Subject: TROMBONE-L Digest - 29 Oct 2002 to 30 Oct 2002 (#2002-109) There are 28 messages totalling 1433 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Replacement Thayer Question (5) 2. Here's something interesting (4) 3. Notes from the Alessi Seminar in Italy 4. Thayer valves (5) 5. My new store ("The Trombone Store") (5) 6. Thayer Valves 7. Edwards stores was RE: [TBN-L] Thayer Valves 8. Lebedev Concerto orch material available 9. [Fwd: Here's Something Interesting] 10. Edwards mistake 11. conn 79h up for grabs !!! 12. New Tenor & Bass Solos Released 13. sold 79 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 05:43:34 -0600 From: Scott Moore Subject: Re: Replacement Thayer Question Thanks, Randy. I have learned that the horn was a custom job from a Chicago shop, so they will get the valve replaced with another style of Thayer. Scott On Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 09:32 PM, Randy Campora wrote: > At 09:36 PM 10/29/2002 -0500, Randy Campora wrote: >> because you can always take metal off a leaky valve and >> tighten it up, but you can't add room inside the cone, at least that >> I am >> aware of. > > > Sorry, I need to correct myself here: of course you can take metal off > the > underside of the flat top of the cone to loosen a tight thayer valve. > They > take metal off the top of the bottom part of the casing to tighten a > valve > up. These are both difficult to do perfectly, as one needs to take the > metal off incredibley evenly in both cases so the valve won't stick or > be > leaky. But the pros can do it, they usually use some kind of lapping > solution or sand paper on top of a slide-leveling stone. > > ~RC > > D. Scott Moore, Bass Trombone Music Department Gustavus Adolphus College phone: 507-933-6260 email: down8ve@hickorytech.net http://www.gustavus.edu/~smoore ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 06:48:38 -0700 From: Steve Gamble Subject: Here's something interesting Thursday's (10/24) Calgary Herald carries a letter to the editor from Gordon Cherry, principal trombone with the Vancouver Symphony and a member of the CBC Radio Orchestra. Cherry responds to an opinion piece by Ric Dolphin published Oct. 18, titled "It's time to pull the plug on the CPO," in which the Calgary Philharmonic Orchestra is criticized for its deficits. "If symphony orchestras and other non-profit arts groups must be held up to the same strict bottom-line financial scrutiny as for-profit corporations, then shouldn't most for-profit Canadian corporations also have the plug pulled on them?" Citing the earnings reports of "most Canadian corporations," he writes, "Many of these businesses have financial support through government money that comes from our tax dollars. The same corporate leaders who criticize the arts for being bloodsuckers of tax dollars apply for tax incentives, subsidies, etc. from the same governments. And when they have their red ink, layoffs, and scandals, does Dolphin call for their businesses to be shut down?" Steve Gamble, Librarian Tucson Symphony Orchestra 2175 N. 6th Ave. Tucson, AZ 85705 sgamble@tucsonsymphony.org 520-792-9155 x118 520-792-9314 fax 520-991-7056 cel ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 09:28:14 -0500 From: Keith Davis Subject: Re: Notes from the Alessi Seminar in Italy At 12:00 AM 10/30/2002 -0600, you wrote: >From: James Scott >Subject: Notes from the Alessi Seminar in Italy > >Hi Everyone - > >I had the great privilege of being a participant at the Alessi Seminar, >held this past summer in Limone, Piemonte, Italy. It was an inspiring >time .... These were great, thanks! Keith Davis ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 10:12:30 -0500 From: Roger Hecht Subject: Re: Here's something interesting Steve Gamble wrote: >Thursday's (10/24) Calgary Herald carries a letter to the editor from >Gordon Cherry, principal trombone with the Vancouver Symphony and a >member of the CBC Radio Orchestra. Cherry responds to an opinion piece >by Ric Dolphin published Oct. 18, titled "It's time to pull the plug on >the CPO," in which the Calgary Philharmonic Orchestra is criticized for >its deficits. "If symphony orchestras and other non-profit arts groups >must be held up to the same strict bottom-line financial scrutiny as >for-profit corporations, then shouldn't most for-profit Canadian >corporations also have the plug pulled on them?" Citing the earnings >reports of "most Canadian corporations," he writes, "Many of these >businesses have financial support through government money that comes >from our tax dollars. The same corporate leaders who criticize the arts >for being bloodsuckers of tax dollars apply for tax incentives, >subsidies, etc. from the same governments. And when they have their red >ink, layoffs, and scandals, does Dolphin call for their businesses to be >shut down?" Gordon Cherry should be careful about confusing people like Mr. Dolphin with good logic. Watching them babble and huff and puff when their silliness is caught in the cookie jar is never pretty. [Actually, it is.] Roger Hecht ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 10:25:15 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee Subject: Re: Replacement Thayer Question At 05:41 PM 10/29/2002 -0600, Scott Moore wrote: >The valve is completely pitted and leaks like crazy. My student has >owned the horn for seven years, about the lifespan of the valves in my >Edwards before I had it rebuilt a couple of months ago. A lifespan of 7 years? I could understand that if there is a Teflon coating that wears out, but if we are talking about regular metal valves, it seems that they should last indefinitely when cleaned and oiled regularly. What am I missing here? Why would they have a limited life? Thanks, Craig ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 10:31:57 -0500 From: Chuck De Paolo Subject: Re: Here's something interesting Problem is, it's idiots like his Dolphin that tend to make enough noise to make governments change their policies. That's why it's important for those among us who know the score, Cherry in this case, to speak up and be heard. If all the politicos hear is one side of the story, they'll assume no one cares from the other side and will act accordingly. ---Chuck ----- Original Message ----- >>subsidies, etc. from the same governments. And when they have their red >>ink, layoffs, and scandals, does Dolphin call for their businesses to be >>shut down?" >Gordon Cherry should be careful about confusing people like Mr. Dolphin >with good logic. Watching them babble and huff and puff when their >silliness is caught in the cookie jar is never pretty. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 10:39:48 -0600 From: "D. Scott Moore" Subject: Re: Replacement Thayer Question Craig, If you play and Edwards, and have had it for about six years, I would send it to the factory to have the valves machined to original specs and have the small hole in each valve sealed. This makes a big difference. My horn was awful, but the change is so gradual that you may not notice unless you play another horn. My valves seized right before a performance earlier this year. I borrowed another horn and learned that some of my inconsistencies were not my fault (every musician's dream). DSM On Wednesday, October 30, 2002, at 09:25 AM, Craig Parmerlee wrote: > At 05:41 PM 10/29/2002 -0600, Scott Moore wrote: >> The valve is completely pitted and leaks like crazy. My student has >> owned the horn for seven years, about the lifespan of the valves in my >> Edwards before I had it rebuilt a couple of months ago. > > A lifespan of 7 years? I could understand that if there is a Teflon > coating that wears out, but if we are talking about regular metal > valves, > it seems that they should last indefinitely when cleaned and oiled > regularly. What am I missing here? Why would they have a limited > life? > > Thanks, > Craig > > Scott Moore Music Department Gustavus Adolphus College Saint Peter, MN 56082 (507)933-6260 smoore@gustavus.edu http://www.gustavus.edu/~smoore ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 12:09:37 -0500 From: Roger Hecht Subject: Re: Here's something interesting Chuck De Paolo wrote: >Problem is, it's idiots like his Dolphin that tend to make enough noise to >make governments change their policies. That's why it's important for those >among us who know the score, Cherry in this case, to speak up and be heard. >If all the politicos hear is one side of the story, they'll assume no one >cares from the other side and will act accordingly. > >---Chuck > >----- Original Message ----- > >>subsidies, etc. from the same governments. And when they have their red > >>ink, layoffs, and scandals, does Dolphin call for their businesses to be > >>shut down?" > > >Gordon Cherry should be careful about confusing people like Mr. Dolphin > >with good logic. Watching them babble and huff and puff when their > >silliness is caught in the cookie jar is never pretty. Absolutely true. That was just my (extremely) cynical sense of humor speaking. I'm very glad to see what was a fine (and accurate) letter actually printed. Roger Hecht ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 13:03:44 -0500 From: "Paul D. Kemp, Jr." Subject: Thayer valves I have been following this discussion with great interest. I have had several Thayer valves, and the best one that I had was one that was fabricated by Ed Thayer that was coated with iodized aluminum. Be that as it may, and I trust that I do not have to run for cover here, but there are too many horror stories out there with Thayer valves. I do have one, and I'll share it with anyone who wants to hear about it privately. What D Scott Moore said about a 7 year life--that's not uncommon, particularly with the ones that Edwards makes. The long and short of it is this--if you're playing the horn for a living, you need a horn that can be depended on, with regular maintenance. 7 years for a valve? The rotary valves last 30, 40, 50 years with regular maintenance--most of them the life of the instrument. The rotary valve concepts has been proven in the trenches. Gary Greenhoe knows this, and he has figured out a way to make it blow better and he has also lightened it with some very intricate machining. I like the way it performs and more importantly, the way that it sounds. Wonderful core and focus. Considering the quality of workmanship along with the quality of customer service that you're getting, the price, is my opinion, is money well spent. Many players out there have been the Thayer route and gone back to the rotary valve concept. Steve Shires makes his own rotary valve. Doug Yeo is playing rotary valves on his customized Yamaha. I know of other player who have tried the Thayers, and they go back to the performance and sound of the rotary valve. I'm a pretty simple person--if something works well consistently, then I don't go messing with it, at least without getting some good advice from players that I respect very much and also repairmen. Most of our problems can be solved with the help of a good coach and putting in the right kind of time in the practice room. Paul Kemp Chattanooga Symphony www.trbnplyr.