TROMBONE-L Digest 1977 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) RE: Same Part, Same Position? by "HICKS, JIM D" 2) RE: Same Part, Same Position? by "Richardson, Tim" 3) Re: Same Part, Same Position? by "Edward Solomon" 4) RE: Atlanta Symphony Principal Trombone Audition by "Richardson, Tim" 5) Houston 2nd trombone by Dave Molter 6) Re: Trombone stand horror stories by "Christopher Smith" 7) Ensemble playingm, was Re: Atlanta Symphony Principal Trombone Audition by Walter Barrett 8) alternates positions by Dave Molter 9) RE: Atlanta Symphony Principal Trombone Audition by "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> 10) RE: Atlanta Symphony Principal Trombone Audition by "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> 11) Re: alternates positions by Walter Barrett 12) Re: Same Part, Same Position? by "Adrian Drover" 13) FW: Ensemble playingm, was Re: Atlanta Symphony Principal Trombon e Audition by "Richardson, Tim" 14) Harmful speculation (was: Atlanta) by Douglas Yeo 15) RE: Same Part, Same Position? by "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> 16) Re: Atlanta Symphony Principal Trombone Audition by Walter Barrett 17) Re: Trombone stand horror stories by "Jeff Albert" 18) Re: Same Part, Same Position? by "Dennis Clason" 19) Re: alternates positions by "Chuck De Paolo" 20) Self-fulfilling Prophecy by Chris Waage 21) Re: Same Part, Same Position? by "Daniel Pliskin" 22) Re: Harmful speculation (was: Atlanta) by Brian French 23) Re: Atlanta Symphony , Houston Symphony by Gabriel Langfur 24) Re: Atlanta Symphony , Houston Symphony by Gabriel Langfur 25) List Problem? by Chris Waage 26) Re: Four of a Kind/ dynamics by "Jen and Andy Walls" 27) Re: alternates positions by sabutin@mindspring.com 28) Re: Four of a Kind/ dynamics omission by "Jen and Andy Walls" 29) RE: Same Part, Same Position? by sabutin@mindspring.com 30) Re: Atlanta Symphony Principal Trombone Audition by "Jen and Andy Walls" 31) Re: Harmful speculation (was: Atlanta) by James Scott 32) Incredible trumpet player Sergei Nakariakov by "Richardson, Tim" 33) RE: Atlanta Symphony Principal Trombone Audition by Dave Tall 34) Re: Incredible trumpet player Sergei Nakariakov by "Gary D. Maxwell" 35) Re: Four of a Kind/ dynamics by David Buckley 36) Bach 12 by "Anthony Lees" 37) Re: Incredible trumpet player Sergei Nakariakov by David Buckley 38) Re: Incredible trumpet player Sergei Nakariakov by "Paul D. Kemp Jr." 39) LOS ANGELES PHILHARMONIC MUSICIANS AT SYMPHONY CENTER by BassBonist@aol.com 40) RE: Harmful speculation (was: Atlanta) by "Joshua A. Sticklor-Lipson" 41) Re: Harmful speculation (was: Atlanta) by "Rod Ellard" 42) Orchestras versus the NBA by Craig Parmerlee 43) RE: Harmful speculation (was: Atlanta) by "Dale J. Cruse" 44) RE: TROMBONE-L digest 1976 by "Jim Jaffe" 45) RE:Atlanta by TboneGib@aol.com 46) RE: TROMBONE-L digest 1976 by "Dale J. Cruse" 47) Re: Incredible trumpet player Sergei Nakariakov by David Burch 48) Re: alternates positions by "Charles Perron" 49) Re: Harmful speculation (was: Atlanta) by "Darren Jukes" 50) CD-R orchestra scores? by Douglas Yeo 51) Re: Trombone stand horror stories by "Gary D. Maxwell" 52) RE: CD-R orchestra scores? by "Ian McKenzie" 53) RE: CD-R orchestra scores? by Douglas Yeo 54) RE:Atlanta by "Joshua A. Sticklor-Lipson" 55) Fwd: Incredible trumpet player Sergei Nakariakov by JFBermann@aol.com 56) Re: Four of a Kind/ dynamics by "Dave Wank" 57) Re: LOS ANGELES PHILHARMONIC MUSICIANS AT SYMPHONY CENTER by "Dave Wank" 58) Re: Atlanta Symphony Principal Trombone Audition by "Daniel Cloutier" 59) To Swing or not to Swing by William Dinwiddie 60) Re: To Swing or not to Swing by "Jeff Albert" 61) Re: LOS ANGELES PHILHARMONIC MUSICIANS AT SYMPHONY CENTER by BassBonist@aol.com 62) RE: LOS ANGELES PHILHARMONIC MUSICIANS AT SYMPHONY CENTER by "Gary Greenhoe" 63) finale by "Dave Wank" 64) Re: Atlanta Symphony , Houston Symphony by sabutin@mindspring.com 65) SV: Trombone stand horror stories by =?iso-8859-1?Q?Marius_Helg=E5?= 66) Todd Clontz. by T2PHXS@aol.com 67) Notepad (Finale) by "Dick Sleeman" 68) Re: alternates positions by "Hal Starkey" ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 07:49:47 -0500 From: "HICKS, JIM D" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Same Part, Same Position? Message-ID: <97248F13771FD31184690008C75DEBDA02E12322@cin-ex-w-4.dfas.mil> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" "...There are however two points to consider in the alternate position argument. 1. As a visual thing in a trombone feature, it would look more regimented if slide movement were choreographed..." Adrian, et.al. Well this did happen to me when I was in the Air Force Band (at Barksdale AFB). We did a "pass in review" for the base General's stand-in (a Captain - Generals don't do practice sessions) thought all the trombone slides needed to be "choreographed". We were ordered (by our Commander/Music Director) to move the slides in the same direction at the same time. He got upset when we played in unison stating "why aren't you playing your parts? Read the damn music". He was a violin player. The stand-in Captain was an admin. wienie. They just couldn't/wouldn't understand the need to play low C in 6th on a straight tenor. After all the fuss, we faked it in practice and went back to the original parts for the actual ceremony without telling anyone. The "General" said nothing and our Commander just looked confused. I really loved those days - almost like being in the movie "Mash". Jim Hicks ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 08:47:02 -0500 From: "Richardson, Tim" To: "'Adrian Drover'" , zemry@bellsouth.net, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Same Part, Same Position? Message-ID: <21E592FA8BA7D311B5B100062B001FE206F12BDC@LEE2> I generally match positions if there is a disagreement first time through. If I'm playing with someone more experienced than I, which is normally the case, I've noticed we tend to use the same alternates. This of course is enormously rewarding to my ego. If I play with someone less experienced, on a unison passage i will generally match them out of courtesy. If nobody can see you it doesn't matter as much, but if you are playing a big unison soli passage you might expect eyes on you. Have you ever noticed how much time string players spend marking bowings? I subbed not that long ago with an amateur but good orchestra. Despite weeks of rehearsals, ten minutes before going on stage string players were frantically comparing bowings and re-marking music. I confess I don't really understand it, unless that is part of their normal preparatory ritual. Of course they might put an eye out if they do it wrong, for us except on unison passages you are always moving different directions anyway. yours, Tim Richardson > -----Original Message----- > From: Adrian Drover [SMTP:slide.rule@adios.co.uk] > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 5:20 AM > To: zemry@bellsouth.net; Trombones and related issues forum. > Subject: Re: Same Part, Same Position? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard Zemry Johnson" > To: "Trombones and related issues forum." > Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2001 2:12 PM > Subject: Same Part, Same Position? > > > > Is it important that two players playing the same part use the same > > posaition to play notes? For example, should both players play D in > first > > position as opposed to one player playing it in first and one player > playing > > the note in 4th? I guess, what I'm asking is, should the timbre(?) > match? > > It depends on how fussy you or the section leader are. I regularly play > the > D in 4th and Bb/Db in 5th in a unison passage. The position I use depends > on where I am on the slide prior to playing that note. Usually, an > experienced player will do it the same way, whereas an inexperienced > player > will always go to the shortest position, even if it results in a whack on > the chops. After a few such whacks, they will usually discover the safer > way of doing it, unless they enjoy the masochistic approach to tromboning. > > There is a difference in timbre obviously, because by using an alternative > position, you are playing on a higher harmonic on a longer horn. > Personally, the difference in tone does not worry me in the slightest. > After all, it is unlikely that the section is playing on a matched set of > instruments anyway, and there is no chance of achieving a unified tone in > a > tenor/bass unison. The mix of tone in my mind just makes the music more > interesting. > > Do flute, oboe and clarinet players worry about unmatched timbre when they > player together in unison? I think not. How boring it would be if every > instrument of the orchestra sounded exactly the same. > > There are however two points to consider in the alternate position > argument. > 1. As a visual thing in a trombone feature, it would look more > regimented > if slide movement were choreographed. > 2. In going to a long position, you have to be certain you stop the > slide > in the right place. > > As to #1, I have never been requested to do this. > As to #2, the more you use alternatives, the more likely you are to play > them in tune. > > A. > > Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) > Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk > Business: studio@adios.co.uk > www.adios.co.uk > > > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 08:51:56 -0500 From: "Edward Solomon" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Same Part, Same Position? Message-ID: <002f01c0abc4$c51c9ba0$5b261d09@mkm.can.ibm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is, of course, the somewhat apocryphal story of the British military bandmaster who relegated the trombones to the practice room because they refused to play a unison passage using the same positions. This latter is rather impossible to achieve in the days of this tale, as the trombones were two tenors in Bb and one bass in G! __________________________________________ Edward Solomon (Bass Trombone) British Trombone Society Webmaster mailto:webmaster@trombone-society.org.uk Visit "The Trombonist Online" - the online magazine of the British Trombone Society http://www.trombone-society.org.uk __________________________________________ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 08:56:39 -0500 From: "Richardson, Tim" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Atlanta Symphony Principal Trombone Audition Message-ID: <21E592FA8BA7D311B5B100062B001FE206F12BDD@LEE2> In my ignorance I would have thought exactly the opposite. Ensemble playing is easy, solo playing is hard. Solo playing takes talent and years of hard work, ensemble playing takes attitude. I can play in an ensemble, my ego doesn't get in the way at all! but I will never be near the skill level. All you have to do to gain the attitude is decide. It is a one time committment to being a team player, then you're set for life. If it is so easy (and I think it is) why can't everyone do it? dunno, Tim Richardson > -----Original Message----- > From: Aaron Roth [SMTP:bassrange@hotmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 1:30 AM > To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu > Subject: Re: Atlanta Symphony Principal Trombone Audition > > I agree with Paul's analysis. I still can't figure out, though, where in > the audition process the separation between playing well ensemble-wise and > > just playing well occurs. Obviously, one has to play well to win an > audition. Apparently, one does not have to be an effective ensemble > player > to win an audition, though...but one DOES have to be an effective ensemble > > player to keep an ensemble job. I wonder if there's any way to edit the > audition process such that the player's ensemble skill becomes immediately > > perceptible to the committee, since the presently ubiquitous method merely > > determines fairly rapidly whether the prospective employee can play well > In > General. Again, we have pretty distinctly lined up differences between > ensemble ability and just playing ability. > -Aaron R. > P.S. Credit is due Rod Ellard, who first voiced some of the sentiment I > reflect in this post. > > > Paul said: > >Matt, > > Very well said. As a matter of fact, it would do everyone well to > read > >the article in the newest ITA Journal about the audition process > CAREFULLY. > >If you think about it, there's not that many players left who were solely > > >chosen by the music director. That would make for a very interesting > >thread. As my mother has told me many times, "You can't put old heads on > >young shoulders." The auditionees today are not bringing any experience > >with them to the job. What other profession is there where a 20 year old > >can make $100,000+ and not have finished his education? > > > >Paul Kemp > >Chattanooga Symphony > >www.trbnplyr.com > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 09:15:49 -0500 (EST) From: Dave Molter To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Houston 2nd trombone Message-ID: <382713779.984492949441.JavaMail.root@web621-wrb.mail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Randy Campora asked: "Has the Houston Second Trombone spot been figured out yet?" Yes --- the chair is between principal and bass. sorry ... Dave MEOlter ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 14:21:26 -0000 From: "Christopher Smith" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Trombone stand horror stories Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi, After a while these stories start to sound the same, but I still have something to add. Most of these