TROMBONE-L Digest 2301 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Mahler 3 by T2PHXS@aol.com 2) Wanted: .547/.562 dual bore slide by BassBonist@aol.com 3) RE: Mahler 3 by "Holst, Bill" 4) RE: I can't whistle. Bill can. Can you? by richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL 5) Which is better? by "smith.howard" 6) Re: Mahler 3 by "smith.howard" 7) Re: Which is better? by "Dr. Carole Nowicke, Applied Health Science" 8) Re: Whistlers, and their mothers by "Tom C. Shaddox" 9) Re: Orchestras in trouble? was instrument evolution by Gabriel Langfur 10) Re: Which is better? by Mearl Danner 11) very encouraging orchestra statistics by Gabriel Langfur 12) RE: Mahler 3/Better than by "Gary Maxwell" 13) Re: Mahler 3 by Randy Campora 14) Re: Which is better? by "Hal Starkey" 15) Mahler 3 by Jim Ryon 16) RE: Whistlers, and their mothers by "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" 17) Final Boston Pops SuperBowl photos online by Douglas Yeo 18) Re: very encouraging orchestra statistics by Craig Parmerlee 19) RE: Mahler 3 by "Thomas Smee" 20) Re: insurance, bach linkages, static by "Adrian Drover" 21) re: Mahler 3 by Peter Ellefson 22) Lindberg in Chicago by "Hal Starkey" 23) Re: Mahler 3 [utah] by "Michael Clayville" 24) Re: very encouraging orchestra statistics by "Rod Ellard" 25) Re: Which is better? by "smith.howard" 26) Re: very encouraging orchestra statistics by Craig Parmerlee 27) Concerto for 2 Trumpets, Vivaldi/Brass Ensemble Music by Gordon Cherry 28) RE: Which is better? by "Jon Moeller" 29) Re: very encouraging orchestra statistics by BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com 30) Re: Mahler 3 by Joseph Green 31) Reynolds Instruments by "Roger L. Karren" 32) Re: Anything happening in NY? by sabutin 33) One good reason to keep the trombones in the back row by "Dale J. Cruse" 34) Re: Lindberg in Chicago by Brian French 35) Re: very encouraging orchestra statistics by "keith.marr" 36) Mahler Symphony No.3 by JFBermann@aol.com 37) Re: Instrument design over the past 100 years or so by "Adrian Drover" 38) RE: Instrument design over the past 100 years or so by "Dale J. Cruse" 39) Re: Instrument design over the past 100 years or so by "Paul Hill" 40) Re: very encouraging orchestra statistics by sabutin 41) Re: Mahler Symphony No.3 by Douglas Yeo 42) Alain Trudel review! by JLindem96@aol.com 43) Tenor Trumpets (Re: Instrument design over the past 100 years or so) by "Aaron Roth" 44) Re: very encouraging orchestra statistics by Craig Parmerlee 45) Re: very encouraging orchestra statistics by Brian French 46) Re: Tenor Trumpets (Re: Instrument design over the past 100 years or so) by Earl Needham 47) Akiyoshi big band by Dave Tall 48) Re: Tenor Trumpets (Re: Instrument design over the past 100 years or so) by "Aaron Roth" 49) Re: Instrument design over the past 100 years or so by Dave Tall 50) Re: Tenor Trumpets (Re: Instrument design over the past 100 years or so) by Walter Barrett 51) Re: very encouraging orchestra statistics by sabutin 52) The Memorabilia of Music - long by "Dale J. Cruse" 53) RE: Mahler 3 [utah] by "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" 54) Re: Tenor Trumpets (Re: Instrument design over the past 100 years or so) by James Scott 55) Re: Mahler 3 by James Scott 56) Re: very encouraging orchestra statistics by Gabriel Langfur 57) Re: very encouraging orchestra statistics by sabutin 58) Re: Mahler 3 [utah] by James Scott ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 13:09:23 EST From: T2PHXS@aol.com To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Cc: T2PHXS@aol.com Subject: Re: Mahler 3 Message-ID: <114.c79db2f.299d5753@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, While we're at it, try to find a copy of the Utah Symphony under Maurice Abravanel. It was recorded in the early 60s (61, 62, or 63) and Ned Meredith is the soloist. They recorded it (On one take) on a Saturday morninin' starting around 8a.m. the week BEFORE the orchestra performed it on their classics series. There were no other recordings to listen to at that time except one other by a very small European orchestra. All music was created from the markings on the page....... Joe(s), Ralph Sauer, and the Denis Wick recordings are my other personal favorites. CREDO ! , Mike Brown, Phoenix Symphony ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 13:15:48 EST From: BassBonist@aol.com To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Wanted: .547/.562 dual bore slide Message-ID: <177.39bae58.299d58d4@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_177.39bae58.299d58d4_boundary" Listers! I am looking for a .547"/.562" dual bore handslide with a Conn style receiver. Please contact me off list if you have one you wish to part with or have any leads. Thanks, Matt Varho ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 11:56:22 -0700 From: "Holst, Bill" To: "'briar@chicagonet.net'" , trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Mahler 3 Message-ID: <65B9C0230E16D311B9D600105A090E6F5520EC@FIR> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" There is no shortage of recordings. My personal favorite is Alessi's. Here is a list... Albums with Complete Performances of this Work Mahler: Symphony No.3 Denon/7828 (1985) Mahler: Symphonies Nos. 3 & 4 EMI/74297 (1979) Mahler: Symphony No3 EMI/56657 (1997) Mahler:SYMPHONY 3 Telarc/80481 (1998) Mahler: Symphony No.3 Arte Nova/34046 (1995) Mahler: Symphony No. 3 Teldec/82354 (1999) Mahler: Symphony No. 3 BBC/4004 (1969) Mahler: The Symphonies London/430805-14 (1982) Mahler: Symphony 3 & 1 RCA/634692 (1962) Mahler: Symphonies 3 & 8 Supraphon/111972-2033 (1981) Mahler: Symphonies Supraphon/1860 (1981) Mitropoulos Conducts Mahler Music & Arts/1021 (1956) Mahler: Symphonies 3 & 8 Living Stage/34702 (1956) Mahler: Complete Symphonies EMI/72941 (1979) Mahler: Symphony No.3 Delos/3248 (1998) Mahler: Symphony No.3 Unicorn Kanchana/2006 (1970) Mahler: Symphonies, Nos. 1-10 Chandos/9572 (1991) Mahler: Symphony No3 Haenssler/93017 (1997) The Complete Symphonies & Orchestral Songs Deutsche Grammophon/459080 (1987) Mahler: Symphony No3 Titanic/252 (1998) Mahler: Symphony No. 1 & 3 London/443030 (1978) Schubert: Symphony No. 8 In B Minor/Mahler: Symphony No. 3 In C Minor Stradivarius/10051 (1960) Gustav Mahler 10 Symphonies Capriccio/49043 (1990) Mahler: Symphony Nos.3 & 10 Naxos/550525 (1994) Mahler: Symphony No.3, Lieder Sony/47576 (1961) Mahler: Symphony No.3, Ruckert-Lieder CBS/44553 (1987) Mahler: Symphony No.3 Sony/60250 (1997) Mahler: Symphony No. 3 / Lieder Sony/61831 (1961) Bernstein Conducts Mahler CBS/42196 Mahler: Symphony No. 3 in D minor Vanguard Classics/4005 (1969) Mahler: Symphony No3 Harmonia Mundi/288111 (1994) Mahler: Symphony No. 3 / Adagio from Symphony No. 10 Tahra/101 (1960) Mahler: Symphony No.3 BBC/4004-7 (1969) Mahler: Symphony No. 3 London/414268 (1982) Carl Schuricht, Vol. 6 Archiphon/26/7 (1960) Historical Performances Arkadia/557 (1956) Mahler: Symphony No3 Chandos/9117 (1991) Mahler: Symphony No3 Vanguard/22 (1969) Bernstein: Symphony No4 Deutsche Grammophon/459081 (1987) Gustav Mahler: Symphony No. 3 In D Minor Chandos/8970 (1991) Mahler: Symphony No.3/Kindertotenlieder Sony/42403 (1985) Gustav Mahler: Symphonies Nos. 3 & 6 Philips/434909 (1993) Gustav Mahler: Symphony No1 EMI/64471 (1981) Gustav Mahler: The Symphonies RCA/276012 (1995) Mahler:10 Symphonien Grammophon/429042 (1967) Pierre Boulez Conducts Artists/24 Mahler: Symphony No3 Sony/52579 Gustav Mahler: Symphony No5 Arkadia/28 Mahler: Symphony No3 Canyon Classics/256 Mahler: Symphony No3 FNAC/592329 Mahler: Symphony No3 Enterprise/1000 Mahler: 10 Symphonies Deutsche Grammophon/435162 (1987) Mahler: Symphony No3 Supraphon/111972 Mahler: Symphony No1 Arkadia/593 Mahler: Symphony No3 CBS/42403 Mahler: Symphony No3 Vanguard/4005 Scherchen Conducts Mahler Tahra/147 (1960) Mahler: Symphony No.3/Romeo Et Juliette FED/024 Mahler: Symphony No3 Berlin/21212 (1983) Mahler: Symphony No3 LV/1000 (1956) Mahler: Symphonies Nos. 1-10 Sony/48198 (1985) Mahler: The Symphonies Philips/442050 (1966) Mahler: Symphony Nos.1-9 Vanguard/2030 (1969) Albums with Excerpt Performances and/or Arrangements of this Work Mahler: Symphony Nos.3-6 Naxos/552243 Mahler: Symphony No.3 Deutsche Grammophon/410715 Orchestral Excerpts For Trombone Summit/143 (1993) Greatest Hits: The Chorus Sony/62684 Orchestral Excerpts For Trumpet Summit/144 Mahler: Symphonie No.3 in D Minor Deutsche Grammophon/427328 (1987) Britten: The Collection BBC/4404 (1969) Spohr: Violin Concerto Nos.7 & 12 Marco Polo/220406 (1996) Bride of the Wind (Soundtrack) Deutsche Grammophon/69584 Mahler For Dummies EMI/66266 Tomita Live In New York RCA/7717 -----Original Message----- From: briar@chicagonet.net [mailto:briar@chicagonet.net] Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 10:50 AM To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Mahler 3 Howard Smith wrote: > You have all mentioned one of my favourites. The LSO recording > features Denis Wick conducted by Jascha Horenstein. (Art mentioned > Colin Davis with this combination. I would check out his Berlioz > cycles: one from the 60s - very well liked and another from the last > 2 or 3 years.) I also like both Bernstein's with the NYPO (Herman and > Alessi) and recently purchased two others: The Hall under Sir John > Barbirolli (I think the trombone soloist must be Maisie Ringham, not > absolutely sure though. The booklet doesn't say.) and Simon Rattle > conducting the CBSO (Philip Harrison). All great but very different. > The Rattle has some interesting idiosyncrasies in places. I > would like to hear the Philharmonia under Sinopoli (with, I think, > Dudley Bright, now with the LSO, on trombone. He is an amazing > player.) At present it is only available in a reissue of the whole > cycle. I was for a short time somewhat obsessed with hearing different versions of this symphony, though more for the finale than the trb. solo. I've kinda gotten over it by now. On UseNet at alt.music.recordings.classical (I think ...), if one asks about versions of a particular work, it's normal for every possible recorded version of a work to be mentioned by someone. So far, only a few Mahler 3's have been omitted: Concergebouw/Haitink, VPO/Abbado, for instance. Maazel has one, too. The Levine/CSO version from 1973 is my favorite, probably owing to the fact that it's the first one I really delved into deeply. The later NYP/Bernstein version is quite good, especially the trb solo, but is also distorted in ways that bother me. There's a surprisingly good version with the Danish Radio Symphony Orchestra/Leif Segerstam, if I remember correctly. Everybody has a favorite, and there's a lot from which to choose. It's impossible to establish one definitive version, even if that were a worthy goal. Robert Holland Briar Music Press briar@chicagonet.net ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 14:01:02 -0500 From: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL To: robertbyers@mediaone.net, trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: RE: I can't whistle. Bill can. Can you? Message-ID: <81F62454EA21B94EA95517180D7303730243F86D@lee-is-102.lee.army.mil> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1B589.F233C2B0" I can't whistle, and it is not for lack of trying. I would love to be able to do it, but all I can do is squeak out a couple of weak midrange notes, no volume or technique, while my little brother can do Carnival of Venice, Flight of the Bumblebee, etc.Ê I don't know if it is related, but I also can't dance. Well, I think I can, but my wife and daughters insist I'm mistaken, and they forbid me to try. They do claim that I move fairly gracefully while playing trombone; while I don't sit still, I certainly don't move like Dave Taylor, who must wear out a pair of pants per performance. To my utter embarassment, my wife insisted on asking Dave if he could dance, and he admitted it was not his thing, either.Ê So I guess I can't whistle like Bill Watrous, but I can dance like Dave Taylor, I'm halfway there! -----Original Message----- From: Bob Byers [mailto:robertbyers@mediaone.net] Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 2:36 AM To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: I can't whistle. Bill can. Can you? I have never been able to whistle, and I used to blame it on having developed such an extreme trombone embouchure that it just wouldn't bend into the correct whistle embouchure. But then I heard Bill Watrous whistle a tune, accompanied by full combo, in front of a room full of trombonists at an ITW (Nashville, back in the late 80's I think it was). Man could he whistle! Complete with typically Watrous-like virtuosity, and even a few choruses for improv! His whistling stands on its own, right up there with his trombone playing. Boy did that blow the wind out of my sorry sail-of-an-excuse for not being able to whistle! So, I've wondered ever since whether others have whistled as easy as Bill, or have struggled like me. And whether the lack of whistle skills indicates a deficiency in embouchure development or practice habits. Opinions anyone? BTW If I had to characterize my own playing, I'd say I have a good sound with strong embouchure - strong in terms of producing a decent sound and providing very good range (at least, for the weekend warrior I've become) and endurance - but not particularly flexible .. flexibility has been one of my downfalls, even though flexibility studies have always had a prominent place on my warm-up, practice and warm-down regimens. Also, I've stuck to the same beloved mouthpiece for about 14 years, and the one prior to that for 10 years - always wanted to avoid giving my embouchure any chance for confusion - but perhaps the flip side of that is you don't develop an ability to form any embouchure other than the one you use every day. -Bob, Andover, MA USA ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 19:30:39 -0000 From: "smith.howard" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Which is better? Message-ID: <001b01c1b58e$16b61620$a7eaff3e@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In an idle moment I asked this question of the internet. It is just for fun. http://b4ta.com/chthonic/better.asp?w1=bach&w2=conn Cheers Howard ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 19:34:45 -0000 From: "smith.howard" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Mahler 3 Message-ID: <002901c1b58e$a8d1f4c0$a7eaff3e@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is the definitive answer :) http://b4ta.com/chthonic/better.asp?w1=alessi&w2=wick Howard ----- Original Message ----- From: Holst, Bill To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 6:56 PM Subject: RE: Mahler 3 > There is no shortage of recordings. My personal favorite is Alessi's. Here > is a list... > > Albums with Complete Performances of this Work > > Mahler: Symphony No.3 Denon/7828 (1985) > Mahler: Symphonies Nos. 3 & 4 EMI/74297 (1979) > Mahler: Symphony No3 EMI/56657 (1997) > Mahler:SYMPHONY 3 Telarc/80481 (1998) > Mahler: Symphony No.3 Arte Nova/34046 (1995) > Mahler: Symphony No. 3 Teldec/82354 (1999) > Mahler: Symphony No. 3 BBC/4004 (1969) > Mahler: The Symphonies London/430805-14 (1982) > Mahler: Symphony 3 & 1 RCA/634692 (1962) > Mahler: Symphonies 3 & 8 Supraphon/111972-2033 (1981) > Mahler: Symphonies Supraphon/1860 (1981) > Mitropoulos Conducts Mahler Music & Arts/1021 (1956) > Mahler: Symphonies 3 & 8 Living Stage/34702 (1956) > Mahler: Complete Symphonies EMI/72941 (1979) > Mahler: Symphony No.3 Delos/3248 (1998) > Mahler: Symphony No.3 Unicorn Kanchana/2006 (1970) > Mahler: Symphonies, Nos. 1-10 Chandos/9572 (1991) > Mahler: Symphony No3 Haenssler/93017 (1997) > The Complete Symphonies & Orchestral Songs Deutsche Grammophon/459080 > (1987) > Mahler: Symphony No3 Titanic/252 (1998) > Mahler: Symphony No. 1 & 3 London/443030 (1978) > Schubert: Symphony No. 8 In B Minor/Mahler: Symphony No. 3 In C Minor > Stradivarius/10051 (1960) > Gustav Mahler 10 Symphonies Capriccio/49043 (1990) > Mahler: Symphony Nos.3 & 10 Naxos/550525 (1994) > Mahler: Symphony No.3, Lieder Sony/47576 (1961) > Mahler: Symphony No.3, Ruckert-Lieder CBS/44553 (1987) > Mahler: Symphony No.3 Sony/60250 (1997) > Mahler: Symphony No. 3 / Lieder Sony/61831 (1961) > Bernstein Conducts Mahler CBS/42196 > Mahler: Symphony No. 3 in D minor Vanguard Classics/4005 (1969) > Mahler: Symphony No3 Harmonia Mundi/288111 (1994) > Mahler: Symphony No. 3 / Adagio from Symphony No. 10 Tahra/101 (1960) > Mahler: Symphony No.3 BBC/4004-7 (1969) > Mahler: Symphony No. 3 London/414268 (1982) > Carl Schuricht, Vol. 6 Archiphon/26/7 (1960) > Historical Performances Arkadia/557 (1956) > Mahler: Symphony No3 Chandos/9117 (1991) > Mahler: Symphony No3 Vanguard/22 (1969) > Bernstein: Symphony No4 Deutsche Grammophon/459081 (1987) > Gustav Mahler: Symphony No. 3 In D Minor Chandos/8970 (1991) > Mahler: Symphony No.3/Kindertotenlieder Sony/42403 (1985) > Gustav Mahler: Symphonies Nos. 3 & 6 Philips/434909 (1993) > Gustav Mahler: Symphony No1 EMI/64471 (1981) > Gustav Mahler: The Symphonies RCA/276012 (1995) > Mahler:10 Symphonien Grammophon/429042 (1967) > Pierre Boulez Conducts Artists/24 > Mahler: Symphony No3 Sony/52579 > Gustav Mahler: Symphony No5 Arkadia/28 > Mahler: Symphony No3 Canyon Classics/256 > Mahler: Symphony No3 FNAC/592329 > Mahler: Symphony No3 Enterprise/1000 > Mahler: 10 Symphonies Deutsche Grammophon/435162 (1987) > Mahler: Symphony No3 Supraphon/111972 > Mahler: Symphony No1 Arkadia/593 > Mahler: Symphony No3 CBS/42403 > Mahler: Symphony No3 Vanguard/4005 > Scherchen Conducts Mahler Tahra/147 (1960) > Mahler: Symphony No.3/Romeo Et Juliette FED/024 > Mahler: Symphony No3 Berlin/21212 (1983) > Mahler: Symphony No3 LV/1000 (1956) > Mahler: Symphonies Nos. 1-10 Sony/48198 (1985) > Mahler: The Symphonies Philips/442050 (1966) > Mahler: Symphony Nos.1-9 Vanguard/2030 (1969) > > Albums with Excerpt Performances and/or Arrangements of this Work > > Mahler: Symphony Nos.3-6 Naxos/552243 > Mahler: Symphony No.3 Deutsche Grammophon/410715 > Orchestral Excerpts For Trombone Summit/143 (1993) > Greatest Hits: The Chorus Sony/62684 > Orchestral Excerpts For Trumpet Summit/144 > Mahler: Symphonie No.3 in D Minor Deutsche Grammophon/427328 (1987) > Britten: The Collection BBC/4404 (1969) > Spohr: Violin Concerto Nos.7 & 12 Marco Polo/220406 (1996) > Bride of the Wind (Soundtrack) Deutsche Grammophon/69584 > Mahler For Dummies EMI/66266 > Tomita Live In New York RCA/7717 > > -----Original Message----- > From: briar@chicagonet.net [mailto:briar@chicagonet.net] > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 10:50 AM > To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu > Subject: Re: Mahler 3 > > > > Howard Smith wrote: > > > You have all mentioned one of my favourites. The LSO recording > > features Denis Wick conducted by Jascha Horenstein. (Art mentioned > > Colin Davis with this combination. I would check out his Berlioz > > cycles: one from the 60s - very well liked and another from the last > > 2 or 3 years.) I also like both Bernstein's with the NYPO (Herman and > > Alessi) and recently purchased two others: The Hall under Sir John > > Barbirolli (I think the trombone soloist must be Maisie Ringham, not > > absolutely sure though. The booklet doesn't say.) and Simon Rattle > > conducting the CBSO (Philip Harrison). All great but very different. > > The Rattle has some interesting idiosyncrasies in places. I > > would like to hear the Philharmonia under Sinopoli (with, I think, > > Dudley Bright, now with the LSO, on trombone. He is an amazing > > player.) At present it is only available in a reissue of the whole > > cycle. > > I was for a short time somewhat obsessed with hearing different versions of > this symphony, though more for the finale than the trb. solo. I've kinda > gotten over it by now. > > On UseNet at alt.music.recordings.classical (I think ...), if one asks about > versions of a particular work, it's normal for every possible recorded > version of a work to be mentioned by someone. So far, only a few Mahler 3's > have been omitted: Concergebouw/Haitink, VPO/Abbado, for instance. Maazel > has one, too. > > The Levine/CSO version from 1973 is my favorite, probably owing to the fact > that it's the first one I really delved into deeply. The later NYP/Bernstein > version is quite good, especially the trb solo, but is also distorted in > ways that bother me. There's a surprisingly good version with the Danish > Radio Symphony Orchestra/Leif Segerstam, if I remember correctly. > > Everybody has a favorite, and there's a lot from which to choose. It's > impossible to establish one definitive version, even if that were a worthy > goal. > > Robert Holland > Briar Music Press > briar@chicagonet.net ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 14:38:01 -0500 (EST) From: "Dr. Carole Nowicke, Applied Health Science" To: "smith.howard" Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Which is better? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 14 Feb 2002, smith.howard wrote: > In an idle moment I asked this question of the internet. It is just for fun. > > http://b4ta.com/chthonic/better.asp?w1=bach&w2=conn It'll also tell you that York is 100% better than B&S. Actually York beat Chocolate--by 90%. It also says Chocolate is better than Greenhoe but Gary's catching up on Rutabagas and Turnips. Gary shows better results against turnips than chocolate does. Carole Nowicke ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 13:54:46 -0600 From: "Tom C. Shaddox" To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Whistlers, and their mothers Message-ID: <3C6C1606.1BA052E1@fnc.fujitsu.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob, You can't whistle? But - what do you do when the band plays "Colonel Bogey"??? I'm not much of a trombone player, but I can whistle "Stars and Stripes" (incl. the pic part, w/ trills). The other day (and with a slight head cold) I whistled "The Minstrel Boy" through in two note harmony, which I found startling and unexplained. Need a good sound concept for your whistling? I've always enjoyed Bing Crosby's unaffected whistling, and his ability to naturally integrate it into his singing. I gotta go practice, Tom Shaddox, 9th chair tenor ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 12:07:07 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Orchestras in trouble? was instrument evolution Message-ID: <20020214200707.57548.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This isn't exactly what I was looking for, but it's good nonetheless...Gabe -------------------------------------- Remarks from Henry Fogel, President, Chicago Symphony Orchestra 1998 Honoree at the Columbia College / Paul Berger Arts Entrepreneurship Awards I find myself particularly touched by this award at this time in our country. If you were to believe some of the press reports that have been written in the past few years, you would conclude that symphony orchestras in America are, if not yet dead, certainly in the final throes of a near fatal disease. It seems that almost every week, the New York Times issues another medical bulletin proclaiming orchestras in grave condition. For Columbia College to choose to recognize someone who manages one of these ill dinosaurs from another era is an act of some courage, and I appreciate it. Since I have been given this forum, I would like for a few minutes to examine the patient, and perhaps give my own prognosis. My conclusion won't surprise you – so I'll state it first, and then go backwards from there to explain. The orchestra in America is not dead – and not even gravely ill. It is, as an institution, going through a period of change, and change is difficult for everyone – so these changes are causing some temporary ups and downs, but I believe firmly that the future for orchestras will in fact be far more vital than in fact the past has been – and the past has not been exactly a failure. The truth is that the history of orchestras, as with many of the arts in America by the way, is a past that is marked by some practices that can be called elitist in the worst sense of that word. That word – “elitism” – is one that has been hurled at symphony orchestras rather liberally from many directions over many years. Different people mean different things when they use it; but most of the time, what they mean is not particularly complimentary. Some defenders have said “of course we're elite – the music we play is music that requires a certain degree of understanding and knowledge, and it is okay to be considered elite”. Well, I beg to differ. For much of our history, those who controlled our major artistic organizations actually took steps to insure that they remained the property of an elite few – generally those who were from the upper classes of society, and those who were made to feel “on the inside”. We produced program notes that referred to “the retrograde inversion of the secondary fugal theme heard in contrapuntal distinction to the opposing thematic motif stated by the second bassoon” – notes, in other words, that no one could understand. We actively kept non-whites off our stages. Note that it was 1955 – not that long ago – before Marion Anderson was permitted to break the color barrier at the Metropolitan Opera, and that Rudolf Bing did that over the expressed opposition of the Met's Board of Directors – the thought leaders of New York City at that time. In the 1950s and even 60s, talented black musicians were told, openly told, by the managements of major orchestras that we didn't take “colored” folks into our orchestras. Classical music is a strange field. It is one, that for much of its history in this country actively intimidated people – sneered at them if, heaven forbid, they should actually applaud at the wrong time (despite the fact that it is historically inaccurate to withhold applause between all movements of all symphonies) – that was a way of showing who was “in the know”, who was “on the inside”, and who was not. Music and “high society” went hand in hand in establishing a somewhat repulsive kind of class system that made those on the inside feel superior. You can't feel superior with out someone to feel superior to! But the times, they are a changing. And as orchestras come to grips with this change, it is going to make them healthier institutions – institutions that have meaning and relevance to a wider range of the societies that they serve. And, in keeping with the spirit of this award, I believe the changes that orchestras will need to make are changes that will require an entrepreneurial spirit – the days of sitting back, presenting concerts for people who want to come to them are over. About six or seven years ago, I made the following observation at an annual meeting of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra: If a person from Mars came down to Earth and observed the CSO for a full year, and from that observation drew up a mission statement for the organization, based on what we did as opposed to what we said, the mission statement would read as follows: “The Chicago Symphony Orchestra is an organization that plays, at the highest level possible, the music written for Western Symphony Orchestra. It plays it for people who already like it, and can afford its ticket prices.” I pointed out that, that was not a mission statement of which we would be proud. I made that point to help begin an internal process of examination – one that is going on in all orchestras now – as to how we can, in fact, make our orchestras mean something to all of the communities that make up a major city like Chicago. This doesn't mean, of course, that every person is going to fall in love with Beethoven symphonies. But I do believe – passionately and deeply – that the music we play can, in fact, have meaning and relevance to many more people than it does; that we have to proactively remove the barriers that people perceive are in the way for them to listen to and be transformed by our music. And I believe, that the orchestras of the twenty first century are all, in their own ways, going to be seeking ways to do the same thing. That underlying philosophy is what is behind the CSO's investment of $110 million in our future, and in the future of Chicago, in the creation of the Symphony Center. We are investing over $3 million in a music learning center – an audio-visual interactive music learning center that I have described as “A Museum of Science and Industry” for music – a place where people, young and old, can become more familiar with, and more comfortable with, our music – where they will learn of the importance of music in human life, and the links between the musics of different cultures. It is our belief that by creating a comfortable, active-round-the-clock center for music in Chicago, we can make the Chicago Symphony Orchestra experience a vitality and centrality to the lives of Chicagoans beyond what it already has achieved. We intend to work closely with Mayor Daley and the team he has put together to run the Chicago schools, in order to bring back a level of music education that hasn't existed for many years now. If a scientific study came out that said it can be documented that drinking two glasses of grapefruit juice every day would improve student test scores in all academic areas by 25 – 40%, there would be no question: parents and schools would feed the students grapefruit juice. Well – there have been such tests. Learning music has been shown to do just that – and to improve creative thinking and problem solving too. This has been documented over and over again; and yet we still treat this as a frill in our education system. I believe that we who are involved in the arts must take the lead in making this a meaningful part of the school curriculum again, and the CSO will do that. As I said, I am touched by this award, and grateful for it – not so much for myself, but because I see it as a statement of faith in the importance of music and the arts as a crucial part of what defines humanity, what defines a society. And, I see it as a statement that there is an important role for the entrepreneurial spirit in the direction of our major artistic organizations. I promise to do everything I can in the future to live up to the responsibility that I believe such an award puts on its recipient. Thank you. