TROMBONE-L Digest 2453 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Fw: Midland CD Club Customer update by Howard Weiner 2) Re: newbie lip questions by "Paul D. Kemp, Jr." 3) Re: newbie lip questions by Earl Needham 4) RE: newbie lip questions by "Avery, Ray (232)" 5) RE: newbie lip questions by "Avery, Ray (232)" 6) Re: Fw: Midland CD Club Customer update by "Chuck De Paolo" 7) Lip meds/DCT by "Elisabeth Frederick" 8) Re: newbie lip questions by David Buckley 9) Re: newbie lip questions by Gabriel Langfur 10) Re: newbie lip questions by "Galen McQuarrie" 11) More Housecleaning . . . by "Chris Waage" 12) Re: Fw: Midland CD Club Customer update by Gabriel Langfur 13) Re:Midland CD Club Customer update by "Denny Seifried" 14) Re: newbie lip questions by robert.osterlund@attbi.com 15) Re: 2B+3B by Ed E Neeley 16) Re: newbie lip questions by Roger Hecht 17) Re: newbie lip questions by Roger Hecht 18) RE: newbie lip questions by "Galen McQuarrie" 19) RE: newbie lip questions by "Tom Izzo" 20) Re: 2B+3B by alex iles 21) Re: newbie lip questions by emrose79@pacbell.net 22) RE: newbie lip questions by Roger Hecht 23) Mouthpieces for Sale by Randy Campora 24) Re: newbie lip questions by ALFORDMB@aol.com 25) Serocki Question by Chris Waage 26) 2B+ by BillTole1@aol.com 27) Re: 2B+ by "D.J. Kennedy" 28) US bands on the map by "Keith Marr" 29) by "The Shipleys" ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2453 Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 19:15:34 +0200 From: Howard Weiner To: mail@gothicway.fsnet.co.uk, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Fw: Midland CD Club Customer update Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020717185711.009faca0@mail.sampo.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 13:05 17.07.02 +0100, Keith Marr wrote: Midland CD ClubI thought my name was embarrassing, how about this guy. (Mind where you step!) It comes from an email from the Midland CD Club New Cd's added to our Brass Ensemble and Military Categories BES0209 The Best of Timofei Dokshitser Ah, the pitfalls of transliterating Russian names (written in Cyrilic letters) into Latin letters! The preferred spelling is "Timofey Dokshizer," and he is one of the greats of the Russian school of trumpet playing. Howard -- Howard Weiner weiner@privat.toplink.de http://www.odilia.ch/howard-weiner If vegetarians eat only vegetables, what do humanitarians eat? ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2453 Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:54:11 -0400 From: "Paul D. Kemp, Jr." To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: newbie lip questions Message-ID: <027401c22dba$f56e78e0$695b4d0c@bigshark> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0271_01C22D99.6DBC5320" Dear Ray and Steve, ÊÊÊIt will take you time to build up your endurance. How much time? I don't know, but I do believe that it differs for everyone. Here are some pointers thatÊI believe will help. 1. Don't think about it so much. Your main focus should be on the sound that you are producing, no matter what registerÊin which you are playing. 2. That being said, spend at least 15-25 minutes a day re-introducing yourself to good fundamentals--proper embouchure, deep breathing, correct slide placement. Practice slowly so thatÊcorrect muscle memory in these areas will become more automatic, then you can forget about it. 3. Break your practice up into smaller segments of time. 15-25 minutes max, then take a break for about 10-15 minutes. However, make sure that in the time that you are practicing, you're really concentrating on making some aspect of your playing better. If you get to the point that you're practicing your mistakes, you're either practicing too fast, or you've overloaded your brain to the point that it can't function well. 4. If you're really practicing,Êand you're making improvement in small percentages, after about 1 1/2-2 hours, your brain will be pretty well spent. Something to remember, and I got this from Reginald Fink's book THE TROMBONIST'S HANDBOOK--There was a race car driver that was interviewed and he said that it took him 8 YEARS to learn to totally concentrate for a 3ÊHOUR race.ÊMost students thatÊI encounter do not really know what it means to concentrate, and that's something that has to be practiced too. Many times we get sloppy in our practice, and simply put, that comes from a lack, however soÊslight, of total concentration. Perfection is a very high standard, and even though, being an imperfect being, you'll never attain it, you should always try to make some aspect ofÊyour playing better.ÊThat needs to be defined before you ever put the horn up to your face. IfÊyou haven't defined what it is your trying to improve, then more than likely you're not going to improveÊanything very much. Especially with trombone playing, your biggest improvement will come when you can execute things slowly and consistently, then gradually speed them up.Ê Getting back to your subject of building endurance, look at it this way. A weight lifter builds strength by doing more repetitions with lighter weights. As the lighter weights become too light, then the weight is increased somewhat, and the muscles actually start to "burn"Ê--they get hot and they may actually hurt somewhat, and that is caused by a buildup of lactic acid, and that needs to be flushed out of the muscles by drinking plenty of water, and also resting to allow the bloodstream to bring the necessary oxygen to theÊaffected muscles.ÊOur embouchures are the same way, and the main thing that you need to remember is that you must always make sure that you have an adequate air supply in order cause the aperture to vibrate.ÊHigh playing and loud playing take more embouchure strength, and if you're becoming exhausted too quickly, thenÊit's possible that you're trying to play too loud or too high for too long. Take in enough so that you can waste it--it's free, it doesn't cost you anything.ÊRest is EXTREMELY important,Ênot only for the mind, but for the embouchure as well. Ê Hope these things help.