Subject: TROMBONE-L Digest - 26 Oct 2002 to 27 Oct 2002 (#2002-106) There are 16 messages totalling 649 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. "German" bass trb on eBay (4) 2. Trombone Day in the SF Bay Area 10/26/02 Saturday 3. "German" bass trb/Conn 90G trombonium (2) 4. Jingle Bones 2002 5. this thing keeps coming back 6. Interchangable Conn Parts (2) 7. Trombone-L Subscription Maintenance Online 8. bass trombone case (4) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 13:40:19 -0500 From: Jerry Lapham Subject: "German" bass trb on eBay A friend asked me today to try out a "German" bass trombone he bought for his son on eBay during his 3-day trial period when it arrives. I seem to recall some discussion of "German design" trombones made in China or India of "Parrot" quality. What should I look out for? -Jerry -- ============================================================ Jerry Lapham, Monroe, OH E-Mail: rjlapham@infinet.com Written Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 01:40 PM (EDT) ============================================================ MR/2 Ice tag: No more sick days? Call in dead. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 13:46:40 -0700 From: David Oliver Subject: Re: "German" bass trb on eBay It does look to be a China made trombone if the seller was "german-instruments". The horn and case have the right look. He has a fair amount of negatives from folks not receiving instruments, or from the intruments being of poor quality. 25% of his feedback in the last 7 days is negative or neutral! The only thing "German" seems to be the ID of the seller. He's also letting people buy those single valve bass trombones for $200, which is less than a new student .500 horn. Another give away is a recent reference to the dock strike on the west coast by someone leaving a comment. From my job, I know that imports from China and other southeast asian countries are being delayed by this. A decent quality new US made double rotor bass trombone like a TR-181 is going to run around $1800, and that is on the low end. I've heard very good things about Getzen basses, which retail for slightly less than the Holton. The Yamaha's are usually great horns (and consistent), but will run more. BTW, I've been bidding on a couple of horns lately. I think I may need deprogramming! I'm over the shock of buying the house after two years I guess. I did end up with an "Elkhart" Conn 90G recently, but it was after the fact as I was closest to the reserve. It looks to be Conn's "trombonium". Anybody have experience with this horn? I was going bring it the next Tuba Christmas here in Denver. I should get it in a week or two. Being able to play euph. I thought what the heck - something else to add to the collection. David Oliver Broomfield, CO USA Jerry Lapham wrote: > A friend asked me today to try out a "German" bass trombone he bought for > his son on eBay during his 3-day trial period when it arrives. I seem to > recall some discussion of "German design" trombones made in China or India > of "Parrot" quality. What should I look out for? > > -Jerry > -- > ============================================================ > Jerry Lapham, Monroe, OH > E-Mail: rjlapham@infinet.com > Written Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 01:40 PM (EDT) > ============================================================ > MR/2 Ice tag: No more sick days? Call in dead. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 16:12:37 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee Subject: Re: "German" bass trb on eBay At 01:46 PM 10/27/2002 -0700, David Oliver wrote: >I did end up with an "Elkhart" Conn 90G recently, but it was after the fact as >I was closest to the reserve. It looks to be Conn's "trombonium". Anybody have >experience with this horn? I was going bring it the next Tuba Christmas here >in Denver. I should get it in a week or two. Being able to play euph. I >thought what the heck - something else to add to the collection. Of al the valve trombones I've tried, this is the only one I'd play in public with some serious concerns -- in fact I played a gig with one of those about a month ago. As a 547 horn, it blows more freely than most valve trombones, and it also puts out a decent volume of sound. Being 547 with valves, it has a very euphonium-like sound when using most mouthpieces. I ended up going with quite a bright mouthpiece to bring it back around to a trombone sound. I' never thought about taking it to Tuba Christmas. I wonder if they would throw me out or just laugh at me. Cheers, Craig ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 21:26:20 +0000 From: Daniel Pliskin Subject: Re: Trombone Day in the SF Bay Area 10/26/02 Saturday Trombone Day, Hayward First off, I’d like to thank Dean Hubbard for letting us know about Trombone Day, at Hayward State. I had a fascinating day. As y’all know, I had some serious questions about whether my trombone was responsible for the difficulties I was having playing second partials with the F-attachment engaged. One thing I’ve realized, just in the last few days, is that I can play those notes OK, but only with an embouchure that I considered unacceptable…lots of bottom lip. I’ve since grown to accept that embouchure, until I find a better one. But I still went to Trombone Day, determined to try a bunch of trombones, just to see what a change of instrument would do for me. I found that there are some great trombones out there and that my 607-F is good enough for me. But besides playing a bunch of trombones, the events were fascinating. The San Francisco Opera Orchestra Low