Subject: TROMBONE-L Digest - 17 Aug 2002 to 18 Aug 2002 (#2002-36) There are 25 messages totalling 1205 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Robert Farnon-Caution! Men Swinging (2) 2. Trombonist in Sharkey's Machine (4) 3. Internet Recital (3) 4. Ever try to really swing w/a click track? (2) 5. Chet Baker Biography (3) 6. No Bones About It! Window Dressing? (JVC Jazz Festival commentary) 7. Bass Trombone Question (2) 8. 1912 slide tuningdual bore Olds. (trombone history) 9. "The Music Man" in Denver 10. Farm Town Band Concert - Experience (2) 11. 1912 slide tuningdual bore Olds. (trombone history)] 12. Chet Baker and jazz writers 13. Elkhart 8H on eBay 14. Chet Baker ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 01:05:14 -0400 From: Denver Seifried Subject: Robert Farnon-Caution! Men Swinging OK----List Members--need some help finding who played bass trombone on a very old album from the 1950's called "Caution! Men Swinging" by British arranger, Robert Farnon. The original album has been re-issued on a Spanish RCA Victor CD, by the same name. I went to Google, and found some of the session members (LA); however, no bass trombone. Seems as though Bob Enesvolden was on valve trombone; however, there was some very fine bass trombone playing on a track titled, "Just You, Just Me", and it just didn't sound like Bob Enesvolden on valve-bass trombone. Just kiddin'! It sure sounds like George Roberts and is from the right time period, when he would have been heavily involved in the studios of LA. This was another great track I heard on my local Time-Warner digital cable music/big band channel. This was some bass trombone playing, at its very best!!! Wow, what a sound! Denny Seifried Bass Trombone-Springfield (OH) Symphony & Dayton Jazz Orchestra Adjunct Trombone-Wittenberg Univ. Dept. of Music ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 01:26:22 -0500 From: Richard Johnson Subject: Trombonist in Sharkey's Machine I'm watching an early 1980's movie entitled Sharkey's Machine. In the background there is some killer trombone work.....especially a rendition of My Funny Valentine. Is it Frank Rosolino? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 09:27:44 +0100 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: Internet Recital From: "Brad Howland" > I videotaped myself playing Bach's "Flute Partita in D Minor," arranged by > Kevin Thompson, and put it on the Internet for all to see: > http://www.musicforbrass.com/brstacks/vol23/volume23.html Yuk. Where did you get those curtains? A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 12:00:14 +0100 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: Ever try to really swing w/a click track? From: "sabutin" > Ever try to really swing w/a click track? Yes Sam, it is an experience I prefer to forget. I was asked to arrange some big band charts and play on the sessions to back a would be singer. After consultation with the young producer and singer, I had a strong feeling they hadn't done this sort of thing before and asked for half of my fee up front. That's the best move I ever made. Turned up at the small studio. One mike. No screens. No music stands. Best of all, no bass player. Was told they would dub him on later. Producer seemed puzzled when I suggested that the bass player was the most important guy in a swing band. Session delayed one hour and a half while they got someone out of bed to come along with his bass. In the mean time, we ran through one or two charts. Three quarters of the trumpet section couldn't read. Lead player couldn't make the high notes. I suggest, due to the size of the room and lack of screening, that they record the rhythm section first and layer the other sections. Young producer says "No, we'll record a click track first". I say WHAT!!!£$%^&*()+??? He says "We always do it that way". The young sound engineer backed him up. Four hours later, after several breakdowns and blown out recording equipment, rhythm section understandably unable to work with headphone clicks, experienced players getting very fidgety and irate, looking at watches, nothing yet recorded. It really was the recording session from hell! A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 09:28:13 -0400 From: sabutin Subject: Re: Ever try to really swing w/a click track? >From: "sabutin" > >> Ever try to really swing w/a click track? > > >Yes Sam, it is an experience I prefer to forget. I was asked to arrange >some big band charts and play on the sessions to back a would be singer. >After consultation with the young producer and singer, I had a strong >feeling they hadn't done this sort of thing before and asked for half of my >fee up front. That's the best move I ever made. > >Turned up at the small studio. One mike. No screens. No music stands. >Best of all, no bass player. Was told they would dub him on later. >Producer seemed puzzled when I suggested that the bass player was the most >important guy in a swing band. Session delayed one hour and a half while >they got someone out of bed to come along with his bass. In the mean time, >we ran through one or two charts. Three quarters of the trumpet section >couldn't read. Lead player couldn't make the high notes. > >I suggest, due to the size of the room and lack of screening, that they >record the rhythm section first and layer the other sections. Young >producer says "No, we'll record a click track first". I say >WHAT!!!