TROMBONE-L Digest 2373 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Bach 16 and/or 42BO for sale by "Douglas Kilen" 2) trombone holder/gizmo by Toyoji Tomita 3) Re: Composition Software by Wayne Dyess 4) Re: vibration by Wayne Dyess 5) Re: vibration by "Dr. Carole Nowicke, Applied Health Science" 6) Re: [TL]trombone holder/gizmo by Galen Zinn 7) Re: [TL]trombone holder/gizmo by Douglas Yeo 8) Re: Compositional software by jimandcat@juno.com 9) Re: [TL]trombone holder/gizmo by Toyoji Tomita 10) New: Yeo serpent photo gallery by Douglas Yeo 11) Re: vibration by BassBonist@aol.com 12) Trombone choir arrangements. by Jim Seaman 13) Re: vibration by "Adrian Drover" 14) Re: vibration by "Adrian Drover" 15) Re: Compositional software by "Adrian Drover" 16) RE: Motivation by sabutin 17) Re: Yeo serpent photo gallery by "Adrian Drover" 18) RE: Motivation by sabutin 19) RE: Motivation by sabutin 20) Re: Samurai Bones (was Motivation) by sabutin 21) The greatest Symphony..Anyone still have that doc? by Luke Kent 22) Re: Samurai Bones (was Motivation) by sabutin 23) Re: Ideas for discreet warm-up by "Richard Zemry Johnson" 24) Re: ITF by "Richard Zemry Johnson" ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2373 Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 12:14:39 -0500 From: "Douglas Kilen" To: Subject: Bach 16 and/or 42BO for sale Message-ID: <007e01c1ee0f$07687190$8612e0d1@kilen> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm considering selling a horn or two -- email me off the list if you're interested. Bach 16 with a dual bore (.495/.509)light-weight slide, SN 47791, missing lacquer in spots over most of horn, no dents or dings, slide is in great shape -- great jazz horn or lead concert horn, with case. $900, or best offer over. Bach 42BO with standard rotor. SN 118391 on slide and 67398 on valve. Lacquer is in great shape, looks like it had a small crease removed from bell (not noticeable unless you're up real close), Slide works nicely but could benefit from a trip to the Slide Dr. Great sounding horn, with case. $950 or best offer over. Doug Kilen Superior WI dkilen@pressenter.com (715) 394-7636 ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2373 Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 10:26:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Toyoji Tomita To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: trombone holder/gizmo Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I just heard a rumor that there's a trombone holder/gizmo being used. I assume this is to free up your left hand for mutes, etc. Anyone have more info.? -- toyoji (toyoji@mills.edu) ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2373 Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 12:31:37 -0500 From: Wayne Dyess To: marksmen@outdrs.net Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Composition Software Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Hi Dave, A definite advantage to Finale (for folks like you) is the Encore import function. You won't lose all your old work! You can simply import them into Finale and move on. VERY nice. For those who are curious about the newest version of Finale, you might give the FREE "Notepad" a try. While Finale Notepad has most of the power of Finale disabled, there is plenty to whet the appetite. Many of our students are able to work at home using Notepad, then import their files at school for final editing and printing. A real plus I have found is that it doesn't matter what platform they use with Notepad -- it will load into a Mac or a Windows machine. No translations necessary! Very nice, indeed. Wayne Dyess http://www.codamusic.com/coda/ At 12:46 AM -0400 4/27/02, Dave Wank wrote: Thanks to all of you who took the time to reply to my query regarding Sibelius and Finale. I admit to being computer ignorant. I learn the programs but I couldn't care less about what makes it go (my kids and their wives are all computer experts so I call them when I have such trouble). However, I can and do learn to use the various needed programs and I have been successfully using Encore for six years. Still, there are many things I have never done on Encore and just last week I learned something new about using Encore. Now, it would be nice if either Sibelius or Finale had some similarities to encore so I wouldn't have to completely start over. That was the nature of my question. I have examined a Sibelius tutorial and I was completely confused. I still have the thing on my system. Someday I'll try again and see if I can understand it. It looks cumbersome in relation to Encore, my only reference. At this point I'm leaning toward Finale if for no other reason than it is considerable cheaper. Thanks, again, for all the ideas. Dave Wank -- ========================= Dr. J. Wayne Dyess, Professor of Music Lamar University Music Department P. O. Box 10044 Beaumont, Texas 77710 409-880-8146 FAX: 409-880-8143 dyessjw@hal.lamar.edu http://www.lamar.edu ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2373 Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 13:14:21 -0500 From: Wayne Dyess To: LarryL595@aol.com Cc: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: vibration Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Hi Larry, Nice folks at Dillons! My valve will buzz every so often, too. It must be an 88H thing. Our horn teacher long ago taught me to put a little oil on the valve. That has always worked... so