Brass Section was there and played opera excerpts. They were amazing, but what totally blew my mind was hearing Mac Kenley (SF Opera first chair trombone) warm up. He could probably play an octave higher than Tom "Bones" Malone and on orchestral equipment. Then came a master class conducted by David Ridge (SF Opera Bass trombone). David stressed making sure that what comes out of your horn sounds musical. It’s not about making sure you take a breath before that low Eb. It’s about making sure that the phrase makes sense, musically. Tom "Bones" Malone (David Letterman Show, the Blues Brothers and countless recordings) was next. He can play beautifully, but seems to prefer to play stuff that’s so fast that one can’t discern what notes he played. It was a pretty good lesson for me. I can stop trying to impress people with my doodle-tonguing, now, and start working on intonation, timing and slide vibrato. More on slide vibrato later. Malone played with the Hayward State Jazz band. The band was quite good. Then came Billy Robinson and the Bay Bones, a massive trombone ensemble. They were pretty good too. Art Sares (NBC orchestra, among other things) was amazing. I wish I had heard more of his stories and more of his playing. I said I’d get back to talking about slide vibrato, so here goes. Art has an amazing slide vibrato. He doesn’t play fast. He doesn’t play loud. But he sure plays sweet. What a pleasure listening to him. What Art said, which was news to me, was that the softer you play, the narrower the vibrato. The louder you play the wider the vibrato. I went back to trying horns, while an even more massive collection of trombone players collected to run through some charts. Thanks Dean. I've got lots to practice, now. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 14:36:58 -0700 From: David Oliver Subject: Re: "German" bass trb/Conn 90G trombonium I wondered the same thing, Craig, but Bill Clark (the TC organizer here) likes to point out the more "oddball" pieces before the playing starts. I actually asked the same "will they throw me out" question of a local euph. player and trombone doubler. Maybe I could wear a civil war outfit too? Would they know the difference? ;) The 90G apparently has an 88H bell, although the whole thing is nickel-silver plated. It's got the classic "Elkhart" engraving on the bell. I'll keep the mouthpiece advice in mind (I have plenty). David Oliver Craig Parmerlee wrote: > At 01:46 PM 10/27/2002 -0700, David Oliver wrote: > >I did end up with an "Elkhart" Conn 90G recently, but it was after the fact as > >I was closest to the reserve. It looks to be Conn's "trombonium". Anybody have > >experience with this horn? I was going bring it the next Tuba Christmas here > >in Denver. I should get it in a week or two. Being able to play euph. I > >thought what the heck - something else to add to the collection. > > Of al the valve trombones I've tried, this is the only one I'd play in > public with some serious concerns -- in fact I played a gig with one of > those about a month ago. As a 547 horn, it blows more freely than most > valve trombones, and it also puts out a decent volume of sound. Being 547 > with valves, it has a very euphonium-like sound when using most > mouthpieces. I ended up going with quite a bright mouthpiece to bring it > back around to a trombone sound. > > I' never thought about taking it to Tuba Christmas. I wonder if they would > throw me out or just laugh at me. > > Cheers, > Craig ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 18:07:50 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee Subject: Re: "German" bass trb/Conn 90G trombonium Aaaaack, I meant "without serious concerns". I really like the way the 90G plays. Intonation is not bad. Plenty of sound, Not too hard to articulate. The only drawback I see is that the sound is rather dense, but a shallow mouthpiece can clean that up. I think I saw that eBay listing for your instrument. It looked to be in fine shape. I think you will be very happy with it. That bell section is really comical. It is indeed a right-off-the-shelf 8H bell section complete with tuning slide -- although there is another whole-horn tuning slide on the valve section too. Conn didn't even bother removing the nut that normally connects to the slide. They just soldered it in place and nickel plated the whole thing!? Nothing but the best for the marching band industry, I guess. :) Later, CP At 02:36 PM 10/27/2002 -0700, David Oliver wrote: >I wondered the same thing, Craig, but Bill Clark (the TC organizer here) >likes to >point out the more "oddball" pieces before the playing starts. I actually >asked the >same "will they throw me out" question of a local euph. player and trombone >doubler. Maybe I could wear a civil war outfit too? Would they know the >difference? >;) > >The 90G apparently has an 88H bell, although the whole thing is nickel-silver >plated. It's got the classic "Elkhart" engraving on the bell. > >I'll keep the mouthpiece advice in mind (I have plenty). > >David Oliver > >Craig Parmerlee wrote: > > > At 01:46 PM 10/27/2002 -0700, David Oliver wrote: > > >I did end up with an "Elkhart" Conn 90G recently, but it was after the > fact as > > >I was closest to the reserve. It looks to be Conn's "trombonium". > Anybody have > > >experience with this horn? I was going bring it the next Tuba > Christmas here > > >in Denver. I should get it in a week or two. Being able to play euph. I > > >thought what the heck - something else to add to the collection. > > > > Of al the valve trombones I've tried, this is the only one I'd play in > > public with some