TROMBONE-L Digest 2381 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) New Renuzit by "Corliss" 2) RE: New Renuzit by "Tom Izzo" 3) Re: New Renuzit by Craig Parmerlee 4) Re: New Renuzit by "Corliss" 5) Re: New Renuzit by "Corliss" 6) Performance tomorrow-New Mexico by william david proctor 7) Mike Vax with Dayton Jazz Orchestra by "Denny Seifried" 8) Bill Tole and J. Dorsey Orchestra by "Denny Seifried" 9) Cellular Phone Warning by Chris Waage 10) Re: Cellular Phone Warning by "Daniel Pliskin" 11) Bob Ferrel CD Release Party by Charles Perron 12) Re: Cellular Phone Warning by "Adrian Drover" 13) Re: LA Times: Cuban Trombone Master's Album Signals a Dawning =?iso-8859-1?Q?D=E9tente?= by Doug Crane 14) Unsolicited Testimony by "Bill Redgate" 15) Braces and the Grammar Police by richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL 16) Re: Thank you by "Richard Zemry Johnson" 17) Online Trombone Journal Classifieds by Chris Waage 18) Slide Doctor by Wil Salo 19) RE: Slide Doctor by Peter_Eiden@Prenhall.com 20) Re: Braces and the Grammar Police by Walter Barrett 21) La Boheme stage band by richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL 22) RE: Braces and the Grammar Police by richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL 23) Re: La Boheme stage band by Walter Barrett 24) Oops by "Thomas Smee" 25) Re: Cellular Phone Warning by "Dr. Carole Nowicke, Applied Health Science" 26) Re: La Boheme stage band by "Fred Hudson" 27) RE: Braces and the Grammar Police by "Daniel Pliskin" 28) RE: state of flux by "Dr. Carole Nowicke, Applied Health Science" 29) =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20LA=20Times:=20Cuban=20Trombone=20Master's=20?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Album=20Signals=20a=20Dawning=20D=E9tente?= by PCtrombone@aol.com 30) Re: La Boheme stage band by Gabriel Langfur 31) Re: Braces and the Grammar Police by Walter Barrett 32) RE: La Boheme stage band by "Dennis Clason" 33) Re: Braces and the Grammar Police by "Art Triggs" ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2381 Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 13:00:54 -0500 From: "Corliss" To: Subject: New Renuzit Message-ID: <002501c1f45e$cd25e340$39cb5340@richard> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0022_01C1F434.E415DF80" Yesterday I purchased a Renuzit. It has a different shape and size from the one portraid on the web site. The thin end is only an inch and an eighth in diamater. I thus put the replacement for cork near the cap instead at the thin end. It works but makes the pitch of the horn sharp. By pulling my tuning slide way out and by pulling the Runzit slide way out it can play in tune. I'm curious what others and finding in their purchase of this item. This version might be unique to this part of the country - upper Midwest - or maybe this version is replacing the old version everywhere. It has the basic structure of Humes and Berg Cleartone Mute whichÊI use regularly. It would be nice to have the larger version of the refreshner. Richard Corliss St. Cloud Minnesota ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2381 Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 13:03:29 -0500 From: "Tom Izzo" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: New Renuzit Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C1F435.4067E800" Just out of curiosity, are you people emptying the Renuzit product before using this as a mute????????? Inquirig minds want to know. :-) Thanks, Tom -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu]On Behalf Of Corliss Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2002 1:01 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: New Renuzit Yesterday I purchased a Renuzit. It has a different shape and size from the one portraid on the web site. The thin end is only an inch and an eighth in diamater. I thus put the replacement for cork near the cap instead at the thin end. It works but makes the pitch of the horn sharp. By pulling my tuning slide way out and by pulling the Runzit slide way out it can play in tune. I'm curious what others and finding in their purchase of this item. This version might be unique to this part of the country - upper Midwest - or maybe this version is replacing the old version everywhere. It has the basic structure of Humes and Berg Cleartone Mute whichÊI use regularly. It would be nice to have the larger version of the refreshner. Richard Corliss St. Cloud Minnesota ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2381 Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 13:50:28 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: New Renuzit Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020505134703.0228aa48@acticalc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed That is the same size. I believe there is only one size of the product. All of the ones I've seen have that 1-1/8 opening on the small end. If you put a thick foam on the small end, it will work fine on most tenors. For bass U adapted a toilet bowl rubber gasket (a new one). It ended up an inch or so from the small end, but that worked fine too, once I got the gasket shaped so that it would stay in the bell. And yes Tom, the perfumed gel slips right off the shank. The plastic retains the smell for awhile. Cheers, Craig At 01:00 PM 5/5/2002 -0500, Corliss wrote: Yesterday I purchased a Renuzit. It has a different shape and size from the one portraid on the web site. The thin end is only an inch and an eighth in diamater. I thus put the replacement for cork near the cap instead at the thin end. It works but makes the pitch of the horn sharp. By pulling my tuning slide way out and by pulling the Runzit slide way out it can play in tune. I'm curious what others and finding in their purchase of this item. This version might be unique to this part of the country - upper Midwest - or maybe this version is replacing the old version everywhere. It has the basic structure of Humes and Berg Cleartone Mute which I use regularly. It would be nice to have the larger version of the refreshner. Richard Corliss St. Cloud Minnesota ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2381 Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 14:03:43 -0500 From: "Corliss" To: , , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: New Renuzit Message-ID: <003301c1f467$9357d3e0$39cb5340@richard> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0030_01C1F43D.AA4F7140" Yes!