Subject: TROMBONE-L Digest - 19 Aug 2002 to 20 Aug 2002 (#2002-38) There are 35 messages totalling 1415 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. TROMBONE-L - Info needed about tbone 2. Click Tracks (6) 3. trombones and stuff for sale.cheap (2) 4. Dalcroze Eurhythmics was Re: Playing on the Beat (2) 5. [TROMBONE-L] Teaching time (3) 6. Arranger F. Dutton 7. Larsson Concertino 8. Dalcroze Eurhythmics 9. Another Forum, no bone content though. (2) 10. click tracks (3) 11. Internet Recital (2) 12. Mini Bb Sousaphone on E-Bay 13. Earth Wind And Fire 14. Virtual unreality (was:Re: [TBN-L] click tracks) (3) 15. The World is Waiting for a Sunrise 16. "The Music Man" in Denver (2) 17. [TPIN] The World is Waiting for a Sunrise 18. P.D.Q. Bach (2) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 22:34:24 -0700 From: westlund Subject: TROMBONE-L - Info needed about tbone I recently acquired a King Tempo tbone. The serial number dates it to the early '70's. Is this instrument closer to a student model or a step-up model? I think the bell is nickel silver plated and it has a rather small bore. Plays well, though, especially for a "beginner" like me. Thanx! Mark Westlund ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 09:49:39 +0100 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: Click Tracks From: > In the other time/rhythm threads the term "click track" has been mentioned > several times. > > As far as I know, I've never used one . > > What is a Click Track? Is that the real name or a slang term? Are they > something new or an old concept I've just not had to use? Click tracks have been used in the movie industry for a long time. On the sound stage, only the conductor hears/sees the clicks. The orchestra hopefully follows the conductor. Thereby, the music is synchronized with the action on screen. Especially useful for fight scenes and all those Tom and Gerry 'toons you used to watch as a kid. Unfortunately, used now in the recording studio, tho' the whole band is supposed to listen to them. Maybe OK for recording disco shit, but absolutely useless for playing swing charts and as Sam has mentioned, clavé beats. > I have an image of a metronome clicking away in an earphone, is that close > to what this is? Absolutely. > And if so, how in the world do you do it on trombone, the > gooseneck gets in the way of wearing headphones for me? You can wear a headset that has the phone removed on the gooseneck side, or as Dan has mentioned, an in-the-ear piece. > Enquiring minds want to know. And if I can use it in church, I will! Praise de Lawd, A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 06:17:54 -0500 From: Charles Levine Subject: trombones and stuff for sale.cheap Conn Director about 15 years old in good condition with good case $105 = ppd King 2b about 35 years old in fair condition with fair case $275 ppd Elliot MPC cup sbJ new $25 ppd Elliot MPC cub LB L new $25 ppd Elliot Shank (for tenor) J8 new $15 ppd Elliot Shank L8 new $20 ppd Jupiter 6 1/2 AL (tenor shank) used but good $6.50 ppd Elliot LT E cup used but good $15 ppd Elliot Rim 100 gold used but good $15 ppd Elliot E6E tenor shank used but good $15 ppd King Duo Gravis (1973) double rotor w/case excellent condition $850 = ppd ALL OF THE ABOVE ARE GUARANTEED TO SATISFY YOU!!! THEY MAY BE RETURNED = WITHIN TWO WEEKS AND YOUR MONEY WILL BE REFUNDED (LESS SHIPPING) Tenor sax - Selmer - 40 years old in excellent condition - Ducoff MPC - = Tray-pak case in good condition $2100 ppd CHARDY@TOTCON.COM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 13:45:56 +0200 From: Anders Carlsson Subject: Re: trombones and stuff for sale.cheap chardy@totcon.com writes: >King 2b about 35 years old in fair condition with fair >case $275 ppd Whats´the serial number on this horn? /Anders Carlsson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 08:01:38 -0400 From: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL Subject: Dalcroze Eurhythmics was Re: Playing on the Beat Gabe, I for one would be very interested in your experiences. When I first heard Dalcroze mentioned I did some websearches (not being near a real library at the time) and found nothing beyond sales hype, which kind of put me off. Was there a good text, or is this one of those "personal instruction only" things? Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 20:01:17 -0700 From: Gabriel Langfur Subject: Dalcroze Eurhythmics was Re: Playing on the Beat Hey all, During my first year of college I took an intensive course in Dalcroze Eurhythmics that revolutionized my rhythmic skills. I don't have time to go into detail now, but I wondered if anyone else out there has ever experienced Eurhythmics - a form of rhythmic training based entirely on body motion, and when done right can be incredibly powerful. More later, Gabe ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 10:53:41 EDT From: Bear0Bones@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Click Tracks Hi, The click tracks used in the film studios in L.A. are now computer generated. This method allows for instant flexibility in case the music needs to be changed. In the distant past, the click track was actually a piece of blank film stock into which the music editor would punch holes according to the composer's tempo markings, and it would be played through the sound heads of a 35mm "mag" recorder. The holes made a "pop" or a click as they passed the sound heads. 35mm film runs at a constant rate of 24 frames per second. So if you put a hole every 24 frames, you would get mm=60. A hole every 12 frames would be mm=120. And they also could subdivide frames by 8 sprocket holes per frame. I think the composer Alfred Newman came up with this system. By the way, as long as I have worked in the studio business, the entire orchestra wears the headphones, not just the conductor. In L.A. we use single sided phones (some people bring their own smaller, in-the-ear types) and I think the New York studios use double sided phones, which can be a problem when playing bass trombone. In the record business, clicks are sometimes used but not as often. My 2 1/2 cents worth . . . Bill Reichenbach ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 10:13:41 -0500 From: Chris McClure Subject: Re: [TROMBONE-L] Teaching time Starting off with the basics is good. You can make them familiar with it. For the rhythms, break them down into simple words. Many of us remember Ta and Ti -Ti for quarter notes and a pair of eighth notes. For triplets, the word pine-ap-ple is very good. And for quintuplets, "University" is a goood one....but never saw it in a choir piece yet. My daughter's orchestra warmups always include "Missippi Hotdog" Mississipi for four sixteenth notes, Hotdog for two eighth notes, on each note of the scales.. Most of these ideas came from my Elementary Music Ed Class. I have misplaced the text temporarily, cannot even give you a title Hope to post it soon. But, whoever suggested dividing the group into teams and "clapping things off", that idea was great. At first, it will be just like it is now, no improvement, but wait and see. If you can get the group past listening for each other...even the ones who can't read music can count to four....it will be a grand success. But better to approach slowly than to accidentally get it all right and the perfection never occurs again. Mandatory Trombone Content: Trombones were the preferred instruments in the church throughout its origins. The stringed instruments were too quiet for the choir to hear as they were singing. God bless, and have a nice day! Chris Ann ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:33:44 -0400 From: Chuck De Paolo Subject: Re: Arranger F. Dutton For mechanical license to record, you should contact copyright owners of "Let is Snow" and "Here Comes Santa Claus," and not the arranger, F. Dutton. In all likelihood, Dutton does not own the copyright to the arrangements, but rather either received permission to arrange, or made the arrnagements without permission. In Music, ---Charles De Paolo, Owner Ensemble Publications P.O. Box 32 Ithaca, NY 14851-0032 607.279.1456 (phone) 607.273.4655 (fax/evening phone) EnsPub@aol.com (E-Mail) http://members.aol.com/EnsPub (Website) ----- Original Message ----- From: Brad Howland To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2002 6:42 PM Subject: [TBN-L] Arranger F. Dutton Let me send this again. I think I messed it up the first time: My trombone quartet is working on a Christmas CD, and we have two scrawled-out, photocopied arrangements that appear to have been done by somebody named "F. Dutton." The two songs are "Let it Snow" and "Here Comes Santa Claus." Does anybody know who this person is and how he/she can be contacted? We'd like to get permission and pay for the mechanical rights to record these songs. Regards, Brad Howland ************************************************************ Trombone, Web Design, Income Tax, Brass Music "Specialization is for insects." ...Robert Heinlein E Mail: bhowland@shaw.ca Web Site: http://www.musicforbrass.com/ The Brass Tacks: http://www.musicforbrass.com/subTacks.html ************************************************************ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:36:14 -0400 From: Chuck De Paolo Subject: Re: Larsson Concertino > I'm not sure why either...in his case it might be "because > he can (at least most days), and besides, Christian > Lindberg does