serious concerns -- in fact I played a gig with one of > > those about a month ago. As a 547 horn, it blows more freely than most > > valve trombones, and it also puts out a decent volume of sound. Being 547 > > with valves, it has a very euphonium-like sound when using most > > mouthpieces. I ended up going with quite a bright mouthpiece to bring it > > back around to a trombone sound. > > > > I' never thought about taking it to Tuba Christmas. I wonder if they would > > throw me out or just laugh at me. > > > > Cheers, > > Craig ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 18:12:06 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee Subject: Jingle Bones 2002 On Saturday December 14, we're having the 5th annual Jingle Bones concert in Indianapolis. For details, see http://acticalc.com/jinglebones/ All players are welcome, and admission is free. Can't make it to Indianapolis? Well, it isn't too late to hold your own Jingle Bones event. Write me if you want any suggestions for organizing such an event. In trombonistry, Craig ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 15:27:25 -0800 From: Gabriel Langfur Subject: this thing keeps coming back Here's something that's bothered me off & on for years... Whenever I start my playing day really early, without quite enough time to warm up the way I'd like to, I break out in a painful zit in exactly the same place above my upper lip. Usually it's not bad enough to affect what comes out the horn, and it usually goes away quickly (unless I have several days in a row like that), but it's certainly irritating. Does this happen to anyone else? Does anyone have any ways they prevent it? I used to think goldplating my mouthpiece helped, but it didn't, really. I wash my mouthpiece before I play every day (except when that's impossible), and the same thing happens anyway, so I know it's not that. I probably do use more pressure when I play without my normal warmup, and furthermore, when I have a day like this, it's usually because I'm playing at a church service, where I sit and get cold and then play, several times. I think my mouthpiece placement is also a little bit less stable when I have to play without much warmup, so maybe the extra motion of metal across my skin causes the irritation. Any ideas? Gabe __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 16:33:03 -0800 From: Elisabeth Frederick Subject: Interchangable Conn Parts Hello List, I have a bell section at home that is a Conn 4H. On ebay someone is selling one that fits a 6H, are those the same size?? Thanks!! Elisabeth ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 18:31:28 -0600 From: Chris Waage Subject: Re: "German" bass trb on eBay Preface: I'm a bit of a grouch today, so there's probably a bit more vinegar in this post than necessary. Also, most of this post is purely opinion, but based upon four years on eBay and quite a bit of research. I have sold several instruments on eBay, and I work quite hard to make sure that the description gives a "warts and all" view of the instrument to the potential seller. Point 1: Most instruments sell on eBay for more than they're worth. The purchase on eBay is usually based upon cosmetics, and as anyone with half a brain and a little experience knows, cosmetics do not make an instrument play well. The new shiny piece of junk from China, even though it's called Haydn, or Parrot, or Lark, or Monique, or whatever pseudo-legitimate name they can find, is still junk. Point 2: Most of the sellers on eBay selling Haydn/Parrot/Monique/Lark instruments are out for a fast buck. They don't care about quality, customer service or the fact that a pawn shop Conn Director is probably a better instrument. They're slime ripping off people. Point 3: Most of the sellers on eBay selling the Chinese-made instruments have probably been removed several times. I have never seen one with a feedback profile over 100, and usually they all have about 25% negatives based on either poor customer service or poor quality. Point 4: eBay is the cyber-incarnation of "caveat emptor." Do your research, learn about what you're buying before you bid. I hate seeing people get caught up in the bidding for something and then end up paying far too much for something. If it says "RARE!" "OUT OF PRINT" or any other exclamatory that might excite the mind to think that "Wow! This is a find!", do your research. I once saw someone pay $35 for a copy of the Tommy Pederson Duets for Tenor and Bass Trombone which was "OUT OF PRINT!! RARE!!". It can be bought (and is still in print) for $12.95. PT Barnum was quoted as saying, "There's a sucker born every minute." If he were around today, he'd love eBay. OK-after all this rant, I haven't actually answered the question. What to look for: 1. Is the leadpipe hole drilled? I've seen Parrots with a solid (read "UNPLAYABLE") piece where the leadpipe was supposed to be. 2. Use care if you touch the ends of the inner slide. They're usually band-sawed and unfinshed, which means if you touch them, you'll need some band-aids - they're sharp. 3. If it can be played, it will probably be quite flat or quite sharp, and the partials will be badly out of tune. Look for the tuning Bb (top of the staff, bass clef) to be nearly a quarter-tone flat compared to the low Bb. 4. The spring on the water key (if it has one) will probably be very cheap, and will break fairly soon. 5. The threads on the bell receiver will be soft, and probably strip quite easily. 6. The rotor will not line up properly, and will be quite stuffy. 