TROMBONE-L Digest 2327 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Funnel Shaped Mpces? by "Aaron Roth" 2) Sleep Apnea by "Kathy-Green -TJ" 3) RE: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue by "Stephen M Jones" 4) Greenhoe Rest Bar by "Kathy-Green -TJ" 5) Re: Airway surgery and sleep apnea and playing trombone. by Gary Sloane 6) Sleep Apnea or video games? by Craig Parmerlee 7) Airway surgery and sleep apnea and playing trombone by Keith Davis 8) RE: Colleges...Random Thoughts by "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> 9) Re: Colleges...Random Thoughts by "Steve Beck" 10) UCLA!!! by Stacy Rasgon 11) RE: Funnel Shaped Mpces? by Joseph Green 12) Re: Airway surgery and sleep apnea and playing trombone. by Joseph Green 13) RE: Greenhoe Rest Bar by "Kevin Saunders" 14) Bassoons vs Trombones by "Tom Izzo" 15) Re: Airway surgery and sleep apnea and playing trombone. by "Daniel Pliskin" 16) RE: Bassoons vs Trombones by "Jon Moeller" 17) Re: Greenhoe rest bar by "s76lewis" 18) RE: Bassoons vs Trombones by "Tom Izzo" 19) Re: Bassoons vs Trombones by "Adrian Drover" 20) Re: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue by "Adrian Drover" 21) Re: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue by "Lisa & Patrick Bates" 22) Re: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue by "Keith Marr" 23) Re: Sleep Apnea or video games? by "s76lewis" 24) Re: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue by "Fred Hudson" 25) "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mpces? by Gabriel Langfur 26) Re: "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mpces? by sabutin ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2327 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:03:15 -0500 From: "Aaron Roth" To: Scott.Johnson@turner.com, trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Funnel Shaped Mpces? Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Scott: The best thing I have found in that department is the Stork Custom line. The 5S is the standard size for large horns, but you really can get a custom mouthpiece. Elliot Chasanov plays a Stork 4.9S, if I remember right. I played a 5S on tenor until it got stolen, which may be another mark of its value. Good luck! -Aaron From: "Johnson, Scott (TBS)" Reply-To: Scott.Johnson@turner.com To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Funnel Shaped Mpces? Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:38:24 -0500 All, I am on a quest to find one or two mpces with a funnel shaped rather than bowl shaped cup. The only possibles that I have been told about are: a Remington (size and model TBD) or a Marcinkiewicz. I need help with sizes(?) or model choices for the Remington. I am currently playing on a Bach 42BO using a Schilke 50 (and possibly a 51 to see what that's like). So, what would be a comparable Remington? My research of Marcinkiewicz offerings seems to indicate that their closest match would be an 8HBS. Is that correct? I found the 8HBS in their "Bass Trombone" section, but it looked like it was a 6 1/2AL with a large shank (BS = Bass Shank?). The next question would be, do any of you have one of the above rattling around in your mouthpiece drawer that you would like to send to a good home? Thanks as always for your help. Next to private study, this list is my most valuable trombone resource; quite amazing. Best regards, Scott Johnson Conyers, GA USA _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2327 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:31:11 -0800 From: "Kathy-Green -TJ" To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Sleep Apnea Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I teach psychology as well as band, and I do a lot of reading about current research. One of the newest discoveries is that many children who are diagnosed as ADD/ADHD actually have sleep apnea. As to how much surgery will or will not affect playing, I don't know. I do know that there is a contraption that is different from the CPAP, and probably somewhat like the mouthpiece type thing that was mentioned that helps pull the tongue forward while sleeping. (It looks really strange.) I can see that after a time one might have to readjust to the way one articulates, but I would certainly go with the CPAP before surgery. Kathy Green, Band Director Thomas Jefferson High School "Iāve never known a musician who regretted being one. Whatever deceptions life may have in store for you, music itself is not going to let you down." Virgil Thomson ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2327 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:08:50 -0500 From: "Stephen M Jones" To: "'Adrian Drover'" , , "'Trombones and related issues forum.'" Subject: RE: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue Message-ID: <003e01c1c9e8$94cb6d80$d9585582@Hartwell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Definition of dead language - "A language, such as Latin, that is no longer learned as a native language by a speech community." http://www.dictionary.com Latin is a dead language. -----Original Message----- From: Adrian Drover [mailto:slide.rule@adios.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 4:41 AM To: jeanvaljean@ntsource.com; Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Re: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue RE: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue From: Tom Izzo Not always! Only Latin is a dead language. Italian is not dead, nor is German, French, Russian, etc. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Seems to me there's still a heck of a lot of Latin used even today. Who says it's dead? A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2327 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:36:57 -0800 From: "Kathy-Green -TJ" To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Greenhoe Rest Bar Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I recently purchased a Greenhoe Rest Bar for my Yamaha 622, and it has made a really huge difference! I am still in the process of figuring out exactly where it needs to be placed. It comes with a lined hose clamp that you can adjust yourself until you find where you want it, then it can be soldiered. I am currently trying it along with the Doug Yeo grip, which before was very uncomfortable. Now it works great. I am trying to avoid having any adjustments to the angle of my F-attachment trigger, but it may be necessary. I broke my thumb years ago and when I bend it, it really angles to the side. The only problem right now is that the angle of the curve is just barely digging into my hand, but I'm trying a glove to see if that helps. If anyone else is using a Greenhoe rest bar with with their bass trombone, I'd appreciate any suggestions for grip, adjustments of triggers, etc. I really recommend this for anyone with hand problems. (Note: this is an unsolicited positive comment about this product.) Kathy Green, Band Director Thomas Jefferson High School "Iāve never known a musician who regretted being one. Whatever deceptions life may have in store for you, music itself is not going to let you down." Virgil Thomson ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2327 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:45:37 -0800 From: Gary Sloane To: "Richard Johnson" Cc: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Airway surgery and sleep apnea and playing trombone. Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" A word of warning: I have a *serious* diagnosed case of sleep apnea. Serious means that when I was tested at the Stanford Sleep Clinic a few years ago, they found that I had several hundred separate "episodes" during the one night when they took measurements. Unfortunately, this disqualified me from the experimental RF (radio frequency) treatment they have developed there, which looks to me like the most desirable alternative. (My understanding is that, while they're still in an experimental phase, they want to concentrate on cases most likely to show great improvement; my pharanx, I've been told, is so long and floppy [and my apnea so severe] that they're not confident the treatment would help me...and an un-successful case would interfere with their statistics.) If you are diagnosed with a light or moderate case of apnea, I strongly suggest you look into this non-invasive treatment, before you consider surgery, whether conventional or laser. The experimental treatment uses radio waves to reduce some of the bulk of the back of the tongue in order to reduce the involuntary closure of the interface between pharanx and tongue. This is a simple office procedure that requires no hospital stay, no anesthesia. The main drawback is: thereis no insurance coverage yet, because the insurance companies don't feel like paying for procedures they consider experimental. On the other hand, it's been developed by some of the top researchers and practitioners at Stanford Medical School...not exactly a fly-by-night outfit. If you are committed to conventional surgery, here are some thoughts: 1. If you ask your (potential) surgeon about the rates of success and failure, you'll find about an 85% success rate. That's *very low* compared to many more serious procedures, such as appendectomy. 2. If you try to find out what could go wrong if you happen to fall into that unlucky 15%, you'll be disappointed. a. You risk being unable to form a glottal seal afterward; this is GUARANTEED to affect your ability to play trombone. b. Reconstructive surgery is all but impossible. c. There may be other side effects as well. I don't want to be a total alarmist, but among the possible negative side effects is death. d. This is major surgery INSIDE YOUR HEAD, and there are all kinds of secondary risks, such as from the effects of anesthesia and from infection. e. Unless your surgeon is a brass player, he or she will have no idea whatsoever of what is involved if you can't play any longer, and won't take your concern seriously. 3. Nobody has mentioned so far that this is an EXTREMELY PAINFUL procedure that takes a long time -- weeks to months -- to heal. 4. This is ELECTIVE surgery. I've had other surgeries that were not elective -- they were life-threatening situations, and I'm truly thankful that the appropriate care was available. However, my personal policy is: surgery only when absolutely necessary, as a last resort. Got a tumor? Get rid of it. Snore too much? Look into the alternatives. Also, Jerry Blomberg mentions the Snore Ban device. I looked up the web page and ordered one. (Total cost: $37.50, not $19.95, but still a bargain if it works.) I'll report back to the list in a few weeks. On the Positive Airflow devices: I have a cousin who swears by his, but I found that, when I last looked into it, they cost about $2,000 a piece, were not available on a trial basis, and were not covered by my insurance carrier. Another point: Although my erstwhile girlfriend used to complain bitterly about my snoring (but never noticed her own --another story), once I stopped staying over, she still complained that she wasn't getting a good night's sleep. OK, save the cheap jokes.... but whatever was going on, my snoring is not what kept her from sleeping. Finally, hoping I haven't been too morbid already, there's an apocryphal story in my family that my grandfather, on his way home from