TROMBONE-L Digest 2356 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) RE: need help with some improv by Gary Sloane 2) RE: Slidomixphobia (Was Start with the Best, if you can!) by "Stephen M Jones" 3) Two of a Mind CD by BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com 4) Re: About last night.... by "Tom C. Shaddox" 5) RE: About last night.... by "Gary Maxwell" 6) Re: Cornering the Market? by "Tom C. Shaddox" 7) RE: Slidomixphobia (Was Start with the Best, if you can!) by "Daniel Pliskin" 8) Re: Cornering the market? by Joe Dixon 9) Re: JJ Johnson website by "Richard B. Human, Jr." 10) Re: Maestro Trombones by Eric & Candice Swanson 11) RE: [TL]RE: Open Pedal Bb vs. 5th Pos. Inline Double Valved Bb by richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL 12) RE: Followup on some replys by richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL 13) RE: [TL]RE: Open Pedal Bb vs. 5th Pos. Inline Double Valved Bb by "Daniel Pliskin" 14) Re: Maestro Trombones by "Isaac J. Roorda" 15) RE: [TL]RE: Open Pedal Bb vs. 5th Pos. Inline Double Valved Bb by "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" 16) Rouse Concerto by "Stephen Lange" 17) RE: Missing fundamental by "Wessner, John" 18) Re: Maestro Trombones by Brian French 19) Calling experienced eBayers! by "Berggren, Erik" 20) Ziess Brass? by Brian French 21) Re: Ziess Brass? by Walter Barrett 22) Re: Calling experienced eBayers! by "Isaac J. Roorda" 23) RE: Calling experienced eBayers! by "Dyke, David" 24) RE: Open Pedal Bb vs. 5th Pos. Inline Double Valved Bb by "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> 25) Re: Calling experienced eBayers! by "D.J. Kennedy" 26) RE: Calling experienced eBayers! by "David Tew" 27) Re: Ziess Brass? by BassBonist@aol.com 28) Re: Ziess Brass? by Craig Parmerlee 29) Re: Calling experienced eBayers! by "Daniel Pliskin" 30) Re: Ziess Brass? by "D.J. Kennedy" 31) Re: Calling experienced eBayers! by Craig Parmerlee 32) RE: Calling experienced eBayers! by "Dyke, David" 33) Re: Calling experienced eBayers! by "D.J. Kennedy" 34) RE: Rouse Concerto by "Bill Stanley" 35) Re: Open Pedal Bb vs. 5th Pos. Inline Double Valved Bb by "Adrian Drover" 36) Re: Ziess Brass? by Brian French ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2356 Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:20:25 -0700 From: Gary Sloane To: Robin Eubanks Cc: Subject: RE: need help with some improv Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" OK, I've got to brag here, so feel free to delete, if you like. My 18-year-old nephew was featured this Sunday at Avery Fisher Hall at Lincoln Center. High school choruses from around the South were followed by a Long Island high school chorus and orchestra, including an impressive student conductor/violin soloist. But after Prokofiev's Lt. Kiji Suite, this kid stood out in front with his tenor sax and improvised 8 or 9 minutes on Prokofiev's changes. It sounded like it could have been Trane, honest. Wish I could play like that! Oh, yeah: Every time he played a flatted fifth or slipped in some multiphonics, the cellists winced. Watch out for this kid in the next few years. His name is Sam Dillon, and FWIW, it's the same high school that gave us Sara Hughes. Gary Good points by Paul and the practice system he adapted to trombone. I like that concept of starting with the basics and slowly expanding and applying them. I try to do that when I practice and when I teach. I also like the analogy of speech and conversation when applied to improvisation. I've been using it for the last few years when I teach beginning improv. I think two major stumbling blocks when learning to improvise are confidence and concentration. Obviously it's hard to have either when you don't feel comfortable taking a solo. For that reason I would suggest a compromise to completely writing out a solo. Although I'm not against that in the beginning. Getting a good running start to your solo is very important because it gives you confidence. If you play some "questionable" notes in the beginning of your solo you can get so caught up thinking, "Damn, that's not the note I meant to play", that you lose your concentration as the chords fly by like a bullet train. Working out the first phrase or two of your solo is not a bad alternative. Then you can play theme and variation with those ideas. Relating and quoting directly from the melody is also a good idea. The composer spent a lot of time choosing and editing which notes to use over the chords so you KNOW these notes work. I see DJ has been on here recently. He's been on my thread for a year or so. He's different! His delivery takes a little getting used to but beneath it all I've found him to be knowledgeable about the trombone and related things. I finally met him at a gig in St. Louis in January. He's a hippy straight out of the '60's. He's an artist who paints and collects instruments. As we left the club, he gave us a few blasts from his trombone from outside his truck in 15 degree weather! -Robin Visit my website at: http://www.robineubanks.com/ Hear complete songs at: http://www.mp3.com/robineubanks -- Gary Sloane sloane@batnet.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2356 Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 13:27:15 -0400 From: "Stephen M Jones" To: "'Daniel Pliskin'" , Subject: RE: Slidomixphobia (Was Start with the Best, if you can!) Message-ID: <005201c1e0b4$f57d76e0$d9585582@Hartwell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's not real important just so long as you stay away from blue cheese. I found the cheese chunks clogged the spit valve. But then again, maybe the real problem is my lung capacity. Sorry, couldn't resist. -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Pliskin [mailto:daniel_pliskin@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 4:12 PM To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Slidomixphobia (Was Start with the Best, if you can!) >AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >Personally I am looking forward to talking about "Slide-o-mix" again. > I understand that the basic lubricant for a trombone slide is oil and water, in some form or another. I've been using French dressing, instead. It's easier to find, convenient and I prefer the smell. But, what I really like is Ranch dressing. Do y'all see a problem in my switching to Ranch dressing? How about Thousand Island? Thanks, DanP ~~ OO /\ {} _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2356 Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:32:07 EDT From: BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Two of a Mind CD Message-ID: <8a.16d7bba6.29e5df27@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just received Doug Yeo's latest in the mail today. Doug Yeo, Nick Hudson, New composition by Adrian Drover and some of the bands with the Williams Fairey Brass Band and David Chapman as accompanist. Fabulous. Get one. beldon wade ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2356 Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 13:43:18 -0500 From: "Tom C. Shaddox" To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: About last night.... Message-ID: <3CB487C6.61F399@fnc.fujitsu.