From: Automatic digest processor There are 26 messages totalling 975 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Air column, Schmair column (10) 2. Articulation, was: trombone hard to play 3. trombone hard to play (7) 4. Maintaining "X" Chops? 5. Good valve trombones 6. Having it easy - (Was RE: [TBN-L] trombone hard to play) 7. Doug Elliot (2) 8. Sound and register was RE: [TBN-L] trombone hard to play 9. George Roberts 10. Trombone hard to play ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 19:25:32 +0100 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: Air column, Schmair column From: "Craig Parmerlee" > Once the air passes the lips, > the mechanical movement of air has been converted into a sound wave. From > that point, it travels THROUGH the air column as a wave, at 740-some miles > per hour. Wonder why it doesn't make a loud bang like aircraft do when they go that fast. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 03:31:21 -0400 From: sabutin Subject: Re: Articulation, was: trombone hard to play >Thus spake, not Zarathustra, but David Buckley... > >> Interesting comment re articulation. At Nashville Carsten Swanberg in his >> clinic >> asked why conductors of orchestras are always telling trombones they are >> behind. >> That hit home because we hear it in our orchestra and I thought it >>was just we >> amateurs with not much orchestral experience who had this problem. >>His answer >> was >> partly because we are at the back of the band far from the conductor but >> mostly >> because of our soft attacks, we don't put enough front on the >>note. I'm still >> a >> firm believer that practicing very soft vocal articulation is the way to go. >> This >> allows you the flexibility then to start a note any way you want >>especially at >> low >> volumes but also demands the musical intelligence to do what is required by >> the >> music and the conditions. Nothing worse than trying for a very >>soft attack and >> having it fail making a wimpy start to the note. That'll kill the music >> quicker >> than anything else we might do. >> > > Dave. > ====== Almost my whole;approach is based on time...timing things in using internal time...and I cannot tell you how few students I have heard who could attack a middle Bb (or any other note) in time. ALWAYS late. Hard attack, soft attack, no matter. Late, later and latest. ESPECIALLY orchestral players. Why? Bad conductors and orchestral paranoia, mostly, plus the sheer difficulty of gathering all those muscles and balancing them out in order to play a note N-O-W. S. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 08:45:05 +0100 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: trombone hard to play From: "Craig Parmerlee" > You got that right. When we picked the bugger up, the only way it would > fit in my SUV was with the driver's seat pushed all the way forward. What shape is a SUV? I once had to carry a pedal harp and its lady player to the concert hall in my Volvo station wagon. The harp went in easy with plenty of room to spare for other bits of orchestral equipment and music. I had more of a problem getting the over-weight lady into the front seat. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 08:58:18 +0100 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: Maintaining "X" Chops? From: "Music" > Really? This implies that he finds it easier to maintain cornet chops? > That certainly goes against everything I've heard and experienced. Anyone > else find a cornet or other instrument (other than tuba) easier to > maintain?? I find it difficult moving to anything with a smaller mp, and that includes tenor trombone. The only instrument I am prepared to double on these days is tuba. For some reason, I find the cornet easier to manage than trumpet, and flugel easier than cornet. Small mps soon fatigue my chops muscles, yet cornet was my very first instrument. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 18:32:45 +1000 From: M & S Walker Subject: Re: Air column, Schmair column Quick answer....... Cos it's travelling AT the speed of sound, not faster than it!!!!! Cheers Matthew Walker Bass Trombonist, Opera Australia Walker's Instrument Repair, "The Brassery" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Drover" To: Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 4:25 AM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Air column, Schmair column > From: "Craig Parmerlee" > > > > Once the air passes the lips, > > the mechanical movement of air has been converted into a sound wave. From > > that point, it travels THROUGH the air column as a wave, at 740-some miles > > per hour. > > > Wonder why it doesn't make a loud bang like aircraft do when they go that > fast. > > A. > > Adrian Drover > ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk > Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 05:44:45 -0700 From: David Guion Subject: Re: Air column, Schmair column >> Once the air passes the lips, >> the mechanical movement of air has been converted into a sound wave. From >> that point, it travels THROUGH the air column as a wave, at 740-some miles >> per hour. > > >Wonder why it doesn't make a loud bang like aircraft do when they go that >fast. > >A. > Because it makes a whole bunch of little bangs per