TROMBONE-L Digest 2168 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) RE: Trombone Shipping by "Harry Wootan" 2) Re: Edwards Cases by "Paul Kemp Jr" 3) Re: Trombone History by David Oliver 4) RE: Russian Cristmas music by "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" 5) Re: strange Yahoo auction by Atlbrvsnt@aol.com 6) Bach 42G for sale by Weston Sprott 7) BAM cases & Dillon by James Gicking 8) Re: Trombone Shipping by "Elizabeth Lewis" 9) Playing 'Tubby' by Tony Clements 10) Re: Trombone Shipping by "conn60h" 11) Re: Trombone History by Douglas Yeo 12) Re:Discrimination against Trombones on Classical Radio by Ralph L Holloway 13) Re: strange Yahoo auction by "Aaron Roth" 14) orchestral excerpts by "James W. Yardley" 15) Philadelphia trombones in Kalamazoo, Oct. 6th by "Dr. Carole Nowicke, Applied Health Science" 16) Radio programming, was Re:Discrimination against Trombones on Classical Radio by "Jeff Albert" 17) Re:Discrimination against Trombones on Classical Radio by Craig Parmerlee 18) Re:Discrimination against Trombones on Classical Radio by Roger Hecht 19) Re:Discrimination against Trombones on Classical Radio by "McFarland's" 20) Re: Radio programming, was Re:Discrimination against Trombones on Classical Radio by "McFarland's" 21) Re: C-M: instrumental rentals by Gregg and Sharon 22) Tenor and Bass trombones for sale by "Dr. Carole Nowicke, Applied Health Science" 23) Re: Radio programming, was Re:Discrimination against Trombones on Classical Radio by Ralph L Holloway 24) Re: orchestral excerpts by Jonathan A Szopinski 25) Re:Discrimination against Trombones on Classical Radio by Ralph L Holloway 26) Re:Discrimination against Trombones on Classical Radio by Ralph L Holloway 27) Re:Discrimination against Trombones on Classical Radio by Angie Brunk 28) Re:Discrimination against Trombones on Classical Radio by Angie Brunk 29) Re:Discrimination against Trombones on Classical Radio by "Aaron Roth" 30) Re: Radio programming, was Re:Discrimination against Trombones on Classical Radio by "Adrian Drover" ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2168 Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 07:45:19 -0500 From: "Harry Wootan" To: "Richard Corliss" , , "Trombones and related issues forum." Cc: "Harry Wootan" Subject: RE: Trombone Shipping Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One other thing to prevent when packaging a trombone for shipping ... a wrinkled bell! Many cases aren't designed to prevent the bell from shifting against the inside end of the case. A blow to the bell end of the box/case [even with peanuts between the case and the box] can ram the bell against the inside end of the case. Wrinkled bell!! A styrofoam cone (wrapped in a plastic bag) can be a great help. They cost $2 or so at craft stores. Trim it to a length so that it fits insie the bell like a mute ... and extends enough to secure the bell section in place. Or just use crumpled newspaper to help soften the blow (in case it occurs). If the case secures the bell section by securing the crossbrace, then it lessens the chances that this will happen. But if the bell section just sits/lies in place (3B box, for example), then it won't take much. Just look at it and decide whether dropping the case on the bell end might cause the bell section to shift. -- Harry hpw@mindspring.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Corliss [mailto:rcorliss@astound.net] > Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 11:17 PM > To: Atlbrvsnt@aol.com > Cc: Trombones and related issues forum. > Subject: Re: Trombone Shipping > > > > Atlbrvsnt@aol.com wrote: > > > Hi List, > > I've been on the list for a while now, and have yet to see this topic > > covered...I'm curious as to the methods people use to ship trombones > > when they are sold via methods like ebay, classifieds, etc. I'm > > considering buying this way, and selling a horn this way also. By the > > way, what do these methods cost? > > Thanks, > > Tommy Cox > > University of Alabama > > The standard method involves two things: First, pack the case with > styrofoam balls, or something to this effect. In doing this > take into consideration what the particular weaknesses are in the case, > and do something for them. For example, if a case does not have a > partition to separate slide and bell I always put in some paperback > books to keep slide and bell separate. That's > a standard procedure I follow whether or not I'm shipping the > instrument. Secondly, put the case into a cardboard box that is with > filled styrofoal filler - with emphasis on the 'being filled'. The box > needs to big enough so that the case does not touch any sides of the > box. If something falls on the box or if the box is dropped you want the > styrofoam to aborb most of the impact. If you do not have such a box, > shipping places that also do packing will do this for you. > > Any instrument that is valuable should be insured. > > Richard Corliss > > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2168 Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 10:00:09 -0400 From: "Paul Kemp Jr" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Edwards Cases Message-ID: <003f01c149b8$3848f4c0$775b4d0c@pauljr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear List, I don't play Edwards anymore, but when I bought mine in 1995, the Edwards hard case I bought bowed the slide out of alignment within 6 weeks. I started using an Altieri Bag, which was cheaper than the Edwards gig bag, and a much better case to boot. However, the Altieri bag is a bit week in the bell compartment, but you can overcome that by JUST BEING CAREFUL. No matter what kind of case you use, a good rule of thumb is NEVER to handle the case roughly while the instrument is in it. I've heard that the newer designed Edwards cases are better--don't know from personal experience. However, I was able to check out that new BAM case at the Hickey's display at the ITF this year, and I was impressed enough to have one of my bass trombone students get one just on my recommendation, and it fits his Bach 50B3 perfectly, and the slide is very securely held in the lid, and there is more than adequate padding for the bell section as well. It is the the old French style case that Selmer used for years until they had too many bells damaged in shipping, and then they went to the brown coffin style case. Those are fine except for the fact that 1) they're heavy to carry for any great distance, and 2) you stand a very good chance of bowing the slide out of alignment if you repeatedly set the horn down with the handle facing up. If you're going to use that case, either stand the horn on the bell, or lay the case down so that the handle is facing opposite the slide compartment. For the money, The BAM case is a very worthwhile investment, and I intend to give one to myself for Christmas this year. It is a lightweight case, but extremely well made and has much more padding in the bell section than the old Black french style Selmer cases, and the slide compartment holds the slide extremely securely. Hickey's has a wonderful price on it--circa $250. That's the price of 4 slide alignments from Jorn Upchurch, and you'll be playing your horn more than you'll be having your slide worked on. Call Chuck at Hickeys at 1-800-hickeys or go to the web site at www.hickeys.com and I'll contact Chuck later for my commission check. Paul Kemp Chattanooga Symphony www.trbnplyr.