accounts have been about crowded bandstands and unaware or clumsy bandmates. Being familiar with both, my logical approach for a few years has been to eliminate any chance of a horn on a stand being in danger. So on a gig last month playing in a museum, I was playing sousaphone but had to play trombone on one tune. Instead of keeping the trombone on the bandstand where there was a chance of it being damaged, I put it (on it's stand, at a safe height and with the slide over a leg) 10 feet behind the bandstand in a secure area where no one could possibly knock it over. Wrong. Midway through the set, someone in the band backed into their unused chair and sent it careening off the stage, bouncing 15 feet directly towards the trombone, where it hit at the precise angle with exactly the force needed to knock it over. Now my attitude is becoming, "if I'm not playing it, it stays in the case". Even if it slows a show down. Otherwise, this kind of thing will continue to happen. I've had 2 really unique and special horns damaged by being knocked over as a result of someone else's carelessness. Later, Chris www.geocities.com/bourbonstreet/2418 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 09:32:43 -0500 From: Walter Barrett To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Ensemble playingm, was Re: Atlanta Symphony Principal Trombone Audition Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 3/13/01 8:56 AM, Richardson, Tim at richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL sent forth into the cosmos: > In my ignorance I would have thought exactly the opposite. > > Ensemble playing is easy, solo playing is hard. Solo playing takes talent > and years of hard work, ensemble playing takes attitude. I can play in an > ensemble, my ego doesn't get in the way at all! but I will never be > near the skill level. All you have to do to gain the attitude is decide. > It is a one time committment to being a team player, then you're set for > life. > > If it is so easy (and I think it is) why can't everyone do it? > dunno, > Tim Richardson Tim- At the level that it takes to play in an orchestra like Atlanta, and even less prestigious groups, it takes the ability of a soloist, plus a willingness to submit to the conductor's interpretation, plus the ability to get along with the rest of the brass section, both musically and politically. Bill Vacchiano told me about an audition for trumpet at the NY Phil, where they went through scads of trumpet players. They could all play whatever notes they had to, but they didn't have the right sound. They thought it might have been the room they were in, so Phil Smith got his horn, went behind the screen, and played. Well, it wasn't the room's fault, they just didn't have the tone concept/sound to match/compliment the section. Listen to a great second player in a section, whether it's Vince Penzerella (2nd tpt, NY Phil), or Norman Bolter (2nd trb, Boston), or whoever. They certainly have the ability to be world-class soloists, but when they sit next to the principal, their sound, phrasing, intonation, everything matches what the first player does, to the point that it sounds like one person. That, IMHO, is extremely hard to do! And, it has to be done not only with the section, but with the entire group. Walter Barrett Yamaha Artist/Clinician Tenor, Alto, Bass Trombones Euphonium Bass Trumpet Tuba ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 09:34:27 -0500 (EST) From: Dave Molter To: slide.rule@adios.co.uk Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: alternates positions Message-ID: <385841852.984494067509.JavaMail.root@web538-wrb> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On the matching of slide positions, I have to agree with Adrian Drover when he says, "The position I use depends on where I am on the slide prior to playing that note." My teacher is an advocate of alternates, and I use them often, both in valve register and out of it. And after reading Alan Raph's bass trombone book, I've come to use the valve in the so-called "non-valve register." I do, however, play with many men and women who were music majors and they invariably opt for the "standard" position, no matter how much slide movement it entails. Apparently it depends on how much this point was driven home by your teacher. I suppose there is some argument to be made that the "home" position sounds more true, but I think that a passing note of short duration will not be harmed by playing it in the alternate. When I played Gilbert & Sullivan's "The Gondoliers" last month, a short passage called for Ds and octave apart over eight bars. I played the pattern in 4th position, my partner invariably played low D in 4th, high D in 1st. And he seemed to struggle with it. I asked, "Why don't you play it in 4th?" His response: "4th position isn't good for me." Now, maybe he knows his horn well or his ability even better, but I could not tell the difference when he tried it my way. He was trained by two symphonic players who advocate the "home position" in all situations. Personally, I have made great use of alternates, particularly between 4th and 5th instead of whacking the slide all over the place. Bb, C# and E all are available in 5th, so why not use them? I also have great success using the valve for fast passages that would lay just fine on a valved instrument. For example, our concert last week called for rapid triplets between Bb and Eb above it. I used the valve rather than try to throw the slide between 1st and 3rd, and the articulation of the passage improved immediately. Dave Molter ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 08:49:32 -0600 From: "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Atlanta Symphony Principal Trombone Audition Message-ID: <5001B9A54416D51180E200B0D079086310F75E@COCONUT> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > What other profession is there where a 20 year old can make $100,000+ and > not have finished his education? Basketball, for one, except you'd have to add another zero to the end of your figure. ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ David Guion, Cataloger John Marshall Law School 315 S. Plymouth Ct. Chicago, IL 60604 Voice: (312) 427-2737 x 552 Fax; (312) 427-8307 8guion@jmls.edu Should part-time band directors be called semi-conductors? ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ > ---------- > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 08:52:16 -0600 From: "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Atlanta Symphony Principal Trombone Audition Message-ID: <5001B9A54416D51180E200B0D079086310F75F@COCONUT> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > to win an audition, though...but one DOES have to be an effective ensemble > > player to keep an ensemble job. I wonder if there's any way to edit the > audition process such that the player's ensemble skill becomes immediately > > perceptible to the committee, since the presently ubiquitous method merely > > determines fairly rapidly whether the prospective employee can play well > You mean that finalists don't regularly play excerpts with the rest of the section they'll be joining as part of the audition process? Weird! ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ David Guion, Cataloger John Marshall Law School 315 S. Plymouth Ct. Chicago, IL 60604 Voice: (312) 427-2737 x 552 Fax; (312) 427-8307 8guion@jmls.edu Should part-time band directors be called semi-conductors? ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:01:52 -0500 From: Walter Barrett To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: alternates positions Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 3/13/01 9:34 AM, Dave Molter at kingbone@earthlink.net sent forth into the cosmos: > Personally, I have made great use of alternates, particularly between 4th > and 5th instead of whacking the slide all over the place. Bb, C# and E all > are available in 5th, so why not use them? > > I also have great success using the valve for fast passages that would lay > just fine on a valved instrument. For example, our concert last week called > for rapid triplets between Bb and Eb above it. I used the valve rather than > try to throw the slide between 1st and 3rd, and the articulation of the > passage improved immediately. > > Dave Molter > Dave- You've discovered the best reason for using alternates! MAKE THE MUSIC BETTER! Those who advocate the "home position at any cost" approach USUALLY have not spent the time and effort trying to make alternates work for them. Sure, the first time you try to play a Bb in 5th it sounds weird, but the more you work at it, the less difference there is. That gets rid of the "but, the tone isn't as pure" defense. Sit down with an exercise/tune that you feel comfortable with. Something in Eb works good for a start. Play through it, WITHOUT using 1st position (except for low Bb on a straight tenor). Make it sound as good as when you play it in "normal" positions. That'll wake you up to your own abilities! -- Walter Barrett "When trombones are outlawed, only outlaws will have trombones!" Yamaha Artist/Clinician Tenor, Alto, Bass Trombones Euphonium Bass Trumpet Tuba ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 14:51:33 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: "Richardson, Tim" , , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Same Part, Same Position? Message-ID: <003301c0abce$92a25a20$4e0bfd3e@q9y6f8> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richardson, Tim" To: "'Adrian Drover'" ; ; "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 1:47 PM Subject: RE: Same Part, Same Position? > Have you ever noticed how much time string players spend marking bowings? I > subbed not that long ago with an amateur but good orchestra. Despite weeks > of rehearsals, ten minutes before going on stage string players were > frantically comparing bowings and re-marking music. I confess I don't > really understand it, unless that is part of their normal preparatory > ritual. I would say it is much more important for string players to bow in unison than it is for trombonists to use the same position. Bowing marks are important in phrasing and articulation. Also a downbow is more forceful than an upbow, therefore phrases starting on a strong beat usually start on a down bow, while those starting on a weak beat and cresendos have an upbow marking. It is usually the job of the concert master to decide on the correct bowing to be used. As an arranger, I indicate bowing marks into my scores, but usually find out later that some have been altered in pencil by the string section leaders. I guess they know better than I when it comes to scraping, but I bet they don't know I can play Bb in 5th position. A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk www.adios.co.uk ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:07:48 -0500 From: "Richardson, Tim" To: "'bonepost'" Subject: FW: Ensemble playingm, was Re: Atlanta Symphony Principal Trombon e Audition Message-ID: <21E592FA8BA7D311B5B100062B001FE206F12BE3@LEE2> > -----Original Message----- > From: Richardson, Tim > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 9:55 AM > To: 'Walter Barrett' > Subject: RE: Ensemble playingm, was Re: Atlanta Symphony Principal > Trombone Audition > > Walter, > > I do not disagree with anything you say. But I think the factor that > interferes with ensemble playing has little or nothing to do with > technical ability, and everything to do with ego, attitude, and > committment. Technical ability is a given at those levels, probably at a > proficiency I am not even able to appreciate; but bad attitudes are > universal. I work with maintenance mechanics and appreciate them very > well!! ( I work with government mechanics who have been contracted > out and will all lose their jobs in the next two months; most of them are > in their 50's and have worked here all their lives. Gives a new meaning > to "bad attitude." Even so, a few of them are still team players. And > they're looking for jobs - wonder if any of them want to move to Atlanta.) > > One test for a team player is warmup. Does he blast away oblivious to the > havoc he wreaks? Or does he considerately use a practice mute? If you > suggest using one, does he say, no, I'll never compromise MY standards, > that would make ME play less than MY best? Or does he also value making > the group play THEIR best? (Pet peeve of mine.) > > yours, > Tim Richardson > > -----Original Message----- > From: Walter Barrett [SMTP:wbarrett@bestweb.net] > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 9:33 AM > To: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL; Trombones and related issues forum. > Subject: Ensemble playingm, was Re: Atlanta Symphony Principal > Trombone Audition > > on 3/13/01 8:56 AM, Richardson, Tim at richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL sent forth > into > the cosmos: > > > In my ignorance I would have thought exactly the opposite. > > > > Ensemble playing is easy, solo playing is hard. Solo playing takes > talent > > and years of hard work, ensemble playing takes attitude. I can play in > an > > ensemble, my ego doesn't get in the way at all! but I will never > be > > near the skill level. All you have to do to gain the attitude is > decide. > > It is a one time committment to being a team player, then you're set for > > life. > > > > If it is so easy (and I think it is) why can't everyone do it? > > dunno, > > Tim Richardson > > Tim- > > At the level that it takes to play in an orchestra like Atlanta, and even > less prestigious groups, it takes the ability of a soloist, plus a > willingness to submit to the conductor's