TROMBONE-L Digest 2328 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mpces? by James Scott 2) Re: "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mpces? by "Chuck De Paolo" 3) Do you have GAS? was "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mpces? by "Dale J. Cruse" 4) Re: "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mpces? by Chris Waage 5) Re: Latin by "Bodie Pfost" 6) re: Greenhoe Bar by "Kathy-Green -TJ" 7) Re: "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mpces? by Stephen Troy 8) Re: Do you have GAS? was "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mpces? by Walter Barrett 9) RE: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue & Latin by richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL 10) RE: "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mpces? by richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL 11) RE: Sleep Apnea or video games? by richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL 12) Re: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue by Gary Sloane 13) RE: "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mpces? by Steve Gamble 14) RE: Sleep Apnea or video games? by Gabriel Langfur 15) Chicago Symphony and Christian Lindberg by "Bart Roberts" 16) Re: Latin by "Don Fitzsimons" 17) RE: "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mpces? by Gabriel Langfur 18) ITF2002 Site by "Joshua Brown" 19) Re: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue & Latin by "Fred Hudson" 20) Re: "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mpces? by Michael Shoshani 21) Re: "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mpces? by Michael Shoshani 22) Al Almont (Was Re: "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mpces?) by Chris Waage 23) Re: "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mpces? by "Steve Beck" 24) Prosthesis: "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mpces? by "Aaron Roth" 25) Re: Prosthesis: "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mpces? by "Dr. Carole Nowicke, Applied Health Science" 26) Re: Airway surgery and sleep apnea and playing trombone by "Richard Zemry Johnson" 27) Caution: Jokes you may already have heard (Music 101) by Peter Soukup 28) Re: Airway surgery and sleep apnea and playing trombone by Craig Parmerlee 29) ok I gotta ask!!!! by Bruce Faske 30) Re: ok I gotta ask!!!! by Dave Tall 31) Re: Latin by Larry White 32) Trombone Catholicism by "Tom Izzo" 33) Nothing Further, Please (Re: Latin) by Listmonitor Trombone-L 34) Opera in English. Was: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue & Latin by Roger Hecht 35) RE: "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mpces? by Roger Hecht 36) Re: Trombone Catholicism by "Dr. Carole Nowicke, Applied Health Science" 37) Orangemen? by "Fred Hudson" 38) Newport Jazz 2002 by Bodie Pfost 39) Re: Latin by "Lisa & Patrick Bates" 40) GENERAL QUALIFICATIONS OF AN ORANGEMAN by Earl Needham 41) RE: Prosthesis: "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mp ces? by "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> 42) RE: Prosthesis: "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mp ces? by Chris Waage 43) Re: ok I gotta ask!!!! by "Daniel Pliskin" 44) Re: Opera in English. Was: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue & Latin by "Daniel Pliskin" 45) need to sell Bass Trombone by BITEensemble@aol.com 46) RE: ok I gotta ask!!!! by "Gary Maxwell" ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:00:38 -0700 From: James Scott To: glangfur@yahoo.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mpces? Message-ID: <3C8F93C6.5061530@ucalgary.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'll agree Gabe, that a lot of young players will end up playing on equipment that doesn't work for them just because so&so plays it. I heard a quote (I think from John Stork) that a player should not play the mouthpiece that his/her favorite player plays, but rather the one that most enables them to sound like their favorite player. Knowing what the "stars" play can be helpful as a jumping off point, as long as you are honest enough with yourself to put it away if it doesn't work for you, and find what does work. Jim Scott Gabriel Langfur wrote: > --- Joseph Green wrote: > > > The Lindberg mouthpieces (made by UMI) are also funnel > > shaped. > > Actually, I think that funnel shape on the outside is > deceiving - the inside is quite bowl-shaped if I remember > correctly. > > By the way, has anyone other than Lindberg himself had any > success with those mouthpieces? They're such a bizarre > design, with that wide-open throat and no taper to the > backbore as far as I can tell. I had a student who bought > one a couple of years ago, and just sounded awful on it. I > know one guy who sounds great on the alto mouthpiece, but > other than that... > > Which brings me to another topic. What do y'all think about > the named products for brass players? Some of them - the > Doug Yeo mouthpiece, the Jeff Reynolds mouthpiece, the > Stork lines of trumpet and horn mouthpieces - seem to be > very good, fairly mainstream variations on classic designs. > I like my Reynolds mouthpiece very much, although I would > prefer if it had the maker's name rather than the > endorser's on it - my own opinion. Others, namely (in my > opinion of course) the Lindberg and most of the Alessi > mouthpieces, are extreme designs. They must work well for > those players, or they wouldn't play them, but the majority > of us would have trouble using those pieces in any kind of > normal playing situation. > > And some of them, like the Phil Teele and George Roberts > Marcinciewicz mouthpieces, are NOT what those players play. > > I tend to be wary of those endorsements myself, but I'm > afraid some younger players are swayed by them, thinking > that THIS is what they have to play in order to get to that > level. In particular, I hear younger tenor trombone players > playing mouthpieces that are obviously too big for them to > control with any focus or security in the high register, > and I think Joe Alessi putting his own extreme mouthpiece > out there for public consumption has something to do with > it. "If this is what he's playing, then clearly I should > play the biggest mouthpiece I possibly can." > > I heard Joe live in a masterclass a couple of weeks ago, > and he doesn't sound like he's playing a particularly big > mouthpiece. Clearly he has focus and control of his > equipment. If the younger players who aspire to that level > would LISTEN to him rather than buy a mouthpiece with his > name on it, they'd be much better off. > > End of rant. Am I way off base? > > Gabe > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! > http://mail.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:00:40 -0500 From: "Chuck De Paolo" To: "Trombone List" Subject: Re: "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mpces? Message-ID: <014e01c1cab8$fd444eb0$0200a8c0@ws2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sam siad: > If you want to equal whatever's inside of Michael shorts,.buying > the same brand of underwear ain't gonna do it. A Pearl of Wisdom if there ever was one. Bravo! ---Chuck ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:02:34 -0500 From: "Dale J. Cruse" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Do you have GAS? was "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mpces? Message-ID: <016a01c1cab9$409bfe10$70d92444@union1.nj.home.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT This topic reminds of a term bandied about on a bass newsgroup I belong to. Folks there like to say they "Have G.A.S." - meaning "Gear Acquisition Syndrome." I think all musicians, no matter the instrument, love to buy gear. When that new Woodwind and Brasswind or Giardinelli catalog arrives in the mail, is there one among us who can resist dreaming about some fresh gear - whether we need it or not? When the wallet is open it almost seems as though we just can't get enough gear. If the gear in question is endorsed by a famous player - GREAT! If not - that's okay too! Gear, gear, gear - we can't get enough gear! Some are stricken with the affliction more than others but I think each of us has suffered from G.A.S. at some time or another. Dale J. Cruse dale@dalecruse.com www.dalecruse.com Professional sites for professional people. ----- Original Message ----- From: "sabutin" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 12:38 PM Subject: Re: "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mpces? > Not only is Gabe NOT way off base here...he's absolutely correct. > > Endorsements are money + power driven almost all of the > time...often to the point of pure cycnicism. > > Believe it. > > If you snicker while watching Michael Jordan endorse basketball > shoes or underwear, if you think the idea of Tiger Woods driving a > Buick is as absurd as I do, and then pick up you "Mr. X" horn w/your > "Mr. Y" m'pce and try to play...the laugh's on you, podna. > > I mean...if you've tried everything you can get your hands on and > in blind tests CHOSEN the Mr. Z triple valve alto trombone w/the > solid platinum tuning slide...great. Just don't be surprised when you > put your opera glasses on Mr. Z next time the Best Ever Orchestra > Incorporated comes through your town and find that he's playing an > old Conn alto w/a Mt. Vernon Bach 11C m'pce. > > Happens all the time. > > And while I'm at it...don't necessarily believe that the "Mr. Q" > horn or m'pce you are playing is in ANY way the same as the one HE'S > playing. > > Sometimes yes...Doug Yeo is very careful about these sort of > things, for instance...and sometimes no. Could LOOK the same, but be > 40 years and 20 instrument designers newer. Could be contemporary > w/the horn the hero is playing but his has been so tweaked as to be a > different horn altogether...could be that the manufacturer actually > MEANS well but can't keep up w/the many changes the endorser has made > and continues to make...could be many things... > > Bottom line...only the most extreme blindfold tests will tell you > what's what. > > Buyer beware. > > S. > > P,S, That Hanes commercial w/Michael Jordan is SO true. When he > walks out the door rolling his eyes saying "Well...at least they're > Hanes" or something of the sort...that's the way many endorsers feel > as well. > > If you want to equal whatever's inside of Michael shorts,.buying > the same brand of underwear ain't gonna do it. > > Sorry. > > ================= > > >--- Joseph Green