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2168 Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 08:48:54 -0700 From: David Oliver To: Trombone List Subject: Re: Trombone History Message-ID: <3BB73EE5.7F7982C2@accessnetusa.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've just been informed by a long time lister that the Backstrom trombone history page is lifted pretty much word or word from "The Grove Dictionary of Music" (Anthony Baines). He does allude to the book at the very end by stating "From ...", but seems not to be aware that you can't just copy parts of a book. Baines also wrote the excellent "Brass Instruments, Their History and Development", which I've had for 7 years now. It is a Dover publication, and the high quality paperback was just $10 then. David Oliver Broomfield, Colorado USA ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2168 Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 09:51:50 -0500 From: "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" To: "'swan325@earthlink.net'" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Russian Cristmas music Message-ID: <587F49FABBEDD411A68F00A0C9EA313B5FCD11@dasmthkhn561.amedd.army.mil> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C149BF.6FB5A140" I just visited Southern Music yesterday at their new (almost 1 year old )home on Austin Highway, San Antonio TX. If you have never been there, it is a treat. In the old place on Broadway Ave, you would walk in and the smell of musty music sheets hit you as you walked in the door, almost the way a library smells, although customers and staff don't often smoke in a library. You couldn't walk in too far before someone would ask if they could help you. You would, as I did yesterday, say something non-descript such as, "Ahhhh, I'm looking for that duet book, you know, the jazz one by what's his name." Incredibly they would chisel down the particulars and find it. I am happy to report that NOTHING HAS CHANGED at their new store site. The building is new, the lighting is better, the air circulates more, but Southern Music's incredible library of music and their customer friendly approach is still the best. I looked at their web site today, and searched in several different ways, "trombone duets", "trombone jazz duets", "trombone", "Bower", "Bugs Bower", "Bower, Bugs", "Bugs Bunny" (Try this one, you'll get a match!). Never found the jazz duets I bought off the shelf yesterday, and no I didn't buy the last one. :-). Anyway, I recommend you call them on their 1-800 number and speak to a sales person. Try and have as much info at the time, publisher, title, Composer, instrument, type of music, etc. Much of their catalog is on the shelf and not yet in the web page search program, especially the more unique. Here is the number: 1-800-284-5443 Rick Marple San Antonio TX -----Original Message----- From: Eric & Candice Swanson [mailto:swan325@earthlink.net] Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 12:55 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Russian Cristmas music A friend of mine sent me the following. I thought somebody on the list might have some ideas where to look. Eric Swanson > I'm contracting a brass quintet job in December, and I had an unusual > request from the client... he wants to have some Russian Christmas music. > I've tried to find some at Southern Music and at the Robert King > website, but no luck so far. Have you heard of any sources for this kind > of thing? > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2168 Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 11:21:34 EDT From: Atlbrvsnt@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: strange Yahoo auction Message-ID: <157.1c5e123.28e8927e@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_157.1c5e123.28e8927e_boundary" OK, there seems to be a slight misunderstanding...I posted about the trombone in the Yahoo auction knowing it was in all likelihood a piece of junk...I was just inquiring as to the origins of this strange (to an American) design, and actually making fun of it. Sorry for the confusion. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2168 Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 11:30:57 -0500 From: Weston Sprott To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Bach 42G for sale Message-ID: <200109301630.LAA13898@indiana.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 I am selling my Bach 42G. There are some small dings and scratches in the bell along with some lacquer wear. The horn plays great and blows freely. On the whole, it looks ok and plays well. I'm looking to sell for $900 or best offer. Please contact me off list if you are interested. Thanks. Weston Sprott Indiana University 812-857-7542 wsprott@indiana.edu ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2168 Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 13:32:38 -0400 From: James Gicking To: Subject: BAM cases & Dillon Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The french-made BAM cases (Mentioned in an Edwards case thread) ARE very good. I've stopped using anything else, including my trusty old Bach shaped cases. I've found that the standard BAM case (I'm not sure what sizes are available) accomodates anything from my Bach 12 to 42COG!! - nice and snug. Should straps and handles. REal compact, removable sheet music compartment, a tiny compartment inside for slide persuader, but not much else. Dillon's in Woodbridge NJ has them, and I believe I paid about $235 or less there. ONLY flaw is that the zippered outer ersatz leather (could be real leather) shell, which is glued to the hard foam inner-shell, tends to want to come unglued. Not really a problem, since the zipper closure is durable and pulls the outer shell into place. Dillon hot-glued mine, but that has also failed. I've dropped my horn in this case, bell end first from about 2', no damage. Jim ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2168 Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 14:07:49 -0500 From: "Elizabeth Lewis" To: Atlbrvsnt@aol.com, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Trombone Shipping Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello again to all, I can tell you about one way of doing this, since SE Shires shipped about 3 1/2 instruments to me last year (long story...). He wraps the bell section in layers of large bubble wrap and tapes the stuff down, then does the same with the slide. Then he tapes them together (similarly wrap and tape down leadpipes or any other small objects you need to ship with it as well). Use a "lamp box" (it allows for a good amount of space for sytrofoam chips on each end). Be sure every part of the box is filled with chips so that there's no way for the horn to move around. This isn't a fool-proof method, but with UPS nothing can really be fool-proof. Another interesting thing is that Shires always (unless the customer demands otherwise) ships instruments and cases seperately because the horn is actually safer being shipped by itself. And ALWAYS insure at full replacement value. Beth Lewis On Sat, 29 Sep 2001 18:07:54 Atlbrvsnt wrote: >Hi List, >I've been on the list for a while now, and have yet to see this topic >covered...I'm curious as to the methods people use to ship trombones when >they are sold via methods like ebay, classifieds, etc. I'm considering >buying this way, and selling a horn this way also. By the way, what do these >methods cost? >Thanks, >Tommy Cox >University of Alabama > Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S. http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2168 Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 