TROMBONE-L Digest 2419 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Gardner Read:"Invocation" by "Fred Hudson" 2) Re: Roy Lawler Still Exists by "D.J. Kennedy" 3) Re: lip rehab was: Gardner Read:"Invocation" by "Fred Hudson" 4) high range was RE: lip rehab was: Gardner Read:"Invocation" by "Jeff Albert" 5) Re: recordings for trombone (and trumpet) by Joseph Green 6) Gurrelieder? by Brian French 7) RE: Gurrelieder? by Steve Gamble 8) RE: Gurrelieder? by "Thomas Smee" 9) Re: Factory tour by sabutin ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2419 Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 12:34:35 -0500 From: "Fred Hudson" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Gardner Read:"Invocation" Message-ID: <002b01c21237$6cb508a0$051198d8@s0024172501> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0028_01C2120D.82A7B920" Thanks for the comments Brian. I found the recording on Tower with an audio clip, Just that one minute clip was enough to create instant recognition that this is a duet for complementary instruments rather than an accompanied trombone solo. Your comments about the effect on the congregation are also helpful. South Arkansas Episcopalians are not known for their sophisticated musical taste. Maybe the idea is to shock their wallets open! Fred H ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian French To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 7:36 AM Subject: Re: Gardner Read:"Invocation" Fred, I've played the Read Invocation, and I find it to be a fantastic piece, great tonalities, very powerful. ÊIt's a bit long for an offertory, but I guess the music director at my church figured people would give more if the piece was longer. ÊOr give more to shut me up, one or the other. Ê Lindberg recorded it on his "Sacred Trombone: Êmusic for trombone and organ" probably available at Hickey's or Tap and elsewhere. --Brian on 6/12/02 12:51 AM, Fred Hudson at fmhudson@arkansas.net wrote: I would appreciate hearing comments from anyone on the list who is familiar with the "Invocation" for Trombone and Organ by Gardner Read. Our church organist has asked me to prepare this for performance next Easter. By that time I may have my lip back in shape ( currently undergoing a rehab after a 30 year layoff) to handle the high D's and E's but I'm having a problem "getting into" this piece of music. It may come along when I start rehearsing with the organist, but I would like to hear comments and opinions from anyone who has performed, heard or read it and particularly appreciate being pointed in the direction of a recording. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2419 Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 15:47:17 -0500 From: "D.J. Kennedy" To: William Huber Cc: trombone-l , urbie Garcia , 2olbones Tribble <2olbones@mtaonline.net> Subject: Re: Roy Lawler Still Exists Message-ID: <3D07B355.2160F760@midwest.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit thanks-this is good news !!! john chover will be relieved -williams parts available saw and HEARD --roys high note special 490//490 being played in ''''spiritual to the bone ''trombone ensemble at the itf a happy day to everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! William Huber wrote: > Dear DJ et.al., > > Roy Lawler is still happily puttering about his shop in Longwood, FL. You > are correct in that he took down the website. I don't know why. But his > telephone number is available through directory assistance in the Orlando, > FL area code under "Florida Brass Instruments." If needed, I'll dig through > my files (a true archeological venture) and unearth it. > > Cheers, > > Bill Huber > Nashville > > ================= > -Original Message- > Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 23:33:03 -0500 > From: "D.J. Kennedy" > Subject: [Fwd: ?????about minick]...new williams and bones west > > chat about minick and is roy lawler still in biz or not > any contact no for him ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2419 Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 12:58:01 -0500 From: "Fred Hudson" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: lip rehab was: Gardner Read:"Invocation" Message-ID: <003001c2123a$b63dc5e0$051198d8@s0024172501> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks also to Mike A. and Steve C. It's good to meet kindred souls experiencing the same frustrations and problems I have. I didn't mean to imply that I am anywhere close to "There Yet" with my high range. I am hopeful that with continued practice and exercises to develop the muscle tone in my lip that I can regain my previous form. I have only been at it for about six months and yes, I do have setbacks from day to day but the general trend is toward improvement. I have to keep reminding myself that where I was 30 years ago was the result of 25 years of regular practice and performance. It "ain't" coming back overnight. I have received a lot of support and direction from many list members and am pleased with my progress but the improvement curve is asymptotic. The better you get - the less improvement you see from day to day. In the meantime I will develop Plan B with a less challenging peice for my first solo performance. Onward and Upward! Fred H. