TROMBONE-L Digest 2420 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) RE: Gurrelieder? by "Edward Solomon" 2) Re: Gurrelieder? by Brian French 3) Anti-piracy Music Recording Format by "Chris Waage" 4) RE: Anti-piracy Music Recording Format by "Jon Moeller" 5) RE: Anti-piracy Music Recording Format by "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" 6) Re: Anti-piracy Music Recording Format by "Daniel Pliskin" 7) Re: Williams Newz//////williams trombones and parts by "D.J. Kennedy" 8) L.A. Listers: Father's Day w/ Bill Watrous by "Les Benedict" 9) Tucson Bound! by "Paul Hill" 10) Re: Roy Lawler Still Exists by Bruce Guttman 11) Thayer issue... by "Jason Akai" 12) RE: Thayer issue... by "Jeff Albert" 13) Re: Thayer issue... by Jay Heltzer 14) Jazz Trombone at Cezannes in Houston by "greg waits" 15) Re High Range was lip rehab by SteveInside@aol.com 16) RE: Thayer issue... by "Dicaro, Pete" 17) Re: high range was RE: lip rehab was: Gardner Read:"Invocation" by "David Guion" 18) RE: Re High Range was lip rehab by "Jeff Albert" 19) Re: Re High Range was lip rehab by Gabriel Langfur 20) Good story, was RE: Re High Range was lip rehab by Gabriel Langfur 21) Re: Thayer issue... by Jim Preston 22) RE: Re High Range was lip rehab by "greg waits" 23) Re: Thayer issue... by Gabriel Langfur ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2420 Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 18:41:38 +0100 From: "Edward Solomon" To: "Trombone-L@Po.Missouri.Edu" Cc: Subject: RE: Gurrelieder? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gurrelieder being the work that it is (probably scored for one of the largest ever orchestras - SEVEN TROMBONES), there aren't that many recordings of it about. The most recent one to come out (within the last month) is the live Berlin Phil recording with Rattle on EMI, which seems to be getting rave reviews. The predecessor to that which all the critics went for is the Berlin RSO with Chailly on Decca. Prior to that, there are recordings by Boulez and Ozawa, though none caught the eyes and ears of the critics quite so much as the more recent two. Of the two (both of which I have, as well as the Ozawa), the Rattle is the more lucid and the textures seem to come across very well, which is amazing considering it was a live recording last September in the Philharmonie. However, for a good studio recording you can pick up the Chailly instead. Difficult to decide between them, but the singing on the Rattle recording probably favours that one over the Chailly. The sections you'll probably want to hold up to scrutiny are the end of the first movement (the Song of the Wood Dove), the whole of the second movement, and the first half and final section of the last movement. There are some amazing scorings in this work and it never ceases to astound me how many people don't realise Schoenberg ever even wrote tonal music like this! Enjoy!!! __________________________________________ Edward Solomon British Trombone Society Webmaster mailto:webmaster@trombone-society.org.uk Visit "The Trombonist Online" - the online magazine of the British Trombone Society http://www.trombone-society.org.uk __________________________________________ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2420 Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 16:10:33 -0400 From: Brian French To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Gurrelieder? Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thanks, everyone, for your Gurrelieder recommendations. I think I'll go with the Rattle, it'll be neat to hear (live) how he gets along with his new band. -Brian ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2420 Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 13:37:59 -0700 From: "Chris Waage" To: Subject: Anti-piracy Music Recording Format Message-ID: <200206131337.AA28115208@trombone.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii "Music bosses have unveiled a revolutionary new recording format that they hope will help win the war on illegal file sharing which is thought to be costing the industry millions of dollars in lost revenue. Nicknamed the 'Record,' the new format takes the form of a black, vinyl disc measuring 12 inches in diameter, which must be played on a specially designed 'turntable.' "'We can state with absolute certainty that no computer in the world can access the data on this disc,' said spokesman Brett Campbell. 'We are also confident that no-one is going to be able to produce pirate copies in this format without going to a heck of a lot of trouble. This is without doubt the best anti-piracy invention the music industry has ever seen.' "As part of the invention's rigorous testing process, the designers gave some discs to a group of teenage computer experts who regularly use file swapping software and who admit to pirating music CDs. Despite several days of trying, none of them were able to hack into the disc's code or access any of the music files contained within it... "In the new format, raw audio data in the form of music is encoded by physically etching grooves onto the vinyl disc. The sound is thus translated into variations on the disc's surface in a process that industry insiders are describing as 'completely revolutionary' and 'stunningly clever.' "To decode the data stored on the disc, the listener must use a special player which contains a 'needle' that runs along the grooves on the record surface, reading the indentations and transforming the movements back into audio that can be fed through loudspeakers..." ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2420 Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 16:09:16 -0500 From: "Jon Moeller" To: Subject: RE: Anti-piracy Music Recording Format Message-ID: <000401c2131e$94a170f0$5c50ee0c@jon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So feed the output into my computers microphone jack =) Pretty funny though... "completely REVOLUTIONary" hahaha -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu] On Behalf Of Chris Waage Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 3:38 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Anti-piracy Music Recording Format "Music bosses have unveiled a revolutionary new recording format that they hope will help win the war on illegal file sharing which is thought to be costing the industry millions of dollars in lost revenue. Nicknamed the 'Record,' the new format takes the form of a black, vinyl disc measuring 12 inches in diameter, which must be played on a specially designed 'turntable.' "'We can state with absolute certainty that no computer in the world can access the data on this disc,' said spokesman Brett Campbell. 'We are also confident that no-one is going to be able to produce pirate copies in this format without going to a heck of a lot of trouble. This is without doubt the best anti-piracy invention the music industry has ever seen.' "As part of the invention's rigorous testing process, the designers gave some discs to a group of teenage computer experts who regularly use file swapping software and who admit to pirating music CDs. Despite several days of trying, none of them were able to hack into the disc's code or access any of the music files contained within it... "In the new format, raw audio data in the form of music is encoded by physically etching grooves onto the vinyl disc. The sound is thus translated into variations on the disc's surface in a process that industry insiders are describing as 'completely revolutionary' and 'stunningly clever.' "To decode the data stored on the disc, the listener must use a special player which contains a 'needle' that runs along the grooves on the record surface, reading the indentations and transforming the movements back into audio that can be fed through loudspeakers..." ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2420 Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 16:29:26 -0500 From: "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" To: "'chris@trombone.org'" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Anti-piracy Music Recording Format Message-ID: <587F49FABBEDD411A68F00A0C9EA313B5FD36B@dasmthkhn561.amedd.army.mil> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C21321.647939F0" Chris: Does this make you an analoggie? Viva la revolution! Rick Marple San Antonio TX -----Original Message----- From: Chris Waage [mailto:chris@trombone.org] Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 3:38 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Anti-piracy Music Recording Format "Music bosses have unveiled a revolutionary new recording format that they hope will help win the war on illegal file sharing which is thought to be costing the industry millions of dollars in lost revenue. Nicknamed the 'Record,' the new format takes the form of a black, vinyl disc measuring 12 inches in diameter, which must be played on a specially designed 'turntable.' "'We can state with absolute certainty that no computer in the world can access the data on this disc,' said spokesman Brett Campbell. 'We are also confident that no-one is going to be able to produce pirate copies in this format without going to a heck of a lot of trouble. This is without doubt the best anti-piracy invention the music industry has ever seen.' "As part of the invention's rigorous testing process, the designers gave some discs to a group of teenage computer experts who regularly use file swapping software and who admit to pirating music CDs. Despite several days of trying, none of them were able to hack into the disc's code or access any of the music files contained within it... "In the new format, raw audio data in the form of music is encoded by physically etching grooves onto the vinyl disc. The sound is thus translated into variations on the disc's surface in a process that industry insiders are describing as 'completely revolutionary' and 'stunningly clever.' "To decode the data stored on the disc, the listener must use a special player which contains a 'needle' that runs along the grooves on the record surface, reading the indentations and transforming the movements back into audio that can be fed through loudspeakers..."Ê ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2420 Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 22:56:05 +0000 From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Anti-piracy Music Recording Format Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Chris, "To decode the data stored on the disc, the listener must use a special player which contains a 'needle' that runs along the grooves on the record surface, reading the indentations and transforming the movements back into audio that can be fed through loudspeakers..." You forgot to mention the whole mystique of a needle, made of diamond. But then, you used to have to use needles made of cactus thorn. It all sounds right out of Harry Potter and reminds me of the saying ãstranger than fictionä. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Join the worldâs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2420 Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 20:20:06 -0500 From: "D.J. Kennedy" To: Rudy Garcia , "tltltltltltltl forum." , Subject: Re: Williams Newz//////williams trombones and parts Message-ID: <3D0944C6.24BA920@midwest.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------76EA4B5D26C816AC5DFF1135" hello listers ---its richard chover -with williams if nobody set me straight -how woyld you cats get it right ??????? Rudy Garcia wrote: DEEJ,ÊThe William's cat name is RICHARD Chover....ÊThe "good" e-mail address is rbrmann@pe.net, I think this is Richard C's direct e-mail.ÊCall him at the "909" number listed on the Williams site.ÊRich is COOL!!!!!!!!Êlater...rgrog@rkmlaw.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2420 Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 18:48:17 -0700 From: "Les Benedict" To: Subject: L.A. Listers: Father's Day w/ Bill Watrous Message-ID: <003501c21345$8e1335d0$87211b42@mightyhru2si1z> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Father's Day, Sunday, June 16, I'll be performing with Horace Heidt, Jr. and his Musical Knights at Warner Park in Woodland Hills, CA. at 5:30 PM. Guest soloist is Bill Watrous. Warner Park is on Topanga Canyon Blvd. 1/2 mile or so north of the Ventura (101) Freeway. Great band, great weather expected, bring a picnic. Les Benedict lbenedict@socal.rr.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2420 Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 21:57:10 -0700 From: "Paul Hill" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Tucson Bound! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0001_01C21325.447DAD80" BoneHeads, Tomorrow morning I graduate from the US Naval War College andÊleaveÊNewport, RI for further adventures at the University of Arizona, where I will be running the Naval ROTC Unit. While in Newport, I had the great fortune to meet several trombonists from the Northeast Navy Band for Tbn Quartets, Quartet with Rhythm and Octets...terrific players and a wonderful experience for me - I will miss them. Particularly Jonathon Ward (if any of you know him, he isÊa superb player and is doing great things!). I will also miss beingÊway too close the Steve Shires'Êshop but my wallet will not! While here, I had another Bb/F/D horn built and was fortunate to spend a couple of hours withÊSteve's "valve man", Dean Foreman. Dean completely ran through both of my valve sections and "custom fit" my triggers, set the spring tension, and aligned the linkages...they work even better than before. Steve was very helpful inÊhelping me select components, allowing me to "test drive" several set-ups and ensured that quality control was uncompromising (Steve personally checked EVERYTHING). If you want a Shires instrument, nothing beats going in person... IÊapologize to the several list members with whom I was not able to connect during my year here but the schoolÊdemanded more of my time than I had anticipated - had just enough time to graduate with pretty decent grades, keep my playing in shape and spend some quality time with my family (there was that little matter of a second Daughter being born!). Have a great summer, everyone (practice lots!). Best Regards, Paul Paul Hill Bass Tbn Norfolk, San Diego, Washington, DC, Everett,ÊJuneau, Newport...Tuscon! (17 moves in 20 years (most of them cross-country) - no problem!) HAVE HORN - WILL TRAVEL! ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2420 Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 22:16:56 -0400 From: Bruce Guttman To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Roy Lawler Still Exists Message-ID: <200206132217_MC3-1-219-E11A@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In case you are having problems getting in touch with Roy directly, you can contact Bruce Lee at Northern Brass (www.northernbrass.com; BruceLee@NorthernBrass.com). Bruce is a trumpet player, and keeps a stock of Lawlor stuff. he deals nationwide. Just a shameless plug for a friend. Bruce Guttman Solo Trombone, Hollis Town Band Section Leader, Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2420 Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 03:31:28 +0000 From: "Jason Akai" To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Thayer issue... Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Im sure you guys have covered this before, but I have only been on the L list for a short time. I have an edwards bass bone with dual Thayer valves. My F rotor is sticking a LOT - I've put a lot of rotor oil in there (as had been suggested to me) to try to loosen it up, but its not working. Any thoughts/ideas? Ciao Jason _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2420 Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 22:55:06 -0500 From: "Jeff Albert" To: , "'Trombones and related issues forum.'" Subject: RE: Thayer issue... Message-ID: <000001c21357$4565d7e0$16279d42@jeff> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Have you ever mixed oils? I had a similar problem that come to find out was a result of putting a synthetic oil on a valve that still had some natural oil on it. It was quite gummy. jva -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu] On Behalf Of Jason Akai Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 10:31 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Thayer issue... Im sure you guys have covered this before, but I have only been on the L list for a short time. I have an edwards bass bone with dual Thayer valves. My F rotor is sticking a LOT - I've put a lot of rotor oil in there (as had been suggested to me) to try to loosen it up, but its not working. Any thoughts/ideas? Ciao Jason _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2420 Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 00:46:37 -0500 From: Jay Heltzer To: jasonakai@hotmail.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Thayer issue... Message-ID: <3D09833C.B3117873@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jason Akai wrote: > Im sure you guys have covered this before, but I have only been on the L > list for a short time. > > I have an edwards bass bone with dual Thayer valves. My F rotor is sticking > a LOT - I've put a lot of rotor oil in there (as had been suggested to me) > to try to loosen it up, but its not working. > > Any thoughts/ideas? > > Ciao > Jason The problem with a lot of oil is after a while, you end up "flooding the engine", and it begins to thicken. Another speculation is that you inherited a set of dirty valves. 9 times out of 10 valve problems, i.e.. sticking, are due to the fact that they are dirty. Add to that Jeff's suggestion of mixing oils, and you have a world of trouble. A good cleaning to any instrument you acquire - new or used - is like a great RESET button on your mechanisms. A clean slate. So give them a good cleaning, or of course my favorite, take them for a professional cleaning, and then check them out. You will see a huge difference. jay ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2420 Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 00:57:17 -0500 From: "greg waits" To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Jazz Trombone at Cezannes in Houston Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hello trombone-l members. Just a note to let you know that my jazz group, the Greg Waits Quartet (featuring drummer Ed Soph) will be appearing at Cezanne's in Houston next friday and saturday night (June 22 and 23) from 8-midnight. If you are in the Houston area, don't miss the chance to support live jazz. My group plays almost all original music, with an emphasis on a variety of grooves. I have written a new tango, two new bossas and a jazz trio, and I look forward to letting Ed loose on them! The cover charge is $12.00, but anyone who comes and lets me know they heard about this on trombone-l gets a free copy of my CD! Support Jazz Trombone! Thanks! Greg The Greg Waits Quartet Greg Waits - trombones Woody Witt - soprano/tenor saxes David Craig - bass Ed Soph - drums Greg Waits plays Bach trombones exclusively. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2420 Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 07:13:34 EDT From: SteveInside@aol.com To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re High Range was lip rehab Message-ID: <107.133bd71f.2a3b29de@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_107.133bd71f.2a3b29de_boundary" Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Language: en Interesting comments from Fred and Mike and a sound view from Jeff - thanks for that.Ê Sorry to bang on about this at such length (and I beg your forbearance on the teaching issue) Ñ but the issue for me isn't necessarily high range. I'm playing Mike's B natural and the C and D above that reasonably well but I don't do much work on them as they only occur in some scale and arpeggio workouts and on a couple of things I've learned by ear (Beautiful Love, track eight, JJ johnson, Let's Hang Out, EMARCY 514 454-2, for example). That goes to a top C and, in my playing, I can make that sing far more easily than, say the F or A below it which also occur. I'm having the same problem at third partial E and D. So MY problem isn't range per se, I think, so much as a transition from one way of playing to another. I think it's coming from what I've understood Sam Burtiss to refer in his book as my 'voices', i.e. those ranges that fall into (and in this case between) my embouchure settings. What seems to have happened is that in the past and when I began again recently, I used some kind of work arounds that made the frequently called for notes between 6th partial E and the Bnatural above it readily available. The outcome was that anything above that was pretty much a no go area for me, but as Jeff says, as it's so rarely asked for in a youth player, that wasn't a problem. Since beginning the buzzing exercises, I believe I have stopped using the work arounds and the outcome is that I'm finding sixth partial F, F#, G, Aflat, A and seventh partial Bflat are becoming steadily less available and less certain, when I would have described them as a fairly safe