maybe it's not an 88H thing after all, but rather a rotary valve thing. :-) Wayne Ed, I just had the same problem on my Conn 88H. My first thought was that I had a loose solder joint where the brace meets the bell. I could feel the bell vibrating as well as hearing a buzz. I went to Dillons Music in NJ and the tech. determined that my problem was related to either a loose spring on the trigger (which he tightened) or that the valve was a little dry (which he oiled). The problem disappeared. By the way, he found another loose solder joint, not related to the vibration. He fixed it on the spot and didn't charge me a penny for any of it!! Larry -- ========================= Dr. J. Wayne Dyess, Professor of Music Lamar University Music Department P. O. Box 10044 Beaumont, Texas 77710 409-880-8146 FAX: 409-880-8143 dyessjw@hal.lamar.edu http://www.lamar.edu ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2373 Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 13:31:36 -0500 (EST) From: "Dr. Carole Nowicke, Applied Health Science" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: vibration Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 27 Apr 2002, Wayne Dyess wrote: > Nice folks at Dillons! My valve will buzz every so often, too. It > must be an 88H thing. Our horn teacher long ago taught me to put a > little oil on the valve. That has always worked... so maybe it's not > an 88H thing after all, but rather a rotary valve thing. Wayne, Obviously you need a new valve. Or two. Or wear clothing with more jangly ornaments so you won't notice the valve. I have a couple pair of earrings I can promise you'd never hear valve noise over... Carole cnowicke@indiana.edu ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2373 Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 11:53:43 -0700 From: Galen Zinn To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: [TL]trombone holder/gizmo Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 4/27/02 10:26 AM, quoth Toyoji Tomita > I just heard a rumor that there's a trombone holder/gizmo being used. I > assume this is to free up your left hand for mutes, etc. > > Anyone have more info.? > > -- > toyoji > (toyoji@mills.edu) > It doesn't really free your left hand, it just takes part of the weight off of it. You still have to hold the instrument and balance it. I actually have noticed more aggravation in my left shoulder while using the Ergobone than when I don't (something about the mechanics of my shoulder). By the way, it's advertised in the lasted ITA Journal. Galen Zinn E-mail: zinger@musician.org ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2373 Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 15:11:03 -0400 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: [TL]trombone holder/gizmo Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" On 4/27/02 10:26 AM, quoth Toyoji Tomita > I just heard a rumor that there's a trombone holder/gizmo being used. I > assume this is to free up your left hand for mutes, etc. http://www.ergobone.com -Doug Yeo ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2373 Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 15:23:21 -0700 From: jimandcat@juno.com To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Cc: tgtyson@earthlink.net Subject: Re: Compositional software Message-ID: <20020427.152322.-112901.1.Jimandcat@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just about all has been said on the Finale/Sibelius debate that needs to be said. It is like trying to talk an Edwards player into switching to Shires or vice-versa. They are both excellent notational software programs. The one question that was not answered is, is the upgrade to Sibelius 2 worth it? I plopped down the money for Sibelius 2 (+ another $100 for Photoscore Professional 2, both at academic rates) after much headscratching. Boy, am I glad I did. I LOVED working with Sibelius before. The new version is much better. It is enough different to require some learning time, but so logical that is a short learning time. Just after I got it, I scanned a leadsheet, created an 80 bar trio arrangement from it and had it finished in about 3 hours and in the mail the next day. That's good enough for me. In the USA, Finale is firmly entrenched in the publishing houses, though Boosey and Hawkes and Hal Leonard are using Sibelius as well. (It is my impression that Sibelius is doing well in Europe.) Also most US colleges are solidly invested in Finale. But I don't care about that for my purposes. I have tried and examined both and I prefer Sibelius both as a user and a music reader. The newer versions of Finale are much better than the ones I examined 4 years ago. More user-friendly, and a lot of neat conveniences. But for me, the finished look of the Sibelius scores and parts are much more attractive. To me, Finale is more nuts and bolts "Arial" whereas Sibelius is more elegantly "Times New Roman". You can import to Sibelius the same jazz font that Finale uses. Just do a Google search on "Jazz Font". One more point, I have used Sibelius tech help several times (mostly when I was still learning how to use a computer), I got prompt, personal (patient) and helpful response from their chat page, their phone help, and their e mail help. I even was e mailed help by one of the company founders, J. Finn. When I was looking at the Finale demo and needed help how to use it, no one answered my e mails, I was completely lost on their