Subject: TROMBONE-L Digest - 27 Aug 2002 to 28 Aug 2002 (#2002-46) There are 43 messages totalling 1729 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. How jazz got its groove back (4) 2. in front of the TV (2) 3. the value of instruction 4. Humes & Berg Case Question 5. Wright/Minnesota New$ 6. Minnesota orchestra 7. [TL]How jazz got its groove back (3) 8. When The Saints! 9. Trombone without a country (9) 10. Check out IHT: How jazz got its groove back (7) 11. Buzzing, why I don't think its the valve (2) 12. Coltrane/bebop/Jazz 13. Bach 50B with Mt. Vernon bell and slide for sale 14. 3rd Redeeming Brass Workshop, November 15th-17th 15. Items for sale (bell, gig bag, mpcs, etc.) 16. trombone tuned in C or Bes (A very little bit confused) (5) 17. 21 Trombones 18. [Fwd: cohen center jazz orchestra ------]popeye picnic chester illinois ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 16:25:13 +0900 From: Joseph Green Subject: How jazz got its groove back For another perspective on a topic sometimes discussed here, read this www.iht.com/articles/68995.htm and then take the quiz: How many trombonists does the article mention? I counted one. ++++++++++++++ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 08:55:53 +0100 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: in front of the TV From: "Daniel Pliskin" > I used to read, while playing oboe and English horn, but I haven't figured > out how to do that, while playing trombone. No problem Dan. Replace the mouthpiece with a double reed and drill some finger holes along the slide, then you will be able to get back to your favourite book. You will also go down in history alongside such famous names as Richard Wagner, Adolphe Sax and Stan Kenton as the inventor of the Sarrusobone. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 04:06:06 EDT From: SteveInside@AOL.COM Subject: Re: the value of instruction In a message dated 27/08/02 17:34:03 GMT Daylight Time,=20 sgamble@tucsonsymphony.org writes: > So, I guess I'm trying to say that > students, if there is any future for them as musicians, need to look at > making a success of the student-teacher relationship they find themselves > in by placing most of the responsibility for that success on themselves. >=20 I completely agree =E2=80=94 with pretty much everything you say. Your idea= s bring a=20 sharp light onto one of the points that most trouble me with the issue of=20 teaching. Most promising musicians show their promise when they are young. And at say= ,=20 13 or 14, I feel it is much harder for a student to resist the dogmatic=20 aspects of a teacher's position than it would be when they are, say 20 or 25= .=20 I feel that quite possibly, a number of potentially good players fall down=20 that particular hole. No malice, lots of good intention, but 'this is the=20 only way to play'. So at this point, they are most easily taught, most=20 easily damaged, and most easily misled. Harder to be truly responsible, in=20 the 'being your own person' way, when you are accustomed to doing as you are= =20 told. And maybe it just isn't like that anymore. Best wishes, Steve ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 22:36:40 -0400 From: Randy Campora Subject: Humes & Berg Case Question Does anybody know anything about the Galaxy bass trombone cases made by Humes & Berg? These look like pro-tec type cases, they make two sizes I think. Anyone know which size would accommodate a 9.5" bell with two Thayer valves? Anyone have any experience with these cases? I believe they also make two tenor sizes. Please advise, ~Randy Campora ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 05:57:58 EDT From: SteveInside@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Wright/Minnesota New$ In a message dated 27/08/02 18:27:53 GMT Daylight Time, eplukas@BIGFOOT.COM writes: > I ALWAYS heard ......... Symphony > performances by dressing in a suit and > entering through the kitchen entrance. > On occasion it helps to carry an > empty musical instrument case! If one is > dressed suitably, one can also > munch on the hors d'ouvres after the > performance. If you don't want to > eat, wear overalls and carry a beatup > tool box. > ================================ And now I REALLY want to know how you get on! Please let us know. Steve C ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 07:54:16 -0400 From: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL Subject: Minnesota orchestra Scott writes, End of Scott> Of course subbing with a top notch orchestra is a dream job for some of us! In fact, this may be heresy, but even if I were good enough, being a full time symphony player is not my idea of a dream job. I like being an engineer and I like being an avocational musician, I think I have the best of both worlds. Those occasional subs we get where we step up a level are definite high points, though. Now, the chance to play next to Mr. Wright would be incredible. He is just amazing, I'm sorry I can't get to Minneapolis a day early to hear him play the concerto. He has that very focused tone and I think the cleanest articulation out there - where some of us play footballs and some bricks, he plays gage blocks. But if the Eau Claire lister can't sneak in "ala Paul," come to Harriet Island the next day and say hi. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 07:35:27 -0700 From: Galen Zinn Subject: Re: [TL]How jazz got its groove back On 8/28/02 12:25 AM, Joseph Green wrote: > For another perspective on a topic sometimes discussed here, read this > > www.iht.com/articles/68995.htm > > and then take the quiz: How many trombonists does the article mention? I > counted one. > > ++++++++++++++ So Mike Zwerlin thinks jazz is alive and well outside the U.S. (New York City). I overheard a conversation between a couple of sidemen recently at a big band rehearsal in which the general idea discussed was that kids coming up on the West Coast are fabulous jazz sight readers but can't improvise, and conversely kids coming up on the East Coast are great improvisers but can't sight read. Has anyone else noticed anything in various parts of the U.S. that would support this phenomenon? I've noticed the lack of interest in jazz (if you measure it by the number of seats filled) at the Chronicle Pavilion this summer. The Concord Pavilion (as it used to be called before big money came in and took it over) was built by the efforts of jazz musicians and supported by jazz enthusiasts. It is the birthplace of Concord Jazz. The Pavilion can now hold an audience of more than 12,000 people. The highest gate for jazz this summer has been between 2,000 - 3,000 people, maybe slightly higher for a two day jazz festival. Country and Rock groups usually fill the Pavilion. So what is the answer? Why are talented jazz musicians not capable of filling the Pavilion? The Mike Vax big band is staffed with phenomenally talented musicians but they depend to a considerable extent upon philanthropic support. I get regular periodic brochures from them asking for donations. Can we say that jazz has lost its audience? Just my 3¢ worth, Galen Zinn grzinn@ca.astound.net Check out my trombone apparel and other treasures at: http://www.cafeshops.com/stonestbones ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 07:57:30 -0700 From: John & Rossana Cather Subject: Re: When The Saints! Erik, This tune, being a dixieland tune, I think is best played without arrangement. If you haven't done this before, this