Subject: TROMBONE-L Digest - 20 Nov 2002 to 21 Nov 2002 (#2002-131) There are 17 messages totalling 776 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Postpone 2. Info on Buescher horns? (5) 3. Info on Buescher horns.//////3 rings 4. Any info on Maestro cases? Gary Liang, Spring, Texas? (2) 5. Practice Mute for Sale 6. Buescher history 7. a dilemna (4) 8. a dilemma 9. a dilemma r di saster ????!!!!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 23:11:02 -0800 From: Roy and Kathy Main Subject: Postpone Please postpone TROMBONE-L until further notice. Thanks Roy Main ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 08:45:30 -0400 From: sabutin Subject: Info on Buescher horns? Hi all... As part of my continuing education in older American .509 and smaller bore horns, I have learned a great deal about Olds instruments. Lots of them out there, many very good players at quite low prices. Now I am noticing a number of Bueschers for sale. DJ swears by them; a couple of other people have mentioned them, and I just found that my favorite Conn collector, a man of impeccable taste in instruments, also has quite a few older Bueschers. I see many different models for sale...Grand, Aristocrat, others...and have no clue about their relative sizes or whether they were pro or student models, heavy, light, what eras were good, bad, and so on. Any info would be much appreciated. I have been SO impressed w/Olds horns that I am in the process of buying and reconditioning a number of them. I originally didn't pay much attention to them because there didn't appear to have been many great players who played them, at least not on the east coast. Since I was so wrong about Olds, I'm now looking at other, even less common brands. Thanks for all your help. Later... Sam -- (Sam Burtis, proud proprietor of The Trombone Store in NYC, featuring fine new and used lower brass instruments and accessories. Visit us on the web at [still under construction], email us at , or call us at [718] 796-4413. By appointment only.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 08:02:17 -0600 From: Jeff Albert Subject: Re: Info on Buescher horns? I have only played one Buescher. It was an Aristocrat that belonged to a student. Seemed to be just a regular Bb student horn. Small bore (.500 ?), about on par with an Olds Ambassador was my impression, but I have only seen one. Jeff Albert www.jeffalbert.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE- > L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of sabutin > Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 6:46 AM > To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU > Subject: [TBN-L] Info on Buescher horns? > > Hi all... > > As part of my continuing education in older American .509 and > smaller bore horns, I have learned a great deal about Olds > instruments. Lots of them out there, many very good players at quite > low prices. > > Now I am noticing a number of Bueschers for sale. DJ swears by > them; a couple of other people have mentioned them, and I just found > that my favorite Conn collector, a man of impeccable taste in > instruments, also has quite a few older Bueschers. > > I see many different models for sale...Grand, Aristocrat, > others...and have no clue about their relative sizes or whether they > were pro or student models, heavy, light, what eras were good, bad, > and so on. > > Any info would be much appreciated. > > I have been SO impressed w/Olds horns that I am in the process of > buying and reconditioning a number of them. I originally didn't pay > much attention to them because there didn't appear to have been many > great players who played them, at least not on the east coast. Since > I was so wrong about Olds, I'm now looking at other, even less common > brands. > > Thanks for all your help. > > Later... > > Sam > -- > (Sam Burtis, proud proprietor of The Trombone Store in NYC, featuring > fine new and used lower brass instruments and accessories. Visit us > on the web at [still under > construction], email us at , or call us at > [718] 796-4413. By appointment only.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 08:41:13 -0600 From: "D.J. Kennedy" Subject: Re: Info on Buescher horns? hey sam and listers bueschers are great ---and in other horns besides trombones euphos -from pre 20s --for example -- buescher saxes --the 400 castle --big b --certain models of saxes are very big sounding and have a following ---buescher aristocrat -some of the most beautiful trombones ever made with gold accented engraving over silver plate - later aristocrat trumpet played by chet baker -[conn era] conn bought out buescher---the pre conn buescher classics bueschers used in recording studios in roaring 20s -etc ----------- the buescher ''staggerwing '' a deco trombone of extreme design- unequal length tubes slanted --a brace across slide bow - as wild as the conn voca