ÊNow perhaps you can understand why orchestra services are only 2 1/2 hours long with a 15 minute break after the first 75 minutes. The concentration that is supposed to go on, (and that does go on in really first rate ensembles) is absolutely formidable. Paul Kemp Chattanooga Symphony www.trbnplyr.comÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ ----- Original Message ----- From: Avery, Ray (232) To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 11:42 AM Subject: RE: newbie lip questions This is my first post on this forum...so I hope I get it right. I agree with Steve. Though not a newbie, I can't play 5 hrs per day like I did in college years ago. After 45 minutes of solid playing, my lips start to get worn out. With a 10-15 minute break I can continue and get a good 1 1/2 hours in. If I try to push it beyond my endurance limit, the next day is horrible - I lose my upper range. I tend to do much the same as Steve. Ray AveryÊ -----Original Message----- From: SteveInside@aol.com [mailto:SteveInside@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 11:03 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Re: newbie lip questions Hi Berto You might not want to hear from another newbie, but here's my experience for you to read or discard as it suits you. I have similar problems and I get a sense of lost mobility, increased thickness and poor sound when this is happening. It sounds as though you can't easily do what Walter and DJ are suggesting because of your schedule but their idea of little and often works really well for me and I use it quite a bit. However, at some point I find I do need to get to the point where I can do longer sessions just to get enough work in. If a decent warm up takes, say, fifteen or twenty minutes, then by the time that's over, if I only do another ten minutes I know I'll have to go through the warm up again later the same day just to get some work done on the horn. OR, the warm up is my practice, which has some merit I appreciate. And that's exactly what I do if I've had a layoff of a couple of days due to my schedule or a holiday of something. First day back I do only ten minutes or so sticking to gentle long tones. Second day I do that in the morning and again in the afternoon or evening. Third day I extend the first session of the day to maybe half and hour and then maybe do another fifteen minutes or a little more if it's feeling good later in the day. Then by day four I'm working towards more extended sessions in each day and able to do the exercises and some music. and that seems to work for me in getting past this feeling of bruising that I do sometimes get. Just my experience but I hope it's of some use. Steve ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2453 Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:59:19 -0600 From: Earl Needham To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: newbie lip questions Message-ID: <4.2.2.20020717115510.0102db38@pop3.norton.antivirus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 12:53 PM 7/17/2002 +0000, robert.osterlund@attbi.com wrote: Should I use lip balm? How often? Which one? The one question where I have a solid preference and I feel comfortable answering. First, AVOID CAMPHOR AT ALL COSTS. Camphor will feel good initially, but will lead to drying out and eventually you will need more, dry more, need more, etc., until finally you can't do without it and trying to do without it will make your lips crack badly. The one I like the best is DCT ointment, a Blistex product. It contains no camphor, but mostly petrolatum, cocoa butter, etc. You can usually find it in the drug aisle of major stores, but Wal Mart here has quit carrying it, so I have to find it at Walgreens. Some people use plain Vaseline, too, BTW. How often? I use it when my lips start to chap from being in the wind too much. To that end, I keep a container in my pocket at all times. The container is a good bit smaller than a snuff can and is easy to carry around. Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB, Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk KD5XB-2>APW251,PCSAT-1%:=3425.83N/10313.55W-PHG7150/WinAPRS 2.5.1 -EARL_CLOVIS -251-<630> Did you get a letter from Nigeria offering a "deal"? See http://home.rica.net/alphae/419coal/ and http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/Crimes/Business/nigerian.htm ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2453 Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:13:53 -0400 From: "Avery, Ray (232)" To: needhame@yucca.net, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: newbie lip questions Message-ID: <8EA4E29BDDB9DD40AB16D71F40DE45E9111190@harvardgrp.harvardgrp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I've been carrying a tube of blistex with me everywhere for the past 10 years. I used to have trouble with chapped lips and blistex seemed to work best. As a side benefit, when the lips start to ache, using blistex seems to help - but it may just be psychological. Ray Avery Director, Human Resources Harvard Custom Manufacturing, Inc. 607-687-7669 -----Original Message----- From: Earl Needham [mailto:needhame@yucca.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 1:59 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Re: newbie lip questions At 12:53 PM 7/17/2002 +0000, robert.osterlund@attbi.com wrote: > >Should I use lip balm? How often? Which one? The one question where I have a solid preference and I feel comfortable answering. First, AVOID CAMPHOR AT ALL COSTS. Camphor will feel good initially, but will lead to drying out and eventually you will need more, dry more, need more, etc., until finally you can't do without it and trying to do without it will make your lips crack badly. The one I like the best is DCT ointment, a Blistex product. It contains no camphor, but mostly petrolatum, cocoa butter, etc. You can usually find it in the drug aisle of major stores, but Wal Mart here has quit carrying it, so I have to find it at Walgreens. Some people use plain Vaseline, too, BTW. How often? I use it when my lips start to chap from being in the wind too much. To that end, I keep a container in my pocket at all times. The container is a good bit smaller than a snuff can and is easy to carry around. Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB, Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk KD5XB-2>APW251,PCSAT-1%:=3425.83N/10313.55W-PHG7150/WinAPRS 2.5.1 -EARL_CLOVIS -251-<630> Did you get a letter from Nigeria offering a "deal"? See http://home.rica.net/alphae/419coal/ and http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/Crimes/Business/nigerian.htm ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2453 Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:29:09 -0400 From: "Avery, Ray (232)" To: paul@trbnplyr.com, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: newbie lip questions Message-ID: <8EA4E29BDDB9DD40AB16D71F40DE45E91111C9@harvardgrp.harvardgrp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C22DBF.D72FC230" Paul, I've found everything you said to be true. I have been playing for nearly 40 years, but seriously only for the past year or so. Not being a professional,ÊI fit my practice and playing time in when I can. I find on weekends I play a lot more and your comments on the rest time are very true. If I play 4-5 hours total between Sat and Sun, I need to do a light "workout" on Monday. Normally, I can usually go about 45 minutes before I need a break. Being a bass trombone player, the high range wears me out much quicker, so I usually end up the last 15 minutes playing tuba solos to relax the embouchure. Working on the fundamentals that you referred to has helped tremendously. I dusted off my Remington exercises from college and have been using some of Doug Yeo's exercises from his book. I've read Sam Burtis' book and one of these days want to try his practice philosophy - at this point I've just dabbled with it. Ray Avery -----Original Message----- From: Paul D. Kemp, Jr. [mailto:paul@trbnplyr.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 1:54 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Re: newbie lip questions Dear Ray and Steve, ÊÊÊIt will take you time to build up your endurance. How much time? I don't know, but I do believe that it differs for everyone. Here are some pointers thatÊI believe will help. 1. Don't think about it so much. Your main focus should be on the sound that you are producing, no matter what registerÊin which you are playing. 2. That being said, spend at least 15-25 minutes a day re-introducing yourself to good fundamentals--proper embouchure, deep breathing, correct slide placement. Practice slowly so thatÊcorrect muscle memory in these areas will become more automatic, then you can forget about it. 3. Break your practice up into smaller segments of time. 15-25 minutes max, then take a break for about 10-15 minutes. However, make sure that in the time that you are practicing, you're really concentrating on making some aspect of your playing better. If you get to the point that you're practicing your mistakes, you're either practicing too fast, or you've overloaded your brain to the point that it can't function well. 4. If you're really practicing,Êand you're making improvement in small percentages, after about 1 1/2-2 hours, your brain will be pretty well spent. Something to remember, and I got this from Reginald Fink's book THE TROMBONIST'S HANDBOOK--There was a race car driver that was interviewed and he said that it took him 8 YEARS to learn to totally concentrate for a 3ÊHOUR race.ÊMost students thatÊI encounter do not really know what it means to concentrate, and that's something that has to be practiced too. Many times we get sloppy in our practice, and simply put, that comes from a lack, however soÊslight, of total concentration. Perfection is a very high standard, and even though, being an imperfect being, you'll never attain it, you should always try to make some aspect ofÊyour playing better.ÊThat needs to be defined before you ever put the horn up to your face. IfÊyou haven't defined what it is your trying to improve, then more than likely you're not going to improveÊanything very much. Especially with trombone playing, your biggest improvement will come when you can execute things slowly and consistently, then gradually speed them up.Ê Getting back to your subject of building endurance, look at it this way. A weight lifter builds strength by doing more repetitions with lighter weights. As the lighter weights become too light, then the weight is increased somewhat, and the muscles actually start to "burn"Ê--they get hot and they may actually hurt somewhat, and that is caused by a buildup of lactic acid, and that needs to be flushed out of the muscles by drinking plenty of water, and also resting to allow the bloodstream to bring the necessary oxygen to theÊaffected muscles.ÊOur embouchures are the same way, and the main thing that you need to remember is that you must always make sure that you have an adequate air supply in order cause the aperture to vibrate.ÊHigh playing and loud playing take more embouchure strength, and if you're becoming exhausted too quickly, thenÊit's possible that you're trying to play too loud or too high for too long. Take in enough so that you can waste it--it's free, it doesn't cost you anything.ÊRest is EXTREMELY important,Ênot only for the mind, but for the embouchure as well. Ê Hope these things help.ÊNow perhaps you can understand why orchestra services are only 2 1/2 hours long with a 15 minute break after the first 75 minutes. The concentration that is supposed to go on, (and that does go on in really first rate ensembles) is absolutely formidable. Paul Kemp Chattanooga Symphony www.trbnplyr.comÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ ----- Original Message ----- From: Avery, Ray (232) To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 11:42 AM Subject: RE: newbie lip questions This is my first post on this forum...so I hope I get it right. I agree with Steve. Though not a newbie, I can't play 5 hrs per day like I did in college years ago. After 45 minutes of solid playing, my lips start to get worn out. With a 10-15 minute break I can continue and get a good 1 1/2 hours in. If I try to push it beyond my endurance limit, the next day is horrible - I lose my upper range. I tend to do much the same as Steve. Ray AveryÊ -----Original Message----- From: SteveInside@aol.com [mailto:SteveInside@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 11:03 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Re: newbie lip questions Hi Berto You might not want to hear from another newbie, but here's my experience for you to read or discard as it suits you. I have similar problems and I get a sense of lost mobility, increased thickness and poor sound when this is happening. It sounds as though you can't easily do what Walter and DJ are suggesting because of your schedule but their idea of little and often works really well for me and I use it quite a bit. However, at some point I find I do need to get to the point where I can do longer sessions just to get enough work in. If a decent warm up takes, say, fifteen or twenty minutes, then by the time that's over, if I