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 9:24 AM Subject: lip rehab was: Gardner Read:"Invocation" > original message: > Fred Hudson wrote: > > By that time I may have my lip back in shape (currently undergoing a rehab > after a 30 year layoff) to handle the high D's and E's > > And Steve C replies: > > (snip) > > No, I'm interested in your comment there Fred. I'm six months in after a > similar layoff and I'd say that for the last two or maybe even three of those > months, my lips seem to be going backwards rather than forwards. > ------------------------ > > I too am very interested in this condition. First, though, I should say I am > astonished (and envious) that both of you are so "advanced" after so brief a > "rehab". I am about 18 months into rebuilding after nearer 40 years off my > instrument. My "curve" has gone up and down, and still does. I can walk a > scale up to D (next to top line treble cleff) and have hit Eb twice in the > last couple of months :) but my pratical playable top right now is a B > natural and appears to be stuck there. I was at this same point in September > last year when I was suddenly faced with a 10-day absence without my horn. I > buzzed my mouth piece everyday during that time but when I got back I found > my playable high note had dropped to Ab, or A natural. The point that has > concerned me is that it has seemed unrealistically difficult to get back to > where I was before September. It seems I constantly struggle with my high > range even though that's not exceptionally high by most standards! > > So, yes, my range certainly does fluctuate over time although my practice > time and effort remains fairly consistent. I suggest the answer is that my > lip has not yet reached its peak of muscle tone - or hardened - and thus does > not retain any edge I achieve over any given period of practice. The evidence > I base this on is that in my flexibility exercises I am still not crisp and > clean - arpeggios, lip trills, etc.). I can do them but they are not very > consistent. If I am right, there is no solution except to hammer on. > > Interestingly, despite that problem, I seem to have excellent endurance. I > play in a brass choir whose members represent a cross section of ages and > experience, from high school to 60-plus years in age. We frequently play two > services back to back and sometimes three. I have no problem whatsoever doing > that, yet I hear complaints from some of the others, young and old, about > getting tired or loosing their lip. Also, I occasionally get "in the groove" > with play along CDs etc. and have gone for 3 hours before I realized I was > getting a little tired. Go figure? > > I too would very much appreciate hearing of the experience of others. > > Mike Alford > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2419 Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 14:23:50 -0500 From: "Jeff Albert" To: , "'Trombones and related issues forum.'" Subject: high range was RE: lip rehab was: Gardner Read:"Invocation" Message-ID: <004701c21246$b0d58870$16279d42@jeff> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This talk of high range development is very interesting. Put it in the perspective of when you first started as a youngster. I started playing in the 5th grade (10 years old), and for a couple of years F above the bass clef staff was high. All the way through high school Bb was the top of my usable range, and I was a pretty good high school trombone player (made all-state, etc). C and D became more dependable in college, but I was a few years into my professional career before I had a high F I could count on. In those terms, it was 12 - 15 years to develop that range to the point that it was dependable. Now granted, I never really tried to be a high note specialist, and that length of development could also be due to the fact that I didn't really need those notes until they appeared (i.e. in high school I was never ASKED to play higher than Bb). Anyway, I guess I am trying to say that if you are two years back into it and you are talking about Ds and Es, you are doing great. Jeff Albert www.jeffalbert.