the print shop, would greet his neighbors with an old Yiddish saying, "A gringe mise" -- "(May you have) an easy death". This was a blessing, not an insult. If I don't treat the apnea, some day I'll die peacefully in my sleep. (That's right, not screaming, like his passengers.) There are worse ways to go. Gary My doctor told me that I have sleep apnea. It is a problem that causes problems sleeping, heavy snoring, higher risks of high blood pressure and heart problems. There are several solutions; (1) lose weight, which I intend on doing (2) sleep with some stupid contraction hooked to my nose, which I don't intend on doing or (3) have minor out-patient surgery which will increase the size of my airway and enable me to sleep better, less snoring, perhaps lower blood pressure. I fully intend to have this surgery, if called for. I'll know more Friday morning, after my sleeping test. Excess weight seems to decrease the size of the airway and this causes sleep apnea, from what I understand. I would hazard that a smaller airway would also be detrimental to playing trombone. Now my questions. First, has anyone on the list had this surgery? Secondly, after the surgery was your playing the same, better or worse? Third, how long does it take to start playing again? **************************************************************************** ** Richard Zemry Johnson, Jr. "The Untouchables" Jazz Ensemble Shreveport Metropolitan Concert Band ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, , "There won't come a time when you won't have to practice anymore." J. J. Johnson **************************************************************************** ***** I'm not satisfied with anything about my playing. I know what I want. I can hear it; but it will take time and study to get it" -Sonny Rollins (1956) -- Gary Sloane sloane@batnet.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2327 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:51:48 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Sleep Apnea or video games? Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020312144227.02813508@acticalc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 10:31 AM 3/12/2002 -0800, Kathy-Green -TJ wrote: I teach psychology as well as band, and I do a lot of reading about current research. One of the newest discoveries is that many children who are diagnosed as ADD/ADHD actually have sleep apnea. I always wonder how many of these fancy medical terms are just mumbo jumbo for something a lot simpler, like getting a good night's sleep and not staying up until 1AM playing video games. There was an interesting study done in one of the San Diego school systems. The system was short of facilities so they put their students on 2 shifts. The regular shift started at the God forsaken hour of 6:45 or something equally asinine, like 90% of the school systems do. The other shift started at 10AM. Is anybody surprised that the later kids outperformed the early risers by a very significant margin? I'll never understand why the schools insist on sticking to such a schedule that snatches kids out of a deep sleep to have them comatose through their first 4 periods, then dumps them at home at 2:20, often without supervision. I don't have to be an internationally famous researcher to know that is bound to get lousy results. If they had a phys ed period in the morning, maybe that would wake them up, but we don't do phys ed anymore. How come these early schedules are so common? Is it the teacher's union lobbying for that or is it just some industry-wide group-think? Craig ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2327 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:54:06 -0500 From: Keith Davis To: Trombone List Subject: Airway surgery and sleep apnea and playing trombone Message-ID: <3C8E6AED.BDABBF2A@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Take heart! It may not be as bad as you think. I went to the sleep study lab a year and a half ago for a apnea diagnosis. It's actually kind of cool -- they wire you up and monitor eye muscles and chin and heart and breathing etc. They film and tape you sleeping in bed. There's excitement! But they use the tape to correlate the breathing with your sleep patterns. The room looks like a hotel room with a few extra gizmos on the wall, and of course the camera and mic. I found out that I do suffer from this condition. You can see where you just fall asleep and then stop breathing and then wake up, almost and cycle through this. Some people do this all night and get up in the morning with no REM sleep. Here's the good news: I found out that I have no problem as long as I sleep on my side. No operation or mask needed, just sleep on my side. "How do you do that,?" you ask? You train yourself. "How do you do that," you ask again? You wear a small backpack of fanny pack with a tennis ball in the small of your back. After a short while, your body learns that it's not comfortable of your back and you sleep on your side -- and don't snore. So my point is, you may not need to be cut or wear "the mask". Good luck. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2327 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:13:48 -0600 From: "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Colleges...Random Thoughts Message-ID: <47763CCCA27C4F4FA4BEF7DDB754A1E7124A54@marshall.jmls.