only do another ten minutes I know I'll have to go through the warm up again later the same day just to get some work done on the horn. OR, the warm up is my practice, which has some merit I appreciate. And that's exactly what I do if I've had a layoff of a couple of days due to my schedule or a holiday of something. First day back I do only ten minutes or so sticking to gentle long tones. Second day I do that in the morning and again in the afternoon or evening. Third day I extend the first session of the day to maybe half and hour and then maybe do another fifteen minutes or a little more if it's feeling good later in the day. Then by day four I'm working towards more extended sessions in each day and able to do the exercises and some music. and that seems to work for me in getting past this feeling of bruising that I do sometimes get. Just my experience but I hope it's of some use. Steve ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2453 Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:45:33 -0400 From: "Chuck De Paolo" To: "Trombone List" Subject: Re: Fw: Midland CD Club Customer update Message-ID: <00cc01c22db1$5f4da2e0$0200a8c0@ws2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>New Cd's added to our Brass Ensemble and Military Categories >> >>BES0209 The Best of Timofei Dokshitser > >Ah, the pitfalls of transliterating Russian names (written in Cyrilic >letters) into Latin letters! > >The preferred spelling is "Timofey Dokshizer," and he is one of the greats >of the Russian school of trumpet playing. We have some goodies here too. For pianists, if you want to sound like s**t, obtain a copy of our item 08663, Schytte: Short & Melodious Etudes for Piano (G. Schirmer). (Actually, it's out of print - sorry). And if you're a violinist and you want to suck, check out any of the various books or solos by Joseph Suk. Haven't found a good one for trombone yet. ---Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: Howard Weiner To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 1:15 PM Subject: Re: Fw: Midland CD Club Customer update At 13:05 17.07.02 +0100, Keith Marr wrote: >Midland CD ClubI thought my name was embarrassing, how about this guy. (Mind >where you step!) It comes from an email from the Midland CD Club > > >New Cd's added to our Brass Ensemble and Military Categories > >BES0209 The Best of Timofei Dokshitser Ah, the pitfalls of transliterating Russian names (written in Cyrilic letters) into Latin letters! The preferred spelling is "Timofey Dokshizer," and he is one of the greats of the Russian school of trumpet playing. Howard -- Howard Weiner weiner@privat.toplink.de http://www.odilia.ch/howard-weiner If vegetarians eat only vegetables, what do humanitarians eat? ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2453 Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:46:53 -0700 From: "Elisabeth Frederick" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Lip meds/DCT Message-ID: <000f01c22dc2$5262b0a0$da72fb3f@d9h2z9> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Should I use lip balm? How often? Which one? > > The one question where I have a solid preference and I feel > comfortable answering. > > First, AVOID CAMPHOR AT ALL COSTS. Camphor will feel good > initially, but will lead to drying out and eventually you will need more, > dry more, need more, etc., until finally you can't do without it and trying > to do without it will make your lips crack badly. > > The one I like the best is DCT ointment, a Blistex product. It > contains no camphor, but mostly petrolatum, cocoa butter, etc. You can > usually find it in the drug aisle of major stores, but Wal Mart here has > quit carrying it, so I have to find it at Walgreens. > I have also been told that camphor is bad if you are in the sun. DCT is great because it has sunscreen in it too....keeps you from getting wrinkled lips?? maybe not, but keeps them nice. And, be sure not to wash it, its great for your lips but does a number on your clothes.....I've given a number of my shirts an interesting spotted appearance.... Liz ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2453 Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:19:42 -0400 From: David Buckley To: needhame@yucca.net Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: newbie lip questions Message-ID: <3D35C34E.42492517@sympatico.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Several years ago at an ITF seminar, Ian Bousfield, principal at Vienna Phil, formerly of the LSO, advocated the use of Preparation H for swollen lips. He stated that he warms up for 10/15 minutes, then applies Prep H and after 20/30 minutes goes back to practicing. After all it shrinks swollen membranes. Just remember to have 2 tubes at home. Honestly I am not making this up. I do feel that if you are getting this swelling, you are pushing the mouthpiece too hard against your face. Play gently for most of your practice. You will find that eventually, if you warm up very slowly so that the chops and the breathing apparatus are completely flexible, then you will be able to work very hard with no damage to your face for a reaonably long period. After all these are muscles and your effort at full throttle will be similar to a baseball pitcher so you've got to get loose. Keep in the middle and low ranges a lot and limit the high and hard until you no longer have problems. Dave. Earl Needham wrote: > At 12:53 PM 7/17/2002 +0000, robert.osterlund@attbi.com wrote: > > > >Should I use lip balm? How often? Which one? > > The one question where I have a solid preference and I feel > comfortable answering. > > First, AVOID CAMPHOR AT ALL COSTS. Camphor will feel good > initially, but will lead to drying out and eventually you will need more, > dry more, need more, etc., until finally you can't do without it and trying > to do without it will make your lips crack badly. > > The one I like the best is DCT ointment, a Blistex product. It > contains no camphor, but mostly petrolatum, cocoa butter, etc. You can > usually find it in the drug aisle of major stores, but Wal Mart here has > quit carrying it, so I have to find it at Walgreens. > > Some people use plain Vaseline, too, BTW. > > How often? I use it when my lips start to chap from being in the > wind too much. To that end, I keep a container in my pocket at all > times. The container is a good bit smaller than a snuff can and is easy to > carry around. > > Earl > > Earl Needham, KD5XB, Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk > KD5XB-2>APW251,PCSAT-1%:=3425.83N/10313.55W-PHG7150/WinAPRS 2.5.1 > -EARL_CLOVIS -251-<630> > Did you get a letter from Nigeria offering a "deal"? See > http://home.rica.net/alphae/419coal/ and > http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/Crimes/Business/nigerian.htm ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2453 Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:52:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: newbie lip questions Message-ID: <20020717195242.69569.