wrote: > > > >> The Lindberg mouthpieces (made by UMI) are also funnel > >> shaped. > > > >Actually, I think that funnel shape on the outside is > >deceiving - the inside is quite bowl-shaped if I remember > >correctly. > > > >By the way, has anyone other than Lindberg himself had any > >success with those mouthpieces? They're such a bizarre > >design, with that wide-open throat and no taper to the > >backbore as far as I can tell. I had a student who bought > >one a couple of years ago, and just sounded awful on it. I > >know one guy who sounds great on the alto mouthpiece, but > >other than that... > > > >Which brings me to another topic. What do y'all think about > >the named products for brass players? Some of them - the > >Doug Yeo mouthpiece, the Jeff Reynolds mouthpiece, the > >Stork lines of trumpet and horn mouthpieces - seem to be > >very good, fairly mainstream variations on classic designs. > >I like my Reynolds mouthpiece very much, although I would > >prefer if it had the maker's name rather than the > >endorser's on it - my own opinion. Others, namely (in my > >opinion of course) the Lindberg and most of the Alessi > >mouthpieces, are extreme designs. They must work well for > >those players, or they wouldn't play them, but the majority > >of us would have trouble using those pieces in any kind of > >normal playing situation. > > > >And some of them, like the Phil Teele and George Roberts > >Marcinciewicz mouthpieces, are NOT what those players play. > > > >I tend to be wary of those endorsements myself, but I'm > >afraid some younger players are swayed by them, thinking > >that THIS is what they have to play in order to get to that > >level. In particular, I hear younger tenor trombone players > >playing mouthpieces that are obviously too big for them to > >control with any focus or security in the high register, > >and I think Joe Alessi putting his own extreme mouthpiece > >out there for public consumption has something to do with > >it. "If this is what he's playing, then clearly I should > >play the biggest mouthpiece I possibly can." > > > >I heard Joe live in a masterclass a couple of weeks ago, > >and he doesn't sound like he's playing a particularly big > >mouthpiece. Clearly he has focus and control of his > >equipment. If the younger players who aspire to that level > >would LISTEN to him rather than buy a mouthpiece with his > >name on it, they'd be much better off. > > > >End of rant. Am I way off base? > > > >Gabe ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:04:00 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: Re: "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mpces? Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" There's a never ending thread on alt.music.trombone about "what instrument/mouthpiece/etc. so-and-so plays." It's humorous to the point of being sad in many ways, because people buy things based on what their favorite celebs play. Maturity, however, is nature's way of saying, "Get over it." Buying an Edwards tenor matching the specs of Joe Alessi's instrument and using a Greg Black Alessi 1 isn't going to make you sound like Joe Alessi any more than buying a tuxedo makes you into an orchestral musician. It's talent plus practice plus training plus practice plus listening plus practice plus enthusiasm plus practice plus practice, with more practice thrown in for good measure. Equipment is only a tool, nothing more, nothing less. Could you imagine someone going into Home Depot to buy a hammer . . . "Hmmmmm. . . Norm Abrams uses Stanley hammers . . . hmmm . . . I really want to build that chiffarobe he made on his show last week, so I'd better get a Stanley hammer. When I had my Mouthpiece Exchange website up and running, I was amazed at the number of Alessi and Lindberg mouthpieces that came through. I seldom had any of the Yamaha Yeo or Trudel models, Jeff Reynolds or Marcellus mouthpieces. Why? Because these are all fairly standard mouthpieces, with just a few minor tweeks to improve on the basic design. Chris Not only is Gabe NOT way off base here...he's absolutely correct. Endorsements are money + power driven almost all of the time...often to the point of pure cycnicism. Believe it. If you snicker while watching Michael Jordan endorse basketball shoes or underwear, if you think the idea of Tiger Woods driving a Buick is as absurd as I do, and then pick up you "Mr. X" horn w/your "Mr. Y" m'pce and try to play...the laugh's on you, podna. I mean...if you've tried everything you can get your hands on and in blind tests CHOSEN the Mr. Z triple valve alto trombone w/the solid platinum tuning slide...great. Just don't be surprised when you put your opera glasses on Mr. Z next time the Best Ever Orchestra Incorporated comes through your town and find that he's playing an old Conn alto w/a Mt. Vernon Bach 11C m'pce. Happens all the time. And while I'm at it...don't necessarily believe that the "Mr. Q" horn or m'pce you are playing is in ANY way the same as the one HE'S playing. Sometimes yes...Doug Yeo is very careful about these sort of things, for instance...and sometimes no. Could LOOK the same, but be 40 years and 20 instrument designers newer. Could be contemporary w/the horn the hero is playing but his has been so tweaked as to be a different horn altogether...could be that the manufacturer actually MEANS well but can't keep up w/the many changes the endorser has made and continues to make...could be many things... Bottom line...only the most extreme blindfold tests will tell you what's what. Buyer beware. S. P,S, That Hanes commercial w/Michael Jordan is SO true. When he walks out the door rolling his eyes saying "Well...at least they're Hanes" or something of the sort...that's the way many endorsers feel as well. If you want to equal whatever's inside of Michael shorts,.buying the same brand of underwear ain't gonna do it. Sorry. ================= --- Joseph Green wrote: The Lindberg mouthpieces (made by UMI) are also funnel shaped. Actually, I think that funnel shape on the outside is deceiving - the inside is quite bowl-shaped if I remember correctly. By the way, has anyone other than Lindberg himself had any success with those mouthpieces? They're such a bizarre design, with that wide-open throat and no taper to the backbore as far as I can tell. I had a student who bought one a couple of years ago, and just sounded awful on it. I know one guy who sounds great on the alto mouthpiece, but other than that... Which brings me to another topic. What do y'all think about the named products for brass players? Some of them - the Doug Yeo mouthpiece, the Jeff Reynolds mouthpiece, the Stork lines of trumpet and horn mouthpieces - seem to be very good, fairly mainstream variations on classic designs. I like my Reynolds mouthpiece very much, although I would prefer if it had the maker's name rather than the endorser's on it - my own opinion. Others, namely (in my opinion of course) the Lindberg and most of the Alessi mouthpieces, are extreme designs. They must work well for those players, or they wouldn't play them, but the majority of us would have trouble using those pieces in any kind of normal playing situation. And some of them, like the Phil Teele and George Roberts Marcinciewicz mouthpieces, are NOT what those players play. I tend to be wary of those endorsements myself, but I'm afraid some younger players are swayed by them, thinking that THIS is what they have to play in order to get to that level. In particular, I hear younger tenor trombone players playing mouthpieces that are obviously too big for them to control with any focus or security in the high register, and I think Joe Alessi putting his own extreme mouthpiece out there for public consumption has something to do with it. "If this is what he's playing, then clearly I should play the biggest mouthpiece I possibly can." I heard Joe live in a masterclass a couple of weeks ago, and he doesn't sound like he's playing a particularly big mouthpiece. Clearly he has focus and control of his equipment. If the younger players who aspire to that level would LISTEN to him rather than buy a mouthpiece with his name on it, they'd be much better off. End of rant. Am I way off base? Gabe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ -- ________________________________________________ Chris Waage, Associate Webmaster chris@trombone.org http://www.trombone.org - A web site for trombonists ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:27:47 -0800 From: "Bodie Pfost" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Latin Message-ID: <3c8f9a23.1e56.0@humboldt1.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A dead language for a dead religion??? Bodie Pfost >From: Adrian Drover > >> Hey wait a minute. Do they not speak/pray in Latin in Roman Catholic >> church? Is that not a speech community? > >Not in any catholic church around here that I've been in lately, but then >again I'm not catholic! > >Patrick Bates ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:07:47 -0800 From: "Kathy-Green -TJ" To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: re: Greenhoe Bar Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit trombone-l@po.missouri.edu writes: >There's no hurry to attach the bar permanently. And do you use the Doug >Yeo >grip with the forefinger or the middle finger straddling the handslide >bar ? >I find that separating the middle and ring finger hurts but the >forefinger-middle finger separation gives extra support. I had to cut a >hole in my case to accomodate the "thumb." Yes, I'm using that grip now. It doesn't hurt me at all now with the Greenhoe bar, and I think I'll be sticking with it. I know I will have to cut a hole in the case, but I just got my Tuxedo Bag repaired and I'll be using that most of the time cause it's lighter. Thanks, Kathy Kathy Green, Band Director Thomas Jefferson High School "Iâve never known a musician who regretted being one. Whatever deceptions life may have in store for you, music itself is not going to let you down." Virgil Thomson ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:33:29 -0500 From: Stephen Troy To: Subject: Re: "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mpces? Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020313133329.0095c530@pop.erols.