Subject: TROMBONE-L Digest - 6 Nov 2002 to 7 Nov 2002 (#2002-117) There are 20 messages totalling 1239 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Pederson music availability 2. Curious (2) 3. Slide Maintenance Issues 4. Man or Woman playing trombone.......can you tell? 5. Your incoherent posts//slide tip (6) 6. World of Trombones... 7. Fwd: Slide Maintenance (3) 8. and a question (3) 9. Cruise Ships gig -- 10. //slide tip chrome polish ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 02:00:27 EST From: MikeSuter@AOL.COM Subject: Pederson music availability Hi All, << The other place is Mike Suter's site. He has some of the Pederson stuff available too. See his site at: http://www.sierramusic.com/bones2000.htm >> Much of the music from our National Slide Quartet album "Trombania" is available from Sierra Music Publications, as per Chuck's recommendation. Other than those, all that is in print right now are "Blue Topaz" (BsTrb w/ trb sextet) and "Josephine" (2 versions: BsTrb w/ trb sextet and BsTrb w/ brass quintet). Chuck has them in stock at Hickey's. For information about other Pederson charts, contact me personally at mikesuter@aol.com. All The Best, Mike Suter National Slide Quartet Slidewerke PrimeSlide Design ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 08:08:24 -0000 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: Curious From: "Wayne Dyess" > Now ya've done it. Tom wants ANOTHER trombone!!!!! Tom doesn't buy single horns, only complete families of horns. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 08:11:26 -0000 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: Slide Maintenance Issues From: "Richard Johnson" > Are we talking about using the Brasso on the OUTSIDE of the INNER slides? > Can Brasso be used on the INSIDE of the OUTER slides? Sounds a bit severe whichever way. I thought Brasso was an abrasive. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 04:24:40 -0600 From: "Richard Z. Johnson" Subject: Man or Woman playing trombone.......can you tell? Here is a site to msnbc that details an internet fight to obtain female membership in the Vienna Philharmonic. As a sidebar of the article there is a section of five orchestral excerpts, three by trombonists and two by trumpet players. It asks you to ascertain the gender of the player. http://www.msnbc.com/news/355820.asp Hopefully, my url doesn't give you the results of the poll. I cut and pasted after I listened to the excerpts. To be on the safe side, you may want to go to the following url and scroll down until you see the link the article regarding, "Taking on the Vienna Philharminoc." http://www.msnbc.com/news/MUSICHID_Front.asp?0dm=-334L I was wrong on four out of five. It indicates that, after voting, you can "reload" your browser to get the names of the players. I was unable to do so. If anyone can do so, tell me who the players are please. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 08:34:33 -0500 From: Chuck De Paolo Subject: Re: Curious Tom, I think I saw one of those bolted to the mainmast of a cruise ship last summer. It only played one note though, just before they shoved off! ---Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > hahahahahahahaha Have no fear Wayne, I'll pass on this one. > I have my sights on "saving" for a BBBBb/FFFF/CCCC Double Occto > Contrabass in a 1.000 bore :-) (w/24" bell of course). Is it April 1, yet? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 10:55:33 -0600 From: "D.J. Kennedy" Subject: Your incoherent posts//slide tip i hereby formally apologize to the technical writers and literary critics and non -english and non- poetry majors for my incoherent posts on or about the subject of trombones --------------------------------------------------------------------------- and have a happy day ---smiley face ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- if you cant dig it delete it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ---------------------------------------------------- thank you mr jefferson for your ideas on freedom ------------------------------------------- ------------------------------- and thanks for the slide lube/maintainence tips ----here's another one ----use black rouge made for buffing stainless steel and chrome on a piece of suede for putting the highest possible shine and smoothness to the surface of the gleaming glittering flawless perfection that is your inner slide this perfection is possible in inanimate objects but so often lacking in people Philbne@aol.com wrote: > You obviously can't form a coherent sentence nor thought. How you tied > the two party system, fascism, and the English language together is > beyond belief. Nice tirade you spewed out too. That's the juvenile > attitude I wrote about. You impressed no one. > I'm not asking you to change your train of thought, just make it > easier to follow. (It's all over the place) > But go ahead and ramble on oh great 'jazz thinker' nut job! > Your ramblings will join the spam I receive right after I hit the > delete key. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 13:46:07 EST From: Dslide13@AOL.COM Subject: World of Trombones... Just a reminder for those in the area that the WOT will be performing in Cleveland on Dec 15th. I'm not sure of the venue, but it shouldn't be too hard to find out. Also, they will be performing at the IAJE Convention in Toronto on Jan. 10th. David Gibson dslide13@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 14:23:52 EST From: MikeSuter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Your incoherent posts//slide tip << i hereby formally apologize to the technical writers and literary critics and non -english and non- poetry majors for my incoherent posts on or about the subject of trombones --------------------------------------------------------------------------- and have a happy day ---smiley face >> Who are you? And what have you done with DJ? Mike Suter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 11:40:55 -0800 From: Gabriel Langfur Subject: Fwd: Slide Maintenance Hi Richard and list...I saved this set of instructions from Paul Kemp about using brass polish to thoroughly clean the outer slides...Paul, I didn't think you'd mind... FWIW, I use cheesecloth instead of paper towels on the cleaning rod --- "Paul D. Kemp Jr." wrote: > Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 21:02:40 -0500 > From: "Paul D. Kemp Jr." > To: "Trombones and related issues forum." > > Subject: Slide Maintenance > > Dear Listers: > I have been very busy, but I do read the trombone-l > messages daily, and I can usually glean something from > them. Someone mentioned something about my slide > maintenance formula, and it is true that I posted a quite > lengthy regimen several years ago. I can simplify it some > here, and if this regimen is followed faithfully, it will > enhance your playing technique, as well as keeping your > slide out of the shop. I have posted quite a few of these > things on my website, but periodically, they bear > repeating here for the new members who join our ranks. > First of all, if you haven't done so, I would highly > recommend that you visit John Upchurch's website at > www.slidedr.com . Most of what I have learned about > slides I have learned from this extremely generous man, > and he gives all of the essentials to having a great > slide in this concise website. > Most of the problems that I have encountered with > students' slides (and some professionals, I might add) > has to do with keeping the slide clean. When I say clean, > I mean REALLY CLEAN. When a slide comes from the factory, > it is not clean. Clean, in my book, means that the inside > of the outer tubes are polished. If you're still in the > dark about what I'm talking about, take some Brasso and > polish the part of your tuning slide that fits into the > bell. (Incidentally, don't use Brasso on lacquered > surfaces, as it will take the lacquer off. If you do get > some on a laquered surface, be sure to wipe it off > immediately. ) You will notice that the brass will turn > very, very black. After you wipe the Brasso off, you will > begin to notice an extremely beautiful luster. This is > what you want the inside of the slide tubes to be like. > 1) Pour a small amount of Brasso in each tube. A > tablespoon full will do. > 2) With a straight cleaning rod threaded with a paper > towel (if you have .547 bore or .562 slide) or a paper > napkin for the .525 bore or smaller instruments, insert > the cleaning rod into one of the slide tubes and work > each tube about 100-150 times, and really concentrate on > the lower 8" of the tube, as it seems this is where most > of the oxidation occurs. The metal should get warm or hot > to the touch. Be sure to hold on to the tube that you are > working on so that you do not bend the tubes out of > alignment. > 3) After you've really Brassoed out each tube, use > Dawn Dishwashing Detergent & water or Go-Jo Hand Cleaner > & water to remove the residue left by the Brasso. Wash > the slide out with a snake, and notice the color of the > water as you dump the water out of the outer slide. It > should be gray to black. > 4) Take a clean paper towel or napkin threaded > through the cleaning rod and dry out the outer tubes. If > this paper towel comes out black, that's OK. You probably > won't be able to get all of it out right away. > 5) Now is a good time to check your alignment. Work > the slide dry, inserting the top tube (the one the > mouthpiece goes in) in the top outer slide tube (the one > with the slide lock). It should work very freely, with no > hesitation. If it binds up, then you have bowed tubes, > and you need to have them straightened. Repeat the same > with the other pair of tubes. Then try both sets of tubes > together. If they work freely, you're good to go. If not, > then you have a distance problem somewhere between the > U-bend and the hand brace. It's time to have this problem > remedied, because if you don't it will wear the chrome > plating off the inner tubes in short order, depending on > how severe the problem is. > 6) Use a small amount of cream (Superslik or Conn). > Here's where a lot of people go wrong. Usually, you can > get enough on the end of your index finger, and this will > be enough for BOTH tubes. Apply the cream to the > stockings (the lower 3" of the inner slide tubes). There > should not be any of the white of the cream showing as > you rub the cream into the tubes. > 7) Transfer the cream from the inner tubes to the > inside of the outer tubes by working them together. 40-50 > times should do it. > 8) Wipe the remaining cream off the inner slides. It > might come out black, but that's OK. The cream acts as a > cleaning agent, and if you repeat this 2-3 a week, > eventually you will get more and more of the black out, > and consequently your slide will become faster with each > cleaning. > 9) Use 1 drop of the Superslik silicone or Conn > Formula 3 and rub it over the entire inner slide suface > until it is warm to the touch. > 10) Spray with water, insert the inner tubes into the > outer tubes, and it should FLY out of 1st position. It > should also be very quiet. > > Even if you have had your slide chemically cleaned, you > need to polish the outer tubes so that they are very > shiny. If any of you have ever stripped the laquer off a > bell, then polished it with Brasso, you know just how > shiny brass can get. That's what you want on the inside > of the outer slide tubes. > > ABOUT THE TEFLON TREATMENTS. > > John Upchurch feels that his Superslide treatment > helps to retard the oxidation process. I have the upmost > respect for John, but in my experience, if you would > Brasso out your outer tubes every 6 months, this teflon > treatment isn't necessary. Quick story: Mike Carver, our > bass trombonist in the Chattanooga Symphony, came to me > Sunday afternoon and said that he was going to have to > send his slide to John. I felt the slide, and recommended > that he use Brasso the inside of the outer tubes very > well and use Dawn Dishwashing Detergent to wash out the > residue. He did it and he saved himself $65 for a slide > setup. The slide was REMARKABLY better Monday night at > rehearsal. > Here's something else. About 10 years ago, I bought a > brass Bach 42 slide from someone. I took a look at the > inside of the outer tubes, and they were COMPLETELY > BLACK. I cut a piece of a worn out 3M scrubbie pad 1" x > 3" and threaded into a cleaning rod, and using just Dawn > Dishwashing Detergent, I scrubbed the inside of the outer > tubes. The black started ROLLING out of them. In fact, I > had to scrub each tube 3 different times in order to get > all of the black out. Now mind you--this was an EXTREME > case of OXIDATION. I then sent the slide to John > Upchurch, and he straightened the tubes, and he said that > I had done a FANTASTIC job of cleaning them out. That > slide was the envy of all of the trombone players in this > town. Moral--if you've never polished the inside of the > outer tubes, they will eventually turn BLACK, and you > will have to remove this oxidation before your slide will > be quick and smooth. Drastic measures for drastic > situations. > Don't worry about removing the metal off the inside > of the slide with Brasso. It will take a very long time > (many, many years) before you increase the tolerances > between the inner and outer slides even a little bit. > Also, Brass also works very well on nickel silver slides. > > > OTHER THINGS TO CONSIDER > > If your tubes are bent, or if there is a distance > problem between the U-bend and the hand brace, there's a > good possibility that they came from the factory that > way, and you just learned to live with it. However, > here's what you can do to eradicate warping your slide > after you've had it straightened. > 1) NEVER stand your trombone on the slide. The weight > of the horn will eventually bow the tubes something like > a banana. > 2) NEVER sit on your case. Your weight will quickly > bow the slide out of alignment. > 3) Make sure your case, particularly the slide > compartment, is good and sturdy, and if you can avoid it, > do not set your trombone on the ground in the case with > the weight of the case on the slide. Stand your case on > the end if possible. > 4) If your trombone is out of the case, and you must > set it down, set it down so that the bell, tuning slide & > mouthpiece touch the table of floor simultaneously. > 5) ALWAYS use a trombone stand. Never take your > trombone anywhere without it. > > I trust that this will be helpful to all of you, both > young and old, student and professional. If your slide is > in the shop, then you can't play, and the fewer times > that your slide has to be straightened, the longer it > will last. Brass is very soft, and it only has so much > metal memory, and after a while the tubes can become very > soft, where you can almost look at them crosseyed and > they will bend. Nickel silver is much better, as it > tempers harder than brass: therfore it's harder to knock > a nickel silver slide out of alignment, but it's also > harder to put it back once it has been knocked out. > > Sincerely, > > > Paul Kemp > Chattanooga Symphony > www.trbnplyr.com > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 11:42:53 -0800 From: Gabriel Langfur Subject: and a question Hi all, A couple of years ago I wrote a lengthy post with my observations about the best way to select a trombone when faced with the dizzying array of options at Edwards or Shires. Did anyone save that? And if so, could they send it to me? Thanks, Gabe __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 14:53:10 -0500 From: Dale Cruse Subject: Re: and a question Gabe, I suggest a visit to the Trombone-L Archives at http://trombone.org/trombone-l/ You can search back to December 1999. Was your post before that? --- Dale Cruse www.DaleCruse.com Setting you up for online success. On 11/7/02 2:42 PM, "Gabriel Langfur" wrote: > Hi all, > > A couple of years ago I wrote a lengthy post with my > observations about the best way to select a trombone when > faced with the dizzying array of options at Edwards or > Shires. Did anyone save that? And if so, could they send it > to me? > > Thanks, > Gabe ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 12:24:53 -0800 From: Gabriel Langfur Subject: Re: and a question --- Dale Cruse wrote: > Gabe, > > I suggest a visit to the Trombone-L Archives at > http://trombone.org/trombone-l/ You can search back to > December 1999. Was > your post before that? I'm not sure if it was or not - might have been. I always have a hard time searching the archives...any suggestions? I don't remember the title of the post, so just searching by my name doesn't do much good. Gabe __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 15:50:13 -0600 From: "D.J. Kennedy" Subject: Cruise Ships gig -- ahoy there mate !!!!!!!!!!! jayson heres the contact for the pirateship gig ---ah Ben Hawes wrote: > Hey DJ, > > I'm in Ft Lauderdale now, going back to NZ on January 5th. Does Jayson need > a ship gig? The agency hiring for ships is called ProShip, based in > Montreal, Quebec. You can go to www.proship.com to find out more. I don't > have their phone number handy but it should be on the website. > > By the way, I'm not using this email address much anymore. My new address is > benhawes007@yahoo.com .I also have an address on the ship > benhawes@harmony.cuatsea.com > > Hope this helps, if you need more just let me know. > > Regards, > Ben Hawes > > _________________________________________________________________ > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 16:38:27 EST From: ALFORDMB@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Your incoherent posts//slide tip In a message dated 11/07/2002 11:48:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, djpens@midwest.net writes: > i hereby formally apologize to the technical writers and literary > critics > and non -english and non- poetry majors > for my incoherent posts on or about the subject of trombones ========= DJ - no apologies necessary from here. I read you just fine and greatly appreciate you posts. I guess some people are just wound too tight appreciate style! Mike Alford ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 18:06:50 -0600 From: "D.J. Kennedy" Subject: //slide tip chrome polish yes this means carefully wiping the outer surface of the outer slide with a preparation specifically made for this purpose this being a very very very fine and hard black rouge used for adding the final high shine to chrome stainless steel or platinum rhodium irridum alloys -typically very hard white alloys -----------the bar of compound i have is so hard that it barely makes a black smudge on a piece of heavier suede leather even so after wiping the inner down with pressure the result is very evident ---that slightly whitish scratchiness and film is removed -especially the stockings which get slight haze at times this compound gives the surface the slickest feel and it looks clearer and cleaner too--- no one seems to have mentioned this --- Steve Beck wrote: > From: "D.J. Kennedy" > > ----use black rouge made for buffing stainless steel and chrome > > on a piece of suede for putting the highest possible shine and > > smoothness to the surface of the gleaming glittering flawless > perfection > > that is your inner slide > > DJ, you use this to polish the inner slides. I assume you mean the inner > part of the outers or do you really polish up the inner slides, and if so, > does that help?? > > Personally, I brasso the hell out of the outslides (inner portion) without > caring in the least if I am wearing the metal down. > > Inner, outer, inner, outer - that is confusing. > > - Steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 17:59:15 -0800 From: Galen McQuarrie Subject: Re: Your incoherent posts//slide tip I'll second that sentiment. I enjoy your "style" D. J., though I don't always know what your driving at. ---Galen McQuarrie ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 1:38 PM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Your incoherent posts//slide tip | In a message dated 11/07/2002 11:48:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, | djpens@midwest.net writes: | | > i hereby formally apologize to the technical writers and literary | > critics | > and non -english and non- poetry majors | > for my incoherent posts on or about the subject of trombones | ========= | DJ - no apologies necessary from here. I read you just fine and greatly | appreciate you posts. I guess some people are just wound too tight appreciate | style! | | Mike Alford ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 22:00:24 -0600 From: "Richard Z. Johnson" Subject: Re: Fwd: Slide Maintenance Thanks!! I think that Paul's post answered all of my questions. -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of Gabriel Langfur Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 1:41 PM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: [TBN-L] Fwd: Slide Maintenance Hi Richard and list...I saved this set of instructions from Paul Kemp about using brass polish to thoroughly clean the outer slides...Paul, I didn't think you'd mind... FWIW, I use cheesecloth instead of paper towels on the cleaning rod --- "Paul D. Kemp Jr." wrote: > Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 21:02:40 -0500 > From: "Paul D. Kemp Jr." > To: "Trombones and related issues forum." > > Subject: Slide Maintenance > > Dear Listers: > I have been very busy, but I do read the trombone-l > messages daily, and I can usually glean something from > them. Someone mentioned something about my slide > maintenance formula, and it is true that I posted a quite > lengthy regimen several years ago. I can simplify it some > here, and if this regimen is followed faithfully, it will > enhance your playing technique, as well as keeping your > slide out of the shop. I have posted quite a few of these > things on my website, but periodically, they bear > repeating here for the new members who join our ranks. > First of all, if you haven't done so, I would highly > recommend that you visit John Upchurch's website at > www.slidedr.com . Most of what I have learned about > slides I have learned from this extremely generous man, > and he gives all of the essentials to having a great > slide in this concise website. > Most of the problems that I have encountered with > students' slides (and some professionals, I might add) > has to do with keeping the slide clean. When I say clean, > I mean REALLY CLEAN. When a slide comes from the factory, > it is not clean. Clean, in my book, means that the inside > of the outer tubes are polished. If you're still in the > dark about what I'm talking about, take some Brasso and > polish the part of your tuning slide that fits into the > bell. (Incidentally, don't use Brasso on lacquered > surfaces, as it will take the lacquer off. If you do get > some on a laquered surface, be sure to wipe it off > immediately. ) You will notice that the brass will turn > very, very black. After you wipe the Brasso off, you will > begin to notice an extremely beautiful luster. This is > what you want the inside of the slide tubes to be