Subject: TROMBONE-L Digest - 25 Dec 2002 to 26 Dec 2002 (#2002-166) Date: Friday, December 27, 2002 12:00 AM From: Automatic digest processor Reply-To: "Trombones and related issues forum." To: Recipients of TROMBONE-L digests There are 36 messages totalling 1418 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Tut, tut! (16) 2. Iraqi National Symphony Orchestra featured at NYT 3. Musical Influences (9) 4. What can you tell me about Benge trombones? 5. Benge correction 6. H N White (3) 7. Trombone-L Msgs ... Save as Executables!? (2) 8. Soprano trombone 9. 4 Freshmen and 5 Trombones trombonists 10. Fwd: Re: [TBN-L] Tut, tut! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 13:49:49 -0000 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Tut, tut! OK, own up, who didn't practice yesterday? A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 08:56:24 -0500 From: "Avery, Ray (232)" Subject: Re: Tut, tut! 1/2 an hour doing a few lip slurs, scales - one octave only, and playing Christmas carols. Does that qualify as practice? We were snowed in and I was bored. Ray Avery Director, Human Resources Harvard Custom Manufacturing, Inc. 607-687-7669 -----Original Message----- From: Adrian Drover [mailto:slide.rule@ADIOS.CO.UK] Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 8:50 AM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: [TBN-L] Tut, tut! OK, own up, who didn't practice yesterday? A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 09:05:57 -0500 From: Harlan Feinstein Subject: Re: Tut, tut! Adrian> OK, own up, who didn't practice yesterday? Does it count if we played a church gig yesterday? --Harlan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 09:13:47 -0500 From: Dale Cruse Subject: Iraqi National Symphony Orchestra featured at NYT Greetings all. There¶s an interesting story in today's New York Times about the Iraqi National Symphony Orchestra losing power in their concert hall and playing by candlelight. It's also an interesting look at a country preparing to be at war soon. Here's the link: http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/26/international/middleeast/26BAGH.html (free registration required). ---- Dale Cruse www.dalecruse.com Setting you up for online success. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 14:15:54 -0000 From: Keith Marr Subject: Re: Tut, tut! Sorry Adrian I'll practice twice as long today if that's okay. ------------------------ Keith in Bb/F/D www.allthingsmusic.co.uk/entertainers/keith.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Drover" To: Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 1:49 PM Subject: [TBN-L] Tut, tut! > OK, own up, who didn't practice yesterday? > > A ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 08:54:47 -0600 From: Pat & Jo McFarland Subject: Re: Tut, tut! I practiced the euphonium. Does that count? Happy Holidays!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Drover" To: Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 7:49 AM Subject: [TBN-L] Tut, tut! > OK, own up, who didn't practice yesterday? > > A. > > Adrian Drover > ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk > Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 09:59:32 -0500 From: "Paul D. Kemp Jr." Subject: Musical Influences Dear List, I trust that everyone had a very Merry Christmas. Around Thanksgiving, and I suppose that this would really be more appropriate for that holiday, I got to thinking that it might be interesting to stop and remember some of the people who were very strong influences. Since this is a new thread, I'll start it off. As most of you know, I was a rather late starter on the trombone (age 13). However, I started piano lessons in 1969 (I was 8 years old). My first teacher was a dear lady named Millicent Eddington. As a matter of fact, after I got married, my parents went back to North Dakota, and they looked her up, and she was still alive, and living in an assisted living facility. She told my parents that she had a suspicion that I would make something out of myself musically. Playing the piano in church was a very important part of my training, even at that young age. I'll never forget the first religious song that I learned to play from the old sheet music--it was the old Stuart Hamblen song Until Then, and there were stretches of a 10th in the left hand, and I used to work on spreading my hands between the fingers and also between the thumb and pinkie. Thankfully, my hands grew as I got older, and that made that obstacle less and less of a problem. In 1970, my family moved from North Dakota back to Brunswick, Maryland, and my piano training was put on hold for a pretty good while, but I used to listen to church pianists all of the time, Being young, I used to think that the more notes that you could play, the better. It was the old evangelistic style of congregational hymn accompaniment, and the best person that I ever heard was a blind man named Clifford Bohrer. He was a very gracious man, and he had a touch that was just beautiful, and he played on Sunday nights at a church that my aunt and uncle attended in Martinsburg, WV. The fact that he was blind didn't seem to hinder him whatsoever, because the other senses really made up for the fact that he couldn't see. Once he met you, he never forgot you, and I thought he was really magnificent. I used to beg my parents to take me to church there just so that I could hear him play. He's been dead for a number of years now, but I still remember that touch and the sound that he could get out of that old upright piano. I still play the piano, and there was a time that I used to put quite a bit of money in my pocket and bread on the table playing solo piano gigs and also small combo gigs, so naturally, I listened to Oscar Peterson, Bill Evans, Andre Previn, Art Tatum, the truly great pianists. If it did nothing else for me, it got me through college without having to take piano lessons, and I didn't have to worry about passing a piano proficiency exam. I also didn't