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike, There are around a dozen titles in print for concert band based on William Billings' "Chester", and the one we played was an arrangement by William Schuman from the Theodore Presser Company (grade 5). Great piece, and one our section had to work on to get the rhythmic section correct. At one point in rehearsal, the conductor had the horn section play their similar lick, and then asked us to play it just like that. He tapped his baton on the stand, and raised his baton for us to play again, and without a word among the 9 of us, we raised our trombones in unison - with our hands stuck in our bells! Tom Shaddox, 9th chair tenor ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2356 Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 11:50:35 -0700 From: "Gary Maxwell" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: About last night.... Message-ID: <659829993461CA49942D1312DE343691830A25@edcenmail1.bcsd.k12.ca.us> content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1E0C0.99229488" From: Tom C. Shaddox [mailto:Tom.Shaddox@fnc.fujitsu.com] At one point in rehearsal, the conductor had the horn section play their similar lick, and then asked us to play it just like that. He tapped his baton on the stand, and raised his baton for us to play again, and without a word among the 9 of us, we raised our trombones in unison - with our hands stuck in our bells! ========================================================= THAT's the way! I hope you played a lot of wrong notes also. (:>)) Gary Maxwell ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2356 Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 13:54:29 -0500 From: "Tom C. Shaddox" To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Cornering the Market? Message-ID: <3CB48A65.FD363C08@fnc.fujitsu.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As I said in my post of March 8th: "BTW and FYI, Steinway (parent company of Bach, Benge, Conn, King and related trombones) has withdrawn their bid to buy the instrument manufacturing branch of Boosey and Hawkes. "I'm told that Steinway's financial interest in wind instruments is focused on those for school and education. It seems that the beginner and student instrument market is fairly recession proof (unlike luxury pianos), i.e. people don't wait for better economic times to enroll their children in school band and orchestra programs." Steinway's strategy for recession proffing their earnings and thereby their stock value seems sound, although it remains to be seen what the long term impact to their storied brands will be. Steinway's stock market symbol is LVB. You could have gotten in around 11 at the end of last September; the stock is sitting at 19 now. Their next quarterly finacial report is due out on the 25th of this month. Tom Shaddox, 9th chair tenor ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2356 Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 18:59:48 From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Slidomixphobia (Was Start with the Best, if you can!) Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed It's not real important just so long as you stay away from blue cheese. I found the cheese chunks clogged the spit valve. But then again, maybe the real problem is my lung capacity. WARNING - donât try this at home, folks, or any place else, for that matter! Once you get used to horns that are missing a few important water valves, you find that you just need to twirl your instrument, in a showy fashion, while marching, to dump the condensation out the bell. Just remember to lock your slide, first. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2356 Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:22:14 -0500 From: Joe Dixon To: craig@acticalc.com, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Cornering the market? Message-ID: <001a01c1e0c5$057be7b0$e1e7d940@TROMBONECZAR> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT It's easy to see why this seems like a tangled mess. Selmer (which already owned Bach, etc.) bought UMI, Steinway, etc., however, Selmer Corp. then changed its corporate name to Steinway. Confused already? Steinway was the classier, higher visability, public-traded name, so it made sense to use that as the parent corporation. Joe Dixon www.tromboneczar.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Parmerlee" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 11:45 PM Subject: RE: Cornering the market? > At 09:30 PM 4/9/2002 -0500, Tom Izzo wrote: > >Earl, > > > >I thought Steinway Pianos, Roth Strings, Bach & Bundy Brasses, Emerson > >Flutes, were all owned by Selmer? > > It is the other way around, I think. I believe Steinway is the powerhouse > that took over both UMI and Selmer > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2356 Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:21:08 -0500 From: "Richard B. Human, Jr." To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Cc: Matt Calvert Subject: Re: JJ Johnson website Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi All, The JJ Johnson Web site is temporarily housed at trombone.org. Mat and I are still working out some bugs (getting the scripts to play nice and making sure all the links work), but you can find it at: http://www.trombone.org/jjjohnson/ Like I said - some of the internal links of the page are broken. I think we will have that fixed this weekend. RH on 4/9/02 11:21 PM, Roger L. Karren at rlkarren@cc.usu.edu spake forth: > Have I missed something?? I thought there was a JJ Johnson website... I > know I've seen it, just can't find it now. > > Roger > > > > -- Dr. Richard Human Jr. richard@trombone.org Assistant Professor of Music Trombone and Music Theory Mississippi State University http://www.msstate.edu/dept/musiced/ Office: (662) 325-2871 Founder, Webmaster and Publisher trombone.org: A web site for trombonists. http://www.trombone.org/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2356 Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:37:48 -0500 From: Eric & Candice