bell ---- i also have a ''narrow pattern '' ha selmer ---slide is veryvery narrow -[burkle also] horn is stretched out long -this was done w trumpets too -loooooooooong !!!!!! these guys were sure having fun !!!!!!!!!!!!!! ----------------- i am not as up on the bueschers as i would like but i have gotten play reports from guys who are really realy liking certain buescher grands -- and have not found the slides to be problematic-- holton revelation and ''hatchet'' models too -------- i met an ancient player --he played a fancy wurlitzer --- ------ martin was making b/f symphonic horns pre 20s and york as well- i have a 30s york 525 slip joint b/f 9 in thin red bell flatwound saddly not in playble condition i had a reinforcment around tuning slide -now missing york //blessing also had dual bores pre 40s -- ---------------------------- somebody needs to write a book about the american trombone [ha ha ] bach trumpet guys are still looking for a source of hex stock brass rod today trombones are getting the attention formerly paid to trumpets by makers such as kanstul and schilke -- lucky for us now and for generations to come doug yeo and others are still playing historic instruments and the european horns ---thats a whole nother bag !!!!!!!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- buescher saxes are really interesting ----they ruled way before the mk VI came along sabutin wrote: > Hi all... > > As part of my continuing education in older American .509 and > smaller bore horns, I have learned a great deal about Olds > instruments. Lots of them out there, many very good players at quite > low prices. > > Now I am noticing a number of Bueschers for sale. DJ swears by > them; a couple of other people have mentioned them, and I just found > that my favorite Conn collector, a man of impeccable taste in > instruments, also has quite a few older Bueschers. > > I see many different models for sale...Grand, Aristocrat, > others...and have no clue about their relative sizes or whether they > were pro or student models, heavy, light, what eras were good, bad, > and so on. > > Any info would be much appreciated. > > I have been SO impressed w/Olds horns that I am in the process of > buying and reconditioning a number of them. I originally didn't pay > much attention to them because there didn't appear to have been many > great players who played them, at least not on the east coast. Since > I was so wrong about Olds, I'm now looking at other, even less common > brands. > > Thanks for all your help. > > Later... > > Sam > -- > (Sam Burtis, proud proprietor of The Trombone Store in NYC, featuring > fine new and used lower brass instruments and accessories. Visit us > on the web at [still under > construction], email us at , or call us at > [718] 796-4413. By appointment only.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 09:05:24 -0600 From: "D.J. Kennedy" Subject: Info on Buescher horns.//////3 rings later aristos ---were stencil horns made by conn--well buescher was bought out by conn the bueschers often had a heart or elk head on them --the REAL aristocrat ------wow !!!!!!!!!! awesome georgeous fabulously deluxe --early 30s ---lavishly engraved --- ------------------------- i just saw a buescher 400 raised nickle sil letters - a huge scene landscape w castle clouds trees water etc on bell ----the unusual design -keys placed on inner bell not on side ----------ringling brothers b&b circus band trombone player[ travis from oklahoma]--franken bone 2b with all mix //matched parts --------------no audition !!!!!!yeah referral - pretty groovy brett barlow --formerly trombone -now leader and travis came down to the bone home and blew the walls outta the place --brett brought a mint mv 8 in deluxecase ser in 4000s ----wow !!!!!!!-----and an early 30s silvertone - they tried out lotsa horns !!!!! it was as wild as a three ring circus -------uhhhhh waitaminute ????????!!!! the show was fantastic !!!!!!!!beyond comprehension ---300 people - 3 shows on saturday ------800 shows a year !!!!!!! ------------------------- needless to say these guys have chops !!!!!!! i bet that more people see ////hear this show than another production brett tried many many horns out bith new and vintage on the job his main axe -a later new proportion --- travis has bass bone chops -he blew this minick inspired 110h --wow !!! then he liked the ''baby trombone'' and took the conn alto b/f out for a spin just to give the 1 trumpeter a treet ---- ------------------------- these guys are really great !!!!!!! brett has two sons --it is a wonderful life and adventure and it was lots of fun to hear them blow ---brett was in school w dave gibson at oklahoma ----so if the circus comes to your town please hook up and see the show --------------- Jeff Albert wrote: > I have only played one Buescher. It was an Aristocrat that belonged to > a student. Seemed to be just