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:04 PM 3/13/2002 -0600, Chris Waage wrote: >Buying an Edwards tenor matching the specs of Joe Alessi's instrument >and using a Greg Black Alessi 1 isn't going to make you sound like >Joe Alessi any more than buying a tuxedo makes you into an orchestral >musician. Damn. Anyone want to buy a slightly used tuxedo? Steve Troy p.s. - Norm Abram (no "s") ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:40:50 -0500 From: Walter Barrett To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Cc: Subject: Re: Do you have GAS? was "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mpces? Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 3/13/02 1:02 PM, Dale J. Cruse expounded thusly... > Gear, gear, gear - > we can't get enough gear! Some are stricken with the affliction more than > others but > I think each of us has suffered from G.A.S. at some time or another. > > Dale J. Cruse Dale- I also suffer from G.A.S. However, I manage to deal with it by remembering that I also suffer with F.A.R.T. (Finances Are Real Thin) and B.R.I.D.E (Be Realistic, It Doesn't Exist) -- Walter Barrett "Bless me Father, for I have sinned!...Covet, Father, heavy on the covet!" -George Carlin Yamaha Artist/Clinician Tenor, Alto, Bass Trombones Euphonium Bass Trumpet Tuba ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:39:32 -0500 From: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL To: fmhudson@arkansas.net, mail@gothicway.fsnet.co.uk, trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue & Latin Message-ID: <81F62454EA21B94EA95517180D7303730243F8F7@lee-is-102.lee.army.mil> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1CABE.6ADB2BB0" Yes, I frequently sing in Latin with an Episcopal choir. Why, I'm not sure; there is not a single person listening who can understand the words, so how it enhances the worship experience is problematic. (but then, how many people really understand what "meet, right, and salutary" refer to anyway?)Ê But get this: we sing "Church" Latin. This is not a Latin which would be spoken by a modern Roman, or maybe even an ancient one. For example, it is Glawria, it is Dehh-awh, etc. By that definition it is clearly dead - there is no speech community anywhere anytime that uses it.Ê Why do we do it? 1) Because people think if it is old it is better 2) Because people are too stubborn and arrogant to change the way they like things. 3) Because like the Emperor's new clothes, people without much understanding think it must be correct.Ê Now let me quote the poster's last sentence: "Without crisp consonants nobody can understand a word you are singing no matter what the language." Well, that was my original complaint, I've taken some flack on that one though. (and original versus English for opera is not a choice of cuts of meat - it is a choice of tofu bar vs steak - I think you know which I prefer) -----Original Message----- From: Fred Hudson [mailto:fmhudson@arkansas.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 11:12 AM To: mail@gothicway.fsnet.co.uk; Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Re: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue Latin is not dead - It's only sleeping! As the "Mother Tongue" of Italian, French, Spanish, Romanian and, YES!, 2/3 of the English vocabulary Latin lives on in various degrees of corruption. Just this past Sunday I sang with our Community Choral Society in a performanceof Faure's "Requiem". The books had both the "Original Latin Text" and a translated English text. The score had changes in rythm and in some cases added notes to accomodate the English, which was sometimes confusing as we were singing the Latin version. I believe the "Latin" was actually Italian! At least we used Italian phonetics as they are easier to sing. (Latin C = K, V = W, Italian C = Ch, V = V); and the choral director insisted on crisp consonants as she would have done if we were singing in English, udnerscoring the point made up front in this thread. Without crisp consonants nobody can understand a word you are singing no matter what the language. I won't get into the discussion over "Original vs. English" for opera - that's like arguing over which is the best cut of meat. Ave Caesar! Fred Hudson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Marr" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 6:51 AM Subject: Re: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue > Actually folks, not since the second Vatican council in 1963 has the > Catholic service been in Latin, although there are still various > conservatives who continue in defiance of the Pope's ruling. > > How do I know these things when my Grandad was an Orangeman?! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lisa & Patrick Bates" > To: "Trombones and related issues forum." > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 12:26 PM > Subject: Re: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue > > > > > > > > From: Adrian Drover > > > > > Hey wait a minute. Do they not speak/pray in Latin in Roman Catholic > > > church? Is that not a speech community? > > > > Not in any catholic church around here that I've been in lately, but then > > again I'm not catholic! > > > > Patrick Bates > > > > > > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:49:17 -0500 From: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: RE: "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mpces? Message-ID: <81F62454EA21B94EA95517180D7303730243F8F8@lee-is-102.lee.army.mil> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1CABF.C76C1C80" Yes.Ê And another element may enter. There are hundreds of golf gadgets out there to fix your swing, and hundreds of thousands of swing "tips" to do the same thing. They have one thing in common - they are all dedicated to curing one particular fault that you may or may not have. Because so few people have any knowledge of the fundamentals, they fall for these over and over.Ê The same is true for specialized equipment endorsed by the pros of any sport/craft. It may work for them because of some ideosyncracy of the way they do what they do - it may have no relation to the way I do it.Ê So even if you really do get the exact mouthpiece Horatio Highrange uses, narrow with a deep funnel shaped cut to let him fit his prosthesis into, it may not do anything for your wide flat mouth, etc.Ê -----Original Message----- From: sabutin [mailto:sabutin@mindspring.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 12:39 PM To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mpces? Not only is Gabe NOT way off base here...he's absolutely correct. Endorsements are money + power driven almost all of the time...often to the point of pure cycnicism. Believe it. If you snicker while watching Michael Jordan endorse basketball shoes or underwear, if you think the idea of Tiger Woods driving a Buick is as absurd as I do, and then pick up you "Mr. X" horn w/your "Mr. Y" m'pce and try to play...the laugh's on you, podna. I mean...if you've tried everything you can get your hands on and in blind tests CHOSEN the Mr. Z triple valve alto trombone w/the solid platinum tuning slide...great. Just don't be surprised when you put your opera glasses on Mr. Z next time the Best Ever Orchestra Incorporated comes through your town and find that he's playing an old Conn alto w/a Mt. Vernon Bach 11C m'pce. Happens all the time. And while I'm at it...don't necessarily believe that the "Mr. Q" horn or m'pce you are playing is in ANY way the same as the one HE'S playing. Sometimes yes...Doug Yeo is very careful about these sort of things, for instance...and sometimes no. Could LOOK the same, but be 40 years and 20 instrument designers newer. Could be contemporary w/the horn the hero is playing but his has been so tweaked as to be a different horn altogether...could be that the manufacturer actually MEANS well but can't keep up w/the many changes the endorser has made and continues to make...could be many things... Bottom line...only the most extreme blindfold tests will tell you what's what. Buyer beware. S. P,S, That Hanes commercial w/Michael Jordan is SO true. When he walks out the door rolling his eyes saying "Well...at least they're Hanes" or something of the sort...that's the way many endorsers feel as well. If you want to equal whatever's inside of Michael shorts,.buying the same brand of underwear ain't gonna do it. Sorry. ================= >--- Joseph Green wrote: > >> The Lindberg mouthpieces (made by UMI) are also funnel >> shaped. > >Actually, I think that funnel shape on the outside is >deceiving - the inside is quite bowl-shaped if I remember >correctly. > >By the way, has anyone other than Lindberg himself had any >success with those mouthpieces? They're such a bizarre >design, with that wide-open throat and no taper to the >backbore as far as I can tell. I had a student who bought >one a couple of years ago, and just sounded awful on it. I >know one guy who sounds great on the alto mouthpiece, but >other than that... > >Which brings me to another topic. What do y'all think about >the named products for brass players? Some of them - the >Doug Yeo mouthpiece, the Jeff Reynolds mouthpiece, the >Stork lines of trumpet and horn mouthpieces - seem to be >very good, fairly mainstream variations on classic designs. >I like my Reynolds mouthpiece very much, although I would >prefer if it had the maker's name rather than the >endorser's on it - my own opinion. Others, namely (in my >opinion of course) the Lindberg and most of the Alessi >mouthpieces, are extreme designs. They must work well for >those players, or they wouldn't play them, but the majority >of us would have trouble using those pieces in any kind of >normal playing situation. > >And some of them, like the Phil Teele and George Roberts >Marcinciewicz mouthpieces, are NOT what those players play. > >I tend to be wary of those endorsements myself, but I'm >afraid some younger players are swayed by them, thinking >that THIS is what they have to play in order to get to that >level. In particular, I hear younger tenor trombone players >playing mouthpieces that are obviously too big for them to >control with any focus or security in the high register, >and I think Joe Alessi putting his own extreme mouthpiece >out there for public consumption has something to do with >it. "If this is what he's playing, then clearly I should >play the biggest mouthpiece I possibly can." > >I heard Joe live in a masterclass a couple of weeks ago, >and he doesn't sound like he's playing a particularly big >mouthpiece. Clearly he has focus and control of his >equipment. If the younger players who aspire to that level >would LISTEN to him rather than buy a mouthpiece with his >name on it, they'd be much better off. > >End of rant. Am I way off base? > >Gabe > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! >http://mail.