have too much trouble with music theory (until I got into 20th century techniques) or ear training either. As a matter of fact, I feel strongly that we would have more successful musicians in general if they would study the piano for several years before they take up any other instrument. I know that some of you out there would probably disagree, but it definitely didn't hurt me any. Well, since this is a trombone list, I guess that I had better mention a few trombone players who have been influential on me as well. The first one was my first teacher, Dave Summers, who is retired from the Kennedy Center Opera Orchestra. The sound that he got was just beautiful. He was a very strict task master, and he wouldn't tolerate any mistakes. He was responsible for getting my fundamentals of playing the horn really grounded well. My students now think I'm pretty tough, and I am, but I'm not anything like he was. He really didn't care how much you had to practice, he just wanted it right. In 1977, Dave brought Glenn Dodson to the Shenandoah College and Conservatory of Music for a Trombone Day, and it was on Easter Monday, so I went. I never heard the tenor trombone sound like that. That pretty much pointed me in the direction that I took after that. Of course, I listened to all of the older big band recordings that I could get my hands on, and I remember listening to an old recording of the Air Force Band with Larry Wiehe playing a piece called A Trombone Chronology, and really admired the way that he could get around the horn. Doug Yeo has mentioned the gospel trombonist Bill Pearce, and my parents had a recording at home of him playing with an old group called Dick Anthony's 16 Singing Men. He played a song called Just a Little While, and he was simply magnificent. Harry Maddox, the retired principal with the Atlanta Symphony, was another major influence. The thing that really got my attention was the pure sound that he produced. I've never heard Dave Steinmeyer live, but he has also been a major influence on me as well. The one thing that I tell my students now is that 25-30 years ago, there really weren't that many great solo trombone recordings out there, but now, with the invention of the compact disc, there are more trombone recordings out there now than you can shake a stick at. There's really no excuse for anyone not becoming a very good player who really wants to become one. The important thing, I think, is to begin to form a musical concept in your brain as early as possible, regardless of what you play or what style of music that you prefer to listen to. Listen, listen, listen. Imitate, imitate, imitate. The internet wasn't around 25-30 years ago either, and there's absolutely great information out there by just clicking a mouse. With this year coming to a close, let's all resolve to reflect on our earlier influences, and also to continue to grow as musicians, and as people. Warm Regards, Paul Kemp Chattanooga Symphony www.trbnplyr.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 15:03:49 +0000 From: "J.c. Sherman" Subject: Re: What can you tell me about Benge trombones? There really wasn't any difference between the 7B and 8B other than the bell. I know someone who assembled both, and I interact with the parts catalogue from Allied and UMI frequently. However, there were some mutant prototype 8B's with a dual bore (.562/.580) slides. It qualified as earth-moving equipment. I don't really find the Benges mimic Bach much, or Conn - rather they are decended from King. They definitely have the edge and response of the older King 4B. I know the .500 Benge was a replacement for the 2B+ (or 2B Special - I never can quite get Benge/King nomenclature straight). The main difference between the King and the Benge was the brass tuning slide, as opposed to the nickel-silver Kings. I happen to love the Benge, and though I bought a Bach as my only tenor, I really want a Benge for my second ax. I sometimes have a little buyers remorse that I didn't go the Benge route. Why I got the Bach is a long story, but I like the horn, so I can't complain. The Benges have a more clear, dark sound. richer in higher harmonics with a light core. Too bad they're gone... Sometime I think I'll give in and build a Benge/King hybrid. Might be fun. And yeah, the 290 Benge was essentially a hybrid 7B/8B with yellow brass slide, it's own leadpipe (I understand there are a few "accidental" King 7B's with this leadpipe), a unique Gb wrap (on some of them) and a compromise 10-ish bell. I mourn the loss of this marque. J.c. Sherman > for what it's worth, I had always thought that the difference between > the 7b and 8b was the bell size....was there any other differences? > > Steve Carr wrote: > > > > you didn't specifically mention bass trombones but it seems that the Benge > > 290 is derived from the King 8b. The turning slides are interchangeable and > > the value wraps are very similar. Perhaps the tuning slide of the 7b and 8b > > are interchangeable too but I've just never seen the them side by side. As > > far as playing/sounding it does seem a step towards Bach from a Conn(King). > > > > for what it's worth > > Steve > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Trombones and related issues forum. > > > [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU]On Behalf Of sabutin > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2002 5:28 AM > > > To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU > > > Subject: [TBN-L] What can you tell me about Benge trombones? > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all... > > > > > > I have played a couple of Benge trombones recently that I found quite > > > interesting. I know very little about them, except that they are > > > currently produced by UMI. One was a .547 horn about 3 years old, the > > > other a straight tenor that appeared to be a .525...played like a > > > good 78H. I think it was at least 10 years old. > > > > > > Anyone here play them? Know anything about their history? Is there > > > a pre-UMI history? Highs + lows like Conn has gone through? Quality > > > issues? Favorite models + sizes? Do they seem to have their own > > > "personality", like Conn or Bach? Why are they not more popular? > > > > > > Any info at all would be appreciated. > > > > > > Thanks... > > > > > > Sam Burtis > > > -- > > > (Sam Burtis, proud proprietor of The Trombone Store in NYC, featuring > > > only the finest new and used lower brass instruments and accessories. > > > Visit us on the web at [still under > > > construction], email us at , or call us at > > > [718] 796-4413. By appointment only.