area for me after a good warm up a couple of months in. The opening up of cracking and uncertainty at third partial E, Eflat and D has been even more alarming, because that has always been a part of the horn that I would have played almost without thinking about it. Again, it seems to be my embouchure. My (embouchure) settings appear to have three distinct voices: pedals to third partial Dflat, third partial F to sixth partial E, and seventh (if I'm counting my partials correctly) B and above. There's nothing really there above that high D at present and the D has begun to go thin recently but that's okay with me, I'm not in a rush up there. Interestingly, the Bnatural, C, C# and D sound better (to me) than almost any other part of the horn other than perhaps second partial area which has a quality that I also like very much. I feel that one of the compounding complications is that my horn and my settings seem to require unusual positions for those mid-high notes that i'm struggling with. so the F is a long way out, G not much further and A not much further than that. And Bflat is a stinker! Any further thoughts any of you have will be very welcome. Best wishes, Steve C ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2420 Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 07:45:29 -0500 From: "Dicaro, Pete" To: "'jasonakai@hotmail.com'" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Thayer issue... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C213A1.5D8B0710" May not be the valve at all, but the linkage. I took my horn about a year ago and had some German linkages installed. Christian showed me the one they took out and you could hardly move the balls at all. The new ones that he installed for me cost $40 apiece. Pete DiCaro -----Original Message----- From: Jason Akai [mailto:jasonakai@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 10:31 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Thayer issue... Im sure you guys have covered this before, but I have only been on the L list for a short time. I have an edwards bass bone with dual Thayer valves. My F rotor is sticking a LOT - I've put a lot of rotor oil in there (as had been suggested to me) to try to loosen it up, but its not working. Any thoughts/ideas? Ciao Jason _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2420 Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 06:03:23 -0700 From: "David Guion" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." , Subject: Re: high range was RE: lip rehab was: Gardner Read:"Invocation" Message-ID: <200206140603.AA21561670@trombone.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Jeff Albert wrote: . . . C and D became more dependable in >college, but I was a few years into my professional career before I had >a high F I could count on. In those terms, it was 12 - 15 years to >develop that range to the point that it was dependable. [snip ] Anyway, I guess I am trying to say that if you >are two years back into it and you are talking about Ds and Es, you are >doing great. If I recall, this thread got started by someone who was returning to playing trombone after a long layoff, so my experience may not be entirely applicable. The development of my high range followed about the same pattern as Jeff's--except, of course, that I never had anything resembling a professional career. There have been, as a consequence, several stretches of a month or more (but never as much as a year) when I have not played at all. As a matter of fact, I have not had either trombone out of its case since NABBA back in April. (In case anyone cares, my wife has joined me here, and we signed a contract to buy a house within 24 hours.) I plan to start getting back into some semblance of shape after we move into the house some time next month. For me, I can confidently predict that I will have my full high range almost immediately. I will have no endurance at all, and my low range will be hiding from me for a while. Tonguing and slurring will be undependable, but if I really want to warm up to a high F, it will be there no later than the second day of returning to practice. Anyone coming back to the trombone after a significant lay-off will find that some things return faster than others. As far as anything more detailed than that is concerned, I doubt if there is any such thing as typical. -- *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* David Guion "When you swim in the sea And an eel bites your knee-- That's a moray!" david@trombone.org *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* -- ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2420 Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 08:49:58 -0500 From: "Jeff Albert" To: , "'Trombones and related issues forum.'" Subject: RE: Re High Range was lip rehab Message-ID: <001101c213aa$5fd2be10$16279d42@jeff> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu] On Behalf Of SteveInside@aol.com Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 6:14 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Re High Range was lip rehab That goes to a top C and, in my playing, I can make that sing far more easily than, say the F or A below it which also occur.