Swanson Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Maestro Trombones Message-ID: <3CB4A29B.BA19F0EE@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Isaac J. Roorda" wrote: > I'm wondering about the quality of Maestro brand trombones? Is this an > import brand? Could I get one repaired if necessary? > Isaac, I've been in the trombone business for quite a few years, and I've never heard of Maestro brand trombones. I think I'd stick with a well known brand like Bach, Conn, King, Yamaha, Benge, or a few others. Eric Swanson ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2356 Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:37:28 -0400 From: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL To: daniel_pliskin@hotmail.com, trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: RE: [TL]RE: Open Pedal Bb vs. 5th Pos. Inline Double Valved Bb Message-ID: <81F62454EA21B94EA95517180D7303730243F9D8@lee-is-102.lee.army.mil> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1E0CF.87BD8080" Well, close. Q - here, I'll attach a definition from electronics. Quality factor of an inductor or capacitor. It is the ratio of a component's reactance (energy stored) to its effective series resistance (energy dissipated). For a tuned circuit, a figure of merrit used in bandwidth calculations. Q is the ratio of reactive power to resistive power in a tuned circuit. Also the symbol for charge in coulombs (Q for quantity). End quote.Ê But what that means in practical terms is how narrow the peak is, not how high it goes. In trombone terms it would mean your buzz has to be right on the note or you'll crack it. If your slide is positioned just right for A = 440, with low Q you are still getting some response maybe at 435 or 445, with high Q maybe you need 439.5 to 440.5 to get much response. And what that has to do with the pedal tone escapes me, but I'm sure the original poster understood it. I'm no longer literate in electronics, and this isn't a concept mechanical engineers use much when we talk vibrations. -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Pliskin [mailto:daniel_pliskin@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 9:17 PM To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: RE: [TL]RE: Open Pedal Bb vs. 5th Pos. Inline Double Valved Bb >OK, you guys are kiling me. What is the "horn Q"? Rick, "Q" is a measure of resonance. The higher the Q, the more it wants to resonate and the more it wants to resonate at one frequency. Things that go clunk, like pottery, rather than cling, like crystal, still resonate, but at a lower Q. So, trying to lip a note up and down, is a measure of how much the horn wants to resonate at that one frequency. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2356 Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:37:25 -0400 From: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL To: afdoting@nccn.net, trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Followup on some replys Message-ID: <81F62454EA21B94EA95517180D7303730243F9D7@lee-is-102.lee.army.mil> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1E0CF.86281370" Okay, now I'm lost. I made a false assumption - I guessed that due to your software the minus signs were reversed.Ê In every plot I've seen of frequencies of musical notes, and in several I've done while in engineering school, the fundamental was the loudest and the overtones got generally progessively quieter, except sometimes up around five to seven you'd get some louder ones.Ê You are showing the fundamental as quietest by large factors - almost four times as quiet, and the large increases for each overtone continuing on the way up. I can't see any way this makes sense at all - I don't think you'd be hearing the lower note as the pitch center if the higher overtones were this loud.Ê You show the fundamental with the open pedal as being quieter than VV5, but in exactly the same relationship with the overtones as the previous notes. Not only is that unexpected to me, it doesn't make sense in terms of what you hear. We hear a pedal as a distinctly different timbre because its overtone series varies from a "real" note, but your results don't show that at all.Ê Please don't construe this as an attack, your experiment was ingenious and should have answered some of these questions. I'm at a loss to know how to interpret this data, though.Ê Maybe you've got a really weird horn!Ê -----Original Message----- From: Frank Doting [mailto:afdoting@nccn.net] Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 10:03 PM To: trombone list Subject: Followup on some replys I have received several reply's to my posting of the "missing fundamental" spectrum analysis results. I'll try to answer some of these. The test results previously posted: Frequency/note 1st position VV5 58 Hz/pedal Bb -21 -28 (not pedal here, second partial etc) 116 Hz/Bb, 2nd partial -17 -21 174 Hz/F, 3rd partial -13 -16 233 Hz/Bb, 4th partial -15 -18 291 Hz/D, 5th partial -19 -20 Readings are in dB, frequencies are approximate but within a couple of Hz. Some comments to reply's: 1) Yes, the 58 Hz fundamental note amplitude is LESS than the overtones in all cases. I believe the microphone used is near flat in its response over this range. The software program uses zero dB as the reference and all of the readings are below this. More negative is a smaller signal, -21 dB is quieter than -17 dB. 2) Yes, only the 58 Hz Bb note was played on the horn. Once in first position as a pedal and then in VV5 as a second partial. Someone asked me to run another test playing the VV5 pedal - I can reach this note however can not play it long enough for the analysis program to get sufficient data! 3) There was no attempt to play the pedal and VV5 Bb at the same level. I could have easily done this but did not, the relative levels between overtones of each test were of interest to me. 4) Horn "Q" is an interesting subject. Those involved with electronics can relate to this subject by considering a circuit consisting of inductance, capacitance and resistance and the "resonant" situation. Once stimulated, the circuit continues oscillating at the resonant frequency and decays in a fashion related to losses in the circuit. One reply suggested that, in the case of a trombone, one could get a feel for "Q" by seeing how far from resonance (horn in a normal slide position for a given note) one could lip the note up or down. The higher the Q, the less you would be able to move the note before essentially dropping out in amplitude. 