TROMBONE-L Digest 1922 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Hartford Audition by "posaune rex" 2) RE: slide repair by "Andrew Elms" 3) Re: Do-It-Yourself Repairs by Chris Waage 4) Re: Jazz - Ken Burns by "Michael Towe" 5) Re: Do-It-Yourself Repairs by BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com 6) Re: Slide Repair by Candice & Eric Swanson 7) Re: Do-It-Yourself Repairs by Candice & Eric Swanson 8) Re: Hartford Audition by Gabriel Langfur 9) Re: Do-It-Yourself Repairs by "Chris Waage" 10) Re: Double Radius Tuning Slides by David Burch 11) Re: Louis Armstrong...trombonist? - clarification by "Jen and Andy Walls" 12) Re: Semiconductors by Galen Zinn 13) Re: How to treat a new slide by Gabriel Langfur 14) Resistance, was Double Radius Tuning Slides by Gabriel Langfur 15) Re: Louis Armstrong...trombonist? - clarification by BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com 16) Re: Do-It-Yourself Repairs by BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com 17) Do-it-yourself slide repairs by "Tricky Sam" 18) Re: by "Joe L. Norcross" 19) Protec case by Beth Lewis 20) Fw: Slide Repair by "Ken Barnes" 21) Fw: Mahler Recordings - Desert Island by "Darren Jukes" 22) Re: Do-it-yourself slide repairs by Candice & Eric Swanson 23) Re: Fw: Slide Repair by Candice & Eric Swanson 24) Re: Fw: Mahler Recordings - Desert Island by Douglas Yeo 25) Mahler Recordings by "Darren Jukes" 26) Re: Fw: Slide Repair by "Ken Barnes" 27) Re: slide repair by "Paul D. Kemp Jr." 28) Wanted: Bass Trombone CD (Chevaillier) by Douglas Yeo 29) Re: Hartford Audition by "Dean McCarty" 30) Newer isn't always better by "Paul D. Kemp Jr." 31) RE: Fw: Slide Repair by "Brandon C. Moodie" 32) Re: Jazz by jimandcat@juno.com 33) Re: Do-it-yourself slide repairs by "Roger Carmichael" 34) Re: Do-it-yourself slide repairs by Beth Lewis 35) Re: Jazz by "Adrian Drover" ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1922 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 15:32:48 From: "posaune rex" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Hartford Audition Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Anyone have any word on the winner or finalists of the recent Hartford Symphony audition? thanks! stacy werblin http://remember.to/practice _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1922 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:34:04 -0500 From: "Andrew Elms" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: slide repair Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00F6_01C07D4C.59B69BA0" WARNING!!! I think that this would be a horrible idea. Better to borrow or rent another horn than to attempt this type of repair. Slides are tricky, I don't think that this will even help you a little bit. I would think that this is more likely to completely destroy the slide. Additionally, you can damage your leadpipe by pushing larger stock through the thin tapered column. Besides, the method you have to remove the dents in the outer slide will scratch and probably remove the chrome or nickel plating on the inner slides. Summary, BAD IDEA. LEAVE SLIDE REPAIR TO TRAINED PROFFESIONALS. Andy > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu > [mailto:owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu] > Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 11:22 PM > To: Trombones and related issues forum. > Subject: > > I recently damaged the slides on both of my trombones, and I canÕt find > anyone in my area who can do the repairs cheaply and quickly and > competently (itÕs the old engineerÕs saw, you can only pick two). I was > wondering about the possibility of fixing the slides myself until I can > have someone attend to it. > If I were to take a properly sized piece of metal (aluminum, brass?) > stock, rounded on one end and tapped on the other for easy removal, would > I be able to insert it into the inner slides without damage? If so, can I > find the specifications for my horn somewhere, or do I have to find some > ID calipers? > > The method I would employ: > 1: Determine inner diameter of inner slides > 2: Purchase stock about .002 in smaller. > 3: Round and tap stock. > 4: Insert lubricated stock into inner slides. > 5: With stock in, replace outer slide. > 6: Work outer slide back and forth. > 7: Remove stock. > 8: Clean trombone. > > Will this get me by for a month or so? Is there anything I need to be > aware of, like special coatings that could be damaged by this process? > Tips on how to do it if this method wonÕt work? > > Cstrickland ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1922 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 09:48:04 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: Re: Do-It-Yourself Repairs Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I remember seeing a sign in a repair shop years ago: Repair Prices: 1. $10/hour 2. $20/hour if you watch 3. $40/hour if you ask questions 4. $100/hour if you tried to do it yourself first. If you've invested a large sum in an instrument, doesn't it make good sense to have the repairs done by someone who has invested a large amount of time, money and energy into learning how to repair it? Sending your instrument to a repairman makes better financial sense than a do-it-yourself repair. Another old engineer's saying is this: How valuable is your time? If you're time is worth more than $20 an hour, get a repairman to do the work. Time spent figuring out how to fix it: 3 to 4 hours Time spent gathering parts and tools: 4 to 5 hours Time spent doing the repairs: 2 to 3 hours Total estimated time investment: 9 to 12 hours (or $180 to $240, if your time's worth $20/hour). This doesn't include the cost of the parts and tools. Chris I recently damaged the slides on both of my trombones, and I can't find anyone in my area who can do the repairs cheaply and quickly and competently (it's the old engineer's saw, you can only pick two). I was wondering about the possibility of fixing the slides myself until I can have someone attend to it. If I were to take a properly sized piece of metal (aluminum, brass?) stock, rounded on one end and tapped on the other for easy removal, would I be able to insert it into the inner slides without damage? If so, can I find the specifications for my horn somewhere, or do I have to find some ID calipers? The method I would employ: 1: Determine inner diameter of inner slides 2: Purchase stock about .002 in smaller. 3: Round and tap stock. 4: Insert lubricated stock into inner slides. 5: With stock in, replace outer slide. 6: Work outer slide back and forth. 7: Remove stock. 8: Clean trombone. Will this get me by for a month or so? Is there anything I need to be aware of, like special coatings that could be damaged by this process? Tips on how to do it if this method won't work? Cstrickland -- _________________________________________ Chris Waage chris@trombone.org Associate Webmaster The Online Trombone Journal http://www.trombone.org ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1922 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 07:46:51 -0800 From: "Michael Towe" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Jazz - Ken Burns Message-ID: <00b301c07d78$0c9f7c20$03000004@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B0_01C07D34.FDC39A80" Hiya Folks, ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊSince I am a musician as a second job and a video tape editor as the job that pays the bills I may be able to shed a bit of light here. The Jazz series is nothing more then a history of jazz. It has to remain on that level to have appeal to a wide range of viewers. I was rehearsing last week andÊthe guitarÊplayer made the comment that the show was frustrating since they would talk about a certain musician and how his sound was so unique but would talk over the music so you couldn't hear it. A very good point but one must keep in mind that again this was made for a wide range of viewers thatÊare notÊallÊmusicians. If you don't keep the information coming they will flipÊthe dial and watch some mindless sitcom. It is a shame that we have to program for the mindless masses butÊunfortunately that is the way of the world of entertainment. With that said I still have to admit that so far it is a great series. I have purchased the DVD set and amÊ6 tapes into it and it just keeps getting better.ÊI have been introduced to musicians that I never knew existed and I am sure my bank account will suffer in the months to come.