Prime Slide Design Bass Bone MPC (Dan Levine asked me to foward this to the list after I lent him my = Prime Slide MPC. I thought it was great. I bought mine feom Woodwind and = Brasswind) =20 This is the best designed bass trombone mouthpiece I have ever played. = I'm using the "A" rim and a 3 cup. It's a great match for my Holton = 185E.=20 Usually when a mouthpiece is this efficient, it is at the expense of a = good sound. But in this case, that's not true. Right away, my = flexibility and attack improved, and I love the sound. AMAZING!!! Even = though it's considerably bigger than what I've been using, the rim is so = well designed, it doesn't feel that big. Section-mate Chris Olness in = The Producers pit who plays a Shilke 60 on a Bach/Shires tried it out, = and used it for the entire 2nd act. I had to pry it from his hands..... = Congratulations Mike Suter, on a fantastic mouthpiece design! Dan Levine ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 08:32:44 -0500 From: Lisa & Patrick Bates Subject: Re: salaried jazz orchestras Looks like it's going to be a lot of fun. Only wish I lived a little closer! ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Albert To: Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 4:54 AM Subject: [TBN-L] salaried jazz orchestras > The following link is to an article in the New Orleans Times-Picayune. > It reminded me of recent repertory orchestra and "treat big bands like > symphonies" conversations we have had. > > http://www.nola.com/archives/t-p/index.ssf?/newsstory/jazzorch27_3.html > > > Jeff Albert > > www.jeffalbert.com > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 13:34:17 -0000 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [TBN-L] Musical Influences-a little more. From: "Tom Izzo" Subject: [TBN-L] Fwd: Re: [TBN-L] Musical Influences-a little more. > OOps........... > Should be "your" You're sure? Not Yaw, not Yore? A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 13:37:41 -0000 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: [TROMBONE-L] - a little more--corrections From: "Chris McClure" > According to some emails I received, I hope I have provided a lot of humor > for the group! Nah, humor's not allowed on this list. Humour's OK tho'. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 08:49:56 -0600 From: "Richard Z. Johnson" Subject: Re: salaried jazz orchestras I can't get the article via the link. How else can I get it? -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of Jeff Albert Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 3:55 AM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: [TBN-L] salaried jazz orchestras The following link is to an article in the New Orleans Times-Picayune. It reminded me of recent repertory orchestra and "treat big bands like symphonies" conversations we have had. http://www.nola.com/archives/t-p/index.ssf?/newsstory/jazzorch27_3.html Jeff Albert www.jeffalbert.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 11:26:17 EST From: MikeSuter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: [TROMBONE-L] - a little more--corrections << Nah, humor's not allowed on this list. Humour's OK tho'. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk >> Shouldn't that be "Drouver" then? MS ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 17:17:24 -0000 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: [TROMBONE-L] - a little more--corrections From: Re: << Nah, humor's not allowed on this list. Humour's OK tho'. > Shouldn't that be "Drouver" then? No my name's really Adrian Yeo-Izzo-Waage-Dyess-Suter, but I changed it less I was suspected of being the list troll. Not only that, but everyone fell on the floor in uncontrollable convulsions whenever I announced myself. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 11:36:17 -0600 From: Phil Brink Subject: Re: [TROMBONE-L] - a little more--corrections Saying that name would cause ANYONE to fall over - from mouth fatigue! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Drover" To: Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 11:17 AM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] [TROMBONE-L] - a little more--corrections > From: > > Re: << Nah, humor's not allowed on this list. Humour's OK tho'. > > > Shouldn't that be "Drouver" then? > > > No my name's really Adrian Yeo-Izzo-Waage-Dyess-Suter, but I changed it less > I was suspected of being the list troll. Not only that, but everyone fell > on the floor in uncontrollable convulsions whenever I announced myself. > > A. > > Adrian Drover > ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk > Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 12:45:48 -0500 From: Dale Cruse Subject: Re: [TROMBONE-L] - a little more--corrections > No my name's really Adrian Yeo-Izzo-Waage-Dyess-Suter > Adrian Drover Which of course begs the question, "Why is it the world never remembered the name of Johann Gambolputty de von Ausfernschplendenschlittercrasscrenbonfrieddiggerdangledunglebursteinvonknac kerthrasherapplebangerhorowitzticolensicgranderknottyspelltinklegrandlichgru mblemeyerspelterwasserkŸrstlichhimbleeisenbahnwagengutenabendbitteeinenŸrnbu rgerbratwustlegerspurtenmitzweimacheluberhundsfutgumberabershšnendankerkalbs fleischmittlerraucher von Hautkopft of Ulm?" ---- Dale Cruse www.dalecruse.com Setting you up for online success. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 18:02:17 -0000 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: [TROMBONE-L] - a little more--corrections From: "Phil Brink" > Saying that name would cause ANYONE to fall over - from mouth fatigue! Is that the same condition that bass 'bonists suffer from playing above the staff? A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 18:11:09 -0000 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: [TROMBONE-L] - a little more--corrections From: "Dale Cruse" > Which of course begs the question, "Why is it the world never remembered the > name of Johann Gambolputty de von > Ausfernschplendenschlittercrasscrenbonfrieddiggerdangledunglebursteinvonknac > kerthrasherapplebangerhorowitzticolensicgranderknottyspelltinklegrandlichgru > mblemeyerspelterwasserkŸrstlichhimbleeisenbahnwagengutenabendbitteeinenŸrnbu > rgerbratwustlegerspurtenmitzweimacheluberhundsfutgumberabershšnendankerkalbs > fleischmittlerraucher von Hautkopft of Ulm?" Uh,...................Joe who? A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 12:34:07 -0600 From: Phil Brink Subject: Re: [TROMBONE-L] - a little more--corrections >From playing anywhere - even pubs while drinking Guinness! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Drover" To: "Phil Brink" ; Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 12:02 PM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] [TROMBONE-L] - a little more--corrections > > From: "Phil Brink" > > > > Saying that name would cause ANYONE to fall over - from mouth fatigue! > > > Is that the same condition that bass 'bonists suffer from playing above the > staff? > > A. > > Adrian Drover > ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk > Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 17:49:47 -0000 From: Keith Marr Subject: Re: [TROMBONE-L] - a little more--corrections Would he by any chance be related to Heinrich Gambolputty de von Ausfernschplendenschlittercrasscrenbonfrieddiggerdangledunglebursteinvonknac kerthrasherapplebangerhorowitzticolensicgranderknottyspelltinklegrandlichgru mblemeyerspelterwasserkŸrstlichhimbleeisenbahnwagengutenabendbitteeinenŸrnbu rgerbratwustlegerspurtenmitzweimacheluberhundsfutgumberabershšnendankerkalbs fleischmittlerraucher von Hautkopft of Ulm? ------------------------ Keith in Bb/F/D www.allthingsmusic.co.uk/entertainers/keith.