interpretation, plus the ability > to > get along with the rest of the brass section, both musically and > politically. > > Bill Vacchiano told me about an audition for trumpet at the NY Phil, where > they went through scads of trumpet players. They could all play whatever > notes they had to, but they didn't have the right sound. They thought it > might have been the room they were in, so Phil Smith got his horn, went > behind the screen, and played. Well, it wasn't the room's fault, they just > didn't have the tone concept/sound to match/compliment the section. > > Listen to a great second player in a section, whether it's Vince > Penzerella > (2nd tpt, NY Phil), or Norman Bolter (2nd trb, Boston), or whoever. They > certainly have the ability to be world-class soloists, but when they sit > next to the principal, their sound, phrasing, intonation, everything > matches > what the first player does, to the point that it sounds like one person. > That, IMHO, is extremely hard to do! And, it has to be done not only with > the section, but with the entire group. > > Walter Barrett > > Yamaha Artist/Clinician > Tenor, Alto, Bass Trombones > Euphonium > Bass Trumpet > Tuba ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:08:48 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Harmful speculation (was: Atlanta) Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I'd like to point out that the kind of speculation that has been going on in some posts regarding the Atlanta Symphony job is both unfair and potentially harmful to the person in the position. To speculate as to why a person did not get tenure, or to pass on gossip or rumors about such is to quite possibly leave out huge factors which came to bear in the situation. The person who had the position will likely look for another one and it is not fair - in my opinion - to saddle him with a "stigma" of the rumors which have been swirling around on the list. The fact is that we on the list don't know a thing about the situation. Nobody on the list knows the "real story." Only the conductor, the audition committee and the individual involved knows that. And contractually, the conductor and audition committee must keep their discussion confidential. Is it too much to suggest that we leave out the harmful speculation about a particular individual and instead concentrate on things we know about or opinions which can be fairly discussed within the context of our own experience or knowledge. Not meaning to be heavy with this, but hurting a person's reputation - however "innocent" the intention may have been - is serious. -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 09:06:22 -0600 From: "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Same Part, Same Position? Message-ID: <5001B9A54416D51180E200B0D079086310F760@COCONUT> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Within the context of an entire band or orchestra sonority, who's going to notice a difference in sound if two trombonists are playing the same note in different positions? This year in Prairie Brass Band, we have five trombonists, a big change from our first two years, when we had two who showed up regularly and a succession of others who had no intention of becoming permanent members of the band!). As section leader, if I have figured out slide positions that work well for a particular passage, I will suggest them to the others. I would like to think that if the others use those positions, it's because they, too, find that they work well, not to be polite to me. If all the notes are in tune and on time, that's what matters--whether we use the same positions or not. ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ David Guion, Cataloger John Marshall Law School 315 S. Plymouth Ct. Chicago, IL 60604 Voice: (312) 427-2737 x 552 Fax; (312) 427-8307 8guion@jmls.edu Should part-time band directors be called semi-conductors? ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:10:07 -0500 From: Walter Barrett To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Atlanta Symphony Principal Trombone Audition Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 3/13/01 9:49 AM, Guion, David at 8guion@jmls.edu sent forth into the cosmos: >> What other profession is there where a 20 year old can make $100,000+ and >> not have finished his education? > Basketball, for one, except you'd have to add another zero to the end of > your figure. Well, since I'm in my 40's, does that mean I should be making twice as much? Heck, I'd settle for half as much! Of course, in basketball and music, only the extremely talented get to make that much, so young. The rest of us get to play pickup games for the love of it... -- Walter Barrett "When trombones are outlawed, only outlaws will have trombones!" Yamaha Artist/Clinician Tenor, Alto, Bass Trombones Euphonium Bass Trumpet Tuba ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 09:19:20 -0600 From: "Jeff Albert" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Trombone stand horror stories Message-ID: <001d01c0abd0$fb0f3900$a6db1542@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Instead of keeping the trombone on the > bandstand where there was a chance of it being damaged, I put it (on it's > stand, at a safe height and with the slide over a leg) 10 feet behind the > bandstand in a secure area where no one could possibly knock it over. Wrong. That is precisely why I keep my horn on a stand on the stage right next to me. So I can see and reach it. Jeff Albert www.jeffalbert.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 08:47:53 -0800 From: "Dennis Clason" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Same Part, Same Position? Message-ID: <003001c0abdd$591f00a0$0d2b7b80@nmsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Is it important that two players playing the same part use the same > posaition to play notes? For example, should both players play D in first > position as opposed to one player playing it in first and one player playing > the note in 4th? I guess, what I'm asking is, should the timbre(?) match? Timbre should match, sort of. Sort of, because everybody has their own sound. What is more important is that players understand the instrument. In sharp keys, for example, D is usually unacceptably flat in 1st position. (Exception -- players who tune a couple of cents sharp and have room to pull the slide in and hence the pitch up.) Use 4th so you can raise the pitch enough. Dennis ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 11:05:37 -0500 From: "Chuck De Paolo" To: "Trombone List" Subject: Re: alternates positions Message-ID: <00e601c0abd7$71989fc0$0200a8c0@ws2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have long considered D above the staff to be "home" in 4th position. First position D in that octave is technically flat on the trombone, at least any that I've ever owned (including a old sprung Elkhart 88H.) Yea, it makes sense in many key-of-Bb passages to stay in first, but a great deal of the rest of the time, D in 4th is a blessing. Plus, I personally think it sounds more clear in 4th. 1st position D has always had a note of stuffiness to my ear. In the excerpt below, I agree with Dave 100%. It's crazy to play octave D's 1-4-1-4-1-4-1-4. You own stock in Slide-O-Mix? The other thing I stay away from when teaching younger players in the word "alternate." What better way to demonstrate to your student that a position is a secondary (and thus in their mind, less satisfactory) choice than to call them alternate? I simply call them "another," as in, "You should play Bb in 1st, and another place for Bb is 5th." Okay, in a court of law perhaps a statement like that implies "alternate," but the point is not driven home by using such a loaded word as alternate. During the lesson I insist they use the best position for the note, regardless of the position number, and not just occasionally run out say to 5th for a Bb just to prove they can do it. Best position is determined by tone quality and technical ease of execution. FWIW... ---Chuck > I suppose there is some argument to be made that the "home" position sounds > more true, but I think that a passing note of short duration will not be > harmed by playing it in the alternate. When I played Gilbert & Sullivan's > "The Gondoliers" last month, a short passage called for Ds and octave apart > over eight bars. I played the pattern in 4th position, my partner invariably > played low D in 4th, high D in 1st. And he seemed to struggle with it. I > asked, "Why don't you play it in 4th?" His response: "4th position isn't > good for me." > > Now, maybe he knows his horn well or his ability even better, but I could > not tell the difference when he tried it my way. He was trained by two > symphonic players who advocate the "home position" in all situations. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 09:56:55 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: Self-fulfilling Prophecy Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" How many times do you give thought to what you say about your abilities? I had a kid studying with me who had chops, musical sense and great tone. In 8th grade, he was hitting high Db's (as in "Bolero") with no pressure and a good tone. He used to say, "I just never do well at music festival." We'd start working on a solo in January, then swimming would start and lessons would be cancelled. I would ask him how the solo was coming, and his reply was usually, "Well, because of swimming, I just don't have much practice time." The actual lessons were usually spent chasing notes in the solo, rather than working on musicality issues. Music Festival was in late March, so about mid-March, he'd start working like a madman. He'd get with his accompanist about a week before, and play through it a couple times. The best he ever received was a II (as a junior in high school), and that was on a Grade 3 solo (he should have been playing Grade 4+ or5). At the next lesson, I asked him, "Why do you think you got a II?" His reply, "Well, I just never do well at music festival." I watched this pattern for three years, then he changed teachers thinking that perhaps a new teacher would fix the problem. His senior year, he took the David Concerto, and received a III. When I asked him about it afterwards, what do you think he said? "I just never do well at music festival." Instead of looking at the cause, he looked at the end result. Chris -- ________________________________________________ Chris Waage chris@trombone.org Associate Webmaster The Online Trombone Journal http://www.trombone.org ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 15:58:48 From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Same Part, Same Position? Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Do flute, oboe and clarinet players worry about unmatched timbre when they player together in unison? Adrian, I thought you had all kinds of orchestral experience and then you go and talk about oboe players playing in unison? Yes, oboe players worry. They/we worry about everything. Murphy?s Law plays big with oboe players. I often wonder what heavy karmic load I picked up, to have me be an oboe player, in this life. Fortunately, I paid some of that burden off and was able to move on to English horn. Oops, religious content?sorry, y?all DanP _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 11:00:29 -0500 From: Brian French To: yeo@yeodoug.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Harmful speculation (was: Atlanta) Message-ID: <3AAE441D.5040709@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Douglas Yeo wrote: I'd like to point out that the kind of speculation that has been going on in some posts regarding the Atlanta Symphony job is both unfair and potentially harmful to the person in the position. To speculate as to why a person did not get tenure, or to pass on gossip or rumors about such is to quite possibly leave out huge factors which came to bear in the situation. The person who had the position will likely look for another one and it is not fair - in my opinion - to saddle him with a "stigma" of the rumors which have been swirling around on the list . . . The principal trombonist in the Atlanta Symphony does indeed already have a position lined up for next season. Quite obviously he is a fantastic musician, as we all know orchestra positions aren't just handed out. The ASO apparently feels that it is our business to know that there is a vacancy in their orchestra. They advertised it in the paper. If they felt it was our business to know WHY, they would have advertised that too. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 08:04:02 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Atlanta Symphony , Houston Symphony Message-ID: <20010313160402.66253.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Rod Ellard wrote: > To a disinterested observer, the whole audition process seems rather > amusing. All this effort to level the playing field so that a 100 or > so guys with virtually identical experience and background apply, of > whom only a few will be asked to attend, and who will play the same > half dozen or so excerpts which they've been working on for a few > years, and then no one can decide who to hire so they hang on to the > guy who has been playing the part as "acting" this or that, only to > repeat the process again later because you can't give the job to the > guy who has been doing it etc. etc. Or they hire someone, and then > find out that he "can't play in an ensemble". What does that mean I > wonder? If everyone is playing the right notes, at the right > dynamic, in the right rhythm, and in tune (all of which is easier > than it first appears, I'll admit, but, for example, you've only been > working on your big moment in The Ride since you were 17!) doesn't > playing together more or less fall into place. Or did they find out > that he can't read tenor clef or did he spray his slide when the > conductor made his big entrance? > > And all this in order to hire a guy who doesn't have to do much > except count bars rest and come in on time when he has a few notes to > play! > > Rod > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 08:06:02 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Atlanta Symphony , Houston Symphony Message-ID: <20010313160602.81701.qmail@web10311.