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Izzo To: rcorliss@mn.astound.net ; Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2002 1:03 PM Subject: RE: New Renuzit Just out of curiosity, are you people emptying the Renuzit product before using this as a mute????????? Inquirig minds want to know. :-) Thanks, Tom -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu]On Behalf Of Corliss Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2002 1:01 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: New Renuzit Yesterday I purchased a Renuzit. It has a different shape and size from the one portraid on the web site. The thin end is only an inch and an eighth in diamater. I thus put the replacement for cork near the cap instead at the thin end. It works but makes the pitch of the horn sharp. By pulling my tuning slide way out and by pulling the Runzit slide way out it can play in tune. I'm curious what others and finding in their purchase of this item. This version might be unique to this part of the country - upper Midwest - or maybe this version is replacing the old version everywhere. It has the basic structure of Humes and Berg Cleartone Mute whichÊI use regularly. It would be nice to have the larger version of the refreshner. Richard Corliss St. Cloud Minnesota ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2381 Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 14:46:42 -0500 From: "Corliss" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: New Renuzit Message-ID: <000d01c1f46d$94909340$39cb5340@richard> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hmmm. Don't always trust what your eyes see. I ran off a copy of the web page on my printer and I was reading and studying it. The picture there made the refreshner thinner, longer, and more cylindrical. The web site had the item about four and half inches long. My printed version had it about six and a half inches long. Sorry about that. Richard Corliss ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Parmerlee" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2002 1:50 PM Subject: Re: New Renuzit > That is the same size. I believe there is only one size of the > product. All of the ones I've seen have that 1-1/8 opening on the small > end. If you put a thick foam on the small end, it will work fine on most > tenors. For bass U adapted a toilet bowl rubber gasket (a new one). It > ended up an inch or so from the small end, but that worked fine too, once I > got the gasket shaped so that it would stay in the bell. > > And yes Tom, the perfumed gel slips right off the shank. The plastic > retains the smell for awhile. > > Cheers, > Craig > > > > > At 01:00 PM 5/5/2002 -0500, Corliss wrote: > >Yesterday I purchased a Renuzit. It has a different shape and size from > >the one portraid on the web site. The thin end is only an inch and an > >eighth in diamater. I thus put the replacement for cork near the cap > >instead at the thin end. It works but makes the pitch of the horn sharp. > >By pulling my tuning slide way out and by pulling the Runzit slide way out > >it can play in tune. > > > >I'm curious what others and finding in their purchase of this item. This > >version might be unique to this part of the country - upper Midwest - or > >maybe this version is replacing the old version everywhere. > > > >It has the basic structure of Humes and Berg Cleartone Mute which I use > >regularly. It would be nice to have the larger version of the refreshner. > > > >Richard Corliss > >St. Cloud Minnesota > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2381 Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 17:20:41 -0600 From: william david proctor To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Performance tomorrow-New Mexico Message-ID: <2711992008.1020619241@dhcp-40-0535.unm.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I actually mentioned this a few weeks ago, but here's a reminder to those interested. I'll be performing Steven Frank's "Variations on Barnacle Bill, the Sailor" tomorrow (Monday) night at La Cueva High School in Albuquerque, NM. I'll be performing the bass trombone solo with the school Wind Ensemble, and I'll also be conducting part of the concert as I am the assistant band director at the school. The show starts at 6:30 pm (originally at 7, but we had to bump it up a little), so anyone in the area is welcome to attend. David Proctor bass trombone University of New Mexico ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2381 Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 20:29:23 -0400 From: "Denny Seifried" To: "Trombone List" Subject: Mike Vax with Dayton Jazz Orchestra Message-ID: <000501c1f495$184c90e0$186b5acf@seifriedcomp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List Members! Another shameless plug for the Dayton Jazz Orchestra with guest trumpet soloist, Mike Vax. Mike was a former member in the Stan Kenton Orchestra and present leader of the Mike Vax Big Band, from California. The concert is FREE and is held at Borders Books & Tapes on State Route 725 East, just a couple miles east of the Dayton Mall in Centerville OH. We will be in the cafe area of Borders and play from 7:30 to 9:30 this Monday evening, May 6th. Come out and hear a great trombone section, our soloist Mike Vax (who will also be playing 4th trumpet in our trumpet section led by ex-Kentonite, John Harner). Mike will be subbing for our ailing 4th trumpet, who was not able to play this gig. DJO Bones for tomorrow evening: lead-Linda Landis 2nd-Noah Belamy 3rd-John Hoff bass-Denny Seifried Come join us for some books, coffee and great big band jazz--Monday, May 6th at 7:30-9:30. Denny Seifried Bass Trombone-Springfield (OH) Symphony & Dayton Jazz Orchestra Adjunct Trombone-Wittenberg Univ. Dept. of Music ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2381 Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 20:40:52 -0400 From: "Denny Seifried" To: "Trombone List" Subject: Bill Tole and J. Dorsey Orchestra Message-ID: <001b01c1f496$ad3b9740$186b5acf@seifriedcomp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List Members: I had the pleasure of hearing the great trombonist, Bill Tole, last evening, leading