like. > 1) Pour a small amount of Brasso in each tube. A > tablespoon full will do. > 2) With a straight cleaning rod threaded with a paper > towel (if you have .547 bore or .562 slide) or a paper > napkin for the .525 bore or smaller instruments, insert > the cleaning rod into one of the slide tubes and work > each tube about 100-150 times, and really concentrate on > the lower 8" of the tube, as it seems this is where most > of the oxidation occurs. The metal should get warm or hot > to the touch. Be sure to hold on to the tube that you are > working on so that you do not bend the tubes out of > alignment. > 3) After you've really Brassoed out each tube, use > Dawn Dishwashing Detergent & water or Go-Jo Hand Cleaner > & water to remove the residue left by the Brasso. Wash > the slide out with a snake, and notice the color of the > water as you dump the water out of the outer slide. It > should be gray to black. > 4) Take a clean paper towel or napkin threaded > through the cleaning rod and dry out the outer tubes. If > this paper towel comes out black, that's OK. You probably > won't be able to get all of it out right away. > 5) Now is a good time to check your alignment. Work > the slide dry, inserting the top tube (the one the > mouthpiece goes in) in the top outer slide tube (the one > with the slide lock). It should work very freely, with no > hesitation. If it binds up, then you have bowed tubes, > and you need to have them straightened. Repeat the same > with the other pair of tubes. Then try both sets of tubes > together. If they work freely, you're good to go. If not, > then you have a distance problem somewhere between the > U-bend and the hand brace. It's time to have this problem > remedied, because if you don't it will wear the chrome > plating off the inner tubes in short order, depending on > how severe the problem is. > 6) Use a small amount of cream (Superslik or Conn). > Here's where a lot of people go wrong. Usually, you can > get enough on the end of your index finger, and this will > be enough for BOTH tubes. Apply the cream to the > stockings (the lower 3" of the inner slide tubes). There > should not be any of the white of the cream showing as > you rub the cream into the tubes. > 7) Transfer the cream from the inner tubes to the > inside of the outer tubes by working them together. 40-50 > times should do it. > 8) Wipe the remaining cream off the inner slides. It > might come out black, but that's OK. The cream acts as a > cleaning agent, and if you repeat this 2-3 a week, > eventually you will get more and more of the black out, > and consequently your slide will become faster with each > cleaning. > 9) Use 1 drop of the Superslik silicone or Conn > Formula 3 and rub it over the entire inner slide suface > until it is warm to the touch. > 10) Spray with water, insert the inner tubes into the > outer tubes, and it should FLY out of 1st position. It > should also be very quiet. > > Even if you have had your slide chemically cleaned, you > need to polish the outer tubes so that they are very > shiny. If any of you have ever stripped the laquer off a > bell, then polished it with Brasso, you know just how > shiny brass can get. That's what you want on the inside > of the outer slide tubes. > > ABOUT THE TEFLON TREATMENTS. > > John Upchurch feels that his Superslide treatment > helps to retard the oxidation process. I have the upmost > respect for John, but in my experience, if you would > Brasso out your outer tubes every 6 months, this teflon > treatment isn't necessary. Quick story: Mike Carver, our > bass trombonist in the Chattanooga Symphony, came to me > Sunday afternoon and said that he was going to have to > send his slide to John. I felt the slide, and recommended > that he use Brasso the inside of the outer tubes very > well and use Dawn Dishwashing Detergent to wash out the > residue. He did it and he saved himself $65 for a slide > setup. The slide was REMARKABLY better Monday night at > rehearsal. > Here's something else. About 10 years ago, I bought a > brass Bach 42 slide from someone. I took a look at the > inside of the outer tubes, and they were COMPLETELY > BLACK. I cut a piece of a worn out 3M scrubbie pad 1" x > 3" and threaded into a cleaning rod, and using just Dawn > Dishwashing Detergent, I scrubbed the inside of the outer > tubes. The black started ROLLING out of them. In fact, I > had to scrub each tube 3 different times in order to get > all of the black out. Now mind you--this was an EXTREME > case of OXIDATION. I then sent the slide to John > Upchurch, and he straightened the tubes, and he said that > I had done a FANTASTIC job of cleaning them out. That > slide was the envy of all of the trombone players in this > town. Moral--if you've never polished the inside of the > outer tubes, they will eventually turn BLACK, and you > will have to remove this oxidation before your slide will > be quick and smooth. Drastic measures for drastic > situations. > Don't worry about removing the metal off the inside > of the slide with Brasso. It will take a very long time > (many, many years) before you increase the tolerances > between the inner and outer slides even a little bit. > Also, Brass also works very well on nickel silver slides. > > > OTHER THINGS TO CONSIDER > > If your tubes are bent, or if there is a distance > problem between the U-bend and the hand brace, there's a > good possibility that they came from the factory that > way, and you just learned to live with it. However, > here's what you can do to eradicate warping your slide > after you've had it straightened. > 1) NEVER stand your trombone on the slide. The weight > of the horn will eventually bow the tubes something like > a banana. > 2) NEVER sit on your case. Your weight will quickly > bow the slide out of alignment. > 3) Make