second? -- *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* David Guion "When you swim in the sea And an eel bites your knee-- That's a moray!" david@trombone.org *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* -- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 06:56:42 -0600 From: Earl Needham Subject: Re: trombone hard to play At 08:45 AM 8/8/2002 +0100, Adrian Drover wrote: >From: "Craig Parmerlee" > > > You got that right. When we picked the bugger up, the only way it would > > fit in my SUV was with the driver's seat pushed all the way forward. > >What shape is a SUV? I once had to carry a pedal harp and its lady player >to the concert hall in my Volvo station wagon. The harp went in easy with >plenty of room to spare for other bits of orchestral equipment and music. I >had more of a problem getting the over-weight lady into the front seat. I saw that commercial on the TV over here! Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB, Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk KD5XB-2>APW251,PCSAT-1%:=3425.83N/10313.55W-PHG7150/WinAPRS 2.5.1 -EARL_CLOVIS -251-<630> SETI@Home: 3340WU/3.93yrs! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 09:13:02 -0400 From: "Paul D. Kemp, Jr." Subject: Re: Air column, Schmair column There is this thing called "static air" and how I became aware of it was when I started working with the spirometer. If you use static air when using a spirometer, the ball will not move, even though you can be buzzing quite loudly. Here's another parallel. I have taken a few pocket billiards lessons, and the last lesson that I had was the most revealing. The instructor NEVER looked at where I was hitting the cue ball--he watched how the cue ball reacted after it hit the object ball, and he told me what kind of spin that I was putting on the ball as a result of that. There were times that I told him, "I know that I put topspin on the cue ball that time", and he'd say "No, you hit the cue ball dead center." In pocket billiards we have this saying, " Whitey never lies". I thought I was putting topspin on the ball, but what was happening was that my aiming point and my contact point were not the same. Only after I had hit about 25-30 shots did he tell me that I was dropping my right shoulder as I would strike the cue ball and as a result, this made my aiming point and the point where I was striking the cue ball different. He had a very simple drill for me to practice in order to fix it: to practice stroking inside of a long neck beer bottle placed on a dining room table. He also suggested that I practice "position drills", taking the cue ball and setting up a simple cut shot in the corner pocket and practice putting different types of spin on the cue ball, making the ball, and watch where the cue ball went on the table. He had 3 playing cards placed on different spots on the table and when I had hit the cue ball properly, voila, the cue ball rolled right over that playing card. Now, how does that relate to this air thing? If you are using a spirometer properly, the ball will stay up until you quit blowing, whether it is at a fast speed or a slow speed. What Craig said about it isn't necessary for the air to be moving at all for the sound to happen is true. BUT, IT MAKES A TREMENDOUS DIFFERENCE IN THE QUALITY OF THAT SOUND WHEN THE PLAYER IS USING STATIC AIR OR HE IS FOLLOWING THROUGH WITH THE AIR STREAM. Getting back to the pocket billiards analogy, it really isn't necessary to follow through once you strike the cue ball, but if you don't there's an awful lot of wasted effort, and there's also the possibility of not getting the cue ball to be in the proper position for the next shot, or for sidespin (English) not to react as it should. Any sports professional will tell you that the follow through is ESSENTIAL for proper technique, whether you're hitting a baseball, tennis ball, golf ball, etc. Why should playing a wind instrument be any different? As I have reading about the teachings of Arnold Jacobs, many times I have read that in the respiration phenomenon, he considered the instrument to be a distraction, so he would remove the instrument & introduce mouthpiece buzzing or using an incentive spirometer in order to demonstrate his point. After the student had accomplished what Jacobs wanted him to on the spirometer, then they would transfer what they had learned over to the instrument, and many times, the difference in the sound would be amazing. Getting a sound on the trombone isn't that big of a deal, but getting a good quality sound on the instrument is a bit more difficult. In order to do that, nice, unbroken unrestricted column of warm, moving air is ESSENTIAL. Paul Kemp Chattanooga Symphony www.trbnplyr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Parmerlee" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 11:08 AM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Air column, Schmair column > There have been several comments on the "trombone is soooo hard" thread > that talk about the difficulties of getting the air column moving. > > I don't understand why this is a problem. "Moving" the air through the > horn has nothing to do with producing sound. Once the air passes the lips, > the mechanical movement of air has been converted into a sound wave. From > that