the Jimmy Dorsey Orchestra here in Springfield OH, at Kuss Auditorium. For those of you who might not be familiar with Bill Tole, he is a wonderful Dorsey-style trombonist, with a high register that just will not quit! When not gigging with and leading the J. Dorsey Band, he lives and works in LA. If Bill comes to your area, please go and hear him, as you will not find a better Dorsey-styled trombone player. Denny Seifried Bass Trombone-Springfield (OH) Symphony & Dayton Jazz Orchestra Adjunct Trombone-Wittenberg Univ. Dept. of Music ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2381 Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 23:10:53 -0500 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: Cellular Phone Warning Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" The next time I create a program for a concert, it will have a simple warning: "Should your cellular phone should ring during the performance, we will bow to your obvious importance and stop our performance in order to give you total silence in which to receive your call." This evening, during a rather quiet section of the Rutter "Gloria", the performers and audience were treated to the mindless musical tripe of someone's cellular phone playing a lovely tune. For cryin' out loud, if you're so important that you can't turn the pager or cell phone off for an hour or so, you need to move into your office and cut all ties with the outside world (and this is from someone who is on 24/7 call, but makes arrangements to have calls covered during performances). Chris -- ________________________________________________ Chris Waage, Associate Webmaster chris@trombone.org http://www.trombone.org - A web site for trombonists ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2381 Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 05:05:09 +0000 From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Cellular Phone Warning Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed For cryin' out loud, if you're so important that you can't turn the pager or cell phone off for an hour or so, you need to move into your office and cut all ties with the outside world. Chris, Youâre talking people, so mindless that they canât remember to put their phones on vibrate. Why those people would be considered ãso importantä is a mystery to me. Or did you say ãso impotentä. DanP _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2381 Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 01:31:42 -0400 From: Charles Perron To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Bob Ferrel CD Release Party Message-ID: <001b01c1f4bf$4e428e00$e3ce2d44@glst3401.nj.comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I spoke with Bob Ferrel earlier this evening and he is having a "CD Release Party" next Saturday (5/11/02). It is in Lincoln Park, NJ at 2pm. More info is at www.bobferrel.com on the Upcoming Events page. If you have not heard Bob, he is an excellent jazz player and has played with everyone from the Duke Ellington Orchestra to Bruce Springsteen. His new CD is entitled "Face to Face" featuring Bob and trumpet great, Ted Curson. On one of his previous CDs he did a recording of Chelsea Bridge that is magical. Also, on one of the previous CDs he featured trumpeter Vinnie Cutro who has this raw, cool sound - hard to describe, but sounds great. I think Bob said he will be playing 6 or 7 tunes with his group on Saturday and Ted Curson will be there playing as well. Chuck ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2381 Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 07:46:40 +0100 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Cellular Phone Warning Message-ID: <003701c1f4c9$de2f9a30$517e68d5@homel29g9mgyk9> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Daniel Pliskin" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're talking people, so mindless that they can't remember to put their phones on vibrate. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But even if a concert goer is carrying their vibrator phone in their trouser pocket, the performance could well be interrupted by heavy breathing. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2381 Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 01:59:54 -0600 From: Doug Crane To: steve@inside14.demon.co.uk, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: LA Times: Cuban Trombone Master's Album Signals a Dawning DŽtente Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020506015303.0432edf0@pop.rmi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Steve: It's being distributed in the US by Vivendi/Universal and is licensed from Pimienta Records of Germany as I recall. Due to US/Cuban diplomatic relations, the only way a recording made in Cuba can be released in the US is by licensing it from a non-US company or, at the very least, an international affiliate of an American label. I hope this info is useful. Doug Crane dcrane@rmi.net At 12:37 PM 5/1/02 +0100, Steve Cordingley wrote: Doug Crane wrote: Saturday, April 13, 2002 Cuban Trombone Master's Album Signals a Dawning DŽtente Trombonist Generoso Jimenez's new CD is his first in many years. Album title: Generoso Que Bueno Toca Usted Consider the recently released album by Generoso Jimenez, the renowned Cuban trombonist and arranger famous for helping create the 1950s big-band sound of Afro Cuban icon Beny MorŽ. Thanks for posting this Doug. I've been looking out for the CD, and searched a few sites without turning anything up. Did you get a copy? Do you know the label name?, that kind of thing? Anything you can point me towards would be much appreciated. Thanks STEVE C ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2381 Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 06:12:20 -0400 From: "Bill Redgate" To: "Trombone List" Subject: Unsolicited Testimony Message-ID: <000201c1f4e6$820b0420$2b446218@attbi.