13:16:35 -0700 From: Tony Clements To: Greg Bergantz , Alexander , Subject: Playing 'Tubby' Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On Sunday, October 7, I'm playing Tubby the Tuba with the san Jose Symphony. We are repeating the concert on Tuesday, October 9. Please call the Symphony for more info 408/287-7383 Tony C ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2168 Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 17:57:21 -0500 From: "conn60h" To: Subject: Re: Trombone Shipping Message-ID: <004301c14a03$436da120$59392ad0@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0040_01C149D9.5A653E80" I've shipped quite a few trombones throughout the years and have never had one damaged in transit. First go to a crafts store and pick up a styrofoam cone. They are about 9" x 4". Wrap the cone in an old sock, as not to scratch the bell. Place the cone inside the bell and measure the cone so it's about a half an inch from the end of the case. Then cut it off and place bell section in case. This will prevent the bell from getting smashed if the case is droped on its end. I usually try to get as much bubble wrap as I can around or over both the bell and slide. You don't want any movement inside the case. Now find a stout cardboard box about 4 to6 inches larger than the case. I found a source for locomotive air filter boxes that work out just great. The cardboard is so heavy, it's almost like plywood. Then fill the box with sytrofoam kernals and/or large bubblewrap, centering the case in the box. Use wide packing tape onALL edges. Make sure that you have copies of both your name and address, and where its going, inside the trombone case and inside the box. Mark the outside with a permanent marker and take it to UPS. (Much cheaper for larger packages than the US Post Office.) Shipping and insurance is roughly about $20. Always insure. I always send the tracking tag number to the buyer via email or phone, so they can also track the package. Kenny Jay ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2168 Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 20:05:24 -0400 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Trombone History Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 8:48 AM -0700 9/30/01, David Oliver wrote: I've just been informed by a long time lister that the Backstrom trombone history page is lifted pretty much word or word from "The Grove Dictionary of Music" (Anthony Baines). Righto, and, as such, since there is no indication that permission was granted, it is a violation of copyright law and illegal. Backstrom's page does not use the New Grove II Dictionary as its source, but the New Grove "I" Dictionary. The New Grove II is available to purchase, either in print or in an online subscription - the print version is about $4000+ but an online subscription costs about $300 for one year. You can also get a free trial - 24 hours I think - by going to http://www.grovemusic.com Dave Oliver has talked about how he enjoys trombone history - it's a great subject but as David Guion has reminded us many times, caveat emptor! Not everything you read in print is truthful, useful or even helpful (care to join in here, David?!). The book by Anthony Baines, "Brass Instruments" Their History and Development" is not new (first published in 1973, most recently revised in 1993) is a good source for an overview of brass instruments although it has weaknesses. It's a Dover publication, about $10.00 (ISBN 0-486-27574-4). More recently, a new book (1997) edited by Trevor Herbert and John Wallace, "The Cambridge Companion to Brass Instruments" is proving to be very useful. It is a collection of 17 chapters on various aspects of brass instruments, each chapter by a different author. It covers the trombone in several chapters, although is short on drawings an photographs (however there is a nice photo of Christian Lindberg as "Grok" playing the Berio Sequenza V on page 257). It's published by Cambridge University Press (ISBN 0-521-565227). Clifford Bevan's new (2000) edition of "The Tuba Family" is a spectacular contribution to brass literature. While mostly devoted to the tuba and its ancestors and relations (including serpent, bass horn, ophicleide, bombardon, etc), there is more than a little about trombones including contrabass trombone, the "Trombone Basso Verdi," the cimbasso and such. Published by Piccolo Press (England), ISBN 1-872203-30-2. Finally, the most recent addition to trombone history which I've seen (2001) is "Le trombone travers les ages" by Benny Sluchin and Raymond Lapie (in French). It is lavishly illustrated with historical engravings and photographs as well as musical examples. Published by Buchet/Chastel, Paris (ISBN 2-283-01834-X). We often have a query on the list from a person doing a report on the trombone, wanting information about it they can find online. The bottom line is that the internet, for all of its strong points, is not the best place to do research of this nature. There is no substitute for your local library, or your local university or research library. And, if you're really serious about something, eventually you'll be putting together your own library (like Dave Oliver) of source materials about things which interest you. Collecting articles from scholarly journals, (not just the ITA Journal, which, because it is not peer reviewed, has more than a little poor scholarship in its pages despite its good intentions), reading reviews of books and getting the ones which interest you, or sometimes just buying blindly things which sound interesting all are part of developing a collection which can both inform you and give you great pleasure. On another note, it's nice to be back to the list after being off since June for the summer. I had a very nice time in Europe in late August/early September where I saw a number of list friends (including Adrian Drover, Howard Weiner, Tim Dowling and Howard Smith). Much to tell in coming weeks about things I saw and did (including making a new solo/duet recording with trombonist Nick Hudson, visiting numerous museums, etc). I returned home just a few days before September 11 when our lives all changed. The Boston Symphony begins its season tomorrow (I will be playing ophicleide on Mendelssohn's complete incidental music to "A Midsummer Night's Dream") and our program for the 2nd and 3rd weeks has been changed to the Berlioz "Requiem." More later... -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2168 Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 21:26:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Ralph L Holloway To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re:Discrimination against Trombones on Classical Radio Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII For a few years now I've set my dial to 107.5, and 102.5 FM in Mass. (Cape Cod) during our vacations. These stations play classical music 24 hours, 7 days a week. I have never once heard a trombone piece played. Curious as to why that was the case, I asked them, and want to share with you the answer I received, which frankly, I regard as a crock, given all of the same things described that are played with the trumpet, French horn, flute, violin, piano, etc, all except the voice, on these stations. I pointed to a number of CD's, Lindberg's, Slokar's, Sauer's Yeo's, Alessi's, but to no avail, not even a response. As I think about it, I can't recall ever hearing any trombone works on ANY classical station. These stations play mostly the same "chestnuts" and gradually, they are beginning to sound like musak (sp?). Clearly, they have some misguided ideas about the trombone and its repertoire, and I wonder if anything can be done to expand their horizons. Doug Yeo, you got some clout, surely? Ralph L. Holloway Dept. Anthropology Columbia University NY, NY 10027 212-854-4570 Fax= 212-854-7347 Web Page www.columbia.edu/~rlh2 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 13:00:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles River Broadcasting To: Ralph L Holloway Subject: Re: Classical selections...lack of response Dear Mr. Holloway...Thanks for your e mail..I'm sorry you were 'ignored'...but in truth, your e mail was the first time I can remember hearing from you. Regarding trombone music....The music we play on WFCC is very heavily researched...tested as to overall audience appeal with the listenership. The intent is to play the most appealing music to the widest audience over the longest period of time. There are many types of music within the structure of 'classical music" that don't strike a chord with listeners...these genres include opera...vocal music...contemporary serious classical music etc... Unfortunately the great majority of the trombone repertoire falls within the latter categories. The primary styles we play don't include the repertoire which contains most of the music for the trombone. WFCC does not 'discriminate'.... we are simply responding to the musical tastes of the majority of the listeners that make up our audience. This may lead to a shortening of playlists ... i.e. not exposing all the varied types and styles of music over the last 400 years...but we do so only because our audience seems to desire it. I realize this is disappointing news but I hope you can see our side of the issue... Best wishes and thanks for writing. Mario Mazza VP/Programming Charles River Broadcasting ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2168 Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 21:33:04 -0400 From: "Aaron Roth" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: strange Yahoo auction Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I personally was looking mostly at the valve design (since that was the original object of interest. I guess it's as effective as any other rotary mechanism, although I'm thinking that it would take more work to move it if it gets sticky. Just for the record, I'm not bidding on it. ;-) -Aaron Roth Temporary Lurker _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2168 Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 20:44:28 -0700 From: "James W. Yardley" To: "Trombone-L" Subject: orchestral excerpts Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List, I've come to the point in my college music career where I feel like I should get going on my orchestral excerpts. I was wondering how others have built there collection. Should I just go into the music library and photocopy like mad? Can you buy individual parts at a decent price somewhere? Any ideas/suggestions are much appreciated. Thanks for your help. James Yardley ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2168 Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 20:54:11 -0500 (EST) From: "Dr. Carole Nowicke, Applied Health Science" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Philadelphia trombones in Kalamazoo, Oct. 6th Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sorry I can't be there as Kalamazoo is awfully pretty this time of year. Philadelphia Orchestra trombone section in clinic/concert on October 6th at 3:30. Christian Griego from Edwards Trombones will be displaying some trombones beginning at 2:30. For more information contact Steve Wolfinbarger ------------ Carole Nowicke cnowicke@indiana.edu ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2168 Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 21:02:36 -0500 From: "Jeff Albert" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Radio programming, was Re:Discrimination against Trombones on Classical Radio Message-ID: <00d201c14a1d$24bf2c20$487b1442@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If it makes you feel any better, this happens on jazz radio too. Not so much that trombones are left out, but certain sub-styles of jazz are, just like in classical music. What you hear on the great majority of jazz stations was recorded before 1965, and the stuff that IS newer SOUNDS like it was recorded before 1965. Thus the circular logic arises that this is what people want to hear, because they don't know anything else, because this is all the radio stations play, because this is what people want to hear, because... Jeff Albert www.jeffalbert.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ralph L Holloway" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 8:26 PM Subject: Re:Discrimination against Trombones on Classical Radio > For a few years now I've set my dial to 107.5, and 102.5 > FM in Mass. (Cape Cod) during our vacations. These stations play classical > music 24 hours, 7 days a week. I have never once heard a trombone piece > played. Curious as to why that was the case, I asked them, and want to > share with you the answer I received, which frankly, I regard as a crock, > given all of the same things described that are played with the trumpet, > French horn, flute, violin, piano, etc, all except the voice, on these > stations. I pointed to a number of CD's, Lindberg's, Slokar's, Sauer's > Yeo's, Alessi's, but to no avail, not even a response. > > As I think about it, I can't recall ever hearing any trombone works on ANY > classical station. These stations play mostly the same "chestnuts" and > gradually, they are beginning to sound like musak (sp?). > > Clearly, they have some misguided ideas about the trombone and its > repertoire, and I wonder if anything can be done to expand their horizons. > > Doug Yeo, you got some clout, surely? > > > Ralph L. Holloway > Dept. Anthropology > Columbia University > NY, NY 10027 > 212-854-4570 > Fax= 212-854-7347 > Web Page www.columbia.edu/~rlh2 > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 13:00:17 -0400 (EDT) > From: Charles River Broadcasting > To: Ralph L Holloway > Subject: Re: Classical selections...lack of response > > > Dear Mr. Holloway...Thanks for your e mail..I'm sorry you were > 'ignored'...but in truth, your e mail was the first time I can remember > hearing from you. > > Regarding trombone music....The music we play on WFCC is very heavily > researched...tested as to overall audience appeal with the listenership. > The intent is to play the most appealing music to the widest audience over > the longest period of time. > > There are many types of music within the structure of 'classical music" > that don't strike a chord with listeners...these genres include > opera...vocal music...contemporary serious classical music etc... > Unfortunately the great majority of the trombone repertoire falls within > the latter categories. > > The primary styles we play don't include the repertoire which contains > most of the music for the trombone. WFCC does not 'discriminate'.... we > are simply responding to the musical tastes of the majority of the > listeners that make up our audience. This may lead to a shortening of > playlists ... i.e. not exposing all the varied types and styles of music > over the last 400 years...but we do so only because our audience seems to > desire it. > > I realize this is disappointing news but I hope you can see our side of > the issue... Best wishes and thanks