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:00:57 -0500 From: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL To: craig@acticalc.com, trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Sleep Apnea or video games? Message-ID: <81F62454EA21B94EA95517180D7303730243F8F9@lee-is-102.lee.army.mil> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1CAC1.68AECE70" Schools are the whipping boys for everybody. The amount of control they actually have is close to zero. I get tired of hearing people blame the schools for all of society's ills. The teachers and staff at the school my kids go to work their butts off to do a good job. They don't get to choose the curriculum, they don't have any real choice in discipline methods, they can't select their students (my fifth grader is the only child in her class with two parents - but if the rest of the kids don't pass the SOL's it is 100% the schools fault and they will lose their accreditation and what little funds they have); they don't have enough buses or bus drivers so my kids are on the bus longer than they should be and are tired. But blame the schools? Don't hold a person accountable for something they have no control over. I hear this every day from politicians running for office. "We're going to hold our schools accountable! They're going to improve or we'll punish them!" Are you going to add any resources, or work on any of the root causes for the performance? Nope, that's not our problem. This is shameful dishonesty.Ê Sorry for the rant, but it's not right. You want better schools? Pay more taxes. Can't do that in my area, nobody has jobs, oops. You want better hours? You go to the PTA meetings, right? Serve as an officer? Get a real look at how hard it is to actually implement your bright ideas?Ê Hey, who snatches your child out of bed while he/she is still tired, at that "unGodly" hour? Well, one possibility is the parent who didn't put him to bed on time the night before! -----Original Message----- From: Craig Parmerlee [mailto:craig@acticalc.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 2:52 PM To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Sleep Apnea or video games? At 10:31 AM 3/12/2002 -0800, Kathy-Green -TJ wrote: >I teach psychology as well as band, and I do a lot of reading about >current research. One of the newest discoveries is that many children who >are diagnosed as ADD/ADHD actually have sleep apnea. I always wonder how many of these fancy medical terms are just mumbo jumbo for something a lot simpler, like getting a good night's sleep and not staying up until 1AM playing video games. There was an interesting study done in one of the San Diego school systems. The system was short of facilities so they put their students on 2 shifts. The regular shift started at the God forsaken hour of 6:45 or something equally asinine, like 90% of the school systems do. The other shift started at 10AM. Is anybody surprised that the later kids outperformed the early risers by a very significant margin? I'll never understand why the schools insist on sticking to such a schedule that snatches kids out of a deep sleep to have them comatose through their first 4 periods, then dumps them at home at 2:20, often without supervision. I don't have to be an internationally famous researcher to know that is bound to get lousy results. If they had a phys ed period in the morning, maybe that would wake them up, but we don't do phys ed anymore. How come these early schedules are so common? Is it the teacher's union lobbying for that or is it just some industry-wide group-think? Craig ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:05:29 -0800 From: Gary Sloane To: "Fred Hudson" Cc: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Not to put too fine a point on this discussion, BUT...Classical Latin, the language of the Roman Empire, has gone to meet its maker. It is a dead language. It is no more. It is not, like the Norwegian Blue Parrot, pining for the fjords. There is no extant community of humans that uses it as the language of daily life, commerce, etc. (Ancient Greek is dead, too, as are Chaldean, Old Church Slavonic, and Sanskrit, although you can take a course in any of them if you enroll at the right university.) So-called Church Latin is not the same as Classical Latin -- not in vocabulary, pronunciation, or in some other aspects of style and usage, I've been told. If you ever had to read Beowulf in Early West Saxon or Chaucer in Middle English, think of the difference in *those* dead languages over time. Church Latin may be spoken in certain monasteries, and there must be other people who can understand it, but it does not meet the test of being the language of ordinary life in any identifiable community or locale. If you want to *speak* Old English, then you have to go to Iceland and listen very carefully, or else hang out at philologists' conventions. Hebrew was a dead language until it was revived by the Zionist movement in the 19th century, but the result, modern Hebrew, is about as close to ancient Hebrew as modern French is to classical Latin. There are lots of people who can read the ancient texts, or, like me, mumble a few prayers when necessary, but there is no community in which ancient Hebrew is used in daily commerce, etc. Is Yiddish a dead language? Probably, although there is a very small universe of Lubavitchers, diamond dealers, and a few others, who actually speak it on a regular basis, but it is questionable whether it will still be a living language in, say, 50 years. (I'm aware that there's controversy about this, and a small revivalist movement.) Sorry: Too many tangents and I *have* put too fine a point on it, after all. Latin is not dead - It's only sleeping! As the "Mother Tongue" of Italian, French, Spanish, Romanian and, YES!, 2/3 of the English vocabulary Latin lives on in various degrees of corruption. I'd say it's dead but still has descendents. Just this past Sunday I sang with our Community Choral Society in a performanceof Faure's "Requiem". The books had both the "Original Latin Text" and a translated English text. The score had changes in rythm and in some cases added notes to accomodate the English, which was sometimes confusing as we were singing the Latin version. I believe the "Latin" was actually Italian! At least we used Italian phonetics as they are easier to sing. (Latin C = K, V = W, Italian C = Ch, V = V); and the choral director insisted on crisp consonants as she would have done if we were singing in English, udnerscoring the point made up front in this thread. Without crisp consonants nobody can understand a word you are singing no matter what the language. I won't get into the discussion over "Original vs. English" for opera - that's like arguing over which is the best cut of meat. Ave Caesar! Fred Hudson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Marr" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 6:51 AM Subject: Re: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue > Actually folks, not since the second Vatican council in 1963 has the > Catholic service been in Latin, although there are still various > conservatives who continue in defiance of the Pope's ruling. > > How do I know these things when my Grandad was an Orangeman?! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lisa & Patrick Bates" > To: "Trombones and related issues forum." > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 12:26 PM > Subject: Re: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue > > > > > > > > From: Adrian Drover > > > > > Hey wait a minute. Do they not speak/pray in Latin in Roman Catholic > > > church? Is that not a speech community? > > > > Not in any catholic church around here that I've been in lately, but then > > again I'm not catholic! > > > > Patrick Bates > > > > > > > Mandatory trombone content: Ralph Ellison has a lot to say about "God's Trombone" in Juneteenth, where he imagines judgment day accompanied by a heavenly trombone choir. Personally, my Bb shofar doesn't slot very well. -- Gary Sloane sloane@batnet.com Nil significat nisi oscillat ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:11:42 -0700 From: Steve Gamble To: "'glangfur@yahoo.com'" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mpces? Message-ID: <01C1CA88.3E5056A0.sgamble@tucsonsymphony.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gabe, I'm not sure where to begin. Your post brings up some old thoughts of mine, mostly negative. This thing about "celebrity" is a big problem, part of one of the biggest problems that kids have: becoming expressive. Artists have authority. That's part of my definition of art. Kids generally are lacking in authority, in their own minds, and are always asking for "permission" from their teacher or band director or, especially, some big name before they will go ahead and play what they are capable of; something they could do on their own if they just decided to. Marketing of all kinds plays on this type of insecurity. To me, it's a bit more offensive in the context of artistic expression. What makes it even more complex is that quite often kids will project their insecurity into their environment so that after a while they stop being influenced by experienced people who they happen to see regularly. Let me illustrate from ancient history. When I lived in Chicago, I made my living playing in a brass quintet. In Chicago, we were relatively anonymous, hustling gigs along with many other fine players. When we did clinics in local schools, we were consistently received with less enthusiasm than we were when out on the road doing concerts and clinics. Same level of students, different location. What made the difference? The students' perception of us. Something that they had total control over. On the road we were big stars and the students would hang on every word and perform way above their normal level. After a few times of hearing the local teacher say something like "I've told him that dozens of times with no results," we made sure to ask at the next town what the teacher would like us to sneak in to the discussion. Again, the only difference (usually) was that the students just decided to pay attention. This contrast of perceptions happened hundreds of times, very predictably. It was kind of discouraging, really. The more hype that preceded us, the better we did. How unfortunate. It just reinforces their need for permission to excel. Art is making decisions. What chance have they to learn that in this celebrity driven