7. The case will be slightly better than cardboard, but not much. Don't get it wet. OK - I'm cynical. Chris >A friend asked me today to try out a "German" bass trombone he bought for >his son on eBay during his 3-day trial period when it arrives. I seem to >recall some discussion of "German design" trombones made in China or India >of "Parrot" quality. What should I look out for? > > -Jerry >-- >============================================================ >Jerry Lapham, Monroe, OH >E-Mail: rjlapham@infinet.com >Written Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 01:40 PM (EDT) >============================================================ >MR/2 Ice tag: No more sick days? Call in dead. -- ________________________________________________ Chris Waage, Associate Webmaster chris@trombone.org http://www.trombone.org - A web site for trombonists ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 19:58:37 -0600 From: Listmonitor Trombone-L Subject: Trombone-L Subscription Maintenance Online List members: You can now maintain your trombone-l subscription through a web interface. Visit http://po.missouri.edu/cgi-bin/wa You will have to register using the e-mail address which is subscribed to the trombone-l, and you will then be able to change your preferences (receive mail, postpone mail, switch from individual messages to digest, etc.) from any computer with Internet access and a web browser. Becaue of some changes in my personal life, I am often away from the computer for several days at a time. Due to this, requests sent to me may take a day or two to process. Please take a moment or two to register at http://po.missouri.edu/cgi-bin/wa LM ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 20:24:04 -0800 From: "James W. Yardley" Subject: bass trombone case Hello everyone. In my never ending search for a reliable bass trombone case, I came across the website of Accord Music Supply & Co. (www.accordcase.com). Their trombone case looks really nice and it looks as if you can have a case fitted to your horn. I'm looking for something that would be safe to check on an airplane if I needed to. Does anyone out there own one of these cases that might be able to attest to their durability and protection? Any help would be great. Thanks. Take care, James Yardley www.clearwaterbrass.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 23:35:27 EST From: Sldtbn@AOL.COM Subject: Re: bass trombone case If you want to be able to check it, I would just have an Anvil case custom made to fit your gig bag and accessories. Be sure to have it built with wheels and a retractable handle. It works for me. This way I can have the ease of my gig bag when I get to where I am traveling, and have the protection I need and want while checking the instrument. And yes, it is within baggage requirements. My particular trunk is within size and weight restrictions where I do not have to pay extra, even fully loaded (its just barely under 70 lbs.). Check it out, they are on the net somewhere, I ran across them doing a search for "cases." Tom ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 23:36:29 -0500 From: Eric & Candice Swanson Subject: Re: Interchangable Conn Parts Elisabeth Frederick wrote: > I have a bell section at home that is a Conn 4H. On ebay someone is selling > one that fits a 6H, are those the same size?? > All the Conn small bore horns should have the same receivers on them. Eric Swanson ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 20:42:08 -0800 From: bassboneman@YAHOO.COM Subject: Re: bass trombone case You might want to take a look at Walt Johnson Cases, as well: http://www.johnsoncases.com/ Josh --- Sldtbn@AOL.COM wrote: > If you want to be able to check it, I would just > have an Anvil case custom > made to fit your gig bag and accessories. Be sure > to have it built with > wheels and a retractable handle. It works for me. > This way I can have the > ease of my gig bag when I get to where I am > traveling, and have the > protection I need and want while checking the > instrument. And yes, it is > within baggage requirements. My particular trunk is > within size and weight > restrictions where I do not have to pay extra, even > fully loaded (its just > barely under 70 lbs.). Check it out, they are on > the net somewhere, I ran > across them doing a search for "cases." > > Tom __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 22:54:44 -0600 From: Phil Brink Subject: Re: bass trombone case I second that - my Johnson case is terrific! -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU]On Behalf Of bassboneman@YAHOO.COM Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 10:42 PM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Re: [TBN-L] bass trombone case You might want to take a look at Walt Johnson Cases, as well: http://www.johnsoncases.com/ Josh --- Sldtbn@AOL.COM wrote: > If you want to be able to check it, I would just > have an Anvil case custom > made to fit your gig bag and accessories. Be sure > to have it built with > wheels and a retractable handle. It works for me. > This way I can have the > ease of my gig bag when I get to where I am > traveling, and have the > protection I need and want while checking the > instrument. And yes, it is > within baggage requirements. My particular trunk is > within size and weight > restrictions where I do not have to pay extra, even > fully loaded (its just > barely under 70 lbs.). Check it out, they are on > the net somewhere, I ran > across them doing a search for "cases." > > Tom __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of TROMBONE-L Digest - 26 Oct 2002 to 27 Oct 2002 (#2002-106) *****************************************************************