is the perfect piece to get started on. Play the melody through once. Then repeat it, except change it. Change some of the notes, and change some quarter notes to double eighth notes. Repeat it again, but let the piano player play it through, jazzing it up. And maybe improvise some backup to help the piano. Repeat it several times, and jazz it up more each time. And if you want/can, on the last time transpose it up from key of F to G. This raises the energy dramatically. You need the changes for the piano to play by. And you should be able to memorize the melody by listening to it. I can send you the changes if you can't find them. You should try to listen to several dixieland recordings of this tune and others. Listen to them many times. Then try to imitate how they play it. Not note for note, but get the feel for the style of playing and jazzing it up. This can be tremendous fun for you and the audience. This is some of the happiest music ever created. I hope you do it this way, and I'll bet that's how your father would want it too. John Cather Original message: >Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 09:03:27 -0500 >From: "Berggren, Erik" >Subject: When The Saints! > >Hey All! > >My father has recently voiced his desire of having me play "When The Saints, >Go Marching In" at his funeral. We are celebrating his 80th birthday this >weekend, but the date of his funeral isn't readily available! :-) :-) Do >any of you have recommendations regarding an arrangement for solo tenor >trombone and piano perhaps? > >Erik B. - AAA >(Always An Amateur) > >P.S. - The smiley faces remind me to thank all of you for your comments and >suggestions on smiling while playing. Now I just have to commit the >comments to my practice routine! And the Phil Teele concept sounds like a >must as well! So much info.....so little time! :-| Thanks again! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 15:21:22 +0000 From: alan partis Subject: Re: How jazz got its groove back While my sister-in-law maintains that I am an elitist, I maintain that jazz music is more complex than 'pop' music and therefore appeals to a more intellectual audiance. Therefore, wouldn't it be fair to conclude that the demise of the popularity of jazz is tied to the general 'dumbing down' of our society? By becoming a large population of lazy slobs getting more and more used to having everything given to us, our music and 'culture' is disappearing behind a shower of fast food, video games, and TV. Until the underlying intelligence of our society takes an upturn, the jazz landscape will continue to be bleak. ______________________________________ alan partis, amateur bonehead louisville, ky ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 11:23:12 EDT From: SteveInside@AOL.COM Subject: Re: [TL]How jazz got its groove back In a message dated 28/08/02 15:38:33 GMT Daylight Time, grzinn@CA.ASTOUND.NE= T=20 writes: > I get > regular periodic brochures from them asking for donations. Can we say that > jazz has lost its audience? >=20 I don't think this is restricted to jazz. Classical concerts are empty a lo= t=20 of the time too and they rely on public sponsorship and increasingly,=20 corporate too. We have a radio station here (London) called Jazz FM. When it launched it=20 did try to play jazz but quickly found no audience and no advertisers. Then= =20 it relaunched and plays the same stuff as our BBC Radio2 - I suppose you=20 could say it's up the swingy end of pop, with maybe two jazz programmes a=20 week. When I talk to friends that love music of all kinds but can't find their way= =20 into jazz, they say stuff like: no tune, can't understand it. Maybe jazz di= d=20 get a bit intellectual at one point. Y'know, bebop was/is pretty demanding=20 in that respect. And then there was Coltrane. Despite his magnificence, it= =20 did get a bit silly there for a while. Searching to be taken 'seriously'=20 maybe left the easy stuff for rock and roll, R&B, soul, Motown etc. One of the things I think of when I think of the jazz I first got excited=20 about is that it was accessible and it held on to the more tribal aspects of= =20 the genre. Now those tribal things seem to have been taken by others =E2= =80=94 most=20 notably rock. I think Afro Cuban music has it in spades =E2=80=94 but that'= s not=20 exactly mainstream either. So, yes, maybe jazz has lost an audience it once had. Most people I know like music but not many of them care very much about it.=20= =20 There are some people I know that like their music to be difficult, but most= =20 just don't want to have to work too hard at it. Just a few random thoughts Steve C ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 10:24:56 -0500 From: Wayne Dyess Subject: Re: Trombone without a country I beg to differ with Rod on this one. Just last night, our big band played to a packed house and folks seem to love it. Ours is fully instrumented big band with female vocalist. 5 saxes, 4 bones, 4 trpts, 4 rhythm, vocal. The "house" seats only about 300, but there must have been closer to 500 there. In Texas, at least, bands are starting as many beginners as they were 25 years ago when I was teaching public school. Perhaps even more... Music is alive and well. Fear not. Wayne Dyess On Monday, August 26, 2002, at 03:51 PM, Rod Ellard wrote: > Pretty poor argument and an inane reference to Glenn Miller, but the > conclusion seems accurate enough. > > My observation, however, is that music generally seems to be losing its > attraction. Mind you, this observation is based simply on the very few > young people I see carrying musical instruments around and the lack of > anyone under the age of 30 in most of the bands and orchestras I've > played > in the past few years. There used to be garage bands on every block. I > haven't heard one for years. > > > Rod > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 11:31:20 -0400 From: sabutin Subject: Re: Check out IHT: How jazz got its groove back Yup... "Jazz" is alive and well everywhere, actually. Everywhere except where MBNA (Mighty Big Nasty Associations, Multinational Bottomline Necrophiliac Asskissers...make up your own) has gotten its shortsighted, greedy, fearful little hands on it. It's alive in small clubs all over America, in the aspirations of thousands of players, in countries across the globe. "Provincial" is exactly the right word for the New York-centric middlemen who both run and perform for the Military/Industrial/Academic complex. They can't see past their own noses nor hear past their own ears. Wynton included. I see the impact of real jazz on audiences every week...it's alive. In fact, it's SO alive it scares the suits to death. I don't believe many of them are conscious of it, but THAT'S the real "bottom line". They'd rather sell out of tune garage bands, the empty posturing of drug addled rappers, sad Broadway musicals about the old days, light jazz played w/almost no disturbance of the surrounding air (no sound) through a microphone, digitized directly into earphone wearing heads and the be-suited middleman jazz revivalists than even CONSIDER what Elvin Jones really has to say, no matter that his mere presence can electrify an audience of thousands. Ditto any number of jazz idioms that refuse to be civilized to death. Too dangerous to the lull-them-to-sleep control mechanism that is so firmly in place in most of the "developed" world. Instead of "Let them eat cake" the rallying cry of big business has become "Let them eat fake." Fake food, fake music, fake elections, fake news, fake wars, fake illnesses, fake cures... Wake up and smell the coffee, or fake up and smell the instant caffeine containing product. Here's an amusing little third world vignette: Last time I was in Mexico City, I was waiting for a plane at the airport and had some time to kill, There was a sort of food court...not like here, all multinational fast food, but 8 or 10 small shops. I ordered something...it was pretty good, too...and then thought I'd have a cup of coffee. There was a shop called "Senor Cafe", and it had a long list of fancy coffee drinks, a la Starbucks...latte, espresso, etc. There was one on the list called "Cafe Americano" and since I usually drink straight, strong coffee, I figured that was the one and ordered it. The lady behind the counter turned, went past the various machines she had...grinders, espresso + cafe con leche machines and so on...to the back of the store, where she poured something into a cup. Then she walked forward, took a jar of Nescafe out from under the bar, put a teaspoon of it in the cup...which was hot water, I finally realized...and smilingly proffered it to me. "Uno Cafe Americano, senor." I was laughing so hard I couldn't summon the Spanish to explain to her what I had really wanted, so I just paid for the coffee and walked away. These fools are ALL trying to sell diluted and stale Cafe Americano Jazz to the world, and the world ain't buying it. They COULD sell stronger stuff...hell, if they can sell Nescafe, McDonalds, President Butch, the "Gulf War" and Dave Koz they can sell ANYTHING...but they won't. Why? Because it scares them on a cellular level. It is as threatening to them as a loose pit bull running in the park while they're out doing their power walk. They will only deal w/small, well manicured poodles and overbred cocker spaniels that are all bark and no bite. But...as Mike Zwerin points out, in less regimented parts of the world...places where most people laughed at the Florida election farce because they are not quite so media-washed as most of America...this act doesn't go over so well. Fetch, Spike. GRRRRRRRRRR....... S. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 12:12:34 EDT From: BJMCHAFFIE@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Trombone without a country Wonder if some of the loss in interest in music generally hasn't got some connection to generic electronically generated music which "hath not the soul of the performer.' I hear too much of it on the radio. beldon wade ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 16:21:26 +0000 From: Daniel Pliskin Subject: Re: in front of the TV > > I used to read, while playing oboe and English horn, but I haven't > > >figured out how to do that, while playing trombone. >No problem Dan. Replace the mouthpiece with a double reed and drill >some >finger holes along the slide, then you will be able to get back to your >favourite book. You will also go down in history alongside such famous >names as Richard Wagner, Adolphe Sax and Stan Kenton as the inventor of the >Sarrusobone. Adrian, You forgot the guy who drilled a hole in his kid’s tuning slide to hold it in tune, with a bolt and nut. What was his name, anyway? …Oh, never mind. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 12:56:17 -0400 From: sabutin Subject: Re: Check out IHT: How jazz got its groove back >Sam.. You are the BillyGraham of Jazz. > >beldon wade (lve.unkl.beau) ======== Please...can't I be the Billy Hart? Bill Evans? Billy Eckstine? Even Billy GOAT !!! Not Billy Graham...he IS the suit. S. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 13:12:09 -0400 From: Dave Burch Subject: Re: Trombone without a country I think the original post was focused on diminishing interest in the trombone and other low-range instruments, not on band participation in general. I hear this complaint from the band directors of my children: They have no trouble recruiting kids to play trumpet or saxophone, but no one is eager to play the trombone. (The same is true in our string program, which typically features a million violins, two violas, two celli, and a bass if it's a good year.) The possible reasons for this have been discussed over and over: The scarcity of interesting, or even distinct, trombone parts in the school band literature is what I hear in our band concerts, and what I point out to our directors when I have their ear. A sympton of the problem is that our high school band director and show choir director keep hiring me to play their shows, either because they don't have a trombonist who is up to the job, else the one they have is in the cast. --Dave Burch ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 12:12 PM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Trombone without a country > Wonder if some of the loss in interest in music generally hasn't got some > connection to generic electronically generated music which "hath not the soul > of the performer.' I hear too much of it on the radio. > > beldon wade > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 13:32:02 EDT From: BJMCHAFFIE@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Check out IHT: How jazz got its groove back Evangelical for Jazz. Suit not included. beldon wade ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 17:37:25 +0000 From: Daniel Pliskin Subject: Re: How jazz got its groove back >While my sister-in-law maintains that I am an elitist, I maintain that jazz >music is more complex than 'pop' music and therefore appeals >to a more >intellectual audiance. Alan, It all depends on how much intelligence you apply to listening to whatever type of music, you’re listening to. If you were trying to make big money in music, believe me, you’d be analyzing the heck out of the pop music you were listening to. At the other extreme are those that let the music just pour over them, and feel what there is to feel, without analyzing anything. Is feeling one type of music more intellectual than feeling some other type of music? (Well, I guess it didn’t take much to feel the beat with disco, so I guess I’m talking about something a bit deeper than just getting the tempo.) So are you an elitist? Well, yes. We’re all elitists on this list. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 10:46:16 -0700 From: Elisabeth Frederick Subject: Buzzing, why I don't think its the valve Hello list, A few people have suggested its the valve. I've oiled it, not stopping it. AND, if while I'm playing I put my hand around the bell brace in the middle of the bell secion holding part of the bell flare, the buzzing stops. Therefore, I believe its the brace. Thanks!! I'm about to call International Music Suppliers, so I'll let you know what happens!! Elisabeth ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 13:38:45 -0400 From: dcrane@RMI.NET Subject: Re: How jazz got its groove back Glenn Ferris (lead trombonist with the Don Ellis band for many years) makes his home in France as does the author Mike Zwerin. Mr. Zwerin is (or at least was) a trombonist. His claim to fame as a trombonist is that he played in Miles Davis' "Birth of the Cool" band in the late 1940's and can be heard on a live date with that band which was issued about ten years ago. J.J. Johnson and Kai Winding split the trombone duties on the studio dates. So the answer to your question is 1+. Doug Crane dcrane@rmi.net On Wed, 28 Aug 2002 16:25:13 +0900 Joseph Green wrote: For another perspective on a topic sometimes discussed here, read this www.iht.com/articles/68995.htm and then take the quiz: How many trombonists does the article mention? I counted one. ++++++++++++++ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 13:51:21 -0400 From: Chuck De Paolo Subject: Re: Trombone without a country > I hear this complaint from the band directors of my children: They > have no trouble recruiting kids to play trumpet or saxophone, but no = one is > eager to play the trombone. (The same is true in our string program, = which > typically features a million violins, two violas, two celli, and a = bass if > it's a good year.) And that, I believe, is the result of kids simply not hearing the = instrument enough in person. Think of how many great players you've = heard over the years remark that they started playing trombone because = they heard so-and-so playing it and they were hooked. How many kids = have that opportunity these days? =20 My solution - Those of you who have trombone quartets, go out and play = in the schools, for free if need be. Most of you get together on the = weekends anyhow with few if any aspirations about making money at the = gig. I know - I talk to alot of you on the phone. Consider it = "preservation of the species" if you will. I'm not advocating putting = working musicians out of work. I am advocating getting out there and = sharing what you have with impressionable kids. They have so much crap = thrown at them these days that there may not be room for self-made music = in their lives. As an aside - we've long known that our chief = competition is not J.W. Pepper or Osmun, it's BestBuy, Nintendo and the = Internet. Ditto today's kids. When I was in college, we had a brass quintet that used to go around and = play short concerts at elementary schools and "wow" the kids with the = instruments. Lots of glissando on trombone, at least one "tubby" tuba = solo, cool sounding horn stuff, screech trumpet. Stuff that turns kids = on. The teachers always told us that we made a favorable impression and = that there was invariably one or two (al least) new kids who signed up = because of that assembly, often on low brass. On another note, I had a colleague who taught in Georgia. He made every = drum student also play double bass. Had a hell of an orchestra at that = school. In Music, ---Charles De Paolo General Manager & Webmaster, Hickeys Music Center (http://www.hickeys.com) Owner, Ensemble Publications (http://members.aol.com/enspub) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Dave Burch=20 To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU=20 Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 1:12 PM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Trombone without a country The possible reasons for this have been discussed over and over: The scarcity of interesting, or even distinct, trombone parts in the = school band literature is what I hear in our band concerts, and what I point out = to our directors when I have their ear. A sympton of the problem is that our high school band director and = show choir director keep hiring me to play their shows, either because they = don't have a trombonist who is up to the job, else the one they have is in = the cast. --Dave Burch ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 12:12 PM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Trombone without a country > Wonder if some of the loss in interest in music generally hasn't got = some > connection to generic electronically generated music which "hath not = the soul > of the performer.' I hear too much of it on the radio. > > beldon wade > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 11:03:39 -0700 From: Elisabeth Frederick Subject: Coltrane/bebop/Jazz Hello List, The comments about Coltrane getting a little out there made me remember a little something. I was in a phase where I was listening to mostly Coltrane and I had started with listening to some of his earliest recordings and working to his later and more complex ones. I believe that doing this really gave me a different understanding and a better ear for his improvisation. My mother on the other hand, couldn't stand it when I was listening to Giant Steps in the car, it all sounded too crazy to her. My mother is a person who really likes the Big Band Jazz era and classical music, except Wagner. She wanted to know what I was doing with the whole boxed set (on vinyl) of the Ring Cycle. Actually she said, 'you won't like that very much'. Which I was very amused, either way, I wanted it so I could play the parts with more understanding. But, she would probably be a typical concert goer....and yes, doesn't like many types of music that fit under the Jazz umbrella. my .02 Liz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 11:14:37 -0700 From: Gabriel Langfur Subject: Re: [TL]How jazz got its groove back --- SteveInside@AOL.COM wrote: > And then there was Coltrane. Despite > his magnificence, it > did get a bit silly there for a while. Searching to be > taken 'seriously' > maybe left the easy stuff for rock and roll, R&B, soul, > Motown etc. > Wow...I can't conceive of a single occurrence in which I would use Coltrane and silly in the same sentence. OK, consecutive sentences. I'm no Coltrane scolar, but my impression is that he was a VERY serious guy, and that "being taken seriously" was probably not a goal that ever entered his mind. Artistic truth, seeking, searching and exploring the limits of musical expression, expressing his faith and his humanity, maybe...maybe those goals never even took the form of language in his mind, just a driving need to DO what he felt called to. Artists at the level of Coltrane, Van Gogh, Beethoven - while they may have been guilty of taking themselves too seriously for their own mental health - deserve our utmost respect and admiration, IMO. That kind of single-minded obsession has produced truly miraculous art. Gabe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 14:17:41 EDT From: ALFORDMB@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Trombone without a country In a message dated 08/28/2002 1:12:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, daveburch@FUSE.NET writes: > I hear this complaint from the band directors of my children: They > have no trouble recruiting kids to play trumpet or saxophone, but no one is > eager to play the trombone. ----------------- I suspect this is not a new phenomenon. I need to tell my "old timer's story." Back in 1953 when I went "out for band" I told the director I wanted to play trumpet, because that seemed "cool" to me. The band director told me he had plenty of trumpets, but he needed trombones. He said if I played a trombone I could join NOW. If I wanted to play trumpet I would have to wait for an opening. I wanted to be in the band so I said OK. After a year in beginners' band he jumped me all the way up to High School. Why? Yep, because he needed trombones. (And I made the cut - still have that letter proudly mounted in a scrap book, too.) Because of this I was able to play in the high school marching band and concert band for 5 whole years. I loved it and I quickly grew to love the trombone. But the point is, it sounds like almost 50 years ago they were facing this same issue. What does it mean? Back then big bands were still selling records. Glenn Miller hadn't been dead that long. TD was still playing. JJ and Kai were just around the corner. Looking