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Rod, you've posted things like this before if I recall, and I still resent your characterization of the skills necessary to play trombone at a high level in an orchestral situation. I think it's just as insulting as saying that Jazz players don't need to be able to play their instruments as well as classical players. Gabe --- Rod Ellard wrote: > To a disinterested observer, the whole audition process seems rather > amusing. All this effort to level the playing field so that a 100 or > so guys with virtually identical experience and background apply, of > whom only a few will be asked to attend, and who will play the same > half dozen or so excerpts which they've been working on for a few > years, and then no one can decide who to hire so they hang on to the > guy who has been playing the part as "acting" this or that, only to > repeat the process again later because you can't give the job to the > guy who has been doing it etc. etc. Or they hire someone, and then > find out that he "can't play in an ensemble". What does that mean I > wonder? If everyone is playing the right notes, at the right > dynamic, in the right rhythm, and in tune (all of which is easier > than it first appears, I'll admit, but, for example, you've only been > working on your big moment in The Ride since you were 17!) doesn't > playing together more or less fall into place. Or did they find out > that he can't read tenor clef or did he spray his slide when the > conductor made his big entrance? > > And all this in order to hire a guy who doesn't have to do much > except count bars rest and come in on time when he has a few notes to > play! > > Rod > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:26:59 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: List Problem? Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Anybody receiving duplicate posts? Chris -- ________________________________________________ Chris Waage chris@trombone.org Associate Webmaster The Online Trombone Journal http://www.trombone.org ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 12:03:11 -0500 From: "Jen and Andy Walls" To: "Trombone-L List" , "Gabriel Langfur" Subject: Re: Four of a Kind/ dynamics Message-ID: <005401c0abdf$7d172760$30471bd0@0016344132> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I'm curious, what did Blair Bollinger do when the altos were on? Did he > change around equipment, or did he simply change color? He's got such a > wide sound normally (at least on his CD and the one time I heard him in > a masterclass), I wonder what his strategy was. I took one of my students to the concert and she, I'm proud to say, noticed one way he altered his sound. Mind you she is in 5th grade, so you can imagine how impressed I was when she said to me, "I like how Mr. Bollinger tilts his bell up to face us when he's playing big or down to the ground when he wants to sound quieter." There were some other subtle movements by the players that added to the overall quality. We sat in the second row so we could see it all. For example, when Mr. Alessi played a "solo" that he wanted to bring out, he would move ever so slightly forward from his usual position and make sure his bell was facing between or over the stands. On big fat chords, they would all turn their bells directly to the audience. They used mutes very effectively (I hope I used the right word - affect vs. effect). It added a nice dimension to the sound palette. A lot of composers use mutes just to make us softer. That's a shame. Because the mute can do so much more. Speaking of softer, I have a soap box to get on so I'll start a new paragraph. These guys could play loud (and soft). And it sounded good, no it sounded great. Maybe it's just where I grew up, but most of the school groups and local groups have a problem with that kind of sound. I always hear the teachers or directors saying "don't blare," or "tone it down," or "you're overblowing." Now I don't want to get into a discussion about a Haydn forte vs. a Mahler forte. That's not what I'm talking about. Well, in a way it is, our groups play with all one dynamic range regardless of the piece. When I think about the different classes of instruments in western music I see that each classification has a "big ticket" that makes it really cool and sort of unique. For example, the strings all sound similar and can play so soft and fast that it boggles the mind sometimes. The woodwinds have different tone colors, that's the thing that in my mind makes them so appealing to an audience and separates them from the other instruments. The brasses sound similar in quality and can play loud like no other instrument. That's our "big ticket" item. I know we can do other things, but I'm talking about the one thing that separates us from the others. Why don't we take advantage of that. I know when I hear a good orchestra play or a good brass band, they do. So why do we constantly teach our kids to "tone it down?" Is it easier to say that than to explain "when to tone it down" or "how to play loud with a good tone quality?" I'm not saying that we shouldn't play soft too, what I'm saying is, why is our brass instrument dynamic range as a whole limited to the scale of 1-7 when there are 8, 9, and 10 available yet? Does anyone else have experience with this? I love playing with the Harrisburg Symphony because I get to experience all the possibilities dynamically. But that's once a month, then I go back home to the everyday, local things and if I play a big forte, I'll stick out like a sore thumb because I'm the only one. I'm positive that the other brass players could play louder if someone would encourage them and teach them how to do it, but they are always discouraged from doing that. I can remember one director, after we finished running through a piece in rehearsal, said "lets try to play softer and use a good tone quality." I find young players that can't tell the difference between timbre, dynamics, tempo, etc. And I believe they get that from a director after director who can not either. Loud does not have to mean "bad tone quality." We need to separate the two so less experienced musicians will understand the difference and not automatically assume that loud is crass and soft is quality. I hope this is related to the trombone sufficiently to warrant discussion on the trombone-L. After all, the director is usually talking to the trombones when she says "don't overblow." ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 11:57:49 -0500 From: sabutin@mindspring.com To: "Chuck De Paolo" Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: alternates positions Message-ID: <200103131659.LAA00037@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 11:05 AM 3/13/01 -0500, you wrote: >I have long considered D above the staff to be "home" in 4th position. ========================== I go even further than that... In the range above 4th partial Bb, I consider 3rd and 4th positions to be the "1st" position, 1st and 2nd positions to be the "2nd" position, 5th + 6th positions to be the "3rd" position, and 7th position to be almost useless. There's a longer version of this idea available on the Online Trombone Journal at , and I spend about 50 pages on it in my method book, but basically if you consider D above middle C to be a sort of pivot note in the keys of A, D, G, C, F, Bb, + Eb major, when you habitually play that note in 4th position, it suggests "alternate" positions above and below it...above, E + F in #5th + #4th, F# + G in 5th +4th, A + Bb in 4th+3rd, etc, and below, Bb + A in 5th + 6th, F + E in 6th + 7th...these all make scalar movement MUCH easier + smoother. Further, particularly in situations where you're not really sure what your next note is going to be...sight reading, under rehearsed performances (almost a given in most of the professional world), and particularly when improvising...staying around 3rd + 4th positions puts you w/in easy striking distance of almost any note on the horn. The KEY note to all of this in D above middle C in 4th position. ============================= >First position D in that octave is technically flat on the trombone, at >least any that I've ever owned (including a old sprung Elkhart 88H.)Ê Yea, >it makes sense in many key-of-Bb passages to stay in first, but a great deal >of the rest of the time, D in 4th is a blessing.Ê Plus, I personally think >it sounds more clear in 4th.Ê 1st position D has always had a note of >stuffiness to my ear. ======================= Me too. Later... S. ========================== > >In the excerpt below, I agree with Dave 100%.Ê It's crazy to play octave D's >1-4-1-4-1-4-1-4.Ê You own stock in Slide-O-Mix? > >The other thing I stay away from when teaching younger players in the word >"alternate."Ê What better way to demonstrate to your student that a position >is a secondary (and thus in their mind, less satisfactory) choice than to >call them alternate?Ê I simply call them "another," as in, "You should play >Bb in 1st, and another place for Bb is 5th."Ê Okay, in a court of law >perhaps a statement like that implies "alternate," but the point is not >driven home by using such a loaded word as alternate.Ê During the lesson I >insist they use the best position for the note, regardless of the position >number, and not just occasionally run out say to 5th for a Bb just to prove >they can do it.Ê Best position is determined by tone quality and technical >ease of execution. > >FWIW... > >---Chuck > >> I suppose there is some argument to be made that the "home" position >sounds >> more true, but I think that a passing note of short duration will not be >> harmed by playing it in the alternate. When I played Gilbert & Sullivan's >> "The Gondoliers" last month, a short passage called for Ds and octave >apart >> over eight bars. I played the pattern in 4th position, my partner >invariably >> played low D in 4th, high D in 1st. And he seemed to struggle with it. I >> asked, "Why don't you play it in 4th?" His response: "4th position isn't >> good for me." >> >> Now, maybe he knows his horn well or his ability even better, but I could >> not tell the difference when he tried it my way. He was trained by two >> symphonic players who advocate the "home position" in all situations. > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 12:08:58 -0500 From: "Jen and Andy Walls" To: "Trombone-L List" Subject: Re: Four of a Kind/ dynamics omission Message-ID: <007301c0abe0$4bcca260$30471bd0@0016344132> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm the one who ranted about dynamics. In all my heated excitement I forgot to sign my post so I'll sign this one twice. Andy Walls Andy Walls ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 12:21:26 -0500 From: sabutin@mindspring.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Same Part, Same Position? Message-ID: <200103131722.MAA20121@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hey... Generally it's a good idea to try to match positions in unisons...but that's a VERY broad "generally". For example, it's also good to try to match equipment and sound in a section, but in the professional world (except in some orchestral situations) this is VERY rare. Matching positions in order to be timbrally alike on a unison doesn't do a whole lot of good when one player is playing a King 2B w/a 12C m'pce and the other is playing a Bach 42 w/a 5G. It might be of some help as far as phrasing is concerned...but not really that much. As an extension of this idea, I have noticed that when playing w/trumpets or french horns...unison, octaves, harmony, it makes no difference...if I try to play longer notes either in the closest positions possible when playing w/tpts. or in the most rational extended positions when playing w/french horns, the blend is MUCH better. Not a big thing, but some little part of being a good ensemble trombonist... Later... S. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 12:28:35 -0500 From: "Jen and Andy Walls" To: "Trombone-L List" Subject: Re: Atlanta Symphony Principal Trombone Audition Message-ID: <00b201c0abe3$0970fee0$30471bd0@0016344132> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I agree with Paul's analysis. I still can't figure out, though, where in > the audition process the separation between playing well ensemble-wise and > just playing well occurs. Obviously, one has to play well to win an > audition. Apparently, one does not have to be an effective ensemble player > to win an audition, though...but one DOES have to be an effective ensemble > player to keep an ensemble job. I wonder if there's any way to edit the > audition process such that the player's ensemble skill becomes immediately > perceptible to the committee, since the presently ubiquitous method merely > determines fairly rapidly whether the prospective employee can play well In > General. I've never been in audition like this myself, but I've heard about the last round of some auditions consisting of playing with the section. I imagine this was originated to address the issue you are talking about. Of course no procedure will be perfect, but I bet this helps. Andy Walls ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:27:10 -0700 (MST) From: James Scott To: Douglas Yeo Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Harmful speculation (was: Atlanta) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Bravo Doug- I'll second what Doug said in his post - all of this speculation is potentially harmful to the career of someone who is not even a member of this list. Also, just as we sometimes wonder why one person does well at one audition, and gets nowhere at another, tenure is a process that is highly individual from one situation to another, and really doesn't necessarily reflect accurately on a person's playing ability. There was a situation recently (I won't name where, or what instrument) where a person who was not receiving tenure in one major orchestra turned around and won another even more prestigious position with another top-notch organization. Things can happen that are just unique to the job at hand - we should just hope that the player involved has a good career ahead of him or her. Jim Scott On Tue, 13 Mar 2001, Douglas Yeo wrote: > > I'd like to point out that the kind of speculation that has been > going on in some posts regarding the Atlanta Symphony job is both > unfair and potentially harmful to the person in the position. To > speculate as to why a person did not get tenure, or to pass on gossip > or rumors about such is to quite possibly leave out huge factors > which came to bear in the situation. The person who had the position > will likely look for another one and it is not fair - in my opinion - > to saddle him with a "stigma" of the rumors which have been swirling > around on the list. The fact is that we on the list don't know a > thing about the situation. Nobody on the list knows the "real > story." Only the conductor, the audition committee and the > individual involved knows that. And contractually, the conductor and > audition committee must keep their discussion confidential. Is it too > much to suggest that we leave out the harmful speculation about a > particular individual and instead concentrate on things we know about > or opinions which can be fairly discussed within the context of our > own experience or knowledge. > > Not meaning to be heavy with this, but hurting a person's reputation > - however "innocent" the intention may have been - is serious. > > -Doug Yeo > ********************************************** > * Douglas Yeo * > * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * > * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * > * yeo@yeodoug.com * > * http://www.yeodoug.com * > * <>< * > ********************************************** > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 12:36:25 -0500 From: "Richardson, Tim" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Incredible trumpet player Sergei Nakariakov Message-ID: <21E592FA8BA7D311B5B100062B001FE206F12BE5@LEE2> You might think this is off topic, but when I first heard him play on the radio, doing (I think) a transcription of a Tchaik cello work, I honestly thought it was a really good trombone. This kid (well, 23 now, been recording since 14 though) is absolutely amazing. I had never heard of him before, but that's not surprising, I rarely get to Russia and when I do I mostly listen to trombone and sax players. It turns out he has a web page www.nakariakov.com, a ton of CD's, and some photos that make him look about 11 years old. He had an unusual approach to high range, instead of getting brighter he got fuller. If that was indeed the cello work, then probably he is doing that purposefully. Anyway, when you get bored with trombone concerti CD's, but not desperate enough for Kenny G, try a little Sergei. yours, Tim Richardson > -----Original Message----- > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 11:04:30 -0700 From: Dave Tall To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Atlanta Symphony Principal Trombone Audition Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010313110430.00b58d40@mail.sprintmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:52 AM 03/13/2001 -0600, Guion, David wrote: > >You mean that finalists don't regularly play excerpts with the rest of the >section they'll be joining as part of the audition process? Weird! Not always. For instance, there are orchestras who keep the candidates screened until after the final selection is made. There is no opportunity to play with the section in that case; the audition committee members aren't allowed to see the candidate! And in some other cases, the section just doesn't do it, for whatever reason. I think that trombone sections are more likely to do section playing in auditions than most other groups of instruments. Dave Tall Bass Trombonist New Mexico Symphony ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:50:04 -0800 From: "Gary D. Maxwell" To: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Incredible trumpet player Sergei Nakariakov Message-ID: <3AAE6BDC.26C348C5@bcsd.k12.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gotta jump in here with a resounding, I second that! I have group of CD's of "Wonder Kids", I use at my Middle School, (You know, when they start acting too big for their britches.), that include names like; Charlotte Church, Bob & Nick Childs, Michael Junior, W. A. Mozart, and Sergei, but none of a trombonist who got a start at a really young age. There has GOT to be one, doesn't there? Any help out there? Oh, I do have Alain Trudel(Sp), but he was a little older than 14 when he became really noticed, wasn't he? Thanks for reminding me of the Sergei, Tim, it's time I pull him out and take another listen. All the best, Gary Maxwell Bass Trombone Bakersfield Symphony Orchestra ========================================================================= "Richardson, Tim" wrote: > > You might think this is off topic, but when I first heard him play on the > radio, doing (I think) a transcription of a Tchaik cello work, I honestly > thought it was a really good trombone. This kid (well, 23 now, been > recording since 14 though) is absolutely amazing. I had never heard of him > before, but that's not surprising, I rarely get to Russia and when I do I > mostly listen to trombone and sax players. It turns out he has a web page > www.nakariakov.com, a ton of CD's, and some photos that make him look about > 11 years old. He had an unusual approach to high range, instead of getting > brighter he got fuller. If that was indeed the cello work, then probably he > is doing that purposefully. > Anyway, when you get bored with trombone concerti CD's, but not desperate > enough for Kenny G, try a little Sergei. > > yours, > Tim Richardson > > > -----Original Message----- > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 13:55:41 -0500 From: David Buckley To: jenandandy@pa.net Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Four of a Kind/ dynamics Message-ID: <3AAE6D2D.65D9883B@sympatico.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Very interesting post. Four of a Kind certainly are a wonderful group. They did a program at the ITF in Potsdam in 1999 that may have been the highlight of the week. Just superb. Your comments on volume are interesting. Few understand the difference between a loud sound and a big well produced well supported sound. At the same volume one will be obnoxious, the other thrilling. I spent my life telling my brass band "More air"; or "The same volume but with twice as much air". Its all in the air is so true. Of course more air is hard work but I seldom hear a school or amateur group which would not benefit from the hard work. Regards to all. Dave. Jen and Andy Walls wrote: > > I'm curious, what did Blair Bollinger do when the altos were on? Did he > > change around equipment, or did he simply change color? He's got such a > > wide sound normally (at least on his CD and the one time I heard him in > > a masterclass), I wonder what his strategy was. > > I took one of my students to the concert and she, I'm proud to say, noticed > one way he altered his sound. Mind you she is in 5th grade, so you can > imagine how impressed I was when she said to me, "I like how Mr. Bollinger > tilts his bell up to face us when he's playing big or down to the ground > when he wants to sound quieter." > > There were some other subtle movements by the players that added to the > overall quality. We sat in the second row so we could see it all. For > example, when Mr. Alessi played a "solo" that he wanted to bring out, he > would move ever so slightly forward from his usual position and make sure > his bell was facing between or over the stands. On big fat chords, they > would all turn their bells directly to the audience. They used mutes very > effectively (I hope I used the right word - affect vs. effect). It added a > nice dimension to the sound palette. A lot of composers use mutes just to > make us softer. That's a shame. Because the mute can do so much more. > Speaking of softer, I have a soap box to get on so I'll start a new > paragraph. > > These guys could play loud (and soft). And it sounded good, no it sounded > great. Maybe it's just where I grew up, but most of the school groups and > local groups have a problem with that kind of sound. I always hear the > teachers or directors saying "don't blare," or "tone it down," or "you're > overblowing." Now I don't want to get into a discussion about a Haydn forte > vs. a Mahler forte. That's not what I'm talking about. Well, in a way it > is, our groups play with all one dynamic range regardless of the piece. > When I think about the different classes of instruments in western music I > see that each classification has a "big ticket" that makes it really cool > and sort of unique. For example, the strings all sound similar and can play > so soft and fast that it boggles the mind sometimes. The woodwinds have > different tone colors, that's the thing that in my mind makes them so > appealing to an audience and separates them from the other instruments. The > brasses sound similar in quality and can play loud like no other instrument. > That's our "big ticket" item. I know we can do other things, but I'm > talking about the one thing that separates us from the others. Why don't we > take advantage of that. I know when I hear a good orchestra play or a good > brass band, they do. So why do we constantly teach our kids to "tone it > down?" Is it easier to say that than to explain "when to tone it down" or > "how to play loud with a good tone quality?" I'm not saying that we > shouldn't play soft too, what I'm saying is, why is our brass instrument > dynamic range as a whole limited to the scale of 1-7 when there are 8, 9, > and 10 available yet? Does anyone else have experience with this? I love > playing with the Harrisburg Symphony because I get to experience all the > possibilities dynamically. But that's once a month, then I go back home to > the everyday, local things and if I play a big forte, I'll stick out like a > sore thumb because I'm the only one. I'm positive that the other brass > players could play louder if someone would encourage them and teach them how > to do it, but they are always discouraged from doing that. I can remember > one director, after we finished running through a piece in rehearsal, said > "lets try to play softer and use a good tone quality." I find young players > that can't tell the difference between timbre, dynamics, tempo, etc. And I > believe they get that from a director after director who can not either. > Loud does not have to mean "bad tone quality." We need to separate the two > so less experienced musicians will understand the difference and not > automatically assume that loud is crass and soft is quality. I hope this is > related to the trombone sufficiently to warrant discussion on the > trombone-L. After all, the director is usually talking to the trombones > when she says "don't overblow." ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 19:01:47 -0000 From: "Anthony Lees" To: "trombone L mailing list" Subject: Bach 12 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm afraid I know this subject may have been bought up before, but can anyone tell me about the Bach 12?? Bore size, bell size, that sort of thing, when they were in production. That would be great!! Thank you very much. Anthony Lees ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 14:22:51 -0500 From: David Buckley To: maxwellg@bcsd.k12.ca.us Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Incredible trumpet player Sergei Nakariakov Message-ID: <3AAE738B.6F1A66BE@sympatico.