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've been trying to send this for a few days now, so please pardon if it looks like a forward - I'm too lazy to re write it again. I just wanted to take a minute to inform the list of an extremely positive experience I have had with obtaining a chart recently. I bought a chart ( Veludo Negra) from Adrian Driver's Website. I just got the opportunity to play it last night with a band and Man> what a sweet tune! Everybody in the band loved it! Given Recent threads here, I suppose I have to admit that I was sitting in the Sax section last night and not the Trombone section. The Bass Trombone Feature was more than ably handled and the piece quite well received. Lister Hector ( Butch) Bourg can provide a second to this opinion if any of you should doubt me. Also notable is the fine product presented by Adrian. Great parts, ac complete score and not a discernable error anywhere in the chart! Now that's something that doesn't happen very often. Charts of this quality and this price would go a long way to eliminate the "Piracy" issue that has lately filled these pages. In short, if you're looking for charts, check out Adrian's page. I've found at least one ( can't wait for my chance to play "Mr. Nice Guy") and will be trying some others soon! Bill Redgate Trombone Tuba Trumpet and yes, Sax & Clarinet ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2381 Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 07:50:15 -0400 From: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Braces and the Grammar Police Message-ID: <81F62454EA21B94EA95517180D7303730243FA9F@lee-is-102.lee.army.mil> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1F4F4.3000F050" Well, the list has been slow this weekend, so I'll risk being pedantic and address one of my pet peeves. The "Braces and Tone" thread used the word flux to refer to changing conditions. This is not correct. Flux merely means flow and can be steady or unsteady, but by implication is steady. Fluctuation is the word you meant. That actually does mean things are changing. Actual use of the word flux would be rather rare in everyday life, unless you're soldering .Ê -----Original Message----- ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2381 Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 07:13:46 -0500 From: "Richard Zemry Johnson" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Thank you Message-ID: <015601c1f4f7$79306a00$e9a89d42@zemry> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm gonna add my comments. This list has furnished much support since I started playing again about 4 years ago. I'm traveling to my uncle's funeral which will be held Tuesday in San Antonio. My aunt has requested that I play Amazing Grace and Battle Hymn of the Republic for the services. I consider it to be an honor. Caveat: I found a Baptist Hymnal which had Battle Hymn of the Republic in it, learned treble clef in concert pitch and can play Battle Hymn of the Republic in treble clef....all since Thursday! **************************************************************************** ** Richard Zemry Johnson, Jr. "The Untouchables" Jazz Ensemble Shreveport Metropolitan Concert Band ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, , "There won't come a time when you won't have to practice anymore." J. J. Johnson **************************************************************************** ***** I'm not satisfied with anything about my playing. I know what I want. I can hear it; but it will take time and study to get it" -Sonny Rollins (1956) ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2381 Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 07:31:21 -0500 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L , Brass@lists.fsu.edu Subject: Online Trombone Journal Classifieds Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" The Online Trombone Journal Classifieds (http://www.trombone.org/classifieds) have been updated as of 7:30 AM CDT on June 1, 2002 with seventeen new listings. - - - - - Thank you for using the OTJ Classifieds! - - - - - OTJ Instrument Classifieds http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/instruments.asp OTJ Accessory Classifieds http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/accessories.asp OTJ Music Classifieds http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/music.asp OTJ Classifieds Frequently Asked Questions http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/faq.asp To place an ad: http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/adform.asp OTJ Gift Shoppe: http://www.cafepress.com/cp/store/store.aspx?storeid=trombones If you have any questions or comments about the Online Trombone Journal Classifieds, please contact me at chris@trombone.org. Chris -- ________________________________________________ Chris Waage, Associate Webmaster chris@trombone.org http://www.trombone.org - A web site for trombonists ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2381 Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 09:02:39 -0400 From: Wil Salo To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Slide Doctor Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020506090232.02e04200@pop.charter.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Does anyone know what happened to the Slide Doctor? I have tried to reach his web site (www.slidedr.com) for several days and all I get is a "Could not connect to remote server" error message. I have a slide needing hospitalization and treatment. Thanks, Wil Salo ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2381 Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 09:15:39 -0400 From: Peter_Eiden@Prenhall.com To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Slide Doctor Message-ID: <437EF0D69ABED11198FE0060088D8F6108E734D9@oldtms008.schuster.com> Content-return: allowed MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I just clicked on the link in your message and it worked fine. -----Original Message----- From: Wil Salo [mailto:wilsalo@charter.net] Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 9:03 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Slide Doctor Does anyone know what happened to the Slide Doctor? I have tried to reach his web site (www.slidedr.com) for several days and all I get is a "Could not connect to remote server" error message. I have a slide needing hospitalization and treatment. Thanks, Wil Salo **************************************************************************** Our network may monitor outgoing and incoming e-mail messages for security and customer service purposes, but this e-mail is confidential. Please notify the sender immediately if you receive it in error, and then delete