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 14:21:44 -0600 From: Mearl Danner To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Which is better? Message-ID: <24413174.1013696504@[172.31.2.21]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Danner 76% Alessi 24% Obviously NOT trombone related (;-) In an idle moment I asked this question of the internet. It is just for fun. http://b4ta.com/chthonic/better.asp?w1=bach&w2=conn Mearl Danner Systems Programmer Samford University jmdanner@samford.edu www.samford.edu ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 12:25:56 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: very encouraging orchestra statistics Message-ID: <20020214202556.14251.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I hope you all don't mind indulging me here again...I just want to present the optimistic viewpoint in opposition to the accepted wisdom...this is from the American Symphony Orchestra League Gabe Quick Orchestra Facts From the 1999 -- 2000 Season Income Continues to Increase More than Expenses: Approximate total income to American orchestras (extrapolated for the industry) was $1,267,110,000 in 1999-2000, an increase of 16.5% ($179.8 million) since 1997-98. Total expenses were $1,182,646,000 in 1999-2000, an increase of 9.8% ($105.9 million) over the 1997-98 season. Total income exceeded expenses by about $84.5 million - an industry operating surplus that is more than seven times greater than it was two seasons before. Income from Ticket Sales Continues to Go Up: $481.5 million in 1999-2000, up 11% ($48.6 million) from two years before (1997-98 season), and 52.8% ($166.3 million) more than 1990-91. Giving by Individuals Continues to Go Up: $188.5 million in 1999-2000, a 21.5% ($33.4 million) increase over the 1997-98 season, and 92.4% ($90.5 million) more than in 1990-91. In less than a decade, individual giving has nearly doubled. Giving by Businesses and Corporate Foundations is Up: $93.6 million in 1999-2000, a 1% ($0.7 million) increase over 1997-98, and 36.5% ($25 million) more than in 1990-91. While corporate giving has not kept pace with individual giving, it has still increased by more than one-third in nine years. More Surpluses, Fewer Deficits: The number of orchestras reporting deficits is nearly half of what it was in 1990-91. In 1999-2000 (actual reporting, not extrapolated), 71% of orchestras surveyed reported surpluses, while 29% reported deficits. In 1990-91, 51% reported surpluses, while 49% reported deficits. The combined surplus in 1999-2000 for 109 orchestras providing complete data over nine years was $12 million. Nine years before, the same orchestras reported a combined survey deficit* of $26.7 million.** Concert Attendance Remains Steady: Extrapolated for the entire industry in 1999-2000, an estimated 32 million seats were filled -- about the same as for the last four seasons -- and almost 5 million more than in 1990-91. Total Number of Concerts Increased: Actual reported number of concerts for 203 orchestras (not extrapolated) rose to 18,067 in 1999-2000, 5% more than in 1997-98 and 16.5% more than in 1990-91 (does not include concerts by foreign orchestras touring the U.S.). *Using those with deficits only; not set against those with surplus for a combined survey figure. **This figure is revised from a previous reported $20.8 million. All figures used are extrapolated to the 1,800 orchestras in the U.S., except as noted. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 13:42:52 -0800 From: "Gary Maxwell" To: "smith.howard" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Mahler 3/Better than Message-ID: <659829993461CA49942D1312DE3436918309CE@edcenmail1.bcsd.k12.ca.us> Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1B5A0.8DFF505E" Guess I better sell my big horn!Ê Maxwell 80% Dorsey 20% -----Original Message----- From: smith.howard [mailto:smith.howard@ntlworld.com] Sent: Thu 2/14/2002 11:34 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Cc:ÊÊÊÊ Subject: Re: Mahler 3 Here is the definitive answer :) http://b4ta.com/chthonic/better.asp?w1=alessi&w2=wick Howard ----- Original Message ----- From: Holst, Bill To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 6:56 PM Subject: RE: Mahler 3 > There is no shortage of recordings. My personal favorite is Alessi's. Here > is a list... > > Albums with Complete Performances of this Work > > Mahler: Symphony No.3 Denon/7828 (1985) > Mahler: Symphonies Nos. 3 & 4 EMI/74297 (1979) > Mahler: Symphony No3 EMI/56657 (1997) > Mahler:SYMPHONY 3 Telarc/80481 (1998) > Mahler: Symphony No.3 Arte Nova/34046 (1995) > Mahler: Symphony No. 3 Teldec/82354 (1999) > Mahler: Symphony No. 3 BBC/4004 (1969) > Mahler: The Symphonies London/430805-14 (1982) > Mahler: Symphony 3 & 1 RCA/634692 (1962) > Mahler: Symphonies 3 & 8 Supraphon/111972-2033 (1981) > Mahler: Symphonies Supraphon/1860 (1981) > Mitropoulos Conducts Mahler Music & Arts/1021 (1956) > Mahler: Symphonies 3 & 8 Living Stage/34702 (1956) > Mahler: Complete Symphonies EMI/72941 (1979) > Mahler: Symphony No.3 Delos/3248 (1998) > Mahler: Symphony No.3 Unicorn Kanchana/2006 (1970) > Mahler: Symphonies, Nos. 1-10 Chandos/9572 (1991) > Mahler: Symphony No3 Haenssler/93017 (1997) > The Complete Symphonies & Orchestral Songs Deutsche Grammophon/459080 > (1987) > Mahler: Symphony No3 Titanic/252 (1998) > Mahler: Symphony No. 1 & 3 London/443030 (1978) > Schubert: Symphony No. 8 In B Minor/Mahler: Symphony No. 3 In C Minor > Stradivarius/10051 (1960) > Gustav Mahler 10 Symphonies Capriccio/49043 (1990) > Mahler: Symphony Nos.3 & 10 Naxos/550525 (1994) > Mahler: Symphony No.3, Lieder Sony/47576 (1961) > Mahler: Symphony No.3, Ruckert-Lieder CBS/44553 (1987) > Mahler: Symphony No.3 Sony/60250 (1997) > Mahler: Symphony No. 3 / Lieder Sony/61831 (1961) > Bernstein Conducts Mahler CBS/42196 > Mahler: Symphony No. 3 in D minor Vanguard Classics/4005 (1969) > Mahler: Symphony No3 Harmonia Mundi/288111 (1994) > Mahler: Symphony No. 3 / Adagio from Symphony No. 10 Tahra/101 (1960) > Mahler: Symphony No.3 BBC/4004-7 (1969) > Mahler: Symphony No. 3 London/414268 (1982) > Carl Schuricht, Vol. 6 Archiphon/26/7 (1960) > Historical Performances Arkadia/557 (1956) > Mahler: Symphony No3 Chandos/9117 (1991) > Mahler: Symphony No3 Vanguard/22 (1969) > Bernstein: Symphony No4 Deutsche Grammophon/459081 (1987) > Gustav Mahler: Symphony No. 3 In D Minor Chandos/8970 (1991) > Mahler: Symphony No.3/Kindertotenlieder Sony/42403 (1985) > Gustav Mahler: Symphonies Nos. 3 & 6 Philips/434909 (1993) > Gustav Mahler: Symphony No1 EMI/64471 (1981) > Gustav Mahler: The Symphonies RCA/276012 (1995) > Mahler:10 Symphonien Grammophon/429042 (1967) > Pierre Boulez Conducts Artists/24 > Mahler: Symphony No3 Sony/52579 > Gustav Mahler: Symphony No5 Arkadia/28 > Mahler: Symphony No3 Canyon Classics/256 > Mahler: Symphony No3 FNAC/592329 > Mahler: Symphony No3 Enterprise/1000 > Mahler: 10 Symphonies Deutsche Grammophon/435162 (1987) > Mahler: Symphony No3 Supraphon/111972 > Mahler: Symphony No1 Arkadia/593 > Mahler: Symphony No3 CBS/42403 > Mahler: Symphony No3 Vanguard/4005 > Scherchen Conducts Mahler Tahra/147 (1960) > Mahler: Symphony No.3/Romeo Et Juliette FED/024 > Mahler: Symphony No3 Berlin/21212 (1983) > Mahler: Symphony No3 LV/1000 (1956) > Mahler: Symphonies Nos. 1-10 Sony/48198 (1985) > Mahler: The Symphonies Philips/442050 (1966) > Mahler: Symphony Nos.1-9 Vanguard/2030 (1969) > > Albums with Excerpt Performances and/or Arrangements of this Work > > Mahler: Symphony Nos.3-6 Naxos/552243 > Mahler: Symphony No.3 Deutsche Grammophon/410715 > Orchestral Excerpts For Trombone Summit/143 (1993) > Greatest Hits: The Chorus Sony/62684 > Orchestral Excerpts For Trumpet Summit/144 > Mahler: Symphonie No.3 in D Minor Deutsche Grammophon/427328 (1987) > Britten: The Collection BBC/4404 (1969) > Spohr: Violin Concerto Nos.7 & 12 Marco Polo/220406 (1996) > Bride of the Wind (Soundtrack) Deutsche Grammophon/69584 > Mahler For Dummies EMI/66266 > Tomita Live In New York RCA/7717 > > -----Original Message----- > From: briar@chicagonet.net [mailto:briar@chicagonet.net] > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 10:50 AM > To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu > Subject: Re: Mahler 3 > > > > Howard Smith wrote: > > > You have all mentioned one of my favourites. The LSO recording > > features Denis Wick conducted by Jascha Horenstein. (Art mentioned > > Colin Davis with this combination. I would check out his Berlioz > > cycles: one from the 60s - very well liked and another from the last > > 2 or 3 years.) I also like both Bernstein's with the NYPO (Herman and > > Alessi) and recently purchased two others: The Hall under Sir John > > Barbirolli (I think the trombone soloist must be Maisie Ringham, not > > absolutely sure though. The booklet doesn't say.) and Simon Rattle > > conducting the CBSO (Philip Harrison). All great but very different. > > The Rattle has some interesting idiosyncrasies in places. I > > would like to hear the Philharmonia under Sinopoli (with, I think, > > Dudley Bright, now with the LSO, on trombone. He is an amazing > > player.) At present it is only available in a reissue of the whole > > cycle. > > I was for a short time somewhat obsessed with hearing different versions of > this symphony, though more for the finale than the trb. solo. I've kinda > gotten over it by now. > > On UseNet at alt.music.recordings.classical (I think ...), if one asks about > versions of a particular work, it's normal for every possible recorded > version of a work to be mentioned by someone. So far, only a few Mahler 3's > have been omitted: Concergebouw/Haitink, VPO/Abbado, for instance. Maazel > has one, too. > > The Levine/CSO version from 1973 is my favorite, probably owing to the fact > that it's the first one I really delved into deeply. The later NYP/Bernstein > version is quite good, especially the trb solo, but is also distorted in > ways that bother me. There's a surprisingly good version with the Danish > Radio Symphony Orchestra/Leif Segerstam, if I remember correctly. > > Everybody has a favorite, and there's a lot from which to choose. It's > impossible to establish one definitive version, even if that were a worthy > goal. > > Robert Holland > Briar Music Press > briar@chicagonet.net ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 17:12:33 -0500 From: Randy Campora To: "smith.howard" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Mahler 3 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020214165646.024bc610@pop3.norton.antivirus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed One of the most amazing Mahler 3s, in terms of all around performance, is in a recently released box set by the Chicago Symphony, including the radio broadcast of the very first series of concerts on which the CSO played Mahler 3 in the orchestra's history. I believe the performance was from 1963? Not sure of the exact date. The conductor is Jean Martinon. It sounds like Jay Friedman, so I'm guessing it was in the first couple of years of his tenure in the orchestra. The strings are magnificent, especially lower strings, Herseth sounds like he just lept off a cloud to come down and play the piece (really, it's worth the admission price just to hear him) and the interpretation will dispel any notions of what you might think a French conductor would do with Mahler 3. Jay's solo is shorter and choppier than he subsequently played it on later recordings. Only problem is this performance comes in a large commemorative boxed set, very expensive. My personal favorite in trombone terms alone, but not in overall terms, is the Alessi NYP recording--but there are many ways to skin this cat. It will be fun to see what future talented principal trombonists do with it. The Horenstein LSO Wick recording is one I had read an awful lot about, but when I bought it the overall level of brass playing turned me off--Wick's solo is good but the sound passes the breaking point on some occasions. I asked Barry Tuckwell about the LSO in the days he played there, and he said "you know, our brass section really was not very good back then, it made leaving the orchestra that much easier." This is not a swipe at the brass section, only to say that the present incarnation is so much the more wonderful than the LSO of that vintage even though a once in a lifetime player was leading the trombone section back in the 50s and 60s. If you want to hear Wick at his best, listen to a Phillip Jones Brass Ensemble LP of Hindemith's "Kozertmusik" and you will hear him play a small little solo in there that will just float your boat it's so beautiful. The Mahler 3 that I have wanted to buy but have not yet is the Utah--Alessi says that he has always used this as a starting point. I understand that when they recorded the piece it was basically an unknown element in the repertoire, and I want to hear what a talented trombonist does with it just by coming to it on its own terms and not as a "trombone cornerstone work" with lots of ideas floating around as to how to play the solo. Randy Campora Baltimore Symphony Orchestra ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 16:37:04 -0600 From: "Hal Starkey" To: "Trombone List" Subject: Re: Which is better? Message-ID: <001001c1b5a8$221020a0$b1e81d41@KSCABLE.