Subject: TROMBONE-L Digest - 30 Nov 2002 to 1 Dec 2002 (#2002-141) There are 15 messages totalling 602 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. What's Great 2. Bordogni Schwartz Gift 3. A Worthwhile experiment (3) 4. Help- stuck Doug Elliott Mouthpiece components (8) 5. laquer stripping 6. webpage update ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 23:44:17 -0800 From: John & Mary Subject: What's Great a long time ago, in college, we had a hypnotist put our whole class in a hypnotic state and go deep into a comfortable setting where we could talk to anybody we wanted to for a while. some talked with with arnold palmer and some with hugh hefner. i had a long and rewarding chat with jack teagarden. i asked him questions about his techniques and his drinking habits and louis armstrong. it went on for about an hour and i got an incredible amount of insight into the workings of a true artist-inventor- maverick. when the hypnotist snapped his fingers and we were all awake again, i was so thrilled with all the knowledge i had gained on my hypnotic trip. he then reminded us all that we had not spoken with anybody other that ourselves and that we hold all the answers right now. was that really bill watrous' eMail address? john boblett (not the one from ohio) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 06:33:59 -0500 From: "David A. Schwartz" Subject: Bordogni Schwartz Gift My dear trombonists: My six volumes of Bordogni vocalises with play-along audio compact disc make terrific gifts. The synthesized accompaniments, Bordogni's own piano accompaniments, make practice fun and enhance Bordogni's beautiful melodies. Teachers and students, especially adolescent students, will find new pleasure in the works, enjoying benefits to rhythm, intonation, phrasing, articulation, respiration, sight reading, and ensemble skills. Large, handsome books, free of pesky page turns, provide cues needed for coordination while adhering to markings in nineteenth century editions written for vocalists. Rochut's editorial changes are noted. Volume Seven, the duets, is a special pleasure. The nearly forgotten duets, the parts provided in separate tenor clef folios, are a welcome discovery for accomplished players. Please purchase the Bordogni Schwartz books at Hickey's Music Center, Osmun Music, Solid Brass Music, Penders Music Co., Warwick Music, or, if prepaid by check, directly from me. For further descriptions, teacher comments, samples, and a table relating the volumes to Rochut's numbers, please visit the Bordogni Schwartz web site: http://www.nyx.net/~dschwart/ May the Schwartz play with you! David David A. Schwartz Belmont, Massacusetts or ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 08:54:24 -0500 From: "Paul D. Kemp Jr." Subject: A Worthwhile experiment Dear List, I am not one to tinker with something that tends to work extremely well, but I tried something yesterday that had an extraordinary effect on my Bach 42. I ended up purchasing an Edwards T2 leadpipe, and a local technician removed my standard leadpipe. This can be somewhat of a tricky venture, but we were careful, and we were able to salvage the old leadpipe, and I purchased a couple of the collars that Bach uses for their removable leadpipe system. The Edwards T2 leadpipe definitely opened up the middle register and lower registers. I haven't had much of a chance to give it a good workout in the upper register, but I suspect that will be quite favorable as well. I used it on a rehearsal and a concert last night, and was overjoyed at the change that it made. I didn't lose the characteristic Bach sound, and the response is much freer. It is quite an easy procedure to solder the leadpipes into the Bach collars. The Edwards leadpipe did have to be altered ever so slightly, but if you have a technician that tends to be careful, then it really isn't a big deal. The threads that Edwards uses are just soldered on, so just a bit of heat will remove them from the leadpipe. I suspect that I will use the Edwards leadpipe for most things. It took the technician about 2 hours to do everything, and the price was quite affordable. So, if you have a 42 that you think could be improved somewhat, I have found this to be a worthwhile experiment. Warm Regards to everyone, Paul Kemp Chattanooga Symphony www.trbnplyr.