back, obviously it wasn't the instrument that drew me in. I wanted to play in a band. Is that what we are not instilling in kids today? I dunno. I'm just thinking out loud . . . But my experience tells me the trombone isn't going to die. It may not be the most popular (or sexiest?) instrument around but here's what I have run into over and over. Meet another musician and they find out you play trombone and the next thing you hear is, "our group needs trombones. Can you join us?" I'm not going to worry about disappearing trombones. Mike Alford ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 14:23:22 EDT From: Joestanko@AOL.COM Subject: Bach 50B with Mt. Vernon bell and slide for sale Bach 50B single valve bass trombone for sale; - Bell is 9 1/2" yellow brass and is unlacquered. Condition is very good but not pristine; some very minor pitting, but overall no dents or folds. - Slide is serial number 5239, made in 1957. It was originally silver plated and most of the plating has been removed; original leadpipe was removed and not available. The condition is excellent. - The single valve section is a completely stock 50B with ball and socket trigger linkage. The valve section dates from the late 70's; condition is excellent. The bell was attached to the valve section and the slide cleaned and checked by NYC repairman Terry Pierce. He stated that the bell was in great shape for a flare of this vintage. I can email digital photos upon request which show excellent details, and can then answer specific questions. Price is $1500 plus shipping from NYC area; no case included. I can discuss leadpipe options as needed. Joe Stanko ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 13:38:38 -0500 From: "Dr. Carole Nowicke, Applied Health Science" Subject: 3rd Redeeming Brass Workshop, November 15th-17th 3rd Redeeming Brass Workshop, November 15th-17th "Fallfest With Tubas" Sponsored by Clinch River Brasses and NABBA Historic Norris, Tennessee The workshop opens Friday evening November 15th, and ends on the afternoon of Sunday the 17th. Weather permitting, some performances will be outdoors on the Commons. The workshop features open playing sessions of tuba-euphonium ensemble music and low brasswind solos with British brass band accompaniment. The workshop will commemorate the centennial of William Bell's birth, as well as contemplate fine performances. A highlight of this year's workshop will be the participation of the Twin-Cities Tuba Band from Winston-Salem, North Carolina, which will lead a Moravian Love Feast on Sunday. Workshop Leader: Professor Sande MacMorran, University of Tennessee, Knoxville. Workshop Director: Lloyd P. Farrar. Open participation -- No Fee High School Students, College Students, and Amateurs encouraged to attend For more information, contact Lloyd P. Farrar (865) 494-8869 ........ Carole "just the messenger, call Lloyd P. Farrar" Nowicke cnowicke@indiana.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 19:20:56 +0000 From: Daniel Pliskin Subject: Re: Trombone without a country >And that, I believe, is the result of kids simply not hearing the >instrument enough in person. What? They're not hearing trombone on those Heavy Metal stations? DanP _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 14:36:39 -0500 From: Richard Johnson Subject: Re: Check out IHT: How jazz got its groove back Here is a link to an interesting regarding jazz: http://aolsvc.peopleconnection.africana.aol.com/Utilities/Content.html?&../c gi-bin/banner.pl?banner=Arts&../Reviews/music_120.htm Nice thoughts, Sam......causes me to think. Here is the article in its entirety: In a recent edition of the Boston Globe Fred Kaplan reported that "Jazz is not dead, but few would call it healthy.. Americans spend 13 billion dollars a year on compact discs, but jazz CDs account for less than 3 percent of those purchases." Oh woe is us! As if record sales are the total barometer for the health of an art form! These kind of alarmist announcements come off as sensationalist reportage, getting folks all hot and bothered about the impending death of jazz, which in turn yields an avalanche of "urgent" internet messages by frightened jazz loyalists who have failed to consider the source of these statistics - the Recording Industry Association of America. The RIAA, one of the three largest, wealthiest lobbying organizations in this country - right up there with the AARP and the NRA - represents the major record labels. But why does the record industry require such a wealthy lobbying organization? Could it be that an industry engaged in decades of questionable, fast and loose accounting practices (think Enron) just naturally needs to be all up in Congress's face - all the time? And what exactly are the major record labels about? The instant gratification game. Just as Hollywood places all its bets on how a film performs in its hypercritical first weekend, the recording industry is focused solely on how the marketplace accepts a record during the initial weeks of its release. And let's not forget, the RIAA has never cared about jazz music (despite the thoroughly specious recent posting of Wynton Marsalis on their web site); they've rarely been the least bit interested in the perpetuation of the art form. Jazz is a vanity pursuit at best for the major record conglomerates. If you want to find where the bulk of vital and creative jazz recordings are being made, try the smaller, independent labels, few if any of whom subscribe to the RIAA. The latest Down Beat magazine poll lists the twelve top jazz record labels, eight of which are independent labels. JazzTimes magazine's last year-end poll found 27 out of the top fifty rated records for 2001 to be from independent labels. If you've followed jazz at all you know that record sales live and die by their shelf life. In the current issue of Down Beat there's an interview with saxophonist Branford Marsalis, who has just launched his own record label, Marsalis Music. Branford formerly held an A&R position at Columbia Records, where he was responsible for several new artists. Regarding that tenure, Branford said something that revealed how misunderstood jazz music is by some of its handlers: "A friend at Columbia was grilling me about all the stuff that was wrong with my tenure..He says, 'How can it be, you signed these artists and our biggest selling record is still Kind Of Blue [Miles Davis' enduring 1961 classic]. You're not doing a good job.' I said, 'Man, don't tell me how many records Kind Of Blue is selling in the year 2000. Tell me how many records Kind Of Blue sold in 1961. Now go get that sheet out, and let's use that.' This is jazz, you know." One of jazz's all-time biggest sellers, Kind Of Blue continues to sell at a steady pace today, and will likely do so well into the future. Forty years from now, how many of their recent records do you suppose Brittany Spears or Beyonce Knowles will be selling? Ever browse a full-service record store and compare how many fifty-year-old jazz records are available verses the number of five-year-old pop hits that aren't? This is the type of achievement that the RIAA's stats don't take into account. But if that's the case, the real question is why we continue to us the RIAA's stats to gauge a music it just doesn't understand. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 15:46:08 EDT From: BJMCHAFFIE@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Check out IHT: How jazz got its groove back Back in the 40's we had a scandal, it was called Payola. Record companies paid DJ's to play .... Now we got Lobbhests? beldon wade ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 19:55:30 +0000 From: alan partis Subject: Re: Trombone without a country At 07:20 PM 08/28/2002 +0000, Daniel Pliskin wrote: >>And that, I believe, is the result of kids simply not hearing the >>instrument enough in person. > >What? They're not hearing trombone on those Heavy Metal stations? I might be an abboration (OK, I AM an abboration), but I grew up on heavy metal (favorite bands were Rush, Van Halen, Black Sabbath, etc.) and really didn't see a great deal of top notch live performances by trombone players per se. I did see a lot of high school concerts, Doc Sevrenson with the Rochester Phil and the odd Canadian Brass concert in Buffalo. Still, music of all styles grew to mean a great deal to me and something about which I am passionate and believe strongly that it must be a big part of my daughter's life. For me, my passion came from within -- I was encouraged by my parents much moreso than other musicians. Frankly, the trombone was my 3rd instrumental choice as a child (first was trumpet, then tuba ... I told you I was an abboration), but I also played suzuki violin, piano, and organ through junior high. I did find my greatest success with the trombone though and is the only instrument I have stuck with though I have great intentions of relearning piano. What's my point? Trombone players will always come along in appropriate numbers as long as there is an appreciation for real music instilled in our children. But since music is really an integral part of the human condition, I really don't think there's any real danger (my previous posting about lazy Americans notwithstanding) of a trombone extinction. ____________________________________________ alan partis, amateur bonehead louisville, ky ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 16:26:57 -0400 From: dcrane@RMI.NET Subject: Re: Check out IHT: How jazz got its groove back Well, actually the payola thing happened in the 1950's. And it's back, bigger than ever. Only now it's the mega-corporations like Clear Channel and CBS/Infinity that pocket the money, not the DJ's. Here's a link to the Boston Globe story "With Sales Flat, Jazz Industry Has Lost Its Groove Is jazz as we know it dead?" that Zwerin references at the beginning of his column: http://grammy.aol.com/features/0814_jazz.html Doug Crane dcrane@rmi.net On Wed, 28 Aug 2002 15:46:08 EDT BJMCHAFFIE@AOL.COM wrote: Back in the 40's we had a scandal, it was called Payola. Record companies paid DJ's to play .... Now we got Lobbhests? beldon wade ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 16:37:05 -0400 From: Steve Beck Subject: Re: Buzzing, why I don't think its the valve From: "Elisabeth Frederick" > Thanks!! I'm about to call International Music Suppliers, Call them if you must (1-800-762-1116) but I think you'll have better luck calling United Musical Instruments (219 295-0079). ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 16:36:45 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee Subject: Re: Trombone without a country At 01:51 PM 8/28/2002 -0400, Chuck De Paolowrote: > > I hear this complaint from the band directors of my children: They > > have no trouble recruiting kids to play trumpet or saxophone, but no one is > > eager to play the trombone. (The same is true in our string program, which > > typically features a million violins, two violas, two celli, and a bass if > > it's a good year.) > >And that, I believe, is the result of kids simply not hearing the >instrument enough in person. Think of how many great players you've heard >over the years remark that they started playing trombone because they >heard so-and-so playing it and they were hooked. How many kids have that >opportunity these days? > >My solution - Those of you who have trombone quartets, go out and play in >the schools, for free if need be. Most of you get together on the >weekends anyhow with few if any aspirations about making money at the >gig. I know - I talk to alot of you on the phone. Consider it >"preservation of the species" if you will. Definitely. In my area, we have a trombone quartet, a large trombone choir, and a jazz combo that fronts 4 trombones and a sax, all performing regularly. We also organize an annual event called Jingle Bones that brings out 50-plus trombonists -- professionals, weekend warriors, and students of all ages -- to perform a Christmas concert that is well attended. In the course of working with these ensembles, I have discovered that there are MANY more trombonists out there than I would ever have imagined. It just takes some leadership to create the occasions to bring them together. Everybody can do a Jingle Bones in their community. Now is the time to start planning that. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 17:07:13 -0500 From: Brandon Moodie <3bones@3BONES.COM> Subject: Items for sale (bell, gig bag, mpcs, etc.) Cleaning out the closets.... Edwards 1223 bass bell flare - 9-1/2 inch, 22 gauge, double-buffed, rose brass, unsoldered bead rim. Unlacquered. A few tiny mute dings, but otherwise in excellent condition. The bell comes with Edwards mounting hardware, but the hardware is not attached (I had it mounted on a Bach) - $250 + shipping Altieri double gig bag - holds two large bore tenor trombones. Excellent slide protection (more info at www.altieribags.com). A few scuffs and scratches (but no tears) on the outside pocket, but otherwise in excellent condition. (pictures available) $170 + shipping Monette BT-1 mouthpiece - Very large piece, kind of like a Schilke 60 but with an even bigger cup and backbore, and more mass (more info at www.monette.net). Excellent condition. (pictures available) Gold plated. $175 Bach 6-1/2A large shank - very good condition. $12 Bach 12C small shank - a bit tarnished, but very good condition. $12 Schilke 51C4 small shank - shank end is slightly dented, but easily fixed. Otherwise very good condition. $10 Patrick Williams "Sinatraland" CD - Features solos by Bill Watrous and Phil Teele. I somehow ended up with two copies. Opened, but in mint condition. $8 Charlie Parker Omnibook, bass clef edition - back cover is in bad shape, but rest of the book is fine. $5 Four small shank mouthpieces - Yamaha 47, Conn 12C, Olds 3, and one unlabeled mouthpiece (looks about the size of a 12C with a little shallower cup). All are in fair condition... definitely salvageable/playable but some significant scratches here and there, or shank ends are out of round. I have no use for them, but maybe someone could use them to simply experiment/compare models in this size range. $12 for the whole lot, and I'll cover shipping on these. Please reply to 3bones@3bones.com Prices do not include shipping. Insured, traceable shipping should be no more than $15 for the larger items and $5 for smaller items. I'll gladly combine items to save on shipping, and if you have a preferred (cheaper) method, just let me know. Thanks, --Brandon Moodie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 00:14:18 +0200 From: Arthur Koolen Subject: trombone tuned in C or Bes (A very little bit confused) Hello List, Today I was at our music shop. There was a customer that wanted to try the Yamaha kid-bone (sorry don't now the real name/type). If I am correct it is tuned in Bes and the trigger is tuned in C. A repairman went with the