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ian Bousfield was principal of one of the Championship brass bands at about 13 I think Don't know of any CDs from that time but if you play a championship band for your kids, they will hear what is required of a bone player in that milieu. Probably physically as hard playing as there is since they only use 3 bones. Dave. "Gary D. Maxwell" wrote: > Gotta jump in here with a resounding, I second that! > > I have group of CD's of "Wonder Kids", I use at my Middle School, (You > know, when they start acting too big for their britches.), that include > names like; Charlotte Church, Bob & Nick Childs, Michael Junior, W. A. > Mozart, and Sergei, but none of a trombonist who got a start at a really > young age. There has GOT to be one, doesn't there? Any help out > there? Oh, I do have Alain Trudel(Sp), but he was a little older than > 14 when he became really noticed, wasn't he? > > Thanks for reminding me of the Sergei, Tim, it's time I pull him out and > take another listen. > > All the best, > Gary Maxwell > Bass Trombone > Bakersfield Symphony Orchestra > ========================================================================= > "Richardson, Tim" wrote: > > > > You might think this is off topic, but when I first heard him play on the > > radio, doing (I think) a transcription of a Tchaik cello work, I honestly > > thought it was a really good trombone. This kid (well, 23 now, been > > recording since 14 though) is absolutely amazing. I had never heard of him > > before, but that's not surprising, I rarely get to Russia and when I do I > > mostly listen to trombone and sax players. It turns out he has a web page > > www.nakariakov.com, a ton of CD's, and some photos that make him look about > > 11 years old. He had an unusual approach to high range, instead of getting > > brighter he got fuller. If that was indeed the cello work, then probably he > > is doing that purposefully. > > Anyway, when you get bored with trombone concerti CD's, but not desperate > > enough for Kenny G, try a little Sergei. > > > > yours, > > Tim Richardson > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 14:20:48 -0500 From: "Paul D. Kemp Jr." To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Incredible trumpet player Sergei Nakariakov Message-ID: <008201c0abf2$baf927a0$145efc9e@pauljr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'll second what Gary said about this young man--i just went to his website and listened to one of the sound clips, and he is fabulous. I might just have to spring for a CD or 2 , or maybe all of them. Paul Kemp Chattanooga Symphony www.trbnplyr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary D. Maxwell" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 1:50 PM Subject: Re: Incredible trumpet player Sergei Nakariakov > Gotta jump in here with a resounding, I second that! > > I have group of CD's of "Wonder Kids", I use at my Middle School, (You > know, when they start acting too big for their britches.), that include > names like; Charlotte Church, Bob & Nick Childs, Michael Junior, W. A. > Mozart, and Sergei, but none of a trombonist who got a start at a really > young age. There has GOT to be one, doesn't there? Any help out > there? Oh, I do have Alain Trudel(Sp), but he was a little older than > 14 when he became really noticed, wasn't he? > > Thanks for reminding me of the Sergei, Tim, it's time I pull him out and > take another listen. > > All the best, > Gary Maxwell > Bass Trombone > Bakersfield Symphony Orchestra > ========================================================================= > "Richardson, Tim" wrote: > > > > You might think this is off topic, but when I first heard him play on the > > radio, doing (I think) a transcription of a Tchaik cello work, I honestly > > thought it was a really good trombone. This kid (well, 23 now, been > > recording since 14 though) is absolutely amazing. I had never heard of him > > before, but that's not surprising, I rarely get to Russia and when I do I > > mostly listen to trombone and sax players. It turns out he has a web page > > www.nakariakov.com, a ton of CD's, and some photos that make him look about > > 11 years old. He had an unusual approach to high range, instead of getting > > brighter he got fuller. If that was indeed the cello work, then probably he > > is doing that purposefully. > > Anyway, when you get bored with trombone concerti CD's, but not desperate > > enough for Kenny G, try a little Sergei. > > > > yours, > > Tim Richardson > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 14:41:22 EST From: BassBonist@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: LOS ANGELES PHILHARMONIC MUSICIANS AT SYMPHONY CENTER Message-ID: <30.11bec994.27dfd1e2@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_30.11bec994.27dfd1e2_boundary" Content-Disposition: Inline I studied with Jeff longer than any other teacher and I have heard Jeff's presentation on "What Smart Players Do and what Dumb Players Don't," and I enthusiastically recommend being there if you can. Also, he may talk about what makes Smart Conductors, too, but I don't know that is part of this clinic or not... This lecture contains a wealth of insights gleaned from orchestra colleagues over many years (not just brass players, either) that have to do with attitude, teamwork, and seeing the bigger picture, musically speaking. Without giving away some of the specific topics in Jeff's great spiel, I will say that issues of ensemble/section playing are at the core of this class. Also, I am sure he will talk about solo playing, which is another gold mine of useful information. <> See Brian Fredericksen's original post with the same subject heading for more in-depth information on times and places and for Norm Pearson's clinic as well. Matt Varho ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 15:58:30 -0500 From: "Joshua A. Sticklor-Lipson" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Harmful speculation (was: Atlanta) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII To ring in really quickly on the topic: I heard today a rumor that the principal in Atlanta left because he won a position as principal in Toronto. I might be wrong, but that would certainly eliminate speculation about the quality of his playing. Anyone able to substantiate this or prove it wrong? Joshua On Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:08:48 -0500 Douglas Yeo wrote: > I'd like to point out that the kind of speculation that has been > going on in some posts regarding the Atlanta Symphony job is both > unfair and potentially harmful to the person in the position. To > speculate as to why a person did not get tenure, or to pass on gossip > or rumors about such is to quite possibly leave out huge factors > which came to bear in the situation. The person who had the position > will likely look for another one and it is not fair - in my opinion - > to saddle him with a "stigma" of the rumors which have been swirling > around on the list. The fact is that we on the list don't know a > thing about the situation. Nobody on the list knows the "real > story." Only the conductor, the audition committee and the > individual involved knows that. And contractually, the conductor and > audition committee must keep their discussion confidential. Is it too > much to suggest that we leave out the harmful speculation about a > particular individual and instead concentrate on things we know about > or opinions which can be fairly discussed within the context of our > own experience or knowledge. > > Not meaning to be heavy with this, but hurting a person's reputation > - however "innocent" the intention may have been - is serious. > > -Doug Yeo > ********************************************** > * Douglas Yeo * > * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * > * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * > * yeo@yeodoug.com * > * http://www.yeodoug.com * > * <>< * > ********************************************** > ---------- Joshua A. Sticklor-Lipson Bass trombone, James Madison University ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 13:29:42 -0800 From: "Rod Ellard" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Harmful speculation (was: Atlanta) Message-ID: <000701c0ac04$b8ef21a0$527bfea9@Ellard> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It seems to me to be perfectly proper to discuss the merits or demerits of the audition and tenure system even where such discussion is prompted by an individual attaining or losing a particular position. Doug Yeo and others are quite correct, however, in discouraging what could be described as "gossip". Rod ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua A. Sticklor-Lipson" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 12:58 PM Subject: RE: Harmful speculation (was: Atlanta) > To ring in really quickly on the topic: > > I heard today a rumor that the principal in Atlanta left because he won > a position as principal in Toronto. I might be wrong, but that would > certainly eliminate speculation about the quality of his playing. > Anyone able to substantiate this or prove it wrong? > > Joshua > > > On Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:08:48 -0500 Douglas Yeo wrote: > > > I'd like to point out that the kind of speculation that has been > > going on in some posts regarding the Atlanta Symphony job is both > > unfair and potentially harmful to the person in the position. To > > speculate as to why a person did not get tenure, or to pass on gossip > > or rumors about such is to quite possibly leave out huge factors > > which came to bear in the situation. The person who had the position > > will likely look for another one and it is not fair - in my opinion - > > to saddle him with a "stigma" of the rumors which have been swirling > > around on the list. The fact is that we on the list don't know a > > thing about the situation. Nobody on the list knows the "real > > story." Only the conductor, the audition committee and the > > individual involved knows that. And contractually, the conductor and > > audition committee must keep their discussion confidential. Is it too > > much to suggest that we leave out the harmful speculation about a > > particular individual and instead concentrate on things we know about > > or opinions which can be fairly discussed within the context of our > > own experience or knowledge. > > > > Not meaning to be heavy with this, but hurting a person's reputation > > - however "innocent" the intention may have been - is serious. > > > > -Doug Yeo > > ********************************************** > > * Douglas Yeo * > > * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * > > * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * > > * yeo@yeodoug.com * > > * http://www.yeodoug.com * > > * <>< * > > ********************************************** > > > > ---------- > > Joshua A. Sticklor-Lipson > Bass trombone, James Madison University > > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 18:06:34 -0400 From: Craig Parmerlee To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Orchestras versus the NBA Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010313180016.01b816b0@acticalc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 08:49 AM 03/13/2001 -0600, Guion, David wrote: > What other profession is there where a 20 year old can make $100,000+ and > not have finished his education? Basketball, for one, except you'd have to add another zero to the end of your figure. While we're on the subject of basketball, I note that a music school graduate has far better odds making an NBA roster than a major symphony orchestra. There are roughly as many NBA teams as there are major orchestras in the USA. But whereas the orchestras have only 3 trombone players, an NBA team keeps 15 players on the roster. The real killer is that an NBA career is on average just 3 or 4 years, but tenured symphony players can hang around basically forever. So the actual openings for NBA players are far more numerous than for major orchestras. Perhaps there are some music school students who should be working on their jump shots. Cheers, Craig ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 17:52:06 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) From: "Dale J. Cruse" To: Subject: RE: Harmful speculation (was: Atlanta) Message-ID: <3AAECEC6.000003.00612@CC913542-A> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_UUZ5G6G0000000000000" I can't prove it right or wrong, but I think I can provide a lead. According to the Toronto Symphony Orchestra's site, their current bass trombonist is a gentleman named Jeffrey Hall. His bio claims he is a former student of our very own Doug Yeo. Doug, I know you're busy, but can you provide any insight? Thanks in advance, Dale J. Cruse dale@dalecruse.com http://www.dalecruse.com -------Original Message------- From: Joshua A. Sticklor-Lipson Date: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 13:05:35 To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: RE: Harmful speculation (was: Atlanta) To ring in really quickly on the topic: I heard today a rumor that the principal in Atlanta left because he won a position as principal in Toronto. I might be wrong, but that would certainly eliminate speculation about the quality of his playing. Anyone able to substantiate this or prove it wrong? Joshua _________________________________________________ IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 14:59:16 -0800 From: "Jim Jaffe" To: Subject: RE: TROMBONE-L digest 1976 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Baseball, football, hockey, and a while back, dot comers. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu > [mailto:owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu]On Behalf Of > trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 12:05 PM > To: Trombones and related issues forum. > Subject: TROMBONE-L digest 1976 > > > > TROMBONE-L Digest 1976 > > Topics covered in this issue include: > > 1) Re: ask your teacher? (rhetorical question) > by "Jeff Albert" > 2) OTJ Classifieds Updated 3/12/2001, 7:40 AM CDT > by Chris Waage > 3) Re: wisdom teeth removal > by Chris Lee > 4) RE: Tombone stand horror stories > by "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> > 5) RE: Robert Sanders > by "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> > 6) Re: Walt Johnson Cases > by lewismm@songs.sce.com > 7) Re: Walt Johnson Cases > by TonyC789@aol.com > 8) Four of a Kind > by "Thomas Smee" > 9) Re: ask your teacher? (rhetorical question) > by Gabriel Langfur > 10) Re: Four of a Kind > by Gabriel Langfur > 11) Re: Walt Johnson Cases > by Beth Lewis > 12) Re: Four of a Kind > by "Thomas Smee" > 13) Re: ask your teacher? (rhetorical question) > by Tuckertbn@aol.com > 14) Re: Trombone stand horror stories - variation/near miss > by "Rod Ellard" > 15) LOS ANGELES PHILHARMONIC MUSICIANS AT SYMPHONY CENTER > by "Brian Frederiksen" > 16) Atlanta Symphony Principal Trombone Audition > by "Paul D. Kemp Jr." > 17) Re: Trombone stand horror stories - variation/near miss > by "Gary D. Maxwell" > 18) Re: Atlanta Symphony Principal Trombone Audition > by Weston Sprott > 19) Re: Atlanta Symphony Principal Trombone Audition > by "Aaron Roth" > 20) RE: Atlanta Symphony Principal Trombone Audition > by "Andrew Elms" > 21) Re: Atlanta Symphony Principal Trombone Audition > by "Dale Cruse" > 22) RE: Walt Johnson Cases > by "Daniel Sniderman" > 23) ETW > by John Lavoie > 24) Re: ETW > by sabutin > 25) Yet another trombone case thread > by "Daniel Pliskin" > 26) location of Richard Byrd > by "Lisa & Patrick Bates" > 27) Re: ETW > by "Chuck De Paolo" > 28) Re: ETW > by "John McVey" > 29) Houston > by Randy Campora > 30) Re: Houston > by Weston Sprott > 31) Re: ask your teacher? (rhetorical question) > by David Burch > 32) Re: Atlanta Symphony Principal Trombone Audition > by "Aaron Roth" > 33) Re: Atlanta Symphony Principal Trombone Audition > by BassBonist@aol.com > 34) RE: ETW > by jfrye > 35) Trombonist survey > by Candice & Eric Swanson > 36) Re: ETW > by Neobopr@aol.com > 37) Re: Atlanta Symphony , Houston Symphony > by "Rod Ellard" > 38) Re: teacher? > by "Lisa & Patrick Bates" > 39) Same Part, Same Position? > by "Richard Zemry Johnson" > 40) Re: Atlanta Symphony Principal Trombone Audition > by "Paul D. Kemp Jr." > 41) Re: Trombone stand horror stories - variation/near miss > by Earl Needham > 42) Re: Trombone stand horror stories - variation/near miss > by "Richard Zemry Johnson" > 43) Re: Atlanta Symphony Principal Trombone Audition > by "Aaron Roth" > 44) Marine Band Audition Results > by "Ted Toulouse" > 45) Re: Trombone stand horror stories > by =?iso-8859-1?Q?Marius_Helg=E5?= > 46) two bass trombones for sale > by chardy@totcon.com > 47) Re: Same Part, Same Position? > by "Adrian Drover" > 48) Re: Trombone stand horror stories - variation/near miss > by "Adrian Drover" > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 18:08:06 EST From: TboneGib@aol.com To: TROMBONE-L@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE:Atlanta Message-ID: <77.1179cf47.27e00256@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron will be the new principal in Toledo. And he's an AMAZING player....nuff said? Go practice......... Tom Gibson Brass Dept. Coordinator Georgia State University School of Music (w): 404-651-1740 trombonelessons.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 18:18:43 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) From: "Dale J. Cruse" To: Subject: RE: TROMBONE-L digest 1976 Message-ID: <3AAED503.00000A.00612@CC913542-A> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_7316H890000000000000" What do you mean, "a while back?" I'm a full-time web developer and I'm happy to say that I'm doing better than ever financially. Of course the difference is that I've never worked for a "pure" dot-com - I've worked instead for places like CBS News.com, Prudential.com and for an interactive agency (though not in that order). Life is good. And it's about to get better. Dale J. Cruse dale@dalecruse.com http://www.dalecruse.com -------Original Message------- From: Jim Jaffe Date: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 15:01:04 To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: RE: TROMBONE-L digest 1976 Baseball, football, hockey, and a while back, dot comers. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu > [mailto:owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu]On Behalf Of > trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 12:05 PM > To: Trombones and related issues forum. > Subject: TROMBONE-L digest 1976> > > TROMBONE-L Digest 1976 > > Topics covered in this issue include: > > 1) Re: ask your teacher? (rhetorical question) > by "Jeff Albert" > 2) OTJ Classifieds Updated 3/12/2001, 7:40 AM CDT > by Chris Waage > 3) Re: wisdom teeth removal > by Chris Lee > 4) RE: Tombone stand horror stories > by "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> > 5) RE: Robert Sanders > by "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> > 6) Re: Walt Johnson Cases > by lewismm@songs.sce.com > 7) Re: Walt Johnson Cases > by TonyC789@aol.com > 8) Four of a Kind > by "Thomas Smee" > 9) Re: ask your teacher? (rhetorical question) > by Gabriel Langfur > 10) Re: Four of a Kind > by Gabriel Langfur > 11) Re: Walt Johnson Cases > by Beth Lewis > 12) Re: Four of a Kind > by "Thomas Smee" > 13) Re: ask your teacher? (rhetorical question) > by Tuckertbn@aol.com > 14) Re: Trombone stand horror stories - variation/near miss > by "Rod Ellard" > 15) LOS ANGELES PHILHARMONIC MUSICIANS AT SYMPHONY CENTER > by "Brian Frederiksen" > 16) Atlanta Symphony Principal Trombone Audition > by "Paul D. Kemp Jr." > 17) Re: Trombone stand horror stories - variation/near miss > by "Gary D. Maxwell" > 18) Re: Atlanta Symphony Principal Trombone Audition > by Weston Sprott > 19) Re: Atlanta Symphony Principal Trombone Audition > by "Aaron Roth" > 20) RE: Atlanta Symphony Principal Trombone Audition > by "Andrew Elms" > 21) Re: Atlanta Symphony Principal Trombone Audition > by "Dale Cruse" > 22) RE: Walt Johnson Cases > by "Daniel Sniderman" > 23) ETW > by John Lavoie > 24) Re: ETW > by sabutin > 25) Yet another trombone case thread > by "Daniel Pliskin" > 26) location of Richard Byrd > by "Lisa & Patrick Bates" > 27) Re: ETW > by "Chuck De Paolo" > 28) Re: ETW > by "John McVey" > 29) Houston > by Randy Campora > 30) Re: Houston > by Weston Sprott > 31) Re: ask your teacher? (rhetorical question) > by David Burch > 32) Re: Atlanta Symphony Principal Trombone Audition > by "Aaron Roth" > 33) Re: Atlanta Symphony Principal Trombone Audition > by BassBonist@aol.com > 34) RE: ETW > by jfrye > 35) Trombonist survey > by Candice & Eric Swanson > 36) Re: ETW > by Neobopr@aol.com > 37) Re: Atlanta Symphony , Houston Symphony > by "Rod Ellard" > 38) Re: teacher? > by "Lisa & Patrick Bates" > 39) Same Part, Same Position? > by "Richard Zemry Johnson" > 40) Re: Atlanta Symphony Principal Trombone Audition > by "Paul D. Kemp Jr." > 41) Re: Trombone stand horror stories - variation/near miss > by Earl Needham > 42) Re: Trombone stand horror stories - variation/near miss > by "Richard Zemry Johnson" > 43) Re: Atlanta Symphony Principal Trombone Audition > by "Aaron Roth" > 44) Marine Band Audition Results > by "Ted Toulouse" > 45) Re: Trombone stand horror stories< BR>>by=?iso-8859-1?Q?Marius_Helg=E5?= > 46) two bass trombones for sale > by chardy@totcon.com > 47) Re: Same Part, Same Position? > by "Adrian Drover" > 48) Re: Trombone stand horror stories - variation/near miss > by "Adrian Drover" > _________________________________________________ IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 18:16:54 -0500 From: David Burch To: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Incredible trumpet player Sergei Nakariakov Message-ID: <3AAEAA65.A9BFC311@fuse.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I heard Nakariakov on the radio some months ago playing a transcription of some violin piece I'd not heard before. Other than his being an all-around brilliant trumpet player for any age, let alone a 17-year-old, the amazing thing about his performance was that, through an entire piece lasting around 3 minutes, technical and mostly 16th notes, the sound *never* stopped even for a snatch breath. He obviously has mastered cycle breathing along with everything else. "Richardson, Tim" wrote: > You might think this is off topic, but when I first heard him play on the > radio, doing (I think) a transcription of a Tchaik cello work, I honestly > thought it was a really good trombone. This kid (well, 23 now, been > recording since 14 though) is absolutely amazing. I had never heard of him > before, but that's not surprising, I rarely get to Russia and when I do I > mostly listen to trombone and sax players. It turns out he has a web page > www.nakariakov.com, a ton of CD's, and some photos that make him look about > 11 years old. He had an unusual approach to high range, instead of getting > brighter he got fuller. If that was indeed the cello work, then probably he > is doing that purposefully. > Anyway, when you get bored with trombone concerti CD's, but not desperate > enough for Kenny G, try a little Sergei. > > yours, > Tim Richardson > > > -----Original Message----- > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 18:37:18 -0500 From: "Charles Perron" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: alternates positions Message-ID: <007901c0ac16$8b7c21c0$fedab418@glou1.nj.home.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: > In the range above 4th partial Bb, I consider 3rd and 4th positions to be > the "1st" position, 1st and 2nd positions to be the "2nd" position, 5th + 6th > positions to be the "3rd" position, and 7th position to be almost useless. In a lesson with Will Bradley I remember him saying that his favorite key was "E" because it allowed most playing to be done between 2nd and 4th position (inclusive). He was certainly "at home" anywhere on the horn, but he also stressed efficiency of movement. Chuck ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 19:16:15 -0500 From: "Darren Jukes" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Harmful speculation (was: Atlanta) Message-ID: <002601c0ac1b$fca77020$6870d1d8@b1gsur79> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0023_01C0ABF2.13098440" List, Last time I checked Gordon Sweeney is still principal trombone in the Toronto Symphony. The associate position was recently won by a member of the Winnipeg Symphony (thats in Manitoba, Canada for the geographically challenged!) This is a perfect example of how rumours get started - even to guess at someone's position can start uneccessary speculation. I would suggest a re-reading of Doug's earlier post on this subject. Darren -----Original Message----- From: Dale J. Cruse <dale@dalecruse.com> To: Trombones and related issues forum. <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu> Date: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 5:53 PM Subject: RE: Harmful speculation (was: Atlanta) I can't prove it right or wrong, but I think I can provide a lead. According to the Toronto Symphony Orchestra's site, their current bass trombonist is a gentleman named Jeffrey Hall. His bio claims he is a former student of our very own Doug Yeo. Doug, I know you're busy, but can you provide any insight? Thanks in advance, Dale J. Cruse dale@dalecruse.com http://www.dalecruse.com -------Original Message------- From: Joshua A. Sticklor-Lipson Date: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 13:05:35 To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: RE: Harmful speculation (was: Atlanta) To ring in really quickly on the topic: I heard today a rumor that the principal in Atlanta left because he won a position as principal in Toronto. I might be wrong, but that would certainly eliminate speculation about the quality of his playing. Anyone able to substantiate this or prove it wrong? Joshua _________________________________________________ IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 19:24:37 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: CD-R orchestra scores? Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Some time ago, someone posted (or privately sent to me) the name of a website for a publishing company or distributor which sells CD-R discs which contain full scores of various composer's orchestral and instrumental works. I recall being in the Juilliard School of Music store a few months ago and seeing some of these discs and someone has inquired of me as to how to get inexpensive full scores. If someone knows what that company/URL might be, I'd be grateful to have it again. Thanks very much. -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 17:07:08 -0800 From: "Gary D. Maxwell" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Trombone stand horror stories Message-ID: <000d01c0ac23$1846cd60$33525d3f@garymaxwell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I hope that was HIS near-death experience, not yours. (:>)) Gary Maxwell Bass Trombone Bakersfield Symphony Orchestra ==================================================== > I once had a near-death experience at a school band rehearsal. > Norwegian schoolbands has kids from age 10 to 20 playing together in the > same group, so I was sitting next to a guy who was 6 years younger than me. > > I had placed my trombone on the stand, and the guy next to me had placed his > Euphonium on the floor. > In some mysterious way he had managed to slide the rim of the Euph's bell > under one of the feet on my stand. > When he lifted his Euph up, I guess you all can guess what happened. The > 'bone went down! > Miraculously, there were no damage to the 'bone at all. > > Marius HelgŒ > Bass Trombone > Mo Wind Band > Mo Amateur Orchestra > Dunderland Iron Ore Company Big Band > Nordland Symphonic Band > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 18:23:37 -0700 From: "Ian McKenzie" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: CD-R orchestra scores? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is it http://www.cdsheetmusic.com/ you're looking for? They have about 15 cd's of music by a variety of composers. Ian <>< ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 20:57:20 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: CD-R orchestra scores? Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 6:23 PM -0700 3/13/01, Ian McKenzie wrote: Is it http://www.cdsheetmusic.com/ you're looking for? They have about 15 cd's of music by a variety of composers. Yes, that's it. Thanks to all those who emailed me privately as well. -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 21:56:04 -0500 From: "Joshua A. Sticklor-Lipson" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE:Atlanta Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII My mistake, I guess I misheard "Toledo" as "Toronto." I appologize if my question somehow offended anyone. -Joshua On Tue, 13 Mar 2001 18:08:06 EST TboneGib@aol.com wrote: > Aaron will be the new principal in Toledo. And he's an AMAZING > player....nuff said? Go practice......... > > Tom Gibson > Brass Dept. Coordinator Georgia State > University School of Music > (w): 404-651-1740 HREF="http://www.trombonelessons.com">trombonelessons.com ---------- Joshua A. Sticklor-Lipson Bass trombone, James Madison University AIM: JoshuaSL ICQ: 3932212 "DoublePedal" ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 22:26:02 EST From: JFBermann@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Fwd: Incredible trumpet player Sergei Nakariakov Message-ID: <9.124afc28.27e03eca@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_9.124afc28.27e03eca_boundary" Return-path: From: JFBermann@aol.com Full-name: JFBermann Message-ID: <9.12437bff.27e01e14@aol.com> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 20:06:28 EST Subject: Re: Incredible trumpet player Sergei Nakariakov To: daveburch@fuse.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 113 Hi Dave and fellow listers, I'm staying out of all these cans of worms that seem to be opening up, but am happy to share the information about the fabulous violin piece that Sergei plays so amazingly! It's the Bizet Carmen Fantasy that film composer great, and great composer period, Franz Waxman arranged for Jascha Heifetz. When Franz's son John told me about the project when it was in the planning stages, that's when I was first made aware of Sergei and his great virtuosity. No one had been able to match Heifetz and his superb musicianship and technique until Sergei came around. :o) Jim Bermann ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 23:03:12 -0500 From: "Dave Wank" To: "Trombone-L" , Subject: Re: Four of a Kind/ dynamics Message-ID: <00bc01c0ac3b$b16c8120$a598fea9@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a wonderful oportunity for all of you to express just how you go about developing this concept in your students. I know how I do it but I haven't been successful in transmitting it to others. I need the help in my work with an elderly band, and others. Dave Wank ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 23:06:02 -0500 From: "Dave Wank" To: "Trombone-L" , Subject: Re: LOS ANGELES PHILHARMONIC MUSICIANS AT SYMPHONY CENTER Message-ID: <00c301c0ac3c$167d4ea0$a598fea9@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00C0_01C0AC12.2C7185C0" It's wonderful that Jeff Reynolds is presenting this program. However, as unfortunate as it may be, the bulk of us do not live within a reasonable distance form LA. It sure would be helpful if Jeff, or anyone else, would put those words down on paper and spread it to the T-L. I'm sure there is much of value there for everyone! Dave Wank ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 20:10:36 -0800 From: "Daniel Cloutier" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Atlanta Symphony Principal Trombone Audition Message-ID: <200103140410.UAA27160@mail19.bigmailbox.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary Mime-Version: 1.0 >It's interesting how, after he won the audition as the player best >suited for the job, they quickly began looking for a new prospect. According to my ASO mole (yes, I have many moles in this business), Aaron was more a choice of the Music Director than the committee. >Just another thing to make one wonder about the audition process... At least he has the Toledo job--which he recently won--to start whenever he is done in Atlanta. ------------------------------------------------------------ --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 22:54:50 -0600 From: William Dinwiddie To: Trombone-L Subject: To Swing or not to Swing Message-ID: <3AAEF99A.779B64A2@mediaone.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Listers, I'd like to make a point which I believe has been overlooked in the discussion about alternate positions. I think that the main thing to get right for someone who is playing jazz or jazz-influenced music is that it should SWING. I think that one reason that some very good trombone players have difficulty swinging is that they are trying to play too good. Trying to make every note a jewel, or worrying about what is the best possible choice of position for any given note may be neglecting the prime directive. Using alternate positions, especially on non-trigger tenor trombones, is not just a convenience; in many cases it is imperative that the alternate be used, or the true swing feel will be lost or at least damaged. Trying to play swing figures with trumpets or saxes, especially in a unison, can be a problem for trombone players. We soon discover that those guys have a great advantage, in that they can change notes almost instantaneously. It takes a trombone a few milliseconds longer to get from one note to another, and those milliseconds really count when you are trying to make something swing. If you use alternate positions effectively it may do wonders for your swing feel. Also, I have always felt that "cheating" is permissable to achieve a better swing feel. Playing a passing tone in the "wrong" position can often be the right choice in that the overall feel of the jazz ensemble is improved. I've played a lot of second line B naturals in fourth or fifth position on my straight tenor horn to be sure I didn't slow down the time. Of course, that's just my opinion. I'd be interested to hear some others. Bill Dinwiddie ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 23:11:27 -0600 From: "Jeff Albert" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: To Swing or not to Swing Message-ID: <005301c0ac45$397a2140$a6db1542@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Excellent point. I had once had a teacher point out a series of alternate positions on a J.J. transcription, and it made a world of difference. I only saw J.J. perform in person once, and it was years ago, but I believe he used alternates regularly, or at least it sounds like he did. Jeff Albert www.jeffalbert.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Dinwiddie" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 10:54 PM Subject: To Swing or not to Swing > Hi Listers, > I'd like to make a point which I believe has been overlooked in the > discussion about alternate positions. I think that the main thing to get > right for someone who is playing jazz or jazz-influenced music is that > it should SWING. I think that one reason that some very good trombone > players have difficulty swinging is that they are trying to play too > good. Trying to make every note a jewel, or worrying about what is the > best possible choice of position for any given note may be neglecting > the prime directive. Using alternate positions, especially on > non-trigger tenor trombones, is not just a convenience; in many cases it > is imperative that the alternate be used, or the true swing feel will be > lost or at least damaged. Trying to play swing figures with trumpets or > saxes, especially in a unison, can be a problem for trombone players. We > soon discover that those guys have a great advantage, in that they can > change notes almost instantaneously. It takes a trombone a few > milliseconds longer to get from one note to another, and those > milliseconds really count when you are trying to make something swing. > If you use alternate positions effectively it may do wonders for your > swing feel. Also, I have always felt that "cheating" is permissable to > achieve a better swing feel. Playing a passing tone in the "wrong" > position can often be the right choice in that the overall feel of the > jazz ensemble is improved. I've played a lot of second line B naturals > in fourth or fifth position on my straight tenor horn to be sure I > didn't slow down the time. Of course, that's just my opinion. I'd be > interested to hear some others. > Bill Dinwiddie > > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 00:45:48 EST From: BassBonist@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: LOS ANGELES PHILHARMONIC MUSICIANS AT SYMPHONY CENTER Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_d9.1185be9a.27e05f8c_boundary" Content-Disposition: Inline Dave writes: <> Ê This clinic is taking place in Chicago. Matt Varho ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 23:52:49 -0600 From: "Gary Greenhoe" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: LOS ANGELES PHILHARMONIC MUSICIANS AT SYMPHONY CENTER Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0AC18.B6090190" And I have tickets...plus a night off!!! It looks like a Remington reunion, too. Regards, Gary -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu]On Behalf Of BassBonist@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 11:46 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Re: LOS ANGELES PHILHARMONIC MUSICIANS AT SYMPHONY CENTER Dave writes: <> Ê This clinic is taking place in Chicago. Matt Varho ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 01:00:22 -0500 From: "Dave Wank" To: "Trombone-L" Subject: finale Message-ID: <001401c0ac4c$0ef4f380$a598fea9@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01C0AC22.255EA8C0" I could use sopme assistance. Recently someone mentioned that Finale was giving away one of their simpler versions. Do any of you have that info and web address for the download? Thanks for your help. Dave Wank ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1977 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 01:31:22 -0500 From: sabutin@mindspring.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Atlanta Symphony , Houston Symphony Message-ID: <200103140633.BAA25558@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 06:19 PM 3/12/01 -0800, you wrote: > > To a disinterested observer, the whole audition process seems rather > amusing.Ê All this effort to level the playing field so that a 100 or so guys > with virtually identical experience and background apply, of whomÊonly a few > willÊbe asked to attend, and who will play the same half dozen or so excerpts > which they've been working on for a few years, and then no one can decide who > to hire soÊthey hang on to the guy who has been playing the part as "acting" > this or that, only to repeat the process again later because you can't give > the job to the guy who has been doing it etc. etc. Or they hire someone, and > then find out that he "can't play in an ensemble".Ê What does that mean I > wonder?Ê If everyone is playing the right notes, at the right dynamic, in the > right rhythm, and in tune (all of which is easier than it first appears, I'll > admit, but, for example, you've only been working on your big moment in The > Ride since you were 17!) doesn't playing together more or less fall into > place.Ê Or did they find out that he can't read tenor clef or did he spray > his slide when the conductor made his big entrance? > Ê > And all this in order to hire a guy who doesn't have to doÊmuch except count > bars rest and come in on time when he has a few notes to play! > Ê > Rod ================= I'd be the last one to defend the audition process, which I consider inherently unmusical (antimusical, really), but... You're way off base here. Every symphony orchestra has its own culture, its own style, and only those that live w/in it can REALLY tell the difference. It's like cars...to a non-car person, all Japanese cars (or American or German) of a certain size look pretty much alike...but to someone deep into automobiles, every marking and variation holds a great deal of meaning. Some handle particularly well; some are turbocharged or have fancy induction and/or exhaust systems; some are incredibly tough; some have great braking characteristics... Now to 99% of the people who buy and drive these cars it makes very little difference WHAT'S going on under the hood...it starts, it stops, it gets you there...but the overall excellence of today's automobiles is due to the 1% who really give a damn. Same w/orchestral musicians. Boston Symphony, NY Philharmonic, London Symphony, Berlin, Vienna, St. Louis, Minnesota...all radically different if you get deep enough inside them, all filled w/the usual assortment of fakers, artists, people who are just getting by, obsessives, neurotics , near psychotics and geniuses. To THEM (well, SOME of them anyway), the fine differences in peoples' playing are enormously important, and that's how music progresses. There is a saying, "God lives in the details". That's what all this fuss is about. Means next to nothing to Aunt Gertrude and her lady friends when they go to a concert...but that's where the real stuff lies, in the details. The audition system is marvelously inefficient and limiting...but the older way of having a music director or old boy network pick the musicians had its own drawbacks, mostly due to the cultural prejudices of the old boys who ran it. The people who play in these orchestras