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dale Cruse" To: Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 5:45 PM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] [TROMBONE-L] - a little more--corrections > No my name's really Adrian Yeo-Izzo-Waage-Dyess-Suter > Adrian Drover Which of course begs the question, "Why is it the world never remembered the name of Johann Gambolputty de von Ausfernschplendenschlittercrasscrenbonfrieddiggerdangledunglebursteinvonknac kerthrasherapplebangerhorowitzticolensicgranderknottyspelltinklegrandlichgru mblemeyerspelterwasserkŸrstlichhimbleeisenbahnwagengutenabendbitteeinenŸrnbu rgerbratwustlegerspurtenmitzweimacheluberhundsfutgumberabershšnendankerkalbs fleischmittlerraucher von Hautkopft of Ulm?" ---- Dale Cruse www.dalecruse.com Setting you up for online success. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 13:52:14 EST From: Beldon Wade Subject: Re: [TROMBONE-L] - a little more--corrections Did Ulm have to expand the cemetary to accomodate a tombstone large enough to have all those names on it? beldon wade ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 18:56:51 +0000 From: robert.osterlund@ATTBI.COM Subject: first gig Folks: Okay, so I survived my first "gig" earlier this morning. I played a sort of continuo to the piece "Orientis Partibus" with my recorder group at a local church. (We played a mix of recorders, crumhorns, percussion, and sackbut.) We played the piece at a fast tempo, which presented a real challenge for me. For an extra challenge, someone decided that we should process into the church while playing (in between singing the verses). So, I had to play the piece from memory while marching. My wife had attached red ribbons to the front and back slides--a touch of festiveness, but a bit of a distraction. It went very well, all things considered. On the final run through, I took a chance and played the melody. I mangled the middle measure (playing from memory, mind you), but nobody really noticed. The good news is that I played well enough to be invited to play jaunty Renaissance pieces with the group in the future. I passed my "audition"! YES!!! Happy New Year to all, and especially to my fellow trombonists/sackbutists! I wouldn't have gotten this far without you. Berto -- robert.osterlund@attbi.com http://earlymusichicago.home.attbi.com/ http://earlymusichicago.org/earlymusichicago/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 14:04:10 -0500 From: Dale Cruse Subject: Re: [TROMBONE-L] - a little more--corrections Heinrich Gambolputty de von Ausfernschplendenschlittercrasscrenbonfrieddiggerdangledunglebursteinvonknac kerthrasherapplebangerhorowitzticolensicgranderknottyspelltinklegrandlichgru mblemeyerspelterwasserkŸrstlichhimbleeisenbahnwagengutenabendbitteeinenŸrnbu rgerbratwustlegerspurtenmitzweimacheluberhundsfutgumberabershšnendankerkalbs fleischmittlerraucher von Hautkopft of Ulm? No. The last living relative of Johann Gambolputty de von Ausfernschplendenschlittercrasscrenbonfrieddiggerdangledunglebursteinvonknac kerthrasherapplebangerhorowitzticolensicgranderknottyspelltinklegrandlichgru mblemeyerspelterwasserkŸrstlichhimbleeisenbahnwagengutenabendbitteeinenŸrnbu rgerbratwustlegerspurtenmitzweimacheluberhundsfutgumberabershšnendankerkalbs fleischmittlerraucher von Hautkopft of Ulm was Karl Gambolputty de von Ausfernschplendenschlittercrasscrenbonfrieddiggerdangledunglebursteinvonknac kerthrasherapplebangerhorowitzticolensicgranderknottyspelltinklegrandlichgru mblemeyerspelterwasserkŸrstlichhimbleeisenbahnwagengutenabendbitteeinenŸrnbu rgerbratwustlegerspurtenmitzweimacheluberhundsfutgumberabershšnendankerkalbs fleischmittlerraucher von Hautkopft of Ulm. And of course Johann Gambolputty de von Ausfernschplendenschlittercrasscrenbonfrieddiggerdangledunglebursteinvonknac kerthrasherapplebangerhorowitzticolensicgranderknottyspelltinklegrandlichgru mblemeyerspelterwasserkŸrstlichhimbleeisenbahnwagengutenabendbitteeinenŸrnbu rgerbratwustlegerspurtenmitzweimacheluberhundsfutgumberabershšnendankerkalbs fleischmittlerraucher von Hautkopft of Ulm had a wife named Sarah Gambolputty de von Ausfernschplendenschlittercrasscrenbonfrieddiggerdangledunglebursteinvonknac kerthrasherapplebangerhorowitzticolensicgranderknottyspelltinklegrandlichgru mblemeyerspelterwasserkŸrstlichhimbleeisenbahnwagengutenabendbitteeinenŸrnbu rgerbratwustlegerspurtenmitzweimacheluberhundsfutgumberabershšnendankerkalbs fleischmittlerraucher von Hautkopft of Ulm. Perhaps you were thinking of her. ---- Dale Cruse www.dalecruse.com Setting you up for online success. On 12/29/02 12:49 PM, "Keith Marr" wrote: > Would he by any chance be related to Heinrich Gambolputty de von > Ausfernschplendenschlittercrasscrenbonfrieddiggerdangledunglebursteinvonknac > kerthrasherapplebangerhorowitzticolensicgranderknottyspelltinklegrandlichgru > mblemeyerspelterwasserkŸrstlichhimbleeisenbahnwagengutenabendbitteeinenŸrnbu > rgerbratwustlegerspurtenmitzweimacheluberhundsfutgumberabershšnendankerkalbs > fleischmittlerraucher von Hautkopft of Ulm? > > ------------------------ > Keith in Bb/F/D > www.allthingsmusic.co.uk/entertainers/keith.htm > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dale Cruse" > To: > Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 5:45 PM > Subject: Re: [TBN-L] [TROMBONE-L] - a little more--corrections > > >> No my name's really Adrian Yeo-Izzo-Waage-Dyess-Suter >> Adrian Drover > > Which of course begs the question, "Why is it the world never remembered the > name of Johann Gambolputty de von > Ausfernschplendenschlittercrasscrenbonfrieddiggerdangledunglebursteinvonknac > kerthrasherapplebangerhorowitzticolensicgranderknottyspelltinklegrandlichgru > mblemeyerspelterwasserkŸrstlichhimbleeisenbahnwagengutenabendbitteeinenŸrnbu > rgerbratwustlegerspurtenmitzweimacheluberhundsfutgumberabershšnendankerkalbs > fleischmittlerraucher von Hautkopft of Ulm?" > ---- > Dale Cruse > www.dalecruse.com > Setting you up for online success. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 13:05:11 -0600 From: Bill Dinwiddie Subject: Further Destruction of a Noble Profession is Attempted Dear Trombone Friends, Because many of the shows that appear on Broadway make their way to other venues across the country, I think the following is an important message which anyone who has ever made a dollar playing in an orchestra pit should pay serious attention to. Synthesizers and samplers and prerecorded music tracks can now be synched to a conductor's lighted baton, which finally establishes an electronic link between the stage and the pit, and may eliminate the need to have a live orchestra, even for the biggest shows. The conductor can now follow the stage and be sure that the "black boxes" will follow him. I have heard that the Lion King (a Disney Production), which opens this spring in Chicago will be using a drummer, a synth player and a conductor with a lighted stick. When I played in pit orchestras in Chicago theaters in the '70s and '80s, the minimum instrumentation for large "book shows" was 22 musicians. The Chicago minimum was a direct result of the minimum as established for the New York production, and the Musician's Union rigidly enforced that minimum. Most shows used two trombones, a tenor and a bass, sometimes three. Students, who are graduating in ever larger numbers from our nation's music schools, are already very concerned about where the musical jobs they want to obtain are going to come from. Audiences are already paying sky-high ticket prices to attend shows that utilize electronic or prerecorded music tracks. The same people go to weddings where one person, with a box of CDs, tries to provide the musical