for writing. > > Mario Mazza > VP/Programming > Charles River Broadcasting > > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2168 Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 21:26:31 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re:Discrimination against Trombones on Classical Radio Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010930210853.00b6b970@acticalc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 09:26 PM 9/30/2001 -0400, Ralph L Holloway wrote: For a few years now I've set my dial to 107.5, and 102.5 FM in Mass. (Cape Cod) during our vacations. These stations play classical music 24 hours, 7 days a week. I have never once heard a trombone piece played. Curious as to why that was the case, I asked them, and want to share with you the answer I received, <> Dear Mr. Holloway...Thanks for your e mail..I'm sorry you were 'ignored'...but in truth, your e mail was the first time I can remember hearing from you. The primary styles we play don't include the repertoire which contains most of the music for the trombone. WFCC does not 'discriminate'.... we are simply responding to the musical tastes of the majority of the listeners that make up our audience. This may lead to a shortening of playlists ... i.e. not exposing all the varied types and styles of music over the last 400 years...but we do so only because our audience seems to desire it. Just out of curiosity, are these stations for-profit? If so, do you know what corporation owns them? In the other segments of the radio industry, a massive consolidation has occurred. You may remember that it was only a few years ago that one company could own only 7 stations. In their infinite wisdom, the Contract with America crowd passed legislation that essentially eliminates any limits on ownership. We now have giant companies like Emmis and Clear Channel that own hundreds of stations and make programming decisions from afar. This came to light recently when Clear Channel, owner of over 1000 stations, sent out an edict that certain songs were no longer permitted after the 9/11/01 attack. These included such subversive works as Bridge Over Troubled Water and Give Peace a Chance. I don't know if these two stations are owned by one of the media giants. But even if they aren't, they are competing with those giant companies, which may account for such conservative programming practices. The best answer is to find a university station that will be responsive to its listeners. Stop patronizing corporations that are exercising powers in ways you can't agree with. I suppose this issue raises another important issue. Chances are that Mr. Mazza is correct in his assertion that the mainstream classical market isn't very adventurous. You might call this "smooth classical", as in the Kenny-G-ification of classical music. It seems to me the same thing happens with the programming of many major symphony orchestras, at least in the US. They know their patrons. They've been listening to the same 50 compositions for their entire lives. No time to change now. If this is happening in your town, then maybe it is time to stop patronizing orchestras that don't have a mission to expand the appreciation of all types of classical music. No perfect answers from here, I'm afraid. Craig Parmerlee ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2168 Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 22:24:16 -0400 From: Roger Hecht To: rlh2@columbia.edu, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re:Discrimination against Trombones on Classical Radio Message-ID: <4.2.2.20010930221420.00a4d9d0@pop.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 09:26 PM 9/30/2001 -0400, Ralph L Holloway wrote: For a few years now I've set my dial to 107.5, and 102.5 FM in Mass. (Cape Cod) during our vacations. These stations play classical music 24 hours, 7 days a week. I have never once heard a trombone piece played. Curious as to why that was the case, I asked them, and want to share with you the answer I received, which frankly, I regard as a crock, The the reply I realize this is disappointing news but I hope you can see our side of the issue... Best wishes and thanks for writing. Mario Mazza VP/Programming Charles River Broadcasting I didn't realize at first whom you were talking about. WCRB. Forget it. They're hopeless. I was upset with them for dropping the Metropolitan Opera broadcasts and received a similar reply. This group is one of many "classical" radio stations in the US that are in the process of dumbing down classical broadcasting. At one time WCRB was quite a decent station. Eventually, they were acquired by Charles River. As I understood it (and it's been a while), there was a clause put in the will of the former owner of the station requiring that WCRB remain classical and not be changed to some other format for X number of years. Thus, CRB is "stuck" with classical. Of course, just what classical is another question. Why the people who bought the station want it is beyond me, but I suppose that classical radio can make money in this format. Or they figure they can do what they wish with the station once the required classical period is over. Who knows. The point is, they don't play many kinds of music. They don't ignore just trombones. Believe me. I doubt you'd hear a Mahler Symphony or one by Shostakovich unless it's part of the few remaining concert broadcasts they carry. Those works are too long--not enough time for commercials. Programming on this station is quite narrow in scope. Mostly war horses (not too long, usually) and a lot of Baroque music. Nothing too adventurous, nothing too heavy, nothing too long. You do have one reason to question this, so listen for yourself: I don't listen to WCRB any more. For what it's worth, I've heard trombone pieces played on WGBH (public radio) and WHRB (Harvard University)--both out of range of the Cape as far as I know . These stations have much more adventurous programming than WCRB. And neither is a commercial station as WCRB is. Draw your own conclusions on that one. Roger Hecht ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2168 Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 21:31:39 -0500 From: "McFarland's" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re:Discrimination against Trombones on Classical Radio Message-ID: <003801c14a21$33e36000$794a4740@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lack of knowledge is the worst kind of discrimination!! ----- Original Message ----- From: Ralph L Holloway To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 8:26 PM Subject: Re:Discrimination against Trombones on Classical Radio > For a few years now I've set my dial to 107.5, and 102.5 > FM in Mass. (Cape Cod) during our vacations. These stations play classical > music 24 hours, 7 days a week. I have never once heard a trombone piece > played. Curious as to why that was the case, I asked them, and want to > share with you the answer I received, which frankly, I regard as a crock, > given all of the same things described that are played with the trumpet, > French horn, flute, violin, piano, etc, all except the voice, on these > stations. I pointed to a number of CD's, Lindberg's, Slokar's, Sauer's > Yeo's, Alessi's, but to no avail, not even a response. > > As I think about it, I can't recall ever hearing any trombone works on ANY > classical station. These stations play mostly the same "chestnuts" and > gradually, they are beginning to sound like musak (sp?). > > Clearly, they have some misguided ideas about