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 15:12:59 +0000 From: "J.c. Sherman" Subject: Re: Tut, tut! Yeah - I did a gig - I need a break! I was cooking the turkey afterwards... Okay, lame excuse... J.c. > Adrian> OK, own up, who didn't practice yesterday? > > Does it count if we played a church gig yesterday? > > --Harlan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 15:14:03 +0000 From: "J.c. Sherman" Subject: Re: Tut, tut! Boooooo!! Just kidding... J.c. > I practiced the euphonium. Does that count? > > Happy Holidays!! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Adrian Drover" > To: > Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 7:49 AM > Subject: [TBN-L] Tut, tut! > > > > OK, own up, who didn't practice yesterday? > > > > A. > > > > Adrian Drover > > ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk > > Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 15:17:25 +0000 From: "J.c. Sherman" Subject: Benge correction Whoops.... The Benge had a brass MAIN-slide, and the Kings of the period had nickel silver MAIN slides. Sorry for the screw-up. Gigs from 2pm to 2am x-mas eve and 6:30 wakeup on x-mas for gigs til 1pm. Still recouperating.... J.c. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 10:35:22 -0500 From: "Avery, Ray (232)" Subject: Re: Musical Influences I find it encouraging to read about all the musicians who got their start in a church. I too began with the piano but only for a year or so and never really caught on to playing all those notes at once. In college I majored in music theory with bass trombone as my performance instrument. Whenever I sat at the piano I preferred to write music or work on ideas rather than practice. There were two major influences on me. First was John W. Petersen, a composer of sacred music. I envisioned myself as the next JWP writing Christmas and Easter cantatas. I have written 3 cantatas that my church choir has performed, but I'm not a JWP. Second and more importantly, was Bill Pearce. I also had a couple of Bill's recordings, one he even autographed. After all these years they are quite scratchy from repeated use. I also bought all his books of sacred solos - some of which Doug Yeo has listed on his website. To me he epitomized trombone playing - my goal was to sound like Bill. As a church musician, to this day when I play trombone solos Bill's sound is my "gold standard". Ah...I almost overlooked one other new influence. Doug Yeo. Doug has been a role model with his music, an encourager, at times a long distance teacher, and even a friend. Thanks Paul, good topic. Ray Avery Director, Human Resources Harvard Custom Manufacturing, Inc. 607-687-7669 -----Original Message----- From: Paul D. Kemp Jr. [mailto:paul@TRBNPLYR.COM] Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 10:00 AM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: [TBN-L] Musical Influences Dear List, I trust that everyone had a very Merry Christmas. Around Thanksgiving, and I suppose that this would really be more appropriate for that holiday, I got to thinking that it might be interesting to stop and remember some of the people who were very strong influences. Since this is a new thread, I'll start it off. As most of you know, I was a rather late starter on the trombone (age 13). However, I started piano lessons in 1969 (I was 8 years old). My first teacher was a dear lady named Millicent Eddington. As a matter of fact, after I got married, my parents went back to North Dakota, and they looked her up, and she was still alive, and living in an assisted living facility. She told my parents that she had a suspicion that I would make something out of myself musically. Playing the piano in church was a very important part of my training, even at that young age. I'll never forget the first religious song that I learned to play from the old sheet music--it was the old Stuart Hamblen song Until Then, and there were stretches of a 10th in the left hand, and I used to work on spreading my hands between the fingers and also between the thumb and pinkie. Thankfully, my hands grew as I got older, and that made that obstacle less and less of a problem. In 1970, my family moved from North Dakota back to Brunswick, Maryland, and my piano training was put on hold for a pretty good while, but I used to listen to church pianists all of the time, Being young, I used to think that the more notes that you could play, the better. It was the old evangelistic style of congregational hymn accompaniment, and the best person that I ever heard was a blind man named Clifford Bohrer. He was a very gracious man, and he had a touch that was just beautiful, and he played on Sunday nights at a church that my aunt and uncle attended in Martinsburg, WV. The fact that he was blind didn't seem to hinder him whatsoever, because the other senses really made up for the fact that he couldn't see. Once he met you, he never forgot you, and I thought he was really magnificent. I used to beg my parents to take me to church there just so that I could hear him play. He's been dead for a number of years now, but I still remember that touch and the sound that he could get out of that old upright piano. I still play the piano, and there was a time that I used to put quite a bit of money in my pocket and bread on the table playing solo piano gigs and also small combo gigs, so naturally, I listened to Oscar Peterson, Bill Evans, Andre Previn, Art Tatum, the