entertainment for the entire evening. Will symphony orchestra players be the next victims of the "lighted baton" syndrome? Two thousand people in the audience sitting there in a concert hall, watching and listening to a person (or a robot) conducting a bunch of wires and blinking lights. Seems silly and impossible, doesn't it? I hope it is impossible, but I wouldn't bet on it. We are not that far away right now! Please read on: ************************************************************ Subject: PLEASE FORWARD! BROADWAY MUSICIANS NEED YOUR SUPPORT! Dear friends, family, and colleagues: The following information was compiled by Local 802 of the American Federation of Musicians in New York City in an effort to familiarize as many people as possible with the issues that Broadway's musicians are facing in the upcoming negotiations. If you have received this e-mail, chances are you are either a Broadway musician yourself, a friend or family member of a Broadway musician, or some more "distant relation" of a Broadway musician. We ask that you forward this e-mail to as many sympathetic people as you possibly can, even people who are not involved in the business in any way, and even people whom you think may already be aware of this information. We also ask that people who receive this e-mail write letters to their local newspapers so that people all over the US can be made aware of the threat of Broadway's live musicians being replaced by computers playing what is essentially recorded music. TO SIGN OUR ON-LINE PETITION TO SAVE LIVE MUSIC ON BROADWAY, GO TO www.savelivebroadway.com (site will be up in early January, 2003). AEA and IATSE members, especially those currently working on Broadway shows, we ask you to read this information particularly carefully. And we encourage you to talk to the musicians at your shows about any questions that you have regarding these issues. BACKGROUND INFO On March 2, 2003, the agreement between Local 802 and the League of American Theatres and Producers covering Broadway's orchestras expires. >From the earliest days of musical theatre, every Broadway house has been required to present musicals with a minimum number of musicians. There are no minimum requirements for dramatic shows. The minimums were mutually agreed upon and evolved over the years largely based on the size of the theatre and the need for appropriate musical projection. Over the last two decades, Broadway has seen a wide variety of musical genres presented on stage with varying musical needs. In a few cases it led to orchestras larger than needed and musicians on staff who were not required to perform each night ("walkers"). In response to that, in 1993, Local 802 and the League reached agreement on language making those minimum orchestra sizes flexible depending upon the musical needs of a show. A panel of prominent orchestrators, arrangers, and musical directors was put in place to arbitrate any disputes over these artistic issues. Since 1993, Local 802 and the panel have approved sharply reduced orchestras for a number of shows, including Smokey Joe's Cafe, On the Town, Footloose, Chicago, High Society, Swingin' on a Star, Civil War, Swing, Aida, Mamma Mia, Movin' Out and Amour. Over this 9 year period, the system put in place has worked. There have been no "walkers". Musicals have been presented with a wide variety of orchestra sizes, and Live Broadway has flourished. What then are the issues in these negotiations? The employers want the right to further reduce and/or eliminate orchestras. They claim they need the "artistic discretion" to decide on the musical needs of a show. Who should be making the musical decisions about a show? Decisions about the musical needs of a show are properly made by the composer, arranger, orchestrator, and music director, often in consultation with the director and choreographer. These are the people involved in making these decisions, and they have made clear to Local 802 that their ability to do so depends upon the minimum orchestra requirements in the Local 802 contract. Without these minimums, they would not have the latitude to continue to create the musical theatre that has made Broadway so successful over the last several decades. If it's not about "walkers" or artistic discretion, what is the issue? Why are they making demands to change something that seems to be working? Broadway producers believe that the technology exists to replace many, if not most, of the orchestra members with synthesized or digitally recorded (sampled) musical sounds. Saving the cost of these musicians' salaries would mean greater payoff to investors and theater owners. Their demands have nothing to do with "walkers" or "artistic" needs. Their demands are purely economic. It's interesting to note that the musicians, who are the people who make a Broadway musical a musical, represent a small percentage of the average ticket price, ranging from a low of 2.1%($1.76) to a high of 11.4%($6.35), with the overall average 6.1%, based on the latest information from the League. Consumers should ask themselves two questions: is it worth this small amount to have real musicians instead of machines providing the music in this apex of live theatre?; and if the producers were able to eliminate some or all of the musicians, would they pass this savings on to the ticket buyers? Is Broadway in trouble? Do they need financial help? Broadway grosses have set new box office records in each year of the last decade, the one exception being 2001 when the impact of 9/11 was felt. However, with the help and sacrifice of all the employees on Broadway, by the summer of 2002, Broadway had bounced back and is now once again reporting record grosses. The profits of long running shows, particularly long running musicals, are measured in the billions of dollars. What if the producers got their way? What would happen to Broadway Theatre? We believe that audiences view Broadway Theatre as the pinnacle of this art form. Broadway is about quality: quality design, quality live performance, quality technical work, and quality live music. New York is the destination for those who want to see the highest caliber of live musical theatre. Half of our audiences are tourists who come to NYC just to attend the theatre. Why would they continue to come if the same caliber of show could be seen in their local theater or concert hall? In the quest for short term profits, producers seem willing to kill the goose that lays the golden egg eight times a week in Broadway theaters. Could they possibly be that short sighted? We hope not. However, we know the kind of short term economic decision-making that is so prevalent in the business world today. Certainly Broadway producers are not immune. But we can't allow a few misguided employers to turn midtown Manhattan into Las Vegas or an entertainment theme park. Broadway Theatre is an important economic engine for the city of New York. Cheapening our product could not only threaten all of our jobs and futures, it could also do serious damage to the NYC economy. We all have a stake in protecting the quality of live musical theatre. Once again, TO SIGN OUR ON-LINE PETITION TO SAVE LIVE MUSIC ON BROADWAY AND FOR MORE INFORMATION, GO TO www.savelivebroadway.com (site will be up in early January, 2003). Thank you, and please forward! ************************************************* Thanks for reading this long message. I hope many of you will make your feelings known to your friends, fellow musicians, media people and influential people in government and the arts. Bill Dinwiddie bill752d@attbi.