the trombone and its > repertoire, and I wonder if anything can be done to expand their horizons. > > Doug Yeo, you got some clout, surely? > > > Ralph L. Holloway > Dept. Anthropology > Columbia University > NY, NY 10027 > 212-854-4570 > Fax= 212-854-7347 > Web Page www.columbia.edu/~rlh2 > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 13:00:17 -0400 (EDT) > From: Charles River Broadcasting > To: Ralph L Holloway > Subject: Re: Classical selections...lack of response > > > Dear Mr. Holloway...Thanks for your e mail..I'm sorry you were > 'ignored'...but in truth, your e mail was the first time I can remember > hearing from you. > > Regarding trombone music....The music we play on WFCC is very heavily > researched...tested as to overall audience appeal with the listenership. > The intent is to play the most appealing music to the widest audience over > the longest period of time. > > There are many types of music within the structure of 'classical music" > that don't strike a chord with listeners...these genres include > opera...vocal music...contemporary serious classical music etc... > Unfortunately the great majority of the trombone repertoire falls within > the latter categories. > > The primary styles we play don't include the repertoire which contains > most of the music for the trombone. WFCC does not 'discriminate'.... we > are simply responding to the musical tastes of the majority of the > listeners that make up our audience. This may lead to a shortening of > playlists ... i.e. not exposing all the varied types and styles of music > over the last 400 years...but we do so only because our audience seems to > desire it. > > I realize this is disappointing news but I hope you can see our side of > the issue... Best wishes and thanks for writing. > > Mario Mazza > VP/Programming > Charles River Broadcasting > > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2168 Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 21:36:59 -0500 From: "McFarland's" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Radio programming, was Re:Discrimination against Trombones on Classical Radio Message-ID: <004601c14a21$f263fda0$794a4740@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We in Iowa must be lucky (Is this heaven?). I frequently have the pleasure of listening to trombone music (classical and jazz... "oldies" and contemporary) transmitted by our local public radio station... WOI based at Iowa State University in Ames. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Albert To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 9:02 PM Subject: Radio programming, was Re:Discrimination against Trombones on Classical Radio > If it makes you feel any better, this happens on jazz radio too. Not so > much that trombones are left out, but certain sub-styles of jazz are, just > like in classical music. What you hear on the great majority of jazz > stations was recorded before 1965, and the stuff that IS newer SOUNDS like > it was recorded before 1965. Thus the circular logic arises that this is > what people want to hear, because they don't know anything else, because > this is all the radio stations play, because this is what people want to > hear, because... > > Jeff Albert > > www.jeffalbert.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ralph L Holloway" > To: "Trombones and related issues forum." > Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 8:26 PM > Subject: Re:Discrimination against Trombones on Classical Radio > > > > For a few years now I've set my dial to 107.5, and 102.5 > > FM in Mass. (Cape Cod) during our vacations. These stations play classical > > music 24 hours, 7 days a week. I have never once heard a trombone piece > > played. Curious as to why that was the case, I asked them, and want to > > share with you the answer I received, which frankly, I regard as a crock, > > given all of the same things described that are played with the trumpet, > > French horn, flute, violin, piano, etc, all except the voice, on these > > stations. I pointed to a number of CD's, Lindberg's, Slokar's, Sauer's > > Yeo's, Alessi's, but to no avail, not even a response. > > > > As I think about it, I can't recall ever hearing any trombone works on ANY > > classical station. These stations play mostly the same "chestnuts" and > > gradually, they are beginning to sound like musak (sp?). > > > > Clearly, they have some misguided ideas about the trombone and its > > repertoire, and I wonder if anything can be done to expand their horizons. > > > > Doug Yeo, you got some clout, surely? > > > > > > Ralph L. Holloway > > Dept. Anthropology > > Columbia University > > NY, NY 10027 > > 212-854-4570 > > Fax= 212-854-7347 > > Web Page www.columbia.edu/~rlh2 > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 13:00:17 -0400 (EDT) > > From: Charles River Broadcasting > > To: Ralph L Holloway > > Subject: Re: Classical selections...lack of response > > > > > > Dear Mr. Holloway...Thanks for your e mail..I'm sorry you were > > 'ignored'...but in truth, your e mail was the first time I can remember > > hearing from you. > > > > Regarding trombone music....The music we play on WFCC is very heavily > > researched...tested as to overall audience appeal with the listenership. > > The intent is to play the most appealing music to the widest audience over > > the longest period of time. > > > > There are many types of music within the structure of 'classical music" > > that don't strike a chord with listeners...these genres include > > opera...vocal music...contemporary serious classical music etc... > > Unfortunately the great majority of the trombone repertoire falls within > > the latter categories. > > > > The primary styles we play don't include the repertoire which contains > > most of the music for the trombone. WFCC does not 'discriminate'.... we > > are simply responding to the musical tastes of the majority of the > > listeners that make up our audience. This may lead to a shortening of > > playlists ... i.e. not exposing all the varied types and styles of music > > over the last 400 years...but we do so only because our audience seems to > > desire it. > > > > I realize this is disappointing news but I hope you can see our side of > > the issue... Best wishes and thanks for writing. > > > > Mario Mazza > > VP/Programming > > Charles River Broadcasting > > > > > > > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2168 Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 21:03:50 -0400 From: Gregg and Sharon To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: C-M: instrumental rentals Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010930205746.00a9e7b0@mail.speedline.