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 13:25:03 -0400 From: sabutin Subject: My new store ("The Trombone Store") OK, rumours are beginning to pop up here and there...I've been getting phone calls, emails...so here's the scoop. Yes, I am opening a by appointment only store dedicated exclusively to trombones in New York City...Riverdale, actually, a great neighborhood about 20 minutes north midtown by subway or car, lots of parking, only a few blocks from the IRT #1 subway line. I'm calling it "The Trombone Store". It somehow has always seemed wrong to me that there is no high-end brass store in NYC proper, and although I don't have the resources, time or knowledge to start a general brass store, I think I've got enough to pull this trombones only idea off. A nice space came open last month directly below where I live in Riverdale, and I have leased it. I am still in the process of contacting various makers, but there will be some great high end horn lines there, plus lots of used instruments of the very best quality, new and used m'pces, mutes, cases...the works. The only limitation I am putting on it is this...I will only stock horns and equipment that I like, stuff that I would play if it fit my needs. I am also going to use the space as a teaching and rehearsal/practice studio. It will not be open until at least mid-November, and probably not fully stocked until even later. I've never done anything like this before, so I can't really predict how complicated this project will be. I am in the process of accumulating a very interesting stock of used instruments, and have connected w/several people in the NY area who among them own well over 300 older, fine horns as well, and well continue doing custom searches for used horns tailored to meet individual players' requirements also. There will be a website, of course...again, mid-November at the earliest...and all the trimmings. I'm going into this project whole hog plus postage, limited only by available funds, time and space. Anyway...that's what's happening...save your emails + phone calls. I'll let you know when things are up and running. Later... Sam Burtis ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 12:35:54 -0600 From: "D.Scott Moore" Subject: Re: Thayer valves Paul, Dare I mention the outcome of my student's playing test of 5 different Conn 88's? While all were spectacular instruments, the favorite was the regular, plain 88H. The open wrap seemed to be more of a curse than a blessing (not Blessing), and no one liked the feel/sound of the CL valve unless it was below the staff. I played a horn on some concerts last week that was a real throwback, rotary valve and all. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Scott On Wednesday, October 30, 2002, at 12:03 PM, Paul D. Kemp, Jr. wrote: > I have been following this discussion with great interest. I have had > several Thayer valves, and the best one that I had was one that was > fabricated by Ed Thayer that was coated with iodized aluminum. Be that > as it > may, and I trust that I do not have to run for cover here, but there > are too > many horror stories out there with Thayer valves. I do have one, and > I'll > share it with anyone who wants to hear about it privately. What D Scott > Moore said about a 7 year life--that's not uncommon, particularly with > the > ones that Edwards makes. The long and short of it is this--if you're > playing > the horn for a living, you need a horn that can be depended on, with > regular > maintenance. 7 years for a valve? The rotary valves last 30, 40, 50 > years > with regular maintenance--most of them the life of the instrument. The > rotary valve concepts has been proven in the trenches. Gary Greenhoe > knows > this, and he has figured out a way to make it blow better and he has > also > lightened it with some very intricate machining. I like the way it > performs > and more importantly, the way that it sounds. Wonderful core and focus. > Considering the quality of workmanship along with the quality of > customer > service that you're getting, the price, is my opinion, is money well > spent. > Many players out there have been the Thayer route and gone back to the > rotary valve concept. Steve Shires makes his own rotary valve. Doug > Yeo is > playing rotary valves on his customized Yamaha. I know of other player > who > have tried the Thayers, and they go back to the performance and sound > of the > rotary valve. I'm a pretty simple person--if something works well > consistently, then I don't go messing with it, at least without > getting some > good advice from players that I respect very much and also repairmen. > Most > of our problems can be solved with the help of a good coach and > putting in > the right kind of time in the practice room. > > Paul Kemp > Chattanooga Symphony > www.trbnplyr.com > > Scott Moore Music Department Gustavus Adolphus College Saint Peter, MN 56082 (507)933-6260 smoore@gustavus.edu http://www.gustavus.edu/~smoore ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 10:47:21 -0800 From: bassboneman@YAHOO.COM Subject: Re: Thayer valves Hi all, Please read the following post knowing that my affiliation is with the Edwards Co. I disagree with the concept of the "seven-year life span" of the Edwards Thayers. I purchased my bass in 1992 and have never had a problem with the valves. I do clean them on a regular basis, which probably has something to do with them working properly a decade later. I also recently received a new Edwards, and the valves on it are fantastic, requiring even less maintenance. Paul, I appreciate your posts, but you sometimes infer that those who play Thayers are looking to attain a level of playing through equipment rather than practice. I respectfully disagree. I've tried every valve out there, and for me, the Thayers are the most open and easiest to play. More importantly, I get the best sound when playing an instrument with Thayer valves. I hear wonderful things about Greenhoe, Hagmann, and CL2000 valves. I think these recent innovations and the competition among trombone makers is great for consumers. However, I don't think in order for one to be good, the others have to be less than desirable. Joshua Brown Edwards Webmaster --- "Paul D. Kemp, Jr." wrote: > I have been following this discussion with great > interest. I have had > several Thayer valves, and the best one that I had > was one that was > fabricated by Ed Thayer that was coated with iodized > aluminum. Be that as it > may, and I trust that I do not have to run for cover > here, but there are too > many horror stories out there with Thayer valves. I > do have one, and I'll > share it with anyone who wants to hear about it > privately. What D Scott > Moore said about a 7 year life--that's not uncommon, > particularly with the > ones that Edwards makes. The long and short of it is > this--if you're playing > the horn for a living, you need a horn that can be > depended on, with regular > maintenance. 