a regular Bb student horn. Small bore > (.500 ?), about on par with an Olds Ambassador was my impression, but I > have only seen one. > > Jeff Albert > > www.jeffalbert.com > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE- > > L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of sabutin > > Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 6:46 AM > > To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU > > Subject: [TBN-L] Info on Buescher horns? > > > > Hi all... > > > > As part of my continuing education in older American .509 and > > smaller bore horns, I have learned a great deal about Olds > > instruments. Lots of them out there, many very good players at quite > > low prices. > > > > Now I am noticing a number of Bueschers for sale. DJ swears by > > them; a couple of other people have mentioned them, and I just found > > that my favorite Conn collector, a man of impeccable taste in > > instruments, also has quite a few older Bueschers. > > > > I see many different models for sale...Grand, Aristocrat, > > others...and have no clue about their relative sizes or whether they > > were pro or student models, heavy, light, what eras were good, bad, > > and so on. > > > > Any info would be much appreciated. > > > > I have been SO impressed w/Olds horns that I am in the process of > > buying and reconditioning a number of them. I originally didn't pay > > much attention to them because there didn't appear to have been many > > great players who played them, at least not on the east coast. Since > > I was so wrong about Olds, I'm now looking at other, even less common > > brands. > > > > Thanks for all your help. > > > > Later... > > > > Sam > > -- > > (Sam Burtis, proud proprietor of The Trombone Store in NYC, featuring > > fine new and used lower brass instruments and accessories. Visit us > > on the web at [still under > > construction], email us at , or call us at > > [718] 796-4413. By appointment only.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:51:54 -0000 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: Info on Buescher horns? From: "D.J. Kennedy" > buescher saxes are really interesting ----they ruled way before the > mk VI came along Used to own a really interesting Buescher bass sax. Had no case. Couldn't get reeds for it. Had to make do with baritone (sax) reeds. Fell off the stage while trying to recover instruments from a smoke filled ballroom before the fire department got there. Carried it all through the West End of London (no case) trying to find a music store that would give me a few shillings for it. Eventually swapped it for a mouthpiece. End of boring tale. Probably in some museum now. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:20:04 -0400 From: sabutin Subject: Any info on Maestro cases? Gary Liang, Spring, Texas? Hello again... Does anyone know anything about Maestro hard trombone cases? Made by Gary Liang in Spring, TX? He is offering wood trombone cases that look pretty good for a buy it now price of $49 (+ $35 shipping) on ebay. If they're good, I may buy a few for the lesser known, older pro horns I plan to sell as alternatives to the tinny student models people are buying. Most of the cases for these horns are shot, and kids trash horns in soft cases. Thanks... Sam -- (Sam Burtis, proud proprietor of The Trombone Store in NYC, featuring fine new and used lower brass instruments and accessories. Visit us on the web at [still under construction], email us at , or call us at [718] 796-4413. By appointment only.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:27:45 +0000 From: Daniel Pliskin Subject: Re: Info on Buescher horns? >I have only played one Buescher. It was an Aristocrat that belonged to >a student. Seemed to be just a regular Bb student horn. Small bore >(.500 ?), about on par with an Olds Ambassador was my impression, but I >have only seen one. Jeff and y'all, As I told Sam, I played and loved a 0.500”-bore Buescher Aristocrat for a long time. But then I bought one that blew me away, a 0.507-bore Aristocrat. It’s way more open, way louder, takes way more air. It’s my second favorite trombone. I’ve also got the bell from a Buescher Windsor. It looks like an Aristocrat bell, but sounds way better. But then again, that could just be the bells I’ve got. I also have an older, very beautiful silver Buescher. It’s got 2B-like curved cross-members and a gorgeous scalloped integral counterweight. The slide is a mess, though and I haven’t fixed it, yet. But, also, the bell doesn’t sound as good to me as those of the Aristocrats. There’s another Buescher, of that era, which is notable. That’s the Buescher Elkhart (0.483” bore/7” bell). These are great little trombones. They’re small enough to be lightweight, while still solidly built. The slide tubes are closer together than on other trombones I’ve seen, which feels quite comfortable to me. I find the slide tubes on my TB-300, for example, to be just a bit too far apart. If I wasn’t such a loud-mouth…I mean if I wasn’t so long winded…I mean…I’d probably still play an Elkhart, regularly. It’s a gem. I’m not fond of dual-bore trombones, for the most part, and that includes the Olds Ambassador. I get my mellow sound by using a 4-size mouthpiece. Other techniques for mellowing the sound, dual-bore slides, soft brass bells, lacquered bells and lightweight equipment, in general seem to make trombones unresponsive, to my ear. I want to tame that brash sound, not kill it. Sometimes that over-blown sound is way fun. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:13:14 +0800 From: Marta Jean Hofacre Subject: Practice Mute for Sale Denis Wick Practice Mute For Sale. Take this link for more information: ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:21:48 +1100 From: hlmswlkr@OZEMAIL.COM.AU Subject: Buescher history FWIW...... F. Augustine Buescher started up in Elkhart IN in 1888 after working for C G Conn. He specialized in Saxophones but also designed valved brasses as well. In 1928 Buescher took over the Elkhart Band Instrument Co.and used the Elkhart brand for studnet horns. Buescher was bought by Selmer in 1963 but continued to produce under it's own name until the late 1970's. During this time the professional grade cornets, trumpets and harmony brasses were dropped, leaving only the "Aristocrat" student line marketed by Selmer. My main ref is "Twentieth Century Brass Musical Instruments in The United States" by Richard J. Dundas. A very interesting read if you're into this sort of thing..... Cheers Matthew Walker Bass Trombonist, Opera Australia Walker's Instrument Repair, "The Brassery" This message was sent through MyMail http://www.mymail.com.au ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:39:40 -0600 From: Mike Switzer Subject: a dilemna just worked out a deal where I can get a new horn this christmas... The question is, what to get? I have been playing a king student horn (606) with a bach 6 1/2 mouthpiece for about 15 years now... I play with a theater group, and sometimes think it would be nice to have a bass horn. There are definitely parts I hear that are lower than I comfortably play on my current horn, and until we find a bari sax player, I am the low horn... But with the exception of that fairly regular gig, I mostly play jazz and and a nice new tenor lead horn is very tempting... any thoughts, questions, or reccomendations would be greatly appreciated... Mike "Seek and learn to recognize who and what, in the midst of the inferno, are not inferno, then make them endure, give them space." -Italo Calvino ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:07:21 -0600 From: Jeff Albert Subject: Re: a dilemna In your case, I would look at something in the .508 range. That will be just right for the jazz stuff. If you have been getting by the theatre stuff with a 606, you will still be able to cut it with a 3B or the like, and your 6.5 AL will probably still be a good fit. Jeff Albert www.jeffalbert.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE- > L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of Mike Switzer > Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 3:40 PM > To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU > Subject: [TBN-L] a dilemna > > just worked out a deal where I can get a new horn this christmas... > > The question is, what to get? I have been playing a king student horn > (606) > with a bach 6 1/2 mouthpiece for about 15 years now... > > I play with a theater group, and sometimes think it would be nice to have > a > bass horn. There are definitely parts I hear that are > lower than I comfortably play on my current horn, and until we find a bari > sax player, I am the low horn... > > But with the exception of that fairly regular gig, I mostly play jazz and > and a nice new tenor lead horn is very tempting... > > any thoughts, questions, or reccomendations would be greatly > appreciated... > > Mike > > > "Seek and learn to recognize who and what, in the midst of the inferno, > are > not inferno, then make them endure, give them space." > -Italo Calvino ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 22:06:24 +0000 From: Daniel Pliskin Subject: Re: a dilemna Mike, >The question is, what to get? I have been playing a king student horn >(606) >with a bach 6 1/2 mouthpiece for about 15 years now... I just tried a bunch of trombones, at a Trombone Day, here in the San Francisco Bay Area, and was very impressed with the Pro-series Kings. I played a 0.500” bore/8” bell trombone (I think) that was very responsive. DanP _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:08:08 -0800 From: Jerry Blomberg Subject: Re: Any info on Maestro cases? Gary Liang, Spring, Texas? >with extra >strength woodshell, Nylon cover. Double shoulder straps, Music >pocket. Heave