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- robert.osterlund@attbi.com wrote: > It's not yet to the point of being painful. The > purpling would suggesting bruising, however. I don't think so, actually - or at least not serious bruising. You probably just have increased blood flow to that area from all the vibrations, causing minor bruising that you probably don;t need to worry about if it's not painful. If you're bruising seriously you would feel pain - real, un-ignorable pain. You will not want to play on bruised chops, and that is the time to rest. I remember the point at which I began to take the trombone really seriously and practice every day, and then the further point when I switched to bass trombone (with a very different rim) and started practicing A LOT every day. For quite a while (months, maybe even a couple of years) my lips looked pretty awful, and now, years later, I can't say they look normal - not awful, but certainly not normal. Because I have very fair skin, my red ring pretty much never goes away, and the lip tissue inside the rim is a different color from the lip tissue outside the ring. This is normal for a serious brass player. If you are practicing an hour every day, I would consider you serious, even if your skill level is pretty low right now. My advice would be that you don't need to worry about your chops unless you feel pain - and follow the advice you've gotten about minimizing pressure, etc. That's all very important and will serve you well in the long run. Gabe ===== Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -- Philip K. Dick __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2453 Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:54:43 -0700 From: "Galen McQuarrie" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: newbie lip questions Message-ID: <000601c22dcb$cd3af7c0$6401a8c0@pocketinet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, this lends itself to all sorts of droll commentary and plays upon words. It does make some sense, however since the tissues involved are very similar in make-up. I am not sure how much scientific evidence there is for it's effectiveness. It certainly couldn't hurt. I wonder if Ian Bousfield wipes his lips off with TUCKS first? Galen McQuarrie ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Buckley" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 12:19 PM Subject: Re: newbie lip questions | Several years ago at an ITF seminar, Ian Bousfield, principal at Vienna Phil, | formerly of the LSO, advocated the use of Preparation H for swollen lips. He | stated that he warms up for 10/15 minutes, then applies Prep H and after 20/30 | minutes goes back to practicing. After all it shrinks swollen membranes. Just | remember to have 2 tubes at home. | | Honestly I am not making this up. | | I do feel that if you are getting this swelling, you are pushing the mouthpiece | too hard against your face. Play gently for most of your practice. You will | find that eventually, if you warm up very slowly so that the chops and the | breathing apparatus are completely flexible, then you will be able to work very | hard with no damage to your face for a reaonably long period. After all these | are muscles and your effort at full throttle will be similar to a baseball | pitcher so you've got to get loose. Keep in the middle and low ranges a lot and | limit the high and hard until you no longer have problems. | | Dave. | | Earl Needham wrote: | | > At 12:53 PM 7/17/2002 +0000, robert.osterlund@attbi.com wrote: | > > | > >Should I use lip balm? How often? Which one? | > | > The one question where I have a solid preference and I feel | > comfortable answering. | > | > First, AVOID CAMPHOR AT ALL COSTS. Camphor will feel good | > initially, but will lead to drying out and eventually you will need more, | > dry more, need more, etc., until finally you can't do without it and trying | > to do without it will make your lips crack badly. | > | > The one I like the best is DCT ointment, a Blistex product. It | > contains no camphor, but mostly petrolatum, cocoa butter, etc. You can | > usually find it in the drug aisle of major stores, but Wal Mart here has | > quit carrying it, so I have to find it at Walgreens. | > | > Some people use plain Vaseline, too, BTW. | > | > How often? I use it when my lips start to chap from being in the | > wind too much. To that end, I keep a container in my pocket at all | > times. The container is a good bit smaller than a snuff can and is easy to | > carry around. | > | > Earl | > | > Earl Needham, KD5XB, Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk | > KD5XB-2>APW251,PCSAT-1%:=3425.83N/10313.55W-PHG7150/WinAPRS 2.5.1 | > -EARL_CLOVIS -251-<630> | > Did you get a letter from Nigeria offering a "deal"? See | > http://home.rica.net/alphae/419coal/ and | > http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/Crimes/Business/nigerian.htm | ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2453 Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:06:11 -0700 From: "Chris Waage" To: Subject: More Housecleaning . . . Message-ID: <200207171306.AA28377418@trombone.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I'm just running out of space for CDs, and I have to get rid of some duplicates, so I put them out on eBay: Chris ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2453 Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:23:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Fw: Midland CD Club Customer update Message-ID: <20020717212329.83717.