Subject: TROMBONE-L Digest - 25 Aug 2002 to 26 Aug 2002 (#2002-44) There are 35 messages totalling 1583 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. OTJ Classifieds Update - 08/26/02 2. Martin Urbie Green model for sale 3. For the love of GOD! 4. the value of instruction (11) 5. Further praise for Phil Teele. 6. More about Teele stuff (was: Further praise for Phil Teele) (2) 7. Kai and JJ music 8. Bad slide cream joke : was RE: [TBN-L] the value of instruction (4) 9. Trombone without a country (6) 10. Smiling 11. Bad slide cream joke : was RE: [TBN-L] the value of instruction (2) 12. State of Music today!!! 13. apologies (3) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 06:26:44 -0500 From: Chris Waage Subject: OTJ Classifieds Update - 08/26/02 The Online Trombone Journal Classifieds (http://www.trombone.org/classifieds) have been updated as of 6:20 AM CDT on August 26, 2002. - - - - - Thank you for using the OTJ Classifieds! - - - - - OTJ Classifieds Frequently Asked Questions http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/faq.asp OTJ Gift Shoppe: http://www.cafepress.com/cp/store/store.aspx?storeid=trombones If you have any questions or comments about the Online Trombone Journal Classifieds, please contact me at chris@trombone.org. Chris -- ________________________________________________ Chris Waage, Associate Webmaster chris@trombone.org http://www.trombone.org - A web site for trombonists ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 08:29:55 -0400 From: sabutin Subject: Martin Urbie Green model for sale Hi all... Martin Urbie Green Model in impeccable shape, with original, barely used hard case. $950 plus shipping I have perceived a real need among many players for good, relatively inexpensive jazz horns...orchestral players who want to play in other idioms, amateurs and students, and jazz players who are dissatisfied w/the small horns being made today and/or their prices. Most aren't willing to take the risk of buying a used horn, especially by mail, for fear of being ripped off or getting an inferior instrument. I am in a position to eliminate that fear to some degree. I am buying likely horns, fixing what needs to be fixed, and offering them for sale at reasonable prices. Those of you who know me know that I will stand by whatever I sell, and I will offer only the best under my own name. I will put these horns up for sale first on the Online Trombone Journal Classifieds and the trombone list, for only a week or two. Then I will withdraw them and auction them on ebay under my own name.. Horns I buy that aren't up to snuff I will simply put back on ebay under a seller's pseudonym and try to break even. This horn is my first offering. I think the Martin Urbie Green Model is by far the best lightweight .500 bore horn ever made...I mean, Urbie Green helped to design it and both he and Dave Steinmeyer play one. Need I say more? They are great lead horns, very good for playing jazz, w/a wonderful response ppp through FF, great upper register and very good in the middle and low ranges as well. This one appears to have been barely used. There is a little lacquer wear around the fastening nut, not much else. Great slide. I've played it, and it's just a good example of a good horn at a good price. Today is August 20th. I will withdraw it from the OTJ and list it on ebay around September 1st. These horns list for $1650 w/out a case. You do the math. Later... Sam Burtis ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 13:44:01 +0000 From: Jason Akai Subject: For the love of GOD! you know that virus hoax has been around forever. AND its something this list has had to go through already here. This list is for trombone and music based information. You will never have information on a virus that you NEED to send to anyone, or any stupid game about sending something to so many people and something will happen - yes that something is you will block up someone else's email system and piss them off with crap email. If you're ever not sure - CHECK BEFORE YOU CRY WOLF! And checking on your machine is not going to help. by deleting that file, you've disabled you ability to see long file names in windows. Congrats. Ciao Pissed off J _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 17:07:59 +0000 From: alan partis Subject: the value of instruction Ladies and Gentlemen, I'm soliciting thoughts on the topic of the value of lessons and instruction over time. I'm 36 years old and am getting my horn out again after a long layoff (I am looking to get my old chops back and find some playing outlets, mainly a brass quintet, trombone choir, orchestra, jazz band, or pit orchestra). I played all through high school and 4 years of college at Crane School of Music at SUNY Potsdam though I wasn't a music major. I used to be reasonably proficient and was able to audition my way into some of their top ensembles but I have never had the skills/talent to make a living as a performer (not that very many people do). I've played/practiced periodically over the years since then, but have not picked up my horn in something over 4 years now. At this point, what is the best approach for me to take regarding lessons/instruction? Part of me says to find a good local teacher and take weekly lessons. My wallet says to do only bi-weekly lessons at most. After reading a few posts here lately, I'm wondering if I really need to do more than take only one lesson or two from a good teacher and learn how best to practice and be my own teacher. This approach seems similar to what I would do if I wanted to improve my golf game actually -- take a lesson or two with a pro and apply what I learn about practice technique daily on the driving range. Any thoughts? - alan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 12:26:09 -0500 From: E P LUKAS Subject: Re: the value of instruction alan partis wrote: > > Ladies and Gentlemen, > > I'm soliciting thoughts on the topic of the value of lessons and > instruction over time. Alan, many of us here have been in thesame position as you. I found that daily long tones and a trombone exercise book work well. Don't rush! Join a community band or orchestra...one year time horizon. Find out what's cookin' in your area. Welcome back!! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 12:30:51 -0500 From: Jeff Albert Subject: Re: the value of instruction One very important thing that a teacher provides in addition to their knowledge and expertise, is another set of ears. I went to graduate school after I had been working professionally for a while, and the guy I studied with was actually a good friend and co-worker of mine. There were many occasions where he didn't tell me anything I didn't know, but he heard things I wasn't noticing. Sometimes lessons can be like visits to the doctor. Children go fairly often to make sure they develop correctly, and adults go when they are obviously sick, but regular check ups can identify problems before they get out of hand. My advice would be to take a lesson every two weeks for a few months, and after you feel you have regained your "health" go as needed for check ups. Jeff Albert www.jeffalbert.com -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of alan partis Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 12:08 PM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: [TBN-L] the value of instruction Ladies and Gentlemen, I'm soliciting thoughts on the topic of the value of lessons and instruction over time. I'm 36 years old and am getting my horn out again after a long layoff (I am looking to get my old chops back and find some playing outlets, mainly a brass quintet, trombone choir, orchestra, jazz band, or pit orchestra). I played all through high school and 4 years of college at Crane School of Music at SUNY Potsdam though I wasn't a music major. I used to be reasonably proficient and was able to audition my way into some of their top ensembles but I have never had the skills/talent to make a living as a performer (not that very many people do). I've played/practiced periodically over the years since then, but have not picked up my horn in something over 4 years now. At this point, what is the best approach for me to take regarding lessons/instruction? Part of me says to find a good local teacher and take weekly lessons. My wallet says to do only bi-weekly lessons at most. After reading a few posts here lately, I'm wondering if I really need to do more than take only one lesson or two from a good teacher and learn how best to practice and be my own teacher. This approach seems similar to what I would do if I wanted to improve my golf game actually -- take a lesson or two with a pro and apply what I learn about practice technique daily on the driving range. Any thoughts? - alan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 13:58:35 -0400 From: Dave Burch Subject: Re: Further praise for Phil Teele. This is a testimonial: As a tenor player who's been trying with limited success for a couple of years to master the low bass range, I ordered the Phil Teele book after reading the earlier messages about it. I practiced the first page of the book for the first time Saturday night, then at a brass ensemble rehearsal Sunday night I got a crack at a fairly challenging bass part. This included some loud trigger Cs and pedal A-flats that normally expose my limitations of volume and control. To my complete shock, as I was under no expectation of instant results from the Teele exercises, I was able to play this part quite well. A single session with the Teele exercises had enabled me to do things I never could do before. What made this success the more remarkable was that I had been really frustrated Saturday night when doing the exercises. I could play the pedal trigger E-flats, Ds, and Cs only weakly and with much wasted air. Playing the whole series was exhausting and left me feeling that I was accomplishing nothing. Thus, I was amazed the next day to find this sudden improvement. I see no other explanation than that the long tones on trigger pedals did something to my chops that prepared me to play well an octave higher, the day after the first session. I will be working the Teele book daily to see if the magic continues. --Dave Burch ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gabriel Langfur" To: Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 8:25 AM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Further praise for Phil Teele. > --- M & S Walker wrote: > > I've always had a problem with my pedal range, having a > > fairly dramatic > > "shift" right on pedal Bb. > > Wow Matt, sounds exactly like me! Except my shift was not > quite so dramatic, and happened a little higher. Low C and > B were always a little dicey and not quite focused enough > for good projection. Not bad enough to put me out of work, > but bad enough to be VERY frustrating. > > Just wait til you can do the whole routine! I've added a > higher series to the warmup, since my pedal B-flat was not > solid enough to be the first note of the day. In fact, what > I usually do now is choose a scale at random and play that, > starting on low B-flat or A, two octaves down through the > pedal register. Even better if I give myself a pulse to > play to, although for a while I had to think more about > form in the pedal register than time - it seemed like the > two disciplines at once was too much to handle, detracting > from both. I've been able to slowly incorporate the > discipline of a good pulse to start the notes, even in the > lowest pedal register. > > Also, when I called Phil about it and explained that I > couldn't get out a pedal E-flat with a middle register > embouchure at all, he told me to just start that day on a > pedal B-flat until I could - which he said wouldn't take > long, and didn't. > > "Start with what you CAN do." - Norman Bolter > > Have fun, > Gabe > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs > http://www.hotjobs.com > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 18:13:26 +0000 From: Daniel Pliskin Subject: Re: the value of instruction >Ladies and Gentlemen, You on da wrong list, son! >I'm 36 years old and am getting my horn out again after a long layoff >My wallet says to do only bi-weekly lessons at >most. After reading a few posts here lately, I'm wondering if I really >need to do more than take only one lesson or two from a good >teacher and >learn how best to practice and be my own teacher. Alan, I play lots of instruments and a middle-aged guy (no I didn’t grow up in the Middle Ages, though sometimes it seems that way). Two things are really important, when picking up an instrument that you haven’t played for a while. First is to get back into shape, so that you can sound good. Second is that you make sure that you’re having fun. If you’re new to this list, you might not know how into long tones we are. Long tones are like isometric exercises. They’ll get your embouchure working. If you’re willing to work on just getting your face working, then at least your sound will be worth listening to. But remember that your