sure your case, particularly the slide > compartment, is good and sturdy, and if you can avoid it, > do not set your trombone on the ground in the case with > the weight of the case on the slide. Stand your case on > the end if possible. > 4) If your trombone is out of the case, and you must > set it down, set it down so that the bell, tuning slide & > mouthpiece touch the table of floor simultaneously. > 5) ALWAYS use a trombone stand. Never take your > trombone anywhere without it. > > I trust that this will be helpful to all of you, both > young and old, student and professional. If your slide is > in the shop, then you can't play, and the fewer times > that your slide has to be straightened, the longer it > will last. Brass is very soft, and it only has so much > metal memory, and after a while the tubes can become very > soft, where you can almost look at them crosseyed and > they will bend. Nickel silver is much better, as it > tempers harder than brass: therfore it's harder to knock > a nickel silver slide out of alignment, but it's also > harder to put it back once it has been knocked out. > > Sincerely, > > > Paul Kemp > Chattanooga Symphony > www.trbnplyr.com > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 21:24:48 -0700 From: David Oliver Subject: Re: Your incoherent posts//slide tip OK, I gotta admit this exchange was a good way to end a busy day at work! (another one of those smiley faces) I read Mike Suter's reply first (started chuckling), then this original one with the original post. I'm still laughing minutes later. I sometimes joke about the Denver Concert Band being a big, and sometimes disfunctional (those darned euphoniums you know) extended family, and the trombone list is certainly not an exception. We overall are more exceptional than not though, and have learned to live with each other's quirks. I've met a fair amount of you, but I feel I know many more just from your writings over these last 5 years (wow, time flies). I can see a name and basically know what'll be next, even down to writing style. Yes, DJ can be hard to follow, but he looks to know a great deal about older horns and some other things. Anyone who contributes to the t-list is OK in my book. David Oliver Broomfield, Colorado USA Trombone, Denver Concert Band "D.J. Kennedy" wrote: > i hereby formally apologize to the technical writers and literary > critics > and non -english and non- poetry majors > for my incoherent posts on or about the subject of trombones > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > and have a happy day ---smiley face > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > if you cant dig it delete it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > ---------------------------------------------------- > thank you mr jefferson for your ideas on freedom > ------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------- > and thanks for the slide lube/maintainence tips ----here's another one > ----use black rouge made for buffing stainless steel and chrome > on a piece of suede for putting the highest possible shine and > smoothness > to the surface of the gleaming glittering flawless perfection > that is your > inner slide > this perfection is possible in inanimate objects but so often > lacking in people > Philbne@aol.com wrote: > > > You obviously can't form a coherent sentence nor thought. How you tied > > the two party system, fascism, and the English language together is > > beyond belief. Nice tirade you spewed out too. That's the juvenile > > attitude I wrote about. You impressed no one. > > I'm not asking you to change your train of thought, just make it > > easier to follow. (It's all over the place) > > But go ahead and ramble on oh great 'jazz thinker' nut job! > > Your ramblings will join the spam I receive right after I hit the > > delete key. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 23:02:14 -0600 From: "D.J. Kennedy" Subject: Re: Your incoherent posts//slide tip thanks and as one who sits next to euphos sometimes being in tune with each other is one of the great things about trombonists ---the slide positions not being an exact thing we learn to play by ear David Oliver wrote: > OK, I gotta admit this exchange was a good way to end a busy day at work! > (another one of those smiley faces) > > I read Mike Suter's reply first (started chuckling), then this original one with > the original post. I'm still laughing minutes later. > > I sometimes joke about the Denver Concert Band being a big, and sometimes > disfunctional (those darned euphoniums you know) extended family, and the > trombone list is certainly not an exception. > We overall are more exceptional than not though, and have learned to live with > each other's quirks. I've met a fair amount of you, but I feel I know many more > just from your writings over these last 5 years (wow, time flies). I can see a > name and basically know what'll be next, even down to writing style. > > Yes, DJ can be hard to follow, but he looks to know a great deal about older > horns and some other things. Anyone who contributes to the t-list is OK in my > book. > > David Oliver > Broomfield, Colorado USA > Trombone, Denver Concert Band > > "D.J. Kennedy" wrote: > > > i hereby formally apologize to the technical writers and literary > > critics > > and non -english and non- poetry majors > > for my incoherent posts on or about the subject of trombones > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > and have a happy day ---smiley face > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > if you cant dig it delete it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > thank you mr jefferson for your ideas on freedom > > ------------------------------------------- > > > > ------------------------------- > > and thanks for the slide