atmosphere? Somehow this makes the idea that "if I can do it, you can, too" quite unbelievable. That's how I see it. Steve Gamble Librarian Tucson Symphony Orchestra 2175 N. 6th Ave. Tucson, AZ 85705 (520) 792-9155 x118 (520) 792-9314 fax sgamble@tucsonsymphony.org -----Original Message----- From: Gabriel Langfur [SMTP:glangfur@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 9:48 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mpces? --- Joseph Green wrote: > The Lindberg mouthpieces (made by UMI) are also funnel > shaped. Actually, I think that funnel shape on the outside is deceiving - the inside is quite bowl-shaped if I remember correctly. By the way, has anyone other than Lindberg himself had any success with those mouthpieces? They're such a bizarre design, with that wide-open throat and no taper to the backbore as far as I can tell. I had a student who bought one a couple of years ago, and just sounded awful on it. I know one guy who sounds great on the alto mouthpiece, but other than that... Which brings me to another topic. What do y'all think about the named products for brass players? Some of them - the Doug Yeo mouthpiece, the Jeff Reynolds mouthpiece, the Stork lines of trumpet and horn mouthpieces - seem to be very good, fairly mainstream variations on classic designs. I like my Reynolds mouthpiece very much, although I would prefer if it had the maker's name rather than the endorser's on it - my own opinion. Others, namely (in my opinion of course) the Lindberg and most of the Alessi mouthpieces, are extreme designs. They must work well for those players, or they wouldn't play them, but the majority of us would have trouble using those pieces in any kind of normal playing situation. And some of them, like the Phil Teele and George Roberts Marcinciewicz mouthpieces, are NOT what those players play. I tend to be wary of those endorsements myself, but I'm afraid some younger players are swayed by them, thinking that THIS is what they have to play in order to get to that level. In particular, I hear younger tenor trombone players playing mouthpieces that are obviously too big for them to control with any focus or security in the high register, and I think Joe Alessi putting his own extreme mouthpiece out there for public consumption has something to do with it. "If this is what he's playing, then clearly I should play the biggest mouthpiece I possibly can." I heard Joe live in a masterclass a couple of weeks ago, and he doesn't sound like he's playing a particularly big mouthpiece. Clearly he has focus and control of his equipment. If the younger players who aspire to that level would LISTEN to him rather than buy a mouthpiece with his name on it, they'd be much better off. End of rant. Am I way off base? Gabe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:44:35 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Sleep Apnea or video games? Message-ID: <20020313194435.92391.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL wrote: > Schools are the whipping boys for everybody. The amount > of control they > actually have is close to zero. I get tired of hearing > people blame the > schools for all of society's ills. etc. Wow! A political opinion I actually agree with! I'm not sure it has any relation to Craig's original post, but well said! I guess we should probably get back to the trombone... Not the list monitor, Gabe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:51:49 -0800 From: "Bart Roberts" To: "Trombone List" Subject: Chicago Symphony and Christian Lindberg Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, I just wanted to write and share that I went to the CSO Concert last night and thoroughly enjoyed the entire program. The Berio work is very interesting and quite an amazing piece. He played the hell out of it. I was so impressed watching him play and the balance. Lots of praise goes out to Jay Friedman who played a very important role in the whole work. What a piece. The encore was also really cool. The other two numbers also were very impressive pieces. The program was as follows. Le Corsaire Overture Berlioz Solo Berio Symphony No. 1 Sibelieus Quite a night. It's motivational material for me. Now back to those long tones......... Bart Roberts ______________ Bart Roberts Graduate Assistant Band/Trombone School of Music Ball State University Muncie, Indiana http://www.bsu.edu/cfa/music/bands ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:53:08 -0500 From: "Don Fitzsimons" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Latin Message-ID: <004101c1cac8$b3dd9dc0$d345d03f@fitzsimons> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Drover" | > Definition of dead language - "A language, such as Latin, that is no | > longer learned as a native language by a speech community." | > http://www.dictionary.com | > | > Latin is a dead language. | Hey wait a minute. Do they not speak/pray in Latin in Roman Catholic | church? Is that not a speech community? You are correct: The Latin mass was ended years ago. Of course, some congregations might persist in giving a Latin mass by demand. Nevertheless, Latin was a *native* language of a region of central Italy which included Rome from ancient times. By the 3d. century B.C., there was the marked division of the language into the classical form and the vulgar form. The vulgar, or spoken form, was the most widespread form and it became the native language of many born under the wide territories of the Roman Empire. From the vulgar form came many of the romance languages. By the middle of the 1st. century A.D., classical latin was in decline. After the 2d. century, only people whose offices required Latin as a standard used it. (The church, record keepers, etc.) fitz ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:59:52 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mpces? Message-ID: <20020313195952.94160.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Steve Gamble wrote: > It just reinforces > their need for > permission to excel. Art is making decisions. What > chance have they to > learn that in this celebrity driven atmosphere? Somehow > this makes the > idea that "if I can do it, you can, too" quite > unbelievable. That's how I > see it. > > Wow Steve, deep stuff. I've had similar experiences when touring with chamber groups. Imagine a trombone quartet of college students signing autographs! It happened in Southeast Alaska... Tangentially, I find the most inspiring aspect of going to masterclasses with great players is not the fact that they can do the things they can do on the instrument, but that they often don't get the most astounding things out of the horn the first time - I'm thinking specifically of Charlie Vernon, who can do things on the bass trombone that are just ridiculous. When he gets into a masterclass/demo situation, he'll try to do the most extreme things with range or whatever, and pretty often it takes him a couple of tries to get them out of the horn in a way that satisfies him. THAT inspires me to go try it much more than if it all seemed perfectly easy for him. Even Joe Alessi, in front of a room full of students, will demonstrate his Bordogni etude routine of playing in several different transpositions, and the lowest ones don't necessarily sound fantastic. The point is that it's valuable to do it, even if it doesn't sound that great the first time - and that ALL OF US are human and working to improve ourselves. It takes courage to do that - to go out and demonstrate that there are things you can't do perfectly, but that you work on and recommend others do the same. Gabe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:09:42 -0600 From: "Joshua Brown" To: "Trombone L" Subject: ITF2002 Site Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0000_01C1CA98.B89B74C0" Hello List, I just launched the ITF2002 website: http://www.ita-web.org/festival/ Let me know if you have any questions or comments. Take care, Josh http://www.ita-web.org/ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:02:28 -0600 From: "Fred Hudson" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue & Latin Message-ID: <002801c1cad2$63ba9640$331298d8@s0024172501> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0025_01C1CAA0.17967900" Well now Richard you have succeeded in drawing me into the discussion I promised to avoid! My "cuts of steak" analogy was intended to refer to those who appreciate vocal renditions as "instrumental" music vs. those who would rather be able to grasp the full picture. I agree that, unfortunately, a majority of the "purists" fall into the category of those who "see" the emporers new clothes. This is the same crowd that deplores Tchaikovsky because "people can whistle his tunes". Personally I first found that I could enjoy opera when in college I played in the pit orchestra for the Charlotte (NC) Opera Association which did everything in English. The longest four hours of my life were spent in the Wagner Opera House in Bayreuth during a performance of "Die Meistersinger" naturally in German as were the program notes and scenario. Talk about your Tofu Bar.......... Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 12:39 PM Subject: RE: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue & Latin Yes, I frequently sing in Latin with an Episcopal choir. Why, I'm not sure; there is not a single person listening who can understand the words, so how it enhances the worship experience is problematic. (but then, how many people really understand what "meet, right, and salutary" refer to anyway?)Ê But get this: we sing "Church" Latin. This is not a Latin which would be spoken by a modern Roman, or maybe even an ancient one. For example, it is Glawria, it is Dehh-awh, etc. By that definition it is clearly dead - there is no speech community anywhere anytime that uses it.Ê Why do we do it? 1) Because people think if it is old it is better 2) Because people are too stubborn and arrogant to change the way they like things. 3) Because like the Emperor's new clothes, people without much understanding think it must be correct.Ê Now let me quote the poster's last sentence: "Without crisp consonants nobody can understand a word you are singing no matter what the language." Well, that was my original complaint, I've taken some flack on that one though. (and original versus English for opera is not a choice of cuts of meat - it is a choice of tofu bar vs steak - I think you know which I prefer) -----Original Message----- From: Fred Hudson [mailto:fmhudson@arkansas.