Subject: TROMBONE-L Digest - 16 Aug 2002 to 17 Aug 2002 (#2002-35) There are 15 messages totalling 698 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. TROMBONE-L Digest - 14 Aug 2002 to 15 Aug 2002 (#2002-33) (2) 2. Playing on the Beat 3. Playing on the beat 4. Test your body clock (was playing on the beat) (5) 5. [TL]Re: TROMBONE-L Digest - 14 Aug 2002 to 15 Aug 2002 (#2002-33) 6. The Importance of TIME 7. Moving parts...the fewer the better ? 1912 slide tuning dual bore Olds. (was Re: TROMBONE-L Digest - 14 Aug 2002 to 15 Aug 2002) 8. Internet Recital 9. Arranger F. Dutton (2) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 23:42:34 -0700 From: Les Subject: Re: TROMBONE-L Digest - 14 Aug 2002 to 15 Aug 2002 (#2002-33) Gee, as one of my sax-player friends observed, how hard can it be to play an instrument that has only One moving part??? Les Benedict lbenedict@socal.rr.com ******************** > From: "Daniel Pliskin" > > > I can officiously say that the scientists > aren't going to do anything for you, when it comes to making trombones easy > to play. Only practice will make trombone easier to play. > _______________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 08:53:43 +0100 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: Playing on the Beat From: > I take your point completely Sam, and this probably has nothing to do with > anything, but it took me and my kids YEARS to learn to walk and sometimes > both I and they still get it wrong. Me too, after a heavy Guinness session. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 08:59:57 +0100 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: Playing on the beat From: > The trick with the dive was to time the > incoming tide. If you timed it right, you jumped into the water. If the > tide was moving out when you landed, then you were a pile of goo in the > rocks. And in any case, you would die of a heart attack on the way down. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 09:14:20 +0100 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: TROMBONE-L Digest - 14 Aug 2002 to 15 Aug 2002 (#2002-33) From: "Les" > Gee, as one of my sax-player friends observed, how hard can it be to play an > instrument that has only One moving part??? Yes that's strange, isn't it. Trombone has only one moving part. Trumpet has 3. Saxophone has 20. Easiest fingering system to learn? Saxophone. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 09:37:03 +0100 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Test your body clock (was playing on the beat) Choose a standard tune that you know well and will swing well at quarter = 120. It should be 32 bars long with the last note falling on the 1st beat of the turnaround in bar 31. Most standard songs have this form. Set your metronome clicking at 120. Zero your stop watch. Start tapping your foot to the metro. click. The next 3 operations have to be done simultaneously. Stop the metronome, start the stop watch, start singing the tune from the beginning of bar 1. Keep you foot tapping. The instant you hit the last note stop the watch. The second hand should now be dead on 12 o'clock, or if you have a digital read-out it should be showing 1:00. How did you do? A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 05:49:32 -0700 From: Galen Zinn Subject: Re: [TL]Re: TROMBONE-L Digest - 14 Aug 2002 to 15 Aug 2002 (#2002-33) On 8/17/02 1:14 AM, Adrian Drover wrote: > From: "Les" > > >> Gee, as one of my sax-player friends observed, how hard can it be to play > an >> instrument that has only One moving part??? > > > Yes that's strange, isn't it. > Trombone has only one moving part. > Trumpet has 3. > Saxophone has 20. > > Easiest fingering system to learn? > > Saxophone. > > A. > > Adrian Drover > ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk > Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk Don't forget the spit valve, tuning slides, rotors, etc. Uh-oh the moving parts are increasing... Galen Zinn http://www.cafeshops.com/cp/store.aspx?s=stonestbones grzinn@ca.astound.