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hmmm. Better check this out. http://b4ta.com/chthonic/better.asp?w1=trombone&w2=trumpet&u=&better=Tell+me %2C+we+need+to+know I'm not so sure of this site's credability. I think you may have really started something, Howard! Hal ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 17:43:50 -0500 From: Jim Ryon To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Mahler 3 Message-ID: <3C6C3DA6.7040809@desupernet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wait till the new Boulez/Vienna Phil recording is released.....J Ryon ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 16:40:17 -0600 From: "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" To: "'Tom.Shaddox@fnc.fujitsu.com'" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Whistlers, and their mothers Message-ID: <587F49FABBEDD411A68F00A0C9EA313B5FD0C7@dasmthkhn561.amedd.army.mil> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1B5A8.938C1950" Ha! Tom can you add multiphonics too like me! :-). This is how I taught myself to do it on the trombone. Although I seem to have lost the ability when I went to a larger bore. Rick Marple San Antonio TX -----Original Message----- From: Tom C. Shaddox [mailto:Tom.Shaddox@fnc.fujitsu.com] Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 1:55 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Re: Whistlers, and their mothers Bob, You can't whistle? But - what do you do when the band plays "Colonel Bogey"??? I'm not much of a trombone player, but I can whistle "Stars and Stripes" (incl. the pic part, w/ trills). The other day (and with a slight head cold) I whistled "The Minstrel Boy" through in two note harmony, which I found startling and unexplained. Need a good sound concept for your whistling? I've always enjoyed Bing Crosby's unaffected whistling, and his ability to naturally integrate it into his singing. I gotta go practice, Tom Shaddox, 9th chair tenor ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 17:49:38 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Final Boston Pops SuperBowl photos online Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I've just updated my Super Bowl Diary with the photos from my last roll of film, including shots of BSO/Pops players, backstage at the Super Dome and at the game itself. http://www.yeodoug.com/pops_patriots.html It still feels great in New England... -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 17:56:21 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: very encouraging orchestra statistics Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020214175448.00b57778@acticalc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 12:25 PM 2/14/2002 -0800, Gabriel Langfur wrote: I hope you all don't mind indulging me here again...I just want to present the optimistic viewpoint in opposition to the accepted wisdom...this is from the American Symphony Orchestra League Gabe Quick Orchestra Facts From the 1999 -- 2000 Season Income from Ticket Sales Continues to Go Up: $481.5 million in 1999-2000, up 11% ($48.6 million) from two years before (1997-98 season), and 52.8% ($166.3 million) more than 1990-91. I think we're all happy to see that. I wonder how reliable the statistics are, though. For example, in recent years, the Indianapolis Symphony Orchestra has taken to producing all sort of events -- under the ISO brand name -- that have little to do with the orchestra or symphonic music. Just one example is an outdoor concert called "Jazz on the Prairie" (or something like that). It is essentially a pick-up big band concert marketed to people who want to guzzle wine and get nostalgic. Since that is a pretty good description of me, I attended this last summer, and as far as I could tell, there wasn't a single member of the orchestra on the stage, but I'll bet dollars to donuts, those ticket sales are being included by the League. In that same venue, the ISO runs a bunch of other Las Vegas-style shows, and I'll bet those ticket sales show up to the League as symphony revenue. Don't get me wrong. I'm happy they are able to have a successful entertainment production company running under their not-for-profit if it helps them stay in the black. But if a lot of orchestra companies are doing this, then the League's numbers could be telling a misleading story. I guess the most telling statistic would be, how many orchestras are paying a full-time wage equivalent to what a full time plumber makes, and is this number going up or down? My sense is that it is going down, but maybe that is an invalid reading of what is happening. My 2 cents, Craig ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 18:16:13 -0500 From: "Thomas Smee" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Mahler 3 Message-ID: <454FC5BC266BDB4BBA26E5BBF2F73FEF11B7A8@torxchng1.dwpv.com> content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I agree with those who like Joe Alessi's Bernstein/NYP recording of Mahler 3. However, I heartily second Jim Scott's favourable comments about Gordon Sweeney's performances of Mahler 3. I have heard him do it twice since I moved to Toronto and the performances were just great (particularly the one in the mid '80s or thereabouts). He has a wonderful sound, which is big, but in a 'deep, rich and colourful' rather than 'wide' sense. Anyone who likes Pete Sullivan's sound will love Gordon's tone. A long time ago, I heard a tape of a broadcast of Glenn Dodson doing Mahler 3 in Philadelphia. At the time I heard it, it just knocked my socks off it was so good - it was incredibly strong in an unforced and easy sounding way. I think that was what Mahler had in mind. A friend of mine who was studying at Temple at the time heard all the live performances and was even more positive than I have just been about the quality of that performance. I would love to hear that again. As to newer commercial recordings, the relatively new LA Phil recording on Sony (not the Mehta one) is beautifully recorded and the whole performance is absolutely first rate. If I want to listen to the whole symphony (and we are musicians, aren't we), I like this one best. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 22:15:08 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: insurance, bach linkages, static Message-ID: <010d01c1b5b1$2302cef0$6f90fc3e@homel29g9mgyk9> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Gary Greenhoe" > Be sure to turn off the gas before you leave! Now you tell me! Just got back. Can't find the house. Oh, wait.... they've flown me to the wrong city. I'm confused. Which insurance policy do I claim on? Adrian ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:52:20 -0800 From: Peter Ellefson To: Subject: re: Mahler 3 Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I skimmed the my digest postings regarding favorite Mahler 3 recordings and was amazed at the variety of responses. My favorite---far and away---is the newer NYPhil/Bernstein on DG recorded in 1986 or 1987. The first time I heard Joe Alessi play that solo, I knew I had found what I was looking for. I had listened to most all of the recordings available to that point and the solo was scary. Even with many more recordings of that work available now, I still turn to that one as the most amazing solo on record. If you have never heard it---go to the library and check it out. Bernstein recorded it twice with the NYPhil---both to good reviews. I prefer the later one on DG because of Alessi's solo. Phil Smith ain't too shabby either. After that one, I also like the Cologne recording with Michael Mulcahy, Scottish National with Lance Green and Cincinnati with Pete Norton and Vienna/Abaddo with Rudy Josel. my $0.02 Peter Ellefson ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 18:44:41 -0600 From: "Hal Starkey" To: "Trombone List" Subject: Lindberg in Chicago Message-ID: <000f01c1b5b9$f4525c20$b1e81d41@KSCABLE.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Christian Lindberg will premiere Luciano Berio's SOLO with the Chicago Symphony next month. Click here and check it out. http://www.cso.org/sat_performdetail.taf?eventid=3102 Hope one of you gets to go. Hal ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 01:19:48 From: "Michael Clayville" To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Mahler 3 [utah] Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed How did I know that everyone would have an opinion on this topic? Anyway, in regards to the Utah/Abravanel recording... after hearing Joe Alessi make the same remark that Randy mentioned (about making all his students listen to this recording) I started hunting it down myself. After three years of searching I found it in an out of the way shop in Japan. (Go figure, couldn't find it at Tower but middle of nowhere Japan...) My thoughts on it... overall the performance is emotionally intense but unclean (rhythmic discrepancies, pitch problems, etc.), the strings/woodwinds sound good (not thrilled about some of the tone colors), the trumpets are great (esp. the posthorn, it's *very* "in the distance" and extremely musical), the horns are incredible (great tone, phrasing...) and finally what everyone is really interested in... Trombones: recorded rather oddly: levels sound rather lower than the rest of the ensemble but they are still quite present main point to mention: lack of sustain (not only in the trombones but throughout the ensemble/piece). But while notes are not really held to their full value there is no taper. It results in what I would characterize as some pretty choppy phrasing. Solos (Ned Meredith is the principal trombone, by the way): 1st solo: definite lack of sustain but like i said no taper subtle attacks (he never 'hammers' a note, its more like the German nachschlag (pretty sure I'm using the right term here)) uses vibrato throughout the solo and not just at notes before resolutions 2nd solo: rather quick tempo less legato than you would generally hear it performed now some really nice phrasing (echoing the second g-d towards the end of the solo, for instance) lack of sustain through the end ritard 3rd solo: holy pitch, batman (unison a's) extremely nice phrasing throughout (really nice subito piano after the turn toward the end) I know I can't really do it justice through words but I know for the longest time I was extremely interested in this performance because of the ringing endorsement from Joe and this is the best I can do for everyone here. Mike Clayville www.monumentalbrass.org _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 18:39:45 -0800 From: "Rod Ellard" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: very encouraging orchestra statistics Message-ID: <005101c1b5ca$0879b620$d2e494d1@lindascomp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Just one example is an outdoor concert called "Jazz on the Prairie" (or something like that). It is essentially a pick-up big band concert marketed to people who want to guzzle wine and get nostalgic.< Gosh, you sound as if it's a bad thing ... Rod ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 02:55:09 -0000 From: "smith.howard" To: "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Which is better? Message-ID: <002701c1b5cc$2e9ecf00$28ed68d5@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0024_01C1B5CC.2DD56480" I'm not sure how the site works exactly and I have no input, but the response to the questions is pretty instantaneous, so it can't be a matter of anything resembling votes. My guess is it does a quick search for the two key words and tots up the references it finds. Good clean fun anyway. ----- Original Message ----- From: Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston To: 'smith.howard' Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 10:36 PM Subject: RE: Which is better? Howard, if you have any input into this site, ask them to add the number of votes to the graph. If only 10 people voted that is one thing, if 10,000 voted, that's another! Rick Marple San Antonio TX -----Original Message----- From: smith.howard [mailto:smith.howard@ntlworld.com] Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 1:31 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Which is better? In an idle moment I asked this question of the internet. It is just for fun. http://b4ta.com/chthonic/better.asp?w1=bach&w2=conn Cheers Howard ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:57:47 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee To: Subject: Re: very encouraging orchestra statistics Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020214215636.01ea6170@acticalc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 06:39 PM 2/14/2002 -0800, Rod Ellard wrote: >Just one example is an outdoor concert called "Jazz on the Prairie" (or something like that). It is essentially a pick-up big band concert marketed to people who want to guzzle wine and get nostalgic.< Gosh, you sound as if it's a bad thing ... Rod Hey, I said I was there. :) Guzzling wine with nostalgia. Count me in. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 19:36:15 -0800 From: Gordon Cherry To: brass@lists.fsu.edu, trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Concerto for 2 Trumpets, Vivaldi/Brass Ensemble Music Message-ID: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_GUKcMFKkDtOy365VyIowdA)" Dear colleagues, CONCERTO for TWO TRUMPETS and 5 BRASS by Antonio Vivaldi. Newly transcribed for 5 part brass ensemble & 2 solo trumpets in the original key of C by Gordon Cherry, principal trombone of the Vancouver Symphony. Vivaldi's famous concerto for trumpet duo is for sale. The entire three movement Concerto in the original key features 2 dazzling trumpet parts as soloists. Feature your two star trumpeters as soloists in this exciting work. Price is $15.00 plus shipping (below are details) Parts are as follows: * two solo trumpets * two trumpets * horn * trombone * tuba * full scoreÊ This work can be performed with 2 trumpets and brass quintet or 2 trumpets and large brass ensemble. As a professional trombonist with a major orchestra for over 26 years, you can be assured of the highest quality with my transcription. My transcription is very tastefully done with detailed editing of phrasing and dynamics. This work is 10 minutes in length and requires advanced players on the solo parts and players between high intermediate and advanced on the accompaniment parts. Vivaldi's composition is magnificent. You are bidding on brand new printed parts. All parts and score are laser printed on 24 lb. brilliant white paper, however if you wish I can upload the arrangement to you via pdf file format using Adobe's free software, Acrobat Reader. If you don't have it already you can download load it free on Adobe's web site. Printing out this way saves you costs on shipping and valuable time. I accept personal checks, money orders, PayPal and eBay Online Payments as a payment method for this item. To find out more about eBay Online Payments by Billpoint. Please check out my feedback ratings on eBay and take a look at my other auctions. You won't be disappointed with this beautiful arrangement. Shipping cost by Canada Post is $2.50 air mail to North America, $3.50 internationally. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:59:29 -0600 From: "Jon Moeller" To: "Trombone List" Subject: RE: Which is better? Message-ID: <000601c1b5d5$2b6782b0$9401a8c0@Jon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Try the german name =) http://b4ta.com/chthonic/better.asp?w1=trombone&w2=trombi -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu] On Behalf Of Hal Starkey Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 4:37 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Re: Which is better? Hmmm. Better check this out. http://b4ta.com/chthonic/better.asp?w1=trombone&w2=trumpet&u=&better=Tel l+me %2C+we+need+to+know I'm not so sure of this site's credability. I think you may have really started something, Howard! Hal ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 23:48:32 EST From: BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com To: craig@acticalc.com, trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: very encouraging orchestra statistics Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Guzzleing wine with Nostalgia. Is that a new kind of cheese?? beldon wade ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 18:09:33 +0900 From: Joseph Green To: jscot@ucalgary.ca, trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Mahler 3 Message-ID: <3C6CD048.50C4@twics.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ?James, Is the Mulcahy/Cologne recording commercially available? I've been trying to find it for months! Joe Green PS. I thought the Vienna Philharmonic recently record it (with Ian Bousfield), but can't find that either. +++++++++++++++++ James Scott wrote: > Paul - > > There will certainly be a lot of disagreement on this topic, but along with > some of the recordings already mentioned, I also like Peter Norton's > w/Cincinnati, Michael Mulcahy's w/Cologne, and Carsten Svandberg's w/Danish > Radio Orch. > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 02:35:21 -0700 From: "Roger L. Karren" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Reynolds Instruments Message-ID: <000501c1b604$166f93a0$bde67b81@rlkarren> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ?Anybody know where I can find out more information about Reynolds instruments? For example: Model #'s w/Spec's. Company History (what happened to the Company?) Serial Number Dating I have two Contempora's (Bass and Tenor), sure would like to know a little bit more about them. This tenor sure pays, err... plays nice!... Thanks, Roger ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 07:58:51 -0500 From: sabutin To: Jimkinkella1@aol.com Cc: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Anything happening in NY? Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Hi all I'm going to be spending some time in New York sometime this/next month, and I was wondering if anyone out there could give me any info on anything I should check out; ie: used music/instrument shops, hip blues/jazz clubs (or blues/jazz jams!). I'm making a stop in Manhattan tomorrow, any local pulications I should pick up to check out the scene? any info is appreciated Jim Kinkella (shoulda bought stock in Guiness the day before my 21st birthday...) ================================================ Jim... ALWAYS something happening. Three places where you are sure to find great trombone playing are: 1-Birdland. On Sunday nights, Chico O'Farrill's Afro/Cuban Jazz Orchestra, on Mondays (Tuesdays?) Toshiko Akiyoshi's big band. 2-The Village Vanguard. Monday nights, The Vanguard Orchestra. 3-Time Cafe. Thursdays, the Mingus Big Band. Get the (free) Village Voice...all listings, all advertisements for clubs + concerts. Go to Dillon Music in Woodbridge, NJ (easy drive, easy train from Penn Station) for a great selection of used horns, New ones too, and mpces.... Have fun... S. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 08:25:36 -0500 From: "Dale J. Cruse" To: "'Trombones and related issues forum.'" Subject: One good reason to keep the trombones in the back row Message-ID: <000b01c1b624$4125f8d0$70d92444@union1.nj.home.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So this doesn't happen: Performer rolls off opera stage, stops show February 15, 2002 Posted: 4:54 AM EST (0954 GMT) http://www.cnn.com/2002/SHOWBIZ/Music/02/15/opera.incident.ap/index.html NEW YORK (AP) -- The Metropolitan Opera's premiere performance of Prokofiev's "War and Peace" got a little extra drama when a member of the cast fell off the stage into the orchestra pit, bringing the production to a halt for several minutes. The accident happened in the final scene of the 4-hour epic on Thursday night. Simon Deonarian, a non-singing extra who was playing a French grenadier, slipped and rolled off the steeply sloped stage. Francois Giuliani, director of press and public relations for the Met, said Deonarian landed in a net that had been erected just below the stage for the production. The performer, who was not hurt, then jumped into the orchestra pit. The performance resumed after it was determined Deonarian was uninjured. At the conclusion of the opera, the Met's general manager, Joseph Volpe, brought a smiling Deonarian out to center stage to loud applause from the relieved audience. "Our retreating French soldier lost his way in the snowstorm," Volpe said to laughter. Dale J. Cruse dale@dalecruse.com http://www.dalecruse.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 08:29:35 -0500 From: Brian French Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Lindberg in Chicago Message-ID: <3C6D0D3F.1030902@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My wife and I are flying up to hear this for our 3- year "date-iversary"! I'm soooo looking forward to it. I feel kinda cheated though, after finding out that he's doing it in Toronto this weekend along with the Leopold Mozart, which he's not doing in Chicago, presumeably because Michael Mulcahy played it last year. --Brian Hal Starkey wrote: Christian Lindberg will premiere Luciano Berio's SOLO with the Chicago Symphony next month. Click here and check it out. http://www.cso.org/sat_performdetail.taf?eventid=3102 Hope one of you gets to go. Hal ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 13:32:24 -0000 From: "keith.marr" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: very encouraging orchestra statistics Message-ID: <007a01c1b625$8b26b720$060986d9@tiny> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Your quite right. Nostalgia is a kind of cheese. Mind you, it's not as good is it was when I was a lad. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 4:48 AM Subject: Re: very encouraging orchestra statistics > Guzzleing wine with Nostalgia. > > Is that a new kind of cheese?? > > > beldon wade > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 08:45:22 EST From: JFBermann@aol.com To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Mahler Symphony No.3 Message-ID: <130.9692170.299e6af2@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_130.9692170.299e6af2_boundary" Two fabulous recordings, a matter of fact complete sets not mentioned. The London Philharmonic Klaus Tennstedt Conducting. Derek James, Solo Trombone on No. 3 ÊFABULOUS! EMI Label. The Netherlands Radio Philharmonic Edo de Waart Conducting. Pete Saunders?, Solo Trombone on No.3 ÊFABULOUS! RCA Victor Red Seal Label Jim Bermann ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 14:15:54 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Instrument design over the past 100 years or so Message-ID: <000b01c1b62b$5fce7760$098369d5@homel29g9mgyk9> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Aaron Roth" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Who knows an Ondes Martenot virtuoso? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are three such players in the British MU directory, tho' no indication of whether they are virtuosos or not. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Who has even heard of a Chapman stick? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nothing listed between Celtic Harp (9 players) and Charango (2 players with the same name. Brothers?) Are there any gigs for Chapman Stick? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The tenor trumpet may not count, though, as a few major composers have written for it (Stravinsky, for example). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How does a tenor trumpet differ from a bass trumpet? Adrian ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:27:29 -0500 From: "Dale J. Cruse" To: "'Trombones and related issues forum.'" Subject: RE: Instrument design over the past 100 years or so Message-ID: <001b01c1b62c$e6757c40$70d92444@union1.nj.home.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ah, the Chapman Stick! A totally cool instrument! In a nutshell, it's a 10-string guitar/bass hybrid that is played by tapping the fingers on the fingerboard, rather than a combination of tapping and plucking. Here's the website: www.stick.com It's also spawned a spinoff product: http://www.warrguitars.com Are there gigs for it? Not many, but yes! Currently all the live performances of Blue Man Group feature a Chapman Stick. Tony Levin and Trey Gunn continue to play the Stick in King Crimson as well. It's a really cool instrument - check one out when you get the chance! Dale J. Cruse dale@dalecruse.com http://www.dalecruse.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu] On Behalf Of Adrian Drover Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 9:16 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Re: Instrument design over the past 100 years or so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Who has even heard of a Chapman stick? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nothing listed between Celtic Harp (9 players) and Charango (2 players with the same name. Brothers?) Are there any gigs for Chapman Stick? ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:28:59 -0800 From: "Paul Hill" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Instrument design over the past 100 years or so Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0003_01C1B603.32AADC60" A bassist named Tony Levin does well with the Chapman Stick. Otherwise, I have only seen two other "stick" players...on different street corners in New Orleans (they were GOOD, too!)Ê- hoping folks would drop change into their open cases...sorry about that! Best Regards, Paul Paul Hill Bass Tbn Newport, RI ----- Original Message ----- From: Adrian Drover Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 9:15 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Re: Instrument design over the past 100 years or so From: "Aaron Roth" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Who knows an Ondes Martenot virtuoso? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are three such players in the British MU directory, tho' no indication of whether they are virtuosos or not. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Who has even heard of a Chapman stick? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nothing listed between Celtic Harp (9 players) and Charango (2 players with the same name. Brothers?) Are there any gigs for Chapman Stick? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The tenor trumpet may not count, though, as a few major composers have written for it (Stravinsky, for example). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How does a tenor trumpet differ from a bass trumpet? Adrian ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:32:55 -0500 From: sabutin To: glangfur@yahoo.com Cc: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: very encouraging orchestra statistics Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Thanks Gabe for all this information. If the Symphony Orchestra system wants to survive and continue to grow, one thing they all might consider is their real function. They are ostensibly about the performance of great Western European style symphonic music...but if they were to simply do that and nothing else, they would not survive financially. Thus they produce Pops concerts, children's concerts, etc.; they wind up supporting educational efforts up to and including conservatories, and they often are the basis for whole performing arts centers. One facet of this generally healthy attempt to preserve, perform and promote great music that MANY of the symphony orchestras are entirely missing is the American jazz idiom. Wynton Marsalis and Lincoln Center have proven that this can be a financially viable effort (although to my ears they have done so in a largely inferior way musically, relying on a cult of personality and a largely mediocre ensemble and repertoire instead of going for the gold of great music performed at the highest level by the best musicians available). Do the math, American large "jazz" ensemble vs. symphony orchestra. Roughly 20 musicians vs. about 100. Right there you save an enormous amount in salaries, touring, recording and music copying expenses, and administrative staff. At LEAST 1/5th of the cost of a symphony orchestra, right down the line. Probably less...less pork barreling possible w/a leaner system. W/proper scheduling and publicity, you would attract audiences of the same size as symphony audiences, paying about the same money per person. Maybe not as MANY people over a given year...although that might be disputed as well. (I mean, what do more real "people" enjoy in a visceral, musical, endorphin producing sense, Duke Ellington, Gil Evans and Chico O'Farrill or Beethoven, Brahms and Bartok? The audience is there, ready to be reached.) Same w/recordings,if done right. So...you have about 1/5th the outlay of money for the product, and yet get roughly the same return per performance. Talk about no-brainers!!! And yet the REAL "no-brainers" are the arts administrators who are missing this boat. The symphonies that are "in trouble" for WHATEVER reasons could be financially reinvigorated by simply starting serious "jazz" orchestras and programs.