it." Interesting justification. Perhaps then we should all trash a perfectly good Benge 190 on our next recital, because after all, "we can" and "that's what Lindberg did." --Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: Gabriel Langfur To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 10:44 PM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Larsson Concertino --- Anders Carlsson wrote: > glangfur@yahoo.com writes: > Do any of you know of any precedent for doing some octave > transpositions in the Larsson? In particular, the second > statement of the second movement theme? > > Why? I had a short-term student last week whose long-term teacher had advised him to play the second statement up an octave. I didn't want to contradict him without any research. I'm not sure why either...in his case it might be "because he can (at least most days), and besides, Christian Lindberg does it." Gabe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:52:09 -0400 From: Chuck De Paolo Subject: Re: Dalcroze Eurhythmics When I first started attending Ithaca College in the 1985, there was a firmly established (emphasis on "firmly") Dalcroze curriculum here. I was one of the lucky ones who did not have to partake in the daily silliness (I passed out of the class as I was a transfer student). I was however interested to know what it was all about, and from time to time would observe the class. My suspicions were confirmed as I watched dozens of students swooshing around the room in stocking feet clapping circles in the air. La-di-dah-di-dah. Somehow this was supposed to make everyone play more musically in wind ensemble later in the day. When asked, most of my classmates viewed the class as a joke, a waste of time, "bore-ithmics" etc. Any decent private instructor could impart the same musical knowledge without all the nonsense. Personally, I figured if it was that essential, we'd see it being taught en masse at Eastman, Julliard, NEC etc. Some of my classmates took a different stance, one that is probably more on target - they felt the class was much better suited to a small number of students who were really interested in taking the Dalcroze approach (there was even a Dalcroze "team" or hardcore students that went on tour). This made sense. However, most students were not interested, and so the class was taken about as seriously as high school gym. The Dalcroze curriculum was terminated in the late 1980's in favor of other essential music school classes, you know, things like sight-singing and the like. In Music, ---Charles De Paolo ----- Original Message ----- From: Gabriel Langfur To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 11:01 PM Subject: [TBN-L] Dalcroze Eurhythmics was Re: Playing on the Beat Hey all, During my first year of college I took an intensive course in Dalcroze Eurhythmics that revolutionized my rhythmic skills. I don't have time to go into detail now, but I wondered if anyone else out there has ever experienced Eurhythmics - a form of rhythmic training based entirely on body motion, and when done right can be incredibly powerful. More later, Gabe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 17:54:02 +0200 From: Anders Carlsson Subject: Another Forum, no bone content though. This link is from another web forum like the OTJ but mainly for recording engineers, mixing engineers and likes. It's quite long but entertaining.Thank God that I haven't been on any gig like this one. http://www.prosoundweb.com/recpit/viewtopic.php?t=2176 /Anders Carlsson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 16:21:01 +0000 From: Daniel Pliskin Subject: Re: Click Tracks >In the record business, clicks are sometimes used but not as often. Bill, Recording a CD without a click-track is a thing of the past. With in-the-ear monitors, doing a live performance without a click-track is soon to be a thing of the past. Here’s why: When you start out with a MIDI click-track, the music is instantly divided into measures and can be edited like a word document. The guitarist screwed up the second bridge? No problem, replace that part with a copy of the first bridge. The drummer was late on his/her last beat? No problem, move it in. As long as the parts can be isolated on separate tracks, each can be non-linearly edited. Sounds like science fiction? It’s here. It works. And the only thing that still hasn’t caught up with the times is that the mix engineer’s name still isn’t on the front cover of the CD. But I’d be willing to believe that buying Rock, by a specific mix engineer, is going to be a lot like knowing that the jazz is going to be good, because it was recorded by Rudy Van Gelder. And for those of you that don’t know about Rudy, if you’re into straight-ahead jazz, check out where your favorite recordings were recorded. Chances are really good that they were all recorded in his studio, in New Jersey. It’s hard to know whether he had the best equipment, the best room, the best drugs, what? But he definitely had what it took to get those guys/ and gals down on tape. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:41:58 -0500 From: Charles Levine Subject: click tracks Most of the "big band" sounds you hear on commercials are done with a = click track, a rhythm section, a trombone player that doubles on bass = bone, a trumpet and a sax player that plays all the saxes. The parts = over -dubbed with a click track. Many of the backgrounds on vocal numbers are produced the same way.=20 The ability to over-dub with a click track is almost a must for a = working musician (in NY anyway). Charlie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 10:15:59 -0700 From: Brad Howland Subject: Re: Internet Recital Nope. This Kevin Thompson is the Principal Trombone of the Malaysian Philharmonic Orchestra. Brad > In your earlier post you mentioned arranger Kevin Thompson. There is a > trombonist by that name living in Scotland. Could it be the same guy? > > Cheers, A. > > Adrian Drover > ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk > Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 17:16:01 +0000 From: Daniel Pliskin Subject: Re: click tracks I forgot to mention that tempo and intonation problems can now be corrected, as well, using digital signal processing. It's a whole different world, DanP _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 13:18:34 -0400 From: Lawrence Zaidan Subject: Mini Bb Sousaphone on E-Bay --------------DE512E8575625CB4324322DA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear listers, If you are interested, I have a rare, mini BBb Sousaphone on E-Bay. (Don't be misled by the banner stating that it is in the key of Eb). 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What happened to the horn section with that band? Seemed to be a major part of the sound and it just got less and less. You play any solos on one of the discs? Regards (and respect), Steve C ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 16:14:34 -0500 From: "D.J. Kennedy" Subject: Re: [TROMBONE-L] Teaching time man i guess i am gonna qquit preachin to the choir now !!!! what about the new stuff thats happenin ? are the kids with it ????? Chris McClure wrote: > Starting off with the basics is good. You can make them familiar with it. > > For the rhythms, break them down into simple words. Many of us remember Ta > and Ti -Ti for quarter notes and a pair of eighth notes. > For triplets, the word pine-ap-ple is very good. And for quintuplets, > "University" is a goood one....but never saw it in a choir piece yet. > My daughter's orchestra warmups always include "Missippi Hotdog" Mississipi > for four sixteenth notes, Hotdog for two eighth notes, on each note of the > scales.. > > Most of these ideas came from my Elementary Music Ed Class. I have misplaced > the text temporarily, cannot even give you a title Hope to post it soon. > > But, whoever suggested dividing the group into teams and "clapping things > off", that idea was great. At first, it will be just like it is now, no > improvement, but wait and see. > > If you can get the group past listening for each other...even the ones who > can't read music can count to four....it will be a grand success. But > better to approach slowly than to accidentally get it all right and the > perfection never occurs again. > > Mandatory Trombone Content: > Trombones were the preferred instruments in the church throughout its > origins. The stringed instruments were too quiet for the choir to hear as > they were singing. > > God bless, and have a nice day! > > Chris Ann ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:49:32 -0700 From: Steve Gamble Subject: Re: Another Forum, no bone content though. Mixerman himself seems to be the primary source of his problems. Steve Gamble, Librarian Tucson Symphony Orchestra 2175 N. 6th Ave. Tucson, AZ 85705 (520) 792-9155 x118 (520) 792-9314 fax (520) 991-7056 cel sgamble@tucsonsymphony.org -----Original Message----- From: Anders Carlsson [SMTP:anders.carlsson@GFS.GU.SE] Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 8:54 AM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: [TBN-L] Another Forum, no bone content though. This link is from another web forum like the OTJ but mainly for recording engineers, mixing engineers and likes. It's quite long but entertaining.Thank God that I haven't been on any gig like this one. http://www.prosoundweb.com/recpit/viewtopic.php?t=2176 /Anders Carlsson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 16:24:37 -0500 From: "D.J. Kennedy" Subject: Re: Click Tracks hey dude !!!!!!!!!! whuzzzup ??? so does that clicking stay on time with what you guys are playing ?? i guess you kinda get used to hearing it not hearing it ????? so its a way they can cut and edit the pieces so does the tempo click in sync or not ??? what have you been recording lately ?i know wyld man s movie blood babies came out ----- -----we been getting lotsa rain and the tomatos finally kicked in maybe they outta use those clicks on the choirs --- you sure kicked bbootski at the itf !