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Chuck De Paolo wrote: > We have some goodies here too. For pianists, if you want > to sound like > s**t, obtain a copy of our item 08663, Schytte: Short & > Melodious Etudes for > Piano (G. Schirmer). (Actually, it's out of print - > sorry). And if you're > a violinist and you want to suck, check out any of the > various books or > solos by Joseph Suk. > > Haven't found a good one for trombone yet. > > ---Chuck Maybe we can convince Max Bonecutter to write a book. I also know trombonists named Mark Rohr and Hans Bohn. Gabe ===== Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -- Philip K. Dick __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2453 Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:31:12 -0400 From: "Denny Seifried" To: "Trombone List" Subject: Re:Midland CD Club Customer update Message-ID: <006901c22dd9$466ac230$fb5e5acf@seifriedcomp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Trombonists: How could we forget the Rhythmic Etudes by Marcel Bitsch. If I remember trying to play them, in my younger days, yes, they were a ***** !!!!! Denny Seifried Bass Trombone-Springfield (OH) Symphony & Dayton Jazz Orchestra Adjunct Trombone-Wittenberg Univ. Dept. of Music ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2453 Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 21:34:36 +0000 From: robert.osterlund@attbi.com To: glangfur@yahoo.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: newbie lip questions Message-ID: <20020717213437.ZAHI29588.sccrmhc01.attbi.com@rwcrwbc55> Gabe: > --- robert.osterlund@attbi.com wrote: > > It's not yet to the point of being painful. The > > purpling would suggesting bruising, however. > > I don't think so, actually - or at least not serious > bruising. You probably just have increased blood flow to > that area from all the vibrations, causing minor bruising > that you probably don;t need to worry about if it's not > painful. If you're bruising seriously you would feel pain - > real, un-ignorable pain. You will not want to play on > bruised chops, and that is the time to rest. That's what I've been thinking. From my observations, I don't think I've reached the point where I am doing serious, long-term damage to any tissues. Even after playing straight through without break for a full hour, I feel no pain. I just think I've tended to push things beyond the point of diminishing returns to negative returns, also to where my lips begin to look suspiciously bad and my body is trying to tell me something. > My advice would be that you don't need to worry about your > chops unless you feel pain - and follow the advice you've > gotten about minimizing pressure, etc. That's all very > important and will serve you well in the long run. Summarizing the best advice I've received so far, I should: --Take more time warming up. --Practice for shorter segments (ideally) interspersed throughout the day. --Use light mouthpiece pressure. (I already try to do that.) --Don't be afraid to take the day off, especially if one reaches the point of negative returns. --Keep at it, but slow and steady (okay, maybe with some cautious acceleration) wins the race. Berto -- robert.osterlund@attbi.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2453 Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:58:14 -0500 From: Ed E Neeley To: alexiles@earthlink.net Cc: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: 2B+3B Message-ID: <20020717.165815.-583097.0.edneeley@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mr. Iles: Do you have an opinion about the new King 2B plus? Ed ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2453 Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:49:32 -0400 From: Roger Hecht To: davebuckley@sympatico.ca, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: newbie lip questions Message-ID: <4.2.2.20020717174922.00a6a380@pop.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 03:19 PM 7/17/2002 -0400, David Buckley wrote: Several years ago at an ITF seminar, Ian Bousfield, principal at Vienna Phil, formerly of the LSO, advocated the use of Preparation H for swollen lips. He stated that he warms up for 10/15 minutes, then applies Prep H and after 20/30 minutes goes back to practicing. After all it shrinks swollen membranes. Just remember to have 2 tubes at home. I read somewhere that Prep H has drawbacks even when used as intended. I forget what they are, but it was something along the lines of the reaction between Prep H and 'roids as being not entirely benign. I'd look into this before trying it. Roger Hecht ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2453 Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 18:05:35 -0400 From: Roger Hecht To: robert.osterlund@attbi.com, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: newbie lip questions Message-ID: <4.2.2.20020717180509.00a5f770@pop.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed That's what I've been thinking. From my observations, I don't think I've reached the point where I am doing serious, long-term damage to any tissues. Even after playing straight through without break for a full hour, I feel no pain. I just think I've tended to push things beyond the point of diminishing returns to negative returns, also to where my lips begin to look suspiciously bad and my body is trying to tell me something. YOu may also have an equipment mismatch somewhere. I'm hardly a paradigm, but, for example, I always found light equipment tiring, especially over time. I've always been able to play much longer (at least 3 hours) with heavier equipment and (a recent discovery) not so big a mouthpiece (a 5 rather than a 4) and leadpipe. (The theory here might be a smaller, faster airstream is required to excited a heavier bell.) I'm a real airburner, and for some reason, a heavier bell helps me control my excess power. As for bruising, pain, etc., I have worked out for years on weights and a bicycle. The business about muscle burn is correct as I understand it. Otherwise, pain and perhaps redness--that I know less about--can be your body telling you something. Listen to it. When I haven't, I've either tired myself excessively and paid for it for a few days or actually hurt myself. Roger Hecht ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2453 Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:32:40 -0700 From: "Galen McQuarrie" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: newbie lip questions Message-ID: <89559E4ACC190243A6F92E32380D715C1BFFC6@white.pocketinet.com> content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -----Original Message----- From: Roger Hecht [mailto:rihecht@earthlink.net] Sent: Wed 7/17/2002 2:49 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Cc: Subject: Re: newbie lip questions I read somewhere that Prep H has drawbacks even when used as intended. I forget what they are, but it was something along the lines of the reaction between Prep H and 'roids as being not entirely benign. I'd look into this before trying it. Roger Hecht Basically Preparation H is a lanolin based cream with an astringint ("drying agent") and emoliants. It shouldn't be harmful unless you have a sensitivity to tone of the agents. Again, its one of those old agents that have been around a long time and has some anecdotal support, but nothing you can hang your hat on as far as hard staatistical evidence. Chapstick or like should do about as well. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2453 Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:38:25 -0500 From: "Tom Izzo" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: newbie lip questions Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Keep in mind, (Bob, you too) Bob has only been playing Trombone for 4 weeks! He is VERY dedicated in his practice routines. How many of the rest of us, kept that mouthpiece on our face for a solid hour 7 days a week from the VERY BEGINNING? Tom -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu]On Behalf Of Walter Barrett Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 8:32 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Re: newbie lip questions Thus spake, not Zarathustra, but robert.osterlund@attbi.com... > I would gladly practice more if not for concern > about my lips. I look in the mirror nowadays and see > this purplish pattern developing on my always tender, > always somewhat swollen lower lip. > Without actually seeing what your chops look like when you play, it's hard to diagnose, but I'd start here... 1- Don't play loud/blow hard 2- Don't press hard with the mpce., it only needs to be tight enough to keep the air from leaking. 3- Keep your lips flat, like saying the letter M. (Mmmm, that sounds good!) Don't let them protrude into the mpce. > I would practice beyond an hour a day but don't out of > fear the lips will become so bad that I will (a) have to > stop playing for several days and/or (b) permanently > damage my lips. The lips are not so bad that (b) is a > real worry, but (a) is a concern. I feel that daily > practice is needed to sustain my momentum. > You might want to take a day or two off to give your lips a chance to recover. You already practice a lot more than most of my students, most of which I'd be happy to see practice an hour a week! > Teacher says that I will develop lip stamina over time. > How exactly does this come about? Does one develop > calluses on the lips? A proper technique that minimizes > wear and tear on the lips? A kind of stoic toughness > that just accepts sore lips as the price one pays for > being a brass instrument player? > Calluses? No. Stoic toughness? Well, a little... Proper technique? Definitely! > Should I use lip balm? How often? Which one? > It sounds to me like your lips are bruised, and balms won't help too much with that. Maybe a little ice, and/or some aspirin/ibuprofen. Balms are more for chapped lips, although those with menthol will feel cool, and might sooth your lips a bit. > Would this be a pointless exercise? I just practice my > sliding (following the printed music) without actually > blowing the mouthpiece? Not pointless at all! Sometimes learning to play an instrument can seem like trying to juggle 5 balls at once. By just doing the slide without actually making a sound, it's like you're learning to juggle 2 balls. You can concentrate on just one element, instead of many. Once you get juggling balls down, then it's time to try chainsaws... -- Walter Barrett "If you practice, you get better. If you get better, you play with better players. If you play with better players, you play better music. If you play better music, you have more fun. If you have fun, you want to practice more. If you practice more, you get better....." -Doug Yeo Yamaha Artist/Clinician Tenor, Alto, Bass Trombones Euphonium Bass Trumpet Tuba ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2453 Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:23:34 -0800 From: alex iles To: edneeley@juno.com, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: 2B+3B Message-ID: <3D360A76.A8ADA940@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Ed, Since you asked...:-) I tried a couple of 2B+'s at the NAMM show last January. Although that was in less-than-ideal/real playing conditions [noisy, crowded room, long-lost friends dropping by], the horn felt great in comparison to the other horns I tried that day. I think it is worth a look if you are going for a sound a little less "zippy" than a standard 2B [.491/485 dual bore] or Jiggs model [.491/491]. It still seemed plenty compact to my standard 2B sensibilities, though. It might be a nice alternative for a 2B-player looking for less "edge" or a Bach 12 player looking for a tad more "brilliance". I think that UMI is making/going to make the small bore King trombones components [7.5 ", 8" bells in several materials, all the slides I mentioned earlier and several lead pipes, long and short tuning slides] available in custom combinations like they do with all the Conn 88H models now. If they do that, the possibilities are almost endless. Could be a smart move. The players will be able to try more options without having to call up a repairmen to make the modifications every time! Are there any listerines who went to the UMI booth at ITF [or have spoken with any UMI folks lately] wish to share any insights on this one? Alex ----------------------------------------------------------- Ed E Neeley wrote: > Mr. Iles: > > Do you have an opinion about the new King 2B plus? > > Ed > > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2453 Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:50:30 -0700 From: emrose79@pacbell.net Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: newbie lip questions Message-ID: <3D3602C6.B630735D@pacbell.