Ê I think the most important thing that this series isÊpointing out is the effect that jazz had on race relations in this country. I love the fact that something as beautiful as jazz became a common ground between the races. It allowed people to share ideas and expression across racial boundaries. Whites who would never go across town to the black clubs because of all the racial stereo types now had to if they wanted to fill that hole in their soul that was only filled by jazz.Unfortunately it took to many years for white America to reciprocate this. As a middle class white guy from suburban California I do not even want to insinuate that I have any inkling of understanding of being black in America, but I can say thank you to a race that brought something as wonderful as jazz to this world. My 2 cents worth, ÊÊ Mike -----Original Message----- From: Darren Jukes <rd.jukes@sympatico.ca> To: Trombones and related issues forum. <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu> Date: Friday, January 12, 2001 11:01 AM Subject: Jazz - Ken Burns List, I recently heard an interview on the CBC (Canadian Broad. Corp) with Ken Burns. Very interesting and i wish all of you could have heard it (Check out www.cbc.ca) He seemed to have approached this series with a simple, child like curiosity. He was not an expert on jazz when he began this documentary. Ken also clearly stated that it was not his intention to present an encyclopedia of the genre. It's obvious that this would be an impossible project - so lets not even discuss it. So instead he tried to present some milestones of artistry (the first, last etc..) and place. I think Ken's motivation for the series was to reintroduce jazz or introduce it to someone who may be totally unfamiliar with jazz. It seemed to me that he would consider it a triumph if only one person walked away from the series and straight into the record store. The last thing he said in the interview was how happy he was that the interviewer played the clips Ken brought in their entirety. He said it made is day. My 2 cents Darren Jukes ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1922 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 11:11:40 EST From: BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com To: chris@trombone.org, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Do-It-Yourself Repairs Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How about sending them back to the Factory if the company still exists and you cannot find local repair people competent to fix them. beldon wade ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1922 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:32:45 -0500 From: Candice & Eric Swanson Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Slide Repair Message-ID: <3A60751C.13C39920@worldnet.att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tricky Sam wrote: > I recently damaged the slides on both of my trombones.........I was wondering > about > the possibility of fixing the slides myself until I can have someone attend > to it. > If I were to take a properly sized piece of metal (aluminum, brass?) stock, > rounded on one end and tapped on the other for easy removal, would I be able > to insert it into the inner slides without damage? > > The method I would employ: > 1: Determine inner diameter of inner slides > 2: Purchase stock about .002 in smaller. > 3: Round and tap stock. > 4: Insert lubricated stock into inner slides. > 5: With stock in, replace outer slide. > 6: Work outer slide back and forth. > 7: Remove stock. > 8: Clean trombone. > > Will this get me by for a month or so? ................... Sam, What you're suggesting won't fix the slide, and you might do even more damage. If you like the horns, don't try to fix them yourself. Find a competent repair person. Eric Swanson ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1922 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:46:57 -0500 From: Candice & Eric Swanson Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Do-It-Yourself Repairs Message-ID: <3A607871.376FB6B5@worldnet.att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com wrote: > How about sending them back to the Factory if the company still exists and > you cannot find local repair people competent to fix them. > I don't think any of the factories accept repairs anymore. They leave repairs to their individual dealers, even warranty work. But, there are plenty of fairly competent repair shops in the US, which is where I believe this guy is. Perhaps "Tricky Sam" could tell us his location, and the list members could suggest a good repair person nearby. If nothing else, he could ship the horn somewhere for repairs. Eric Swanson ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1922 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 08:56:59 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Hartford Audition Message-ID: <20010113165659.7695.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii David Garcia won the audition, and some of the finalists were Leon Ni and I think Brian Diehl and David Begnoche. Not positive about finalists - I think they had four rounds in all, and I'm not sure which were in the last round. I know those four were among the last six or so. Gabe --- posaune rex wrote: > Anyone have any word on the winner or finalists of > the recent Hartford > Symphony audition? thanks! > > > stacy werblin > http://remember.to/practice > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > http://explorer.msn.com > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1922 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 12:01:46 -0500 From: "Chris Waage" To: Subject: Re: Do-It-Yourself Repairs Message-ID: <200101131201.AA1040318776@trombone.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The only manufacturers I have heard of who will do after-the-sale repairs are Edwards and Shires. Chris ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 11:11:40 EST >How about sending them back to the Factory if the company still exists and >you cannot find local repair people competent to fix them. > > >beldon wade > -- _________________________________________ Chris Waage chris@trombone.org Associate Webmaster The Online Trombone Journal http://www.trombone.org -- ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1922 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 12:02:54 -0500 From: David Burch To: tbneplyer@mindspring.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Double Radius Tuning Slides Message-ID: <3A608A3C.F51F163E@fuse.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I use a rose brass, double-radius tuning slide in my Edwards tenor. Comparing it to to the standard yellow brass, single-radius slide, I agree that it helps me in the upper register. However, I would not say that it compacts my sound, but that it does the opposite, broadening and opening the nasal sound the standard slide give me. Dave Burch Hamilton, Ohio Chad Horsley wrote: > I just wanted to get everyones opinion on Double Radius Tuning Slides. > They usually help you in the upper register and compact your sound a > little. Thanks---------------------------------------------------- > Chad Horsley > tbneplyer@mindspring.com > AIM....tbneplyer ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1922 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 12:04:12 -0500 From: "Jen and Andy Walls" To: "Trombone-L List" Subject: Re: Louis Armstrong...trombonist? - clarification Message-ID: <00f301c07d83$56726820$5343e4ce@0016344132> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Clason" To: ; "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 4:24 PM Subject: Re: Louis Armstrong...trombonist? > I've seen the pictures you're referring to in Jones and > Chilton. My best guess is that it's a soprano trombone that > Louis picked up somewhere. They were made then (as now) as > novelty instruments. > > Dennis I must take exception to the understanding that soprano trombones were made as novelty instruments. I play with the Moravian Trombone Choir. In the 1700's when settlers were coming to America and forming churches, it was not feasible to build an organ here except in a huge city like Philadelphia. Even there it was a great task. In the meantime the Moravians would borrow from the European Moravian tradition and have 4 trombones (SATB) accompany the singing. It was very easy to ship a set of trombones over for the local musicians to play in the church. So ever since then (I don't think the Eastman Trombone Choir is older than that - HA HA) the Moravian Trombone Choir has served in this capacity (somewhat diminished though within the actual worship service). Usually now we play as a prelude to the service. Today, we have a brass choir (valve instruments are used too). But there are still some churches that have the traditional slide trombone choir. I know of a few. Lititz PA where I am, Downey CA (Jeff Reynolds of the LA Phil made a pretty popular CD you may have heard when he was the trombone choir director there), Bethlehem PA and possibly Winston-Salem NC (I'm not sure about this one). On a side note, all of these towns were started as Moravian communities and while I'm not sure about the others, I know that Lititz was solely a Moravian town until the mid-1800's. That's not to say others weren't welcome, but to live within the town limits, you had to subscribe to the Moravian (a Protestant denomination) way of life. So while the