it. **************************************************************************** ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2381 Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 09:42:11 -0400 From: Walter Barrett To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Braces and the Grammar Police Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thus spake, not Zarathustra, but richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL... Well, the list has been slow this weekend, so I'll risk being pedantic and address one of my pet peeves. The "Braces and Tone" thread used the word flux to refer to changing conditions. This is not correct. Flux merely means flow and can be steady or unsteady, but by implication is steady. Fluctuation is the word you meant. That actually does mean things are changing. Actual use of the word flux would be rather rare in everyday life, unless you're soldering . -----Original Message----- Tim- Here's the definition from the American Heritage Dictionary, please note #5... NOUN: 1a. A flow or flowing. b. A continued flow; a flood. See synonyms at flow. 2. The flowing in of the tide. 3. Medicine The discharge of large quantities of fluid material from the body, especially the discharge of watery feces from the intestines. 4. Physics a. The rate of flow of fluid, particles, or energy through a given surface. b. See flux density. c. The lines of force of an electric or magnetic field. 5. Constant or frequent change; fluctuation: ÒThe newness and flux of the computer industry has meant many opportunities for women and minoritiesÓ (Connie Winkler). 6. Chemistry & Metallurgy A substance that aids, induces, or otherwise actively participates in fusing or flowing, as: a. A substance applied to a surface to be joined by welding, soldering, or brazing to facilitate the flowing of solder and prevent formation of oxides. b. A mineral added to the metals in a furnace to promote fusing or to prevent the formation of oxides. c. An additive that improves the flow of plastics during fabrication. d. A readily fusible glass or enamel used as a base in ceramic work. VERB: Inflected forms: fluxed, fluxáing, fluxáes TRANSITIVE VERB: 1. To melt; fuse. 2. To apply a flux to. INTRANSITIVE VERB: 1. To become fluid. 2. To flow; stream. ETYMOLOGY: Middle English, from Old French, from Latin flxus, from past participle of fluere, to flow. See bhleu- in Appendix I. Walter Barrett "Nice-a boy, gotta big-a head!" -Concetta Albanese (my Uncle Pat's Mom) Yamaha Artist/Clinician Tenor, Alto, Bass Trombones Euphonium Bass Trumpet Tuba ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2381 Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 09:38:12 -0400 From: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: La Boheme stage band Message-ID: <81F62454EA21B94EA95517180D7303730243FAA4@lee-is-102.lee.army.mil> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1F503.443E11B0" I have the chance to play the stage band with a La Boheme production. I'm not familiar with this opera. I have seen it a couple of times but it has been many years, and I didn't even remember that there was a stage band.Ê Has anyone played this one and can give me some insight on what's involved?Ê Also, I don't have all the details, but I understand the pit orchestra is paid and the stage band not. I'm curious as to how this is normally handled. The logistics are fairly difficult for me, long travel and a number of performances, or I'd be leaping at the chance regardless of pay. As an amateur though I'm always sensitive to taking pay away from a pro who needs it. I don't like to ever do a freebie that hurts someone else.Ê - ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2381 Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 09:48:43 -0400 From: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL To: wbarrett@bestweb.net, trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Braces and the Grammar Police Message-ID: <81F62454EA21B94EA95517180D7303730243FAA6@lee-is-102.lee.army.mil> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1F504.BCCB7810" I'm not yielding on this one. It may be technically correct by #5 but it is NOT good usage. The right word was fluctuation. Unless you really meant #3, which braces would not cause (Guinness in sufficient quantity, though ... no, don't go there).Ê Now Zarathrustra, on the other hand. That descending trombone line, after the trumpets do their introduction - wow. Hearing Baltimore Symphony Orchestra do that is a thrill I'll always remember, and that was just on CD. That section is always tasteful but that is their moment to shine, they rise to the challenge. I think list member Randy Campora plays on the recording? If you read this let me know when you're going to do that live, I'll see if I can drive up.Ê -----Original Message----- From: Walter Barrett [mailto:wbarrett@bestweb.net] Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 9:42 AM To: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL; Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Re: Braces and the Grammar Police Thus spake, not Zarathustra, but richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL... Well, the list has been slow this weekend, so I'll risk being pedantic and address one of my pet peeves. The "Braces and Tone" thread used the word flux to refer to changing conditions. This is not correct. Flux merely means flow and can be steady or unsteady, but by implication is steady. Fluctuation is the word you meant. That actually does mean things are changing. Actual use of the word flux would be rather rare in everyday life, unless you're soldering . -----Original Message----- Tim- Here's the definition from the American Heritage Dictionary, please note #5... NOUN: 1a. A flow or flowing. b. A continued flow; a flood. See synonyms at flow. 2. The flowing in of the tide. 3. Medicine The discharge of large quantities of fluid material from the body, especially the discharge of watery feces from the intestines. 4. Physics a. The rate of flow of fluid, particles, or energy through a given surface. b. See flux density. c. The lines of force of an electric or magnetic field. 5. Constant or frequent change; fluctuation: ÒThe newness and flux of the computer industry has meant many opportunities for women and minoritiesÓ (Connie Winkler). 