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 09:58:21 -0400 From: David Buckley Subject: Re: Test your body clock (was playing on the beat) Interesting. I'd bet that not 1 in 10 is spot on. Haven't tried it myself but will. Dave. Adrian Drover wrote: > Choose a standard tune that you know well and will swing well at quarter = > 120. It should be 32 bars long with the last note falling on the 1st beat > of the turnaround in bar 31. Most standard songs have this form. > > Set your metronome clicking at 120. Zero your stop watch. Start tapping > your foot to the metro. click. > > The next 3 operations have to be done simultaneously. Stop the metronome, > start the stop watch, start singing the tune from the beginning of bar 1. > Keep you foot tapping. > > The instant you hit the last note stop the watch. The second hand should > now be dead on 12 o'clock, or if you have a digital read-out it should be > showing 1:00. How did you do? > > A. > > Adrian Drover > ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk > Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 09:56:17 -0400 From: "David A. Schwartz" Subject: The Importance of TIME We think of Rochut as training in legato style, phrasing, and articulation, but in the midst of publishing Bordogni's piano accompaniments on disks I have discovered that much of Bordogni's training is rhythm, subdivisions, and getting the time right. Take Number Two, in 3/4 time. In the first eight bars the teacher plays 1-2-rest, 1-2-rest and the student is on his or her own to place notes properly on 3. After eight bars the teacher plays 1-2-3, oom-pah-pah, while the student plays bars filled with eighth notes. Are the eighth notes even? Are the upbeats in the right place? We'll soon see. After sixteen more bars the student is still playing eighth notes, but now the teacher is playing eighth notes, too, and the teacher's eighth notes are definitely even and precise. The student is gently cajoled to conform. In another sixteen bars the teacher is back to oom-pah-pah and the student is left alone to make good, even eighth notes, correct upbeats. In the last four bars the student gets long notes while the teacher pounds out loud, angry eighth notes. In two minutes the lesson is over and the student forever knows how to play good upbeats. David David A. Schwartz Belmont, Massachusetts Bordogni web site - http://www.nyx.net/~dschwart/ David A. Schwartz ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 10:04:21 -0400 From: sabutin Subject: Re: Moving parts...the fewer the better ? 1912 slide tuning dual bore Olds. (was Re: TROMBONE-L Digest - 14 Aug 2002 to 15 Aug 2002) >On 8/17/02 1:14 AM, Adrian Drover wrote: > >> From: "Les" >> >> >>> Gee, as one of my sax-player friends observed, how hard can it be to play >> an >>> instrument that has only One moving part??? >> >> >> Yes that's strange, isn't it. >> Trombone has only one moving part. >> Trumpet has 3. >> Saxophone has 20. >> >> Easiest fingering system to learn? >> >> Saxophone. >> >> A. >> >> Adrian Drover >> ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk >> Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk > >Don't forget the spit valve, tuning slides, rotors, etc. Uh-oh the moving >parts are increasing... > =============== Hi all... Hmmmm...maybe we're getting too complicated... I just picked up one of the best blowing horns I have ever played, an Olds from about 1912. NO tuning slide on the bell, NO slide lock, NO lock between slide and bell. NO middle braces on the bell, NO balance weight...no NUTHIN' extra. I think it's .509/.525. Dual bore for sure. It