soprano trombone may have been a cool toy for Louis Armstrong or others, it certainly didn't come into existence as a novelty instrument. I wish I had more info to share on the use of the trombones by the Moravians, but I'm just beginning to learn more about "my roots" so to speak. I grew up playing trombone with the trombone choir and didn't really think much about it. Now that I'm a little older I'm interested in learning more. Andy Walls ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1922 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 09:11:02 -0800 From: Galen Zinn To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Semiconductors Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 1/11/01 9:22 AM, Adrian Drover at slide.rule@adios.co.uk wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Earl Needham" > To: "Trombones and related issues forum." > Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 4:42 PM > Subject: Semiconductors > > >> I must point out that a >> semiconductor isn't a conductor PART-TIME, it a conductor that DOESN'T >> CONDUCT VERY WELL... > > Or a brilliantly talented conductor who is only 2 feet 11 inches tall. > > A. > > Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) > Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk > Business: studio@adios.co.uk > www.adios.co.uk > > > Or a brilliantly talented 1 foot 5 1/2 inch tall musician who leads a musical ensemble while standing (with no baton) on top of a piano enlarged and projected to screen by the Hubble Telescope. Galen Zinn E-mail: zinger@musician.org ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1922 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 09:11:05 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: How to treat a new slide Message-ID: <20010113171105.6878.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Kevan Lomas wrote: Any advice members of the list can > give with regard to > cleaning the slide and initial treatment will be > most gratefully received. Clean it A LOT. There's always some residue left over from the manufacturing process, and it takes some time and repeated cleanings to get it out. The instructions for cleaning in the old Kleinhammer book are very clear and, I think, very comprehensive. Essentially, buy a roll or two of cheesecloth, and use that, wrapped around the slide cleaning rod that should have come with the horn, to swab the insides of the outer slide tubes. Then, reassemble the slide and use a snake and warm, soapy water (mild dish soap works well) to clean the insides of the inner slide tubes and the crook (which probably just had some gunk shoved into it by the cleaning rod), and rinse thoroughly. Don't use the cleaning rod to clean the inner tubes, and don't use the snake to clean the outer tubes. If the horn didn't come with a cleaning rod, you can buy the Slide-O-Mix cleaning set (in the US it costs about $30) that comes with a rod, a terrycloth cover to replace the cheesecloth, and a brush that screws onto the end of the rod to do the job of the snake. I think it works great. It's also possible that the tube didn't come from the factory perfectly straight. Sometimes metal has a mind of its own and will revert back to the shape it held before it was manipulated. If that's the case, and it's under warranty from the shop it was purchased, it should be brought back (maybe more than once) to be straightened out. If that ultimately doesn't work, they should replace the tube or, preferably, the whole slide. Gabe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1922 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 09:31:21 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Resistance, was Double Radius Tuning Slides Message-ID: <20010113173121.86415.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- David Burch wrote: > However, I would not say > that it compacts my sound, but that it does the > opposite, broadening and > opening the nasal sound the standard slide give me. > Chad Horsley wrote: > > > I just wanted to get everyones opinion on Double > Radius Tuning Slides. > > They usually help you in the upper register and > compact your sound a > > little. I think a general rule of thumb is that everyone needs some resistance from the instrument in order to make a good sound. The effects of introducing that resistance in different places will be different for different players. Monette trumpets work on the principle of making the instrument very heavy throughout, and particularly at the bell, but with a very open mouthpiece throat and leadpipe. Efficiency (or resistance) is introduced by the overall mass of the instrument, and balances the open-ness of the early tubing. Some trombone players like to use a big mouthpiece and/or open leadpipe, and often tend towards heavier bells - introducing the friendly resistance later. Others like lighter weight bells, maybe more open tuning slides or goosenecks, but a smaller mouthpiece and tighter leadpipe. Gary Greenhoe described recently how players using his valves are finding they can play lighter equipment than they did with Thayer valves, probably because the Greenhoe valve offers just enough more friendly resistance than a Thayer. Picking out my Shires bass trombone, I found that I got the best instrument for me by finding the right balance of elements - comparing the way a particular leadpipe worked with a particular bell with a particular valve section, etc. I guess this is my long-winded (as usual) way of saying that a double radius tuning slide will probably have a different effect on Chad's sound than it did for Dave. For Dave, it is the right resistance in the right place to open and broaden his sound. For someone else, it might very well tighten up and compact the sound, and they probably need the resistance somewhere else. I've found that I start to get diminishing returns, as far as breadth of sound, if my equipment gets too big. There seems to be an optimum for my body, and it's NOT a 60-sized mouthpiece and a wide open leadpipe and a dual-bore slide and the most open tuning slide Shires makes. I try to impress that idea - to find the optimum size equipment and the right kind of resistance - on people when they ask me for help picking out a horn. Gabe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1922 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 12:39:34 EST From: BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com To: jenandandy@pa.net, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Louis Armstrong...trombonist? - clarification Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Last year I tried to get a discussion started in a string in which I alluded to the Moravians being the people who started American Jazz.. Tail gate trombone being played out the tail gate of the wagon as the families went from house to house on holiday's playing music. Hope Indiana was a Moravian community and I had discussions with one of the decendents and a member of the Moravian Church. Couldn't shake a walnut from the tree at that time. beldon wade ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1922 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 12:56:39 EST From: BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com To: BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com, chris@trombone.org, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Do-It-Yourself Repairs Message-ID: <39.f3e5319.2791f0d7@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/13/01 12:34:59 PM US Eastern Standard Time, BJMCHAFFIE writes: The Musical Instrument company Conn did accept repairs for a while. beldon wade << Subj: Re: Do-It-Yourself Repairs Date: 1/13/01 12:34:59 PM US Eastern Standard Time From: BJMCHAFFIE To: chris@trombone.org, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Conn did for a while. beldon wade >> ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1922 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 13:20:35 -0500 From: "Tricky Sam" To: "Trombone-L" Subject: Do-it-yourself slide repairs Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C07D63.9CE8A320" Point taken. I will not try to attempt repairs myself. The problem is not so much a lack of competent repairmen, or exceedingly high prices, but that everyone within a hundred miles seems to be so busy that I wonÕt see my horn again for two months, unless I want to pay for a rush job (or go to a repairman whose prices are extra high in the first place). I did read some good things about the Slide Dr on the internet last night. On a slightly different note, maybe IÕm just not sure what repair times and prices should be. What should I expect to pay and how long should I expect to wait for a slide repair? IÕm sure, after reading the slide dr website, that I donÕt know everything that goes into one. On a slightly differenter note, how does one go about learning trombone repair? If anyone can suggest someone in the Milledgeville, GA area, IÕll be happy to call them. ItÕs more than possible (extremely likely) that I donÕt know most of the repairmen in this area. This is the first repair that IÕve ever had to have done (in ten years of owning a decent trombone). Chris Strickland ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1922 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:24:52 -0800 From: "Joe L. Norcross" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Message-ID: <004901c07d8e$2a394c00$5f37a5d1@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Why risk ruining your slide, pay the money and get a first class repairman do the job Joe L. Norcross Tuba: Visalia CA Sequoia Winds, Visalia Brass Band Tuba and Announcer: Kingsburg City Band joetuba@lightspeed.