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 08:02:59 -0600 From: Chris Waage Subject: Re: A Worthwhile experiment I had this done to a Bach 50 bass I used to own, and the repair tech I used (Mike Webb in Olathe, KS) custom machined a collar for the old leadpipe that added some mass to the receiver. After all the work was done, the modified stock leadpipe was the best performer of all. Your mileage may vary . . . Chris >Dear List, > I am not one to tinker with something that tends to work extremely well, >but I tried something yesterday that had an extraordinary effect on my Bach >42. > I ended up purchasing an Edwards T2 leadpipe, and a local technician >removed my standard leadpipe. This can be somewhat of a tricky venture, but >we were careful, and we were able to salvage the old leadpipe, and I >purchased a couple of the collars that Bach uses for their removable >leadpipe system. The Edwards T2 leadpipe definitely opened up the middle >register and lower registers. I haven't had much of a chance to give it a >good workout in the upper register, but I suspect that will be quite >favorable as well. I used it on a rehearsal and a concert last night, and >was overjoyed at the change that it made. I didn't lose the characteristic >Bach sound, and the response is much freer. > It is quite an easy procedure to solder the leadpipes into the Bach >collars. The Edwards leadpipe did have to be altered ever so slightly, but >if you have a technician that tends to be careful, then it really isn't a >big deal. The threads that Edwards uses are just soldered on, so just a bit >of heat will remove them from the leadpipe. > I suspect that I will use the Edwards leadpipe for most things. It took >the technician about 2 hours to do everything, and the price was quite >affordable. So, if you have a 42 that you think could be improved somewhat, >I have found this to be a worthwhile experiment. > >Warm Regards to everyone, > >Paul Kemp >Chattanooga Symphony >www.trbnplyr.com -- ________________________________________________ Chris Waage, Associate Webmaster chris@trombone.org http://www.trombone.org - A web site for trombonists ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 11:44:48 -0500 From: Peter Fielding Subject: Help- stuck Doug Elliott Mouthpiece components Hello, two months ago I did an exhaustive cleaning of my mouthpieces. I was delighted to see my various DE mouthpiece parts all glimering like new. This image of beauty came at a high price as for the past month I have been trying to separate the rim, cup, and shank of my primary set up from each other with no luck (squeaky clean threading makes for a stiff friction fitting). I have tried rubber gloves, WD-40, as well as the help of my stronger friends with no success. I was hoping that someone may have some ideas before I start using my uncle's plumbing tools! -Peter Fielding ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 11:50:27 -0500 From: Dale Cruse Subject: Re: Help- stuck Doug Elliott Mouthpiece components I would suggest contacting Doug Elliott directly for advice before whipping out tools. Also, have you tried a penetrating oil like Liquid Wrench? --- Dale Cruse www.dalecruse.com Setting you up for online success. On Sunday, December 1, 2002, at 11:44 AM, Peter Fielding wrote: > Hello, > > two months ago I did an exhaustive cleaning of my mouthpieces. I was > delighted > to see my various DE mouthpiece parts all glimering like new. This > image of > beauty came at a high price as for the past month I have been trying to > separate the rim, cup, and shank of my primary set up from each other > with no > luck (squeaky clean threading makes for a stiff friction fitting). I > have > tried rubber gloves, WD-40, as well as the help of my stronger friends > with no > success. I was hoping that someone may have some ideas before I start > using my > uncle's plumbing tools! > > > -Peter Fielding ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 12:51:37 EST From: BassBonist@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Help- stuck Doug Elliott Mouthpiece components > I have been trying to > separate the rim, cup, and shank of my primary set up from each other with > no > luck (squeaky clean threading makes for a stiff friction fitting). I have > tried rubber gloves, WD-40, as well as the help of my stronger friends with > no > success. Here's what I would do. First, borrow two pair of soft-jawed pliers. These are similar to Channel-lock pliers but have a soft, white rubber pad on each set of jaws. Grip the cup with one set and the shank with the other and twist in opposite directions. (If you are looking down toward the bowl of the mouthpiece, the shank would be turning clockwise and the cup counterclockwise.) Matt Varho ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 12:29:21 -0600 From: Douglas Wright Subject: Re: Help- stuck Doug Elliott Mouthpiece components Here is what has worked for me. Find a board or some flat surface that is very smooth. Hold the mouthpiece upside down right where the cup meets the shank. Pound the cup down onto this hard, SMOOTH surface. Try to hit the rim down solidly and evenly so that the whole rim strikes the surface at the same time. This shouldn't pit your rim if the surface is smooth. I admit I haven't had to do this with the rim on, but I have done it numerous times to get the cup and shank apart. Maybe put a thin piece of some soft fabric on the board to make sure your rim will be ok. One good shot should do the trick. The vibration from the strike