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bear0Bones@AOL.COM wrote: > Hi, > The click tracks used in the film studios in L.A. are now computer generated. > This method allows for instant flexibility in case the music needs to be > changed. In the distant past, the click track was actually a piece of blank > film stock into which the music editor would punch holes according to the > composer's tempo markings, and it would be played through the sound heads of > a 35mm "mag" recorder. The holes made a "pop" or a click as they passed the > sound heads. 35mm film runs at a constant rate of 24 frames per second. So > if you put a hole every 24 frames, you would get mm=60. > A hole every 12 frames would be mm=120. And they also could subdivide frames > by 8 sprocket holes per frame. I think the composer Alfred Newman came up > with this system. > By the way, as long as I have worked in the studio business, the entire > orchestra wears the headphones, not just the conductor. In L.A. we use > single sided phones (some people bring their own smaller, in-the-ear types) > and I think the New York studios use double sided phones, which can be a > problem when playing bass trombone. > In the record business, clicks are sometimes used but not as often. > My 2 1/2 cents worth . . . > Bill Reichenbach ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 15:47:02 -0400 From: sabutin Subject: Virtual unreality (was:Re: [TBN-L] click tracks) >I forgot to mention that tempo and intonation problems can now be corrected, >as well, using digital signal processing. > >It's a whole different world, > >DanP > ============== Same world, different technology. Recording musicians have had a pet saying for decades...sarcastic... "Don't worry; we'll fix it in the mix." It's sarcastic because it never really gets fixed in the mix, or anywhere else for that matter. Computer people also have a saying...GIGO. Garbage In, Garbage Out. All that this technology really does is serve to degrade the product in the end. It's like fast food...sure, you can get it quickly, conveniently and cheaply, and it is very consistent. But...it has little or no nutritional value. Consistent, but w/no consistency. Why don't the computer aided pop songs of the last 15 years or so last? They're no less "serious" than say Little Richard or Johnny Cash, really, but they simply have no reality behind them. They are mirages. What was the name of the duo that got busted for lip-synching during their concerts some years ago? Oh yes, Milli Vanilli. They were excoriated as fakes, but in reality they were prophets. (Or is that word spelled profits?) Now we have a virtual President, corporations w/mirages masquerading as accountants...virtual reality indeed. Most of this society has become all show, no go. I got your click track, right here...!!! AND your mix. Workers of the world...realify!!! William Burroughs said, at the end of his amazingly revolutionary life, "The revolution will come from ignoring others out of existence." Just ignore this stuff, as much as you are able and still make a living. In the end, just like mainstream politics, it will be simply ignored out of existence. All these voters that don't vote? They're prophets, too. In the '60s,there was a tag line "What if they threw a war and nobody showed up?" We're getting there... S. P.S. If Louis Armstrong were to try to play the way he did for a major label today, they would run him through the virtual (w)ringer and he'd come out sounding like Chris Botti or some other fake jazz player. Miles, too. In tune. Like mall music. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 20:47:25 +0100 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: click tracks From: "Charles Levine" >Most of the "big band" sounds you hear on commercials are done with a click track, a rhythm section, a trombone player that doubles on bass bone, a trumpet and a sax player that plays all the saxes. The parts over -dubbed >with a click track. Why book 3 guys to play the horn parts? Can't they find someone who can play all the instruments. Maybe he could just play the lead lines and the computer could fill in the underneath parts. Why book a player at all? Let the computer play all the parts thru' a crappy sound module. Why book a rhythm section? You can get all those sounds on a Yamaha/Roland/Korg/KrapNoyz module. Hey, maybe the computer could write the score too, just type in the chord changes into Band-in-a-Box. Hey, do we really need a producer and sound engineer? Maybe the guy who is able to dub all the parts could also record and mix the whole thing at home on his lap-top. >The ability to over-dub with a click track is almost a must for a working musician (in >NY anyway). There's a working musician in NY? Surely there must be a way of making him redundant. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 15:54:26 EDT From: BJMCHAFFIE@AOL.COM Subject: The World is Waiting for a Sunrise My mother located the music for this piece. It was copyrighted in 1919 by Chappel Harms, Inc. The composer was Ernest Seitz and words by Ernest Lockhart. Her copy is in two flats. Chappel Harms at that time was at 185 Madison Ave. NY and Melbourne, Sidney and London. I believe there is still an Harms Music Company that is in existence,. However this looks like it could be in the public domain and perhaps is available from the Library of Congress. Let me know how the search comes out. beldon wade ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 13:12:32 -0700 From: Gabriel Langfur Subject: Re: "The Music Man" in Denver --- David Oliver wrote: > From an article in the > paper today, I > do have two names: > Brian Troiano > Darrell Hendricks > I know Brian from Boston, where he went to grad school, and still returns when the show is down. Very fine player - I'm always happy when he's subbing in one of my orchestras. I'm pretty sure the bass trombone player is John Baker, who also went to grad school in Boston. Gabe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 16:16:44 EDT From: BJMCHAFFIE@AOL.COM Subject: Re: [TPIN] The World is Waiting for a Sunrise The person wishing to have this was reckeuph@juno.com. After I provided this info for the net I did a search for harms music and came up with a site that contains WWI midi files of a whole bunch of those great numbers. That site was www.melodylane.net/ww1.htm. The ones on that site are also in the public domain. beldon wade ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 13:46:01 -0700 From: Gabriel Langfur Subject: Re: Dalcroze Eurhythmics was Re: Playing on the Beat --- richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL wrote: > Was there a good text, or is this one of those "personal > instruction only" > things? I never saw a text. We worked intensively with a single instructor, about 3-4 hours a day for 3 weeks in a group of twelve (no larger). Everything is based on and related to body motion. We started with walking around the room barefoot (best done in a dance studio of course), and relating subdivisions to the pulse of our steps. When we clapped, we described circles in continuous motion. When we tapped rhythms on our legs or chests, we described circles, making them larger or smaller for slower or faster tempi or subdivisions. We played with percussion instruments and even bouncing balls and other toys. We were eventually able to perform polyrhythms as true polyrhythms and not just memorized patterns, changing or switching them at will. By the end of the workshop, our group of 12 could stand in a large circle with our eyes closed, establish a slow pulse together (I'm talking something like 40 bpm), then stop clapping every beat, and with no visual or audio cue, CLAP TOGETHER IN UNISON EVERY 8 BEATS. Try that with your church choir, brass quintet, orchestra section, etc. and see how far you get. I'm sure I couldn't do the same today, but the experience sure gave me great tools for practicing difficult music. There is another aspect to the Dalcroze method that feels sort of like a waste of time to me, and that's when you start representing pieces of music with body motion. Useful for freeing your mind about phrasing I guess, but if you spend too much time on it isolated from actually performing music, starts to feel like bad, unskilled modern dance. I've thought about going back for more Eurhythmics training, particularly when faced with students who seem to have no internal pulse (one told me recently that it confuses him to tap his foot). Bring a qualified Dalcroze instructor to your choir 3 or 4 times and I bet you'll be amazed at what can happen. Gabe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 20:50:08 +0000 From: Daniel Pliskin Subject: Re: Virtual unreality (was:Re: [TBN-L] click tracks) Sam, First of all, AMEN. And especially: > All that this technology really does is serve to degrade the >product in the end. It's like fast food...sure, you can get it >quickly, conveniently and cheaply, and it is very consistent. >But...it has little or no nutritional value. //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// > Now we have a virtual President, corporations w/mirages >masquerading as accountants...virtual reality indeed. He's almost a real president. He's just a heartbeat away from being president. Maybe that's as real as presidents get, these days. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 17:01:56 -0400 From: sabutin Subject: Re: Virtual unreality (was:Re: [TBN-L] click tracks) >Sam, > >First of all, AMEN. > >And especially: > >> All that this technology really does is serve to degrade the >>product in the end. It's like fast food...sure, you can get it >>quickly, conveniently and cheaply, and it is very consistent. >>But...it has little or no nutritional value. > >//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// > >> Now we have a virtual President, corporations w/mirages >>masquerading as accountants...virtual reality indeed. > >He's almost a real president. He's just a heartbeat away from being >president. Maybe that's as real as presidents get, these days. > DanP Actually, I meant the "real" president. He is just a mirage, too...a puppet. S. > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 18:25:26 -0700 From: emrose79@PACBELL.NET Subject: Re: Internet Recital hmmm...according to a couple of his albums, he was probably both! Daniel Pliskin wrote: > > >no...not JS Bach.......you're thinking of his father PDQ Bach... > > Please, get your “facts” straight. PDQ was a great nephew of JS. > > DanP > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 18:32:15 -0700 From: emrose79@PACBELL.NET Subject: Re: P.D.Q. Bach I was, of course, speaking in jest. But....it's at Hoople?..not Hoopla?? well, no wonder no one heard of it when I mentioned it..I was talking about a different place!....All kidding aside, having a musical sense of humor, I've always been fond of PDQ's music. Ed "Peter W. Schroth" wrote: > > According to his biographer, Professor Peter Schickele of > the University of Southern North Dakota at Hoople, P.D.Q. > Bach was "without a doubt Johann Sebastian’s last and least > offspring." See > > http://www.schickele.com/pdqbio.htm > > Elsewhere, Prof. Schickele says, "He was the last and the > least of the great Johann Sebastian Bach's twenty-odd > children, and he was certainly the oddest." See > > http://www.schickele.com/profbio.htm > > Daniel Pliskin wrote: > > > > >no...not JS Bach.......you're thinking of his father PDQ Bach... > > > > Please, get your “facts” straight. PDQ was a great nephew of JS. > > > > DanP > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > > http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 20:42:57 -0500 From: Tom Izzo Subject: Re: P.D.Q. Bach Yes, Hoople! Peter teaches at the USNDH! Tom I was, of course, speaking in jest. But....it's at Hoople?..not Hoopla?? well, no wonder no one heard of it when I mentioned it..I was talking about a different place!....All kidding aside, having a musical sense of humor, I've always been fond of PDQ's music. Ed "Peter W. Schroth" wrote: > > According to his biographer, Professor Peter Schickele of > the University of Southern North Dakota at Hoople, P.D.Q. > Bach was "without a doubt Johann Sebastian’s last and least > offspring." See > > http://www.schickele.com/pdqbio.htm > > Elsewhere, Prof. Schickele says, "He was the last and the > least of the great Johann Sebastian Bach's twenty-odd > children, and he was certainly the oddest." See > > http://www.schickele.com/profbio.htm > > Daniel Pliskin wrote: > > > > >no...not JS Bach.......you're thinking of his father PDQ Bach... > > > > Please, get your “facts” straight. PDQ was a great nephew of JS. > > > > DanP > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > > http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 21:02:27 -0500 From: Bob Koester Subject: Re: Click Tracks Hi all, Thanks for your insight Bill. A local studio owner gave me a single-side= phone. I can't figure out how you would comfortably record on bass trom= bone without one. Best, Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: Bear0Bones@AOL.COM Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 10:12 AM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Click Tracks Hi, The click tracks used in the film studios in L.A. are now computer genera= ted. This method allows for instant flexibility in case the music needs to be changed. In the distant past, the click track was actually a piece of bl= ank film stock into which the music editor would punch holes according to the composer's tempo markings, and it would be played through the sound heads= of a 35mm "mag" recorder. The holes made a "pop" or a click as they passed = the sound heads. 