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tricky Sam" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 8:22 PM > I recently damaged the slides on both of my trombones, and I canÕt find > anyone in my area who can do the repairs cheaply and quickly and competently > (itÕs the old engineerÕs saw, you can only pick two). I was wondering about > the possibility of fixing the slides myself until I can have someone attend > to it. > If I were to take a properly sized piece of metal (aluminum, brass?) stock, > rounded on one end and tapped on the other for easy removal, would I be able > to insert it into the inner slides without damage? If so, can I find the > specifications for my horn somewhere, or do I have to find some ID calipers? > > > The method I would employ: > 1: Determine inner diameter of inner slides > 2: Purchase stock about .002 in smaller. > 3: Round and tap stock. > 4: Insert lubricated stock into inner slides. > 5: With stock in, replace outer slide. > 6: Work outer slide back and forth. > 7: Remove stock. > 8: Clean trombone. > > Will this get me by for a month or so? Is there anything I need to be aware > of, like special coatings that could be damaged by this process? Tips on > how to do it if this method wonÕt work? > > Cstrickland > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1922 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 13:28:45 -0500 (EST) From: Beth Lewis To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Protec case Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi everyone, I've been using a protec case with my new horn, but during a recent flight (I had to gate-check it since it was a turbo prop with almost no overhead compartment space) it put a small dent in my neckpipe. There seems to be a staple or other hard object sticking out a little under the case's lining where the dent occurred. So has anyone had this happen before, and how could I repair the case, or should I just return it (which I've done once already since the first case didn't even fit the instrument)? Thanks, Beth Lewis ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1922 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 12:27:37 -0600 From: "Ken Barnes" To: Subject: Fw: Slide Repair Message-ID: <005801c07d8e$a7432f40$d12922d1@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sam, All the comments urging reliance on professional repair service are well-taken, especially where there is really serious damage and the hope is to bring the slide back into a near-nirvana state. Over the long term, though, the answer to the problem you describe may lie somwhere between, on the one hand, being helpless in an emergency and destroying your slide with home-grown solutions, on the other. Ferree's Tools makes a delightful device, called a "Expandable Trombone Dent Removal Tool" that can really save the day when neither shipping your instrument off for a week nor borrowing one for tonight's gig is an option. These things come in three sizes: N10 - for tenor inner slides (7/16" before expanding) N11 - for outer slides ( 1/2" before expanding); and N11A - for bass tbn outer slides (9/16" before exp.) The price for these is somewhere around $60 apiece, but used judiciously (and with a little fear mixed in at first) they can end up paying for themselves after one whack on a mike stand. Mine have. (8^>) kb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Candice & Eric Swanson" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 9:32 AM Subject: Re: Slide Repair > Tricky Sam wrote: > > I recently damaged the slides on both of my trombones.........I was wondering > > about the possibility of fixing the slides myself until I can have someone attend > > to it. > > If I were to take a properly sized piece of metal (aluminum, brass?) stock, > > rounded on one end and tapped on the other for easy removal, would I be able > > to insert it into the inner slides without damage? > > > > The method I would employ: > > 1: Determine inner diameter of inner slides > > 2: Purchase stock about .002 in smaller. > > 3: Round and tap stock. > > 4: Insert lubricated stock into inner slides. > > 5: With stock in, replace outer slide. > > 6: Work outer slide back and forth. > > 7: Remove stock. > > 8: Clean trombone. > > > > Will this get me by for a month or so? ................... > > Sam, > > What you're suggesting won't fix the slide, and you might do even more damage. > If you like the horns, don't try to fix them yourself. Find a competent repair > person. > > Eric Swanson > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1922 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 13:57:37 -0500 From: "Darren Jukes" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Fw: Mahler Recordings - Desert Island Message-ID: <001601c07d92$b304b020$1f70d1d8@b1gsur79> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01C07D68.C93C0AC0" -----Original Message----- From: Darren Jukes <rd.jukes@sympatico.ca> To: Trombones and related issues forum. <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu> Date: Friday, January 12, 2001 2:50 PM Subject: Mahler Recordings - Desert Island List, We've been discussing some Mahler 3 recordings and some others have chimed in with other recommendations for listening. I've always wanted to have some sort of Mahler party where a group of friends sit down and start with Symphony No 1 and finish sometime the next day with the 10th (yeah I know - it's my idea of fun) Anyway you could add some money to see who makes it to the end without crashing. Any prize would be more to offset the cost of therapy than any financial gain. So I thought I would propose a list of what I consider the Ideal Mahler Cycle ( A work in progress!) Here it is Mahler 1 : Bruno Walter, Columbia Symphony (L.A. Band) Only recording of the first I've ever owned. Have never thought to look for a second. Gritty sound/ beautiful playing. Incredible contrasts. Mahler 2 : Otto Klemperer, Philharmonia Orch and chorus. I'm still looking for the ultimate 2nd. I'm guessing this is it outside of a live performance Mahler 3: C. Abbado, Vienna Philharmonic. If you've never heard this one go buy/borrow it. This I think may be what Mahler intended for the trombone solo. Nature can be very subtle too. Mahler 4: Chailly, Concertgebouw. I don't own this I'm ashamed to say. Still getting over that trombone player in me. (Mahler 4 doesn't have trombones for those who are wondering) Mahler 5: Barbirolli, New Philharmonia Orch. Wow . Nuff said. Mahler 6: Boulez, Vienna Philharmonic. Not question here, Sound, Performance. Warning! Never drift off at the end of this piece!!! When you hear the last note you'll understand. It got me a few times - still recovering Mahler 7: Boulez, Cleveland. I know Boulez seems an unlikely champion of Mahler but with 6 and 7 it works. Boulez seems to interpret the music right out of the score. Skipping the ensemble altogether (this is great playing folks) if that makes any sense. He seems to solve the problem that is Mahler 7. Mahler 8: Inbal(sp) , Frankfurt. Don't own it - heard it once. This cycle could stand on its own very well. Mahler 9: Karajan, Berlin Mahler 10: Karajan, Berlin Phil. This set has some wonderful playing. Mahler is alluding to something entirely new in these two works (Berg, Shoenberg) and I believe that the Berlin players understand this best. I haven't heard the Cook completed 10th with Rattle and the CBSO but hear it's worth a listen. Well there it is. I'd love to see others on the list and their ideal cycle. Like I said it's a work in progress and tastes change over time. And I want to add that hearing a live performance of any of these by just about any orchestra totally eclipses any recorded performance! Some thoughts for a Friday afternoon. Darren Jukes P.S. If I was stuck on a desert island with only one CD(and stereo) it would be Celibiche's performance of Bruckner 7 with the Munich Philharmonic. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1922 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 13:05:10 -0500 From: Candice & Eric Swanson Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Do-it-yourself slide repairs Message-ID: <3A6098D5.D4E92806@worldnet.att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tricky Sam wrote: > What should I expect to pay and how long should I expect > to wait for a slide repair? Sam, I would think you are looking at $50 or less, unless you've really messed it up. If a shop can't get it done in a week or less, they need to hire more guys. Tell them you need it for a gig on a certain date. Eric Swanson ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1922 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 13:20:33 -0500 From: Candice & Eric Swanson Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Fw: Slide Repair Message-ID: <3A609C71.49E98DEE@worldnet.att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ken Barnes wrote: > Ferree's Tools makes a delightful device, called a > "Expandable Trombone Dent Removal Tool" that can > really save the day when neither shipping your instrument off > for a week nor borrowing one for tonight's gig is an > option. Ken, I have to strongly disagree. These slide expanders expand the entire slide tube, including the dents, they don't remove dents. Calling them "dent removal tools" is doing a disservice to the trombone community. Nothing against Ferree's, they make great tools. These expanders should be used only as a last resort to round out a slide that has been badly misshapen, after the dents have been removed. Trying to remove dents with an expander won't make the slide work that much better, and it will pretty much ruin the tube. Rather than investing a bunch of money in tools that you don't know how to use, I would suggest putting the money into a cheap used horn (or a slide) to use for emergencies. You'll be doing yourself a favor. Eric Swanson (Send for my do-it-yourself brain surgery kit, only $49.94) ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1922 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 14:53:01 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Fw: Mahler Recordings - Desert Island Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 1:57 PM -0500 1/13/01, Darren Jukes wrote: So I thought I would propose a list of what I consider the Ideal Mahler Cycle ( A work in progress!) DID lists are fun to do and always interesting, as it makes everybody an expert. And no composer's music generates more heat than Mahler's when it comes to personal taste. Darren's list reflects his taste as will all other lists, and, as he said, it will change over time. But it also reflects something else: the number of recordings you have listened to. Now, if you have 8 recordings of Mahler 3, then you have a basis of comparison to speak of an "Ideal" recording. But then again, probably not. What does "Ideal" mean? From the trombone point of view (which would seem to be rather parochial)? From the politically correct point of view (if you think the Vienna Philharmonic is a sexist institution, you won't listen to their recordings)? From a technology point of view (then you won't listen to a scratchy Bruno recording in favor of the latest DDD surround sound issue)? From a price point of view (then you might favor the Bohemian Opera Pick Up Ensemble on Naxos rather than the latest on Sony)? From a format point of view (Luddites wouldn't bother with a CD player)? From the point of view of fidelity to the score (then you wouldn't listen to a thing by Bernstein)? It takes a lot of time to listen to a lot of recordings, to compare them, to analyze them, to appreciate them. Tough work, but rewarding, for sure. Mahler generates particular heat with DID lists (just subscribe to the Mahler list for a little while and you'll see what I mean) because of the particular emotional power of the music. Of Darren's list, only one of his "Ideal" recordings makes much of an impression with me (the Bernstein/NY Phil Mahler 3) although I happen to have them all. But he's not wrong and I'm not right, we just have different measuring sticks and have lived different lives which inform our tastes. A year ago we went on with this thread for awhile, so my post from then is here below if you're interested. Since then I've added another 13 Mahler recordings to my collection, and I could go on and on about this, particularly Mahler 10 which continues to be issued in various completions (I just got a live broadcast of the Carpenter version with Litton and Bournemouth which will be recorded this season as well, this to add to the Krenek, Cooke I, Cooke II, and Mazzelli completions, with several recordings of each). Mahler. What a subject. -Doug Yeo ========== Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:08:24 -0500 Sender: owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Gustav Mahler At 1:46 PM -0500 9/27/99, Josh Grisham wrote: I realize that a lot of people know and play Mahler on a regular occasion on this list. ----snip---- Anyway, what I am bothering the list about is this: Does anyone suggest a/some recordings where I can hear good interpretations of his works? A great topic, Josh, and kudos again for your nicely worded and reasoned post. Here we go!....... Some good recommendations have already been made, and by now, you're realizing that a discussion of Mahler is bound to bring out some strong, passionate feelings! Mahler's music is so personal and so affecting that it reaches to a very deep level in many people. This would even extend to people who utterly dislike his music - there aren't many people I've met who are lukewarm about Mahler! There is no such thing as a "definitive" Mahler conductor or recording, despite what pundits and self-described experts may tell you. Every opinion you get is personal and passionate, and the fact is that there is something to be learned and gained from just about any Mahler performance. There are many "box sets" of the Mahler Symphonies by various conductors - Solti, Abbado, Kubelik, von Karajan, Bernstein, Ozawa, etc. I wouldn't buy one. No conductor does each symphony "best," no orchestra either. A "smorgasboard" approach would seem best in my mind. If you just want to know the music, any recording will suffice. Don't bother with what the critics and the reviews say - if you are serious about collecting recordings and getting to know music intimately, you will listen to/purchase many recordings until you find the one that speaks to you (even if it's one that all the critics have panned!). My collection of LPs, tapes and CDs has dozens of Mahler Symphony recordings (Sym 1: 5, Sym 2: 5, Sym 3: 8, Sym 4: 2, Sym 5: 6, Sym 6: 6, Sym 7: 9, Sym 8: 2, Sym 9: 2, Sym 10: 3, Das Lied: 3). Yours probably will someday, as well, if you catch the "Mahler bug" (I obviously have!). The so-called experts will tell you that when it comes to Mahler conductors, Horenstein is god, Ozawa is the anti-christ, Boulez has assumed the mantle, Bernstein couldn't get past the pot-induced "I dig Mahler" phase, Kubelik "understands", Abbado "moves", Rattle is "young", Solti is "rough" and more such tripe. It's all rubbish. One man's Bud Light is another man's champagne. Any recording has something you can learn from. Beware the experts (including anything I write here - it's just my OPINION). Trombone players have much at stake in the Mahler Symphony cycle - there's a lot more than the great first trombone solo in the 3rd Symphony. The tenor horn solo in 7 is a subject for huge interpretation and debate (we have discussed it on this list at some length), the trombone/tuba chorale in 2 sends chills down your spine, the breath control required for the Adagio of 10 taxes anyone who can't circular breath well, etc.... You're wise to want to "get to the music" via recordings, but don't miss the chance to hear an orchestra play Mahler live. Few composers register such a dramatic impact live than Mahler. A recording can capture a lot, but it can't substitute for the 6 octave unison "D" at the beginning of Sym 1, or the offstage brass in 2 or 3, or the shimmer of the sleigh bells in 5, or the power of the second cymbal crash in 5. The saying is true: Live music is best. Having said that, and also having said ignore the self-described experts, I have a few recommendations for you when it comes to recordings. A great place for the Mahler novice to start is "The Kaplan Mahler Edition" (Conifer Classics BM652). Gilbert Kaplan defines the words "Mahler nut." He's a billionaire and spends a lot of his money feeding his Mahler habit. He has done wonderful things for the cause of Mahler. He owns the original score to Sym 2 and has published it in a stunning facsimile edition, he also owns the autograph of the Adagietto of Sym 5, as well as the sketches for the Klopstock Chorale in 2 - all of which are available in fascimile (pricey, but unbelievable editions). He is not a trained musician, but studied with some of the world's finest conductors and can credibly conduct a single piece - Mahler 2. He has published a book with every known photo of Mahler, and collected hundreds of his letters. "The Kaplan Mahler Edition" includes 2 CDs which have so much about Mahler you just will have your eyes and ears popping out. You get a performance