loosens everything right up. Tim Morrison (former principal trumpet, Boston Pops) showed me this trick with a multiple part mouthpiece of his when we were both in Boston. He didn't bother with the fabric. He just pounded the mouthpiece, rim and all, down onto Symphony Hall stage in Boston. It's worked for me every time. Good Luck! Douglas Wright Principal Trombone Minnesota Orchestra BassBonist@AOL.COM wrote: > > I have been trying to > > >>separate the rim, cup, and shank of my primary set up from each other with >>no >>luck (squeaky clean threading makes for a stiff friction fitting). I have >>tried rubber gloves, WD-40, as well as the help of my stronger friends with >>no >>success. >> >> > >Here's what I would do. First, borrow two pair of soft-jawed pliers. >These are similar to Channel-lock pliers but have a soft, white rubber >pad on each set of jaws. Grip the cup with one set and the shank with the >other and twist in opposite directions. (If you are looking down toward the >bowl of the mouthpiece, the shank would be turning clockwise and the cup >counterclockwise.) > > >Matt Varho > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 19:27:49 +0000 From: Daniel Pliskin Subject: Re: Help- stuck Doug Elliott Mouthpiece components >I have been trying to >separate the rim, cup, and shank of my primary set up from each other with >no >luck (squeaky clean threading makes for a stiff friction fitting). >I was hoping that someone may have some ideas before I start using my >uncle's plumbing tools! Peter, Where are you geographically? I've got a gadget called a boa strap, that holds on to round things with rubber friction and has a long lever handle. I might be able to help. But also, repair folk have things like that, because they are always working on trying to remove threaded caps to valves. Have you tried your local repairperson, yet? DanP PS. I'm in Redwood City, CA, USA _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 14:51:28 EST From: Sldtbn@AOL.COM Subject: Re: A Worthwhile experiment Listers, An interesting twist to this short line... I use a Bach open pipe in my Edward's standard orchestral weight slide, with a Bach 42 bell. Its the best I've had so far. Better results for me than the T2... Tom S. Principal Trombone Colorado Springs Symphony Boulder Philharmonic Belden Street Brass Quintet ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 15:17:45 -0600 From: Jeff Oien Subject: Re: Help- stuck Doug Elliott Mouthpiece components When you say "pound" you mean strike the mouthpiece on the wood while holding it in your hand right? As opposed to pounding it with a hammer. Wouldn't want anyone to confuse the terminology there. :) Jeff Oien > Here is what has worked for me. Find a board or some flat surface that > is very smooth. Hold the mouthpiece upside down right where the cup > meets the shank. Pound the cup down onto this hard, SMOOTH surface. > Try to hit the rim down solidly and evenly so that the whole rim > strikes the surface at the same time. This shouldn't pit your rim if > the surface is smooth. I admit I haven't had to do this with the rim > on, but I have done it numerous times to get the cup and shank apart. > Maybe put a thin piece of some soft fabric on the board to make sure > your rim will be ok. One good shot should do the trick. The vibration > from the strike loosens everything right up. Tim Morrison (former > principal trumpet, Boston Pops) showed me this trick with a multiple > part mouthpiece of his when we were both in Boston. He didn't bother > with the fabric. He just pounded the mouthpiece, rim and all, down onto > Symphony Hall stage in Boston. It's worked for me every time. > > Good Luck! > Douglas Wright > Principal Trombone > Minnesota Orchestra > > BassBonist@AOL.COM wrote: > > > > I have been trying to > > > > > >>separate the rim, cup, and shank of my primary set up from each other with > >>no > >>luck (squeaky clean threading makes for a stiff friction fitting). I have > >>tried rubber gloves, WD-40, as well as the help of my stronger friends with > >>no > >>success. > >> > >> > > > >Here's what I would do. First, borrow two pair of soft-jawed pliers. > >These are similar to Channel-lock pliers but have a soft, white rubber > >pad on each set of jaws. Grip the cup with one set and the shank with the > >other and twist in opposite directions. (If you are looking down toward the > >bowl of the mouthpiece, the shank would be turning clockwise and the cup > >counterclockwise.) > > > > > >Matt Varho > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 13:28:27 -0800 From: David Leep Subject: Re: Help- stuck Doug Elliott Mouthpiece components The last time I tried to get tight dry threads unstuck by just applying gradually more torque, the threads got ruined before they let go of each other. So I would try the other approaches first (besides checking with the maker if possible): other penetrating liquids besides the WD-40 you already tried (maybe acetone?), perhaps together with the controlled-shock approach. One way to try this, if simpler methods fail, and if you can get access to an ultrasonic cleaner: immerse the threaded parts in a small beaker of acetone and dip the beaker into the ultrasonic bath for a little while. (The beaker keeps the acetone out of the detergent bath, but transmits the ultrasound energy. Naturally, there are both chemical and ultrasound precautions to observe with this technique...) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 15:54:20 -0600 From: Chris Waage Subject: Re: Help- stuck Doug Elliott Mouthpiece components Doug's usual advice for a mouthpiece with parts that are stuck is to use an open end wrench to remove the shank, and to gently tap the rim with a rawhide mallet in the appropriate direction to unscrew it. The top of all Doug Elliott shanks is hexagonal for this very reason. If all else fails, call Doug directly at 301-871-3535. You'll probably have to leave a message, but he's good about returning calls. Chris >Hello, > >two months ago I did an exhaustive cleaning of my mouthpieces. I >was delighted >to see my various DE mouthpiece parts all glimering like new. This image of >beauty came at a high price as for the past month I have been trying to >separate the rim, cup, and shank of my primary set up from each other with no >luck (squeaky clean threading makes for a stiff friction fitting). I have >tried rubber gloves, WD-40, as well as the help of my stronger friends with no >success. I was hoping that someone may have some ideas before I >start using my >uncle's plumbing tools! > > >-Peter Fielding -- ________________________________________________ Chris Waage, Associate Webmaster chris@trombone.org http://www.trombone.org - A web site for trombonists ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 21:05:40 -0500 From: john burton Subject: Re: laquer stripping How does one "retouch" a laquer job on one of these old Bachs? Once I get the thing polished and looking the way I'd like it, why not re-spray (or whatever) and KEEP it that way??? What type of spray would I use? --==jb==-- -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of D.J. Kennedy Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2002 6:11 PM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Re: [TBN-L] laquer stripping bachs are ez!!!!!!!! nitrocellulose laq comes right off - w regular strippers its ez to re touch also -and thats why repair guys like it john burton wrote: > I'm not certain I'd like my horn the brown of unlaquered brass, and > frankly I'd rather polish it with Wrights natch. > > I too have been pondering stripping my 50B3 since the laquer wear > shows its age. I'd especially like to brighten up the bell section. > > Comments in that direction??? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Trombones and related issues forum. > [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of D.J. Kennedy > Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2002 2:34 PM > To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU > Subject: Re: [TBN-L] laquer stripping > > dont worry the bare brass will get patina fast enough > there are patina solutions - > for example -gun blueing --or say weak ammonia > ferric chloride etc -- > a freshly stripped horn will be brown in no time > ----besides a jug of brown patina solution from rio grande costs > about 50 > bucks > not to mention xxxxtra charges for hazmat packaging handling -add > another 20 bucks > ----- > > ALFORDMB@AOL.COM wrote: > > > In a message dated 11/30/2002 8:51:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, > > djpens@midwest.net writes: > > > > > -but dont leave it sit overnight ----- > > > unless you are into very unusual patinas > > > > ========== > > This brings up something I have wondered about. I have seen several > > old, unlacquered horns with the most beautiful patina that comes > > with benevolent aging. Does anyone know of an agent or process that > > will produce a nice patina without waiting 40 years? I believe, in > > the art world, there are those generally considered unsavory types > > who are adept at faking such characteristics of age, etc. My > > interest is legit > > > - I have been "reconditioning" my 50-year-old student horn, and > > rather > > > than relacquer it, I would like to have an aged, bare brass look. > > Pipe dreams? Happy Holidays, 'Mike Alford ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 03:02:51 +0000 From: posaune rex Subject: webpage update Hello, Fore those interested, I've updated my webpage with the newest audition listings and rumors. Please let me know if you have anything to add, fix, or append... stacy werblin http://remember.to/practice _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ End of TROMBONE-L Digest - 30 Nov 2002 to 1 Dec 2002 (#2002-141) ****************************************************************