35mm film runs at a constant rate of 24 frames per second. = So if you put a hole every 24 frames, you would get mm=3D60. A hole every 12 frames would be mm=3D120. And they also could subdivide = frames by 8 sprocket holes per frame. I think the composer Alfred Newman came u= p with this system. By the way, as long as I have worked in the studio business, the entire orchestra wears the headphones, not just the conductor. In L.A. we use single sided phones (some people bring their own smaller, in-the-ear type= s) and I think the New York studios use double sided phones, which can be a problem when playing bass trombone. In the record business, clicks are sometimes used but not as often. My 2 1/2 cents worth . . . Bill ReichenbachGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http= ://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 23:18:21 EDT From: Edcox1@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Click Tracks RE: CLICK TRACKS In days long past, traveling shows such as Holiday on Ice used click tracks. Only the conductor wore headphones and he followed the click track, which included vocal music and sound effects. This was usually OK but got somewhat tenuous when we had three shows a day and he laced his coffee with brandy. Anyway, when changes were made in the show while on the road, changes had to be made in the click track. We accidentally caught them altering the band track using recorded cuts from our performances and keeping it a secret. Needless to say, the AF of M was not amused. Live music is no longer used and if anything needs to be fixed, it's done on a computer. Ed Cox ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 22:22:31 -0600 From: David Oliver Subject: Re: "The Music Man" in Denver Yep, you are right. I found my program, and here's the trombone line-up: Trombone: Darrell Hendricks Trombone/Euphonium: Brian Troiano Tuba/Trombone: Jonathan Baker David Oliver Broomfield, CO USA Gabriel Langfur wrote: > --- David Oliver wrote: > > From an article in the > > paper today, I > > do have two names: > > Brian Troiano > > Darrell Hendricks > > > > I know Brian from Boston, where he went to grad school, and > still returns when the show is down. Very fine player - I'm > always happy when he's subbing in one of my orchestras. I'm > pretty sure the bass trombone player is John Baker, who > also went to grad school in Boston. > > Gabe > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs > http://www.hotjobs.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 23:39:05 -0500 From: Chris McClure Subject: Re: [TROMBONE-L] Teaching time I have to wonder if some things they do in orchestra [like "Mississippi Hotdog", etc.] come from the Suzuki Method since a great deal of string students do start young--the kids who use it do not use music or read rhythms for a few years. They gain confidence in their playing first, then look at the funny black specks. And there are the other methods--Kodaly, Curwen (hand signals for do re mi, etc) Dalcroze Eurythmics (movement and music) and Orff instruments. Consistency is going to be the factor that sticks the most. Since I haven't been out to teach yet, I will ask my sister who has taught elementary music for 8 years. Just curious...have you noticed that some choir music is printed out rhythmically--syllable by syllable in older editions (especially hymnals) and some are "typeset" in the modern way? That alone could scare someone in choir off really reading the music. I meant to refer you to a website when I posted last. www.rhythmmasters.org while it does pertain to band, much of it could help with the choir...definitely the counting games. Or the fact that it can be just a few minutes of the rehearsal yet get you results. Rick Moon is great for clarifying things. Some directors use the "uppy downy" method of counting. Sounds weird, but they swear by it. Again, consisitency. And when presenting new info, patience and time. When I get a band of my own I want to use Rhythm Masters and 100 Scales (harmonized), plus the Bach Chorales, for warmups. For now I'll be content to open my studio and teach my three students...beginners on piano, guitar and TROMBONE . Have a blessed, musical day! Chris Ann ----- Original Message ----- From: "D.J. Kennedy" > man i guess i am gonna qquit preachin to the choir now !!!! > what about the new stuff thats happenin ? > are the kids with it ????? > ------------------------------ End of TROMBONE-L Digest - 19 Aug 2002 to 20 Aug 2002 (#2002-38) ****************************************************************