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 12:58:35 -0700 From: James Scott Subject: Re: Further Destruction of a Noble Profession is Attempted Bill - A sad situation indeed, and as usual, it shows a complete lack of respect for musicians. I have just one question - who will the conductors be blaming when the pre-recorded music is not lining up with the stage when they use their new "lighted batons"? It will certainly put some of them out of work when there's no longer anyone to blame for their lack of skill! Jim Scott Bill Dinwiddie wrote: >Dear Trombone Friends, > >Because many of the shows that appear on Broadway make their way to other >venues across the country, I think the following is an important message >which anyone who has ever made a dollar playing in an orchestra pit should >pay serious attention to. Synthesizers and samplers and prerecorded music >tracks can now be synched to a conductor's lighted baton, which finally >establishes an electronic link between the stage and the pit, and may >eliminate the need to have a live orchestra, even for the biggest shows. The >conductor can now follow the stage and be sure that the "black boxes" will >follow him. I have heard that the Lion King (a Disney Production), which >opens this spring in Chicago will be using a drummer, a synth player and a >conductor with a lighted stick. When I played in pit orchestras in Chicago >theaters in the '70s and '80s, the minimum instrumentation for large "book >shows" was 22 musicians. The Chicago minimum was a direct result of the >minimum as established for the New York production, and the Musician's Union >rigidly enforced that minimum. Most shows used two trombones, a tenor and a >bass, sometimes three. > >Students, who are graduating in ever larger numbers from our nation's music >schools, are already very concerned about where the musical jobs they want >to obtain are going to come from. Audiences are already paying sky-high >ticket prices to attend shows that utilize electronic or prerecorded music >tracks. The same people go to weddings where one person, with a box of CDs, >tries to provide the musical entertainment for the entire evening. Will >symphony orchestra players be the next victims of the "lighted baton" >syndrome? Two thousand people in the audience sitting there in a concert >hall, watching and listening to a person (or a robot) conducting a bunch of >wires and blinking lights. Seems silly and impossible, doesn't it? I hope it >is impossible, but I wouldn't bet on it. We are not that far away right now! > >Please read on: > >************************************************************ > >Subject: PLEASE FORWARD! BROADWAY MUSICIANS NEED YOUR SUPPORT! > >Dear friends, family, and colleagues: >The following information was compiled by Local 802 of the American >Federation of Musicians in New York City in an effort to familiarize as many >people as possible with the issues that Broadway's musicians are facing in >the upcoming negotiations. If you have received this e-mail, chances are you >are either a Broadway musician yourself, a friend or family member of a >Broadway musician, or some more "distant relation" of a Broadway musician. >We ask that you forward this e-mail to as many sympathetic people as you >possibly can, even people who are not involved in the business in any way, >and even people whom you think may already be aware of this information. We >also ask that people who receive this e-mail write letters to their local >newspapers so that people all over the US can be made aware of the threat of >Broadway's live musicians being replaced by computers playing what is >essentially recorded music. > > TO SIGN OUR ON-LINE PETITION TO SAVE LIVE MUSIC ON BROADWAY, > GO TO www.savelivebroadway.com (site will be up in early January, 2003). > >AEA and IATSE members, especially those currently working on Broadway shows, >we ask you to read this information particularly carefully. And we encourage >you to talk to the musicians at your shows about any questions that you have >regarding these issues. > > >BACKGROUND INFO >On March 2, 2003, the agreement between Local 802 and the League of >American Theatres and Producers covering Broadway's orchestras expires. >>From the earliest days of musical theatre, every Broadway house has been >required to present musicals with a minimum number of musicians. There are >no minimum requirements for dramatic shows. The minimums were mutually >agreed >upon and evolved over the years largely based on the size of the theatre and >the need for appropriate musical projection. > Over the last two decades, Broadway has seen a wide variety of musical >genres presented on stage with varying musical needs. In a few cases it led >to orchestras larger than needed and musicians on staff who were not >required to perform each night ("walkers"). In response to that, in 1993, >Local 802 >and the League reached agreement on language making those minimum orchestra >sizes flexible depending upon the musical needs of a show. A panel of >prominent orchestrators, arrangers, and musical directors was put in place >to arbitrate any disputes over these artistic issues. > Since 1993, Local 802 and the panel have approved sharply reduced >orchestras for a number of shows, including Smokey Joe's Cafe, On the Town, >Footloose, Chicago, High Society, Swingin' on a Star, Civil War, Swing, >Aida, Mamma Mia, Movin' Out and Amour. Over this 9 year period, the system >put in >place has worked. There have been no "walkers". Musicals have been presented >with a wide variety of orchestra sizes, and Live Broadway has flourished. > >What then are the issues in these negotiations? > The employers want the right to further reduce and/or eliminate >orchestras. They claim they need the "artistic discretion" to decide on the >musical needs of a show. > >Who should be making the musical decisions about a show? > Decisions about the musical needs of a show are properly made by the >composer, arranger, orchestrator, and music director, often in consultation >with the director and choreographer. These are the people involved in making >these decisions, and they have made clear to Local 802 that their ability to >do so depends upon the minimum orchestra requirements in the Local 802 >contract. Without these minimums, they would not have the latitude to >continue to create the musical theatre that has made Broadway so successful >over the last several decades. > >If it's not about "walkers" or artistic discretion, what is the issue? Why >are they making demands to change something that seems to be working? > Broadway producers believe that the technology exists to replace many, >if not most, of the orchestra members with synthesized or digitally recorded >(sampled) musical sounds. Saving the cost of these musicians' salaries would >mean greater payoff to investors and theater owners. Their demands have >nothing to do with "walkers" or "artistic" needs. Their demands are purely >economic. > It's interesting to note that the musicians, who are the people who make >a Broadway musical a musical, represent a small percentage of the average >ticket price, ranging from a low of 2.1%($1.76) to a high of 11.4%($6.35), >with the overall average 6.1%, based on the latest information from the >League. Consumers should ask themselves two questions: is it worth this >small amount to have real musicians instead of machines providing the music >in >this apex of live theatre?; and if the producers were able to eliminate some >or >all of the musicians, would they pass this savings on to the ticket buyers? > >Is Broadway in trouble? Do they need financial help? > Broadway grosses have set new box office records in each year of the >last decade, the one exception being 2001 when the impact of 9/11 was felt. >However, with the help and