truly great pianists. If it did nothing else for me, it got me through college without having to take piano lessons, and I didn't have to worry about passing a piano proficiency exam. I also didn't have too much trouble with music theory (until I got into 20th century techniques) or ear training either. As a matter of fact, I feel strongly that we would have more successful musicians in general if they would study the piano for several years before they take up any other instrument. I know that some of you out there would probably disagree, but it definitely didn't hurt me any. Well, since this is a trombone list, I guess that I had better mention a few trombone players who have been influential on me as well. The first one was my first teacher, Dave Summers, who is retired from the Kennedy Center Opera Orchestra. The sound that he got was just beautiful. He was a very strict task master, and he wouldn't tolerate any mistakes. He was responsible for getting my fundamentals of playing the horn really grounded well. My students now think I'm pretty tough, and I am, but I'm not anything like he was. He really didn't care how much you had to practice, he just wanted it right. In 1977, Dave brought Glenn Dodson to the Shenandoah College and Conservatory of Music for a Trombone Day, and it was on Easter Monday, so I went. I never heard the tenor trombone sound like that. That pretty much pointed me in the direction that I took after that. Of course, I listened to all of the older big band recordings that I could get my hands on, and I remember listening to an old recording of the Air Force Band with Larry Wiehe playing a piece called A Trombone Chronology, and really admired the way that he could get around the horn. Doug Yeo has mentioned the gospel trombonist Bill Pearce, and my parents had a recording at home of him playing with an old group called Dick Anthony's 16 Singing Men. He played a song called Just a Little While, and he was simply magnificent. Harry Maddox, the retired principal with the Atlanta Symphony, was another major influence. The thing that really got my attention was the pure sound that he produced. I've never heard Dave Steinmeyer live, but he has also been a major influence on me as well. The one thing that I tell my students now is that 25-30 years ago, there really weren't that many great solo trombone recordings out there, but now, with the invention of the compact disc, there are more trombone recordings out there now than you can shake a stick at. There's really no excuse for anyone not becoming a very good player who really wants to become one. The important thing, I think, is to begin to form a musical concept in your brain as early as possible, regardless of what you play or what style of music that you prefer to listen to. Listen, listen, listen. Imitate, imitate, imitate. The internet wasn't around 25-30 years ago either, and there's absolutely great information out there by just clicking a mouse. With this year coming to a close, let's all resolve to reflect on our earlier influences, and also to continue to grow as musicians, and as people. Warm Regards, Paul Kemp Chattanooga Symphony www.trbnplyr.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 10:53:57 -0500 From: Denver Seifried Subject: Re: Musical Influences Very interesting, Paul, that you were a late "starter" on the trombone. I was, also, one of those people who began playing trombone at a later age. As my father was a trumpet player, who grew up playing in theater orchestras and dance bands, prior to WWII, I always remember going up into a large closet, in our house and looking at his trunk full of music and books, like Arban's and a lot of quick-step march books (Will Huff, Bennett, etc.). I also would take his trumpet our of its case and try to make some sounds on it. By the time fifth grade rolled around, I was ready for band, since this was after WWII and my dad never got back to playing, after he came back from the war, I used his silver Conn to begin in band. Television was very new at this time (1953) and I remember watching a lot of music on TV. Somewhere between 5th grade and 7th grade, I decided I wanted to switch to tuba; so, at the start of junior high school, I became a tuba player. Keeping with by bass thing, I was also approached by my junior high orchestra director to begin string bass, also. I played both instruments into high school, and really became more interested in music, especially Dixieland jazz. I met a tenor sax player in my home town who introduced me to more modern jazz, at that time (trombone content--his daughter went on to become a very fine jazz singer in Cincinnati and is married to jazz- great trombonist-Eddie Morgan). My jazz friend, Hugh Chamberlain, loaned me recordings and really got me listening to guys like J.J., Rosolino, and Bob Brookmeyer. Hugh had a friend who was wanting to sell a valve bone; so he told me, and I few days latter I was a proud owner of a Conn 5G valve bone. I played it in our high school dance band and took it with me when I went on to attend Bowling Green State Univ., as a tuba/string bass music ed. major. At BGSU, I met my tuba teacher, Dave Glasmire, who, even today, is my guiding force, for my becoming a (slide) trombone player. During tuba lessons, I would just totally marvel at the great trombone playing Dave did during my lessons; and I just had to be able to do that, also! Sometime during my junior year, I purchased a slide for my Conn 5G and immediately turned it into a Conn 6H. I dropped my tuba and bass lessons and began to concentrate on trombone. Since high school, I was also a great fan of the bass trombone, as I listened to a lot of great recordings with guys like George Roberts and Kenny Shroyer; and knew someday I would have to play bass trombone. I began my public school teaching career and taught for two years, all the while practicing my trombone several hours daily, in the evening. I applied for the grad school at UNT (then North Texas State U.) and was accepted to study with