5) I recorded overtones only in a limited range which made it easier to identify the notes. There are obviously more overtones. Overtones are NOT the same as partials; some partials are, however, overtones. Overtones are simply multiples of the fundamental frequency. Other comments: 1) I have tried in the past to make impedance measurements using driving coil excitation into a MPCE and microphones at both the MPCE and output of the bell. Very limited success was obtained. This would have allowed the Q measurement. 2) The fact that nearby overtone amplitudes are higher in many cases than the fundamental is quite ordinary. In fact as the amplitude is increased on a given note/horn, the overtone amplitudes increase faster than the fundamental in most cases. In my opinion, this is one explanation for "brightness", a term that I use to describe the characteristics of certain horns. I recently played an Olds Super Star that went bright at even very modest levels, in contrast, my King 5B is quite stable up to very high outputs. Not everyone is going to agree with my use of the word bright - so be it! 3) I have also done some spectrum analysis on the sound within the bowl of the MPCE (#60 hole drilled near the bottom of the bowl). Overtones are produced over a large range however their relative amplitudes are mostly independent of how much sound is being produced (i.e.: quite linear with the amplitude of the fundamental). Thus indicating that the horn is the most non-linear part of the system. This is not to say that the chops can not be made to go non-linear; I assume that a good note is desired and is the ultimate goal as an input to the MPCE. OK, enough of this....... Regards, Grass Valley Frank ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2356 Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 21:00:37 From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: RE: [TL]RE: Open Pedal Bb vs. 5th Pos. Inline Double Valved Bb Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Tim, It would help if you read other people's posts, before arguing with them. There's no argument here. DanP From: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL Reply-To: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: [TL]RE: Open Pedal Bb vs. 5th Pos. Inline Double Valved Bb Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:37:28 -0400 Well, close. Q - here, I'll attach a definition from electronics. Quality factor of an inductor or capacitor. It is the ratio of a component's reactance (energy stored) to its effective series resistance (energy dissipated). For a tuned circuit, a figure of merrit used in bandwidth calculations. Q is the ratio of reactive power to resistive power in a tuned circuit. Also the symbol for charge in coulombs (Q for quantity). End quote. But what that means in practical terms is how narrow the peak is, not how high it goes. In trombone terms it would mean your buzz has to be right on the note or you'll crack it. If your slide is positioned just right for A = 440, with low Q you are still getting some response maybe at 435 or 445, with high Q maybe you need 439.5 to 440.5 to get much response. And what that has to do with the pedal tone escapes me, but I'm sure the original poster understood it. I'm no longer literate in electronics, and this isn't a concept mechanical engineers use much when we talk vibrations. -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Pliskin [mailto:daniel_pliskin@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 9:17 PM To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: RE: [TL]RE: Open Pedal Bb vs. 5th Pos. Inline Double Valved Bb >OK, you guys are kiling me. What is the "horn Q"? Rick, "Q" is a measure of resonance. The higher the Q, the more it wants to resonate and the more it wants to resonate at one frequency. Things that go clunk, like pottery, rather than cling, like crystal, still resonate, but at a lower Q. So, trying to lip a note up and down, is a measure of how much the horn wants to resonate at that one frequency. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. _________________________________________________________________ Join the worldâs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2356 Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 17:32:30 -0500 From: "Isaac J. Roorda" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Maestro Trombones Message-ID: <007901c1e0df$9c3a9ba0$040aa8c0@IJRoorda> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That's the advice my director gave and I intend to follow it, but wanted to see if anyone on this list was familiar with that brand name. Thanks. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric & Candice Swanson" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 3:37 PM Subject: Re: Maestro Trombones > "Isaac J. Roorda" wrote: > > > I'm wondering about the quality of Maestro brand trombones? Is this an > > import brand? Could I get one repaired if necessary? > > > > Isaac, > > I've been in the trombone business for quite a few years, and I've never > heard of Maestro brand trombones. I think I'd stick with a well known > brand like Bach, Conn, King, Yamaha, Benge, or a few others. > > Eric Swanson > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2356 Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 17:47:49 -0500 From: "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" To: "'daniel_pliskin@hotmail.com'" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: [TL]RE: Open Pedal Bb vs. 5th Pos. Inline Double Valved Bb Message-ID: <587F49FABBEDD411A68F00A0C9EA313B5FD1FD@dasmthkhn561.amedd.army.mil> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1E0E1.BD643910" OK. I get it. My bad jokes & ideas must have a low Q, right? They go clunk and don't resonate with anyone. That would be my Social (I)Q. Rick Marple San Antonio TX (Thanks Dan) -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Pliskin [mailto:daniel_pliskin@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 8:17 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: RE: [TL]RE: Open Pedal Bb vs. 5th Pos. Inline Double Valved Bb >OK, you guys are kiling me. What is the "horn Q"? Rick, "Q" is a measure of resonance. The higher the Q, the more it wants to resonate and the more it wants to resonate at one frequency. Things that go clunk, like pottery, rather than cling, like crystal, still resonate, but at a lower Q. So, trying to lip a note up and down, is a measure of how much the horn wants to resonate at that one frequency. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2356 Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 22:40:19 -0500 From: "Stephen Lange" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Rouse Concerto Message-ID: <004f01c1e10a$9abc7890$6401a8c0@stephen> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello List! For those in and around the St. Louis area, I thought I would let everyone know that our Principal Trombonist, Timothy Myers, will be performing the Rouse Trombone Concerto on this weekend's subscription concerts. We had our first rehearsal this morning - Tim sounds absolutely incredible! What a neat piece!!!! The rest of the concert is a blast as well - Bernstein-Chichester Psalms and On the Waterfront Symphonic Suite, and Ruggles - Men and Mountains. Lots of trombone stuff... For more information regarding concert times and tickets to the Saint Louis Symphony, please visit www.slso.org For information about Christopher Rouse and the piece please visit his website - here's a direct link: http://www.christopherrouse.com/tbnctopress.html Hope to see some of you there!!! Steve Lange Saint Louis Symphony Orchestra ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2356 Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 03:59:02 -0400 From: "Wessner, John" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Missing fundamental Message-ID: content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1E12E.BE5F9368" I ran some experiments years ago after being told the fundamental was missing. I closed off the mouthpiece except for a hole though which I introduced a relatively pure tone. I measured the mouthpiece pressure variation over the range from pedal BBb to about the 10th partial. There is effectively no resonance response on an old Reynolds. Benade says that the fundamental - such as it is - is somewhere around a GG. I couldn't tell. jw -----Original Message----- From: Frank Doting [mailto:afdoting@nccn.net] Sent: pon 9.4.2007 13:32 To: Trombones and related issues forum. Cc: Subject: Missing fundamental I became curious about the missing fundamental/Pedal note statements and ran a quick test on my bass bone which was reported. Subsequently I ran the same test on my Meinl Weston model 18 tuba using a Miraphone TU 29 MPCE. Results: Note/ Frequency dB Pedal Bb/29 Hz -39 Bb (below staff)/58 Hz -19 F/87 Hz -22 Bb/116 Hz -24 D/146 Hz -24 The condenser electret microphone element response drops off around 30/40 Hz so I suspect the Pedal Bb was actually higher in amplitude. I am not disputing the "missing fundamental" concept. The measurements taken, however, say that it is not the predominant factor with Pedal notes on either the trombone or tuba. Grass Valley Frank ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2356 Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:14:38 -0400 From: Brian French To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Maestro Trombones Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Isaac, I've never heard of those either. If your local music shop has one for you to try, go ahead and give it a shot! You might like it. Who knows? We might all be playing Maestros someday. (It will take a lot to persuade me away from Bach,though) --Brian ______________________ Brian E. French Principal Trombone Winston-Salem Symphony Orchestra on 4/10/02 6:32 PM, Isaac J. Roorda at tubaman@iowatelecom.net wrote: > That's the advice my director gave and I intend to follow it, but wanted to > see if anyone on this list was familiar with that brand name. > > Thanks. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Eric & Candice Swanson" > To: "Trombones and related issues forum." > Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 3:37 PM > Subject: Re: Maestro Trombones > > >> "Isaac J. Roorda" wrote: >> >>> I'm wondering about the quality of Maestro brand trombones? Is this an >>> import brand? Could I get one repaired if necessary? >>> >> >> Isaac, >> >> I've been in the trombone business for quite a few years, and I've never >> heard of Maestro brand trombones. I think I'd stick with a well known >> brand like Bach, Conn, King, Yamaha, Benge, or a few others. >> >> Eric Swanson >> > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2356 Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 06:45:56 -0600 From: "Berggren, Erik" To: "'Trombone-L'" Subject: Calling experienced eBayers! Message-ID: <72F9096757B3D51186C500E01828EA70029A13@BKXCHUSR01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1E156.D30C99E0" Howdy! I'm considering the purchase of an instrument through eBay. For those of you who are experienced at this, would you please explain the process to me? I know the basics of bidding, etc., but the main thing I want to know is, is there always a trial period the winning bidder has with the instrument before he/she turns loose of their $$$, or does that just depend on the individual seller? Erik B. - AAA (Always An Amateur) ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2356 Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 09:23:24 -0400 From: Brian French To: Subject: Ziess Brass? Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi everyone, Have any of you ever heard of brass instruments by Karl Ziess? I've found a used bass trumpet for sale at a suspiciously tempting price. I "googled" the manufacturer and came up pretty short. Thanks, Brian ________________________________ Brian E. French Principal Trombone Winston-Salem Symphony Orchestra ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2356 Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 09:35:42 -0400 From: Walter Barrett To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Ziess Brass? Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 4/11/02 9:23 AM, Brian French expounded thusly... > Hi everyone, > > Have any of you ever heard of brass instruments by Karl Ziess? I've found a > used bass trumpet for sale at a suspiciously tempting price. I "googled" > the manufacturer and came up pretty short. > > Thanks, > Brian > > ________________________________ > Brian E. French > Principal Trombone > Winston-Salem Symphony Orchestra > Brian- It's probably a stencil horn, made by Cerveny. (at least that's what I've heard about Zeiss tubas...) -- Walter Barrett "Everything we know, you know." -Enron CEO Kenneth Lay Yamaha Artist/Clinician Tenor, Alto, Bass Trombones Euphonium Bass Trumpet Tuba ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2356 Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:47:31 -0500 From: "Isaac J. Roorda" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Calling experienced eBayers! Message-ID: <00d201c1e15f$6edb67e0$040aa8c0@IJRoorda> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00CF_01C1E135.84A4E580" Yes, that usually depends on the seller, though no seller can affordÊnot toÊrefund your money or replace the product if it is found to be defective or not as described. Look for information on a warranty and/or returns policy. If the info isn't there, ask about it. ----- Original Message ----- From: Berggren, Erik To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 7:45 AM Subject: Calling experienced eBayers! Howdy! I'm considering the purchase of an instrument through eBay. For those of you who are experienced at this, would you please explain the process to me? I know the basics of bidding, etc., but the main thing I want to know is, is there always a trial period the winning bidder has with the instrument before he/she turns loose of their $$$, or does that just depend on the individual seller? Erik B. - AAA (Always An Amateur) ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2356 Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 09:45:41 -0400 From: "Dyke, David" To: "'erik.berggren@state.ks.us'" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Calling experienced eBayers! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1E15F.2BDB7570" Eric, Some time back Chris had written a brief memo on his recommendations of how an instrument purchase should be conducted. It is an excellent guide line. Unfortunately, I do not have it within reach at the moment. Maybe he'll send it offÊaddressing the list once again or forward it to you directly. With Regards ~ Dave -----Original Message----- From: Berggren, Erik [mailto:erik.berggren@state.ks.us] Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 8:46 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Calling experienced eBayers! Howdy! I'm considering the purchase of an instrument through eBay. For those of you who are experienced at this, would you please explain the process to me? I know the basics of bidding, etc., but the main thing I want to know is, is there always a trial period the winning bidder has with the instrument before he/she turns loose of their $$$, or does that just depend on the individual seller? Erik B. - AAA (Always An Amateur) ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2356 Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:59:59 -0500 From: "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Open Pedal Bb vs. 5th Pos. Inline Double Valved Bb Message-ID: <47763CCCA27C4F4FA4BEF7DDB754A1E7124AB5@marshall.jmls.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > Yes, it's easy to tell the difference. With the 9' pedal, your chops are > inside the mouthpiece. With the 18' pedal, your chops are in danger of > slipping off the edge of the rim. > > 18-foot pedal? Why, that's practically longer than my whole car! What use is that? :-) ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ David Guion, Cataloging Librarian The John Marshall Law School 315 S. Plymouth Ct. Chicago, IL 60604 Voice: (312) 427-2737 x 552 Fax; (312) 427-8307 8guion@jmls.edu Should part-time band directors be called semi-conductors? Quidquid latine dictum sit, profundum viditur. ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2356 Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:35:31 -0500 From: "D.J. Kennedy" To: tubaman@iowatelecom.net Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Calling experienced eBayers! Message-ID: <3CB5AD43.69C68F40@midwest.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------5AF80D6517DF5D365085711A" ask lots of questions if you are not sure --if bad pics --and saying we dont know much be careful --dealers///music stores --might allow test with restocking fee -- and you pay shipping both ways too you are expected to send $$ by e payment --postal mo --certified check communication is the key!!!!!!!!!!!!!! if you dont ask ------they dont tell !!!! Isaac J. Roorda wrote: Yes, that usually depends on the seller, though no seller can afford not to refund your money or replace the product if it is found to be defective or not as described. Look for information on a warranty and/or returns policy. If the info isn't there, ask about it. ----- Original Message ----- From: Berggren, Erik To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 7:45 AM Subject: Calling experienced eBayers! Howdy! I'm considering the purchase of an instrument through eBay. For those of you who are experienced at this, would you please explain the process to me? I know the basics of bidding, etc., but the main thing I want to know is, is there always a trial period the winning bidder has with the instrument before he/she turns loose of their $$$, or does that just depend on the individual seller? Erik B. - AAA (Always An Amateur) ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2356 Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 09:40:16 -0500 From: "David Tew" To: "'Trombones and related issues forum.'" Subject: RE: Calling experienced eBayers! Message-ID: <004401c1e166$cc9adee0$0d01a8c0@compaq> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0045_01C1E13C.E3D59FC0" Erik, I have bought several instruments through ebay auctions and have had good experiences. Only one instrument was in worse shape than I expected (a 1940's King 2B) but I still kept it. I have also sold two trombones on ebay.Ê Every seller has their own return policy and payment policy. Read the ad carefully and if a return policy is not stated clearly, email the seller and ask. Each seller also states the kind of payment they accept. I prefer epayments through billpoint as it provides the measure of safely that stopping payment through your credit card gives you.Ê Look carefully as all the sellers feedback. Don't just look a the number score - read every message. If the seller has any negative feedback, be careful. Ask the seller how he resolved the problem on that transaction.Ê Keep in mind that pictures of instrumentÊALWAYS look better than the instrument. Email the seller and ask detailed questions about serial numbers, plate wear on the inner slide, slide action, lacquer wear, dents, creases, evidence of repair, ease of tuning slide movement. If the seller can't answer these questions, the seller either does not know enough about a trombone to tell you are is hiding bad info. In either case you don't want to buy the horn.