lube/maintainence tips ----here's another one > > ----use black rouge made for buffing stainless steel and chrome > > on a piece of suede for putting the highest possible shine and > > smoothness > > to the surface of the gleaming glittering flawless perfection > > that is your > > inner slide > > this perfection is possible in inanimate objects but so often > > lacking in people > > Philbne@aol.com wrote: > > > > > You obviously can't form a coherent sentence nor thought. How you tied > > > the two party system, fascism, and the English language together is > > > beyond belief. Nice tirade you spewed out too. That's the juvenile > > > attitude I wrote about. You impressed no one. > > > I'm not asking you to change your train of thought, just make it > > > easier to follow. (It's all over the place) > > > But go ahead and ramble on oh great 'jazz thinker' nut job! > > > Your ramblings will join the spam I receive right after I hit the > > > delete key. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 00:09:45 -0500 From: Art Triggs Subject: Re: Fwd: Slide Maintenance something more to add my .02 two...;-), Brasso is petroleum based and can be hard to clean out sometimes, I like using wright's silver polish only because it is water based, and seems easier to clean after you polish the inside slide tube - cheesecloth works better for me as paper towels, have a way of breaking apart and getting stuck.....I also keep a supply of long flannel strips to use after I clean out the polish residue - works out well for me. The people I have done this for seem to be happy with it as well. Art Triggs ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gabriel Langfur" To: Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 2:40 PM Subject: [TBN-L] Fwd: Slide Maintenance > Hi Richard and list...I saved this set of instructions from > Paul Kemp about using brass polish to thoroughly clean the > outer slides...Paul, I didn't think you'd mind... > > FWIW, I use cheesecloth instead of paper towels on the > cleaning rod > --- "Paul D. Kemp Jr." wrote: > > Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 21:02:40 -0500 > > From: "Paul D. Kemp Jr." > > To: "Trombones and related issues forum." > > > > Subject: Slide Maintenance > > > > Dear Listers: > > I have been very busy, but I do read the trombone-l > > messages daily, and I can usually glean something from > > them. Someone mentioned something about my slide > > maintenance formula, and it is true that I posted a quite > > lengthy regimen several years ago. I can simplify it some > > here, and if this regimen is followed faithfully, it will > > enhance your playing technique, as well as keeping your > > slide out of the shop. I have posted quite a few of these > > things on my website, but periodically, they bear > > repeating here for the new members who join our ranks. > > First of all, if you haven't done so, I would highly > > recommend that you visit John Upchurch's website at > > www.slidedr.com . Most of what I have learned about > > slides I have learned from this extremely generous man, > > and he gives all of the essentials to having a great > > slide in this concise website. > > Most of the problems that I have encountered with > > students' slides (and some professionals, I might add) > > has to do with keeping the slide clean. When I say clean, > > I mean REALLY CLEAN. When a slide comes from the factory, > > it is not clean. Clean, in my book, means that the inside > > of the outer tubes are polished. If you're still in the > > dark about what I'm talking about, take some Brasso and > > polish the part of your tuning slide that fits into the > > bell. (Incidentally, don't use Brasso on lacquered > > surfaces, as it will take the lacquer off. If you do get > > some on a laquered surface, be sure to wipe it off > > immediately. ) You will notice that the brass will turn > > very, very black. After you wipe the Brasso off, you will > > begin to notice an extremely beautiful luster. This is > > what you want the inside of the slide tubes to be like. > > 1) Pour a small amount of Brasso in each tube. A > > tablespoon full will do. > > 2) With a straight cleaning rod threaded with a paper > > towel (if you have .547 bore or .562 slide) or a paper > > napkin for the .525 bore or smaller instruments, insert > > the cleaning rod into one of the slide tubes and work > > each tube about 100-150 times, and really concentrate on > > the lower 8" of the tube, as it seems this is where most > > of the oxidation occurs. The metal should get warm or hot > > to the touch. Be sure to hold on to the tube that you are > > working on so that you do not bend the tubes out of > > alignment. > > 3) After you've really Brassoed out each tube, use > > Dawn Dishwashing Detergent & water or Go-Jo Hand Cleaner > > & water to remove the residue left by the Brasso. Wash > > the slide out with a snake, and notice the color of the > > water as you dump the water out of the outer slide. It > > should be gray to black. > > 4) Take a clean paper towel or napkin threaded > > through the cleaning rod and dry out the outer tubes. If > > this paper towel comes out black, that's OK. You probably > > won't be able to get all of it out right away. > > 5) Now is a good time to check your alignment. Work > > the slide dry, inserting the top tube (the one the > > mouthpiece goes in) in the top outer slide tube (the one > > with the slide lock). It should work very freely, with no > > hesitation. If it binds up, then you have bowed tubes, > > and you need to have them straightened. Repeat the same > > with the other pair of tubes. Then try both sets of tubes > > together. If they work freely, you're good to go. If not, > > then you have a distance problem somewhere between the > > U-bend and the hand brace. It's time to have this problem > > remedied, because if you don't it will wear the chrome > > plating off the inner tubes in short order, depending on > > how severe the problem is. > > 6) Use a small amount of cream (Superslik or Conn). > > Here's where a lot of people go wrong. Usually, you can > > get enough on the end of your index finger, and this will > > be enough for BOTH tubes. Apply the cream to the > > stockings (the lower 3" of the inner slide tubes). There > > should not be any of the white of the cream showing as > > you rub the cream into the tubes. > > 7) Transfer the cream from the inner tubes to the > > inside of the outer tubes by working them together. 