has a fairly small bell, and came w/ a 12C in it, so I assumed it was a small bore. Picked it up and blew it with the 12C...amazing!!!! All there...sound, high range, open lows...I mean it locks above the 12th partial !!! I messed w/other m'pces...even an 11C was too mushy in comparison to several 12Cs I own. Couldn't figure out why it was so free blowing until I compared the bore sizes by trying to slip some of my trombone slides onto the inners of the Olds. It's fairly big, sounds big but plays small. Plays easy, anyway. What is going on here? We've added all these "improvements", made horns much more challenging in a sheer physical sense, and here's this sliding tube w/as constant a taper as a slide trombone can have, built in California when Hollywood was still a scrub forest and automobiles were closer to horse drawn buggies than jet planes, and it just about cuts every small horn on the market today. Plus it's BIGGER than most of them !!! Smaller bell than most contemporary horns, heavier too, I think...probably a smaller leadpipe as well, yet the resistance w/a m'pce that most people think of as a peashooter is wonderful. Open,balanced...lots of projection... It is REALLY a constant taper...small m'pce, probably a fairly constrictive leadpipe, ,509 slide going to .525, then a constant taper through to a bell that tapers much more gradually than most contemporary horns. Very little sudden flare at the end, more of a...I'll say it again...continuous taper. From aperture to bell. Rich sounding instrument w/out being at all woofy. I have seen Wallace-Williams horns that were very much like this one...same general dimensions and approach. Must've been a California thing. Have we all missed something here? Every time I talk to a manufacturer about making horns w/slide tuning and dual bore...and this is the third example of the type that I own (a .522/.547 Conn 76H and a ,547/.565 Conn 70H, both from the mid-'30s) I get the same story...too expensive,too hard to build, too hard to maintain, no market...yet all three of these instruments exhibit the same unearthly qualities. Easy to play, great range in both directions, amazing sound... I used to think it was just a short period in Conn's history (around the '30s) when this happened...almost an accident, an anomaly...but here's a horn 25 years older, made a thousand miles away by other craftsmen and designers (I think...maybe some of them or their apprentices eventually left Olds + went to Elkhart?) that is an exact analogue of the Conns I like so much, only smaller, and plays just like them as well. What's up w/this? I wonder when this "common wisdom" about these designs formed up...late '30s, I'll bet... And since then no one has been willing to challenge it, at least not to the point of investing enough money to do it right...70 years... "Common wisdom" dumb, I think...at least in this case. Later... S. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 10:08:58 -0400 From: sabutin Subject: Re: Test your body clock (was playing on the beat) >Interesting. I'd bet that not 1 in 10 is spot on. Haven't tried it myself but >will. > >Dave. =============== Question is...is this absolute consistency even desirable? I mean, put a metronome on Basie or Ellington or Mulligan or Miles or Brookmeyer...tempos move a little. Almost nothing we think of as "alive" is totally consistent. Ever try to really swing w/a click track? Uh uh.... S. > >Adrian Drover wrote: > >> Choose a standard tune that you know well and will swing well at quarter = >> 120. It should be 32 bars long with the last note falling on the 1st beat >> of the turnaround in bar 31. Most standard songs have this form. >> >> Set your metronome clicking at 120. Zero your stop watch. Start tapping >> your foot to the metro. click. >> >> The next 3 operations have to be done