£$%^&*()+??? He says "We always do it that way". The young sound >engineer backed him up. > >Four hours later, after several breakdowns and blown out recording >equipment, rhythm section understandably unable to work with headphone >clicks, experienced players getting very fidgety and irate, looking at >watches, nothing yet recorded. > >It really was the recording session from hell! > >A. > >Adrian Drover >ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk >Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ================= Been there. Too many times. And not just in low level scenes, either. Film scores, jingles...even latin recording sessions. (Not many, thankfully.) One of the saddest things you will EVER hear is a good latin rhythm section trying to deal w/a click track. No matter which direction the clave is in..2-3 or 3-2...the click crosses up the clave in the 3 bar. For a real latin player who has been steeped in clave almost from birth, this is worse than a what happens when a jazz player hears someone clapping on 1 + 3. Much worse. Sometimes, however, a click is absolutely necessary for timing purposes...jingles, film... The only suggestion I have ever been able to come up with in situations like this that actually WORKED are these: For jazz, slow the click to half notes in 4/4 and then use it as the off-beat. For latin, record a clave player playing clave to a click track...needn't be long w/contemorary digital techniques, you just clone the two bars for however long the piece is...then play that track as the "click track" and don't play the original click. If the producer has enough subtlety to hear the no-swing problem in the first place, and enough sense to try these things, they work pretty well. But never as well as a good rhythm section playing freely, slight changes of tempo and all. If we were meant to be "perfect"...if non-varying, perfectly repeatable "perfection" were evolutionarily desirable...we would be. Later... S. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 10:14:26 -0400 From: Denver Seifried Subject: Chet Baker Biography List Members--Sorry for no trombone content on this one! Having a little lull in the gig department, so I decided to check out the scene at the local public library---no gigs there either; however, did pick-up a recent addition to the library's biography section--and I HIGHLY recommend it to all trombonists to read. Here it is--- "Deep In A Dream" by author, James Gavin---a most sad, incredible biography of the late, great, jazz trumpet star, Chet Baker! Wonderful reading and a mind opening account of the wasted, drug related, rise and fall life of one of my favorite jazz musicians, regardless of what instrument he played. James Gavin gleaned his information from Chet's family, fellow musicians, managers, friends, lovers, etc. Many good and startling photographs of the life and times of Chet Baker to enhance the wonderful and sometimes powerful writing in this book. Check it out at your favorite bookstore or public/university library. Also, is reviewed in the latest issue of Downbeat Magazine, for a little teaser. Denny Seifried Bass Trombone-Springfield (OH) Symphony & Dayton Jazz Orchestra Adjunct Trombone-Wittenberg Univ. Dept. of Music ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 10:41:23 -0400 From: sabutin Subject: Re: Chet Baker Biography >List Members--Sorry for no trombone content on this one! ========== Actually, this IS trombone related. Chet Baker had a huge sound... He couldn't play very fast or very high... He used his limitations to make great music... Voila...instant honorary trombone player. S. ============ > >Having a little lull in the gig department, so I decided to check out the >scene at the local public library---no gigs there either; however, did >pick-up a recent addition to the library's biography section--and I HIGHLY >recommend it to all trombonists to read. > >Here it is--- "Deep In A Dream" by author, James Gavin---a most sad, >incredible biography of the late, great, jazz trumpet star, Chet Baker! >Wonderful reading and a mind opening account of the wasted, drug related, >rise and fall life of one of my favorite jazz musicians, regardless of what >instrument he played. James Gavin gleaned his information from Chet's >family, fellow musicians, managers, friends, lovers, etc. Many good and >startling photographs of the life and times of Chet Baker to enhance the >wonderful and sometimes powerful writing in this book. > >Check it out at your favorite bookstore or public/university library. Also, >is reviewed in the latest issue of Downbeat Magazine, for a little teaser. > >Denny Seifried >Bass Trombone-Springfield (OH) Symphony & Dayton Jazz Orchestra >Adjunct Trombone-Wittenberg Univ. Dept. of Music ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 10:50:23 -0500 From: "Dr. Carole Nowicke, Applied Health Science" Subject: Re: Chet Baker Biography The county library copy is on order and the IU music library's copy is "in process." They've had some items "In process" for a good three years, so I hope at some time it's available. I saw the film "Let's Get Lost" when it came out and found it engaging and disturbing. I'd heard recordings of course, but had not at that point seen many stills or clips of the young Baker. The film maker hadn't intended on producing an anti-drug film but I certainly found it effective in that way. Carole Nowicke cnowicke@indiana.