7 years for a valve? The rotary valves > last 30, 40, 50 years > with regular maintenance--most of them the life of > the instrument. The > rotary valve concepts has been proven in the > trenches. Gary Greenhoe knows > this, and he has figured out a way to make it blow > better and he has also > lightened it with some very intricate machining. I > like the way it performs > and more importantly, the way that it sounds. > Wonderful core and focus. > Considering the quality of workmanship along with > the quality of customer > service that you're getting, the price, is my > opinion, is money well spent. > Many players out there have been the Thayer route > and gone back to the > rotary valve concept. Steve Shires makes his own > rotary valve. Doug Yeo is > playing rotary valves on his customized Yamaha. I > know of other player who > have tried the Thayers, and they go back to the > performance and sound of the > rotary valve. I'm a pretty simple person--if > something works well > consistently, then I don't go messing with it, at > least without getting some > good advice from players that I respect very much > and also repairmen. Most > of our problems can be solved with the help of a > good coach and putting in > the right kind of time in the practice room. > > Paul Kemp > Chattanooga Symphony > www.trbnplyr.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 12:16:01 -0800 From: ETHAYER Subject: Re: Replacement Thayer Question Scot, This is quite a mystery to unravel. I gathered from your messages the following: Please check the facts to be sure I have them straight. The Bach 42T was purchased about seven years ago. Your latest 10/30/02 email said this was a custom job by a Chicago shop, the Brass Bow? Thayer Valve International, Ed's company, had manufactured anodized cast aluminum rotors since 1993. So this was evidently an "Orla Ed Thayer" valve. These valves have been machined by the same machinist since 1993. It is possible to purchase an "Orla Ed Thayer" rotor to fit into the existing valve casing. The list price is $90. Bach 42Ts with anodized cast aluminum rotors were not sold by Bach until 1997. These were the "Orla Ed Thayer" valves manufactured by Thayer Valve International, Ed Thayer's company. The "O.E. Thayer Co." name has been used by Ed's former partner, Jim Nydigger, since 1986. Confusing, but factual. The timeline for manufacture of anodized aluminum rotors is this: 1992 The first anodized cast aluminum rotor valves (rotors not a full cone) were tested by TVI. 1993 Production and sales of the "Orla Ed Thayer" valves began. O.E. Thayer Company produced Thayer valves with rotors made of four brass or stainless steel pieces brazed together, machined (full cone) and plated (possibly nickel plating). 1997 TVI sold valve units to Bach beginning in April marked as "Orla Ed Thayer" eventually a registered trademark. 1998, late July, TVI was stopped from manufacturing and selling Thayer valves. TVI's valves, units and tooling were stolen on November 21 1998. O.E. Thayer Company began selling, in February 1999, the anodized aluminum rotor valve units, eventually to Bach. Some of these were recognized as TVI valves and parts. TVI began tooling up for production after the Thayer '002 patent expired and became in the public domain September 4, 2001. TVI began selling valves and valve units in January 2002 This is quite a tangle, but if anyone has questions about Thayer valves please email me with serial numbers and dates. I will answer them to the best of my knowledge. Barbara Thayer Ph. 541-563-2183 Fax: 541-563-5806 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Moore" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 3:41 PM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Replacement Thayer Question > Eric, > > The valve is completely pitted and leaks like crazy. My student has > owned the horn for seven years, about the lifespan of the valves in my > Edwards before I had it rebuilt a couple of months ago. > > If you know someone who sells replacement parts for these particular > valves please let me know. I imagine a quick call to Osmun could solve > the problem. > > DSM > > On Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 01:12 PM, bonearzt@mindspring.com > wrote: > > > Hi Scott, I would recommend the Greenhoe wholeheartedly. > > But if this is an original OE Thayer, why would you want to replace > > it? Is > > the valve or casing damaged? > > The original valve is probably the best around, IMHO. > > Thanks > > Eric Edwards > > bonearzt@mindspring.com > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 29 Oct 2002 11:37:02 -0600 "D.Scott Moore" > > > > wrote: > > > >> Dear List, > >> > >> I have a student who has one of the Bach 42t's > >> with the O E Thayer > >> valve. This is the one with the inner workings > >> that looks as if it is > >> made of pot metal and is an incomplete "cone." > >> > >> While it would be nice to recommend a Greenhoe > >> conversion, she would > >> like to keep the costs down. What is a good > >> Thayer replacement for > >> this valve, and who does it? > >> > >> > >> Scott Moore > >> Music Department > >> Gustavus Adolphus College > >> Saint Peter, MN 56082 > >> (507)933-6260 > >> smoore@gustavus.edu > >> http://www.gustavus.edu/~smoore > >> > > > > > D. Scott Moore, Bass Trombone > Music Department > Gustavus Adolphus College > phone: 507-933-6260 > email: down8ve@hickorytech.net > http://www.gustavus.edu/~smoore ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 15:22:07 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee Subject: Re: Thayer valves At 10:47 AM 10/30/2002 -0800, bassboneman@YAHOO.COM wrote: >I