duty, High quality case. Sam, Maybe these are the answer to rough baggage handling? Jerry Blomberg Bass Trombonist, BonesWest San Gabriel Valley Concert Band <>< ----- Original Message ----- From: "sabutin" To: Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 7:20 AM Subject: [TBN-L] Any info on Maestro cases? Gary Liang, Spring, Texas? > Hello again... > > Does anyone know anything about Maestro hard trombone cases? Made > by Gary Liang in Spring, TX? He is offering wood trombone cases that > look pretty good for a buy it now price of $49 (+ $35 shipping) on > ebay. > > > > If they're good, I may buy a few for the lesser known, older pro > horns I plan to sell as alternatives to the tinny student models > people are buying. Most of the cases for these horns are shot, and > kids trash horns in soft cases. > > Thanks... > > Sam > > > -- > (Sam Burtis, proud proprietor of The Trombone Store in NYC, featuring > fine new and used lower brass instruments and accessories. Visit us > on the web at [still under > construction], email us at , or call us at > [718] 796-4413. By appointment only.) > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 20:19:45 -0500 From: Steve Beck Subject: Re: a dilemna ah, the one horn fits all dilemma. Hey, if your 606 is working well for 15 years of jazz, keep using it. Get yourself the large bore horn. Want hedge your bet, get a Bach 36 and use it for everything. -Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Switzer" To: Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 4:39 PM Subject: [TBN-L] a dilemna > just worked out a deal where I can get a new horn this christmas... > > The question is, what to get? I have been playing a king student horn (606) > with a bach 6 1/2 mouthpiece for about 15 years now... > > I play with a theater group, and sometimes think it would be nice to have a > bass horn. There are definitely parts I hear that are > lower than I comfortably play on my current horn, and until we find a bari > sax player, I am the low horn... > > But with the exception of that fairly regular gig, I mostly play jazz and > and a nice new tenor lead horn is very tempting... > > any thoughts, questions, or reccomendations would be greatly appreciated... > > Mike > > > "Seek and learn to recognize who and what, in the midst of the inferno, are > not inferno, then make them endure, give them space." > -Italo Calvino > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 21:36:56 EST From: BassBonist@AOL.COM Subject: Re: a dilemma becks@PILOT.MSU.EDU writes: > Want hedge your bet, get a Bach 36 and use it for everything. > > < There are definitely parts I hear that are > > lower than I comfortably play on my current horn, and until we find a bari > > sax player, I am the low horn... > > > Mike > Based on what you indicated in your original (complete) post I would say that I agree with Steve with one major revision: Get a Bach 36B, or a Yamaha, or a Getzen, or anything else that has an F attachment and is around .525" bore size. Why? The extended low range will help fill in for a baritone sax, it's a versatile horn for other things, and that size will be a snap to get used to after playing on a King 606 for fifteen years. Matt Varho ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 22:03:22 -0600 From: "D.J. Kennedy" Subject: Re: a dilemma r di saster ????!!!!! or yoi could get a nicer jazz bone like an old 3b or a yama 691 and work on your low range ---since the musical isnt that much of a deal 15 years on a 606 ---isnt that thing wore out yet ???? --get a 3b you will love it!!!!!!!!! used ones are running around 5-600 --------ok if you wanna try out a bach 36 thats fine but how about a new main horn ---for what you like -jazz- 3b is lots like 606 ---only butter !!!!!!! why buy a tank --when its a sports car you want !!!!!!!!!???!!!!!!! yeah and if musical get a sax ---then you dont need no elephant gun dat aint no di lemon ---dats a di saster !!!!!!!!!! BassBonist@AOL.COM wrote: > becks@PILOT.MSU.EDU writes: > > > Want hedge your bet, get a Bach 36 and use it for everything. > > > > < There are definitely parts I hear that are > > > lower than I comfortably play on my current horn, and until we find a bari > > > sax player, I am the low horn... > > > > > Mike > > > Based on what you indicated in your original (complete) post I would say that > I agree with Steve with one major revision: Get a Bach 36B, > or a Yamaha, or a Getzen, or anything else that has an F attachment and is > around .525" bore size. > > Why? The extended low range will help fill in for a baritone sax, > it's a versatile horn for other things, and that size will be a snap to get > used to after playing on a King 606 for fifteen years. > > Matt Varho ------------------------------ End of TROMBONE-L Digest - 20 Nov 2002 to 21 Nov 2002 (#2002-131) *****************************************************************