sacrifice of all the employees on Broadway, by >the summer of 2002, Broadway had bounced back and is now once again >reporting >record grosses. The profits of long running shows, particularly long running >musicals, are measured in the billions of dollars. > >What if the producers got their way? What would happen to Broadway Theatre? > We believe that audiences view Broadway Theatre as the pinnacle of this >art form. Broadway is about quality: quality design, quality live >performance, quality technical work, and quality live music. New York is the >destination for those who want to see the highest caliber of live musical >theatre. Half of our audiences are tourists who come to NYC just to attend >the theatre. Why would they continue to come if the same caliber of show >could be seen in their local theater or concert hall? In the quest for short >term profits, producers seem willing to kill the goose that lays the golden >egg eight times a week in Broadway theaters. > >Could they possibly be that short sighted? > We hope not. However, we know the kind of short term economic >decision-making that is so prevalent in the business world today. Certainly >Broadway producers are not immune. But we can't allow a few misguided >employers to turn midtown Manhattan into Las Vegas or an entertainment theme >park. Broadway Theatre is an important economic engine for the city of New >York. Cheapening our product could not only threaten all of our jobs and >futures, it could also do serious damage to the NYC economy. We all have a >stake in protecting the quality of live musical theatre. > >Once again, TO SIGN OUR ON-LINE PETITION TO SAVE LIVE MUSIC ON BROADWAY >AND FOR MORE INFORMATION, GO TO www.savelivebroadway.com (site will be >up in early January, 2003). > >Thank you, and please forward! > >************************************************* > >Thanks for reading this long message. I hope many of you will make your >feelings known to your friends, fellow musicians, media people and >influential people in government and the arts. > >Bill Dinwiddie >bill752d@attbi.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 12:00:09 -0800 From: Tom Izzo Subject: Re: [TROMBONE-L] - a little more--corrections Not memorable enough, perhaps? LOL :-) --- Dale Cruse wrote: > > No my name's really Adrian > Yeo-Izzo-Waage-Dyess-Suter > > Adrian Drover > > Which of course begs the question, "Why is it the > world never remembered the > name of Johann Gambolputty de von > Ausfernschplendenschlittercrasscrenbonfrieddiggerdangledunglebursteinvonknac > kerthrasherapplebangerhorowitzticolensicgranderknottyspelltinklegrandlichgru > mblemeyerspelterwasserkŸrstlichhimbleeisenbahnwagengutenabendbitteeinenŸrnbu > rgerbratwustlegerspurtenmitzweimacheluberhundsfutgumberabershšnendankerkalbs > fleischmittlerraucher von Hautkopft of Ulm?" > ---- > Dale Cruse > www.dalecruse.com > Setting you up for online success. ===== Tom Izzo Principal Trombonist, Bristol Renaissance Faire Bass Trombonist, West Suburban Symphony Orchestra Alto/Tenor/Bass/Contrabass Trombones, Tubas, Bass Trumpet, Euphonium, Electric Bass, Percussion http://www.Geocities.com/Vienna/Studio/7875/ (630) 983-1985 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 12:01:24 -0800 From: Tom Izzo Subject: Re: [TROMBONE-L] - a little more--corrections No, of course not, just slightly similar names. :-) --- Keith Marr wrote: > Would he by any chance be related to Heinrich > Gambolputty de von > Ausfernschplendenschlittercrasscrenbonfrieddiggerdangledunglebursteinvonknac > kerthrasherapplebangerhorowitzticolensicgranderknottyspelltinklegrandlichgru > mblemeyerspelterwasserkŸrstlichhimbleeisenbahnwagengutenabendbitteeinenŸrnbu > rgerbratwustlegerspurtenmitzweimacheluberhundsfutgumberabershšnendankerkalbs > fleischmittlerraucher von Hautkopft of Ulm? > > ------------------------ > Keith in Bb/F/D > www.allthingsmusic.co.uk/entertainers/keith.htm > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dale Cruse" > To: > Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 5:45 PM > Subject: Re: [TBN-L] [TROMBONE-L] - a little > more--corrections > > > > No my name's really Adrian > Yeo-Izzo-Waage-Dyess-Suter > > Adrian Drover > > Which of course begs the question, "Why is it the > world never remembered the > name of Johann Gambolputty de von > Ausfernschplendenschlittercrasscrenbonfrieddiggerdangledunglebursteinvonknac > kerthrasherapplebangerhorowitzticolensicgranderknottyspelltinklegrandlichgru > mblemeyerspelterwasserkŸrstlichhimbleeisenbahnwagengutenabendbitteeinenŸrnbu > rgerbratwustlegerspurtenmitzweimacheluberhundsfutgumberabershšnendankerkalbs > fleischmittlerraucher von Hautkopft of Ulm?" > ---- > Dale Cruse > www.dalecruse.com > Setting you up for online success. ===== Tom Izzo Principal Trombonist, Bristol Renaissance Faire Bass Trombonist, West Suburban Symphony Orchestra Alto/Tenor/Bass/Contrabass Trombones, Tubas, Bass Trumpet, Euphonium, Electric Bass, Percussion http://www.Geocities.com/Vienna/Studio/7875/ (630) 983-1985 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 12:12:22 -0800 From: Tom Izzo Subject: Re: Further Destruction of a Noble Profession is Attempted Heck Bill, Your message relates to all live theatre venues, not just NYC. If the orchs are eliminated, they might just eliminate live theatre all together. Videos might be the only "theatre" in 20 years. That would truly be very said. Tom (local Chicago area theatre guy) --- Bill Dinwiddie wrote: > Dear Trombone Friends, > > Because many of the shows that appear on Broadway > make their way to other > venues across the country, ===== Tom Izzo Principal Trombonist, Bristol Renaissance Faire Bass Trombonist, West Suburban Symphony Orchestra Alto/Tenor/Bass/Contrabass Trombones, Tubas, Bass Trumpet, Euphonium, Electric Bass, Percussion http://www.Geocities.com/Vienna/Studio/7875/ (630) 983-1985 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 15:57:57 EST From: Dansatt@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Further Destruction of a Noble Profession is Attempted Allegro (local 802's newspaper) Volume CIII=C2=A0No. 1=C2=A0=20 January,=C2=A02003 Virtual Christmas? by Bill Dennison=20 When the orchestra assembled for this year=E2=80=99s Radio City Christmas=20 Spectacular, there was an uninvited guest in the band. Brett Sommer and Musi= c=20 Arts Technology had installed a "virtual orchestra" setup that included a=20 computer and synth programmed to play along with the orchestra on two major=20 musical numbers. The problem as reported by orchestra members was that it=20 didn=E2=80=99t "play along" with the orchestra. "Suddenly we would hear thes= e parts=20 being played completely out of step with us," said one orchestra member. "Yo= u=20 couldn=E2=80=99t control it," said another. "You hit a key and it takes off,= =20 regardless of what was happening on stage or what the orchestra was trying t= o=20 do."=20 It got so bad that the show=E2=80=99s musical team and management decided it= had to=20 go. On Dec. 2, the VO was taken out of the Christmas show to the relief of=20 everyone involved.