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Tom...I've practiced for a solid hour 7 days a week, of course you'd have to spread out the seven days over 40 years or so!..oh..wait..do you mean a solid hour all at one time??? anyway, Tom I now have my BBb contra. and let me use this to say once again....you can spend as much time as you want wrapping the outside of the case, worrying if the baggage handlers will put a scratch in it, but if you don't make sure that the 'bone is absolutely motionless..that is..unable to move at all....you might end up with a very nice crinkle in the bell, as I did (in fact, the crinkle in the contra is quite nasty)...on the last two horns shipped to me...Both had only about 1/8 inch movement.... Ed Tom Izzo wrote: > > Keep in mind, (Bob, you too) Bob has only been playing Trombone for 4 weeks! > He is VERY dedicated in his practice routines. How many of the rest of us, > kept that mouthpiece on our face for a solid hour 7 days a week from the > VERY BEGINNING? > > Tom > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2453 Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 20:08:58 -0400 From: Roger Hecht To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: newbie lip questions Message-ID: <4.2.2.20020717200829.00a202c0@pop.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 05:38 PM 7/17/2002 -0500, Tom Izzo wrote: Keep in mind, (Bob, you too) Bob has only been playing Trombone for 4 weeks! Whoops. Missed that. Point taken. Roger Hecht ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2453 Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 21:33:59 -0400 From: Randy Campora To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Mouthpieces for Sale Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020717213210.025b0c70@pop3.norton.antivirus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Just FYI, I have some mouthpieces for sale on ebay, you can do a search for "bass trombone" and they will all pop up. An East German Schmidt, a couple Schilkes and a Yamaha. Had to clean out the locker at the end of the summer... ~Randy Campora ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2453 Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 21:38:31 EDT From: ALFORDMB@aol.com To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: newbie lip questions Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit wrote: > I couldn't practice at all yesterday. (From work, I > drove three hours yesterday from Chicago up to Madison, > Wisconsin to attend the Piffaro concert at the Madison > Early Music Festival. Then it was a three-hour drive > back to Chicago and return to work at 6 AM this > morning. I made a similar trip on Tuesday but as always took my MPC and periodically buzzed along with tunes on the radio. I went 30-some years without blowing and started again nearly 2 years ago. I've been very serious about it (and have gotten tremendous enjoyment and satisfaction out of it) and am still not where I want to be as far as embouchere "toughness." Old muscles are hard to train, and they lose ground very rapidly, but I'm miles closer! My advice: stick with it; work smartly; tough it out; it's worth it if you want to do it. Playing brass is great and trombone is king. Mike Alford ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2453 Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 20:54:56 -0500 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: Serocki Question Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I recently purchased a stack of music, and included in the stack were both the Sonatina and Concerto by Serocki. Is the Concerto out of print? I haven't been able to find it anywhere (researching for pricing purposes). Chris -- ________________________________________________ Chris Waage, Associate Webmaster chris@trombone.org http://www.trombone.org - A web site for trombonists ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2453 Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:19:55 EDT From: BillTole1@aol.com To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: 2B+ Message-ID: <128.147fb2b8.2a677fcb@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_128.147fb2b8.2a677fcb_boundary" Hello everyone, Regarding the 2B+ question; The 2B+ slide fits the 3B bell, but will not fit the 2B bell. They had to make room for the larger bore ....I have the 2B+ and love it, Regards, Bill Tole www.billtole.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2453 Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 23:53:41 -0500 From: "D.J. Kennedy" To: BillTole1@aol.com, harykoz , eeearly Anderson , urbie Garcia , Subject: Re: 2B+ Message-ID: <3D3649D5.9AC6BD86@midwest.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------D0C24F137F5BBBD3A0096DE8" helllllo bill !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! do you happen to know what frame the benge custom 170 500//500 is built on ----it looks king --but 2b or 3b ?????? guys with gigs in chicago are liking the +++++ and even the ancient mariner early anderson has been blowing moonlight in vermont on one -hey are you getting any chop time in bw ?? rudy garcia says ralph is happy with the new kids from disney BillTole1@aol.com wrote: Hello everyone, Regarding the 2B+ question; The 2B+ slide fits the 3B bell, but will not fit the 2B bell. They had to make room for the larger bore ....I have the 2B+ and love it, Regards, Bill Tole www.billtole.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2453 Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 15:28:41 +0100 From: "Keith Marr" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: US bands on the map Message-ID: <009801c22e69$0ec91c60$c22886d9@Steelman> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just noticed that a couple of US bands have made it into the 4BarsRest world top 75. Does this mean you guys are getting the hang of playing brass now! See the complete list on http://www.4barsrest.com/rankings/rankings.asp - Brass Band Columbus and Illinois Brass Band are new entries at 72nd and 73rd place respectively. Keith in Bb/F/D ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2453 Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:00:02 -0400 From: "The Shipleys" To: Message-ID: <000301c22e6b$ce04e1c0$7a2a9f18@chartertn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C22E4A.46F341C0" Hi All, I have a Yamaha Doug Yeo Signature Series Mouthpiece for sale. It is in great condition but has normal shank wear. This is a great playing mouthpiece and is very comfortable to the embouchure. I am asking $85.00 + shipping. International buyers welcome but be prepared for higher shipping. Please contact me at alanshipley@chartertn.net for more details or payment info. Thanks, Todd Shipley Kingsport, TN ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2453--