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > I have applied to, auditioned for, and am interested in going to either > UCLA > or CSU Fullerton. . . But, how should I decide? Prestige? Money? Location? > Liz, FWIW, I did graduate work at UCSan Diego. Now that was way back in the dark ages and things could have changed since then, but I was told by any number of people who should know that the CSU system was intended as the sort of state university every other state has, offering all the standard majors: like music education and music performance. The UC system was intended to be something more specialized, more intellectual, less accessible to people of more average ambition. Most of the UC music departments specialized in graduate programs in musicology, theory, or composition. There was not much of a program for undergraduates at UCSD, and as a consequence, no undergraduate music majors with any real talent or ambition. In a way the system backfired. As I say, things may have changed drastically since I was there, and I was told at the time that UCLA and UCSB (Santa Barbara) were exceptions to the general rule that UC campuses had lousy undergraduate programs in music. But I don't think that prestige, money, or location are necessarily the things to look at--prestige least of all. What kind of performance outlets are there for undergraduates? Look for good bands and orchestras, numerous small ensembles of various kinds, etc. Too often at the more prestigious schools, the best opportunities are reserved for graduate students. Look at how good other undergraduate students are. Is that the level you want to attain, too far above you, or too far beneath you? Look at the whole program. Will you be well rounded in theory and history once you finish the curriculum? If you want a teaching certificate, is a music education major offered? What do music students do once they have graduated? I suspect that UCLA and CSU Fullerton are more nearly alike in money than either are like, say, USC. I gather that either location is workable. If there are specific issues with either place, you have to decide if you can put up with them. Your private teacher is likewise very important. Details matter, but so does the overall picture. ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ David Guion, Cataloging Librarian The John Marshall Law School 315 S. Plymouth Ct. Chicago, IL 60604 Voice: (312) 427-2737 x 552 Fax; (312) 427-8307 8guion@jmls.edu Should part-time band directors be called semi-conductors? Quidquid latine dictum sit, profundum viditur. ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2327 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:05:56 -0500 From: "Steve Beck" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Colleges...Random Thoughts Message-ID: <00c601c1ca09$b5945c40$0b070c23@cl.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Elisabeth Frederick> Fishy swimming off to practice? With Fins? Ahhh...I can't hold the slide! Obviously a "Bass" player. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2327 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:01:40 -0500 From: Stacy Rasgon To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: UCLA!!! Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020312165920.01b312d8@po11> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I did my undergrad at UCLA (engineering, not music). While I don't know anything about the music department, the campus itself is absolutely wonderful! Of all the things I miss about California, UCLA is near the top of the list. Try DiStephano's in Westwood for the best Italian food you ever ate in LA! Take care, Stacy At 12:04 PM 3/12/2002 -0600, you wrote: Hello List.....Valuable Source of Random Knowledge! I've been thinking......(can you hear the jaws theme?).....about the whole college thing. I have been told many times one of the most important things about choosing a music school is whoever your private teacher will be. But, let pretend....(whole tone scale, ala Mr. Rogers neighborhood) ....off to the land of make believe. I have applied to, auditioned for, and am interested in going to either UCLA or CSU Fullerton. (I also applied to CSU Northridge, but its so far away, and they seem disorganized) As far as I know, I have the GPA and the proper requirements to make it pass admissions, AND, I have gotten the distinct impression both from myself and the people listening in the auditions, that they liked what they heard. So....pretend....I can go to either school. I haven't really met the teacher at UCLA, Bill Booth, so I can't say if I 'know' that I really like or dislike him. I can say that he plays very well. I'm planning on getting a lesson soon, before acceptance letters come out, so I have a better idea. But, how should I decide? Prestige? Money? Location? Some things that bug me; I don't like that it is so difficult to have a car in LA. I like the idea of being able to go home and see my boyfriend etc. The price difference. I am impressed with how cheap CSU's are. I didn't really realize it. But, I want to be in an environment where I am a 'little' fish in a big pond. Or so I think. At the JR College I'm at I am THE trombone player that is 'really' involved in the music department, therefore I am a very big fish in a really small pond. I do think that some competition would be good for me, but how do I gauge how much is good? I am very motivated, I like to play 'hard' music. I love challenges. Does it really matter if I am a big fish or a little fish? Fishy swimming off to practice? With Fins? Ahhh...I can't hold the slide! Sorry for my rambling, hope you like my imagery! Liz A big fish, needing a bigger pond *********************************************************** Mr. Stacy A. Rasgon Ph.D. Candidate MIT Department of Chemical Engineering 77 Massachusetts Avenue, Room 66-219 Cambridge, MA 02139 (617) 253 - 6586 srasgon@mit.edu *********************************************************** ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2327 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 06:49:27 +0900 From: Joseph Green To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu, Scott.Johnson@turner.com Subject: RE: Funnel Shaped Mpces? Message-ID: <3C8E77E5.4B4A@twics.