point, it travels THROUGH the air column as a wave, at 740-some miles > per hour. And it is reflecting back and forth inside the horn at that > speed too. The fact that some of the air happens to be moving at about > 1/100 of a mile per hour through the horn at the same time is of no > consequence at all. > > In other words, it isn't necessary for the air to be moving at all for the > sound to happen. The ONLY reason air moves through the horn is because > we're blowing into the mouthpiece and the air has to go somewhere. But > after the air passes the lips, its work is done. > > Cheers, > Craig > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 06:41:29 -0700 From: Galen Zinn Subject: Re: Air column, Schmair column > On 8/7/02 11:25 AM, Adrian Drover wrote: > >> From: "Craig Parmerlee" >> >> >>> Once the air passes the lips, >>> the mechanical movement of air has been converted into a sound wave. From >>> that point, it travels THROUGH the air column as a wave, at 740-some miles >>> per hour. >> >> >> Wonder why it doesn't make a loud bang like aircraft do when they go that >> fast. >> >> A. >> >> Adrian Drover >> ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk >> Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk > > Some think the BIG BANG happened millions of years ago. Could that explain the > lateness? > > Galen Zinn > http://www.cafeshops.com/cp/store.aspx?s=stonestbones > grzinn@ca.astound.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 15:26:27 +0100 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: trombone hard to play From: "Earl Needham" > >What shape is a SUV? I once had to carry a pedal harp and its lady player > >to the concert hall in my Volvo station wagon. The harp went in easy with > >plenty of room to spare for other bits of orchestral equipment and music. I > >had more of a problem getting the over-weight lady into the front seat. > > I saw that commercial on the TV over here! I was in a Volvo commercial? Geez, I haven't been paid for it yet! A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 10:36:07 -0500 From: Gary Greenhoe Subject: Re: Good valve trombones -----Original Message----- From: Gary Greenhoe [mailto:gary@greenhoe.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 8:12 PM To: Steve Beck Subject: RE: [TBN-L] Good valve trombones Steve, I have no problems with the recent Conn trombones on the market. They are a much improved instrument and as good in their own right as some of the greatest Conn's ever made. I do not care for the CL valve and, as most orchestral professionals, prefer the standard rotary valve over the CL version. As for American trombones, I've always enjoyed either a Conn or a Bach for my own use. This doesn't mean that I don't try other horns. It is quite a luxury to have a job as a trombonist in a full time orchestra where I can experiment with all kinds of instruments and modifications. For the past 30+ years I've explored literally hundreds of factory trombones and variants to document what works efficiently ...and what doesn't. As for my interest in Conn's...I've been collecting Conn trombones all of my life. Currently, there are well over 60 great Conn's in my private collection that dates back to the 19th century. Most of these horns were made prior to Conn's move from Elkhart in the early '70's. Since that time, I had been sincerely disappointed with the product design changes. You must remember that Conn has been through multiple ownerships over the past 30 years. However, con-current with the acquisition by Steinway, over the past year or so I've noticed that Conn has made numerous changes for the better in their trombones. No one has been more surprised or pleased with these changes than I. If a company makes major progress in their instruments and I recognize that as a fact, does that make my observations frivolous? I would hope not. If you are ever in the neighborhood, I invite you to bring your favorite trombone to the shop and compare it with any trombones I have here. You would be most welcome. Kind Regards, gary -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU]On Behalf Of Steve Beck Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 3:19 PM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Good valve trombones From: "Gary Greenhoe" <> Steve, > > I am pleased to note the the CL valve adds it's own set of problems which > truly inhibit the natural sound of the trombone. Should I believe you on this or just wait until you change your mind. In May of 2001 you climbed all over me for suggesting that the New Conn 88's sounded good. You said to your ears and the people around you the were poor. You basically challenged me to a dual - trombone-wise - over this. Then a year later you were singing the praises of this very horn. This is all in the archives Gary. I invite you to look it up. The CL valve works and sounds great. Don't take my word for it, just wait until your change yours. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 10:17:40 -0600 From: Dennis Clason Subject: Having it easy - (Was RE: [TBN-L] trombone hard to play) > At 07:57 PM 8/7/2002 -0700, Rod Ellard wrote: > >And the $25,000 to $40,000 doesn't include the cost of a van to carry the > >thing around in. > > > >Rod > > You got that right. When we picked the bugger up, the only way it would > fit in my SUV was with the driver's seat pushed all the way forward. The > lady she studies with has essentially dedicated a whole van to her harp, > with a complicated set of rails and rigging so she can tote the harp by > herself. We trombonists have it so easy, it is unreal. No, flutists have it so easy it's unreal. We just got back from vacation. I took a mouthpiece along to buzz. My wife took both her picc and flute along to practice. Total length -- well under 3 feet. We've got it about average hard -- sort of bulky, kind of heavy, but manageable. If manufacturers really wanted to give us a break, they'd go back to french style cases. Dennis ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 14:12:11 EDT From: ALFORDMB@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Air column, Schmair column In a message dated 08/08/2002 8:22:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time, hlmswlkr@OZEMAIL.COM.AU writes: > Quick answer....... > > Cos it's travelling AT the speed of sound, not faster than it!!!!! > -------------- Actually, sound travels about 750 feet per second - not miles per hour . . . . Mike Alford ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 14:35:59 -0500 From: "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" Subject: Re: trombone hard to play Walter: At this year's ITF Jay Friedman held a great master class. One of his main points was the mushy attack he perceived as being very popular with current players. He called it something like "soft attack". He also asked us to work on eliminating "hard" legato as well. It has been a while since I looked at my notes from the class, but the loss of contrast in playing is what I think his point was, sort of all playing sliding to the middle :-). The difference between good attacks and soft flowing legato needs to become larger for the average player. The beginning and ending of notes, definition and contrast takes more effort to do well. Jay's simple example of well played notes, the cleanness and beauty of their sound made his words come to life. I can tell you I listen with a different ear and I play differently after his class. That sounds corny, but what he said was a core technique that had never been explained to me in quite that way. I have always felt that higher level musicians will do certain things better than most. One of those things is starting and ending notes and phrases purposefully instead of just running out of air or time. One of Jay's recommendations was to put the tongue right in the middle of the airway, right at the base of the upper teeth and tongue from there rather than the top of the upper teeth. Jay stated he has the best control of tonguing if it is at the action point. Since this fits my bias I agree with it. Still, it is not standard teaching. Could this be a needed adjustment to the larger bore instruments of today? Should the overtonging of new students need to be dealt with by moving the tonging point? Maybe one of Jay's students can comment on his ideas better than I can from 1 master class? Rick Marple San Antonio TX ============== This reminded me of something that's been bothering me of late, mostly in groups that I play in, plus, to a lesser extent, certain trombone "stars" on recordings. What is it with mushy attacks? Doesn't anybody even try to put a point at the start of the note anymore? And that's just for one note, forget about faster passages. Between the mushy attack and the oops-held-it-too-long-but-how-about-that-tone releases, it's a wonder that we're not forced to play the Stars & Stripes at 96 bpm! Yes, the trombone is more responsive these days, but mostly in terms of volume. The same things that make it easier to play louder without total meltdown also make it harder to get a clean attack. Sit down and play a duet with a trumpet player, taking care to match his level of articulation. Try it with a small tenor first, then a 547 large tenor. If you have one around, try a euphonium. As the bore sizes get bigger and more conical, you have to add more "snap" to the attacks to keep up with the trumpet attacks. Many try, fail, then blame the equipment. Another contributing factor is that if you're playing too loud, flexibility of the lips and tongue goes out the window. So, just play "loud", not "too loud." Don't believe it, try playing the last variation of Bluebells at the same volume you/most folks play Mahler 3rd, or the Ride. -- Walter Barrett "Tongue and blow, Kid!" -John Coffey "Tongue harder, kid, it's getting lost in there..." - Me (Walter Barrett) Yamaha Artist/Clinician Tenor, Alto, Bass Trombones Euphonium Bass Trumpet Tuba ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 15:45:42 -0400 From: David Buckley Subject: Doug Elliot Can someone please give me Doug's phone number. I've misplaced my catalogue. Thanks . Dave. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 19:50:13 +0000 From: Daniel Pliskin Subject: Re: Air column, Schmair column > > Cos it's travelling AT the speed of sound, not faster than it!!!!! >Actually, sound travels about 750 feet per second - not miles per hour . . >. No Mike. Sound travels at 1100 ft/sec (335 meters/sec) which translates to 750 miles/hour. But remember, y'all, that we're talking about the speed that a pressure wave travels through air and not the speed that the air moves. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 15:01:29 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee Subject: Re: Air column, Schmair column You obviously haven't stood in front of a section of bass trombonists recently. At 07:25 PM 8/7/2002 +0100, Adrian Drover wrote: >Wonder why it doesn't make a loud bang like aircraft do when they go that >fast. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 15:15:21 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee Subject: Re: Air column, Schmair column At 09:13 AM 8/8/2002 -0400, Paul D. Kemp, Jr. wrote: > it isn't >necessary for the air to be moving at all for the sound to happen is true. >BUT, IT MAKES A TREMENDOUS DIFFERENCE IN THE QUALITY OF THAT SOUND WHEN THE >PLAYER IS USING STATIC AIR OR HE IS FOLLOWING THROUGH WITH THE AIR STREAM. I agree completely. The fact of physics is that nothing important happens (related to the movement of air) at the point just beyond the lips, just as nothing important happens following the instant that a pitcher's fingers leave the baseball. But the mental model of follow through is extremely powerful. As a teaching approach, I completely endorse talking about follow through, or any other mental model that leads a player to use better mechanics. I play a lot of volleyball, and the way to get a player to put topspin on the ball (allowing a hard drive to land in bounds instead of out of bounds) is to follow through with a strong snap of the wrist. If the fingers are pointing down towards the elbow after the hit, then I guarantee there was good topspin. But cause and effect? The fingers were not nearly in the downward position when they left the ball. It is the concentration on getting the fingers to push down that makes the topspin work. The problem is that people mistakenly take the notion of follow through literally, as if that waving motion of the wrist could somehow help fan the baseball a little faster. It can't. What is done is done once the ball leaves the fingertips, but that waving action may cause the player to get just a little bit more action on the ball BEFORE it leaves the fingertips, and that can be a good thing. If the idea of blowing a stream of air through the back wall of the theatre gives the player the mechanics to buzz effectively, I'm all for it. Personally I do better when I concentrate on the root issue, the buzz. Cheers, CP ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 13:46:39 -0700 From: Chris Waage Subject: Re: Doug Elliot 301-871-3535 ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: David Buckley Reply-To: David Buckley Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 15:45:42 -0400 >Can someone please give me Doug's phone number. I've misplaced my >catalogue. > >Thanks . > >Dave. > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 16:55:01 -0400 From: Steve Beck Subject: Re: Air column, Schmair column From: > Actually, sound travels about 750 feet per second - not miles per hour . . . Nope. About 750 MPH is correct. (as if this matters.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 16:08:51 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee Subject: Re: trombone hard to play At 02:35 PM 8/8/2002 -0500, Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston wrote: >At this year's ITF Jay Friedman held a great master class. One of his main >points was the mushy attack he perceived as being very popular with current >players. He called it something like "soft attack". Definitely. There is almost no way to make an attack too crisp, especially in ensemble. What sounds like a clean attack back in the trombone section sounds like mush 100 feet away in the audience. Attacks, like dynamics, should be exaggerated to extremes until the conductor tells us to moderate. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 16:14:16 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee Subject: Re: trombone hard to play At 08:45 AM 8/8/2002 +0100, Adrian Drover wrote: >From: "Craig Parmerlee" > > > You got that right. When we picked the bugger up, the only way it would > > fit in my SUV was with the driver's seat pushed all the way forward. > >What shape is a SUV? I once had to carry a pedal harp and its lady player >to the concert hall in my Volvo station wagon. The harp went in easy with >plenty of room to spare for other bits of orchestral equipment and music. I >had more of a problem getting the over-weight lady into the front seat. Mine is "an SUV with a conscience". It isn't one of those behemoths. A Nissan Pathfinder. Your Volvo wagon could very well have been longer. American SUVs are quite boxy. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 20:26:55 -0400 From: Dave Wank Subject: Re: Sound and register was RE: [TBN-L] trombone hard to play Sorry to be so late in responding to this thread. My ISP has been out since Tuesday! Anyway, at one time or another, I have been a student of almost all the woodwinds (never got around to the bassoon - too difficult!) and all the brass except the French Horn (too difficult!). Anyone can learn HOW to control the pitch of any of the above instruments but doing it, and making that pitch sound musical, is quite another thing. Most of the woodwinds require a very strong embouchre to produce the accepted concept of tone for that instrument. The fishhorn (sax) has practically no tonal center, which is why a good saxophonist (oxymoron?) is a delight to the big band sound. Playing a fishhorn well is about as tricky as playing a trombone with the spit valve open! It can be reasoned that all brass instruments are easy because they all use the same valve combinations. Simple. And the bone positions directly relate to valve combinations. In fact, when I was in high school I learned where the positions were on a trombone by sitting next to a cute little red-head who was learning the bone in an after school pre-band class. But did I ever learn to control the thing? I'm still trying! Yeah, I even spent about a year on one of the fiddles, too. In short, there is no easy-to-play musical instrument. To play any of them well requires many summers of study. dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Beck" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 4:40 PM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Sound and register was RE: [TBN-L] trombone hard to play > From: "Jeff Albert" (in response to "What instruments are easier to play > than the trombone?") > > Saxophones. > > I'll drink to that Jeff. > > I associate with a very good sax player who never practices - only gigs. I, > like Tim Richard, practice daily to maintain my modest abilities. I can > live with that but it really irritates me that this woodwind player can be > out biking while I am practicing without a noticible difference in our > abilities. > > If the reed were on the other lip, so to speak, my range would be in the > toilet and I would be chipping notes left in right. > > I think that brass instruments in general are more difficult than saxes. Is > that why Adolf O'Phone invented them? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 19:06:03 -0600 From: Delbert Pakiser Subject: George Roberts Hello to the San Diego Musicians, Not to long ago George Roberts was playing at Ferry Landing on Coronado Island. Is he still playing there this summer? If so, when? It is my understanding that he is playing on Sunday P.M. at the Kaffeen's. New information would be greatly appreciated. Directions are also helpful. I plan to be in San Diego on the weekend of August 24-25 or maybe August 31-Sept1. Del Pakiser Bass Bone Denver, CO ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 23:35:34 -0400 From: TRBNTERRY Subject: Trombone hard to play ? Listed are the instruments I play professionally, in order of their difficulty, the most difficult listed first: Tenor trombone (20 years) Trumpet (50 years) Bass trombone (8 years) Euphonium (25 years) Tuba (9 years) Tenor sax (25 years) Acoustic bass (40 years) Vibes (35 years) I practice trumpet and trombone regularly, 7 days a week. The rest I can let lay for a couple of weeks and with a day or two of woodshedding, ready to play a gig. The tenor trombone is the most challenging in many respects, and I marvel more at the abilities of certain jazz and classical trombone players, because I know I'll never duplicate them. As for the trumpet, by the time I was thirty, I had mastered most of the classical literature, as well as playing decent jazz and dixieland. If I had my druthers, I druther be playing bass trombone then anything else. But, a guy's got to make a living, and there isn't enough bass trombone work to keep me busy where I live. It's not at all unusual for me to play 4 different horns on a trio or quartet gig. When my chops are completely gone, I'll concentrate on tenor sax. There, what you need mostly are a decent horn, a good mouthpiece, a good reed, and learn how to set the whole thing up properly. One more thing; I played Alphorn for several years, and worked like a dog. There's nothing that slots worse than an Alphorn IMHO. But, man, did it ever build up my trombone chops! Sincerely, Mike Terry "No man is so ignorant as the one who claims he isn't. Life is far too short to become enlightened on all subjects. We are all ignorant, except on different subjects. A musician's training begins at a very early age and lasts a lifetime. Excellence requires many years of hard work and struggle and deserves reward in like manner to the other top-rated professions." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 21:16:16 -0700 From: Rod Ellard Subject: Re: trombone hard to play ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Drover" To: Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 7:26 AM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] trombone hard to play > From: "Earl Needham" > > > >What shape is a SUV? I once had to carry a pedal harp and its lady > player > > >to the concert hall in my Volvo station wagon. The harp went in easy > with > > >plenty of room to spare for other bits of orchestral equipment and music. > I > > >had more of a problem getting the over-weight lady into the front seat. > > > > I saw that commercial on the TV over here! > > > I was in a Volvo commercial? Geez, I haven't been paid for it yet! > > A. No, you were in a harp commercial. No money there! Rod ------------------------------ End of TROMBONE-L Digest - 7 Aug 2002 to 8 Aug 2002 (#2002-26) **************************************************************