face muscles are just like other muscles in your body. If you were jogging, you wouldn’t keep trying to run after your knees started to buckle. Take a break, when your face starts to give out. Get back into it later, after a rest. Then there’s making it fun. Not being able to play, the way you used to, isn’t fun. So it probably won’t be rewarding to take out that music you used to love and try to get through it. On the other hand, playing an um-pah bass line to something on the stereo might be fun. Or playing scales and exercises in front of the TV might be a way to get lots of “face time” in, in a fairly painless way. I used to play along with Afro-Cuban jazz, for example. In the beginning, just playing a couple of notes, in rhythm, was enough to keep me going. Then I went on to trying to play guitar blues lines, with the trombone, while listening to bluesy stuff. But as an adult (and I use that term loosely), I think that you’ll find that your study habits are way better than they were when you used to play. I attribute that to being a bit more used to testosterone poisoning, since I don’t feel that I’m matured, with age. But I do find that just running through some exercises can be fun; not great fun but fun enough to keep me doing it for a while. So have fun getting your face back. Then take a lesson or two, just to get checked out. And use this list for advice. The stupidest questions are the one that don’t get asked. But also don’t be surprised if a simple question becomes a drawn-out heated argument. It just happens sometimes. DanP PS. Oh, there is one question that you may NOT want to ask. You may not want to ask a question like “What’s the best slide lube?” That really gets us going and, so far, we haven’t agreed on an answer. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 14:36:53 -0400 From: sabutin Subject: Re: More about Teele stuff (was: Further praise for Phil Teele) >This is a testimonial: As a tenor player who's been trying with limited >success for a couple of years to master the low bass range, I ordered the >Phil Teele book after reading the earlier messages about it. I practiced the >first page of the book for the first time Saturday night, then at a brass >ensemble rehearsal Sunday night I got a crack at a fairly challenging bass >part. This included some loud trigger Cs and pedal A-flats that normally >expose my limitations of volume and control. > >To my complete shock, as I was under no expectation of instant results from >the Teele exercises, I was able to play this part quite well. A single >session with the Teele exercises had enabled me to do things I never could >do before. > >What made this success the more remarkable was that I had been really >frustrated Saturday night when doing the exercises. I could play the pedal >trigger E-flats, Ds, and Cs only weakly and with much wasted air. Playing >the whole series was exhausting and left me feeling that I was accomplishing >nothing. Thus, I was amazed the next day to find this sudden improvement. I >see no other explanation than that the long tones on trigger pedals did >something to my chops that prepared me to play well an octave higher, the >day after the first session. > >I will be working the Teele book daily to see if the magic continues. > >--Dave Burch ============= Dave... It will... Sam P.S. I've been messing w/it inverted, too. It's harder to use in the higher ranges because they are tiring, but...same concept, same kind of results. To put what I am beginning to understand about the Teele approach into my multi-shift/Bel Canto idea (slightly different "voices" for different registers), what his stuff does is extend one setting as far as it can possibly go. Eventually...I don't care in what direction you go or from what note...eventually, a setting will stop functioning. Someone mentioned on the list that he contacted Phil after finding that he could only bring his 2cd partial Bb setting down to about pedal G or Gb and then he consistently petered out. Phil answered..."Start on pedal Bb and relate the lower notes to that one." And this worked for him. There it is... For those of you unfamiliar w/my system, I choose a scale at random every day or so and start all my exercises from the first note of that scale, in and through whatever octaves I wish to practice. I have been doing Teele-ish long tones (not often enough, but at least to the degree that I have seen that this works, and works well )off and on for about a year. starting on those randomly chosen notes in several octaves and going in both directions from them. For example, today I will use the scale F# G# A# B C C# D# E F# (B maj w/an added flat 2 starting on F#) as my practice scale. (Actually, I'll do this tomorrow because I have a hard gig tonight, worked another one last night and won't do much more than warm up today as a result.) Nevertheless...I will substitute the starting note F# for Phil's Bb, in whatever range I want to work, and then play the requisite nearly infinite number of long tones in what ever direction I want to go, relating each series to the starting note. (Slightly less nearly infinite, actually, because I'll only use the notes in that particular scale. Just a way to shorten things up somewhat.) This works in the middle ranges too. It "works" everywhere, especially if you understand HOW it works. It forces you to at least begin every subsequent note w/the same feel and setting you use on the starting note, and at the same time gradually and subtly changes the feel on the starting note as well. It pulls the original setting up or down as far as it will go. and helps create a mixed range into the regions where that original setting does not want to work. If you do it from strong settings on both sides of a troublesome range, it is even more effective. Just a note from a work in progress... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 11:43:23 -0700 From: Robert Elkjer Subject: Kai and JJ music Dear trombonist, Alessi Publications announces the release of the complete transcribed sheet music to the classic Impulse recording "The Great Kai and JJ, Brand New Swinging Together Again". Sheet music includes two trombones and full rhythm section, including all improvised trombone solos and chord symbols. Purchase sheet music only, or sheet music plus CD. Do not respond to this email. For more info, please visit http://www.slidearea.com Thanks, Slidearea.