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Gregg McCabe from the Pickering Community Concert Band. We have a set of timpani and a few other auxiliary percussion instruments and to date we have not charge a rental fee for them. Now, we have a free rehearsal and storage space made available to us by the Town of Pickering and our percussionists are taking care of the upkeep, so I suppose we've never seen the need for fees. If the user were to pay for the upkeep of the instruments then why charge a fee. At 10:25 PM 25/09/01 -0500, you wrote: Our band has been able to purchase some very nice timpani, a contra bass clarinet, baritone sax, and more thanks to some arts grants. There is some discussion going on about charging rent to those who would play these instruments. There are arguments regarding this, and I would like to know what other bands do about band owned instruments. Thanks for any help you can give. Sonja Rehbein North Suburban Concert Band >>> subscribe community-music by visiting: >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/community-music/join >>> unsubscribe community-music by visiting: >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups >>> The community-music home page: >>> http://boerger.org/c-m/ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ******************************************************************* Gregg L. McCabe (gssj@speedline.ca) Gregg's Home Page at Speedline Canada www.speedline.ca/gssj ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2168 Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 22:00:11 -0500 (EST) From: "Dr. Carole Nowicke, Applied Health Science" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Tenor and Bass trombones for sale Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Posting this for Robert Rusk who doesn't have email access. His address and phone number are at the end of the message. Carole Nowicke .............. For your information, I have for sale the following trombones: 1) 1953 King 2B "Silver-Sonic" (sterling silver bell), restored to like new condition in older King case and with bored out Bach 12 mouthpiece. The classic jazz and lead horn. $800 firm. 2) 1970 Conn 78H, among the last of the Elkhart Conns, in good, used cosmetic shape (some dents and scratches) but excellent playing condition. This horn is the best combination of four bells and four slides resulting in an unusually fine playing solo and chamber music instrument. $450. 3) 1937 Conn 70H bass trombone in silver plate with single rotor and tuning in slide. Recently restored to excellent condition in new replacement case. $1500. 4) 1983 Holton TR 281 bass trombone with double in-line rotors and 10" red-brass screw bell. This horn is in excellent playing condition adn very good cosmetic condition (no dents, some light surface scratches), in original Holton flat case. $1400. Robert Rusk 811 Blue Jay Lane Mishawaka, IN 46545 219-273-4615 ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2168 Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 23:07:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Ralph L Holloway To: Jeff Albert Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Radio programming, was Re:Discrimination against Trombones on Classical Radio Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Absolutely right on, but no, it doesn't make feel any better. Ralph L. Holloway Dept. Anthropology Columbia University NY, NY 10027 212-854-4570 Fax= 212-854-7347 Web Page www.columbia.edu/~rlh2 ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2168 Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 22:11:29 -0500 (CDT) From: Jonathan A Szopinski To: "James W. Yardley" Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: orchestral excerpts Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hickey's has a good selection of individual parts. www.hickeys.com -szopinski On Sun, 30 Sep 2001, James W. Yardley wrote: > List, > > I've come to the point in my college music career where I feel like I > should get going on my orchestral excerpts. I was wondering how others have > built there collection. Should I just go into the music library and > photocopy like mad? Can you buy individual parts at a decent price > somewhere? Any ideas/suggestions are much appreciated. Thanks for your > help. > > James Yardley > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2168 Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 23:15:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Ralph L Holloway To: Craig Parmerlee Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re:Discrimination against Trombones on Classical Radio Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 30 Sep 2001, Craig Parmerlee wrote: > > Just out of curiosity, are these stations for-profit? If so, do you know > what corporation owns them? In the other segments of the radio industry, a > massive consolidation has occurred. You may remember that it was only a > few years ago that one company could own only 7 stations. In their > infinite wisdom, the Contract with America crowd passed legislation that > essentially eliminates any limits on ownership. We now have giant > companies like Emmis and Clear Channel that own hundreds of stations and > make programming decisions from afar. Must be the case, judging from all the advertisements that are played (none with trombones, though). > > This came to light recently when Clear Channel, owner of over 1000 > stations, sent out an edict that certain songs were no longer permitted > after the 9/11/01 attack. These included such subversive works as Bridge > Over Troubled Water and Give Peace a Chance. > Wow. > I don't know if these two stations are owned by one of the media > giants. But even if they aren't, they are competing with those giant > companies, which may account for such conservative programming > practices. The best answer is to find a university station that will be > responsive to its listeners. Stop patronizing corporations that are > exercising powers in ways you can't agree with. > > I suppose this issue raises another important issue. Chances are that Mr. > Mazza is correct in his assertion that the mainstream classical market > isn't very adventurous. You might call this "smooth classical", as in the > Kenny-G-ification of classical music. It seems to me the same thing > happens with the programming of many major symphony orchestras, at least in > the US. They know their patrons. They've been listening to the same 50 > compositions for their entire lives. No time to change now. > Trouble is, it is difficult to find stations that are not for profit, ansd college stations, such WKCR in NY, while doing fine with jazz, seldom do much with classical. There isn't much else. And even WGBH doesn't play trombone classical, or at least I've never heard any. Ralph L. Holloway Dept. Anthropology Columbia University NY, NY 10027 212-854-4570 Fax= 212-854-7347 Web Page www.columbia.edu/~rlh2 ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2168 Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 23:20:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Ralph L Holloway To: Roger Hecht Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re:Discrimination against Trombones on Classical Radio Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 30 Sep 2001, Roger Hecht wrote: > > I didn't realize at first whom you were talking about. WCRB. Forget it. > They're hopeless. I was upset with them for dropping the Metropolitan Opera > broadcasts and received a similar reply. This group is one of many > "classical" radio stations in the US that are in the process of dumbing > down classical broadcasting. At one time WCRB was quite a decent station. > Eventually, they were acquired by Charles River. As I understood it (and > it's been a while), there was a clause put in the will of the former owner > of the station requiring that WCRB remain classical and not be changed to > some other format for X number of years. Thus, CRB is "stuck" with > classical. Of course, just what classical is another question. Why the > people who bought the station want it is beyond me, but I suppose that > classical radio can make money in this format. Or they figure they can do > what they wish with the station once the required classical period is over. > Who knows. The point is, they don't play many kinds of music. They don't > ignore just