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ?> I am on a quest to find one or two mpces with a funnel shaped rather > than bowl shaped cup. The only possibles that I have been told about > are: a Remington (size and model TBD) or a Marcinkiewicz. The Lindberg mouthpieces (made by UMI) are also funnel shaped. JG ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2327 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 07:30:31 +0900 From: Joseph Green To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Airway surgery and sleep apnea and playing trombone. Message-ID: <3C8E8185.20CA@twics.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ?Bruce Guttman wrote: > ........ the > "stupid contraption" (it's called a CPAP, Cardio-Pulmonary Air Pump). No. I suppose the devices could be marketed under various brand names, but CPAP in fact stands for continuous positive airway pressure (because that's what the thing gives you). Not sure? There are many references; here's one: . JG +++++++++++++++ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2327 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:48:59 -0600 From: "Kevin Saunders" To: "'Trombones and related issues forum.'" Subject: RE: Greenhoe Rest Bar Message-ID: <002701c1ca18$19bff180$1601a8c0@PrecWks530> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Kathy, Here are some points on adjustment of the Greenhoe Rest Bar. 1) Get it as low on the receiver as you can stand. I have mine set up so low that the locknut actually cannot completely retract, which means I have to place the bell on the stand and then install the handslide. This is a compromise, of course, but one that I can easily handle, as the "best" ergonomic position for the crook of your hand is in fact interfering with the locknut. 2) I think the "Yeo Grip" (first and middle fingers above the handslide crossbar) is a superior way to hold the horn, and although it takes getting used to, is a dream with the rest bar. 3) Set the "twist" of the bar up so your hand slips into the grip with the trigger rather far out on the last joint. This gives your thumb more travel, at the modest expense of mechanical advantage. You will know if this is "too" far. Also, if the end of the bar is digging into your hand, twist it toward the trigger a bit. 4) The rest bar actually goes into a soft part of your hand, and that area is not used to supporting weight. Soon, however, you will toughen up that part and it will not be uncomfortable. Please e-mail back if you need more help. Best Regards, Kevin Saunders -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu]On Behalf Of Kathy-Green -TJ Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 12:37 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Greenhoe Rest Bar I recently purchased a Greenhoe Rest Bar for my Yamaha 622, and it has made a really huge difference! I am still in the process of figuring out exactly where it needs to be placed. It comes with a lined hose clamp that you can adjust yourself until you find where you want it, then it can be soldiered. I am currently trying it along with the Doug Yeo grip, which before was very uncomfortable. Now it works great. I am trying to avoid having any adjustments to the angle of my F-attachment trigger, but it may be necessary. I broke my thumb years ago and when I bend it, it really angles to the side. The only problem right now is that the angle of the curve is just barely digging into my hand, but I'm trying a glove to see if that helps. If anyone else is using a Greenhoe rest bar with with their bass trombone, I'd appreciate any suggestions for grip, adjustments of triggers, etc. I really recommend this for anyone with hand problems. (Note: this is an unsolicited positive comment about this product.) Kathy Green, Band Director Thomas Jefferson High School "Iāve never known a musician who regretted being one. Whatever deceptions life may have in store for you, music itself is not going to let you down." Virgil Thomson ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2327 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:37:53 -0600 From: "Tom Izzo" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Bassoons vs Trombones Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rod, -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu]On Behalf Of Daniel Pliskin S Rod, Do you actually think that a musician could afford two bassoons? DanP _________________________________ Most Bassoonists I know, own 2 or more Bassoons And the very few who actually own a ContraBassoon, would of course own at least one other Bassoon. Tom > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2327 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 23:56:45 From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Airway surgery and sleep apnea and playing trombone. Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed If snoring and/or sleep apnea has something to do with the size of oneās tongue, then thereās a vitamin, niacin, which will shrink your tongue. Itās actually preferable to take it in the form of niacin amide, which doesnāt give you the side effect of hot flashes. Niacin is a water-soluble vitamin, so thereās no danger of overdosing. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2327 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 18:01:12 -0600 From: "Jon Moeller" To: "Trombone List" Subject: RE: Bassoons vs Trombones Message-ID: <000001c1ca22$30290ce0$3101a8c0@Jon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Its just that trombone players have no money, so we cant afford 2 or more =) -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu] On Behalf Of Tom Izzo Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 5:38 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Bassoons vs Trombones Rod, -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu]On Behalf Of Daniel Pliskin S Rod, Do you actually think that a musician could afford two bassoons? DanP _________________________________ Most Bassoonists I know, own 2 or more Bassoons And the very few who actually own a ContraBassoon, would of course own at least one other Bassoon. Tom > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2327 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:19:25 -0600 From: "s76lewis" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Greenhoe rest bar Message-ID: <002a01c1ca35$7f404380$6501a8c0@sandy> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To Kathy and the T-list; There's no hurry to attach the bar permanently. And do you use the Doug Yeo grip with the forefinger or the middle finger straddling the handslide bar ? I find that separating the middle and ring finger hurts but the forefinger-middle finger separation gives extra support. I had to cut a hole in my case to accomodate the "thumb." Sandy Lewis ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2327 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:11:22 -0600 From: "Tom Izzo" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Bassoons vs Trombones Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu]On Behalf Of Jon Moeller Its just that trombone players have no money, so we cant afford 2 or more =) __________________________ hahahahaha You don't know who you're writing to. LOL It's a LOT cheaper to have more than 2 Trbs than to have more than 2 Bassoons. Tom (owner of LOTS of Trombones) :-) http://www.Geocities.com/Vienna/Studio/7875/ -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu] On Behalf Of Tom Izzo Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 5:38 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Bassoons vs Trombones Rod, -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu]On Behalf Of Daniel Pliskin S Rod, Do you actually think that a musician could afford two bassoons? DanP _________________________________ Most Bassoonists I know, own 2 or more Bassoons And the very few who actually own a ContraBassoon, would of course own at least one other Bassoon. Tom > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2327 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:43:48 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Bassoons vs Trombones Message-ID: <009e01c1ca6b$99dc0810$f37d68d5@homel29g9mgyk9> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Jon Moeller" > Its just that trombone players have no money, so we cant afford 2 or > more =) Why would a trombone player need 2 or more bassoons? A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2327 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:45:13 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: "Stephen M Jones" , , "'Trombones and related issues forum.'" Subject: Re: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue Message-ID: <009f01c1ca6b$9d3e6cf0$f37d68d5@homel29g9mgyk9> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Stephen M Jones" > Definition of dead language - "A language, such as Latin, that is no > longer learned as a native language by a speech community." > http://www.dictionary.com > > Latin is a dead language. So, there's absolutely no need for anyone to learn the language in school/college? I wish my school had been aware that it was dead. I could have spent more time on music. Hey wait a minute. Do they not speak/pray in Latin in Roman Catholic church? Is that not a speech community? A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2327 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 07:26:09 -0500 From: "Lisa & Patrick Bates" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue Message-ID: <001a01c1ca8a$42205f80$4b885fd8@plbates> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Adrian Drover > Hey wait a minute. Do they not speak/pray in Latin in Roman Catholic > church? Is that not a speech community? Not in any catholic church around here that I've been in lately, but then again I'm not catholic! Patrick Bates ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2327 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:51:12 -0000 From: "Keith Marr" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue Message-ID: <000c01c1ca8d$dce550e0$9f0886d9@tiny> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Actually folks, not since the second Vatican council in 1963 has the Catholic service been in Latin, although there are still various conservatives who continue in defiance of the Pope's ruling. How do I know these things when my Grandad was an Orangeman?! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa & Patrick Bates" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 12:26 PM Subject: Re: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue > > > From: Adrian Drover > > > Hey wait a minute. Do they not speak/pray in Latin in Roman Catholic > > church? Is that not a speech community? > > Not in any catholic church around here that I've been in lately, but then > again I'm not catholic! > > Patrick Bates > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2327 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 07:05:26 -0600 From: "s76lewis" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Sleep Apnea or video games? Message-ID: <000901c1ca8f$c187c880$6501a8c0@sandy> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Right On, Craig! But has anyone figured how to keep teenagers on a sleep schedule so Mom or Dad can get their 6 1/2 hours sleep? Never mind 8 hours! Sandy Lewis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Parmerlee" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 1:51 PM Subject: Sleep Apnea or video games? > At 10:31 AM 3/12/2002 -0800, Kathy-Green -TJ wrote: > >I teach psychology as well as band, and I do a lot of reading about > >current research. One of the newest discoveries is that many children who > >are diagnosed as ADD/ADHD actually have sleep apnea. > > I always wonder how many of these fancy medical terms are just mumbo jumbo > for something a lot simpler, like getting a good night's sleep and not > staying up until 1AM playing video games. > > There was an interesting study done in one of the San Diego school > systems. The system was short of facilities so they put their students on > 2 shifts. The regular shift started at the God forsaken hour of 6:45 or > something equally asinine, like 90% of the school systems do. The other > shift started at 10AM. Is anybody surprised that the later kids > outperformed the early risers by a very significant margin? > > I'll never understand why the schools insist on sticking to such a schedule > that snatches kids out of a deep sleep to have them comatose through their > first 4 periods, then dumps them at home at 2:20, often without > supervision. I don't have to be an internationally famous researcher to > know that is bound to get lousy results. If they had a phys ed period in > the morning, maybe that would wake them up, but we don't do phys ed anymore. > > How come these early schedules are so common? Is it the teacher's union > lobbying for that or is it just some industry-wide group-think? > Craig > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2327 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:11:49 -0600 From: "Fred Hudson" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue Message-ID: <001001c1caa9$c93d3500$331298d8@s0024172501> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Latin is not dead - It's only sleeping! As the "Mother Tongue" of Italian, French, Spanish, Romanian and, YES!, 2/3 of the English vocabulary Latin lives on in various degrees of corruption. Just this past Sunday I sang with our Community Choral Society in a performanceof Faure's "Requiem". The books had both the "Original Latin Text" and a translated English text. The score had changes in rythm and in some cases added notes to accomodate the English, which was sometimes confusing as we were singing the Latin version. I believe the "Latin" was actually Italian! At least we used Italian phonetics as they are easier to sing. (Latin C = K, V = W, Italian C = Ch, V = V); and the choral director insisted on crisp consonants as she would have done if we were singing in English, udnerscoring the point made up front in this thread. Without crisp consonants nobody can understand a word you are singing no matter what the language. I won't get into the discussion over "Original vs. English" for opera - that's like arguing over which is the best cut of meat. Ave Caesar! Fred Hudson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Marr" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 6:51 AM Subject: Re: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue > Actually folks, not since the second Vatican council in 1963 has the > Catholic service been in Latin, although there are still various > conservatives who continue in defiance of the Pope's ruling. > > How do I know these things when my Grandad was an Orangeman?! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lisa & Patrick Bates" > To: "Trombones and related issues forum." > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 12:26 PM > Subject: Re: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue > > > > > > > > From: Adrian Drover > > > > > Hey wait a minute. Do they not speak/pray in Latin in Roman Catholic > > > church? Is that not a speech community? > > > > Not in any catholic church around here that I've been in lately, but then > > again I'm not catholic! > > > > Patrick Bates > > > > > > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2327 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:47:43 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mpces? Message-ID: <20020313164743.93135.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Joseph Green wrote: > The Lindberg mouthpieces (made by UMI) are also funnel > shaped. Actually, I think that funnel shape on the outside is deceiving - the inside is quite bowl-shaped if I remember correctly. By the way, has anyone other than Lindberg himself had any success with those mouthpieces? They're such a bizarre design, with that wide-open throat and no taper to the backbore as far as I can tell. I had a student who bought one a couple of years ago, and just sounded awful on it. I know one guy who sounds great on the alto mouthpiece, but other than that... Which brings me to another topic. What do y'all think about the named products for brass players? Some of them - the Doug Yeo mouthpiece, the Jeff Reynolds mouthpiece, the Stork lines of trumpet and horn mouthpieces - seem to be very good, fairly mainstream variations on classic designs. I like my Reynolds mouthpiece very much, although I would prefer if it had the maker's name rather than the endorser's on it - my own opinion. Others, namely (in my opinion of course) the Lindberg and most of the Alessi mouthpieces, are extreme designs. They must work well for those players, or