40-50 > > times should do it. > > 8) Wipe the remaining cream off the inner slides. It > > might come out black, but that's OK. The cream acts as a > > cleaning agent, and if you repeat this 2-3 a week, > > eventually you will get more and more of the black out, > > and consequently your slide will become faster with each > > cleaning. > > 9) Use 1 drop of the Superslik silicone or Conn > > Formula 3 and rub it over the entire inner slide suface > > until it is warm to the touch. > > 10) Spray with water, insert the inner tubes into the > > outer tubes, and it should FLY out of 1st position. It > > should also be very quiet. > > > > Even if you have had your slide chemically cleaned, you > > need to polish the outer tubes so that they are very > > shiny. If any of you have ever stripped the laquer off a > > bell, then polished it with Brasso, you know just how > > shiny brass can get. That's what you want on the inside > > of the outer slide tubes. > > > > ABOUT THE TEFLON TREATMENTS. > > > > John Upchurch feels that his Superslide treatment > > helps to retard the oxidation process. I have the upmost > > respect for John, but in my experience, if you would > > Brasso out your outer tubes every 6 months, this teflon > > treatment isn't necessary. Quick story: Mike Carver, our > > bass trombonist in the Chattanooga Symphony, came to me > > Sunday afternoon and said that he was going to have to > > send his slide to John. I felt the slide, and recommended > > that he use Brasso the inside of the outer tubes very > > well and use Dawn Dishwashing Detergent to wash out the > > residue. He did it and he saved himself $65 for a slide > > setup. The slide was REMARKABLY better Monday night at > > rehearsal. > > Here's something else. About 10 years ago, I bought a > > brass Bach 42 slide from someone. I took a look at the > > inside of the outer tubes, and they were COMPLETELY > > BLACK. I cut a piece of a worn out 3M scrubbie pad 1" x > > 3" and threaded into a cleaning rod, and using just Dawn > > Dishwashing Detergent, I scrubbed the inside of the outer > > tubes. The black started ROLLING out of them. In fact, I > > had to scrub each tube 3 different times in order to get > > all of the black out. Now mind you--this was an EXTREME > > case of OXIDATION. I then sent the slide to John > > Upchurch, and he straightened the tubes, and he said that > > I had done a FANTASTIC job of cleaning them out. That > > slide was the envy of all of the trombone players in this > > town. Moral--if you've never polished the inside of the > > outer tubes, they will eventually turn BLACK, and you > > will have to remove this oxidation before your slide will > > be quick and smooth. Drastic measures for drastic > > situations. > > Don't worry about removing the metal off the inside > > of the slide with Brasso. It will take a very long time > > (many, many years) before you increase the tolerances > > between the inner and outer slides even a little bit. > > Also, Brass also works very well on nickel silver slides. > > > > > > OTHER THINGS TO CONSIDER > > > > If your tubes are bent, or if there is a distance > > problem between the U-bend and the hand brace, there's a > > good possibility that they came from the factory that > > way, and you just learned to live with it. However, > > here's what you can do to eradicate warping your slide > > after you've had it straightened. > > 1) NEVER stand your trombone on the slide. The weight > > of the horn will eventually bow the tubes something like > > a banana. > > 2) NEVER sit on your case. Your weight will quickly > > bow the slide out of alignment. > > 3) Make sure your case, particularly the slide > > compartment, is good and sturdy, and if you can avoid it, > > do not set your trombone on the ground in the case with > > the weight of the case on the slide. Stand your case on > > the end if possible. > > 4) If your trombone is out of the case, and you must > > set it down, set it down so that the bell, tuning slide & > > mouthpiece touch the table of floor simultaneously. > > 5) ALWAYS use a trombone stand. Never take your > > trombone anywhere without it. > > > > I trust that this will be helpful to all of you, both > > young and old, student and professional. If your slide is > > in the shop, then you can't play, and the fewer times > > that your slide has to be straightened, the longer it > > will last. Brass is very soft, and it only has so much > > metal memory, and after a while the tubes can become very > > soft, where you can almost look at them crosseyed and > > they will bend. Nickel silver is much better, as it > > tempers harder than brass: therfore it's harder to knock > > a nickel silver slide out of alignment, but it's also > > harder to put it back once it has been knocked out. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > > > Paul Kemp > > Chattanooga Symphony > > www.trbnplyr.com > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos > http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 > ------------------------------ End of TROMBONE-L Digest - 6 Nov 2002 to 7 Nov 2002 (#2002-117) ***************************************************************