Ê I'm having the same problem at third partial E and D. ============================================================= This doesn't necessarily address Steve's issue, but it's a good story, and somewhat related. I spent about 4 months on the road with Buddy Morrow (Tommy Dorsey Orch). At the end of the night Buddy would play 8 bars of the theme (Getting Sentimental), and one of the section guys would play the 2nd "A" while Buddy did the thank you good night bit. The lead player was going through a spell of missing the high c#, so I played it some nights. I usually hit the C#, but often chipped the E (a sixth lower) that comes a few notes later. One night as I walked by Buddy getting back on the bus, he stops me and says "save some air for the way down." I would get so relieved that I hit the high note, that I would let up blowing through the rest of it. Some times the answer is really simple. Who was it that said "tongue and blow kid, just tongue and blow" ? Jeff Albert www.jeffalbert.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2420 Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 07:00:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Re High Range was lip rehab Message-ID: <20020614140059.78137.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- SteveInside@aol.com wrote: > So MY problem isn't range per se, I think, so much as a > transition from one > way of playing to another. I think it's coming from what > I've understood Sam > Burtiss to refer in his book as my 'voices', i.e. those > ranges that fall into > (and in this case between) my embouchure settings. That sounds like a pretty good assessment of your issues...if you don't have Sam's book I would suggest you buy it, and then you might consider soliciting his help by email and phone if you can't find yourself in New York anytime soon. Shoot, you might even be able to do a lesson by NetMeeting if you have the technology... > I feel that one of the compounding complications is that > my horn and my > settings seem to require unusual positions for those > mid-high notes that i'm > struggling with. so the F is a long way out, G not much > further and A not > much further than that. And Bflat is a stinker! Do you play some kind of King? I think I remember some discussion of the horn you were playing a few months ago...I personally don't have much experience with them, but I know that one 3B I played around on for a while seemed to completely shut down at about G above the staff, and then resume a few notes higher. I wasn't all that strong a player at that time, but the horn certainly didn't help anything in that register! Gabe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2420 Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 07:13:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Good story, was RE: Re High Range was lip rehab Message-ID: <20020614141316.10190.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Jeff Albert wrote: > Who was it that said "tongue and blow > kid, just tongue > and blow" ? That would be John Coffey, one of the great unsung heroes of the trombone. I never met him or heard him play, but I've heard some great stories, including this one: A friend of mine (very good, primarily jazz, trombonist and HS band director) grew up in Jamaica Plain, MA (where I live now, a sort of bedroom-community section of Boston), in a big Irish Catholic family, scraping for every dollar, jammed into half of a 2-family house. When he started showing some promise on the trombone, he started taking lessons with John Coffey at his music store near Symphony Hall. At an early lesson, Mr. Coffey handed him a brand-new 42B and said something along the lines of "here kid, this is for you, pay me $5 a week for it when you come for your lessons." My friend was so excited he practiced like crazy all week, came back for his lesson the next week, and at the end of it Mr. Coffey handed him back his $5 and told him he'd done great work that week. That continued until Mr. Coffey told him the horn was paid off. He never took a cent for it, and my friend treasures it to this day...he doesn't play it often, as he spends most of his playing time on a beautiful Pre-WWII King 2B with a marvelous, ornately-engraved Sterling bell...but he won't ever part with it. He was almost in tears when he finished telling me the story. Made me wish I'd met him... Gabe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2420 Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 07:55:43 -0700 From: Jim Preston To: jasonakai@hotmail.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Thayer issue... Message-ID: <3D0A03EF.2020609@cox.