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 11:01:48 -0500 From: E P LUKAS Subject: Re: Internet Recital Brad Howland wrote: > I videotaped myself playing Bach's "Flute Partita in D Minor," arranged by > Kevin Thompson, and put it on the Internet for all to see: > http://www.musicforbrass.com/brstacks/vol23/volume23.html That's GREAT, Brad. That Bach guy is some kind of rocker. Didn't he write for Led Zeppelin way back in the 80's? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 11:32:57 -0500 From: Brandon Moodie <3bones@3BONES.COM> Subject: Re: Robert Farnon-Caution! Men Swinging Denny, I did a search at www.allmusic.com (a great resource for all kinds of album info), and the personnel list does indeed include George Roberts on bass trombone, as well as Tommy Pederson and Joe E. Howard on trombone, and Bob Enevoldsen on valves as you mentioned. Hope this helps, --Brandon Moodie > -----Original Message----- > From: Trombones and related issues forum. > [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU]On Behalf Of Denver Seifried > Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 12:05 AM > To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU > Subject: [TBN-L] Robert Farnon-Caution! Men Swinging > > > OK----List Members--need some help finding who played bass trombone on a > very old album from the 1950's called "Caution! Men Swinging" by British > arranger, Robert Farnon. The original album has been re-issued on > a Spanish > RCA Victor CD, by the same name. > > I went to Google, and found some of the session members (LA); however, no > bass trombone. Seems as though Bob Enesvolden was on valve trombone; > however, there was some very fine bass trombone playing on a track titled, > "Just You, Just Me", and it just didn't sound like Bob Enesvolden on > valve-bass trombone. Just kiddin'! It sure sounds like George > Roberts and is > from the right time period, when he would have been heavily > involved in the > studios of LA. > > This was another great track I heard on my local Time-Warner digital cable > music/big band channel. This was some bass trombone playing, at its very > best!!! Wow, what a sound! > > Denny Seifried > Bass Trombone-Springfield (OH) Symphony & Dayton Jazz Orchestra > Adjunct Trombone-Wittenberg Univ. Dept. of Music > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 10:13:42 -0700 From: Galen Zinn Subject: No Bones About It! Window Dressing? (JVC Jazz Festival commentary) I stood by the left backstage door and listened to the Greg Adams, Chris Botti, Wayman Tisdale, Fourplay, and Dave Koz groups last night. Sadly, the only group that even attempted to utilize a trombonist was Dave Koz. The bone only played on two of the numbers from the Koz set. I guess you could say it was used for loud, high, brassy, smeary relief from the other numbers that were played. I had no way of finding out who the trombonist was, so he shall remain anonymous. I did hear some sensitivity and soul from the trumpet, sax, bass, keyboard, and percussion players. Are we in the middle of a plague? A famine? What is the status of the trombone in jazz these days? What ever happened to soulful, lyrical trombone playing? By listening to last night's concert, 12,000 people were taught (treated to the knowledge) that the trombone is nothing more than maybe a little window dressing when you want a raucous section in your music. And everyone screamed and applauded loudly for more??? Here here, all you young bone players get out there and fill the void. Show them the versatility of the trombone! This tour has gone, or is going not only to Concord, but LA, Vancouver, Chicago, New York, Amsterdam, Paris, and Warsaw, just to name a few of the cities I remember. All of the jazz fans in these cities will be receiving the same message. Oh, and something else, why does a jazz concert need to be sound reinforced to the point of sounding like your everyday rock concert? What ever happened to delicacy? Must we bulldoze the listener to the point of needing earplugs? My 3¢ worth, Galen Zinn http://www.cafeshops.com/cp/store.aspx?s=stonestbones grzinn@ca.astound.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 11:34:27 -0600 From: James Scott Subject: Re: Trombonist in Sharkey's Machine Richard - Believe it or not, I actually found the old LP of the soundtrack to this flick in my record collection. It does not list individual soloists, but some of the big names pictured at the session include - Doc Severinsen, Allan Vizzutti, Snooky Young, Pete Candoli, Bill Watrous, Carl Fontana, Jimmy Cleveland, Ray Brown, and Shelly Manne. Too many others to list. I remember running out and buying the soundtrack after seeing the movie in the theaters (the movie was very forgettable, but they went for a great jazz soundtrack with terrific name players). Jim Scott Richard Johnson wrote: > I'm watching an early 1980's movie entitled Sharkey's Machine. In the > background there is some killer trombone work.....especially a rendition of > My Funny Valentine. Is it Frank Rosolino? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 15:00:56 -0500 From: Richard Johnson Subject: Re: Trombonist in Sharkey's Machine I wonder if the soundtrack is still for sale? I may search for it. Someone else told me that it was Bill Watrous playing the solo. It does sound like him. The soundtrack is great! It's amazing how good My Funny Valentine sounds when it it played properly on trombone. The trombonist on Sharkey's Machind did a great job on it. Harry Watters for the Army Blues did a great job on it at the ITF earlier this year. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Scott" To: "Richard Johnson" Cc: Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Trombonist in Sharkey's Machine > > Richard - > > Believe it or not, I actually found the old LP of the soundtrack to this flick > in my record collection. It does not list individual soloists, but some of the > big names pictured at the session include - Doc Severinsen, Allan Vizzutti, > Snooky Young, Pete Candoli, Bill Watrous, Carl Fontana, Jimmy Cleveland, Ray > Brown, and Shelly Manne. Too many others to list. I remember running out and > buying the soundtrack after seeing the movie in the theaters (the movie was > very forgettable, but they went for a great jazz soundtrack with terrific name > players). > > Jim Scott > > Richard Johnson wrote: > > > I'm watching an early 1980's movie entitled Sharkey's Machine. In the > > background there is some killer trombone work.....especially a rendition of > > My Funny Valentine. Is it Frank Rosolino? > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 16:18:30 -0500 From: Bart Roberts Subject: Bass Trombone Question Hello All, I was wondering if UMI is still or even has looked into manufacturing a bass trombone with double Lindberg Valves? Any thoughts? Thanks Bart Roberts ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 18:00:51 -0400 From: "Hector Bourg Jr." Subject: Re: Trombonist in Sharkey's Machine ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Johnson" To: Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 4:00 PM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Trombonist in Sharkey's Machine > I wonder if the soundtrack is still for sale? I may search for it. Try Collector's Choice Music....they've got a great selection of re-issues. http://www.ccmusic.com ...they're the most likely source. hb **************************************************************************** *** Hector "Butch" Bourg Jr. - Graphic and Web Design - Atlanta, GA Trombonist - Sentimental Journey Orchestra - http://www.thesjo.com ** NOW CELEBRATING TWENTY-SIX SWINGIN' YEARS ** **************************************************************************** *** PLEASE UPDATE your e-dress for me to: sackbutt@attbi.com **************************************************************************** *** >Someone > else told me that it was Bill Watrous playing the solo. It does sound like > him. The soundtrack is great! > It's amazing how good My Funny Valentine sounds when it it played properly > on trombone. The trombonist on Sharkey's Machind did a great job on it. > Harry Watters for the Army Blues did a great job on it at the ITF earlier > this year. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Scott" > To: "Richard Johnson" > Cc: > Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 12:34 PM > Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Trombonist in Sharkey's Machine > > > > > > Richard - > > > > Believe it or not, I actually found the old LP of the soundtrack to this > flick > > in my record collection. It does not list individual soloists, but some of > the > > big names pictured at the session include - Doc Severinsen, Allan > Vizzutti, > > Snooky Young, Pete Candoli, Bill Watrous, Carl Fontana, Jimmy Cleveland, > Ray > > Brown, and Shelly Manne. Too many others to list. I remember running out > and > > buying the soundtrack after seeing the movie in the theaters (the movie > was > > very forgettable, but they went for a great jazz soundtrack with terrific > name > > players). > > > > Jim Scott > > > > Richard Johnson wrote: > > > > > I'm watching an early 1980's movie entitled Sharkey's Machine. In the > > > background there is some killer trombone work.....especially a rendition > of > > > My Funny Valentine. Is it Frank Rosolino? > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 17:58:44 -0400 From: Denver Seifried Subject: Re: Bass Trombone Question -Bart & List Members, Those of us who were at ITF2002 and visited the UMI/Conn display saw the new prototype 62H inline with CL2000 valves attached. I also believe that the bass trombonist in Lindberg's Trombone Ensemble 2000 was using one of these, with the addition of a Sterling bell, if I remember correctly. I think this horn was originally constructed for Tom Klaber, bass trombonist with the Cleveland Orchestra, as they were trying to satisfy his dissatisfaction with the old Benge he was playing. Remember, UMI, is located just east of Cleveland, and the trombone section in Cleveland used to use Benge trombones. I am not sure what they are using presently. There was some talk on the trombone-l a year or so ago, that Tom's horn was going to be probably a one-of-a-kind item, created only for him by Conn, with production very far into the future, if at all. Well, looks like that point may be arriving sooner than we all thought! Good for Conn and UMI. I wish I would have played this horn; however, I was too busy being distracted by a GREAT Mt.Vernon 50B that Gary Greenhoe owns, which he converted to Greenhoe valves and was guarding with his life, being surrounded by bass trombonists will drooling mouths constantly. Hope we all find out some info on this new Conn horn. Denny Seifried Bass Trombone-Springfield (OH) Symphony & Dayton Jazz Orchestra Adjunct Trombone-Wittenberg Univ. Dept. of Music ---- Original Message ----- From: "Bart Roberts" To: Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 5:18 PM Subject: [TBN-L] Bass Trombone Question > Hello All, > > I was wondering if UMI is still or even has looked into manufacturing a > bass trombone with > double Lindberg Valves? > > Any thoughts? > > Thanks > > Bart Roberts > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 17:25:54 -0600 From: David Oliver Subject: Re: 1912 slide tuningdual bore Olds. (trombone history) Hello Sam and fellow listers. I bought a book at the Nashville ITF last year (where I met you) called "Brass Musical Instruments", by Richard J. Dundas (ISBN 0-9617093-1-6). He last revised the book in 1998, and F.E. Olds is of course covered. The Olds you tried was probably one of the first horns he sold, as the book relates that he started selling his horns in 1912. Olds was a trombone player and skilled machinist and he appears to have been the Steve Shires of his day, modifying and repairing horns for friends initially, then going into production after good results with slide and bell modifications. Among the Olds design inovations were: "on-site tube drawing, two-piece patented bracing, nickel-silver slides, and the fluted slide" (taken straight from the book). It's just a couple of paragraphs, but I still learned a lot. BTW (more history), the old H.N White company "King" model name derives from Thomas King, a solo trombonist in a theater orchestra. He tested a bunch of different horns until a better quality horn was produced. From the way it is written, I believe that the trombone was the first thing H.N. White produced back in 1893. Lastly, Frank Holton was a trombone player as well (in addition to being a vocal soloist and cornet player). He did a few tours with the Sousa band and other groups, but stopped touring in 1898. He started in business with a new trombone oil concoction, but that didn't fly so he got into small scale trombone manufacturing. He moved the factory to Elkhorn, WI in 1918, and by that time was making cornets, trumpets, and trombones. Pretty neat huh? What Steve Shires and others (Gary Greenhoe, etc.) are doing is simply a continuation of what the many pioneers did at the turn of the century. Do other instruments have this kind of innovation - especially in such a relatively short period of time? I'm a certified Connhead (except for my Holton bass), but alas Charles G. Conn played cornet. Elden Benge played cornet, then trumpet. While I'm at it, Vincent Bach was a trumpeter as well. David Oliver Broomfield, Colorado USA sabutin wrote: > >On 8/17/02 1:14 AM, Adrian Drover wrote: > > > >> From: "Les" > >> > >> > >>> Gee, as one of my sax-player friends observed, how hard can it be to play > >> an > >>> instrument that has only One moving part??? > >> > >> > >> Yes that's strange, isn't it. > >> Trombone has only one moving part. > >> Trumpet has 3. > >> Saxophone has 20. > >> > >> Easiest fingering system to learn? > >> > >> Saxophone. > >> > >> A. > >> > >> Adrian Drover > >> ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk > >> Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk > > > >Don't forget the spit valve, tuning slides, rotors, etc. Uh-oh the moving > >parts are increasing... > > > > =============== > > Hi all... > > Hmmmm...maybe we're getting too complicated... > > I just picked up one of the best blowing horns I have ever played, > an Olds from about 1912. NO tuning slide on the bell, NO slide lock, > NO lock between slide and bell. NO middle braces on the bell, NO > balance weight...no NUTHIN' extra. I think it's .509/.525. Dual bore > for sure.... > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 17:57:32 -0600 From: David Oliver Subject: "The Music Man" in Denver I saw the touring production of "The Music Man" last Thursday, and highly recommend it for the strong trombone content. I'd only seen the movie prior, and really enjoyed hearing the great sound from the 3 trombonists in the "pit" and on the stage initially. The first scene has a Dixieland'ish sort of thing with them and a few of the others playing in the train. From an article in the paper today, I do have two names: Brian Troiano Darrell Hendricks Great sound and balance from these guys. I think the bass trombone may have doubled on tuba and tenor from what I heard. >From the musical arrangements to the finale where almost everyone in the cast "plays" trombone - hey, they get an A for effort, it's the most I've ever seen the trombone being a part of a show like that. They maybe got halfway to 76 trombones. Hey, this instrument needs all the PR it can get nowadays it seems. I've heard from someone else on the list that very few kiddos are playing trombone in middle school bands locally. ("Phantom of Opera" had synthesized brass except for french horn best I can remember. I could hear it instantly.) According to the article, this is it for the show for bit. They will take a break and get back at it though with around 25% of the current company. BTW, I know the names of the two trombone players because they are the only ones shown in the picture in the Aug. 11th Denver Post! Ha! Somehow they got roped into playing at the opening of a new highway exchange here (I-76, see the connection?). Hmmm... Heck, I wanted to practice when I got home! The only problem was that it was 11:45 p.m. and I had to work the next day (*and* it was too late for the neighbors of course). As a trombone player, I don't know if I was