trombones. Believe me. I doubt you'd hear a Mahler Symphony or > one by Shostakovich unless it's part of the few remaining concert > broadcasts they carry. Those works are too long--not enough time for > commercials. Programming on this station is quite narrow in scope. Mostly > war horses (not too long, usually) and a lot of Baroque music. Nothing too > adventurous, nothing too heavy, nothing too long. You do have one reason to > question this, so listen for yourself: I don't listen to WCRB any more. Yes, that s it, exactly.No Shostakovich, no Prokofiev, and no trombones, not even R-K. > > For what it's worth, I've heard trombone pieces played on WGBH (public > radio) and WHRB (Harvard University)--both out of range of the Cape as far > as I know . These stations have much more adventurous programming than > WCRB. And neither is a commercial station as WCRB is. Draw your own > conclusions on that one. > Roger Hecht > Thanks, I am glad to hear that. WGHB is not out of Cape range, but Harvard is. Ralph L. Holloway Dept. Anthropology Columbia University NY, NY 10027 212-854-4570 Fax= 212-854-7347 Web Page www.columbia.edu/~rlh2 ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2168 Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 00:09:58 -0500 From: Angie Brunk To: rihecht@earthlink.net, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re:Discrimination against Trombones on Classical Radio Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" It occurs to me that it might contribute to the discussion if someone described the research techniques the radio stations were using to research listener tastes. I believe there are some working media professionals on the list who could provide the explanation. If not, I am studying mass media research right now, so I could provide basic explanation of what the station bean counters and researchers are thinking. (or not as the case may be.) Let me know if there is any interest. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2168 Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 00:53:59 -0500 From: Angie Brunk To: craig@acticalc.com, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re:Discrimination against Trombones on Classical Radio Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 9:26 PM -0500 9/30/01, Craig Parmerlee wrote: This came to light recently when Clear Channel, owner of over 1000 stations, sent out an edict that certain songs were no longer permitted after the 9/11/01 attack. These included such subversive works as Bridge Over Troubled Water and Give Peace a Chance. I hate to defend the corporate squashing of independent media. I think it is the single biggest threat to an active democracy. However, the UL that Clear Channel *corporate* circulated a list of banned songs is not true. A few program directors created the list and circulated it to other program directors. It was *not* a corporate mandate. http://www.snopes.com -- Angie Brunk-MLS Indiana University 1999 Graduate Student Indiana University School of Journalism "We believe, rather that what people read is deeply important; that ideas can be dangerous; but that supression of ideas is fatal to a democratic society. Freedom itself is a dangerous way of life, but it is ours." ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2168 Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 02:27:19 -0400 From: "Aaron Roth" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re:Discrimination against Trombones on Classical Radio Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed From: Angie Brunk Reply-To: angie@cybersolvers.com To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re:Discrimination against Trombones on Classical Radio Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 00:09:58 -0500 It occurs to me that it might contribute to the discussion if someone described the research techniques the radio stations were using to research listener tastes. I believe there are some working media professionals on the list who could provide the explanation. If not, I am studying mass media research right now, so I could provide basic explanation of what the station bean counters and researchers are thinking. (or not as the case may be.) Let me know if there is any interest. I'm interested. I have no additional information of use in this sub-thread, but I can contribute what I know of the radio in my area. In Atlanta, GA, USA, there is no commercial classical radio station. There is, instead, WABE FM 90.1, the public radio for the Atlanta area. While there is (here as everywhere) a healthy fare of Baroque flute sonaten, Mozart symphonies, and Chopin mazurkas, 90.1 has stood out for maintaining evening concert series broadcasts of symphony orchestras in America and abroad. Such pieces as Varse's "Amriques", "Ionisation", and "Arcana" have all been performed during these times, as have world premieres by Sallinen, Saariaho, Rautavaara, a trio of Norwegian composers (a piece named "Discharge" performed near the European west coast), and Birtwistle. I remember, in addition, when I was but a child, I heard a trombone concerto performed on that very station. All I recall of it was that it was very cool sounding, even to a wild-haired rascal, and a single descending line, rather rapid and arpeggiatic. Even during the day, Rimsky-Korsakov got regular performances, as did Kodaly and Barber and others of that period. I speak in the past because I have not listened to this station in three years. Atlanta is a pretty diverse area, and while the musical maturity of the city pales next to that of the big names, Atlanta is now becoming a home for session players and even composers. However, there remain large, semi-rural populations at the outskirts, and these communities are known to practice conservatism in its highest form. Doubtless they have been exerting pressure on WABE to keep the musical palette lite and accessible. Maybe a musician-run radio station could catch the interests of musicians. It would make no money, but the library could come from musicians' collections. Naturally this idea is not financially feasible, but it soothes the nerves to dream. I could supply the Xenakis, the Varse, and some Penderecki. -Aaron Roth _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2168 Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 08:46:32 +0100 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Radio programming, was Re:Discrimination against Trombones on Classical Radio Message-ID: <004d01c14a4d$486684e0$d90efd3e@kentondr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Jeff Albert" > If it makes you feel any better, this happens on jazz radio too. Not so > much that trombones are left out, but certain sub-styles of jazz are, just > like in classical music. Well, at least you have a jazz radio station. Here in Central Scotland, where maybe 90% of the population live, there is no jazz radio. With the coming of digital broadcasting, we were promised hundreds (thousands?) of stations to choose from, but still no jazz radio. When a new radio band becomes available, it's picked up by yet another country and western station. When I'm in the car, I have to entertain myself with Classic FM. Yes, it's wallpaper classic, but at least it's more relaxing to drive to than the jangle of the miriad of pop stations that play "music" that has no tune, no harmony, just a thumping bass drum beat that goes on for ever and ever. How the hell can anyone reap enjoyment from that? Adrian ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2168--