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 18:48:15 +0000 From: alan partis Subject: Re: the value of instruction At 06:13 PM 08/26/2002 +0000, Daniel Pliskin wrote: >>Ladies and Gentlemen, > >You on da wrong list, son! Sorry. My mamma raised a respectful son, but I know a rough house when I'm in one ;-) >If you're new to this list, you might not know how into long tones we are. I was born and raised on the Remmington exercises. My dad actually used to take lessons from Emory himself. I know no other way to pick up a horn. >PS. Oh, there is one question that you may NOT want to ask. You may not >want to ask a question like "What's the best slide lube?" That really gets >us going and, so far, we haven't agreed on an answer. For my part, I find that most commercial creams and oils seem to do more harm than good and leave my slide with more of a gummed up feeling. Whatever I use, I use it very sparingly but with a nice fine mist of water for best results. Sorry, couldn't resist putting in my two cents since you brought it up. - alan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 14:50:40 -0400 From: Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur Subject: Re: the value of instruction Hi Alan and list, Welcome back to the trombone! It all comes down to what you want out of the instrument and the experience of studying or playing the trombone. I agree with what your wallet says. Family commitments, house commitments etc. can put a real bind on our ability to spend for pure enjoyment. I have a student that takes lessons every two weeks for exactly those reasons, time away from family after a day at a busy job and the money spent taking those lessons. If what you want to do is get off on the right track and then take it from there on your own then a couple of lessons might do you some good. But beware that sometimes concepts are introduced that may require periodic checking in with the instructor to be sure that you are still on the right track. None of the professionals that I have ever talked to ever seems to give up learning or taking lessons. I look at it from the approach of a professional athlete; even the top athletes continue to have coaches. Another set of eyes (or ears in our case) can prove invaluable in spotting the things that we may be doing incorrectly or minor ways to improve or "game" may be spotted that we can't see ourselves. Hope that helps to make your decision. Peter Collins Bass Trombone Hamilton Philharmonic Orchestra alan partis wrote: > > At this point, what is the best approach for me to take regarding > lessons/instruction? Part of me says to find a good local teacher and take > weekly lessons. My wallet says to do only bi-weekly lessons at > most. After reading a few posts here lately, I'm wondering if I really > need to do more than take only one lesson or two from a good teacher and > learn how best to practice and be my own teacher. This approach seems > similar to what I would do if I wanted to improve my golf game actually -- > take a lesson or two with a pro and apply what I learn about practice > technique daily on the driving range. > > Any thoughts? > > - alan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 14:59:30 -0400 From: "Avery, Ray (232)" Subject: Re: the value of instruction Alan, I'm an example of what Dan P. is talking about. I played extensively up through college - was a music major - then just dabbled for a few years. The longest I went without touching the trombone was one year. I did that twice - the last time due to a softball accident. About 4 years ago I bought a new bass and started playing a little more seriously. Over the past several months, I have worked hard on the fundamentals and I believe I have gone way beyond my level from college. As Dan said, it is has become more fun the older I get. I find working on long tones, scales, lip slurs, etc. much more satisfying now. I used to take stuff way too seriously, including music. As I have gotten older - recently became a grandfather - I relax more and let the music flow. Before, my playing was stilted and forced. Now it is fun. I have seen firsthand the value of working on the fundamentals and am very happy with the results. It was frustrating at first knowing what I used to be able to do and having to work harder, now. But, the hard work has paid off. Ray Avery Director, Human Resources Harvard Custom Manufacturing, Inc. 607-687-7669 -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Pliskin [mailto:daniel_pliskin@HOTMAIL.COM] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 2:13 PM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Re: [TBN-L] the value of instruction "Two things are really important, when picking up an instrument that you haven't played for a while. First is to get back into shape, so that you can sound good. Second is that you make sure that you're having fun." DanP PS. Oh, there is one question that you may NOT want to ask. You may not want to ask a question like "What's the best slide lube?" That really gets us going and, so far, we haven't agreed on an answer. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 19:07:02 +0000 From: Daniel Pliskin Subject: Re: the value of instruction >>PS. Oh, there is one question that you may NOT want to ask. You may not >>want to ask a question like "What's the best slide lube?" That really >>gets >>us going and, so far, we haven't agreed on an answer. >For my part, I find that most commercial creams and oils seem to do more >harm than good and leave my slide with more of a gummed up >feeling. Whatever I use, I use it very sparingly but with a nice fine mist >of water for best results. Now THERE’S a bad set of products, if I ever saw some. Surely there’s no logic in trying to make money selling a product where the less you use the better. Now, if it went bad in a month, that might sell some product. But I’ve had the same tube of Trombotine for three years and I’ve probably got another year’s worth, left. That’s no way to make money. So let me get a rumor started, here. WE’D PAY ANYTHING (even more than some of us play for S-O-M), FOR A BETTER SLIDE LUBE! SO BRING ON THE VENTURE CAPITAL! THERE’S BIG MONEY TO BE MADE HERE, EVEN IN A QUESTIONABLE ECONOMY! DanP _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 15:10:13 -0500 From: Jeff Albert Subject: Bad slide cream joke : was RE: [TBN-L] the value of instruction -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of Daniel Pliskin Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 2:07 PM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU But I've had the same tube of Trombotine for three years and I've probably got another year's worth, left. ======================================================= You only get 4 years out of a tube of Trombotine?!?!? You either use too much, or clean your slide too often. Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 14:12:03 -0600 From: Dave Tall Subject: Trombone without a country >Youngsters in the mood to spurn the trombone >Musicians and teachers say the future of several instruments is at risk >as pupils choose cheaper options > >Nicholas Pyke >Monday August 26, 2002 >The Guardian > > >Its most famous exponent disappeared in mysterious circumstances. Now >the trombone itself could go the same way, according to teachers and >musicians. > >More than half a century after Glenn Miller lost radio contact over the >English Channel, youngsters are abandoning the instrument he helped to >popularise. > >The government's youth music advisers are so concerned that they are >preparing a national campaign to rescue the trombone and other >"endangered" instruments such as the bassoon and double bass, warning >that British orchestras might soon have to look abroad for players. > >The National Foundation for Youth Music, set up by ministers three years >ago, is holding urgent talks with the music industry, schools and local >authorities to raise funds for new instruments and teacher training. > >Christina Coker, head of the foundation, said: "We're attempting to >raise the profile of these instruments, which we are terming 'endangered >species'." > >She said the whole orchestral bass range was under pressure as children >and parents chose cheaper, less cumbersome and more soloistic >instruments such as the flute or clarinet. The oboe, a notoriously >temperamental instrument, is also said to be in trouble. > >New instruments, including small versions for younger players, and high >quality tuition were badly needed. > >"We have got to take care of the bottom end of the music scene. Too >often people look at the top end, at professional music, and say 'that's >all fine', and don't think enough about what's needed at the junior >level. > >"In 10 years' time, if we don't look after the quality and quantity of >bass players, there won't be enough to go around." > >Part of the problem is the lack of a big name to do for the trombone or >bassoon what James Galway did for the flute. The cartoon trombonist >called Douglas who stars in butter advertisements with Rimsky-Korsakov's >Flight of the Bumble Bee is a poor substitute. > >Roger Argente, bass trombonist with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra and >director of Bone Lab, an international project to encourage young >players, said: "There's a huge shortage of young players. It's a tragedy >really. The trombone is such a friendly instrument and fits into a range >of styles." > >However, fresh publicity could make an important difference, he said. >"I've been asked to 'do a Douglas' when I've visited schools." > >Developed from the medieval sackbut, the trombone is valued for its >mellow sound. Over the past century it has become a staple of jazz >ensembles and big bands as well as symphony orchestras. > >But it is comparatively expensive, unwieldy and loud. A good quality >trombone costs £1,000, the most basic bassoon is £3,000, and after years >of budget cuts many schools and local authorities have been unable to >buy new ones. Tuition has also suffered, with one-on-one lessons >disappearing in many areas. > >Jonathan Vaughan, a double bassist with the London Symphony Orchestra >and the new director of the National Youth Orchestra, blamed the parlous >state of school music services for the shortage of players. If parents >were forced to pay in full, he said, they were unlikely to accept a >trombone, bassoon or double bass when cheaper, lighter and more melodic >instruments were available. > >The shortage of players has even reached the leading music colleges, >which are reporting a lack of top quality students for bass instruments. > >Gavin Henderson, director of Trinity College of Music in London, said: >"There has always been a problem with the bassoon. They say that if you >own a bassoon, you can make a living. If you can play it, you can earn a >fortune. But the trombone and double bass are also becoming a problem." > >Nicholas Hunka, LSO bassoonist and professor at the Royal College of >Music, confirmed he was finding recruitment of undergraduates difficult. >He believed many talented musicians were preferring to remain as >amateurs: "The music profession is contracting almost visibly and I >think a bright 18-year-old might well decide to go to university instead >of music college." > Dave ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 14:26:54 -0600 From: Dennis Clason Subject: Re: Bad slide cream joke : was RE: [TBN-L] the value of instruction No kidding -- one tube of trombotine, one lifetime. Dennis > -----Original Message----- > From: Trombones and related issues forum. > [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU]On Behalf Of Jeff Albert > Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 2:10 PM > To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU > Subject: [TBN-L] Bad slide cream joke : was RE: [TBN-L] the value of > instruction > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Trombones and related issues forum. > [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of Daniel Pliskin > Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 2:07 PM > To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU > > But > I've had the same tube of Trombotine for three years and I've probably > got > another year's worth, left. > ======================================================= > > You only get 4 years out of a tube of Trombotine?!?!? You either use > too much, or clean your slide too often. > > Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 13:51:42 -0700 From: Rod Ellard Subject: Re: Trombone without a country Pretty poor argument and an inane reference to Glenn Miller, but the conclusion seems accurate enough. My observation, however, is that music generally seems to be losing its attraction. Mind you, this observation is based simply on the very few young people I see carrying musical instruments around and the lack of anyone under the age of 30 in most of the bands and orchestras I've played in the past few years. There used to be garage bands on every block. I haven't heard one for years. Rod ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 16:09:53 -0500 From: Jeff Albert Subject: Re: Trombone without a country -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of