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu] On Behalf Of Fred Hudson Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 12:58 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Re: lip rehab was: Gardner Read:"Invocation" Thanks also to Mike A. and Steve C. It's good to meet kindred souls experiencing the same frustrations and problems I have. I didn't mean to imply that I am anywhere close to "There Yet" with my high range. I am hopeful that with continued practice and exercises to develop the muscle tone in my lip that I can regain my previous form. I have only been at it for about six months and yes, I do have setbacks from day to day but the general trend is toward improvement. I have to keep reminding myself that where I was 30 years ago was the result of 25 years of regular practice and performance. It "ain't" coming back overnight. I have received a lot of support and direction from many list members and am pleased with my progress but the improvement curve is asymptotic. The better you get - the less improvement you see from day to day. In the meantime I will develop Plan B with a less challenging peice for my first solo performance. Onward and Upward! Fred H. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 9:24 AM Subject: lip rehab was: Gardner Read:"Invocation" > original message: > Fred Hudson wrote: > > By that time I may have my lip back in shape (currently undergoing a rehab > after a 30 year layoff) to handle the high D's and E's > > And Steve C replies: > > (snip) > > No, I'm interested in your comment there Fred. I'm six months in after a > similar layoff and I'd say that for the last two or maybe even three of those > months, my lips seem to be going backwards rather than forwards. > ------------------------ > > I too am very interested in this condition. First, though, I should say I am > astonished (and envious) that both of you are so "advanced" after so brief a > "rehab". I am about 18 months into rebuilding after nearer 40 years off my > instrument. My "curve" has gone up and down, and still does. I can walk a > scale up to D (next to top line treble cleff) and have hit Eb twice in the > last couple of months :) but my pratical playable top right now is a B > natural and appears to be stuck there. I was at this same point in September > last year when I was suddenly faced with a 10-day absence without my horn. I > buzzed my mouth piece everyday during that time but when I got back I found > my playable high note had dropped to Ab, or A natural. The point that has > concerned me is that it has seemed unrealistically difficult to get back to > where I was before September. It seems I constantly struggle with my high > range even though that's not exceptionally high by most standards! > > So, yes, my range certainly does fluctuate over time although my practice > time and effort remains fairly consistent. I suggest the answer is that my > lip has not yet reached its peak of muscle tone - or hardened - and thus does > not retain any edge I achieve over any given period of practice. The evidence > I base this on is that in my flexibility exercises I am still not crisp and > clean - arpeggios, lip trills, etc.). I can do them but they are not very > consistent. If I am right, there is no solution except to hammer on. > > Interestingly, despite that problem, I seem to have excellent endurance. I > play in a brass choir whose members represent a cross section of ages and > experience, from high school to 60-plus years in age. We frequently play two > services back to back and sometimes three. I have no problem whatsoever doing > that, yet I hear complaints from some of the others, young and old, about > getting tired or loosing their lip. Also, I occasionally get "in the groove" > with play along CDs etc. and have gone for 3 hours before I realized I was > getting a little tired. Go figure? > > I too would very much appreciate hearing of the experience of others. > > Mike Alford > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2419 Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 08:58:22 +0900 From: Joseph Green To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: recordings for trombone (and trumpet) Message-ID: <3D07E01D.136F@twics.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ?Douglas Yeo wrote: > > The Sonata by John Davison (I'm not aware of a Sonata by "Davidson") > was recorded by Henry Charles Smith on his LP, "Henry charles Smith > Plays Trombone." It was a Coronet LP, #1410 - a splendid recording > of a beautiful and unjustly neglected piece. > > The recording was made in the late 60's or early 70's, I bought my > copy in 1973. worth looking for, and perhaps it may still be > available as a cassette; I don't nkow. You might find it at Tap Music (tapmusic@tapmusic.com). Less than a year ago they had both the cassette and the LP in stock. For second-hand recordings, you might try . JG ++++++++++++++++++++++ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2419 Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 09:20:19 -0400 From: Brian French To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Gurrelieder? Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi list, This isn't too terribly trombone-related, but I don't have a recording of Schšnberg's Gurrelieder. Any recommendations? -Brian ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2419 Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 08:16:09 -0700 From: Steve Gamble To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Gurrelieder? Message-ID: <01C212B2.9433DA20.sgamble@tucsonsymphony.