disagree with the concept of the "seven-year life >span" of the Edwards Thayers. I purchased my bass in >1992 and have never had a problem with the valves. I >do clean them on a regular basis, which probably has >something to do with them working properly a decade >later. I also recently received a new Edwards, and >the valves on it are fantastic, requiring even less >maintenance. I appreciate the various views about the Thayer valve. Clearly there are people who have had a poor experience. Some of the valves may have been manufactured poorly, or had coatings that come off. I can understand all that. What I don't understand is why a metal valve that is manufactured properly, works properly, and is cleaned and oiled regularly should have a finite life. I am a big proponent of high quality synthetic oils. I've used Mobil One in all my vehicles since it came on the market about 20 years ago. I've never had an engine wear out before the car. This time I have taken great care to protect the car body (frequent washing, always parked in garage, etc. to try to see if I can wear out the engine before the rest of the car. I'm at about 125,000 and the thing still runs like the first day. No change in the oil consumption pattern after the first 2000 miles (about half a quart used during the 6000-8000 mile interval I use for oil changes). I view the Trombone equivalent to Mobil-1 to be Binak Pro. If I am careful to not put any sand down my tuning slide and I clean and relube with Binak every few weeks, why should the valve change? I guess I could understand if somebody were playing if very dusty environments, but most concrete factories don't employ brass quintets. Let me assume that there is some natural deterioration in the best Thayer valves over the span of 7 years. Can anybody please be specific about how this would manifest itself? What test can I perform to determine that my valve is no longer "factory fresh" and should be worked on. Thanks, Craig ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 14:25:41 -0600 From: "Michael B. McCreless" Subject: Re: Thayer Valves I to am not impressed with the Thayer valve, one of my students valve casing cracked on him. I have talked to a music store owner who dropped the Edwards line because of the maintenance problems he had to contend with. I just like the way a rotor valve works and sounds and have never found anything else to change my mind. Maybe it is age but rotors are a more efficient mechanism. Michael B. McCreless Freelance Bass Trombonist Teacher Alabama bassbone_mike@alumni.jsu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 14:47:47 -0600 From: Jeff Albert Subject: Edwards stores was RE: [TBN-L] Thayer Valves Preferring rotors is cool, but how can a music store owner drop the Edwards line because of maintenance problems, when Edwards is factory direct only and does sell through stores in the US? Jeff Albert www.jeffalbert.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE- > L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael B. McCreless > Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 2:26 PM > To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU > Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Thayer Valves > > I to am not impressed with the Thayer valve, one of my students valve > casing > cracked on him. I have talked to a music store owner who dropped the > Edwards > line because of the maintenance problems he had to contend with. I just > like > the way a rotor valve works and sounds and have never found anything else > to > change my mind. Maybe it is age but rotors are a more efficient mechanism. > Michael B. McCreless > Freelance Bass Trombonist > Teacher > Alabama > bassbone_mike@alumni.jsu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 14:43:58 -0600 From: Michael Shoshani Subject: Re: My new store ("The Trombone Store") We've secretly replaced sabutin 's message with Folger's Crystals. Let's see if anyone notices: >The only limitation I am putting on it is this...I >will only stock horns and equipment that I like, stuff that I would >play if it fit my needs. *snaps finger* Darn, there goes my next King 2-B ! :-) Seriously, good luck with this venture. It's not easy getting into a retail business, but having someone knowledgable who is willing to help others out is always an asset. I suppose www.trombonestore.com is coming in the next year? Michael Shoshani Chicago, IL ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 16:20:34 -0500 From: Dale Cruse Subject: Re: My new store ("The Trombone Store") > I suppose www.trombonestore.com is coming in the next year? That URL is already owned by Brook Mays. --- Dale Cruse www.DaleCruse.com Setting you up for online success. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 15:58:00 -0600 From: Mearl Danner Subject: Re: My new store ("The Trombone Store") Which links to a page that doesn't even have the word "Trombone" on it!! Mearl Danner Systems Programmer Samford University jmdanner@samford.edu www.samford.edu > -----Original Message----- > From: Trombones and related issues forum. > [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of Dale Cruse > Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 3:21 PM > To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU > Subject: Re: [TBN-L] My new store ("The Trombone Store") > > > > I suppose www.trombonestore.com is coming in the next year? > That URL is already owned by Brook Mays. > > --- > Dale Cruse > www.DaleCruse.com > Setting you up for online success. > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 16:46:25 -0600 From: "D. Scott Moore" Subject: Re: Replacement Thayer Question Barb, Seems there are some folks who REALLY do follow manufacturer's guidelines, resulting in a satisfactory experience with Thayers for many more years than those of us who tend to let things go for a while. No surprise there! I still maintain that those of us with Edwards instruments that