of Sym 2 with Kaplan conducting the London Symphony (a very credible performance, I might add). You also get him conducting the Adagietto of Sym 5. You ALSO get the "Mahler Piano Rolls" - piano rolls Mahler cut himself, as well as "Mahler Remembered" - oral recollections of Mahler by people who knew him. You also get an interactive CD-ROM called "The Mahler Album" (for Windows and Mac) which contains 150 photos, paintings and drawings of Mahler. As if that isn't enough, you ALSO get a 144 page booklet accompanying the CD which has a reproduction of every letter Mahler wrote concerning Sym 2, a discussion of Sym 2 and the Adagietto of 5, reproductions of several pages of Mahler's autographs of the scores and photos, etc. But wait, there's MORE. You ALSO get a complete copy of the full orchestral score of the original edition of Mahler 2. Yes, it's small, but readable. An incredible bargain, I think it can be found for under $30. Unreal, and a great resource for the beginning Mahlerite. Other recordings I find particularly interesting (I'll limit myself to 4, my list could go on, and on, and on....): Sym 3 - Bernstein, NY Philharmonic DG 427328-2. Joe Alessi plays a very fine solo (perhaps not as interesting as my live broadcast tape of the NY Phil under Sinopoli, but as fine as I've heard on a commercially available recording) and Bernstein adds his apocalyptic vision to the piece. LB can be "over the top" as someone has mentioned, but he can also be incredibly moving. I played many performances with LB including a Mahler 2 and that performance (in Washington's National Cathedral in 1985) has yet to be matched in my personal performing experience in terms of drama and mysticism. Sym 5 - Boulez/Vienna Philharmonic DG (I don't have the USA catalog number as I bought my copy in Japan, but it's available and still in the catalog). Boulez' Mahler has been widely acclaimed and I particularly like this recording of 5. The trumpet playing is outstanding and the VPO plays wonderfully. Remember Mahler was Music Director of the VPO at the turn of the century - there is some history there. While some of Boulez' other Mahler recordings leave me pretty cold (6 and 7, for instance), his 5 is superb in my mind. Rotary trumpets too. Yeah, they sound great. REALLY great. Sym 7 - Ozawa/Boston Sym Philips 426 249-2. OK, I'm partial to this one but it's not just because I played on it. I recorded all the Mahler Symphonies with the Boston Symphony (except 4 - no trombone parts, and 8, recorded before I joined the orchestra). I particularly like what we did with 2, 6, 7 and 9 (honestly I can't recommend our 1, 3 or 5), but 7 is my favorite. Prime to me in this work is the tenor horn playing of the first movement. Nobody - NOBODY - in my mind even touches the emotion Norman Bolter brings to this piece. And our duet (tenor horn and bass trombone) is something of two kindred minds. Ozawa's Mahler comes in for a lot of criticism, but frankly, I think there's more than a little bit of xenophobia there. When Ozawa's Mahler gets played "blind" it usually comes up pretty high. Sym 10 - Slatkin/St. Louis Sym RCA 09026-68190-2. Mahler 10 was never finished, but there are a number of "completions" (including one by Deryck Cooke which was done with Mahler's widow's blessing). To look at the facsimile score of this work is to be profoundly moved by the pace, fury and pain of Mahler, the man, near the end of his life. Slatkin's recording is of a new version by Remo Mazzelli, Jr. Some very different ideas than Cooke, especially the muffled drum in the finale. Extremely moving music regardless how you feel about the issue of completing an unfinished work. Many of my favorite performances are on tape, live broadcasts, including Das Lied with Ben Heppner and Thomas Quasthoff with Ozawa and the BSO from last season. In the end, you'll build your own collection and have fun becoming a self-proclaimed expert like the rest of us! Don't forget, of course, the immense written works about Mahler - the tomes by Henry Louis de-laGrange and Donald Mitchell (3 volumes each, and growing) are indispensable, along with smaller works like Peter Franklin's book "Mahler Symphony 3,". Jonathan Carr's "The Real Mahler" and Norman Lebrecht's book of compilations of people who knew Mahler, "Mahler Remembered." Add to this Gilbert Kaplan's "The Mahler Album" which contains every known photo of Mahler and you have the beginnings of a fine Mahler library. Finally, there are the facsimile scores for the serious student of Mahler; they are available for Sym 2, 5 (Adagietto), 7, 9, 10 and the Klopstock Chorale. See my FAQ on Score Study (in the "Resources" section of my website) for more info on how to obtain them. Wow, Josh, thanks for hitting a hot button for me. We are playing Mahler 2 this week in the Boston Sym so all of this is very much on my mind. Enjoy your quest to learn more about Mahler. One way or another, you will not be unchanged by the journey. All the best, -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1922 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 15:29:28 -0500 From: "Darren Jukes" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Mahler Recordings Message-ID: <001101c07d9f$8820d8e0$1f70d1d8@b1gsur79> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C07D75.9E4F0BC0" Thanks Doug My appologies if this topic has been done to death. Reletively new to the list. Perhaps the word "ideal" was inappropriate for such a mammoth undertaking. My collection is growing and owning a recording vs. borrowing one is another issue. How does one compare a recording they know intimatly through numerous listenings and one they've only listened to once?Ê Lists are fun and I was hoping to gain some insight into what other people would propose for such a party. I'm interested in whyÊ someone likes a recording as opposed to just listing them without any back up. Perhaps I should have gone into more detail describing the impact of each work had on me.I don't think anyone is looking to own only one recording of each symphony. I am certainly no expert on Mahler, simply enjoy the challenge and reward of listening and studying scores. My motivaton for this list at this time was to suggest some real contrast in interpretation/recording, and not neccessarily purely trombone content. A real sampling of whats available through the course of these works (If one had to listen to all 10 in a row) These are recordings I enjoy as a whole - overall musical impact. The list would probably be different tomorrow - Guess I was looking for some convincing arguments to discover some new recordings and change my mind. I do want to stress hearing Mahler (anything!) live. This is probably a sentiment already strong in this group. Cheers Darren Jukes ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1922 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 14:31:46 -0600 From: "Ken Barnes" To: Subject: Re: Fw: Slide Repair Message-ID: <009a01c07d9f$fdee5160$d12922d1@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eric Swanson wrote: > I have to strongly disagree. These slide expanders expand the entire slide > tube, including the dents, they don't remove dents. Calling them "dent > removal tools" is doing a disservice to the trombone community. Nothing > against Ferree's, they make great tools. These expanders should be used only > as a last resort to round out a slide that has been badly misshapen, after the > dents have been removed. Trying to remove dents with an expander won't make > the slide work that much better, and it will pretty much ruin the tube. > > Rather than investing a bunch of money in tools that you don't know how to > use, I would suggest putting the money into a cheap used horn (or a slide) to > use for emergencies. You'll be doing yourself a favor. > > Eric Swanson > (Send for my do-it-yourself brain surgery kit, only $49.94) ============================ Eric, Strongly disagree if you like, but I was speaking from a basis of *experience* , not theory, wishful-thinking or the claims of the manufacturer. Otherwise, I would never have mentioned them. It's true that if you use them with brute force to pull out a dent in one operation, you risk damage. But recall that I said "used judiciously and with a little fear at first". Perhaps a little practice with your "cheap used horn" might be in order, too, but your broad and authoritative assertion that "These slide expanders expand the entire slide tube, including the dents, they don't remove dents" is flatly wrong. In fact, the slide on my "cheap, used" 6H was virtually locked in 5th position when I bought it several months ago and now operates *quite* nicely, thank you, without any signs of stretching or other damage to the tube. I stand by what I said and (judiciously) overlook the rather presumptious "my tools that you don't know how to use" and rather sarcastic "Send for my do-it-yourself brain surgery kit." (8^>) Have a nice day. kb ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1922 