(I say "jazz" because I include many of the Caribbean/South American idioms as well. Great music, crowd pleasers and a whole new available audience as well.) Plus...if done right, this would be producing music on the same level of artistic intent and integrity as the symphonies. I mean, what is more artistic, the Boston Pops playing a Star Wars medley or a concert of the great Miles Davis/Gil Evans collaborations? Give me a break!!! The material is out there; there is great NEW material being produced all over the world, and there is a corps of players that number in the thousands (literally...there are more than three hundred world class players in NYC alone) that could easily staff these kinds of ensembles. If I went to someone running a business and said that I had a foolproof way to cut the production costs of part of his organization by 4/5ths w/out seriously cutting into the profits generated by that part, he'd grab it in a minute. But the general arts administrator...excepting the few imaginative ones, of course...can't see past the end of his arts administration degree holding nose. There IS no "profit motive"; there is no NECESSITY for original thinking, and if the ship be sinking, why he'll just mail out his resumes and get hired through the good ol' boy, good ol' way network onto another, more financially viable ship. Further, if the truth be told many of the articles one periodically sees about "Symphonies In Trouble" are just cynical publicity flak (shot by cynical publicity flacks) used to raise even more money. The occasional totally mismanaged minor symphony does fail...but how many in the last 40 years have really gone down for the count? And how many of THOSE would have survived if they had good, imaginative managers and used the natural artistic resources of this culture to their fullest extent? What are the reasons for this neglect? Excepting the natural inertia of any non-profit making system (think Post Office or the last years of the USSR for further references on this matter), the reasons appear to me to be twofold. First is the long held cultural inferiority complex of America...especially middle and upper middle class white America...in regard to Europe. "Our culture is so much younger than European culture...why, it MUST be inferior!!!" Second...good old American racism. Even though "jazz" has become a multi-racial and multi-cultural music, played and enjoyed equally by people of every race on earth, it was indeed invented by the sons and daughters of slaves, and largely developed by people from the lower classes of American society right on up through the 1970s at least...African Americans, fairly recently immigrated white ethnics of every stripe, people from the Caribbean and South America. How could it POSSIBLY be the equal of Beethoven and Mozart? It's just tricked up barroom dance music. Well, we have a saying here in New York. "Money talks; nobody walks." I make no brief here for the artistic content of the music...it speaks for itself, either you hear it or you don't...but I AM saying that if symphonies want to make money in order to survive, jazz is the way to go. In cold hard cash terms, there is money to be made in the production of jazz on the same concert level as symphony orchestras, modeled on the same financial system. Why this is not generally happening yet is beyond my comprehension. It seems to easily perceived. 4/5ths the cost, roughly the same profit per service...how can you miss it? But so far, they HAVE generally missed it. Maybe it's just early in the process and this will come to be a common tactic for symphony orchestras that wish to continue and grow, to successfully compete in the marketplace with the many other entertainment and cultural options offered to us today. I certainly hope so. It would be good for them, and good for the jazz idiom as well. Meanwhile...back to my long tones. Later... Sam Burtis ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:50:53 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Mahler Symphony No.3 Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" While it's always fun to talk about our favorite recordings, this thread has focused on a single aspect - the Mahler 3 trombone solo. Only one person has mentioned that there is a whole piece to be enjoyed. There is no "best" playing of the Mahler 3 solo. Just many performances which speak to different people. Different listeners can find much to admire or dislike in ANY Mahler 3 performance. If you ever want to put a stick in a hornet's nest, check out the Mahler-l: http://listserv.uh.edu/archives/mahler-list.html Strong opinions about every aspect of Mahler, including recordings. A lot of good stuff, a lot of hooey. A lot of informed people posting messages, a lot of "self-proclaimed experts." In the end, you like what you like for the reasons you have. I have 12 Mahler 3 recordings. I didn't buy them for the trombone solo. I bought them because I thought the performances add something to my understanding of the piece. All do that. Some add a little, some add a lot, some are dreadful and help reinforce for me what NOT to do. But I learn from all of them. My favorite Mahler 3 trombone solo? It's the one in my head. You can't buy it, and I can't play it, but I know how it goes. I will say, though, that the recording I've heard which closest approximates the way I hear the solo (by far) - and one in which the whole performance adds up to something of real drama and poetry - is a live performance by the Vancouver Symphony in 1995 under Sergiu Comissiona. Gordon Cherry is playing the trombone solo. You can't buy it - it was taped off the air. What? Comissiona? Vancouver? Gordon Cherry? I thought the greatest Mahler conductor was Horenstein! The best Mahler orchestra was the Vienna Philharmonic! The best trombone solo was by Joe Alessi! Surprise! -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 10:02:12 EST From: JLindem96@aol.com To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Alain Trudel review! Message-ID: <10d.d7c974a.299e7cf4@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think whenever we can have a brass player performing as a featured soloist with a major orchestra it should be celebrated...check out the following review: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/GIS.Servlets.HTMLTemplate?tf=tgam/searc h/tgam/SearchFullStory.html&cf=tgam/search/tgam/SearchFullStory.cfg& configFileLoc=tgam/config&encoded_keywords=alain+trudel&option=&start_row=1& current_row=1&start_row_offset1=&num_rows=1&search_results_start=1 Sincerely, Jens Lindemann www.trumpetsolo.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 10:12:00 -0500 From: "Aaron Roth" To: slide.rule@adios.co.uk, trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Tenor Trumpets (Re: Instrument design over the past 100 years or so) Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The tenor trumpet may not count, though, as a few major composers have written for it (Stravinsky, for example). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How does a tenor trumpet differ from a bass trumpet? Adrian Okay, someone correct me if I'm off base on this. The tenor trumpet is pitched in F or Eb, whereas true bass trumpets are pitched in Bb or C (trombone range). Stravinsky wrote an Eb "bass trumpet" into The Rite of Spring, but it seems to me to be a case of "small clarinet" vs. "piccolo clarinet", a preference of terminology. I thought I had seen one somewhere else, too, but I forget where. At any rate, according to Andrew Stiller (see his Handbook of Instrumentation) and a few other sources, tenor trumpets exist (I played one in F in high school) and are indeed written for. I think this is right but I don't have any reference books other than my Rite of Spring score. -Aaron Roth _________________________________________________________________ Join the worldâs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 10:23:39 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: very encouraging orchestra statistics Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020215101041.01f39438@acticalc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 09:32 AM 2/15/2002 -0500, sabutin wrote: Why this is not generally happening yet is beyond my comprehension. It seems to easily perceived. 4/5ths the cost, roughly the same profit per service...how can you miss it? The racism angle may be in there somewhere, but I think brand management is more clearly on their minds, even if they don't express it in those terms. Let's say an orchestra controls one or more performing venues, as many orchestras do. They make decisions about what acts will go into the hall. Now, if it were simply a matter of maximizing the profits per show (i.e. sell the most tickets while minimizing expenses), I think your arguments would be very compelling. The problem is that it is a false economy. Orchestras get a large part of their income from grants and gifts. These gifts come mainly from the "society types". For both the grants and gifts, the orchestra wants to maintain a highbrow image. Can you imagine any orchestra giving the stage to Marilyn Manson? I don't think so. No matter how much money that concert brought it, they would stand to lose more by having compromised the orchestra's brand image. They look upon jazz in the same way, for better or worse. Why take the risk if you can get some of that "jazz revenue" by putting on safe quasi-jazz concerts like pops shows and Wynton Marcelis? ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 10:21:09 -0500 From: Brian French To: sabutin@mindspring.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: very encouraging orchestra statistics Message-ID: <3C6D2765.8050308@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit sabutin wrote: Do the math, American large "jazz" ensemble vs. symphony orchestra. Roughly 20 musicians vs. about 100. Right there you save an enormous amount in salaries, touring, recording and music copying expenses, and administrative staff. At LEAST 1/5th of the cost of a symphony orchestra, right down the line. Probably less...less pork barreling possible w/a leaner system. W/proper scheduling and publicity, you would attract audiences of the same size as symphony audiences, paying about the same money per person. Maybe not as MANY people over a given year...although that might be disputed as well. (I mean, what do more real "people" enjoy in a visceral, musical, endorphin producing sense, Duke Ellington, Gil Evans and Chico O'Farrill or Beethoven, Brahms and Bartok? The audience is there, ready to be reached.) Same w/recordings,if done right. So...you have about 1/5th the outlay of money for the product, and yet get roughly the same return per performance. Talk about no-brainers!!! And yet the REAL "no-brainers" are the arts administrators who are missing this boat. The symphonies that are "in trouble" for WHATEVER reasons could be financially reinvigorated by simply starting serious "jazz" orchestras and programs. Sam, you do mean it that might behoove orchestras/performing arts centers to start "serious" jazz orchestras/programs IN ADDITION to the performing organization(s) already in place, right? You mean that instead of trying to raise ticket sales by adding performances of the music of dead white European men, orchestral associations should have an ensemble in residence to add performances of the jazz idiom, correct? You couldn't mean replacing the symphony orchestra entirely . . . that would detract from the cultural fabric rather than enhance it. Don't get me wrong . . . when I was in school, I loved to attend the jazz series at Chicago's Symphony Center, and I continue to enjoy (as I have for years) Wynton's program at Lincoln Center on TV and whenever I'm in town. I think it would be a great idea for other cities, even my own, to institute a serious jazz program at our major performing arts venue, but not at the cost of cutting the symphony orchestra entirely. Yes, a good-sized audience would be drawn to the jazz program, but another good-sized audience would feel alienated without a symphony orchestra. Sooner or later we'd long for the good ol'Western European repertoire. It's cool to see and hear the Ellington arrangements of Peer Gynt and The Nutcracker. But what if I want to go out and see a performance of Mahler 5? Wes Anderson is fantastic, God bless him, but I don't think he has the right kind of sound for the horn solos in the 3rd movement. Did I misunderstand? --Brian ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 08:36:53 -0700 From: Earl Needham To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Tenor Trumpets (Re: Instrument design over the past 100 years or so) Message-ID: <4.2.2.20020215083100.00aa0570@pop3.norton.antivirus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 10:12 AM 2/15/2002 -0500, Aaron Roth wrote: Okay, someone correct me if I'm off base on this. The tenor trumpet is pitched in F or Eb, whereas true bass trumpets are pitched in Bb or C (trombone range). Stravinsky wrote an Eb "bass trumpet" into The Rite of Spring, but it seems to me to be a case of "small clarinet" vs. "piccolo clarinet", a preference of terminology. I thought I had seen one somewhere else, too, but I forget where. At any rate, according to Andrew Stiller (see his Handbook of Instrumentation) and a few other sources, tenor trumpets exist (I played one in F in high school) and are indeed written for. I think this is right but I don't have any reference books other than my Rite of Spring score. -Aaron Roth I would think one good reference would be http://www.selmer.com/brass/stradtrp/stradtrp.html . This reference doesn't list a tenor trumpet, but does list a bass trumpet in B-flat (see http://www.selmer.com/brass/stradtrp/B188.html ). They list two trumpets pitched in F -- a sopranino and a contralto. (Wouldn't that be neat in a marching band instead of those mellophones or marching horns...) Other trumpets listed are soprano in E-flat, several rotary-valved trumpets, etc. My personal thought on the tenor trumpet is that the term "bass trumpet" is incorrect as the instrument actually plays in the tenor range. Of course, I am just an amateur, too. Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB, Clovis, New Mexico KD5XB-2>APU24L,WA5IHL-11,K5BEN-15,WA5IHL-7,W5SF-1,K5CQH-15,WB5EKP-1*,TRACE7- 1:=3425.84N/10313.56W-[DM84] Pet peeve #1: You look at a "SITE" with your "SIGHT". Pet peeve #2: "Congratulations" does NOT have a "d" in it. Old pet peeve: People who get themselves on a mailing list and then can't figure out how to get OFF the list, then repeatedly sending "unsubscribe" or "remove" as one-word messages to the list. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 08:43:37 -0700 From: Dave Tall To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Akiyoshi big band Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020215084337.0134add8@mail.albqrq1.nm.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:58 AM 2/15/2002 -0500, sabutin wrote: > 1-Birdland. On Sunday nights, Chico O'Farrill's Afro/Cuban Jazz >Orchestra, on Mondays (Tuesdays?) Toshiko Akiyoshi's big band. > Sam, I didn't know she was leading a big band again. Do you know who's playing (not just the trombones!) and whether the band will be recording? I loved hearing this band both live and recorded in the '80s. She's a very inventive composer/arranger. Dave Tall Bass Trombonist New Mexico Symphony ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 10:45:01 -0500 From: "Aaron Roth" To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Tenor Trumpets (Re: Instrument design over the past 100 years or so) Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I think we're on to something here...as that contralto trumpet looks amazingly like the horn I had tootled a few years back. The one I played was tarnished silver, though. OTC: I believe the bass trumpet Michael Mulcahy plays is a Bb one, but I am almost guessing. If it is, it really is a high-tessitura instrument that probably takes alto bone chops to play in the right ballpark of sound concept. Time for class now.... -Aaron Roth I would think one good reference would be http://www.selmer.com/brass/stradtrp/stradtrp.html . This reference doesn't list a tenor trumpet, but does list a bass trumpet in B-flat (see http://www.selmer.com/brass/stradtrp/B188.html ). They list two trumpets pitched in F -- a sopranino and a contralto. (Wouldn't that be neat in a marching band instead of those mellophones or marching horns...) Other trumpets listed are soprano in E-flat, several rotary-valved trumpets, etc. My personal thought on the tenor trumpet is that the term "bass trumpet" is incorrect as the instrument actually plays in the tenor range. Of course, I am just an amateur, too. Earl _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 08:47:03 -0700 From: Dave Tall To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Instrument design over the past 100 years or so Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020215084703.0134add8@mail.albqrq1.nm.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:15 PM 2/15/2002 -0000, Adrian Drover wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >Who has even heard of a Chapman stick? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >Nothing listed between Celtic Harp (9 players) and Charango (2 players with >the same name. Brothers?) > >Are there any gigs for Chapman Stick? > A fellow I knew as a trumpet player, Steve Hahn, has two albums out featuring him playing Chapman Stick. I don't know how much gigging he's doing ;-) Dave Tall Bass Trombonist New Mexico Symphony ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 10:47:51 -0500 From: Walter Barrett To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Tenor Trumpets (Re: Instrument design over the past 100 years or so) Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit on 2/15/02 10:12 AM, Aaron Roth at bassrange@hotmail.com sent forth into the cosmos: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> The tenor trumpet may not count, though, as >> a few major composers have written for it (Stravinsky, for example). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> How does a tenor trumpet differ from a bass trumpet? >> >> Adrian > > > Okay, someone correct me if I'm off base on this. > The tenor trumpet is pitched in F or Eb, whereas true bass trumpets are > pitched in Bb or C (trombone range). Stravinsky wrote an Eb "bass trumpet" > into The Rite of Spring, but it seems to me to be a case of "small clarinet" > vs. "piccolo clarinet", a preference of terminology. I thought I had seen > one somewhere else, too, but I forget where. At any rate, according to > Andrew Stiller (see his Handbook of Instrumentation) and a few other > sources, tenor trumpets exist (I played one in F in high school) and are > indeed written for. > I think this is right but I don't have any reference books other than > my Rite of Spring score. > -Aaron Roth Aaron- Vincent Bach always referred to Eb and F trumpets as Alto Trumpets.(Normal Bb and C trumpets were "Mezzo-sopranos") In the Rite, I think that Igor meant for a "Bass" instrument to be used, but wrote it with an Eb transposition (for some reason unknown to me.) The very first entrance is a solo passage that goes down to written F natural a few times, which is unplayable on a 3 valve Eb instrument, unless you're willing to live with the sound of a faked low F. In Stravinsky's "Canticum Sacrum" he also wrote a Bass Trumpet part, but here it's in C (treble clef). Bass or tenor might be a regional thing, similar to the Brits calling something an "tenor horn", and we Yanks calling it an "Alto Horn, peck horn", or various other vulgar expressions. I did see a Piccolo clarinet once, at the old Giardenelli's. It was in Ab, and only about 10-12 inches long. Now THAT's a scary thing to imagine hearing! Walter Barrett DETACHƒ: an indication that the trombones are to play with their slides removed. SENZA SORDINO: a term used to remind the player that he forgot to put his mute on a few measures back. PASSING TONE: frequently heard near the baked beans at family barbecues. AUDITION: the act of putting oneself under extreme duress to satisfy the sadistic intentions of someone who has already made up his mind. Yamaha Artist/Clinician Tenor, Alto, Bass Trombones Euphonium Bass Trumpet Tuba ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 11:24:53 -0500 From: sabutin To: Brian French Cc: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: very encouraging orchestra statistics Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" sabutin wrote: Do the math, American large "jazz" ensemble vs. symphony orchestra. Roughly 20 musicians vs. about 100. Right there you save an enormous amount in salaries, touring, recording and music copying expenses, and administrative staff. At LEAST 1/5th of the cost of a symphony orchestra, right down the line. Probably less...less pork barreling possible w/a leaner system. W/proper scheduling and publicity, you would attract audiences of the same size as symphony audiences, paying about the same money per person. Maybe not as MANY people over a given year...although that might be disputed as well. (I mean, what do more real "people" enjoy in a visceral, musical, endorphin producing sense, Duke Ellington, Gil Evans and Chico O'Farrill or Beethoven, Brahms and Bartok? The audience is there, ready to be reached.) Same w/recordings,if done right. So...you have about 1/5th the outlay of money for the product, and yet get roughly the same return per performance. Talk about no-brainers!!! And yet the REAL "no-brainers" are the arts administrators who are missing this boat. The symphonies that are "in trouble" for WHATEVER reasons could be financially reinvigorated by simply starting serious "jazz" orchestras and programs. Sam, you do mean it that might behoove orchestras/performing arts centers to start "serious" jazz orchestras/programs IN ADDITION to the performing organization(s) already in place, right? =========== Yes, of course. I guess I wasn't clear enough. It would be a win/win situation. The Symphony organization would turn a profit that would enable them to program great Western European music, and the jazz players would have more + better work. =============== You mean that instead of trying to raise ticket sales by adding performances of the music of dead white European men, orchestral associations should have an ensemble in residence to add performances of the jazz idiom, correct? ========= Yup. ==================== You couldn't mean replacing the symphony orchestra entirely . . . that would detract from the cultural fabric rather than enhance it. ========= Nope. ============== Don't get me wrong . . . when I was in school, I loved to attend the jazz series at Chicago's Symphony Center, and I continue to enjoy (as I have for years) Wynton's program at Lincoln Center on TV and whenever I'm in town. I think it would be a great idea for other cities, even my own, to institute a serious jazz program at our major performing arts venue, but not at the cost of cutting the symphony orchestra entirely. Yes, a good-sized audience would be drawn to the jazz program, but another good-sized audience would feel alienated without a symphony orchestra. Sooner or later we'd long for the good ol'Western European repertoire. It's cool to see and hear the Ellington arrangements of Peer Gynt and The Nutcracker. But what if I want to go out and see a performance of Mahler 5? Wes Anderson is fantastic, God bless him, but I don't think he has the right kind of sound for the horn solos in the 3rd movement. Did I misunderstand? --Brian ======= I don't know if you misunderstood and/or if I miswrote. I am certainly NOT anti-symphony or anti-European orchestral/chamber idiom in general. S. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 11:40:19 -0500 From: "Dale J. Cruse" To: "'Trombones and related issues forum.'" Subject: The Memorabilia of Music - long Message-ID: <003801c1b63f$74a21a20$70d92444@union1.nj.home.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit There's no specific trombone content here, but what music lover among us wouldn't want to paw a few things contained herein? Enjoy.... http://www.nytimes.com/2002/02/15/arts/music/15EICH.html?pagewanted=1 The Memorabilia of Music By JEREMY EICHLER New York Times One blustery afternoon a few months ago, I set out to find a former home of Sergei Rachmaninoff. The great pianist and composer once lived at 33 Riverside Drive, but when I arrived I discovered that his townhouse had been razed to make room for a stately apartment building at the same address. A plaque affixed to the facade tells the passer-by nothing about the old Russian master but proudly notes that George and Ira Gershwin lived there years later. I was intrigued by this coincidence. Like the vertical strata of an archaeological site, New York's musical history seemed to be stacked on top of itself. If anyone could appreciate this observation, I knew it was a wonderful couple I had recently met only blocks away. There is no plaque on their building, but inside their apartment the layering of the musical past goes far beyond the overlapping addresses of yesterday's New York. Indeed, to enter their home is to find this very history distilled into the world of artifacts: books, photographs, etchings, paintings, manuscripts, letters, diaries, quotations, concert programs and instruments. These objects line the walls, tower high in the closets and quite literally emerge from the carved woodwork. The only things they have in common are that they are old and music-related and that they have been collected by the remarkable husband- and-wife team of Marianne Wurlitzer and Gene Bruck. The apartment is a gallery with elements of a museum, an archive and an antiquarian shop, but none of these quite describe the space that this couple has created. It is perhaps better thought of as a variety store of music history where, for a reasonable sum, you can purchase an actual letter written by Brahms to his publisher, a first edition of Bach's "St. Matthew Passion," an original silhouette of Paganini in concert or an autographed musical quotation from Verdi's "Aida" in the composer's own hand. There are thousands upon thousands of such items within these walls. Given how much it encompasses, the gallery fittingly draws its name from a simple linking of theirs: Wurlitzer- Bruck. I first heard of this extraordinary place the way most people do, by word of mouth. Although they have been in business for more than 25 years, the two have never advertised or sent out a catalog or even placed a sign on the door. Business is by appointment only, and they say customers who are serious have a way of finding them. When I arrived at the gallery for the first time, I found it difficult to keep my eyes on any one thing, so intense was the overload of the curious, the strange and the beautiful. Everywhere I looked, centuries of history intermingled and distinct musical traditions competed for scant wall space. A Bourdelle bust of Beethoven peered out austerely beneath a gorgeous Norwegian Hardanger fiddle with a fingerboard of bone, ebony and mother of pearl. A signed portrait of the jazz drummer Max Roach levitating in the lotus position hung mischievously over a quotation from Wagner's "TannhŠuser." A giant 4-by-3-foot original etching of the Joachim String Quartet adorned a wall next to a blue and white porcelain cello made