customer into a test room. Some minutes later he came back and asked a sales employee in which tune the trombone was. He thought it was in Bes but wasn't sure. The sales employee said in was in C. So I said that it was in Bes and the trigger in C. The sales employee just didn't believe me. I said that all (standard/normal) tenor trombones are tuned in Bes. He showed me a chart of a tuning device which said flute,oboe,bassoon,trombone C. Trumpet,Euphonium Bes etc. I said that I would explain it later to him (after I asked the list :-) ) When I drove home these questions came up to me: Is a trombone tuned in Bes or C? If in Bes why do we play (expect in original Brass Band) C-parts? Why are we learned to play in C on a Bes instrument? Does a trombone belong to the group of C-instruments or to group of Bes-instruments? I hope you can explain it to me...and to the sales employee (who is a trumpet player ;-) ) Grtz. From The Netherlands Arthur P.S. I heard the customer play the kid-bone and it sounded a little bit overdone,loud,"cracky". So when a kid plays it (less airpower) I would think it sounds like a normal trombone of that bore and bell size. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 19:00:30 EDT From: BJMCHAFFIE@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Check out IHT: How jazz got its groove back So we gotta find a girl at 14 that looks like Britteny Spears, with a naked navel and that can play trombone like JJ> That will give her enough time to hit the big time before she starts driving a car at 16. beldonwade ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 21:02:48 -0500 From: Jon Moeller Subject: Re: trombone tuned in C or Bes (A very little bit confused) The trombone is a Bb instrument, we read music written in concert pitch (maybe cause we are just smarter than those trumpets), but probably because there haven't been trombones made in Db, Eb, Ab, C, etc (im talking 17th 18th century here) whereas trumpets and the like, (not having valves at that time) had to have a way that they could play whatever what is in front of them without having to learn transpositions up the wazoo, so they developed the "call whatever your harmonic series is based on C" system, and it has stuck to this day... -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of Arthur Koolen Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 5:14 PM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: [TBN-L] trombone tuned in C or Bes (A very little bit confused) Hello List, Today I was at our music shop. There was a customer that wanted to try the Yamaha kid-bone (sorry don't now the real name/type). If I am correct it is tuned in Bes and the trigger is tuned in C. A repairman went with the customer into a test room. Some minutes later he came back and asked a sales employee in which tune the trombone was. He thought it was in Bes but wasn't sure. The sales employee said in was in C. So I said that it was in Bes and the trigger in C. The sales employee just didn't believe me. I said that all (standard/normal) tenor trombones are tuned in Bes. He showed me a chart of a tuning device which said flute,oboe,bassoon,trombone C. Trumpet,Euphonium Bes etc. I said that I would explain it later to him (after I asked the list :-) ) When I drove home these questions came up to me: Is a trombone tuned in Bes or C? If in Bes why do we play (expect in original Brass Band) C-parts? Why are we learned to play in C on a Bes instrument? Does a trombone belong to the group of C-instruments or to group of Bes-instruments? I hope you can explain it to me...and to the sales employee (who is a trumpet player ;-) ) Grtz. From The Netherlands Arthur P.S. I heard the customer play the kid-bone and it sounded a little bit overdone,loud,"cracky". So when a kid plays it (less airpower) I would think it sounds like a normal trombone of that bore and bell size. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 21:09:25 -0500 From: Richard Johnson Subject: Re: Trombone without a country That is a good idea, Chuck. That is one reason that I advocate playing in church if possible. Adults and children alike get a chance to hear how a trombone sounds. Secondly, the practice can only make you better. Oh, also, two other things........One thing, you have a captive audience. Second, you usually learn something that is good for you! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck De Paolo" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 12:51 PM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Trombone without a country And that, I believe, is the result of kids simply not hearing the instrument enough in person. Think of how many great players you've heard over the years remark that they started playing trombone because they heard so-and-so playing it and they were hooked. How many kids have that opportunity these days? My solution - Those of you who have trombone quartets, go out and play in the schools, for free if need be. Most of you get together on the weekends anyhow with few if any aspirations about making money at the gig. I know - I talk to alot of you on the phone. Consider it "preservation of the species" if you will. I'm not advocating putting working musicians out of work. I am advocating getting out there and sharing what you have with impressionable kids. They have so much crap thrown at them these days that there may not be room for self-made music in their lives. As an aside - we've long known that our chief competition is not J.W. Pepper or Osmun, it's BestBuy, Nintendo and the Internet. Ditto today's kids. In Music, ---Charles De Paolo General Manager & Webmaster, Hickeys Music Center (http://www.hickeys.com) Owner, Ensemble Publications (http://members.aol.com/enspub) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 22:18:36 -0400 From: Dennis Kitchen Subject: 21 Trombones A couple weeks ago a few of us talked about the 21 Trombone concert, = Saturday August 31st in Bemus Point New York. If you are interested in more info check out: www.bemusbaypops.com Hope to see some of you there.=20 Tom Sousa, are you going? Dennis ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 22:50:40 EDT From: ROSEBONE@AOL.COM Subject: Re: trombone tuned in C or Bes (A very little bit confused) all, This is a newer instrument that Yamaha came out with fairly recently - yes the trombone is in C, with a descending valve to Bb. However, valve is sprung backwards - so the when it is depressed, it removes the extra tubing (like an ascending valve on a french horn). Bill Rose McNeese State Univ. Lake Charles, LA rosebone@aol.com In a message dated 8/28/02 9:03:33 PM, mole2k4@ATTBI.COM writes: >Today I was at our music shop. There was a customer that wanted to try >the Yamaha kid-bone (sorry don't now the real name/type). If I am >correct it is tuned in Bes and the trigger is tuned in C. >A repairman went with the customer into a test room. Some minutes later >he came back and asked a sales employee in which tune the trombone was. >He thought it was in Bes but wasn't sure. >The sales employee said in was in C. So I said that it was in Bes and >the trigger in C. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 00:41:23 -0500 From: "D.J. Kennedy" Subject: [Fwd: cohen center jazz orchestra ------]popeye picnic chester illinois and i thought this guitar player was gonn git me ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,helps comin D.J. Kennedy wrote: > --------------------------------------------------------------- > we need a bit of a pa ---after seeing christian lindberg the ideas are beginning to > form > the cast of players has increased yet we do not wish the superb talents to run awash > in muddied tones --this calls for definite planning -- > -------i so wish to hear budimir playing some of his forte --period pieces -- > the bit of gershwin ---part of his mozart concerto basset horn //recorder //clarinet > after looking over johns song list i believe ----favorite things -------- might > be an approiate > springboard //vehicle --chord structure and message ----within which the favorite > things emerge ---so incredible was john coltranes intrepretation > ---------- > we have a shakespearean actor of incredible talents -----to bring to the rustics > > a few word thoughts a soloiquy perhaps -we should pause > to give wonderment of the clouds --the rainy dew -the wine > our ears --give us your ears ---chesterians --illinoisans -- > kind folk ----hearken ----------ta ta ------annuit ---to the sound of distant > trumpets > sire sire a message from the east !!!!!!!!! .....// > ------------------------------------------------------------- > it would be nice to hear the guitar played solo ---[for about 5 seconds before > we point our bells at him ] > ------------------------------ > and do something really funky in e --so i can try out the electronic bone ---- > ------------------------------------------ > if we could do a very campversion of proud to be an american -----[no offense dan] > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > i want to do --if i only had a brain --to honor carl fontanna --- > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > there is also a song that icomposed for euphonium after the storm > --9----7-----3-[date ] ryhthmic structure for the performance > it was a song played outside after a very intense storm knocked all the electricity > outside [end of the world] --and the dogs were signaling each other > im here -----------------------im here ------------------here -here > -----if you get the bigger meaning --- > ------------------------------- > the piece will start from total silence ----and i will start it off ---and you will > hear the howl of the wolf ---[even if one of us has to go over the hill to do it ] > > ------------------------------------- > theme for day -daze of winos and rosies -------its sort of a drunken butch > version > of andy williams song--- > which each succeeding time its played gets wilder and wilder > ----wine tasting -----bombed !!!!!!! > -----------any input ???????????????????????????????????????????????????? > > Chris Moncelli wrote: > > > Tomorrow...29th...is Charlie Parker's birthday!! > > Also Michael Jackson (gag, gag, retch!!!) > > And in between...mine! > > I have a friend who thinks that our souls mingled while in limbo because > > I was born shortly after Bird died. All I know is, the older I get, the > > more I want sex and improvisation!!! > > Benzedrine inhalers would be nice, too!!! > > Or maybe some kickass weed. Hell, I haven't even seen any weed in 20 > > years!!! > > Haven't seen any *&^%$&*% either for that matter. Somebody please tell > > me why wives don't want to have sex anymore!!!!!! > > OK. I'll be better in a few minutes. > > I'll be there on the 7th!!! Bone (or bones) in hand. Yeah, yeah, yeah! I > > know! That didn't sound right. > > But really, I'm looking forward to coming down to blow up a storm w/your > > bad self! > > Do you want to do some organized bone arrangements? > > Can I bribe (I mean bring) a jazz trio with me? Can I ask some other > > bone men to show? Can we make it a bone-o-rama??? > > Did you ask Watrous to come? > > > > Gotta go. > > Doin' that bone blowin' thang! > > Chris > > > > "D.J. Kennedy" wrote: > > > > > > hey whats cookin tomorrow 29 th ??????? > > > duquoin state fair is happenin ---i called big larry and hesaid come see him > > > budweiser tent 7---11 > > > > > > Chris Moncelli wrote: > > > > > > > When IS popeye??? > > > > What weekend? > > > > Give me a date. > > > > > > > > CAM > > > > > > > > "D.J. Kennedy" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > 51 bucks ----super cheep !!!!! > > > > > come on down for the popeye---budimir --on basset horn jaoh farrar guitar > > > > > lleanne and robin > > > > > 00000000thursday 29th wzzzzup ????? > > > > > claton arts fair -thats a big show ---- > > > > > roy barnes is supposed to be comin > > > > > its stiil the real book stuff ---i might try the electric bone on one > > > > > number > > > > > a real short no. ---- > > > > > > > > > > moncelli@apci.net wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > DJ, > > > > > > > > > > > > How's it goin'? I just picked up a Conn valve trombone for $51! > > > > > > The bell is a mid '60s 6H and the valve section is older, I think from a '50s > > > > > > 5G but not sure. Blows really good! Needs a little TLC. > > > > > > > > > > > > When's Popeye? And do you care if I come down with horn in hand? > > > > > > What are you doing Aug 29th? (thursday?) > > > > > > BTW - Playing at Clayton arts fair on Sep 14th. You gonna be there? > > > > > > Gotta go > > > > > > > > > > > > Chris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 23:09:10 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee Subject: Re: trombone tuned in C or Bes (A very little bit confused) At 12:14 AM 8/29/2002 +0200, Arthur Koolen wrote: >The sales employee just didn't believe me. I said that all >(standard/normal) tenor trombones are tuned in Bes. He showed me a chart >of a tuning device which said flute,oboe,bassoon,trombone C. >Trumpet,Euphonium Bes etc. Your salesman is confusing the pitch of the instrument with the transposition requirements. Most trombones, indeed most brass instruments, are pitched in Bb. This Yamaha instrument (the Yamaha 350C) is pitched in Bb, just like nearly every other tenor trombone. That is, when you have the slide in 1st position and don't press the trigger, you get the harmonic series of Bb. In the case of the 350C, when you don't press the trigger, the valve loop *IS* used. When you press the trigger, the valve loop is bypassed, raising the harmonic series a step to C. It is unconventional, but it allows the student to use the first 5 slide positions as usual and they can catch the C and B natural with the trigger, more or less as we do with the F attachment. The markings on the tuner relate to the transposition. Trombones are not transposed. When we play a "C", a C comes out of the instrument (one hopes). When a trumpet plays a "C" (on a common trumpet), out comes a Bb. When an alto sax plays a "C", out comes an Eb (or a nasty squeal -- you never really know what to expect). That is why people sometimes call the trombone a "C" instrument, but it is better to call it a non-transposed instrument. Hope that helps, Craig ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 21:25:21 -0700 From: Elisabeth Frederick Subject: Re: trombone tuned in C or Bes (A very little bit confused) Craig Said: >That is why people sometimes call > the trombone a "C" instrument, but it is better to call it a non-transposed > instrument. > This is the most logical statement I have heard about this discussion in a long time! So, I am going to go practice my non-transposed trombone. :^) Elisabeth ------------------------------ End of TROMBONE-L Digest - 27 Aug 2002 to 28 Aug 2002 (#2002-46) ****************************************************************