Rod Ellard Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 3:52 PM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Trombone without a country There used to be garage bands on every block. I haven't heard one for years. Rod =============================================== That's because kids don't keep their computers in the garage. Kids are still making "music", they are just using computers and drum machines. jva ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 14:13:29 -0700 From: Rod Ellard Subject: Re: the value of instruction ... > Any thoughts? > > > - alan > A couple. Maybe more .... First, part of the rationale for the weekly lesson routine must be to allow for the average 14 year olds' attention span (if there is such a thing) or the typical college degree requirements. As an adult (B Mus, 47 years old, didn't touch the horn between ages 25 to 35), if I needed that weekly kick in the pants from my teacher, I would have quit long ago. As it is, motivation comes and goes, but I keep at it, mostly because I enjoy it and partly because I am obsessive compulsive. Also, you can do it indoors, out of the weather. Most of my trombone lessons at college seemed to consist of working through various books. You can do that on your own, at least to a large degree. I think as long as you keep working on the basics, ie. some flexibility exercises, long tones, scales, as well as playing through the standard materials, eg. Rochut, Kopprasch etc. (or any repertoire, for that matter), along with some "real" playing, eg. weekly band practice, you will continue to improve. Maybe you have to ask yourself, what does this teacher know that I need to know? Improvisation? The required excerpts? Audition preparation? The best warmups? Tenor clef? Alto clef? I am considering taking a lesson with one of the local pros this fall. What do I hope to achieve? Well, I hope he'll point out any areas that I should work on in order to improve. I wonder if I am blowing properly because my throat becomes painful if I am playing a lot. My high range seems to have left town. Welcome back. Rod ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 14:19:14 -0700 From: Rod Ellard Subject: Re: Trombone without a country Actually this reminds me. I went to a music trade show about ten years ago. I didn't see any "instruments", just black boxes. What about the 'angry' young people? You mean no one wants to light up a Marshall and scream how tough they've got it, no one understands them and how love stinks? I still want to do that (and I'm 47)! Rod ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Albert" To: Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 2:09 PM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Trombone without a country > -----Original Message----- > From: Trombones and related issues forum. > [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of Rod Ellard > Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 3:52 PM > To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU > Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Trombone without a country > > There used to be garage bands on every block. I > haven't heard one for years. > > > Rod > =============================================== > > That's because kids don't keep their computers in the garage. Kids are > still making "music", they are just using computers and drum machines. > > jva ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 16:48:25 -0500 From: "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" Subject: Re: Smiling Erik: I am coming late to this discussion, but let me add a comment on God given dental structure and embouchure. Below are 3 graphics of teeth orientation: Uppers: | \ / Lowers: | | | These are not the only ones. I am the middle graphic. Normal orthodontial orientation is relatively straight up and down with upper outside of lowers (right-hand graphic). With this arrangement you can put the pencil straight without moving and lip. If you have the middle or left-handed dental structure, you will find you need to move a lip around a bit. With free buzzing, I have found I need to move my bottom lip in and out depending on the register, lower lip inward for high register, lower lip outward for lower register. I began experimenting with this after a comment from Don Lucas. He asked me to raise the horn (slide) up a bit to bring out the pedal notes. When I did this I found them to speak better and quicker with less effort. In order to keep lip contact with the mp as I raised the horn upward my lower lip had to move outward. My concept of this is that I am correcting for my dental angles. I am equalizing or at least changing the mp pressure on each lip. With my dental structure, even with light pressure, pressure would tend to be greater on the upper lip compared to the lower lip. In the upper register where everything is tight with firm corners, I can reduce the aperture by taking advantage of my overbite. There has been discussion of high note specialists who have space between their teeth or a gap which helps facilitate this. In the lower register, where relaxation is important, I must set the lip margins more in straight opposition, so I just my jaw forward to compensate. I could move the angle of the horn, but to me moving the horn around is less ideal. It works great right now. I look forward to hearing how others on the list deal with this. I have tried to use results as a guide. This is where it has taken me. My range has improved, my flexibility has improved in my opinion beyond just more hours of practice. Rick Marple San Antonio TX -----Original Message----- From: Gabriel Langfur [mailto:glangfur@YAHOO.COM] Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 7:03 PM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Smiling --- "Berggren, Erik" wrote: > If > I do the pencil > thing, I feel a need to push the lower lip out to keep > the pencil level, but > I would presume that to be a No..No. Erik, I've heard it taught that if you put the pencil between your front teeth you can determine approximately what degree of under- or over-bite you have, and therefore the basic angle at which your horn should rest. And I suppose if you're going to do the pencil between the lips exercise you would want to keep the pencil at that same angle. I don't think it's set in stone, and I also believe Sam's conclusion that the optimal angle of the horn to the face changes slightly in the different registers, but following your teeth is probably a good starting point. Gabe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 22:07:51 +0000 From: Daniel Pliskin Subject: Re: Bad slide cream joke : was RE: [TBN-L] the value of instruction Jeff, >>But I've had the same tube of Trombotine for three years and I've >> >>probably got another year's worth, left. >You only get 4 years out of a tube of Trombotine?!?!? You either use >too much, or clean your slide too often. I've used a lot of it, because I'm always lubing up a trombone, to test it out. Then I go back to working on the slide, only to lube it up again, when I'm done with the work. I can lube the same slide half a dozen times, before I decide that the slide is good enough to play for a while. Invariably, after playing a trombone for a week, I notice something else that "needs" work and I'm back into using more Trombotine. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 18:08:09 -0400 From: "jhfloyd@earthlink.net" Subject: Re: More about Teele stuff (was: Further praise for Phil Teele) P.S. I've been messing w/it inverted, too. It's harder to use in the higher ranges because they are tiring, but...same concept, same kind of results. ===== This is why Phil had me doing 2-3 sets of 20-30 in the low register and only 2 sets of 12 in the upper register. The notes simply last longer, and it is more strenuous playing, than the pedal stuff. But it does work! Jay -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 22:15:20 +0000 From: Daniel Pliskin Subject: Re: Bad slide cream joke : was RE: [TBN-L] the value of instruction >No kidding -- one tube of trombotine, one lifetime. See. I warned you Alan, not to bring up slide lube. Now look what “you’ve” done! OK, OK, I was a slide lube lush, for a while, back in the early days. My trombone would quickly start to smell musty and I’d clean it inside and out. Then I discovered that if you leave your trombone on a stand and hang your outer slide on the inner slide cross-member, with the water valve held open with a pencil or pen, it will dry out and the musty smell will go away. But hey, it’s a cheaper addiction than most, so I’m still ahead of the game. AND, at least it's not S-O-M. OOPS! Did I say that. I'm sorry. I'm really, really sorry. DanP _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 17:26:22 -0500 From: Corliss Subject: Re: Bad slide cream joke : was RE: [TBN-L] the value of instruction Lifetime? I'm 70. I have to figure out to whom I am going to will my trombotine. I purchased two tubes several years ago. I'm wondering for how many generations they will last. Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Clason" To: Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 3:26 PM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Bad slide cream joke : was RE: [TBN-L] the value of instruction > No kidding -- one tube of trombotine, one lifetime. > > Dennis > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Trombones and related issues forum. > > [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU]On Behalf Of Jeff Albert > > Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 2:10 PM > > To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU > > Subject: [TBN-L] Bad slide cream joke : was RE: [TBN-L] the value of > > instruction > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Trombones and related issues forum. > > [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of Daniel Pliskin > > Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 2:07 PM > > To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU > > > > But > > I've had the same tube of Trombotine for three years and I've probably > > got > > another year's worth, left. > > ======================================================= > > > > You only get 4 years out of a tube of Trombotine?!?!? You either use > > too much, or clean your slide too often. > > > > Jeff > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 16:02:21 -0700 From: Randy Fendrick Subject: State of Music today!!! I was reading a review or rather report in the local newspaper of a Rock Concert (they use the term loosely) that was given here yesterday and the reporter mentioned that the now-popular request by male-fronted bands (again I use the term loosely) for female audience members to bear their breasts, he commented that many members of the audience thought it rather distasteful. Trombone content, one 15 year old female commented that, "If you were any kind of real musician, you wouldn't need to be paid in (breasts)." I couldn't have said it better!!!! I guess that kind of explains the shape of music today!! no pun intended! -Randy Fendrick- Bakersfield Symphony Orchestra Southside Chicago Seven ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 18:55:32 -0400 From: john burton Subject: Re: Bad slide cream joke : was RE: [TBN-L] the value of instruction Harumph... My 5-year-old Ponds Cold Cream somehow got crushed in the latest move 'cross country. Sounds like a good excuse to tryout Trombotine; except I'm somewhat unhappy about paying $5.48 for a 1.5oz tube, and then paying $5.50 to ship it. None of the local music houses carry anything but "some kind of slide oil".. Where's one go for a tube of this stuff I keep hearing about? Harumph!! -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of Daniel Pliskin Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 6:08 PM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Bad slide cream joke : was RE: [TBN-L] the value of instruction Jeff, >>But I've had the same tube of Trombotine for three years and I've >> >>probably got another year's worth, left. >You only get 4 years out of a tube of Trombotine?!?!? You either use >too much, or clean your slide too often. I've used a lot of it, because I'm always lubing up a trombone, to test it out. Then I go back to working on the slide, only to lube it up again, when I'm done with the work. I can lube the same slide half a dozen times, before I decide that the slide is good enough to play for a while. Invariably, after playing a trombone for a week, I notice something else that "needs" work and I'm back into using more Trombotine. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 18:34:12 -0700 From: Robert Elkjer Subject: apologies Dear Trombonist, A couple folks have contacted me to let me know they were annoyed about receiving multiple emails about the J and K music. My apologies for this screwup. Several folks in our organization sent out mass emails (without realizing), plus I had a computer screwup and wound up sending twice. Advertisements, even about trombone music, are still advertisements and can be annoying to the recipient. We'll try to be a bit more organized in the future! Thanks, Robert Elkjer, Alessi Publications ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 22:04:24 -0400 From: Steve Beck Subject: Re: apologies I am one who does not want to be bombarded by advertisements. However, I do not feel that is the case with Mr. Elkjer. I feel he has simply informed us of something and left it to that. In addition, I remember several "gifts" to the list from Mr. Elkjer including a wonderful trombone quartet arrangement of "America the Beautiful" that was well received at our community band concert last spring. -Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Elkjer" To: Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 9:34 PM Subject: [TBN-L] apologies > Dear Trombonist, > > A couple folks have contacted me to let me know they were annoyed about > receiving multiple emails about the J and K music. My apologies for > this screwup. Several folks in our organization sent out mass emails > (without realizing), plus I had a computer screwup and wound up sending > twice. > > Advertisements, even about trombone music, are still advertisements and > can be annoying to the recipient. We'll try to be a bit more organized > in the future! > > Thanks, > > Robert Elkjer, Alessi Publications > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 21:07:44 -0500 From: Corliss Subject: Re: the value of instruction ----- Original Message ----- From: "alan partis" To: Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 1:48 PM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] the value of instruction > At 06:13 PM 08/26/2002 +0000, Daniel Pliskin wrote: > >>Ladies and Gentlemen, > > > >You on da wrong list, son! > > Sorry. My mamma raised a respectful son, but I know a rough house when I'm > in one ;-) > > >If you're new to this list, you might not know how into long tones we are. > > I was born and raised on the Remmington exercises. My dad actually used to > take lessons from Emory himself. I know no other way to pick up a horn. I think that the difference between long tones as emphasized here by Teele, Sam, Caruso and others is that these individuals think of long tones as a form of calisthenics as opposed to a type of warm up. Teele requires an hour of long tones for a student who starts to study with him. I once had a session with Remington's son, Dave, who plays trombone. I told him that I tried to do long tones for a half hour a day. His response was that this was too long. Richard ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 21:22:37 -0500 From: Corliss Subject: Re: Trombone without a country ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Albert" To: Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 4:09 PM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Trombone without a country > -----Original Message----- > From: Trombones and related issues forum. > [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of Rod Ellard > Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 3:52 PM > To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU > Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Trombone without a country > > There used to be garage bands on every block. I > haven't heard one for years. > > > Rod > =============================================== > > That's because kids don't keep their computers in the garage. Kids are > still making "music", they are just using computers and drum machines. > > jva Where I live a garage band is assumed to a kids getting together to play rock music. A local music store has a day committed to garage bands and they are all teenagers playing rock. Richard > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 00:49:29 -0500 From: "D.J. Kennedy" Subject: Re: apologies thought it was fun !!!!!!!!!!! trombone spam !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thats some incredible software and a great list too !!!!!! beyond a shameless plug Robert Elkjer wrote: > Dear Trombonist, > > A couple folks have contacted me to let me know they were annoyed about > receiving multiple emails about the J and K music. My apologies for > this screwup. Several folks in our organization sent out mass emails > (without realizing), plus I had a computer screwup and wound up sending > twice. > > Advertisements, even about trombone music, are still advertisements and > can be annoying to the recipient. We'll try to be a bit more organized > in the future! > > Thanks, > > Robert Elkjer, Alessi Publications ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 03:50:58 +0000 From: Daniel Pliskin Subject: Re: the value of instruction > > >If you're new to this list, you might not know how into long tones > > > >we are. > > I was born and raised on the Remmington exercises. My dad actually > > >used to take lessons from Emory himself. I know no other way to > > > pick >up a horn. >Teele requires an hour of long tones for a student who starts to study > >with him. I once had a session with Remington's son, The last time I took a lesson, my teacher talked about long tones as being like isometric exercises. Whereas long low tones, may well be a good warm-up, long high tones are definitely not good for warming up. But they are very tiring, which leads me to believe that they’re a great facial exercise. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 23:39:24 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee Subject: Re: Trombone without a country At 01:51 PM 8/26/2002 -0700, Rod Ellard wrote: >My observation, however, is that music generally seems to be losing its >attraction. Mind you, this observation is based simply on the very few >young people I see carrying musical instruments around Look out on the marching field. You'll find them there. I guess the schools think their mission is to prepare students to be soldiers, because that sure doesn't help them with their music. I received a distress call today from a lady who has two kids in high school who are serious about the clarinet and french horn. They just learned that the school has eliminated all instrumental music except for marching band. Fortunately we have started some programs that can accommodate these kids. But we had designed these as enrichment programs, not to take the place of music education in the schools. ------------------------------ End of TROMBONE-L Digest - 25 Aug 2002 to 26 Aug 2002 (#2002-44) ****************************************************************