6. Chemistry & Metallurgy A substance that aids, induces, or otherwise actively participates in fusing or flowing, as: a. A substance applied to a surface to be joined by welding, soldering, or brazing to facilitate the flowing of solder and prevent formation of oxides. b. A mineral added to the metals in a furnace to promote fusing or to prevent the formation of oxides. c. An additive that improves the flow of plastics during fabrication. d. A readily fusible glass or enamel used as a base in ceramic work. VERB: Inflected forms: fluxed, fluxáing, fluxáes TRANSITIVE VERB: 1. To melt; fuse. 2. To apply a flux to. INTRANSITIVE VERB: 1. To become fluid. 2. To flow; stream. ETYMOLOGY: Middle English, from Old French, from Latin flxus, from past participle of fluere, to flow. See bhleu- in Appendix I. Walter Barrett "Nice-a boy, gotta big-a head!" -Concetta Albanese (my Uncle Pat's Mom) <http://www.bestweb.net/~wbarrett/> Yamaha Artist/Clinician Tenor, Alto, Bass Trombones Euphonium Bass Trumpet Tuba ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2381 Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 10:04:44 -0400 From: Walter Barrett To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: La Boheme stage band Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thus spake, not Zarathustra, but richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL... I have the chance to play the stage band with a La Boheme production. I'm not familiar with this opera. I have seen it a couple of times but it has been many years, and I didn't even remember that there was a stage band. Has anyone played this one and can give me some insight on what's involved? Also, I don't have all the details, but I understand the pit orchestra is paid and the stage band not. I'm curious as to how this is normally handled. The logistics are fairly difficult for me, long travel and a number of performances, or I'd be leaping at the chance regardless of pay. As an amateur though I'm always sensitive to taking pay away from a pro who needs it. I don't like to ever do a freebie that hurts someone else. - Tim- Yes, there is an onstage band, in the 1st Act, I believe. I've never done it myself, but have seen it at the Met. All there played from memory, and are in costume. At the Met, you'd better believe that everyone gets paid! I don't see why anybody else should expect anything less, either. If they want professional level players, they should pay them. Otherwise, they should line up some local HS kids who are willing to work "for the experience." Of course, then they have to realize that you usually "get what you pay for." Since I work as a musician, they are very few times that I can afford to do a freebie, and those are usually favors for other players where I can make good contacts for other work. -- Walter Barrett "Regarding jam sessions: Jazz musicians are the only workers I can think of who are willing to put in a full shift for pay and then go somewhere else and continue to work for free." -George Carlin Yamaha Artist/Clinician Tenor, Alto, Bass Trombones Euphonium Bass Trumpet Tuba ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2381 Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 10:08:51 -0400 From: "Thomas Smee" To: "Trombones and related issues forum. (E-mail)" Subject: Oops Message-ID: <85E12261CCD688478E5FFD36348A5979047BBA@torxchng2.dwpv.com> content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A mildly embarassing mistake. I think I probably undermined my message from a few weeks ago when I said I had worked on the Radetzsky March in a lesson with Kleinhammer. The more clever among you were probably wondering what the heck I was doing playing the trombone part to a march by Johann Strauss in a lesson with Kleinhammer. For some reason, I got the name of it confused with the Berlioz Hungarian March, which I did play in the lesson. Anyway, perhaps if you read the message with "Berlioz Hungarian March" in place of "Radetzky March" it will make slightly more sense. -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Smee Sent: April 17, 2002 5:09 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. (E-mail) Subject: RE: blasting (or trying not to) This is something I have worked on and still do. I have a few concrete suggestions. One thing I found helpful I learned several years ago in a lesson (my one and only lesson, but it was a good one) with Ed Kleinhammer when I was working on Radetzky with him. He had me try it using a NA attack (or something less than TA) instead of a TA attack, the point being that at very high volume levels, the air flow is so high that TA would result in too explosive an attack. A lot of people tongue way harder than they need to at loud volumes. If the attack is too explosive, the embouchure can't handle it and a blasty distorted sound follows. I also have noticed an unconscious reaction to seeing "ff" in music: if I tense up for a big effort, my sound reflects this. I have noticed this in others as well. When I try to keep my body in the same relaxed state as the volume goes up, my sound stays together and it is loud without being ugly. I also noticed that my loud playing was more relaxed! if I practised my soft playing. Kleinhammer had me do a breath attack long tone exercise on random notes starting with mf decrescendoing to mp over 8 beats. Then mp to p over 8 beats. Then pp to nothing over 8 beats. Stay open as you decrescendo. I noticed that if I then repeated the note mf+ or f, the sound was fuller, louder and easier. One last suggestion: practise the loud thing you are working on at a comfortably loud level with your straight mute in. The straight mute will make it sound snarly. Your task is to play it a couple of times loudly with the mute in, but your focus is to make it sound as unsnarly as humanly possible. Then when you take the mute out, repeat the lick staying relaxed. You will be surprised at the nice result. Tom -----Original Message----- From: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL [mailto:richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL] Sent: April 17, 2002 1:34 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: RE: blasting (or trying not to) Jon, That's a reasonable question. I too was hoping there'd be some concrete advice on loud playing. When I play beyond a certain level, I get sizzle, then splatter. I hear other people play much louder but keep the tone clear, and I'm not sure how it's done. I'm attempting to practice loud playing while retaining tone, hard to really tell progress though. Being able to play really loudly without the tone splitting will only be occasionally needed. How often do we get the hand, as opposed to the wave for more? (I get the wave on one piece. I frequently do Radetzky with an actual German native conductor, and he's always waving for more on those half notes second strain. Must be something cultural. To my ears I'm already beyond good taste and he still wants more.) But being able to play like that may involve doing something right, or at least more right, that may translate into other playing. It is not solely air, there must be chops involved as well. -----Original Message----- From: Jon Moeller [mailto:mole2k4@attbi.