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 11:12 AM To: mail@gothicway.fsnet.co.uk; Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Re: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue Latin is not dead - It's only sleeping! As the "Mother Tongue" of Italian, French, Spanish, Romanian and, YES!, 2/3 of the English vocabulary Latin lives on in various degrees of corruption. Just this past Sunday I sang with our Community Choral Society in a performanceof Faure's "Requiem". The books had both the "Original Latin Text" and a translated English text. The score had changes in rythm and in some cases added notes to accomodate the English, which was sometimes confusing as we were singing the Latin version. I believe the "Latin" was actually Italian! At least we used Italian phonetics as they are easier to sing. (Latin C = K, V = W, Italian C = Ch, V = V); and the choral director insisted on crisp consonants as she would have done if we were singing in English, udnerscoring the point made up front in this thread. Without crisp consonants nobody can understand a word you are singing no matter what the language. I won't get into the discussion over "Original vs. English" for opera - that's like arguing over which is the best cut of meat. Ave Caesar! Fred Hudson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Marr" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 6:51 AM Subject: Re: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue > Actually folks, not since the second Vatican council in 1963 has the > Catholic service been in Latin, although there are still various > conservatives who continue in defiance of the Pope's ruling. > > How do I know these things when my Grandad was an Orangeman?! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lisa & Patrick Bates" > To: "Trombones and related issues forum." > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 12:26 PM > Subject: Re: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue > > > > > > > > From: Adrian Drover > > > > > Hey wait a minute. Do they not speak/pray in Latin in Roman Catholic > > > church? Is that not a speech community? > > > > Not in any catholic church around here that I've been in lately, but then > > again I'm not catholic! > > > > Patrick Bates > > > > > > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:53:15 -0600 From: Michael Shoshani To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mpces? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit We've secretly replaced Gabriel Langfur 's message with Folger's Crystals. Let's see if anyone notices: >By the way, has anyone other than Lindberg himself had any >success with those mouthpieces? They're such a bizarre >design, with that wide-open throat and no taper to the >backbore as far as I can tell. I had a student who bought >one a couple of years ago, and just sounded awful on it. I >know one guy who sounds great on the alto mouthpiece, but >other than that... I have the alto mouthpiece and think it rocks. Haven't tried the other CL mouthpieces, but I slipped a 15 into my King 2-B and have a better sound and greater flexibility than with any of my other pieces. Those run the gamut: Bach 12C *and* 19; Schilke 42B *and* 47; and the famous King M21, of which I have three. The M21 is funnel shaped, and the 15CL sure looks funnel-shaped in the bowl, but the difference to me is the rim. The CL mouthpiece has a minimal rim, which makes tone production easier and much more flexible for me. The M21, by contrast, has a rim that's like putting on steel-toe boots for a ballet. Michael Shoshani Chicago IL ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:14:17 -0600 From: Michael Shoshani To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mpces? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit We've secretly replaced Chris Waage 's message with Folger's Crystals. Let's see if anyone notices: >When I had my Mouthpiece Exchange website up and running, I was >amazed at the number of Alessi and Lindberg mouthpieces that came >through. I seldom had any of the Yamaha Yeo or Trudel models, Jeff >Reynolds or Marcellus mouthpieces. Why? Because these are all >fairly standard mouthpieces, with just a few minor tweeks to improve >on the basic design. Interesting. I picked up a Lindberg 15CL for my King 2-B because of its size, and its price. ($30, OTJ Classifieds, thanks Chris :) ). But if there were a Mouthpiece Exchange today I would be looking for something like an Almont. Not a mouthpiece designed by (or named for) a particular player, but one that was made by a mouthpiece maker, and just happened to have some popularity with players. Michael Shoshani Chicago ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:25:42 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: Al Almont (Was Re: "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mpces?) Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" There are several players out there looking for Al Almont mouthpieces. I don't know much history of these - anyone have any light to shed on it? Chris We've secretly replaced Chris Waage 's message with Folger's Crystals. Let's see if anyone notices: When I had my Mouthpiece Exchange website up and running, I was amazed at the number of Alessi and Lindberg mouthpieces that came through. I seldom had any of the Yamaha Yeo or Trudel models, Jeff Reynolds or Marcellus mouthpieces. Why? Because these are all fairly standard mouthpieces, with just a few minor tweeks to improve on the basic design. Interesting. I picked up a Lindberg 15CL for my King 2-B because of its size, and its price. ($30, OTJ Classifieds, thanks Chris :) ). But if there were a Mouthpiece Exchange today I would be looking for something like an Almont. Not a mouthpiece designed by (or named for) a particular player, but one that was made by a mouthpiece maker, and just happened to have some popularity with players. Michael Shoshani Chicago -- ________________________________________________ Chris Waage, Associate Webmaster chris@trombone.org http://www.trombone.org - A web site for trombonists ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:42:08 -0500 From: "Steve Beck" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mpces? Message-ID: <004501c1cae8$b3f84420$e1320923@cl.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Gabriel Langfur" > > By the way, has anyone other than Lindberg himself had any > success with those mouthpieces? I own a 4CL - it came with the horn. It certainly has a weird configuration. It has the feel of a 6 1/2 AL with a thin rim. However, as Gabe noted, the throat is huge. You can literally drop a pencil through it. I don't play on it regularly, finding an off the shelf Bach 5G to be a little more "comfortable." However, with a little work I actually have a slightly greater upper and lower range on the CL - go figure. Lindberg might actually be on to something here. BTW - Michael - I did notice :-) Michael Shoshani said :We've secretly replaced Gabriel Langfur 's message with Folger's Crystals. Let's see if anyone notices: ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:09:35 -0500 From: "Aaron Roth" To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Prosthesis: "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mpces? Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed So even if you really do get the exact mouthpiece Horatio Highrange uses, narrow with a deep funnel shaped cut to let him fit his prosthesis into, it may not do anything for your wide flat mouth, etc. His prosthesis? At the expense of looking foolish, I have to ask. Huh?? I thought it would be related to an artificial limb of some sort (i.e. prosthetics), leading me to imagine the rubber lips used to scare little children at night. Then I thought of a proboscis, but we don't really have those either, unless we're that species of turtle or something. So...umm...? -Aaron _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:23:31 -0500 (EST) From: "Dr. Carole Nowicke, Applied Health Science" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Prosthesis: "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mpces? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Aaron Roth wrote: > His prosthesis? At the expense of looking foolish, I have to ask. Huh?? Artificial celebrity trombonist lips. You don't think some of what people play is produced by natural means, do you? carole cnowicke@indiana.edu ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:15:23 -0600 From: "Richard Zemry Johnson" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Airway surgery and sleep apnea and playing trombone Message-ID: <003e01c1caf5$b79b6fa0$61bc9d42@zemry> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit After reading this thread and doing dome research on the web, I have decided that I will only undergo the surgery if absolutely necessary! If it ain't life or death, then I will NOT get cut. The research seems to indicate that the surgery has an 85% success rate, tops. It further indicates that scarring results also. I feel that this will definitely have a negative impact on my playing. **************************************************************************** ** Richard Zemry Johnson, Jr. "The Untouchables" Jazz Ensemble Shreveport Metropolitan Concert Band ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, , "There won't come a time when you won't have to practice anymore." J. J. Johnson **************************************************************************** ***** I'm not satisfied with anything about my playing. I know what I want. I can hear it; but it will take time and study to get it" -Sonny Rollins (1956) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Davis" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 2:54 PM Subject: Airway surgery and sleep apnea and playing trombone > Take heart! It may not be as bad as you think. > > I went to the sleep study lab a year and a half ago for a apnea > diagnosis. It's actually kind of cool -- they wire you up and monitor > eye muscles and chin and heart and breathing etc. They film and tape > you sleeping in bed. There's excitement! But they use the tape to > correlate the breathing with your sleep patterns. The room looks like a > hotel room with a few extra gizmos on the wall, and of course the camera > and mic. > > I found out that I do suffer from this condition. You can see where you > just fall asleep and then stop breathing and then wake up, almost and > cycle through this. Some people do this all night and get up in the > morning with no REM sleep. > > Here's the good