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 15:57:06 -0500 From: "Paul D. Kemp Jr." To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: slide repair Message-ID: <008401c07da3$66b8c420$7bf51c3f@pauljr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mr. Strickland, I don't know where Milledgeville is, but in any event I'd spend the money and let John Upchurch do the repairs. He does a complete slide setup for $65, which includes cleaning out the slide, removing any dents, and then making sure that all 4 tubes are straight and the same distance apart. He may have to take a torch to either the inner slide or the outer slide at the hand brace, and I do know that there have instances where he has had to take the slide completely apart, but that is a very rare occurance. He's been a great friend and lifesaver sine I met him in 1987, and he's always learning better ways to work on slides. Unless I totally miss my guess, You will not know how you even played on your slide when he gets done with it, because it will be right, or he'll do it over again for free. He's 1 day from me here in Chattanogga UPS, and if you need it pronto, then pay the extra bucks and send it next day air. I'd call him before I sent anything to him. I don't know his new phone number off the top of my head, but you can get it from his website at www.slidedr.com Paul Kemp Chattanooga Symphony www.trbnplyr.com > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu > > [mailto:owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu] > > Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 11:22 PM > > To: Trombones and related issues forum. > > Subject: > > > > I recently damaged the slides on both of my trombones, and I canÕt find > > anyone in my area who can do the repairs cheaply and quickly and > > competently (itÕs the old engineerÕs saw, you can only pick two). I was > > wondering about the possibility of fixing the slides myself until I can > > have someone attend to it. > > If I were to take a properly sized piece of metal (aluminum, brass?) > > stock, rounded on one end and tapped on the other for easy removal, would > > I be able to insert it into the inner slides without damage? If so, can I > > find the specifications for my horn somewhere, or do I have to find some > > ID calipers? > > > > The method I would employ: > > 1: Determine inner diameter of inner slides > > 2: Purchase stock about .002 in smaller. > > 3: Round and tap stock. > > 4: Insert lubricated stock into inner slides. > > 5: With stock in, replace outer slide. > > 6: Work outer slide back and forth. > > 7: Remove stock. > > 8: Clean trombone. > > > > Will this get me by for a month or so? Is there anything I need to be > > aware of, like special coatings that could be damaged by this process? > > Tips on how to do it if this method wonÕt work? > > > > Cstrickland > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1922 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 16:24:21 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Wanted: Bass Trombone CD (Chevaillier) Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I'm looking for a copy of a CD I have heard about recorded by a French bass trombonist, Claude Chevaillier. The repertoire on the album reportedly is: Defaye Deux danses J. Naulais Monologue H. Tomasi Etre ou ne pas Etre J.M. Damase Prelude Elegie et Final F. Hidas Meditation G. Faure Sicilienne Luczinski-Beintus Ballade Luczinski-Beintus Le temps d'un tango Luczinski-Beintus Caraibasso I've not been able to locate it. If anyone knows where I might find it (on CD, evidently) please let me know. Thanks very much. -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1922 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 17:15:11 -0600 From: "Dean McCarty" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Hartford Audition Message-ID: <000901c07db6$af50c580$11c12bcf@compaqcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is this the same David Garcia that is from the Austin, TX area by chance that won that audition? ----- Original Message ----- From: Gabriel Langfur > David Garcia won the audition, ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1922 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 18:15:21 -0500 From: "Paul D. Kemp Jr." To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Newer isn't always better Message-ID: <001b01c07db6$b4b5b120$4af71c3f@pauljr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01C07D8C.CAC9F360" Dear listers: During the past several years I have become quite actively involved in the private teaching arena. I have found it do be rewarding on a personal basis. Of course, having a daughter in elementary school, I get a pretty good idea of what's being taught in the public schools, and to a large extent it alarms me. In fact, it alarms me to the point where I have found it in my daughter's best interest to move her to a Christian private school. Not only is she being challenged, but I have found that the privateÊinstitutions are not so quick to try every new method of education that comes down the pike. TheÊschool that we have chosen has by-in-large chosen to stick with the more traditional way of education where first of all, the children are expected to conform to a certain standardÊof behavior. In short, behavior probems of any kind simply are not tolerated. I have found that well-behaved children, provided that there are not any in-born learning disabilities, have the ability to learn anything. We don't have to fear that one of her classmates will bring a dangerous weapon to school in order to inflict harm on anyone. One of the other things that I've noticed is that she seldom brings home any homework because she is kept busy doing her work at school. In fact, she stay so busy that she doesn't have any time to get bored. She actually looks forward to going to school.Ê Now, what does this have to do with the trombone? Well, as far as the trombone is concerned, there is actually very little trombone content. However, what I'm about to discussÊdefinitely has to do with music education in general.Ê I do the majority of my private teaching in Georgia.ÊI realize now how blessed that I am to have had a good piano background before I ever learned the trombone because the music theory was already in place. It is a relatively simple matter to apply that knowledge to the trombone if it is learned well, and besides that, I didn't have to study theory or ear training in college outside of class for the first 3 semesters. (20th century theory was a booger, though.) It used to be that private piano study before studying any other instrument was the norm. Now it is the exception. My next point has to do with the wayÊbeginning students are taught in band. When it comes to rhythm and time, most are ABSOLUTELY CLUELESS. It seems that the main objective is to get instruments into the hands of the kids just as quickly as possible. It seemd to me that for at least the first 6 weeks of band class, it would be time much better spent learning the basic rudiments of music AWAY FROM THE INSTRUMENT. Learning the names of the lines and spaces in both clefs, (not just the clef you'll be playing the most of), noteÊtypes and their values, and the correct way to count them, and just as important is the mathematical correlation between note values. Anyone who hasÊproblems adding simple fractions really should consider another field of study other than music because all rhythm is putting together numbers and/or fractions together in various combinations in order to reach the number of beats that are supposed to be in that measure.ÊSimple arithmetic. The system that I am finding the most problems with is the DOWN-UP system, because the students are not made to learn where the subdivisions of the beat are. When I get these students in the private studio, the correlation between time and rhythm has never been introduced, therefore the cart has been placed before the horse.ÊThe tried and true method of teaching students to count rhythm still works very well. I am not convinced that our students are not smart enough to learn it the old fashioned way.Ê In discussions that I've had with my high school band director, who incidentally taught jr.high band starting in the 7th grade, he stated that he had all of his students start with a pair of drum sticks. They learned that a whole note was counted 1-2-3-4-stop. A half note was counted 1-2-stop.ÊA quarter not was counted 1-stop. The reason that he used the word stop was that the beat lasts until the beginning of the next beat.