=20 =C2=A0 =20 =20 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 13:12:42 -0800 From: emrose79@PACBELL.NET Subject: Re: Further Destruction of a Noble Profession is Attempted That might be just wishful thinking, I'm afraid. The bugs will be worked out, and another assault on the working people will be successful. We've had this discussion before, but how many people actually go to a musical for the orchestra? Most go for the musical itself, or to see the stars. We pay attention because our interest lies in the orchestra. I was at Harrah's Reno a few years ago when Kay Starr and the Mills Brother(s) was there. I can bet that I was the only one in the audience that was watching the trombones. The audience would probably have been just as happy to see the stars without the band, but fortunetly, Don (or was it John) Mills used a live band. To me, it made a much warmer performance. As for the ticket prices....well...you know how that goes. Ed (a working-ok, ok, employed at least) person Dansatt@AOL.COM wrote: > > Allegro (local 802's newspaper) > Volume CIIIå No. 1å > January,å 2003 Virtual Christmas? > by Bill Dennison > > When the orchestra assembled for this year‰Ûªs Radio City Christmas > Spectacular, there was an uninvited guest in the band. Brett Sommer and Music > Arts Technology had installed a "virtual orchestra" setup that included a > computer and synth programmed to play along with the orchestra on two major > musical numbers. The problem as reported by orchestra members was that it > didn‰Ûªt "play along" with the orchestra. "Suddenly we would hear these parts > being played completely out of step with us," said one orchestra member. "You > couldn‰Ûªt control it," said another. "You hit a key and it takes off, > regardless of what was happening on stage or what the orchestra was trying to > do." > > It got so bad that the show‰Ûªs musical team and management decided it had to > go. On Dec. 2, the VO was taken out of the Christmas show to the relief of > everyone involved. > > å > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 20:38:25 -0000 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: [TROMBONE-L] - a little more--corrections From: "Keith Marr" > Would he by any chance be related to Heinrich Gambolputty de von Ausfernschplendenschlittercrasscrenbonfrieddiggerdangledunglebursteinvonknac kerthrasherapplebangerhorowitzticolensicgranderknottyspelltinklegrandlichgru mblemeyerspelterwasserkŸrstlichhimbleeisenbahnwagengutenabendbitteeinenŸrnbu rgerbratwustlegerspurtenmitzweimacheluberhundsfutgumberabershšnendankerkalbs fleischmittlerraucher von Hautkopft of Ulm? >>> No Keith, you're thinking of Herr Lipp, the Westfalian high note trumpet player, you know, the guy who married Bavarian oboist, Frau Nalott. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 16:25:18 -0500 From: John Boblett Subject: Re: first gig I have to admit, I don't know what a crumhorn is. Can anyone help me out on this? Is this where the expression "crummy sound" comes from? I was thinking that maybe that it would be what one would have if one were to eat crackers, cookies, or other munchables immediately prior to or while playing his (or her) horn. jb -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of robert.osterlund@ATTBI.COM Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 1:57 PM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: [TBN-L] first gig Folks: Okay, so I survived my first "gig" earlier this morning. I played a sort of continuo to the piece "Orientis Partibus" with my recorder group at a local church. (We played a mix of recorders, crumhorns, percussion, and sackbut.) We played the piece at a fast tempo, which presented a real challenge for me. For an extra challenge, someone decided that we should process into the church while playing (in between singing the verses). So, I had to play the piece from memory while marching. My wife had attached red ribbons to the front and back slides--a touch of festiveness, but a bit of a distraction. It went very well, all things considered. On the final run through, I took a chance and played the melody. I mangled the middle measure (playing from memory, mind you), but nobody really noticed. The good news is that I played well enough to be invited to play jaunty Renaissance pieces with the group in the future. I passed my "audition"! YES!!! Happy New Year to all, and especially to my fellow trombonists/sackbutists! I wouldn't have gotten this far without you. Berto -- robert.osterlund@attbi.com http://earlymusichicago.home.attbi.com/ http://earlymusichicago.org/earlymusichicago/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 16:45:39 -0500 From: "Wessner, John" Subject: Re: first gig - Crumhorn A Crumhorn is a an internal double reed instrument with a curve at the other end. It does sound crummy! I've told people from the stage that Ellington's long time lead alto player (I don't do nouns and names anymore) doubled on it and because of the moisture that collected in the bend gave the inspiration for Ellington's Krum Elbow Blues. jw -----Original Message----- From: John Boblett [mailto:jboblett1@WOH.RR.COM] Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 4:25 PM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Re: [TBN-L] first gig I have to admit, I don't know what a crumhorn is. Can anyone help me out on this? Is this where the expression "crummy sound" comes from? I was thinking that maybe that it would be what one would have if one were to eat crackers, cookies, or other munchables immediately prior to or while playing his (or her) horn. jb -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of robert.osterlund@ATTBI.COM Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 1:57 PM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: [TBN-L] first gig Folks: Okay, so I survived my first "gig" earlier this morning. I played a sort of continuo to the piece "Orientis Partibus" with my recorder group at a local church. (We played a mix of recorders, crumhorns, percussion, and sackbut.) We played the piece at a fast tempo, which presented a real challenge for me. For an extra challenge, someone decided that we should process into the church while playing (in between singing the verses). So, I had to play the piece from memory while marching. My wife had attached red ribbons to the front and back slides--a touch of festiveness, but a bit of a distraction. It went very well, all things considered. On the final run through, I took a chance and played the melody. I mangled the middle measure (playing from memory, mind you), but nobody really noticed. The good news is that I played well enough to be invited to play jaunty Renaissance pieces with the group in the future. I passed my "audition"! YES!!! Happy New Year to all, and especially to my fellow trombonists/sackbutists! I wouldn't have gotten this far without you. Berto -- robert.osterlund@attbi.com http://earlymusichicago.home.attbi.com/ http://earlymusichicago.org/earlymusichicago/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 13:53:28 -0800 From: Galen McQuarrie Subject: Re: first gig - Crumhorn Try Johnny Hodges, didn't know he played crumhorn but he was never crummy on the Alto-- --Galen McQuarrie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wessner, John" To: Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 1:45 PM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] first gig - Crumhorn | A Crumhorn is a an internal double reed instrument with a curve at the other end. It does sound crummy! I've told people from the stage that Ellington's long time lead alto player (I don't do nouns and names anymore) doubled on it and because of the moisture that collected in the bend gave the inspiration for Ellington's Krum Elbow Blues. | jw | | -----Original Message----- | From: John Boblett [mailto:jboblett1@WOH.RR.COM] | Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 4:25 PM | To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU | Subject: Re: [TBN-L] first gig | | | I have to admit, I don't know what a crumhorn is. Can anyone help me | out on this? | Is this where the expression "crummy sound" comes from? | I was thinking that maybe that it would be what one would have if one | were to eat crackers, cookies, or other munchables immediately prior to | or while playing his (or her) horn. | jb | | -----Original Message----- | From: Trombones and related issues forum. | [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of | robert.osterlund@ATTBI.COM | Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 1:57 PM | To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU | Subject: [TBN-L] first gig | | Folks: | | Okay, so I survived my first "gig" earlier this morning. | | I played a sort of continuo to the piece "Orientis Partibus" with my | recorder | group at a local church. (We played a mix of recorders, crumhorns, | percussion, | and sackbut.) We played the piece at a fast tempo, which presented a | real | challenge for me. For an extra challenge, someone decided that we | should | process into the church while playing (in between singing the verses). | So, I | had to play the piece from memory while marching. My wife had attached | red | ribbons to the front and back slides--a touch of festiveness, but a bit | of a | distraction. | | It went very well, all things considered. On the final run through, I | took a | chance and played the melody. I mangled the middle measure (playing | from | memory, mind you), but nobody really noticed. | | The good news is that I played well enough to be invited to play jaunty | Renaissance pieces with the group in the future. I passed my | "audition"! | YES!!! | | Happy New Year to all, and especially to my fellow | trombonists/sackbutists! I | wouldn't have gotten this far without you. | | Berto | | -- | robert.osterlund@attbi.com | http://earlymusichicago.home.attbi.com/ | http://earlymusichicago.org/earlymusichicago/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 14:21:08 -0800 From: Tom Izzo Subject: Re: first gig - Crumhorn John & all, --- "Wessner, John" wrote: > A Crumhorn is a an internal double reed instrument > with a curve at the other end. It does sound > crummy Come on, the Crumhorn doesn't sound "crummy". There might be some players out there who don't play it very well, but it's just like beginning Trombone players. The first day you picked up your instrument, do you think you sounded good? Did your folks? Did the neighbors? The Crumhorn, like any instrument (well, any except maybe the bagpipes. ), can sound absolutely beautiful in the proper context with the right music & in the hands/mouth of an expert musician. But it would be the player who played it badly, not the instrument itself. The instrument itself would just sit there lifeless. Tom ===== Tom Izzo Principal Trombonist, Bristol Renaissance Faire Bass Trombonist, West Suburban Symphony Orchestra Alto/Tenor/Bass/Contrabass Trombones, Tubas, Bass Trumpet, Euphonium, Electric Bass, Percussion http://www.Geocities.com/Vienna/Studio/7875/ (630) 983-1985 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 14:12:05 -0800 From: Brad Hammett Subject: Jazz Music and Hearing Loss The following is what seemed very surprising to me. I have hearing loss = from playing jazz. Very Little ROCK. It opened my eyes and ears to getting = tested and looking at solutions. The new ear plugs appear to be great....Will report later =20 =20 The results of my hearing test are complete. The results are fairly = typical for someone my age, 47, but the deep spike at 6khz on my right ear is = not. Neither is the Tinnitus! A young person with no hearing damage would get = a flat response across the frequency range tested and at the 0db level. = This would be no hearing loss! All measurements below the "0db line" level = are hearing loss. Since all this hearing loss could be prevented with a = little ear plug for times the SPL levels exceed 90db, I will be using the ear plugs. These plugs are not typical everyday ear plugs. They have a near = flat frequency response from 20-20khz. Music should translate crystal clear. = Just lower volume. "FF" will become "MF." I should have a hands on report = soon. =20 Link below for more info: http://www.abelard.org/hear/hear.htm =20 =20 DB SPL readings measured playing various notes at various volumes on the trombone. Measurements measured with the meter located near my left ear = and aimed toward the bell. The Meter is not of the highest quality, Radio = Shack, but reviews I have read indicate the readings are surprisingly accurate = for such a cheap meter. Some readings may be off by + or - 5bd. Still = accurate enough to demonstrate the potential hearing damage that could occur just practicing. Having just completed a hearing test Friday, I will be = trying to hold the sound levels down to 90db from now on by the use of ear plugs. = The ear plugs I have purchased should make "FFF" sound like "MF." I will let = you know...should have them in a day or two. =20 =20 Tests I made with the SPL meter. =20 =20 SPL Readings=09 =09 =09 Note PP MF F FFF=09 =09 Low F 84 89 95 99=09 =09 Low Bb 84 90 99 104=09 =09 Mid F 84 88 102 106=09 =09 Mid Bb 86 93 104 107=09 =09 High F 90 97 106 108=09 =09 High Bb 96 100 109 111=09 =09 Dbl F 100 100 111 110=09 =09 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 14:38:11 -0800 From: Randy Fendrick Subject: Re: first gig - Crumhorn Isn't the Crumhorn related to the bag pipes? It is a capped reed instrument as the bag pipes is, with the bag located inside the body of the player (his lungs) rather than the outside as the bag pipes are. I have always enjoyed early music and the instruments associated with it but sometimes feel that it is an acquired taste. As some people suggest that Scotch is. Years ago, when I was teaching early music I would suggest to new students that the sound of the crumhorn gives it its' name. I was kidding, of course, but glad the tradition continues. later, Randy Fendrick Southside Chicago Seven Bakersfield Symphony Orchestra On Sunday, December 29, 2002, at 02:21 PM, Tom Izzo wrote: > John & all, > > --- "Wessner, John" wrote: >> A Crumhorn is a an internal double reed instrument >> with a curve at the other end. It does sound >> crummy > > Come on, the Crumhorn doesn't sound "crummy". There > might be some players out there who don't play it very > well, but it's just like beginning Trombone players. > The first day you picked up your instrument, do you > think you sounded good? Did your folks? Did the > neighbors? > > The Crumhorn, like any instrument (well, any except > maybe the bagpipes. ), can sound absolutely > beautiful in the proper context with the right music & > in the hands/mouth of an expert musician. > > But it would be the player who played it badly, not > the instrument itself. The instrument itself would > just sit there lifeless. > > Tom > > > ===== > Tom Izzo > Principal Trombonist, Bristol Renaissance Faire > Bass Trombonist, West Suburban Symphony Orchestra > Alto/Tenor/Bass/Contrabass Trombones, Tubas, Bass Trumpet, Euphonium, > Electric Bass, Percussion > http://www.Geocities.com/Vienna/Studio/7875/ > (630) 983-1985 > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 14:47:44 -0800 From: Tom Izzo Subject: Re: first gig - Crumhorn --- Randy Fendrick wrote: > Isn't the Crumhorn related to the bag pipes? It is > a capped reed > instrument as the bag pipes is, with the bag located > inside the body of > the player (his lungs) rather than the outside as > the bag pipes are. By a stretch, maybe. The Crumhorn is related to the Shawm, & a predecessor to the Oboe, Cor Anglais, Bassoon, Hecklephone, Sarrusophone, etc. By todays standards, it sounds weak or scrawny if in todays music. But for the music for which it was written.................it can sound absolutely beautiful. It's our ears that need training not the instrument. Tom I > have always enjoyed early music and the instruments > associated with it > but sometimes feel that it is an acquired taste. As > some people > suggest that Scotch is. Years ago, when I was > teaching early music I > would suggest to new students that the sound of the > crumhorn gives it > its' name. I was kidding, of course, but glad the > tradition continues. > later, > Randy Fendrick > Southside Chicago Seven > Bakersfield Symphony Orchestra > On Sunday, December 29, 2002, at 02:21 PM, Tom Izzo > wrote: > > > John & all, > > > > --- "Wessner, John" wrote: > >> A Crumhorn is a an internal double reed > instrument > >> with a curve at the other end. It does sound > >> crummy > > > > Come on, the Crumhorn doesn't sound "crummy". > There > > might be some players out there who don't play it > very > > well, but it's just like beginning Trombone > players. > > The first day you picked up your instrument, do > you > > think you sounded good? Did your folks? Did the > > neighbors? > > > > The Crumhorn, like any instrument (well, any > except > > maybe the bagpipes. ), can sound absolutely > > beautiful in the proper context with the right > music & > > in the hands/mouth of an expert musician. > > > > But it would be the player who played it badly, > not > > the instrument itself. The instrument itself would > > just sit there lifeless. > > > > Tom > > > > > > ===== > > Tom Izzo > > Principal Trombonist, Bristol Renaissance Faire > > Bass Trombonist, West Suburban Symphony Orchestra > > Alto/Tenor/Bass/Contrabass Trombones, Tubas, Bass > Trumpet, Euphonium, > > Electric Bass, Percussion > > http://www.Geocities.com/Vienna/Studio/7875/ > > (630) 983-1985 > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up > now. > > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > > > ===== Tom Izzo Principal Trombonist, Bristol Renaissance Faire Bass Trombonist, West Suburban Symphony Orchestra Alto/Tenor/Bass/Contrabass Trombones, Tubas, Bass Trumpet, Euphonium, Electric Bass, Percussion http://www.Geocities.com/Vienna/Studio/7875/ (630) 983-1985 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 17:54:28 -0500 From: James Gicking Subject: advice on in-ear monitoring systems? Any of you folks out there experienced with either hard-wired or wireless in-ear monitoring systems? I have in mind custom molded earpieces that would protect what's left of my hearing. I've been looking for a solution to the rock/salsa playing situations and its very unsatisfying trying to play w/ earplugs, even the -10dB variety. The sound of my trombone through the air is bad enough, through my skull... Seems that this kind of monitoring, if used by all in the group, would allow eliminating the wedge monitors, cut down on overall SPLs and allow for cleaner mixes out front. So far as I can tell, this is an expensive way to go. Any recommendations? Jim ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 22:47:10 -0000 From: Keith Marr Subject: Re: [TROMBONE-L] - a little more--corrections Herr Lipp, ah yes. Well known for his recording of the Brandenburg with Herr Cutter, Herr Dryer, and Herr Piece. One of the landmarks in recorded music. S'funny, but that was recorded in Ulm. Don't detect an end of term mood on this list by any chance eh? ------------------------ Keith in Bb/F/D www.allthingsmusic.co.uk/entertainers/keith.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Drover" To: Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 8:38 PM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] [TROMBONE-L] - a little more--corrections From: "Keith Marr" > Would he by any chance be related to Heinrich Gambolputty de von Ausfernschplendenschlittercrasscrenbonfrieddiggerdangledunglebursteinvonknac kerthrasherapplebangerhorowitzticolensicgranderknottyspelltinklegrandlichgru mblemeyerspelterwasserkŸrstlichhimbleeisenbahnwagengutenabendbitteeinenŸrnbu rgerbratwustlegerspurtenmitzweimacheluberhundsfutgumberabershšnendankerkalbs fleischmittlerraucher von Hautkopft of Ulm? >>> No Keith, you're thinking of Herr Lipp, the Westfalian high note trumpet player, you know, the guy who married Bavarian oboist, Frau Nalott. A. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 17:37:40 -0600 From: Jeff Albert Subject: Re: advice on in-ear monitoring systems? I have never used them, but the subject has come up several times in various groups I work with. It is quite expensive, because from what I have gathered, the low and mid-priced versions are less than useable. That puts you spending around $800 - $1000 per station, so an 8 piece band gets expensive fast. Again, this is heresay, I haven't actually used them myself. Jeff Albert www.jeffalbert.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE- > L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of James Gicking > Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 4:54 PM > To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU > Subject: [TBN-L] advice on in-ear monitoring systems? > > Any of you folks out there experienced with either hard-wired or wireless > in-ear monitoring systems? I have in mind custom molded earpieces that > would protect what's left of my hearing. > > I've been looking for a solution to the rock/salsa playing situations and > its very unsatisfying trying to play w/ earplugs, even the -10dB variety. > The sound of my trombone through the air is bad enough, through my > skull... > > Seems that this kind of monitoring, if used by all in the group, would > allow > eliminating the wedge monitors, cut down on overall SPLs and allow for > cleaner mixes out front. So far as I can tell, this is an expensive way > to > go. Any recommendations? > > Jim ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 22:13:54 -0700 From: David Oliver Subject: De Meij Conducted Denver Concert Band OK, I had to write the bretheren that the Denver Concert Band had quite an interesting holiday concert at the Denver Botanic Gardens tonight! I got to meet Johan De Meij ("Lord of the Rings" etc.) and his friend conductor David Warble. I understand that David Warble has a house in Summit county and when I wrote Johan to tell him we did one of his other pieces at our last concert he related that he'd be in this area for the holidays to visit. Johan conducted us for his "Polish Christmas Music," and David conducted a couple of the usual concert band Christmas compositions. We actually had 4 total conductors with our musical director and associate conductor also up there at times. I ended up buying the London Symphony CD (they had a few) of Warble conducting the De Meij "Symphony No. 1, The Lord of the Rings" - as arranged for symphony obviously. They were autographing them after the concert, so of course I couldn't pass that up. The trombone related content is that I'm 99% sure that Johan is also a trombone player. I forgot to mention to him how much fun it was to ping-pong between 3rd and 4th trombone part last year when I played LOTR on my TR-181 (there were 3 of us total on 3rd and 4th parts). I wanted to relate this, as there aren't too many times a community band weanie can experience something like this. We are still crossing our fingers that Frederick Fennell will be able to conduct us in February. He was supposed to do so last year, but had suffered an accident which sidelined him for a bit. He looks to have come out of that OK though. David Oliver Broomfield, Colorado USA Trombone, Denver Concert Band www.denverconcertband.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 00:15:37 EST From: MikeSuter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: [TROMBONE-L] - a little more--corrections << Yeo-Izzo-Waage-Dyess-Suter >> Darn!! Last chair again! Mikey Bill ------------------------------ End of TROMBONE-L Digest - 28 Dec 2002 to 29 Dec 2002 (#2002-169) *****************************************************************