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Are you using the oil Edwards provides for the spindles (it's in a small bottle with a needle applicator)? If so, stop using it. Once I started using regular valve oil on the spindles I haven't had any problems with the valves sticking. Do take the valves apart and clean them also. Jim Preston Jason Akai wrote: Im sure you guys have covered this before, but I have only been on the L list for a short time. I have an edwards bass bone with dual Thayer valves. My F rotor is sticking a LOT - I've put a lot of rotor oil in there (as had been suggested to me) to try to loosen it up, but its not working. Any thoughts/ideas? Ciao Jason _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2420 Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 09:57:40 -0500 From: "greg waits" To: jalbert@bellsouth.net, trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Re High Range was lip rehab Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Regarding range building: In the Jazz Collection Big Band (based in Dallas), there is an arrangement of I'm Getting Sentimental Over You" which is written in the key of F. Of course, this requires the lead player to play a high E in the melody! Playing that book all the time gets an otherwise touchy note to lock in. Someone posted a comment the other day about gaining range only when the notes are called for, or atherise written on the page in front of you. When I was a senior in HS, our stage band had a feature for the lead bone chair. In the ballad melody, there was a high Db. I was all over it after a month or so, but for awhile after that, I assumed that was the top of my range! Odd how that works! GW From: "Jeff Albert" Reply-To: To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Re High Range was lip rehab Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 08:49:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from po.missouri.edu ([128.206.12.137]) by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4905); Fri, 14 Jun 2002 06:48:20 -0700 Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1])by po.missouri.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g5EDnnE14586;Fri, 14 Jun 2002 08:49:49 -0500 Received: from imf22bis.bellsouth.net (mail022.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.62])by po.missouri.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g5EDnCE14490for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 08:49:12 -0500 Received: from jeff ([66.157.39.22]) by imf22bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20020614134901.DFIW1202.imf22bis.bellsouth.net@jeff>; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 09:49:01 -0400 Message-Id: <001101c213aa$5fd2be10$16279d42@jeff> Sender: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Precedence: bulk In-Reply-To: <107.133bd71f.2a3b29de@aol.com> X-To: , "'Trombones and related issues forum.'" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by po.missouri.edu id g5EDnDE14491 X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN Return-Path: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Jun 2002 13:48:21.0018 (UTC) FILETIME=[2540FFA0:01C213AA] -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu] On Behalf Of SteveInside@aol.com Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 6:14 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Re High Range was lip rehab That goes to a top C and, in my playing, I can make that sing far more easily than, say the F or A below it which also occur.Ê I'm having the same problem at third partial E and D. ============================================================= This doesn't necessarily address Steve's issue, but it's a good story, and somewhat related. I spent about 4 months on the road with Buddy Morrow (Tommy Dorsey Orch). At the end of the night Buddy would play 8 bars of the theme (Getting Sentimental), and one of the section guys would play the 2nd "A" while Buddy did the thank you good night bit. The lead player was going through a spell of missing the high c#, so I played it some nights. I usually hit the C#, but often chipped the E (a sixth lower) that comes a few notes later. One night as I walked by Buddy getting back on the bus, he stops me and says "save some air for the way down." I would get so relieved that I hit the high note, that I would let up blowing through the rest of it. Some times the answer is really simple. Who was it that said "tongue and blow kid, just tongue and blow" ? Jeff Albert www.jeffalbert.com _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2420 Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 08:07:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Thayer issue... Message-ID: <20020614150738.19422.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Good advice so far...make sure everything is really clean. If you're unsure what to do to take apart and clean the thayers, ask a repairperson who knows them or someone who's had them for a while - they're really quite easy to clean and service yourself, more so than rotary valves, but the tradeoff is that they require much more care than rotaries. Also, I find that my current set of thayers (older aluminum ones from Shires) is quite sensitive to the alignment of all the tubing around them. My old set (stainless steel) was much less sensitive, mostly because they were heavier. Make sure that all of the screw fittings line up easily and aren't pulled into place by tightening them. If they are, you can try gently bending them into place yourself, but you're probably best off sending them to Edwards to be aligned or bringing them to a repairperson you trust. Also, one of my valves has some play at the round lock ring (the top, or fat part, of the cone). It doesn't move around when it's tightened down, but it can be tightened down slightly out of place, which pulls other stuff out of perfect alignment and makes the OTHER valve slow! I'll have my horn in at Shires next week and will have them look at that. Gabe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2420--