Ê4 stops at 1 of the next bar. He assumed that none of these students had never studied the piano, but first and foremost, they HAD TO LEARN TO READ AND COUNT. And all of that against a unwavering standard of time--and electronic metronomes hadn't been invented yet either. So, with all of that said, I'm betting that some of you are wondering, "Wow--6 weeks without touching a wind instrument and just learning music fundamentals. I'll really be able to hold their attention that way." Well, there are any number of ways to make music fundamentals interesting to younger students. All it takes is a bit of imagination. Besides that, if they don't have the discipline to learn the grass roots fundamentals, how much of a musical contribution are these children going to make to your program? I suspect very little. It seems that many middle school band directors have gotten away from teaching music and the idea that anything that is worth doing well has to be done right, and this concept carries over into all disciplines. All of that being said, NEWER ISN'T ALWAYS BETTER. Paul Kemp Chattanooga Symphony www.trbnplyr.com ÊÊ ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1922 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 18:26:19 -0600 From: "Brandon C. Moodie" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Fw: Slide Repair Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No, don't overlook those... that was the best part of the message. If you feel you're skilled enough to fix your own slides, go for it! However, I'll agree with Eric that for most people, this is a VERY bad recommendation, unless they really don't care how well their slide works. Good luck, --Brandon Moodie ================================================= Ken Barnes wrote: > I stand by what I said and (judiciously) overlook the rather > presumptious "my tools that you don't know how to > use" and rather sarcastic "Send for my do-it-yourself brain > surgery kit." (8^>) > > Have a nice day. > > kb =================================== > Eric Swanson wrote: > > > > Rather than investing a bunch of money in tools that you don't > > know how to use, I would suggest putting the money into a cheap used horn > > (or a slide) to use for emergencies. You'll be doing yourself a favor. > > > > Eric Swanson > > > (Send for my do-it-yourself brain surgery kit, only $49.94) > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1922 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 17:53:23 -0800 From: jimandcat@juno.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Cc: sabutin@mindspring.com Subject: Re: Jazz Message-ID: <20010113.175324.-578637.2.Jimandcat@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Regarding sabutin's long post Re: Jazz, Trombone L digest 1921, No 6 Wooo! Baby! Take a deep breath. That is one of the best damn articles about the vitality of music I have seen. Get that out there, Sam. Some place. This needs to go somewhere besides the trombone L, so it don't get lost in the hubbub. One of you brainy types, make sure this get's lissen' to, ya hear. Definitely New Yorker material. That been said. Ain't that true about all the history of music? Nobody set down and said, "I'm gonna create me a sonata form, and turn it into a symphony" It evolved, like you said, by the living of life of many musicians. All history is is looking back and creating patterns, identifying key personalities, pontificating that this led to that, etc. Real life are the people living and doing their thing with no thought about how or what it "creates". Another thought, the PBS TV thing is not for your ears (as jazz is) and not for your brain (as jazz is) and not for your heart and soul (as jazz is) but for your eyes (as jazz isn't), it has its limited and appealing value and I am taping it for my library, but it is just only video, not music. Nor is it history, like a good book, just ghostly fleeting images targeted towards a low common denominator of people who are more interested in well-known personalities who have some talent (like Marsalis, and Armstrong) rather than the working stiffs who really build the monuments. Hey, I'm taping it for my library, and I am pleased that it is out there. But Ken Burns has his own axe to grind, and it isn't about presenting the real story of Jazz. Otherwise there would be a hell of lot more music and a lot less gasbags. Jim Prindle ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1922 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 23:50:58 -0500 From: "Roger Carmichael" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Do-it-yourself slide repairs Message-ID: <00a701c07de5$97eabca0$82fd183f@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Chris, I know an excellent repairman in Burlington, NC. John Blythe ("The Band Doc") did a very nice restoration on my Olds slide recently for $40. His phone number is 336/513-2211. Give him a call, describe the damage, tell him I recommended him, maybe he can do wonders for your slide. Being in a small town, he can probably get to your work fairly quickly right now. If not, get in line to wait on the Slide Doctor. Good Luck! Roger Carmichael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tricky Sam" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 1:20 PM Subject: Do-it-yourself slide repairs > Point taken. I will not try to attempt repairs myself. The problem is not > so much a lack of competent repairmen, or exceedingly high prices, but that > everyone within a hundred miles seems to be so busy that I wonÕt see my horn > again for two months, unless I want to pay for a rush job (or go to a > repairman whose prices are extra high in the first place). I did read some > good things about the Slide Dr on the internet last night. > On a slightly different note, maybe IÕm just not sure what repair times and > prices should be. What should I expect to pay and how long should I expect > to wait for a slide repair? IÕm sure, after reading the slide dr website, > that I donÕt know everything that goes into one. > On a slightly differenter note, how does one go about learning trombone > repair? > > If anyone can suggest someone in the Milledgeville, GA area, IÕll be happy > to call them. ItÕs more than possible (extremely likely) that I donÕt know > most of the repairmen in this area. This is the first repair that IÕve ever > had to have done (in ten years of owning a decent trombone). > > Chris Strickland > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1922 Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 01:28:47 -0500 (EST) From: Beth Lewis To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Do-it-yourself slide repairs Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit When I sent a slide to Dr. Upchurch (aka slide dr), it only took him a few days to work on it. Just call ahead to make sure he's not swamped with work. He's good at answering stupid slide-related questions too :) Beth On Sat, 13 Jan 2001, Roger Carmichael wrote: > Chris, > > I know an excellent repairman in Burlington, NC. John Blythe ("The Band > Doc") did a very nice restoration on my Olds slide recently for $40. His > phone number is 336/513-2211. Give him a call, describe the damage, tell > him I recommended him, maybe he can do wonders for your slide. Being in a > small town, he can probably get to your work fairly quickly right now. If > not, get in line to wait on the Slide Doctor. > > Good Luck! > Roger Carmichael > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tricky Sam" > To: "Trombones and related issues forum." > Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 1:20 PM > Subject: Do-it-yourself slide repairs > > > > Point taken. I will not try to attempt repairs myself. The problem is > not > > so much a lack of competent repairmen, or exceedingly high prices, but > that > > everyone within a hundred miles seems to be so busy that I won’t see my > horn > > again for two months, unless I want to pay for a rush job (or go to a > > repairman whose prices are extra high in the first place). I did read > some > > good things about the Slide Dr on the internet last night. > > On a slightly different note, maybe I’m just not sure what repair times > and > > prices should be. What should I expect to pay and how long should I > expect > > to wait for a slide repair? I’m sure, after reading the slide dr website, > > that I don’t know everything that goes into one. > > On a slightly differenter note, how does one go about learning trombone > > repair? > > > > If anyone can suggest someone in the Milledgeville, GA area, I’ll be happy > > to call them. It’s more than possible (extremely likely) that I don’t > know > > most of the repairmen in this area. This is the first repair that I’ve > ever > > had to have done (in ten years of owning a decent trombone). > > > > Chris Strickland > > > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1922 Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 10:53:34 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Jazz Message-ID: <001b01c07e18$536ad8c0$0796fc3e@q9y6f8> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I seem to remember Louis Armstrong once summed up the meaning of jazz in one sentence: "Man, if you don't know what it is, you ain't got it", End of interview. A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk www.adios.co.uk ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1922--