news: I found out that I have no problem as long as I > sleep on my side. No operation or mask needed, just sleep on my side. > "How do you do that,?" you ask? You train yourself. "How do you do > that," you ask again? You wear a small backpack of fanny pack with a > tennis ball in the small of your back. After a short while, your body > learns that it's not comfortable of your back and you sleep on your side > -- and don't snore. > > So my point is, you may not need to be cut or wear "the mask". > > Good luck. > > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:23:25 -0600 From: Peter Soukup To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Caution: Jokes you may already have heard (Music 101) Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v481) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-4--885699790 The principal singer of nineteenth century opera was called pre-Madonna. It is easy to teach anyone to play the maracas. Just grip the neck and shake him in rhythm. Gregorian chant has no music, just singers singing the same lines. Sherbet composed the Unfinished Symphony. All female parts were sung by castrati. We don't know exactly what they sounded like because there are no known descendants. Young scholars have expressed their rapture for the Bronze Lullaby, the Taco Bell Cannon, Beethoven's Erotica, Tchaikovsky Cracknutter Suite, and Gershwin's Rap City in Blue. Music sung by two people at the same time is called a duel; if they sing without music it is called Acapulco. A virtuoso is a musician with real high morals. Contralto is a low sort of music that only ladies sing. Diatonic is a low calorie Schweppes. Probably the most marvelous fugue was the one between the Hatfields and the McCoys. A harp is a nude piano. The main trouble with a French Horn is that it is too tangled up. An interval in music is the distance from one piano to the next. The correct way to find the key to a piece of music is to use a pitchfork. Agitato is a state of mind when one's finger slips in the middle of playing a piece. Refrain means don't do it. A refrain in music is the part you'd better not try to sing. I know what a sextet is but I'd rather not say. Most authorities agree that music of antiquity was written long ago. My favorite composer was Opus. Agnus Dei was a woman composer famous for her church music. Henry Purcell was a well-known composer few people have ever heard of. Pete Soukup Moonlighters Grand Ave Big Band St. Andrews Brass The Houndz Naperville Area Trombone Ensemble ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:53:21 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Airway surgery and sleep apnea and playing trombone Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020313224704.0287f358@acticalc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 07:15 PM 3/13/2002 -0600, Richard Zemry Johnson wrote: After reading this thread and doing dome research on the web, I have decided that I will only undergo the surgery if absolutely necessary! If it ain't life or death, then I will NOT get cut. The research seems to indicate that the surgery has an 85% success rate, tops. It further indicates that scarring results also. I feel that this will definitely have a negative impact on my playing. Probably a wise choice. The one option that many of us have is to shed a few pounds before thinking about the surgery. I'm not terribly overweight, but I would be a lot better off if I were 15 pounds lighter. A couple of weeks ago I rapidly put on about 10 pounds (a bad combination of overeating and no chance to exercise). I felt lousy and my snoring was the worst it has ever been. I have worked almost all of that excess off and the snoring has receded. It is still a problem, but I believe it would virtually disappear if I dropped the other 15 pounds. Basically everything gets better with a lower weight. Breathing is easier, sleep is better. Energy levels are higher. Mental acuity is increased. It has to be good for trombone playing. The NCAA tournament on TV is a great time to hit the exercycle. All the best, Craig ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:03:48 -0600 From: Bruce Faske To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: ok I gotta ask!!!! Message-ID: <012901c1cb0d$3e8a02d0$2503fea9@Slaveone> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT He has never once talked about Slide-o-Mix, and I think that says it all Ok guys and gals, what's the big SlideOMix debate? The cost, the strange size difference (which leaves me with half a big bottle every time that the small bottle empties) or what? hehehe BF ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:16:22 -0700 From: Dave Tall To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: ok I gotta ask!!!! Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020313211622.014f1458@mail.comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT At 10:03 PM 3/13/2002 -0600, Bruce Faske wrote: >He has never once talked about Slide-o-Mix, and I think that says it all > >Ok guys and gals, what's the big SlideOMix debate? The cost, the strange >size difference (which leaves me with half a big bottle every time that the >small bottle empties) or what? Whether to use regular, or Slide-O-Mix Light. Dave Tall Bass Trombonist New Mexico Symphony ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:17:25 -0800 From: Larry White To: bpfost@humboldt1.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Latin Message-ID: <3C902455.92B0BC65@telus.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think this post has crossed the barrier. This is a Trombone List. We should not be 'swiping' at peoples' religion. Can we not watch what we post please? I am not a Catholic either, but I feel that this could become the 'thin edge of the wedge". JMHO. Larry White Vancouver BC Canada Bodie Pfost wrote: > A dead language for a dead religion??? > > Bodie Pfost > > >From: Adrian Drover > > > >> Hey wait a minute. Do they not speak/pray in Latin in Roman Catholic > >> church? Is that not a speech community? > > > >Not in any catholic church around here that I've been in lately, but then > >again I'm not catholic! > > > >Patrick Bates ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:01:54 -0600 From: "Tom Izzo" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Trombone Catholicism Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu]On Behalf Of Keith Marr Actually folks, not since the second Vatican council in 1963 has the Catholic service been in Latin, although there are still various conservatives who continue in defiance of the Pope's ruling. How do I know these things when my Grandad was an Orangeman?! ___________________________________________ An "Orangeman"??????????????????????????/ > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:29:46 -0600 From: Listmonitor Trombone-L To: Trombone-L Subject: Nothing Further, Please (Re: Latin) Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" This situation has already been handled, so please let this thread die. LM -- --------------------------------------- trombone-l digest archives and useful trombone-l information are available at http://www.trombone.org/trombone-l ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:23:59 -0500 From: Roger Hecht To: fmhudson@arkansas.net, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Opera in English. Was: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue & Latin Message-ID: <4.2.2.20020313171348.00a25220@pop.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_5316907==_.ALT" Personally I first found that I could enjoy opera when in college I played in the pit orchestra for the Charlotte (NC) Opera Association which did everything in English. The longest four hours of my life were spent in the Wagner Opera House in Bayreuth during a performance of "Die Meistersinger" naturally in German as were the program notes and scenario.Ê I love opera. My interest began when I too played in an opera company that performed operas in English. Opera is drama as well as music, and if you don't get the drama, you don't get all the opera. Operas were meant to be entertainment for everyone. Somehow, by singing them in their native languages, they became removed from "the masses" and became a product of the elite, particulary in the US, where the trend toward opera in the original language is strong. (It's getting stronger in Europe.) That's really too bad. So many people see opera as something snobby, and in most cases, it's anything but. This language barrier has made it that. Yet, in some ways, it (and incidental music to dramas) is a precursor to movies. I do understand the arguments for opera in the original langauge. It flows better with the music and follows the composer's conception. (Though one wonders if the composer would prefer the opera to be understood--why else the concern of many to get a dramatic libretto. Is it just to inspire them, or is it also to communicate a drama to the audience?) It's also easier to internationalize a career if you have to sing in only one language. (Then again, we could get to hear more young singers if we promoted more opera in the original language.) Still, I listen to opera in the original all the time. On records, especially, it's fine. But nothing has moved me like the operas I see in medium sized halls, sung in the original language. I remember sitting through Gotterdammerung in Cardiff. It was in English, and the time simply flew. Knowing what was going on (and I did going in) and being able to react to each spoken word is a priceless asset. Janacek's Mikropoulos Case is considered a difficult opera to follow in terms of its libretto. And his operas are considered prototypical in their adherence to the Czech language. I saw it in English, had no trouble following the story, and enjoyed every minute. I liked it better than the Janacek operas I saw in Czech, yet I don't think it's necessarily his best opera. For what it's worth, I've lost this argument hundreds of times. Roger Hecht ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:27:16 -0500 From: Roger Hecht To: "sgamble@tucsonsymphony.org" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mpces? Message-ID: <4.2.2.20020313172617.00a50b70@pop.