Ê Good Luck! David Tew -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu]On Behalf Of Berggren, Erik Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 7:46 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Calling experienced eBayers! Howdy! I'm considering the purchase of an instrument through eBay. For those of you who are experienced at this, would you please explain the process to me? I know the basics of bidding, etc., but the main thing I want to know is, is there always a trial period the winning bidder has with the instrument before he/she turns loose of their $$$, or does that just depend on the individual seller? Erik B. - AAA (Always An Amateur) ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2356 Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:51:12 EDT From: BassBonist@aol.com To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Ziess Brass? Message-ID: <89.165d6fa0.29e6fce0@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_89.165d6fa0.29e6fce0_boundary" << Have any of you ever heard of brass instruments by Karl Ziess? >> Interesting that someone would use a name similar to Carl Zeiss, maker of some of the worlds finest optics, to lend a sound of credibility to the name of the instrument. Like Walter Barrett stated, it's probably made by the same folks who make Cerveny and Amati in the Czech republic. For the price their stuff is "okay" but the main draw is the price, not the quality, fwiw. Matt Varho ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2356 Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 09:58:47 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Ziess Brass? Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020411095444.00b40928@acticalc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 09:23 AM 4/11/2002 -0400, valveless@earthlink.netwrote: Hi everyone, Have any of you ever heard of brass instruments by Karl Ziess? I've found a used bass trumpet for sale at a suspiciously tempting price. I "googled" the manufacturer and came up pretty short. Thanks, Brian Actually, I bought a Zeiss bass trumpet on eBay about a year ago. It isn't terrible, but I wouldn't call it an instrument for the ages either. I have used it in concert. Once I sorted out a good mouthpiece (the shallowest one I could tolerate in order to give the horn a brassy sound compatible with the rest of the trumpets) the blend was OK. But I had to blow like crazy to achieve a balance. If you buy this instrument, I'm afraid we must insist you change your email ID. We can't have any deceptive emails here. :) Cheers, Craig ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2356 Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 14:52:52 From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Calling experienced eBayers! Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I'm considering the purchase of an instrument through eBay. For those of you who are experienced at this, would you please explain the process to me? I know the basics of bidding, etc., but the main thing I want to know is, is there always a trial period the winning bidder has with the instrument before he/she turns loose of their $$$, or does that just depend on the individual seller? Much of whatâs sold on ebay was bought at auctions and resold. They donât know much about the instruments. If the slide moves, itâs ãgoodä. Thereâs usually a return policy, but not always. Getting your money back can take months. Remember that youâre dealing with someone that you donât know and that has no vested interest in establishing a business relationship with you. As such, youâre basically gambling. Thereâs a chance that a good instrument was in the hands of someone that cared for it. One good indicator of that is what mouthpiece comes with the horn (if thatâs bigotry, then I guess Iâm a bigot). But expect to either need to have the instrument serviced or to, at least, spend lots of time, cleaning the slide. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2356 Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 11:26:20 -0500 From: "D.J. Kennedy" To: craig@acticalc.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Ziess Brass? Message-ID: <3CB5B92C.DCE83E99@midwest.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit zee zeiss were made in the happy caves by enlightened proletariat zere are ziess tubas marvells of wonder thunder machiner --fur der lederhosen und poom poom ----- Craig Parmerlee wrote: > At 09:23 AM 4/11/2002 -0400, valveless@earthlink.netwrote: > >Hi everyone, > > > >Have any of you ever heard of brass instruments by Karl Ziess? I've found a > >used bass trumpet for sale at a suspiciously tempting price. I "googled" > >the manufacturer and came up pretty short. > > > >Thanks, > >Brian > > Actually, I bought a Zeiss bass trumpet on eBay about a year ago. It isn't > terrible, but I wouldn't call it an instrument for the ages either. I have > used it in concert. Once I sorted out a good mouthpiece (the shallowest > one I could tolerate in order to give the horn a brassy sound compatible > with the rest of the trumpets) the blend was OK. But I had to blow like > crazy to achieve a balance. > > If you buy this instrument, I'm afraid we must insist you change your email > ID. We can't have any deceptive emails here. :) > > Cheers, > Craig ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2356 Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:10:49 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Calling experienced eBayers! Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020411095957.00b3e308@acticalc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 06:45 AM 4/11/2002 -0600, Berggren, Erik wrote: Howdy! I'm considering the purchase of an instrument through eBay. For those of you who are experienced at this, would you please explain the process to me? I know the basics of bidding, etc., but the main thing I want to know is, is there always a trial period the winning bidder has with the instrument before he/she turns loose of their $$$, or does that just depend on the individual seller? On the contrary, eBay is generally WYSIWYG, let the buyer beware. There are a few sellers, mainly retail stores, that offer approval periods, but most of them will still require full payment before they ship anything. This all means that you must be very careful a) to deal with sellers of proven integrity, and b) to carefully examine the goods and satisfy any questions in advance. eBay helps with the integrity evaluation by proving a feedback rating. You can generally trust this value. Good sellers fight hard to avoid anything but positive feedback. If you see any negatives or neutrals, be careful. Also there are a lot of people selling brass that have no clue about anything musical. They can provide you with complete junk without knowing it. For example, don't trust a sax player who says the slide is really smooth. Some of them think that anything that moves faster than their mouthpiece cork is good enough. One of those jokers sold me a horn that had a slide dent so deep, even the inner slide was dented. There are on occasion some nice bargains and some interesting old instruments on eBay. In many cases you can do just about as well working through a large dealer, so if you have any reservations, don't bid. My 2 cents. Craig ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2356 Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 11:06:35 -0400 From: "Dyke, David" To: "'Trombones and related issues forum.'" Subject: RE: Calling experienced eBayers! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1E16A.78AF4560" As a follow up to my previous message I'd like to include that I have been blessed in nearly all of my purchases on ebay with regards to instruments, from Saxophones to Trombones. I have found, as a reliable benchmark of what condition an instrument might be in, is the condition of the ORIGINAL case. This may not always be theÊsituation but in my humble experience it proved to be a good gauge considering the auction type venue you're working with. I picked up a prewar 2-b liberty: excellent original case, great condition horn.. All it needed was a strip down and re-lacquering to make it pristine in every way. (slide adjustment also of course)..ÊA 1967 Connstelation.. Mint original case... Mint horn right out of the box like an old stock instrument complete with keys, inspection slip and manual.. Maybe others can elaborate on this observation concerning case condition and relative condition of the instrument. ~ dave -----Original Message----- From: Berggren, Erik [mailto:erik.berggren@state.ks.us] Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 8:46 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Calling experienced eBayers! Howdy! I'm considering the purchase of an instrument through eBay. For those of you who are experienced at this, would you please explain the process to me? I know the basics of bidding, etc., but the main thing I want to know is, is there always a trial period the winning bidder has with the instrument before he/she turns loose of their $$$, or does that just depend on the individual seller? Erik B. - AAA (Always An Amateur) ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2356 Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 11:43:14 -0500 From: "D.J. Kennedy" To: daniel_pliskin@hotmail.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Calling experienced eBayers! Message-ID: <3CB5BD22.3C6CD0EB@midwest.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit what item are you considering -if you need help ///second opinion ///bidding tips etc it can be a tough game on the bay !!! Daniel Pliskin wrote: > >I'm considering the purchase of an instrument through eBay. For those of > >you who are experienced at this, would you please explain the process to > >me? > >I know the basics of bidding, etc., but the main thing I want to know is, > >is > >there always a trial period the winning bidder has with the instrument > >before he/she turns loose of their $$$, or does that just depend on the > >individual seller? > > Much of whatâs sold on ebay was bought at auctions and resold. They donât > know much about the instruments. If the slide moves, itâs ãgoodä. > > Thereâs usually a return policy, but not always. Getting your money back > can take months. Remember that youâre dealing with someone that you donât > know and that has no vested interest in establishing a business relationship > with you. As such, youâre basically gambling. > > Thereâs a chance that a good instrument was in the hands of someone that > cared for it. One good indicator of that is what mouthpiece comes with the > horn (if thatâs bigotry, then I guess Iâm a bigot). > > But expect to either need to have the instrument serviced or to, at least, > spend lots of time, cleaning the slide. > > DanP > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2356 Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 09:25:32 -0600 From: "Bill Stanley" To: Subject: RE: Rouse Concerto Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings - Christian Lindberg will be performing the Rouse Concerto this summer with the Aspen Festival Orchestra, July 7. See http://www.aspenmusicfestival.com/template.asp?option=B&sub=4&weekof=3 for more information. Also check out the flipped picture/left handed trombonist. Bill Stanley Associate Professor of Trombone College of Music University of Colorado at Boulder http://spot.colorado.edu/~stanleyw -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu]On Behalf Of Stephen Lange Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 9:40 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Rouse Concerto Hello List! For those in and around the St. Louis area, I thought I would let everyone know that our Principal Trombonist, Timothy Myers, will be performing the Rouse Trombone Concerto on this weekend's subscription concerts. We had our first rehearsal this morning - Tim sounds absolutely incredible! What a neat piece!!!! The rest of the concert is a blast as well - Bernstein-Chichester Psalms and On the Waterfront Symphonic Suite, and Ruggles - Men and Mountains. Lots of trombone stuff... For more information regarding concert times and tickets to the Saint Louis Symphony, please visit www.slso.org For information about Christopher Rouse and the piece please visit his website - here's a direct link: http://www.christopherrouse.com/tbnctopress.html Hope to see some of you there!!! Steve Lange Saint Louis Symphony Orchestra ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2356 Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 16:39:16 +0100 From: "Adrian Drover" To: <8guion@jmls.edu>, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Open Pedal Bb vs. 5th Pos. Inline Double Valved Bb Message-ID: <009b01c1e16f$2e9dfd90$c094fc3e@homel29g9mgyk9> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> > 18-foot pedal? Why, that's practically longer than my whole car! What use is > that? Well, for starters, I can think of: 1. Taking the kids to school. 2. Carrying your trombone to the gig. 3. Collecting your groceries from the supermarket. 4. Getting in the back seat to.... (I won't go into detail on that one). A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2356 Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 11:48:09 -0400 From: Brian French To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Ziess Brass? Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 4/11/02 12:26 PM, D.J. Kennedy at djpens@midwest.net wrote: > zee zeiss were made in the happy caves by enlightened proletariat > zere are ziess tubas marvells of wonder thunder machiner --fur der > lederhosen > und poom poom ----- DJ, Ziess tubas, hast du playedem?????????? ------- Blowin like too many schnitzles und wurst, ja? Bathin' in Warsteiner werks fur dat. --Brian ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2356--