webpage, and I was left sitting on hold on the telephone 3 times before I gave up. As far as arrogance goes, they both are--just look at the claims in their ads. As far as ease of use, just the plethora of videos, CD roms, textbooks, and college courses of how to use Finale is enough to scare me off. Though I see many of my friends using it effeciently and easily with great results. And I like my Shires better than your Edwards ; ^ ) Jim Prindle ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2373 Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 17:03:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Toyoji Tomita To: Galen Zinn Cc: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: [TL]trombone holder/gizmo Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Galen, Thanks for your prompt reply. For the qurious on the list, the ad is on pg. 38 of Vol 30, #2 (April 2002) ITA Journal. The advertised website is: www.ergobone.com -- toyoji (toyoji@mills.edu) On Sat, 27 Apr 2002, Galen Zinn wrote: > On 4/27/02 10:26 AM, quoth Toyoji Tomita > > > I just heard a rumor that there's a trombone holder/gizmo being used. I > > assume this is to free up your left hand for mutes, etc. > > > > Anyone have more info.? > > > > -- > > toyoji > > (toyoji@mills.edu) > > > > It doesn't really free your left hand, it just takes part of the weight off > of it. You still have to hold the instrument and balance it. I actually have > noticed more aggravation in my left shoulder while using the Ergobone than > when I don't (something about the mechanics of my shoulder). > > By the way, it's advertised in the lasted ITA Journal. > > Galen Zinn > E-mail: zinger@musician.org > > > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2373 Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 21:31:44 -0400 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: New: Yeo serpent photo gallery Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" For those interested, I've added a "Serpent Photo Gallery" to my website which contains many images of me and other serpentists with an array of serpents and performing situations. You can get to it by clicking on the photo of a serpent on my home page at http://www.yeodoug.com By the way, for those interested in a huge but rewarding challenge, the serpent may be for you. You can follow links on my photo gallery page to other pages related to the serpent (which is a natural double for trombone players since the mouthpiece for serpent is akin to a trombone mouthpiece - not a tuba mouthpiece, as is often thought) - you can also find links to the Serpent Website which is maintained by Paul Schmidt and the Christopher Monk Workshop which is the leading maker of modern reproduction serpents in the world. This past Monday I had a recording session in Boston's Symphony Hall to begin a serpent recording project which will unfold over the next couple of years... Never a dull moment... -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2373 Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 22:24:58 EDT From: BassBonist@aol.com To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: vibration Message-ID: <162.ceac4bf.29fcb77a@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_162.ceac4bf.29fcb77a_boundary" Wayne Dyess writes: << Our horn teacher long ago taught me to put a little oil on the valve. That has always worked... so maybe it's not an 88H thing after all, but rather a rotary valve thing. >> Yep, and a dead air space thing. Filling gaps between rotor spindles and bearings, threaded parts, etc. does wonders to cure about 80-90% of vibrations or buzzing. Loose solder, loose screws, trigger springs, foreign objects, pinholes usually account for the remaining causes, with 1% remaining mysteriously unaccountable for. Matt ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2373 Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 02:48:13 -0400 From: Jim Seaman To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Trombone choir arrangements. Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sorry for the off topic question but does anyone know if James Kazik has any of his tbn ensemble works for purchase? A number of them where performed at the 1999 ITF. Specifically in the Snell Theatre on Friday June 4th at a 3:30 concert by the University of North Texas Trombone Choir. I would appreciate any leads or Mr Kasik's email address, snail mail address or phone number. Gracias, Merci and Thanks, Jim ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2373 Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 08:40:14 +0100 From: "Adrian Drover" To: "Wayne Dyess" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: vibration Message-ID: <00a001c1ee9a$c58e34d0$df7c68d5@homel29g9mgyk9> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Wayne Dyess" > Nice folks at Dillons! My valve will buzz every so often, too. It > must be an 88H thing. Our horn teacher long ago taught me to put a > little oil on the valve. That has always worked... so maybe it's not > an 88H thing after all, but rather a rotary valve thing. Strange this subject should come up now. I've had a rattle which has been coming and going for years. Only notice it while I'm warming up at home (quiet neighbourhood and double glazing). Only yesterday did I discover it was coming from the valve. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2373 Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 08:44:28 +0100 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: vibration Message-ID: <00a101c1ee9a$c86597c0$df7c68d5@homel29g9mgyk9> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Dr. Carole Nowicke, Applied Health Science" > Obviously you need a new valve. Or two. Or wear clothing with more jangly > ornaments so you won't notice the valve. I have a couple pair of earrings > I can promise you'd never hear valve noise over... Earrings? Sounds more like glass chandeliers. Anyhow, I don't think Texan men wear earrings. They prefer buffalo horns. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2373 Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 08:45:00 +0100 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Compositional software Message-ID: <00a201c1ee9a$cbc1e220$df7c68d5@homel29g9mgyk9> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: > And I like my Shires better than your Edwards ; ^ ) I'll stick to my Holton. The learning curve on the other two may be too steep. Does either have a demo version? A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2373 Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 06:05:01 -0400 From: sabutin To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Motivation Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I can't help noticing a difference between the idea of practicing "because that's who you are and that's what you do. No hope of reward" (from Sam) and the idea that "We all constantly need something to look forward to, a goal to be working on" (from Beth). If this make no sense, when you hit 45-50 it will. If you have already gone through "midlife" and ask this question, then I want you to teach me your Zen. Itβs odd that Rick brought up Zen, because I was going to start by relaying a conversation that I had with a Zen monk, a few years ago. I asked him what kept him meditating, all of the time. His response was that in all the 30 some odd years he had been meditating, he had had a perfectly clear mind for a sum total of maybe a few seconds. But those occasional fractions of a second, made it all worthwhile. ============== YES !!! There it is in a nutshell...the whole meditational experience for most of us, and the whole musical experience as well. (They are the same thing, really...) So many people think that if they practice (work on themselves, sit zazen, do various yogas. etc.) they will eventually become master musicians like (fill in the blank here) or achieve some sort of magical "enlightenment" and go walking across the lake to Nirvanaville, Ohio. It's not like that. Not for the real master musicians I have known, anyway, and not for the teachers of that other thing either. It is a constant effort, and the occasional moments of magic ARE what make all the effort worthwhile. Later... S. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2373 Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 11:27:11 +0100 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Yeo serpent photo gallery Message-ID: <00b401c1ee9f$c918eff0$df7c68d5@homel29g9mgyk9> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Douglas Yeo" > By the way, for those interested in a huge but rewarding challenge, > the serpent may be for you. You can follow links on my photo gallery > page to other pages related to the serpent (which is a natural double > for trombone players since the mouthpiece for serpent is akin to a > trombone mouthpiece Doug, it might be a natural double (for me, that is) if someone could develop a sax fingering serpent. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2373 Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 06:28:39 -0400 From: sabutin To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Motivation Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- Daniel Pliskin wrote: There are lots of great trombonists, out there, but only you are going to be able to play music, exactly the way you think it ought to be played. I’m not talking about perfection, here. It’s more of an ability to express something the way you instantaneously “hear” that it should be expressed. And being able to pull off a phrase or two is like a mini-religious experience. In a Charlie Vernon masterclass I attended about 15 years ago, he described an afternoon of practicing in a cabin in Georgia, many years before, when everything he had been working on - "song and wind", driving the body by the power of the imagination, so that conscious thoughts of "how do I do this" can recede - just clicked. He was able to play without a thought of the instrument, or the embouchure, or the slide. Only the song...he said that he still tried to recreate that feeling all the time, but was rarely successful. ==================== I don't mean to criticize Charlie Vernon here...especially at third hand over a period of 15 + years...but it has been my own personal experience that the only way to "recreate" that feeling is to NOT try to recreate it. If one has an epiphany of this sort there is a common and quite human natural tendency to become fixated on the experience itself rather than achieving the state that PRODUCED that experience. There is another Zen koan that says "If you see the Buddha sitting by the road...kill him". (This list is getting quite esoteric, isn't it? Time for the Daffy Duck antidote soon, I think...or a Slide-O-Mix discussion or something...) This koan could be considered to refer to this tendency to try to recreate