have seemed to lose their sparkle should think about having the factory rebuild them and seal up the holes. It was like getting a new horn. ESPECIALLY for folks are like me (and my student) and don't maintain things too well. And for those of us who have new or rebuilt valves should heed Joshua's words: > I purchased my bass in > 1992 and have never had a problem with the valves. I > do clean them on a regular basis, which probably has > something to do with them working properly a decade > later. As for your company's re-entering the valve market, I for one am happy to see this happen. I still have Ed's letter to me almost 20 years ago concerning my first purchase of a set of Thayers. Best of everything to you and Ed. It's been a long time coming. Scott PS Her valves were O. E. Thayers. Perhaps they should be replaced yours. On Wednesday, October 30, 2002, at 02:16 PM, ETHAYER wrote: > Scot, > This is quite a mystery to unravel. I gathered from your messages the > following: Please check the facts to be sure I have them straight. > The Bach 42T was purchased about seven years ago. > > Your latest 10/30/02 email said this was a custom job by a Chicago > shop, the > Brass Bow? Thayer Valve International, Ed's company, had manufactured > anodized cast aluminum rotors since 1993. So this was evidently an > "Orla Ed > Thayer" valve. These valves have been machined by the same machinist > since > 1993. It is possible to purchase an "Orla Ed Thayer" rotor to fit into > the > existing valve casing. The list price is $90. > > Bach 42Ts with anodized cast aluminum rotors were not sold by Bach > until > 1997. These were the "Orla Ed Thayer" valves manufactured by Thayer > Valve > International, Ed Thayer's company. > > The "O.E. Thayer Co." name has been used by Ed's former partner, > Jim > Nydigger, since 1986. Confusing, but factual. > > > The timeline for manufacture of anodized aluminum rotors is this: > > 1992 The first anodized cast aluminum rotor valves (rotors not a full > cone) > were tested by TVI. > 1993 Production and sales of the "Orla Ed Thayer" valves began. > > O.E. Thayer Company produced Thayer valves with rotors made of > four > brass or stainless steel pieces brazed together, machined (full > cone) > and > plated (possibly nickel plating). > > 1997 TVI sold valve units to Bach beginning in April marked as > "Orla Ed Thayer" eventually a registered trademark. > > 1998, late July, TVI was stopped from manufacturing and selling Thayer > valves. > > TVI's valves, units and tooling were stolen on November 21 1998. > > O.E. Thayer Company began selling, in February 1999, the anodized > aluminum rotor valve units, eventually to Bach. Some of these were > recognized as TVI valves and parts. > > TVI began tooling up for production after the Thayer '002 patent > expired and > became in the public domain September 4, 2001. > > TVI began selling valves and valve units in January 2002 > > This is quite a tangle, but if anyone has questions about Thayer > valves please email me with serial numbers and dates. > I will answer them to the best of my knowledge. > > Barbara Thayer > Ph. 541-563-2183 > Fax: 541-563-5806 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott Moore" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 3:41 PM > Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Replacement Thayer Question > Scott Moore Music Department Gustavus Adolphus College Saint Peter, MN 56082 (507)933-6260 smoore@gustavus.edu http://www.gustavus.edu/~smoore ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 18:06:09 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo Subject: Lebedev Concerto orch material available From time to time someone on the list asks if there is an orchestral accompaniment to the Alexi Lebedev Concerto No. 1 for bass trombone/tuba (sometimes referred to as "Concerto in One Movement"). I'm very happy to say that I've learned that there IS a full orchestra accompaniment for the piece, available on rental from its authorized publisher, Friedrich Hofmeister Verlag in Germany. The Hofmeister edition of the Lebedev Concerto No. 1 is the version I recorded on my new CD, "Two of a Mind" (I recorded it with piano). It differs in many ways from the pirated Edition Musicus edition which Allen Ostrander edited in 1960. The Lebedev Concerto No. 1 calls for an orchestra with the following instrumentation: 2222/4200/T 0P Harp Strings It is available only from Hofmeister in Germany; the good news is that they will accept credit cards for the rental, thereby eliminating bank currency transfer fees. For those interested in renting the parts, you can do so by sending an email with details of the performance date, venue, number of performances, soloist and orchestra names to: orchester@hofmeister-musikverlag.com Hofmeister will then contact you with the rental fee and details on how the score and parts can be rented. It's nice to know this piece, which has been such a standard for bass trombone players for many years, can be played with orchestra. -Doug Yeo -- Douglas Yeo Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra Music Director, The New England Brass Band dyeo@rcn.com http://www.yeodoug.com <>< ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 16:06:20 -0700 From: James Scott Subject: [Fwd: Here's Something Interesting] --------------070801030109020302050804 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Here's Something Interesting Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 14:15:08 -0700 From: James Scott To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Today's Herald: Eric Gets It! Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 08:40:01 -0700 From: "Michael Hope" To: References: <000c01c27dbd$6e8e36a0$258c9344@cg.shawcable.net> Hi All - Since the article from one of our local idiot "journalists" and the reply from my friend and colleague Gordon Cherry has received some coverage here, I thought I'd forward this article from the Editor of the Entertainment Section of the same paper from today's issue. While we do have more than our share of rednecks in this part of the world, there are also some people that recognize the need for culture in the world, and more importantly, in each of our own communities. Jim Scott Calgary Philharmonic Orchestra One empty seat at the CPO is one too many Eric Dawson Calgary Herald Wednesday, October 30, 2002 Calgary Herald Archive Will there be a rally to save the Calgary Philharmonic Orchestra? John Torode ADVERTISEMENT Click here to find out more! John Torode's timing is so good, he should be in show business. Calgary Philharmonic board chair Larry Fichtner no sooner declared a white knight would not save the faltering orchestra than the Torode Realty CEO appeared with community pride in his heart and $25,000 in his hand. He didn't arrive alone: he came backed by an army of Torode Realty salespeople who are now working to sell hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of tickets for the beleaguered orchestra. It was precisely the coup de theatre required to break the cycle of hand-wringing and doom-saying dogging the Philharmonic since it filed for bankruptcy protection and temporarily ceased business operations on Oct. 15. More than that, it was evidence the Calgary way of doing business -- boldly, against the grain of small thinking and with innovative use of existing resources -- is still in the ascendent here. Torode's action puts money in the bank and will correct a critical problem that's been eating away at the orchestra's community base for years: empty seats. One empty seat represents one less friend at the symphony, one less person to share the joy of the performance. It's not a trivial matter. If you're lucky enough to have tickets to the current sold-out run of Dracula at Theatre Calgary, you are encountering friends and sharing favourite moments of the show. The same occurred this past weekend at Jean Grand-Maitre's debut as artistic director with Alberta Ballet, at WordFest, at Calgary Opera's Don Pasquale and the Calgary International Film Festival, where crowds created buzz and generated shared enthusiasms. No matter how good the artist on the stage, it's virtually impossible to create an electric atmosphere in a half-full theatre. Torode's personal enterprise can help fill the Jack Singer again and renew the excitement of a night at the symphony, but more needs to be done. The question now is, who will be next to step up to the plate? Who else will exhibit this kind expansive thinking? Which titan of corporate Calgary will champion a $1,000-per-seat debt-elimination concert for the orchestra? (There are 1,700 seats in Jack Singer Concert Hall; the CPO's accumulated deficit stands at $1.1 million -- the math is simple and leaves money for investment in future programming.) Nothing but short works at this party, please, excepting the final piece, Saint-Saens' Symphony No. 3, to showcase the Carthy Organ and end the night on the grandest scale possible. No compact disc can offer that kind of visceral thrill or replace a civic orchestra once it's gone. Who will be among the conductors and soloists joining the event as Canada celebrates the Calgary Philharmonic? Which television network will broadcast the evening to ensure the entire country can share Calgary's pride in its world-class ensemble? I'm wishing for this, of course. Not one of Canada's leading musicians has actually stood up to propose such an event. But it takes just one star to say the CPO matters for others to join the crusade. When the debt is discharged, the real work will begin. It's one thing to pay off a debt, another to sustain a full-size symphony orchestra. The Philharmonic needs an endowment -- $25 million would be a good start. Five individuals, families or corporations could commit $1 million per year for five years, with immortality going to the most generous donor in the form of the nameplate on the auditorium of Jack Singer Concert Hall. We can always dream. The symphony needs new managerial and artistic leadership. Conductor Marin Alsop is approaching the end of her term with the Colorado Symphony; what's she doing with the rest of her life? The CPO musicians need to be seen leading the charge for their audience -- 7,300 strong, they, too, could be wielding more clout with governments and corporations than they have to date -- and for the orchestra's profile. We can all follow Torode's lead and begin to do more. The city has responded vigorously to arts crises before, to its credit. Calgarians didn't let Theatre Calgary go down the tubes when it suffered its financial crisis, and no one doubts the theatre scene has benefited from company president Tom McCabe and artistic director Ian Prinsloo's work in reshaping the company. The same is true of Alberta Theatre Projects, which has continued to function as a crucible of new play writing since returning to financial health with artistic director Bob White at the helm. The Calgary Philharmonic can enjoy its time in the sun again, too. But it will only happen if the public marshals the will to sustain the orchestra and if its new leaders reinvent it as the standard-bearer of everything that's best in popular culture, which includes the classics. Our work as a community begins right now. Eric Dawson is the Herald's Arts & Style editor dawsone@theherald.southam.ca --------------070801030109020302050804-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 19:08:46 -0600 From: "Michael B. McCreless" Subject: Edwards mistake Thanks for pointing that out to me I meant to say thayer equiped horns. specificaly used. Sorry Michael ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 17:34:49 -0800 From: Gabriel Langfur Subject: Re: Thayer valves --- bassboneman@YAHOO.COM wrote: > I disagree with the concept of the "seven-year life > span" of the Edwards Thayers. Or any thayers for that matter. Granted, there have been