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 4:37 PM To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: RE: blasting (or trying not to) Not the best advice methinks... If a nascar driver knows how to drive fairly well, but cant take a turn fast at all, and he comes to you for help, you don't tell him to just slow down, and let the other drivers pass him, while he takes it as slowly as he needs to, you tell him how to approach the turn, when to apply the brakes during the turn, and how to exit it. I didn't ask why the director yells at me every time I play a note above mf (he doesn't, just an example), but I asked if anyone had any tips on how to improve the sound at high volumes. If you are teaching a beginner, and all they can play is p, do you tell them not to go above that dynamic level, or instruct them on what to do, and how to get better? -----Original Message----- From: Steve Gamble [mailto:sgamble@tucsonsymphony.org] Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 11:33 AM To: 'mole2k4@attbi.com'; Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: RE: blasting (or trying not to) Hi Jon, Here's the trick...Learn what it means to play as loud as you CAN. Depending on your location, that will be anywhere between $6 and $150 dollars. Thank you and see you next week. Steve Gamble Librarian Tucson Symphony Orchestra 2175 N. 6th Ave. Tucson, AZ 85705 (520) 792-9155 x118 (520) 792-9314 fax sgamble@tucsonsymphony.org -----Original Message----- From: Jon Moeller [SMTP:mole2k4@attbi.com] Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 7:01 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: blasting (or trying not to) << File: ATT00005.htm >> I've found lately that as I've been practicing at extreme (loud extreme) dynamics, my sounds starts to spread or blast or whatever you like to call it. The point is I'm getting way more overtones than I want. Is there any way to reduce this "spreading" without going out and buying a new horn? I think the problem is not in my equipment, but myself, so is there anything I can do to help remedy this? (perhaps just continuing to play at loudissimo dynamics will help) ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2381 Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 09:15:32 -0500 (EST) From: "Dr. Carole Nowicke, Applied Health Science" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Cellular Phone Warning Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 5 May 2002, Chris Waage wrote: > The next time I create a program for a concert, it will have a simple warning: > > "Should your cellular phone should ring during the performance, we > will bow to your obvious importance and stop our performance in order > to give you total silence in which to receive your call." Oh, we just put up official looking signs telling people it is against university and state regulations to use cell phones in Indiana University classrooms and instruct those attending our conferences and classes to turn the things off, or set them on vibrate. They believe it. :-) In two years, not a phone has gone off in a meeting in our shop. Carole Nowicke cnowicke@indiana.edu ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2381 Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 09:33:21 -0500 From: "Fred Hudson" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: La Boheme stage band Message-ID: <001b01c1f50a$fa516180$3b1298d8@s0024172501> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01C1F4E1.10228040" I played in the pit orchestra for the Charlotte, NC Opera Ass'n. during my college days and as you might expect there was no stage band inÊtheir production of "La Boheme".ÊI have since attended two performances by professional touring opera companies, the last being a few years ago at the Wolftrap Amphitheater (not the Barns). On neither occasion was there a stage band. This may be an option for the producer or, Heaven Forbid!, an innovation. There is a scene at the end of Act 2 that involves a military fife and drum unit, but my recollection is that this is pantomimed with any sounds coming from the pit. Obviously this does not answer your questions butÊI would be interested to know what you find out about it. Fred Hudson ----- Original Message ----- From: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 8:38 AM Subject: La Boheme stage band I have the chance to play the stage band with a La Boheme production. I'm not familiar with this opera. I have seen it a couple of times but it has been many years, and I didn't even remember that there was a stage band.Ê Has anyone played this one and can give me some insight on what's involved?Ê Also, I don't have all the details, but I understand the pit orchestra is paid and the stage band not. I'm curious as to how this is normally handled. The logistics are fairly difficult for me, long travel and a number of performances, or I'd be leaping at the chance regardless of pay. As an amateur though I'm always sensitive to taking pay away from a pro who needs it. I don't like to ever do a freebie that hurts someone else.