Leon Brown. I worked very hard and was able to complete my MM in one, entire year and moved back to Ohio for 28 more years of public school teaching. My first year back to Ohio, after Texas, I purchased my first bass trombone, a Reynolds two-valve, and it has been bass trombone ever since! Hope everyone on the trombone-list has had a very Merry Christmas! Denny Seifried Bass Trombone-Springfield (OH) Symphony & Dayton Jazz Orchestra Adjunct Trombone-Wittenberg Univ. Dept. of Music ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 16:12:44 -0000 From: Keith Marr Subject: H N White Hi listers everywhere, hope Christmas was good to you. Can anyone tell me when H N White became the King Instrument Company? How did this come about - i.e. did King already exist and take Whites over or was it a merger or something? ------------------------ Keith in Bb/F/D www.allthingsmusic.co.uk/entertainers/keith.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 10:14:59 -0600 From: Harry Wootan Subject: Trombone-L Msgs ... Save as Executables!? I usually double-click to read a message on this list [from within the digest]. But the last couple of digests contain some messages that [when double-clicked] open a file-selector box for me to save a ".exe" file. Other messages in the same digests open for reading as usual. But some seem to want to be saved as a ".exe" file. For example, in the thread regarding Benge trombones, the first 2 messages [from Sabutin and Greenhoe] are fine. But the subsequent messages cause the file selector to be opened. The HTML source doesn't look any different for the entries in the digest listing. Anyone else experiencing this? -- Harry hpw@mindspring.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 16:27:04 -0000 From: Keith Marr Subject: Re: Musical Influences > I find it encouraging to read about all the musicians who got their start in > a church. Following on from this, I wonder just how many brass players started in the Salvation Army. Yes, I did! I remember that pre-war S&A factory peashooter with some affection, even though it was tough trying to get any tone from it. Other musical influences? In no particular order: Tamla Mowtown, Tchaikovsky, Dvorak, Arvo Part, Alan Hovhaness, Don Lusher, Dudley Bright, Denis Wick, little cup cakes (. . . er no, error crept in there!), Guinness, God, Steve Reich, and, of course, JJ. Also, without wanting to sound like a creep, this list is a major influence now. I didn't play for about eight years and joined up when I started playing again. This very lively and knowledgeable list brought me up to date with issues very quickly. ------------------------ Keith in Bb/F/D www.allthingsmusic.co.uk/entertainers/keith.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 11:29:19 EST From: BassBonist@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Tut, tut! slide.rule@ADIOS.CO.UK writes: > OK, own up, who didn't practice yesterday? I confess. Matt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 10:31:45 -0600 From: "Richard Z. Johnson" Subject: Re: Tut, tut! I didn't even think about practicing yesterday. I did, however, enjoy my Christmas meal: 1. Turducken......it is a turkey stuffed with a duck stuffed with a chicken stuffed with rice dressing. 2. Cornbread dressing. 3. Green beans. 4. Cranberry sauce. 5. Bread pudding with a bourbon sauce. 6. Gumbo provided our usual Christmas Eve meal -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of Adrian Drover Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 7:50 AM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: [TBN-L] Tut, tut! OK, own up, who didn't practice yesterday? A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 10:35:13 -0600 From: "Richard Z. Johnson" Subject: Re: Musical Influences I wholeheartedly agree. I wish that I had taken piano lessons when I was younger and had more time. -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul D. Kemp Jr. Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 9:00 AM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: [TBN-L] Musical Influences Dear List, As a matter of fact, I feel strongly that we would have more successful musicians in general if they would study the piano for several years before they take up any other instrument. I know that some of you out there would probably disagree, but it definitely didn't hurt me any. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 16:41:26 -0000 From: Keith Marr Subject: Soprano trombone Jupiter slide trumpet/soprano trombone in Bb for sale. Over £200 new, will accept o.i.r.o. £150. Excellent condition, hardly used (couldn't cope with the small mouthpiece) complete with case and Jupiter mouthpiece. Enquiries off list please, to mail@gothicway.fsnet.co.uk Cheers! ------------------------ Keith in Bb/F/D www.allthingsmusic.co.uk/entertainers/keith.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 16:56:37 +0000 From: "J.c. Sherman" Subject: Re: Musical Influences Amen. If I'm lucky enough to have children, they, like me, won't be allowed to touch another instrument without a year of Piano. J.c. Sherman > I wholeheartedly agree. I wish that I had taken piano lessons when I was > younger and had more time. > -----Original Message----- > From: Trombones and related issues forum. > [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul D. Kemp Jr. > Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 9:00 AM > To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU > Subject: [TBN-L] Musical Influences > > Dear List, > As a matter of fact, I feel strongly that we would have > more successful musicians in general if they would study the piano for > several years before they take up any other instrument. I know that some > of > you out there would probably disagree, but it definitely didn't hurt me > any. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 09:05:56 -0800 From: David Leep Subject: Re: H N White It wasn't a merger or takeover; both names were used from the start, the company being named after the founder Henderson White, while their premier trombone models were named after trombonist Thomas King who helped develop them. With thanks to UMI for this historical link: http://www.unitedmusical.com/King/histinfo.