some problems with the coated aluminum ones, where the coating never adhered properly. But mine corroded just a tiny bit right at the beginning at a couple of the sharp corners on the valve, and since then regular cleaning and oiling has prevented any further problems. I can't tell you how often I pick up another player's horn just to feel how the valves move and discover them sluggish. People think that's just the way thayer valves are, and they're wrong. Steve Shires (if I have an affiliation it's with him) suggests that we oil thayer valves as often as trumpet players oil their piston valves - meaning roughly once a day, if not more often. Every repair tech I've ever talked to has said that most people on every brass instrument don't use enough oil to properly prevent corrosion inside the instrument. Steve's specific suggestion is to oil the valves AFTER a rehearsal or peformance, particularly if it was a lot of playing. It's like brushong your teeth after every meal to prevent tooth and gum disease. You also avoid the problem of oil dripping into the slide and gumming it up. Thayer valves are not a perfect design, but they're still the most open valve available. That's not what every player wants or needs, but it's a unique and excellent option. I may still switch to one of the improved rotary valve designs, but I know that when I'm at the top of my game my thayer valves work great for me. Gabe __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 20:18:49 -0800 From: Larry White Subject: Re: My new store ("The Trombone Store") Good for you! Hope you have much success! Larry sabutin wrote: > OK, rumours are beginning to pop up here and there...I've been > getting phone calls, emails...so here's the scoop. > > Yes, I am opening a by appointment only store dedicated > exclusively to trombones in New York City...Riverdale, actually, a > great neighborhood about 20 minutes north midtown by subway or car, > lots of parking, only a few blocks from the IRT #1 subway line. > > I'm calling it "The Trombone Store". > > It somehow has always seemed wrong to me that there is no high-end > brass store in NYC proper, and although I don't have the resources, > time or knowledge to start a general brass store, I think I've got > enough to pull this trombones only idea off. A nice space came open > last month directly below where I live in Riverdale, and I have > leased it. > > I am still in the process of contacting various makers, but there > will be some great high end horn lines there, plus lots of used > instruments of the very best quality, new and used m'pces, mutes, > cases...the works. The only limitation I am putting on it is this...I > will only stock horns and equipment that I like, stuff that I would > play if it fit my needs. I am also going to use the space as a > teaching and rehearsal/practice studio. > > It will not be open until at least mid-November, and probably not > fully stocked until even later. I've never done anything like this > before, so I can't really predict how complicated this project will > be. > > I am in the process of accumulating a very interesting stock of > used instruments, and have connected w/several people in the NY area > who among them own well over 300 older, fine horns as well, and well > continue doing custom searches for used horns tailored to meet > individual players' requirements also. > > There will be a website, of course...again, mid-November at the > earliest...and all the trimmings. I'm going into this project whole > hog plus postage, limited only by available funds, time and space. > > Anyway...that's what's happening...save your emails + phone calls. > I'll let you know when things are up and running. > > Later... > > Sam Burtis ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 22:33:46 -0600 From: "D.J. Kennedy" Subject: conn 79h up for grabs !!! hey listers -it doesnt have a thayer but it works anyway - story is i found this horn for a kid -i need a bigger horn --bla bla bach 36 no no ---bigger than a 3b -- ????????// --duh its too big cries goldilocks !!!!!!!!!!!!!! 800bucks shipped ---1967 -orig laq and case - i got pics if ur interested ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 00:04:43 EST From: AIREV@AOL.COM Subject: New Tenor & Bass Solos Released Hello everyone, We are pleased to announce the release of two new works by Norman Bolter: "Morning Walk," for tenor trombone and piano, and "Sagittarius2," for bass trombone and piano, both commissioned by the Zellmer-Minnesota Orchestra Trombone Competition. For more information about these exciting new pieces, including how to order, please visit: http://www.air-ev.com/catalogue.html Click Sheet Music in the side bar. These works are listed alphabetically under Trombone Solos. Also, to hear MP3 sound samples of the premiere recordings of these works (appearing on the new Bolter CD, "Occurrences," due to be released in early November), please visit: http://www.air-ev.com/recordings.html Scroll down to the "Occurrences" CD, listed alphabetically on that page. There you will find MP3 samples of these and 7 other premiere recordings of Norman Bolter's works; (this 'all trombone' CD has crossover appeal and features trombonists Norman Bolter, Darren Acosta, Mark Cantrell, John Faieta, Jim Nova, Douglas Wright and Douglas Yeo. Pianist John Ferguson is accompanist on the Zellmer pieces). All the best, Carol Viera ************************************************** Carol Viera, Ph.D. Owner, Air-ev Productions (R) Co-Director, Frequency Band (R) Endeavour E-mail: airev@aol.com/ Website: www.air-ev.com/ ************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 23:52:50 -0600 From: "D.J. Kennedy" Subject: sold 79 gary greenhoe made first committment !!!!!! even though it doesnt have a thayer thanks dj ------------------------------ End of TROMBONE-L Digest - 29 Oct 2002 to 30 Oct 2002 (#2002-109) *****************************************************************