Ê - ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2381 Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 15:07:56 +0000 From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Braces and the Grammar Police Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I'm not yielding on this one. Now children· I, for one, am in a constant state of flux, as to whether ãfluxä should remain a term, used to indicate a field or a flow, or be allowed to refer to a change. I, also, donât trust a dictionary that would use, as an example, the term used in that way, by computer scientists. Computer scientists should know that the term ãfluxä is sacred and refers to a generally invariant field, in physics. As such, I must blame the blatant misuse of the term ãfluxä on irreverent punk kids, who have never shown proper respect for the language. Why, these kids,· ;?) $~) ;<) 8^! 8?O :o] ;^ ,/ ; ?| (:#I) ;^ ( :-D ;<{> DanP _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2381 Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 10:11:44 -0500 (EST) From: "Dr. Carole Nowicke, Applied Health Science" To: Daniel Pliskin Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: state of flux Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Mon, 6 May 2002, Daniel Pliskin wrote: > I, for one, am in a constant state of flux, as to whether “flux” should > remain a term, used to indicate a field or a flow, or be allowed to refer to > a change. Maybe they're thinkin' 'bout solder flux... Carole Nowicke cnowicke@indiana.edu ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2381 Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 11:21:32 EDT From: PCtrombone@aol.com To: dcrane@rmi.net, trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: LA Times: Cuban Trombone Master's Album Signals a Dawning DŽtente Message-ID: <1aa.1d417e7.2a07f97c@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1aa.1d417e7.2a07f97c_boundary" Amazon.com has Generoso Jimenez's new CD Que Bueno Toca Usted. They must have some in stock because it is listed as ships in 24 hours. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2381 Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 09:08:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: La Boheme stage band Message-ID: <20020506160820.97966.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL wrote: > Also, I don't have all the details, but I understand the > pit orchestra is > paid and the stage band not. I'm curious as to how this > is normally > handled. The Boston Lyric Opera is doing La Boheme right now. I'm not playing, but I have a few friends who are. As I understand it, the way most fully professional opera companies usually do this is that the stage band is paid MORE because of being onstage and in costume. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Gabe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2381 Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 12:23:39 -0400 From: Walter Barrett To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Braces and the Grammar Police Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thus spake, not Zarathustra, but Daniel Pliskin... > As such, I must blame the blatant misuse of the term "flux" on irreverent > punk kids, who have never shown proper respect for the language. Why, these > kids, Dan- While I'm hardly a kid, thank you for thinking of me as one! I will also fess up to being irreverent, as well. However, I will only accept being called a punk by folks at least 25-30 years older than me!!! ;-) Walter Barrett "Don't get old, you won't like it." -Arnold Jacobs Yamaha Artist/Clinician Tenor, Alto, Bass Trombones Euphonium Bass Trumpet Tuba ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2381 Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 10:27:53 -0600 From: "Dennis Clason" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: La Boheme stage band Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002A_01C1F4E8.AE16BBC0" I have the chance to play the stage band with a La Boheme production. I'm not familiar with this opera. I have seen it a couple of times but it has been many years, and I didn't even remember that there was a stage band.Ê Has anyone played this one and can give me some insight on what's involved?Ê Also, I don't have all the details, but I understand the pit orchestra is paid and the stage band not. I'm curious as to how this is normally handled. The logistics are fairly difficult for me, long travel and a number of performances, or I'd be leaping at the chance regardless of pay. As an amateur though I'm always sensitive to taking pay away from a pro who needs it. I don't like to ever do a freebie that hurts someone else.Ê The parts call for aÊband in the wings and on-stage for one scene in Act II. I've played Boheme a couple of times,Êboth times the on-stage music was played from the pit. I seriously doubt that any production company is going to pay pros to do this bit.ÊÊIn one production they tried to move those of us with parts from the pit to the stage and back. There's not enough time to do it, or at least there wasn't in THAT theater. The nice (?) part about doing it is that you'd have to get in costume ... Do it if you want to, and I wouldn't worry about having taken the bread from someone's mouth. It's just unlikely that they'd hire someone to do it. Dennis ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2381 Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 12:28:52 -0400 From: "Art Triggs" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Braces and the Grammar Police Message-ID: <005801c1f51b$1d0bf6d0$f6a315ac@taz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Watch it pal, someone may take you up on that.........;-) Art Triggs "I will only accept being called a punk by folks at least 25-30 years older than me!!!" W.Barrett c.2002 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Barrett" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 12:23 PM Subject: Re: Braces and the Grammar Police > Thus spake, not Zarathustra, but Daniel Pliskin... > > > As such, I must blame the blatant misuse of the term "flux" on irreverent > > punk kids, who have never shown proper respect for the language. Why, these > > kids, > > Dan- > > While I'm hardly a kid, thank you for thinking of me as one! I will also > fess up to being irreverent, as well. However, I will only accept being > called a punk by folks at least 25-30 years older than me!!! > > ;-) > > Walter Barrett > > "Don't get old, you won't like it." > -Arnold Jacobs > > > Yamaha Artist/Clinician > Tenor, Alto, Bass Trombones > Euphonium > Bass Trumpet > Tuba > > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2381--