simultaneously. Stop the metronome, >> start the stop watch, start singing the tune from the beginning of bar 1. >> Keep you foot tapping. >> >> The instant you hit the last note stop the watch. The second hand should >> now be dead on 12 o'clock, or if you have a digital read-out it should be >> showing 1:00. How did you do? > > > > A. > > > > Adrian Drover > > ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk > > Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 11:13:43 -0500 From: E P LUKAS Subject: Re: Test your body clock (was playing on the beat) sabutin wrote: > > Question is...is this absolute consistency even desirable? > > I mean, put a metronome on Basie or Ellington or Mulligan or Miles > or Brookmeyer...tempos move a little. Almost nothing we think of as > "alive" is totally consistent. I had my first experience playing with a drum machine last year. Something weird there. Not quite satisfactory. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 10:31:29 -0800 From: alex iles Subject: Re: Test your body clock (was playing on the beat) Hi all, Great topic and discussion. Lots of great ideas to consider so far. I would like to offer up an argument in defense of the poor little metronome we have been bashing, though ;-). Developing and occasionally testing for consistency is not going to take the "life" out of the music that some of you seem to fear. I would argue that this is RARELY the case. I would take Adrian's great exercise and make it even make it even simpler, yet more frustrating for most of us. Try recording yourself this way. Turn on the tape recorder. With your horn nearby, set up a comfortable tempo on the metronome [I would suggest around 70-80bpm the first couple of times]. Listen to it for a while. Tap your foot if you like. Now turn off the metronome. Keep that pulse [foot tapping or not]. Now count off 4 beats out loud [the reason for this later], then play a Bb major scale in quarter notes up to middle C and down. Any kind of articulation is OK here [although, for me, this can make a difference in this exercise!]. Four stinking bars at an easy tempo. Now, listen back to yourself: turn your metronome on along with your count off on tape and see if the time stays the same between the you on tape and the metronome for the duration of the scale. This exercise is actually HARDER at slower tempos. [Can you keep time, with-IN the time!?!?] On average, even a pretty good player will drop or skip [ie drag or rush] a beat or two the first couple of attempts, even though they HONESTLY feel like they are playing the same tempo they started with. You can also learn a lot, just playing along with the "you" on the tape. You quickly see what it is like to play with "you" in a section!! I like to record/play duets this way all the time. This kind of practice shows you your tendencies. That's all. It is not the be-all and end-all, final or "right" way to play music. It is just a way to develop another level of attention. For a real challenge, orchestral players can try doing this metronome test with those excerpts that show in an audition if a player has consistent time. Requiem, Ride, Hungarian March, Wm. Tell, etc. Yes,there is give and take in most musical situations. But feel and time are not always the same thing. Metronomes [used efficiently!!] can help develop time, not feel. I think feel is something you develop away from the metronome. Perhaps it is a non-teachable zen-like quality--maybe that's why it's called FEEL!! Good feel has more room to be consistent or it can waver...a LITTLE. It is based on many factors, many of which involve the combination of players, acoustical setting, altitude, phase of the moons...on and on However,develeping attention to consistent time from an outside source can help develop or test your internal time. Metronomes don't