experiences. In order to remember that state you have to forget it. Really. You weren't "remembering" it when it first happened, were you? ==================== I don't think he was talking about practicing for an audition or a recital. I think he was just practicing for the joy. In answer to the earlier question (goal-oriented practice compatible or not with practicing because that's who you are), I think a distinction can be made - I'll call it goal-oriented practice and process-oriented practice. You can work toward a goal if you tend towards process-oriented practice, but I'm not sure it's as easy to enjoy or celebrate the process if you tend to be goal-oriented. I'm not sure any of us are purely one way or another, but I think Sam's point was to strive towards practicing almost purely for the process. The goal or the outcome becomes an afterthought - the internal drive to practice completely overshadows the external rewards. Does that make sense? Gabe ================ Yes, it makes sense. Now kill it. The "rewards" are not important, and at the same time they are inevitable. At the highest level, you must do this thing w/absolutely no hope of reward while simultaneously being quite confident that these rewards will come. Does that make sense? No, of course not...but there it is, the central paradox of the artist. I mean...y'gotta eat, right? If you were to believe that you could achieve a certain level of playing by this practice and still not be "rewarded" on a practical trust-in-God-but-tie-your-camel level and you were anywhere NEAR line level sane...it would be time to take up another profession, right? But here we all are...Charlie Vernon and the rest of us as well...looking for that afternoon in the Georgia cabin while at the same time trying to pay our mortgage. Crazy as bedbugs, the lot of us. Ain't life grand? Later... S. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2373 Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 06:47:18 -0400 From: sabutin To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Motivation Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1192131648==_ma============" This topic has made me think. Clearly I am in most areas a goal oriented person. Practice is not purely one or the other, but more goal oriented than process. Sam would suggest becoming more process oriented, it seems. The more I consider it the more sense it seems to make. Some areas of life are purely process - my church, for example, or my kids.Κ If you go that direction, you need to somehow avoid the trap of not having goals and not making intelligent progress. You see this all the time with the recreational YMCA weightlifter, in the gym year after year doing the same workout lifting the same amount of weight. That's who he is, that's what he does, it is rewarding in some fashion or he wouldn't continue. But with a little more thought he'd be making progress instead of stagnating.Κ =============== And with a little LESS thought he might be making quantum leaps into whole other REALMS of "lifting". ============================ Do you all know the story of Sadaharatu Oh? (spelling police, come get me now) ============== Sadaharu, I believe...no felony, just a cross cultural misdemeanor. ================= He was a famous Japanese home run hitter, had some incredible statistics over a long career, and the goofiest stance you ever saw, balanced on one leg like a crane. He continued practicing searching for that perfect swing. When he finally did one, or maybe it was three in a row, I forget, he hung up his bat. There was no drive anymore.Κ ===================== I don't know about that story...not that I doubt it, I'm just not familiar enough w/Oh's career one way or another...but I AM familiar with the Japanese approach to the physical arts in general (as refined in their martial arts approach and Zen) and also w/the broad picture of Oh's quest for "The Swing" to understand the concept. His whole career was one of practice oriented rather than goal oriented action...based to a large degree on the samurai concept of "doing" rather than "winning". Read Musashi Miyamoto...The Five Rings...for a good look at this idea. Musashi was a swordsman who eventually refined his art past fighting his opponent to reach something else, another plane of action entirely. When I said earlier in this thread something about "making practice your life" this is what I had in mind. Imagine it being a life or death act...THAT"LL center your attention in a quick hurry. Bet on it. Later... S. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2373 Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 06:50:59 -0400 From: sabutin To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Samurai Bones (was Motivation) Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I can't help noticing a difference between the idea of practicing "because that's who you are and that's what you do. No hope of reward" (from Sam) and the idea that "We all constantly need something to look forward to, a goal to be working on" (from Beth). But something tells me that these approaches are not incompatible with each other. Can anyone explain? JG ========================= I see these things as different, but not contradictory. I heard something profound in those words from Sam. At its best, our practice is like the art of the Samurai: we take a length of metal and make a mark on the air. We make each mark as beautiful as we can make it. No one hears, no one sees. We do not do it for reward, not even the reward of getting 'better'. Perfect contact with the universe at the moment of doing it, and then it is gone. Beth's reminding us that we're goal seeking animals (thanks to Maslow, Rogers et al for that). Practising for no reward, no return on investment of ourselves and our time and for no other reason than making a beautiful mark on the air is what we do, what we are, is what will take a player to perfection. And that is a beautiful goal to seek. }:-D) Steve C =============== Once again...NO GOAL. Seek THAT goal...and there you are in the loop again. A larger loop, perhaps...but does size count here? S. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2373 Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 11:04:34 -0000 From: Luke Kent To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: The greatest Symphony..Anyone still have that doc? Message-ID: <20020428203434.w8e76p@osprey.ntu.edu.au.students.ntu.edu.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There was a document caled the greatest symphony posted here at one stage..i saved it but lost oit./.now id love to show some friends..if anyone has it could they email it to me..thanks -- Luke Kent ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2373 Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 07:11:40 -0400 From: sabutin To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Samurai Bones (was Motivation) Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" One more thing, from the same book. Russell Banks, telling the story of meeting again a gangster he once knew named Jocko: "I asked Jocko why he'd hung around with all those poets and artists and musicians back then. 'You were one scary dude, man,' I said. "He said: 'Yeah, well, artists are a lot like gangsters. They both know that the official version, the one everyone else believes, is a lie.' "He was right about that, too." Gabe ============== Yup. S. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2373 Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 09:19:41 -0500 From: "Richard Zemry Johnson" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Ideas for discreet warm-up Message-ID: <00d801c1eebf$bd37cec0$9aab9d42@zemry> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00D5_01C1EE95.D41EA340" Wow!!! What a great way to practice. What kind of wine is best with this practice? ****************************************************************************** Richard Zemry Johnson, Jr.ΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚ "The Untouchables" Jazz Ensemble Shreveport Metropolitan Concert Band ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, "There won't come a time when you won't have to practice anymore." J. J. Johnson ********************************************************************************* I'm not satisfied with anything about my playing. I know what I want. I can hear it; but it will take time and study to get it" -Sonny Rollins (1956) ----- Original Message ----- From: mahler427@aol.com To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 3:54 PM Subject: Re: Ideas for discreet warm-up Keith, One of the best ways to practice this is through actual simulation. I practice all of those "warm-up and wait" piecesin the following manner. I is plan a nice dinner with my fiancee, and before we start to make dinner, I get a thourough warm-up on my alto. I then help cook dinner and sit down to eat, one I am done, I pick up my alto and play my entrance. I find that after a few good dinners, I can play the excerpt no problem, and when I am in the performance I feel free to listen to the music around me knowing that I have already performed this several times before. That's what helps me... -Joseph Frye ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2373 Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 09:21:22 -0500 From: "Richard Zemry Johnson" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: ITF Message-ID: <011701c1eebf$f8dd4720$9aab9d42@zemry> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I received my registration receipt and info in the mail yesterday! **************************************************************************** ** Richard Zemry Johnson, Jr. "The Untouchables" Jazz Ensemble Shreveport Metropolitan Concert Band ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, , "There won't come a time when you won't have to practice anymore." J. J. Johnson **************************************************************************** ***** I'm not satisfied with anything about my playing. I know what I want. I can hear it; but it will take time and study to get it" -Sonny Rollins (1956) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth Lewis" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 11:44 AM Subject: ITF > Hi, > > I was wondering if anyone else was having problems with the online registration. I did this a couple of weeks ago and haven't had any sort of response regarding that or a message I sent using the website's contact form a few days ago, although they apparently have debited the fees from my account. Does anyone know if they are usually this slow to send a confirmation or receipt? > > Beth Lewis > > > See Dave Matthews Band live or win a signed guitar > http://r.lycos.com/r/bmgfly_mail_dmb/http://win.ipromotions.com/lycos_020201 /splash.asp > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2373--