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_5316982==_.ALT" At 12:11 PM 3/13/2002 -0700, Steve Gamble wrote: It just reinforces their need for permission to excel. When what is required is that someone demand they excel. "Give them what they want", a popular philosophy these days, simply won't do that. Roger Hecht ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 23:32:01 -0500 (EST) From: "Dr. Carole Nowicke, Applied Health Science" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Trombone Catholicism Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Tom Izzo wrote: > How do I know these things when my Grandad was an Orangeman?! > > ___________________________________________ > > An "Orangeman"??????????????????????????/ Played basketball for Princeton. Carole cnowicke@indiana.edu ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 23:26:33 -0600 From: "Fred Hudson" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Orangemen? Message-ID: <005201c1cb18$d2963ec0$331298d8@s0024172501> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dr. Carole Nowicke, Applied Health Science" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 10:32 PM Subject: Re: Trombone Catholicism > > On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Tom Izzo wrote: > > > How do I know these things when my Grandad was an Orangeman?! > > > ___________________________________________ > > > > An "Orangeman"??????????????????????????/ > > Played basketball for Princeton. > > Carole > cnowicke@indiana.edu > Syracuse maybe? Fred ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:02:05 -0800 From: Bodie Pfost To: Trombone Mailing List Subject: Newport Jazz 2002 Message-ID: <3C9058FD.16A4678A@humboldt1.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List, I saw a concert tonight billed as Newport Jazz 2002. It featured Terence Blanchard, Joe Lovano, Cedar Walton, Howard Alden, Justo Almario, Idris Muhammad, and Peter Washington. No bones, but it was a night of great jazz. Terence plays with so much passion! Justo's flute work was impressive. Joe was Joe. The bassist Peter Washington was superb. The whole group really clicked, and they knew all of the subtle things that make an audience feel comfortable. My only complaint was that I couldn't hear Cedar Walton very well. I think that this group would have been well off playing entirely accoustically. I think that it would have helped every one out a lot. It seemed like Idris was playing really loud all night long. The venue was a 700-seat theatre, so it's not like they had to be amplified to be heard. Anyway, if you get the chance to hear these guys, you should... they are worth it. -Bodie ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:00:37 -0500 From: "Lisa & Patrick Bates" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Latin Message-ID: <000e01c1cb58$3de28320$eb885fd8@plbates> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry, no disrespect intended! Patrick ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry White To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 11:17 PM Subject: Re: Latin > I think this post has crossed the barrier. This is a Trombone List. We should > not be 'swiping' at peoples' religion. > Can we not watch what we post please? > I am not a Catholic either, but I feel that this could become the 'thin edge > of the wedge". > JMHO. > Larry White > Vancouver BC > Canada > > > Bodie Pfost wrote: > > > A dead language for a dead religion??? > > > > Bodie Pfost > > > > >From: Adrian Drover > > > > > >> Hey wait a minute. Do they not speak/pray in Latin in Roman Catholic > > >> church? Is that not a speech community? > > > > > >Not in any catholic church around here that I've been in lately, but then > > >again I'm not catholic! > > > > > >Patrick Bates > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:28:10 -0700 From: Earl Needham To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: GENERAL QUALIFICATIONS OF AN ORANGEMAN Message-ID: <4.2.2.20020314072534.00aa1978@pop3.norton.antivirus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 09:01 PM 3/13/2002 -0600, Tom Izzo wrote: -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu]On Behalf Of Keith Marr Actually folks, not since the second Vatican council in 1963 has the Catholic service been in Latin, although there are still various conservatives who continue in defiance of the Pope's ruling. How do I know these things when my Grandad was an Orangeman?! ___________________________________________ An "Orangeman"??????????????????????????/ Take a look at http://www.kirkdale113.freeserve.co.uk/orange04.htm I used to wear green on the 17th of March, but after researching a bit o' my family history, I now wear orange. But what I'd REALLY like to wear would be a shirt that is green on the one side and orange on the other... Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB, Clovis, New Mexico KD5XB-2>APW251,PCSAT-1*:=3425.83N/10313.55W-PHG7150/WinAPRS 2.5.1 -EARL_CLOVIS -251-<630> Did you get a letter from Nigeria offering a "deal"? See http://home.rica.net/alphae/419coal/ and http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/Crimes/Business/nigerian.htm ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:28:51 -0600 From: "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Prosthesis: "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mp ces? Message-ID: <47763CCCA27C4F4FA4BEF7DDB754A1E7124A66@marshall.jmls.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Aaron Roth wrote: > > > His prosthesis? At the expense of looking foolish, I have to ask. > Huh?? > And Carole Nowicke responded > Artificial celebrity trombonist lips. You don't think some of what people > play is produced by natural means, do you? > That reminds me: when Arthur Pryor was on tour in Europe, one group of trombonists who heard him (the trombone section of the Gewandhaus Orchestra in Leipzig comes to mind) didn't believe that what he did was humanly possible without trickery. So they went back stage and demanded to take his trombone apart to find the secret. The secret, of course, was that he was self-taught and therefore had had no one to tell him that certain things were impossible on the trombone. So he just worked at it until he could do them. Is there a lesson here somewhere? Hmmm ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ David Guion, Cataloging Librarian The John Marshall Law School 315 S. Plymouth Ct. Chicago, IL 60604 Voice: (312) 427-2737 x 552 Fax; (312) 427-8307 8guion@jmls.edu Should part-time band directors be called semi-conductors? Quidquid latine dictum sit, profundum viditur. ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:02:57 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: RE: Prosthesis: "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mp ces? Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Aaron Roth wrote: > His prosthesis? At the expense of looking foolish, I have to ask. Huh?? And Carole Nowicke responded Artificial celebrity trombonist lips. You don't think some of what people play is produced by natural means, do you? Then David Guion intoned: That reminds me: when Arthur Pryor was on tour in Europe, one group of trombonists who heard him (the trombone section of the Gewandhaus Orchestra in Leipzig comes to mind) didn't believe that what he did was humanly possible without trickery. So they went back stage and demanded to take his trombone apart to find the secret. The secret, of course, was that he was self-taught and therefore had had no one to tell him that certain things were impossible on the trombone. So he just worked at it until he could do them. Is there a lesson here somewhere? Hmmm "One who says it cannot be done must not interrupt one who is doing it." -- Ancient Chinese Proverb -- ________________________________________________ Chris Waage, Associate Webmaster chris@trombone.org http://www.trombone.org - A web site for trombonists ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:15:53 From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: ok I gotta ask!!!! Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >He has never once talked about Slide-o-Mix, and I think that says it all > >Ok guys and gals, what's the big SlideOMix debate? The cost, the strange >size difference (which leaves me with half a big bottle every time that the >small bottle empties) or what? Whether to use regular, or Slide-O-Mix Light. Dave, What kind of a choice is that? The lite stuff has almost no taste, itâs like Slide-O-Mix-flavored mineral water. No, I go for the dark, full-bodied Slide-O-Mix, it slides down ãreal smoothä. Oh, and Real Men use up the large bottle first. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Join the worldâs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:19:38 From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Opera in English. Was: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue & Latin Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Wanna fall in love with opera? See Bernsteinâs Trouble In Tahiti. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Join the worldâs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:19:30 EST From: BITEensemble@aol.com To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: need to sell Bass Trombone Message-ID: <150.a73c584.29c22792@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Duo Gravis Bass Trombone For Sale great condition - plays great $1500.00 OBO Make me an offer -Wes ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328 Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:53:07 -0800 From: "Gary Maxwell" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: ok I gotta ask!!!! Message-ID: <659829993461CA49942D1312DE343691830A02@edcenmail1.bcsd.k12.ca.us> content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1CB78.B746DA34" The large bottle will NEVER empty first, if you simply return what's in the slide to the bottle, instead of the floor.Ê Gary -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Pliskin [mailto:daniel_pliskin@hotmail.com] Sent: Thu 3/14/2002 8:15 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Cc:ÊÊÊÊ Subject: Re: ok I gotta ask!!!! > >He has never once talked about Slide-o-Mix, and I think that says it all > > > >Ok guys and gals, what's the big SlideOMix debate? The cost, the strange > >size difference (which leaves me with half a big bottle every time that >the > >small bottle empties) or what? > >Whether to use regular, or Slide-O-Mix Light. Dave, What kind of a choice is that? The lite stuff has almost no taste, itÕs like Slide-O-Mix-flavored mineral water. No, I go for the dark, full-bodied Slide-O-Mix, it slides down Òreal smoothÓ. Oh, and Real Men use up the large bottle first. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Join the worldÕs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2328--