more pumped up after seeing "Blast!" or this. David Oliver Broomfield, Colorado USA ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 18:13:47 -0600 From: David Oliver Subject: Farm Town Band Concert - Experience I wanted to relate to the list how much fun it was yesterday to play at a little farm town near the Kansas/Colorado border. It's called Vernon, and is maybe 3 or 4 streets. It was everything you might imagine: auctions, crafts for sale, tractors pulling big wagons and tractors pulling little wagons for kids rides. It was a heck of a drive at 225 miles each way (I live northwest of Denver) and took about all day, but it was also nice to have such an appreciative audience. They enthusiastically clapped after each number. It was getting a brief window into a slower paced kind of life that most of us don't live anymore. The people were all so genuine and friendly it made the long haul on I-70 worth it. We are starting to get into a bit of a comedy routine for "Trombone Rag" now. After we stand up, one of the other guys (Bob) gestures for more applause and I sort of poo-poo that and shake my head. It wasn't planned, but maybe we should keep doing it as it got a good reaction. We had a good turn out for the band (except for flutes). One of the long time trombone players keeps joking about putting us in for a pay raise - only a nebulous concept in a community band... David Oliver Broomfield, Colorado USA Bass Trombone, Denver Concert Band (playing the TR-181 for the next 2 summer concerts) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 18:27:56 -0600 From: David Oliver Subject: Re: 1912 slide tuningdual bore Olds. (trombone history)] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------10673E3526137A066207B21B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Trying again with this one. David --------------10673E3526137A066207B21B Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Message-ID: <3D602D02.9E1EFA9E@accessnetusa.com> Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 17:25:54 -0600 From: David Oliver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Re: [TBN-L] 1912 slide tuningdual bore Olds. (trombone history) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Sam and fellow listers. I bought a book at the Nashville ITF last year (where I met you) called "Brass Musical Instruments", by Richard J. Dundas (ISBN 0-9617093-1-6). He last revised the book in 1998, and F.E. Olds is of course covered. The Olds you tried was probably one of the first horns he sold, as the book relates that he started selling his horns in 1912. Olds was a trombone player and skilled machinist and he appears to have been the Steve Shires of his day, modifying and repairing horns for friends initially, then going into production after good results with slide and bell modifications. Among the Olds design inovations were: "on-site tube drawing, two-piece patented bracing, nickel-silver slides, and the fluted slide" (taken straight from the book). It's just a couple of paragraphs, but I still learned a lot. BTW (more history), the old H.N White company "King" model name derives from Thomas King, a solo trombonist in a theater orchestra. He tested a bunch of different horns until a better quality horn was produced. From the way it is written, I believe that the trombone was the first thing H.N. White produced back in 1893. Lastly, Frank Holton was a trombone player as well (in addition to being a vocal soloist and cornet player). He did a few tours with the Sousa band and other groups, but stopped touring in 1898. He started in business with a new trombone oil concoction, but that didn't fly so he got into small scale trombone manufacturing. He moved the factory to Elkhorn, WI in 1918, and by that time was making cornets, trumpets, and trombones. Pretty neat huh? What Steve Shires and others (Gary Greenhoe, etc.) are doing is simply a continuation of what the many pioneers did at the turn of the century. Do other instruments have this kind of innovation - especially in such a relatively short period of time? I'm a certified Connhead (except for my Holton bass), but alas Charles G. Conn played cornet. Elden Benge played cornet, then trumpet. While I'm at it, Vincent Bach was a trumpeter as well. David Oliver Broomfield, Colorado USA sabutin wrote: > >On 8/17/02 1:14 AM, Adrian Drover wrote: > > > >> From: "Les" > >> > >> > >>> Gee, as one of my sax-player friends observed, how hard can it be to play > >> an > >>> instrument that has only One moving part??? > >> > >> > >> Yes that's strange, isn't it. > >> Trombone has only one moving part. > >> Trumpet has 3. > >> Saxophone has 20. > >> > >> Easiest fingering system to learn? > >> > >> Saxophone. > >> > >> A. > >> > >> Adrian Drover > >> ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk > >> Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk > > > >Don't forget the spit valve, tuning slides, rotors, etc. Uh-oh the moving > >parts are increasing... > > > > =============== > > Hi all... > > Hmmmm...maybe we're getting too complicated... > > I just picked up one of the best blowing horns I have ever played, > an Olds from about 1912. NO tuning slide on the bell, NO slide lock, > NO lock between slide and bell. NO middle braces on the bell, NO > balance weight...no NUTHIN' extra. I think it's .509/.525. Dual bore > for sure.... > > --------------10673E3526137A066207B21B-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 