they wouldn't play them, but the majority of us would have trouble using those pieces in any kind of normal playing situation. And some of them, like the Phil Teele and George Roberts Marcinciewicz mouthpieces, are NOT what those players play. I tend to be wary of those endorsements myself, but I'm afraid some younger players are swayed by them, thinking that THIS is what they have to play in order to get to that level. In particular, I hear younger tenor trombone players playing mouthpieces that are obviously too big for them to control with any focus or security in the high register, and I think Joe Alessi putting his own extreme mouthpiece out there for public consumption has something to do with it. "If this is what he's playing, then clearly I should play the biggest mouthpiece I possibly can." I heard Joe live in a masterclass a couple of weeks ago, and he doesn't sound like he's playing a particularly big mouthpiece. Clearly he has focus and control of his equipment. If the younger players who aspire to that level would LISTEN to him rather than buy a mouthpiece with his name on it, they'd be much better off. End of rant. Am I way off base? Gabe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2327 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:38:34 -0500 From: sabutin To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: "celebrity" endorsements was RE: Funnel Shaped Mpces? Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Not only is Gabe NOT way off base here...he's absolutely correct. Endorsements are money + power driven almost all of the time...often to the point of pure cycnicism. Believe it. If you snicker while watching Michael Jordan endorse basketball shoes or underwear, if you think the idea of Tiger Woods driving a Buick is as absurd as I do, and then pick up you "Mr. X" horn w/your "Mr. Y" m'pce and try to play...the laugh's on you, podna. I mean...if you've tried everything you can get your hands on and in blind tests CHOSEN the Mr. Z triple valve alto trombone w/the solid platinum tuning slide...great. Just don't be surprised when you put your opera glasses on Mr. Z next time the Best Ever Orchestra Incorporated comes through your town and find that he's playing an old Conn alto w/a Mt. Vernon Bach 11C m'pce. Happens all the time. And while I'm at it...don't necessarily believe that the "Mr. Q" horn or m'pce you are playing is in ANY way the same as the one HE'S playing. Sometimes yes...Doug Yeo is very careful about these sort of things, for instance...and sometimes no. Could LOOK the same, but be 40 years and 20 instrument designers newer. Could be contemporary w/the horn the hero is playing but his has been so tweaked as to be a different horn altogether...could be that the manufacturer actually MEANS well but can't keep up w/the many changes the endorser has made and continues to make...could be many things... Bottom line...only the most extreme blindfold tests will tell you what's what. Buyer beware. S. P,S, That Hanes commercial w/Michael Jordan is SO true. When he walks out the door rolling his eyes saying "Well...at least they're Hanes" or something of the sort...that's the way many endorsers feel as well. If you want to equal whatever's inside of Michael shorts,.buying the same brand of underwear ain't gonna do it. Sorry. ================= --- Joseph Green wrote: The Lindberg mouthpieces (made by UMI) are also funnel shaped. Actually, I think that funnel shape on the outside is deceiving - the inside is quite bowl-shaped if I remember correctly. By the way, has anyone other than Lindberg himself had any success with those mouthpieces? They're such a bizarre design, with that wide-open throat and no taper to the backbore as far as I can tell. I had a student who bought one a couple of years ago, and just sounded awful on it. I know one guy who sounds great on the alto mouthpiece, but other than that... Which brings me to another topic. What do y'all think about the named products for brass players? Some of them - the Doug Yeo mouthpiece, the Jeff Reynolds mouthpiece, the Stork lines of trumpet and horn mouthpieces - seem to be very good, fairly mainstream variations on classic designs. I like my Reynolds mouthpiece very much, although I would prefer if it had the maker's name rather than the endorser's on it - my own opinion. Others, namely (in my opinion of course) the Lindberg and most of the Alessi mouthpieces, are extreme designs. They must work well for those players, or they wouldn't play them, but the majority of us would have trouble using those pieces in any kind of normal playing situation. And some of them, like the Phil Teele and George Roberts Marcinciewicz mouthpieces, are NOT what those players play. I tend to be wary of those endorsements myself, but I'm afraid some younger players are swayed by them, thinking that THIS is what they have to play in order to get to that level. In particular, I hear younger tenor trombone players playing mouthpieces that are obviously too big for them to control with any focus or security in the high register, and I think Joe Alessi putting his own extreme mouthpiece out there for public consumption has something to do with it. "If this is what he's playing, then clearly I should play the biggest mouthpiece I possibly can." I heard Joe live in a masterclass a couple of weeks ago, and he doesn't sound like he's playing a particularly big mouthpiece. Clearly he has focus and control of his equipment. If the younger players who aspire to that level would LISTEN to him rather than buy a mouthpiece with his name on it, they'd be much better off. End of rant. Am I way off base? Gabe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2327--