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Marr" To: Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 8:12 AM Subject: [TBN-L] H N White > Hi listers everywhere, hope Christmas was good to you. > > Can anyone tell me when H N White became the King Instrument Company? How > did this come about - i.e. did King already exist and take Whites over or > was it a merger or something? > ------------------------ > Keith in Bb/F/D > www.allthingsmusic.co.uk/entertainers/keith.htm > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 09:10:02 -0800 From: Randy Fendrick Subject: Re: Tut, tut! I got two days practice out of the way by playing midnight Mass. Besides that the bread was good and I don't mean Communion. later, Randy Fendrick On Thursday, December 26, 2002, at 06:05 AM, Harlan Feinstein wrote: > Adrian> OK, own up, who didn't practice yesterday? > > Does it count if we played a church gig yesterday? > > --Harlan > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 17:09:30 +0000 From: alan partis Subject: Re: Musical Influences Hmm, who were my early musical influences? Interesting thread/topic and it gets me thinking ... and I come to this conclusion: I have to give most of the credit, not to any particular performer or teacher, but to my mother. She was an elementary instrumental music teacher and consequently it was clear to me as far back as I can remember that I would be involved in instrumental music in some way. There were certainly many teachers along the way, but I think all of them focused on the mechanics, or at least that's all I comprehended. I began with violin at 4 years old, started piano a couple years later, and added trombone by age 8. I eventually dropped both violin and piano (and organ) by 13 or 14, but have remained with trombone throughout high school and college. During that time I rarely listened to any other trombone players, though I was definitely a music fan, but more familiar with the likes of Chuck Mangione and Maurice Andre (has he EVER missed a note?) and Allen Vizutti. After college I put the horn away and thought I might never play much again until one day I was listening to a Canadian Brass album and began reminiscing about my college days in the trombone ensemble. That is when I fully realized what my musical driving force was: me and my desire to perform. I vowed then and there that I would one day again achieve a high enough playing level to play in a decent brass quintet and even get paid to play in a trombone ensemble. Now, as I return to the trombone with perhaps more seriousness than ever before (and certainly a much greater appreciation) there are new sources of inspiration and influence that I will exploit. I have a much better image in my mind as to what I'm seeking in my playing and can more easily embark on my journey toward my goals. I'd like to echo Keith's remark and credit some of the members of this list with providing much knowledge and information, but mostly deepening my curiosity and sparking many questions for me to follow up on. I too concur with Paul's thought that learning piano early makes playing another instrument later a lot easier. To this day I think of scales in terms of the piano keyboard and having learned them first on piano -- it made playing trombone in various keys much less daunting. It was also very helpful having a knowledge of treble clef when it came to transposing on the fly. With piano, one can concentrate on learning the notes on the page and creating music and not on other "distractions" like embouchure, breath control, intonation, etc. In fact, the only thing I DO blame my mother for, is allowing me to quit playing piano in junior high school! Oh, and yes, I did practice yesterday even if only for 40 minutes. ______________________________________ alan partis, amateur bonehead louisville, ky ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 17:20:57 +0000 From: Michael Shoshani Subject: Re: H N White The H. N. White Company became King Musical Instruments in the mid 1960s, after Edna (Mrs. H. N.) White sold the company to a group of investors, who in turn sold it to the Seeburg corporation, makers of jukeboxes, electronic instruments, and who knows what else. H. N. White's premier line of instruments was known as "King" after Cleveland trombonist Thomas King, who co-developed a new trombone design with Henderson N. White in 1893. The White Company produced student lines under several names (Gladiator, and after 1925 Cleveland), but the main professional line was known as King. After the White family lost control of the company, my guess is that the corporate marketeers decided that the name of the instrument should take precedence, and not the name of the family. Michael Shoshani Chicago IL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 12:28:33 -0500 From: Dale Cruse Subject: Re: Tut, tut! On 12/26/02 11:31 AM, "Richard Z. Johnson" wrote: > I didn't even think about practicing yesterday. I did, however, enjoy my > Christmas meal: > > 1. Turducken......it is a turkey stuffed with a duck stuffed with a > chicken stuffed with rice dressing. I have to admit I thought this was a joke until I did a web search and found the recipe. Fascinating. But why stop there? You're probably saying to yourself, "Dale, I have nearly 100 people at my holiday table and want to feed them all. How about a recipe for stuffed camel?" Well, I aim to please and here it is, reprinted: Whole Stuffed Camel In a cookbook called International Cuisine, presented by California Home Economics Teachers, 1983 (ISBN 0-89626-051-8), you will find: Stuffed Camel 1 whole camel, medium size 1 whole lamb, large size 20 whole chickens, medium size 60 eggs 12 kilos rice 2 kilos pine nuts 2 kilos almonds 1 kilo pistachio nuts 110 gallons water 5 pounds black pepper Salt to taste Skin, trim and clean camel (once you get over the hump), lamb and chicken. Boil until tender. Cook rice until fluffy. Fry nuts until brown and mix with rice. Hard boil eggs and peel. Stuff cooked chickens with hard boiled eggs and rice. Stuff the cooked lamb with stuffed chickens. Add more rice. Stuff the camel with the stuffed lamb and add rest of rice. Broil over large charcoal pit until brown. Spread any remaining rice on large tray and place camel on top of rice. Decorate with boiled eggs and nuts. Serves friendly crowd of 80-100. Shararazod Eboli Home Economist, Dammam, Saudi Arabia ---- Dale Cruse www.dalecruse.com Setting you up for online success. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 17:36:16 -0000 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: Musical Influences From: "Richard Z. Johnson" Re: Paul D. Kemp Jr.'s > As a matter of fact, I feel strongly that we would have > more successful musicians in general if they would study the piano for > several years before they take up any other instrument. > I wholeheartedly agree. I wish that I had taken piano lessons when I was > younger and had more time. I don't know. As an arranger at least, I think proficiency as a pianist may have had a detrimental influence on my chosen art. Without it as a crutch, I have been forced to listen more mentally than mechanically. I admit tho' that the keyboard has become useful as an input tool now that I have joined the growing throng that uses electronic manuscript paper, but then I don't need the ability of a concert pianist for that purpose. I'm also thankful that I learned orchestration and composition before computer scoring became a reality. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 17:46:36 -0000 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: Tut, tut! Well then, I guess you were too stuffed to do any practice after that meal. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk From: "Dale Cruse" > Stuffed Camel > > 1 whole camel, medium size > 1 whole lamb, large size > 20 whole chickens, medium size > 60 eggs > 12 kilos rice > 2 kilos pine nuts > 2 kilos almonds > 1 kilo pistachio nuts > 110 gallons water > 5 pounds black pepper > Salt to taste > > Skin, trim and clean camel (once you get over the hump), lamb and chicken. > Boil until tender. Cook rice until fluffy. Fry nuts until brown and mix with > rice. Hard boil eggs and peel. Stuff cooked chickens with hard boiled eggs > and rice. Stuff the cooked lamb with stuffed chickens. Add more rice. Stuff > the camel with the stuffed lamb and add rest of rice. Broil over large > charcoal pit until brown. Spread any remaining rice on large tray and place > camel on top of rice. Decorate with boiled eggs and nuts. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 12:16:36 -0600 From: Listmonitor Trombone-L Subject: Re: Trombone-L Msgs ... Save as Executables!? The issue causing this was that the mail preference was set to HTML digests. The standard setting for digests should not cause this (please notice the use of the word "should", rather than "will not"). If this does not correct the problem, please advise. LM On 12/26/02 10:14 AM, "Harry Wootan" wrote: > I usually double-click to read a message on this list [from within the > digest]. But the last couple of digests contain some messages that [when > double-clicked] open a file-selector box for me to save a ".exe" file. > > Other messages in the same digests open for reading as usual. But some > seem to want to be saved as a ".exe" file. > > For example, in the thread regarding Benge trombones, the first 2 > messages [from Sabutin and Greenhoe] are fine. But the subsequent > messages cause the file selector to be opened. The HTML source doesn't > look any different for the entries in the digest listing. > > Anyone else experiencing this? > > -- Harry > hpw@mindspring.com > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 12:45:17 -0600 From: Phil Brink Subject: Re: Tut, tut! Are you implying that he's like a camel? Tut, tut indeed! -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU]On Behalf Of Adrian Drover Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 11:47 AM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Tut, tut! Well then, I guess you were too stuffed to do any practice after that meal. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk From: "Dale Cruse" > Stuffed Camel > > 1 whole camel, medium size > 1 whole lamb, large size > 20 whole chickens, medium size > 60 eggs > 12 kilos rice > 2 kilos pine nuts > 2 kilos almonds > 1 kilo pistachio nuts > 110 gallons water > 5 pounds black pepper > Salt to taste > > Skin, trim and clean camel (once you get over the hump), lamb and chicken. > Boil until tender. Cook rice until fluffy. Fry nuts until brown and mix with > rice. Hard boil eggs and peel. Stuff cooked chickens with hard boiled eggs > and rice. Stuff the cooked lamb with stuffed chickens. Add more rice. Stuff > the camel with the stuffed lamb and add rest of rice. Broil over large > charcoal pit until brown. Spread any remaining rice on large tray and place > camel on top of rice. Decorate with boiled eggs and nuts. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 12:58:27 -0600 From: Billy Cordova Subject: Re: Tut, tut! I confess, I didn't! But, after playing Midnight Mass, I thought I coud get away with it. Billy Cordova I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it - Voltaire St. Cecilia, pray for us ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Drover" To: Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 7:49 AM Subject: [TBN-L] Tut, tut! > OK, own up, who didn't practice yesterday? > > A. > > Adrian Drover > ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk > Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 12:02:10 -0800 From: Sharman king Subject: 4 Freshmen and 5 Trombones trombonists Alan Charlesworth asked about the trombonists on the 4 Freshmen and Five Trombonists recording They are: Frank Rosolino, Harry Betts Jr., Milt Bernhardt, Tommy Pederson, and George Roberts. But, better still some of the same arrangements are on the Pete Rugolo 10 Trombones like 2 Pianos (Mercury PPS2001) with the same players plus Bob Fitzpatrick, Bob Pring, Vern Friley, Herbie Harper, Joe Howard, Dick nash, Dick Noel, Russ Brown and Ken Shroyer. It was recorded in May of 1960. Happy listening! Sharman King in Vancouver BC ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 13:10:49 -0800 From: "Joe L. Norcross" Subject: Re: Tut, tut! Practice? Who me Joe L. Norcross Tuba: Visalia CA Sequoia Winds Bass Trombone: Clovis CA Community Band Tuba and Announcer: Kingsburg CA City Band joetuba@lightspeed.