as a garden ornament, and on and on. The main room of the gallery was bathed in a soft afternoon light that streamed in through large windows overlooking the Hudson. The striking view, 17 stories up, added to the peculiar enchantment of this place ÷ a secret musical reliquary in the sky. After a quick tour of the apartment, Mr. Bruck and Ms. Wurlitzer invited me to sit down, and across the two bronze Shan rain drums that they use as a coffee table we began to get acquainted. Mr. Bruck is a gentle and soft-spoken man who has had many jobs in music journalism and publishing. Ms. Wurlitzer comes from an illustrious line of instrument dealers (known primarily for their pianos, organs and jukeboxes), and she speaks with the knowing sharpness one might expect from growing up around a family business, together with the thoughtful wisdom of having reinvented it. The idea to open a shop selling what they themselves are hard- pressed to describe but generally refer to as "oddball musical things" came to them in 1974. They took their first business trip to Europe to start buying shortly thereafter. "If we could sell it all when we got back, fine," Mr. Bruck said. "If not, we'd have all that nice stuff, and we'd go and get real jobs." Almost three decades later, business is still good, and in true mom- and-pop fashion, they have moved their living quarters to a studio apartment one floor above the gallery. Conversation eventually turned to the shop itself, and the stories began to dovetail one into the next. I quickly realized that for every one of the countless items in this shop, there was a separate tale of the research, the hunt, the acquisition, the provenance and the personalities involved. The couple clearly relished telling these charming anecdotes, and they would pass the narrative thread between each other in midstory or even midsentence with a practiced ease, like string quartet players handing off a single melody across several instruments. Accordingly, I learned that much of the business they do is in presents. They once selected a gift to be offered to the emperor of Japan (he was an amateur cellist and was given a facsimile of original Mozart quartets), and for Woody Allen, who bought a Gershwin-autographed score to "Porgy and Bess" for an occasion he did not specify. They also travel frequently to auctions overseas, including a recent trip to Europe from which they returned empty-handed only to find the librettos of the first two operas in history, printed in Florence around 1600, for sale in the building across the street. (They bought them.) The couple have performed dozens of appraisals, another subject of many a yarn. Within their first year of business, the New York Public Library asked them to appraise the original manuscript of Mozart's "Haffner" Symphony. They have also appraised the Toscanini estate of more than 26,000 items. "It was very poignant," Mr. Bruck said. "We got to know him through his collection, through his letters and even through his eyeglasses, which you could see getting progressively stronger." And finally, there are the tales of their own families and past lives, and here Ms. Wurlitzer takes center stage. Her grandfather, Rudolph Henry Wurlitzer, had a fabled shop in Cincinnati where the great instrumentalists of music's golden age would stop by. In these stories, legendary performers become lovable family friends. The great Belgian violinist Eugne Ysaye was a big gourmand, Ms. Wurlitzer explained casually. "He would knock on the window to find out what was for lunch, and if it was something he liked, he'd knock on the main door to be let in. And who wouldn't invite Ysaye over for lunch?" This intimate sense of connection to musical spirits long gone is, of course, present not only in Ms. Wurlitzer's family stories, but in the collection itself. The "graphics room," off the main gallery, is filled with signed letters, autographs and musical quotations. Many of these are tastefully matted and carefully stacked one atop the other on shelves: a message scrawled on Shostakovich's private stationery; a calling card from Mahler with a note inviting a friend to cocktails at a Vienna hotel; a concert ticket signed by Berlioz; a folk rhythm jotted down by Bart—k. These were all quotidian moments captured from transcendent lives, and I loved the way they were now piled cozily together, a Gordian tangle of chronology, geography and memory. And while similar relics might appear in a museum exhibit, sterilized by a glass display case and soporifically explained by a caption, the excitement of this gallery lies in the fact that each object can be held in one's hand. What's more, the items are introduced personally by their owners and layered with the couple's own relationship to the item. One is drawn in by the hushed tones with which Mr. Bruck unveils a youthful portrait of the composer and musical mystic Ferruccio Busoni, or the care with which he opens the cover of his favorite first edition of Bach to marvel at the splendor of its title page. And yet, as Mr. Bruck and Ms. Wurlitzer are quick to point out, they are not collectors in the traditional sense. Despite all of their appreciation for what they own, they also run a business, and they are willing to sell even the most magical and precious items in their inventory. That attitude first struck me as odd, even heartless, but I soon came to see it as a sort of wisdom, an idea of property divorced from its illusion of permanence. Everything in their gallery belongs to them, but in a way that acknowledges that these items were never theirs to begin with. Rather than collectors, the two are custodians of these objects, assembling them and providing them a place to reside until they find their future homes. As the sunlight faded in the apartment that first afternoon, Mr. Bruck and Ms. Wurlitzer showed me stack after stack of pictures, letters and autographs. Over time, I discovered that not all salvaged scraps of the past were equally moving to me. Some items seemed pregnant with a deeper meaning and a historical poignance, while others seemed little more than curiosities. As we waded through Dvorak letters and Puccini quotations, I found myself impatient to encounter my own musical heroes. I asked, for example, if they had any photographs of the Soviet violinist David Oistrakh, a musician whose incandescent playing burned through the darkness of his times in a way that has always captured my imagination. (They of course produced several pictures.) As I spent more time in the gallery, I realized that I was ultimately seeking a particular type of connection with the past. Rather than admiring its wonders from the critical distance of a historian, I was instead looking for a resonance of myself in that past, a connection through time to my own ideas about someone or something I could never really know. This, I finally understood, was what Proust meant when he wrote about our searching in things for glimmers of our own thoughts or, in his words, the reflection of what our soul has projected onto them. When we find that reflection, the object becomes meaningful to us, perhaps more so than it ever was to its original owner. There was something very beautiful, I thought, in this notion of a physical thing and its moment in history being reimagined and reborn inside each new owner. Back in the gallery, I was careful to focus on the task at hand, but I suspected that Mr. Bruck and Ms. Wurlitzer had already discovered my secret. Despite my stated journalistic mission, the couple surely realized that while they were showing me the pictures, letters and everything else so that I might write this article, I was quietly imagining myself one day purchasing just a single item from within these walls. And while I didn't find that object on either my first or my second trip, I am not worried. I know that I'll be returning to this otherworldly place, to visit Mr. Bruck and Ms. Wurlitzer and to continue looking through their stacks ÷ until that moment when I hold in my hand the sliver of history I will one day own, and find in its sepia-toned imagery or in its hastily scribbled sentences the shock of recognition. Jeremy Eichler is features editor of andante.com and writes about music for The New Republic. If you've read this far, you'll probably want to know that Wurlitzer-Bruck has a website at: http://www.wurlitzerbruck.com/ Happy hunting, Dale J. Cruse dale@dalecruse.com http://www.dalecruse.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 10:54:59 -0600 From: "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" To: "'mclayville@hotmail.com'" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Mahler 3 [utah] Message-ID: <587F49FABBEDD411A68F00A0C9EA313B5FD0CA@dasmthkhn561.amedd.army.mil> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1B641.81335900" Mike: Why do you think Joe Alessi recommends listening to this piece? He must hear something that he wants you to use as a learning point. I can't pull it out of your review. Rick Marple San Antonio TX ============== Subject: Re: Mahler 3 [utah] How did I know that everyone would have an opinion on this topic? Anyway, in regards to the Utah/Abravanel recording... after hearing Joe Alessi make the same remark that Randy mentioned (about making all his students listen to this recording) I started hunting it down myself. After three years of searching I found it in an out of the way shop in Japan. (Go figure, couldn't find it at Tower but middle of nowhere Japan...) My thoughts on it... overall the performance is emotionally intense but unclean (rhythmic discrepancies, pitch problems, etc.), the strings/woodwinds sound good (not thrilled about some of the tone colors), the trumpets are great (esp. the posthorn, it's *very* "in the distance" and extremely musical), the horns are incredible (great tone, phrasing...) and finally what everyone is really interested in... Trombones: recorded rather oddly: levels sound rather lower than the rest of the ensemble but they are still quite present main point to mention: lack of sustain (not only in the trombones but throughout the ensemble/piece). But while notes are not really held to their full value there is no taper. It results in what I would characterize as some pretty choppy phrasing. Solos (Ned Meredith is the principal trombone, by the way): 1st solo: definite lack of sustain but like i said no taper subtle attacks (he never 'hammers' a note, its more like the German nachschlag (pretty sure I'm using the right term here)) uses vibrato throughout the solo and not just at notes before resolutions 2nd solo: rather quick tempo less legato than you would generally hear it performed now some really nice phrasing (echoing the second g-d towards the end of the solo, for instance) lack of sustain through the end ritard 3rd solo: holy pitch, batman (unison a's) extremely nice phrasing throughout (really nice subito piano after the turn toward the end) I know I can't really do it justice through words but I know for the longest time I was extremely interested in this performance because of the ringing endorsement from Joe and this is the best I can do for everyone here. Mike Clayville www.monumentalbrass.org _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 10:26:52 -0700 From: James Scott To: bassrange@hotmail.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Tenor Trumpets (Re: Instrument design over the past 100 years or so) Message-ID: <3C6D44DB.EE24BA95@ucalgary.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron - This is just a case of terminology differing from one place to another. Thein, on their web-site, shows bass trumpets in, b flat, c , and e flat (all rotary valve). By the way, someone mentioned Michael Mulcahy's bass trumpet recording - he's using an Alexander "C" bass trumpet (rotary valve), borrowed from Jay Freidman according to the liner notes. My teacher had an old e-flat rotary bass trumpet that he had found on tour sitting in his locker. It took a small trombone mouthpiece (he had a 12C in it), and he said he played it once or twice in the NY Philharmonic when a trumpet part went too low for a modern b flat trumpet (just for the note or two that were too low) - he'd collect a doubling fee for it. Jim Scott Aaron Roth wrote: > I think we're on to something here...as that contralto trumpet looks > amazingly like the horn I had tootled a few years back. The one I played > was tarnished silver, though. > OTC: I believe the bass trumpet Michael Mulcahy plays is a Bb one, but I am > almost guessing. If it is, it really is a high-tessitura instrument that > probably takes alto bone chops to play in the right ballpark of sound > concept. Time for class now.... > -Aaron Roth > > > I would think one good reference would be > >http://www.selmer.com/brass/stradtrp/stradtrp.html . > > > > This reference doesn't list a tenor trumpet, but does list a bass > >trumpet in B-flat (see http://www.selmer.com/brass/stradtrp/B188.html > >). They list two trumpets pitched in F -- a sopranino and a > >contralto. (Wouldn't that be neat in a marching band instead of those > >mellophones or marching horns...) > > > > Other trumpets listed are soprano in E-flat, several rotary-valved > >trumpets, etc. > > > > My personal thought on the tenor trumpet is that the term "bass > >trumpet" is incorrect as the instrument actually plays in the tenor > >range. Of course, I am just an amateur, too. > > > > Earl > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2301 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 10:39:16 -0700 From: James Scott To: jgreen@m.u-tokyo.ac.jp Cc: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Mahler 3 Message-ID: <3C6D47C4.3E410927@ucalgary.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe - I found mine at Tower Records in NY (Licoln Center) about a year or two ago. Same with the Utah one that was mentioned here as being hard to find. Both could be out of print now, and I just was lucky to find a last copy on the shelves. By the way, Doug Yeo is definitely right about the fact that it's an entire work that we forget about, and just concentrate on the solo in the first mvt. by the 1st trombone. The last mvt. is my favorite music in the piece, and I love the recent Bernstein/NY for the pacing and drama in that mvt. Jim Scott Joseph Green wrote: > James, > > Is the Mulcahy/Cologne recording co