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brian, Of the three recordings that I have, my favorite is Boston/Ozawa on Philips. The other two are Vienna/Abbado (which I like) and Staatskapelle Dresden/Sinopoli (which I don't like). Of course, I must tell you that I make my judgements largely based on boring stuff like good sound and blend and accuracy and recording technique. I know a lot of folks really like the unique performance. But, strange as is it sounds, those recordings get listened to a couple of times and then as I anticipate the unique elements, the recording sort of becomes a caricature of itself and I loose interest in it. Other recordings where the music is just beautifully played, I can listen over and over and still enjoy them like it was the first time. All this just to say there's no accounting for taste in recordings, but I would also like to see what others recommend. Steve Gamble Librarian Tucson Symphony Orchestra 2175 N. 6th Ave. Tucson, AZ 85705 (520) 792-9155 x118 (520) 792-9314 fax sgamble@tucsonsymphony.org -----Original Message----- From: Brian French [SMTP:valveless@earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 6:20 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Gurrelieder? Hi list, This isn't too terribly trombone-related, but I don't have a recording of Schonberg's Gurrelieder. Any recommendations? -Brian ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2419 Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 12:30:51 -0400 From: "Thomas Smee" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Gurrelieder? Message-ID: <35C7D85725B64B4397D53397E829047B061C8A@torxchng.dwpv.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I really like the Vienna/Abbado one. Sounds great. I also have the RSO Berlin/Chailly one - not as well recorded though, in my opinion. Great piece, but loooong. -----Original Message----- From: Steve Gamble [mailto:sgamble@tucsonsymphony.org] Sent: June 13, 2002 11:16 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: RE: Gurrelieder? Brian, Of the three recordings that I have, my favorite is Boston/Ozawa on Philips. The other two are Vienna/Abbado (which I like) and Staatskapelle Dresden/Sinopoli (which I don't like). Of course, I must tell you that I make my judgements largely based on boring stuff like good sound and blend and accuracy and recording technique. I know a lot of folks really like the unique performance. But, strange as is it sounds, those recordings get listened to a couple of times and then as I anticipate the unique elements, the recording sort of becomes a caricature of itself and I loose interest in it. Other recordings where the music is just beautifully played, I can listen over and over and still enjoy them like it was the first time. All this just to say there's no accounting for taste in recordings, but I would also like to see what others recommend. Steve Gamble Librarian Tucson Symphony Orchestra 2175 N. 6th Ave. Tucson, AZ 85705 (520) 792-9155 x118 (520) 792-9314 fax sgamble@tucsonsymphony.org -----Original Message----- From: Brian French [SMTP:valveless@earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 6:20 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Gurrelieder? Hi list, This isn't too terribly trombone-related, but I don't have a recording of Schonberg's Gurrelieder. Any recommendations? -Brian ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2419 Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 12:32:21 -0400 From: sabutin To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Factory tour Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1188136542==_ma============" Just a little sideline to this thread...something about alchemy. really, in a sense. The practice of alchemy...the popular medieval attempt to find "The Philosopher's Stone" that would transmute base metals into gold...was really a misunderstanding of a concept that had to do w/self realization. Thus the "philosopher" word. The idea was for a human to transmute his base being into something higher, and by extension to view all that is in the world as a sort of gold. We used to have a running joke in the '70s and '80s in NYC regarding Bach m'pces. Q: "What's the least expensive way to get a custom m'pce?" A: "Line up 43 Bach m'pces of the same model and choose the one that works the best." This was only half a joke, of course, and was not really aimed at either Bach OR m'pces. Line up almost ANY set of horns or equipment that are ostensibly the same and you will find serious differences, if you are sensitive enough to perceive them. Now most people complain about this..."Oh, those %#(*&%% instrument companies!!!" But the SLY man...uses it to his advantage. A word to the wise... S. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2419--