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Drover" To: Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 5:49 AM Subject: [TBN-L] Tut, tut! > OK, own up, who didn't practice yesterday? > > A. > > Adrian Drover > ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk > Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 21:19:37 +0000 From: Daniel Pliskin Subject: Re: Tut, tut! > >OK, own up, who didn't practice yesterday? > I practiced infinite patience yesterday. I spent the day with my extended family. You know, ÒfamilyÓ is a bunch of people that you are in relationship with, even though they would never be friends. Surely thereÕs a use for infinite patience when playing trombone? DanP _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_eliminateviruses_3mf ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 16:57:44 -0800 From: Tom Izzo Subject: Fwd: Re: [TBN-L] Tut, tut! --- Tom Izzo wrote: > Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 16:56:24 -0800 (PST) > From: Tom Izzo > Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Tut, tut! > To: Phil Brink > > > --- Phil Brink wrote: > > Are you implying that he's like a camel? Tut, tut > > indeed! > > > > Or that he'd "walk a mile for a camel"? > LOL > > Is that one hump or two? > :-) > > Tom > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Trombones and related issues forum. > > [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU]On Behalf Of > > Adrian Drover > > Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 11:47 AM > > To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU > > Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Tut, tut! > > > > > > Well then, I guess you were too stuffed to do any > > practice after that meal. > > > > A. > > > > Adrian Drover > > ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk > > Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk > > > > > > From: "Dale Cruse" > > > > > Stuffed Camel > > > > > > 1 whole camel, medium size > > > 1 whole lamb, large size > > > 20 whole chickens, medium size > > > 60 eggs > > > 12 kilos rice > > > 2 kilos pine nuts > > > 2 kilos almonds > > > 1 kilo pistachio nuts > > > 110 gallons water > > > 5 pounds black pepper > > > Salt to taste > > > > > > Skin, trim and clean camel (once you get over > the > > hump), lamb and chicken. > > > Boil until tender. Cook rice until fluffy. Fry > > nuts until brown and mix > > with > > > rice. Hard boil eggs and peel. Stuff cooked > > chickens with hard boiled eggs > > > and rice. Stuff the cooked lamb with stuffed > > chickens. Add more rice. > > Stuff > > > the camel with the stuffed lamb and add rest of > > rice. Broil over large > > > charcoal pit until brown. Spread any remaining > > rice on large tray and > > place > > > camel on top of rice. Decorate with boiled eggs > > and nuts. > > > ===== > Tom Izzo > Principal Trombonist, Bristol Renaissance Faire > Bass Trombonist, West Suburban Symphony Orchestra > Alto/Tenor/Bass/Contrabass Trombones, Tubas, Bass > Trumpet, Euphonium, Electric Bass, Percussion > http://www.Geocities.com/Vienna/Studio/7875/ > (630) 983-1985 > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up > now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > ===== Tom Izzo Principal Trombonist, Bristol Renaissance Faire Bass Trombonist, West Suburban Symphony Orchestra Alto/Tenor/Bass/Contrabass Trombones, Tubas, Bass Trumpet, Euphonium, Electric Bass, Percussion http://www.Geocities.com/Vienna/Studio/7875/ (630) 983-1985 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 20:06:59 -0600 From: Jeff Oien Subject: Re: Musical Influences In high school my band director there made sure I got with a good teacher and I started studying with Bill Richardson at UW-Madison all the way through part of college. I learned a LOT from him and he was a super nice guy so that made it all the more enjoyable to learn from him. After I had just started on bass trombone Bill suggested I take a lesson from his friend Gary Greenhoe. Bill had a lot of good things to say about Gary, talking about how as a second chair player he can change his sound to adapt to the principle etc. Gary plays bass occasionally also. He demonstrated what it is to play soft but still fill the room with sound. I realized I couldn't do that yet and that really stuck with me. Not too long after that I started another career or I would have taken more lessons from him. Every day when I warm up now I concentrate on getting that resonant room filling sound while playing soft. As we know Gary is one of the nice guys too and really seems to love what he does proving that older (sorry) orchestral musicians aren't all unhappy people just going through the motions like many that are out there. I bought a bass trombone from him back then (late 80's) and he let me pay in installments! Obviously he can't do things like that any more owning a business but it shows what kind of a guy he is. I also had the privilege of playing next to him as a sub in the Milwaukee Symphony (on tenor). That was one of the highlights of my life. What I'm trying to say is the teacher's enjoyment of what they do and how they do it is as important (or more so) as what they say. Jeff Oien ------------------------------ End of TROMBONE-L Digest - 25 Dec 2002 to 26 Dec 2002 (#2002-166) *****************************************************************