20:42:57 -0400 From: "Wessner, John" Subject: Re: Farm Town Band Concert - Experience No trombone content here: In 1973, I interviewed at Colby Community College in Colby, Kansas. I flew from Bozeman - which was a university town - to Denver and then got a puddle jumper to Goodland, where I was picked up. I still remember walking down the long hallway at Stapleton from my first flight to the second. Saffron-robed monks, thoroughly modern cool 70s' types gave way to more sober conservative busines people from the 60s, who in turn were replaced by farmers and implement dealers with sideburns above their ears. It was truly time travel. I was offered the job, but got one at Towson later in the week. 20 years later, my youngest daughter drove to the west coast to work and spent the night in Colby. She called the next evening to thank us. I grew up on a real farm in the surroundings described, but my nostalgia mostly vanished when I went back at age 30 for a few weeks. City/community band concerts are the biggest thing I miss. Ronald Borror and I played for his father in the 50s. jw -----Original Message----- From: David Oliver [mailto:dcoliver@ACCESSNETUSA.COM] Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 8:14 PM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: [TBN-L] Farm Town Band Concert - Experience I wanted to relate to the list how much fun it was yesterday to play at a little farm town near the Kansas/Colorado border. It's called Vernon, and is maybe 3 or 4 streets. It was everything you might imagine: auctions, crafts for sale, tractors pulling big wagons and tractors pulling little wagons for kids rides. It was a heck of a drive at 225 miles each way (I live northwest of Denver) and took about all day, but it was also nice to have such an appreciative audience. They enthusiastically clapped after each number. It was getting a brief window into a slower paced kind of life that most of us don't live anymore. The people were all so genuine and friendly it made the long haul on I-70 worth it. We are starting to get into a bit of a comedy routine for "Trombone Rag" now. After we stand up, one of the other guys (Bob) gestures for more applause and I sort of poo-poo that and shake my head. It wasn't planned, but maybe we should keep doing it as it got a good reaction. We had a good turn out for the band (except for flutes). One of the long time trombone players keeps joking about putting us in for a pay raise - only a nebulous concept in a community band... David Oliver Broomfield, Colorado USA Bass Trombone, Denver Concert Band (playing the TR-181 for the next 2 summer concerts) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 18:07:07 -0700 From: emrose79@PACBELL.NET Subject: Re: Internet Recital no...not JS Bach.......you're thinking of his father PDQ Bach... E P LUKAS wrote: > > Brad Howland wrote: > > I videotaped myself playing Bach's "Flute Partita in D Minor," arranged by > > Kevin Thompson, and put it on the Internet for all to see: > > http://www.musicforbrass.com/brstacks/vol23/volume23.html > > That's GREAT, Brad. That Bach guy is some kind of rocker. > Didn't he write for Led Zeppelin way back in the 80's? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 22:18:18 -0400 From: James Gicking Subject: Chet Baker and jazz writers Forgive me for what is going to be a long post on a subject that's been bugging me for, oh about 25 years: the Chet Baker "story" and the sorry state of jazz writing/criticism/biography. There are apparently no entry barriers to someone who decides to write about jazz, particularly for someone interested in writing, yet again, about the "wasted life" of Chet Baker, or others I need not name, they are all well known in jazz, or really any other art, how they destroyed themselves, their art, all those unfortunate enough to have cared about them, blah, blah, blah. Having said that, let me take a crack at the subject (in a forum also w/o entry barriers (smile)). I won't pretend to writer's/critics' credentials. I have never, before now, written a word about Chet or any other musician. But I was fortunate enough to have lived a part of the "Chet Baker Story," for about six years. I payed attention. I observed a great many people who attached themselves to Chet. It seems they still do. From what I saw, none of them had any grounds to complain about being used or manipulated by the man. Most got bragging/complaining rights which is what they wanted. I guess that may now include me. It certainly includes those prominently supplying data for this particular bio. None of this is relevant to the music. Its not, I don't believe, even very interesting. But I wish the biographers, and especially the latest one, based on the reviews I've read, would get their facts straight. Chet was not some modest talent merely projected into a jazz version of James Dean. So far as I could tell, and gleaned from those who knew better than I, he was the real thing, an improviser with a melodic gift, an ability to negotiate, gracefully, just about any harmonic landscape, and a player maybe even envied by his peers for these gifts. While the reviews of this particular bio (which of course presented another opportunity for third rate writers to write reviews synopsizing Chet for those who couldn't care less about the music, which I couldn't help but read) suggest that Chet's success in the polls was resented by the likes of Miles Davis (to whom