lie. Yes, it is only one way of many to play music, but it is a good middle path so that if the time does give or take a little, you are aware that much more aware of it. Effective practicing with a metronome doesn't have to disturb a good "zen" musical experience. In this way too, Sam, as you have said here before, pitch and time are all part of the same thing. When you get into a section, ensemble or jam session, of course you adjust and flow. But feeling that adjustment can be an amazing musical experience, ESPECIALLY when you have a pretty good ability [natural or developed] to feel CONSISTENT time that can be compared to an outside, objective source, like the metronome. Great thread...Looking forward to more. Alex E P LUKAS wrote: > sabutin wrote: > > > > Question is...is this absolute consistency even desirable? > > > > I mean, put a metronome on Basie or Ellington or Mulligan or Miles > > or Brookmeyer...tempos move a little. Almost nothing we think of as > > "alive" is totally consistent. > > I had my first experience playing with a drum machine last year. > > Something weird there. Not quite satisfactory. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 15:41:30 -0700 From: Brad Howland Subject: Internet Recital Hi all. I videotaped myself playing Bach's "Flute Partita in D Minor," arranged by Kevin Thompson, and put it on the Internet for all to see: http://www.musicforbrass.com/brstacks/vol23/volume23.html Regards, Brad Howland ************************************************************ Trombone, Web Design, Income Tax, Brass Music "Specialization is for insects." ...Robert Heinlein E Mail: bhowland@shaw.ca Web Site: http://www.musicforbrass.com/ The Brass Tacks: http://www.musicforbrass.com/subTacks.html ************************************************************ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 15:42:46 -0700 From: Brad Howland Subject: Arranger F. Dutton Let me send this again. I think I messed it up the first time: My trombone quartet is working on a Christmas CD, and we have two scrawled-out, photocopied arrangements that appear to have been done by somebody named "F. Dutton." The two songs are "Let it Snow" and "Here Comes Santa Claus." Does anybody know who this person is and how he/she can be contacted? We'd like to get permission and pay for the mechanical rights to record these songs. Regards, Brad Howland ************************************************************ Trombone, Web Design, Income Tax, Brass Music "Specialization is for insects." ...Robert Heinlein E Mail: bhowland@shaw.ca Web Site: http://www.musicforbrass.com/ The Brass Tacks: http://www.musicforbrass.com/subTacks.html ************************************************************ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 15:39:06 -0700 From: Brad Howland Subject: Arranger F. Dutton This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_lXLIVgKi8Td1MfCVfdmv8A) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT My trombone quartet is working on a Christmas CD, and we have two scrawled-out, photocopied arrangements that appear to have been done by somebody named "F. Dutton." The two songs are "Let it Snow" and "Here Comes Santa Claus." Does anybody know who this person is and how he/she can be contacted? We'd like to get permission and pay for the mechanical rights to record these songs. Regards, ************************************************************ Trombone, Web Design, Income Tax, Brass Music E Mail: bhowland@shaw.ca Web Site: http://www.musicforbrass.com/ The Brass Tacks: http://www.musicforbrass.com/subTacks.html ************************************************************ --Boundary_(ID_lXLIVgKi8Td1MfCVfdmv8A) Content-type: image/jpeg; name=brad.jpg Content-transfer-encoding: base64 Content-disposition: attachment; filename=brad.jpg Content-Location: http://www.musicforbrass.com/images/brad.jpg /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAgAAZABkAAD/7AARRHVja3kAAQAEAAAAHgAA/+4AIUFkb2JlAGTAAAAAAQMA EAMCAwYAAAJCAAAC8wAABhX/2wCEABALCwsMCxAMDBAXDw0PFxsUEBAUGx8XFxcXFx8eFxoaGhoX Hh4jJSclIx4vLzMzLy9AQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEABEQ8PERMRFRISFRQRFBEUGhQWFhQaJhoaHBoa JjAjHh4eHiMwKy4nJycuKzU1MDA1NUBAP0BAQEBAQEBAQEBAQP/CABEIADIAMgMBIgACEQEDEQH/ xAC0AAADAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAABQYEAgMBBwEBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAwIEAAEFEAABBAED AwEJAAAAAAAAAAACAQMEBQAREgYhEzMxEEEyQhQ0FTUWEQACAQIEAwUEBgsAAAAAAAABAgMREgAh MQRBMhNRYZEiM/BxgTShQlJiFAXB0YKSorLCI1NEdBIAAQMCBQMFAAAAAAAAAAAAAQARMRAhQVFx AhJhgXKRsSIykv/aAAwDAQACEQMRAAAAskUY6OtDmVqIdLE1schex5FzrZannvizd48joUzV2ufN MATX6BiwJGz0W+R6rr/5jkOOlMgaao0ATnsNU3kwAQ4A+fp//9oACAECAAEFAFLRVVNW06dMFpVx 5lQXtKCYMgFHVCRCFE1ZyF48k+PP/9oACAEDAAEFAETXBBdp6a9MN1sVjPiQq8LhaJnYVS2qKjuP Nz2OfF74vs//2gAIAQEAAQUAeiBIgcshMg01LSHDClsTjzbmVUOvkCv/AFL2MWkyPKYsZ8+JSRXU uo17XujziYJSkMNe47ikpFBVW3+NWutc3MjKXK5cIV03L2Xs4/xuTNRKypZds2LJxwl5RGIoNRYH Z8PcZDeGS7uOy4V4LglfgCV3KmUcntLLRiYDTf8AIVeWFI02yBMO4Nm6GOWcgEkvTCroVhYOH+Rl ZY/Z/MnrI9D/AEfGvPn/2gAIAQICBj8AZle9XTiD7lATpTkASxbNHkDxTbrAQvsP0t3kj3W7Q0// 2gAIAQMCBj8ATCxxcLC89lCcYZJt0jrkiY6GjEhze5ZfGc3Ti8SoPoh40Gm2n//aAAgBAQEGPwCa GGUBtwpB3CUUsTqbo6Z9+F3i9PrBH/stYocUVne9vNfRBQ59nHEO328zbn8bau1heNQWkuJZ+4M/ him53O3mnpUw9NkjuHAyK11Ph8MLIdv0em9m9iDEsrEVXzcVkHK3wyOHeG4KzXp2ha3Ly9mPXPJ0 9DyduE3YlsMczyFAApDutj0ipatwy5cLtZkC7ayzbykeYSCsaXMozGdBiHfbp0jh22xE1a1WMACG njU5YkeLciyGjSyEELRjQG45a4gKMHWXZm6RaMrp1fJ4HBA+scyNcuGdcch1ppw+zphnDEzPU3No a/rxFupUKIqVRkS2MjzVUDKtrcRgpYvWXyEsT5lZ2YXfvYn2smyW3cAK9KqtVNwVltJOfEHPG3/L 9lD0CkVJVNPIrt1bMuJPmPw78UQFss8aHWmvHswJd+Pw20tuQPzyUNeFCi0+t4YQ7HZRTugFFLTB kv8ANpuWKk8QDnhl6kRSW2sjSLGImAsBe6lKChyqMiBiTbSbRdyqi0bqCF3uB0tYADx0xLtN2oEy mOydbUlDoi9VLqVIr9oHjpiTeflso3kSed4G+YQceXJx3ih7saHt5sNtw6xoFAzBYlVAA4Ysha2g 5nBLGvG2O4j20w0G9308sbgoVhjiEdGFCrrVZHHDMg4ZYZDBEyqL90UjzUUoihn8ScR7v8x2AcJS zcoxV7aaSFGVre85e7AhW0I1QBIimisOVsvMvD3eOPmG+Z6vH5T/AAa+p9/BfZ7i+RFaQKiS22rm yuZND2MMj9OCu6kdZPqMFDKR97RsBVjgkUCg6kERNB70bBsjijGpEagAn3aeGJd0ZrpBtzIRYtCb a+/Ai2ihQaAwrkprwF7UBPdj5bcenX0o/az6e/E/No/y3pcr6f1d+F00GuB7v0YOnwxN/wAZ/kxt /S9SXm9T01/h7O/H+x817ftY/9k= --Boundary_(ID_lXLIVgKi8Td1MfCVfdmv8A) Content-type: image/gif; name=sign.gif Content-transfer-encoding: base64 Content-disposition: attachment; filename=sign.gif Content-Location: http://www.musicforbrass.com/images/sign.gif R0lGODlhkAASAKIAAKioqEZGRvr6+vv7+/z8/P39/QAAAP///yH5BAAAAAAALAAAAACQABIAAAP/ SFR7fuXJV6Id1kKptydQc4jTWEVUqVqNQAwT6lSEIKDgVKPYHN4yhyKm4pQGAuHLJyGRSiRGKBcM FjcMUAFZGeU4svAEU3GFDrCHzVaSsVfBRVqAHH6pQuPstexeFihvJxJ0ZAyBN1hJJhQYMAsKaW1M agABlwYAHoQABgGLgysDDZCjapKUqRBZLA6SApYBmkMHdAU2NYs/D3JptygMtsGoVw6wmAbJnioC Acq6Vm0udKtCi0ArRaOHlZ3KATPcSIURCltQptQb41tPe27Hzsrfi6/fHSkQPR8bDWmxmroY+ZJn wCtL82Ql6YFklI06zN5AWBRFQSI3QsbFSnYJ/9MlXRK8LTsD59QWgyEiwPrmCkehYgcAiOQIIAmu EwoI3pIpE9mnKXJAloMiJSayTPEUGpMhEpwJg0J1tFtDSF6yha0gCexmlSaihkFs9JxH1oBNSUvC eTmCBKGnmjI9/VxFqxnHcmG+XIimxobVuXqzGS2rdATVvmPLcpQlE40GvgwMVhj1zxnjY8k0MRJh 1xOIHQ228DUmNlbXTJqL4RFQtuYVWBs5kr0MUhXMBzDsMnarFEfIu0UIljat+Fvq0TodyCscEy7P o54UX+YJW2Z1ntiz83RgOvFbY0RiZl5Dfnjs4oSTyCC4J9VOkJ2LT0dPeHHH5dG7/kR4VBYIGP9b ETIbffa5VV8mI2yywgKJJMiLGQScdol10BAn130YZigLhq0ZKJdreOFkRDyzdURdg+J9I0stK0IF BRO34MIeN1vAJpEEXJBW3mG3qXHabNahgdJQtUhiUA6l8dhGOT3VpMUakaDIi2hlkJfBHuzxkst6 56ASR48P/EiTLomoc0he6hRxTgxFpWBDIBGgpCZUR5LhCAVawHDkGtvssc0jWYaHo4OdmAiQkID0 E9k+KQgURYI4dHATLjcUQg0dBNEySDmJhldFCMTcwEeaV0TTJp/ctfhCKGrlQ0GbmxQVxqIxfkbS q5Q4ZMgSpgTHggtpfaCFBrT0AOsdqkiRpxkFlIQmQQIAOw== --Boundary_(ID_lXLIVgKi8Td1MfCVfdmv8A)-- ------------------------------ End of TROMBONE-L Digest - 16 Aug 2002 to 17 Aug 2002 (#2002-35) ****************************************************************