Chet could supposedly not measure up). I observed something entirely different: how other PLAYERS, with no small reputations, viewed Chet, people like Bob Brookmeyer, Jim Hall, Gil Evans, Ornette Coleman (who also thought a lot of Bobby Hackett) Paul Desmond (second hand in his case, who was supposed to have relished extensive quotes from Chet's improvisations), and young guys at the time I was involved who were awed by what Chet could do and with ease; people like Michael Brecker for example. I, for one, have never heard a musician of this stature "dis" Chet, or at least his playing. Hell, Charlie Parker picked Chet out of the crowd to play w/him in California, so the story (and amateur recording) goes. He likely also heard something other than a cheap imitation of Miles. >From whence I speak: >From 1976 until about '82-83 I worked for/with John Snyder who started A&M's jazz label Horizon, and when A&M dropped us in favor of what it had in mind in the first place (a CTI-clone, courtesy of Tommy LiPuma) John started Artists House. But that's another story. We recorded Chet quite a few times during those years and I often booked him into clubs and some concerts in the US, and served for a time as his nominal "manager." This was a leisure service of A&M, then Artists House, and when I worked for Creed Taylor at the reconstructed CTI in '81-82, I continued to do some work w/ Chet. I never made a dime, actually lost money as "manager;" I'm not complaining, it was worth it. But during those years I heard Chet almost every night he was anywhere in the NYC area. I usually had something to do with him being there and John had encouraged me to go and run a little UHER tape recorder to document Chet's playing. I was happy to go. Chet's general club band was not made up of players of his caliber. Some were quite talented, learning their trade, others just adequate but gregarious and their efforts would take the heat off Chet. Chet was not a band leader. He was largely content to show up and get paid. He would, it is true, also record just about anywhere, w/ anyone, who paid. As far as the club playing went, it seemed the less he had to do, and play, the better. One young baritone sax player in his regular group who shall remain nameless played endless solos of eigth notes, would take ten choruses to Chet's one or two. Chet didn't seem to mind a bit. I'd wait, sometimes in pain, for Chet's moments. It was nearly always worth it. I suppose if these biographies lead readers with a casual interest in the music to seek out THE MUSIC, I shouldn't complain. There, its off my chest. Jim ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 21:53:11 -0500 From: Chris Waage Subject: Elkhart 8H on eBay OK - this one sounds too good to be true, but if I had $300 to spare, I'd snag it! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=900709604 Chris -- ________________________________________________ Chris Waage, Associate Webmaster chris@trombone.org http://www.trombone.org - A web site for trombonists ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 19:59:28 -0700 From: Randy Fendrick Subject: Re: Chet Baker I grew up on the West Coast in the 1950's and was a Chet Baker fan until I went to the navy school of music in 1958. There I learned that I shouldn't like Chet Baker but should buy into what Miles, Dizzy, and Clifford was doing. While I did enjoyed those guys and learned so much in what they were doing, I couldn't get it out of my mind that Chet was doing some really good things, too. My room mates would suggest that all he did were "pucka, pucka" solos, in other words, solos that didn't say too much but were solos non-the less. I kept thinking, Hey! they are missing something but I succumed to the ideas of my room mates. During this time, we went to San Francisco to perform and while there several of us went to Bob City for a jam session. Mingus was in town and his rhythm section (less Mingus) was jamming. The bass player in our group sat in and they kind of said; ok, kid you can sit in but we aren't going to play anything too serious so they called "Lullaby of Birdland." Jerry, the bass player, made the changes and played a respectable solo, so the piano player said you call one. He called "Cranky Spanky (sp), the Gigi Gryce tune, and played the head on upright, with the tempo being a very respectable up-tempo bebop. While this was going on, a real heavy set guy, came over and said to me, tell the bass player when he gets to New York to call me, as I can put him to work. I later learned that the guy was Mingus. The only reason I bring this up is that the 25th anniversary of Elvis' death was Friday and this morning on NPR they interviewed Mingus' widow and the bass player for Elvis was the same guy. He probably never called Mingus but it was Jerry who used to give me a hard time about liking Chet Baker. A week ago, I was at our cabin in the Sierras and dug out a video of "Let's Get Lost," the somewhat biography of Chets life. Its real sad, in that the cat was so self destructive, but it reassured me that I really wasn't full of stuff back in 1958, when I knew that Chet was doing some real good stuff. And, I don't mean the stuff he was smoking. later, -Randy Fendrick- Bakersfield Symphony Orchestra Southside Chicago Seven ------------------------------ End of TROMBONE-L Digest - 17 Aug 2002 to 18 Aug 2002 (#2002-36) ****************************************************************