TROMBONE-L Digest 1895

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Olds Ambasador
	by Phil Burton <philroymt@home.com>
  2) Re: New mouthpiece design?
	by sgreatwood@goconnect.net (Simon Greatwood)
  3) Re: New mouthpiece design?
	by sgreatwood@goconnect.net (Simon Greatwood)
  4) Re: Current Events
	by David Buckley <davebuckley@sympatico.ca>
  5) Re: primeslide bass trombone 'pieces
	by Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur <sarapete@sympatico.ca>
  6) Re: New Mouthpiece Design
	by jimandcat@juno.com
  7) RE: current events
	by jimandcat@juno.com
  8) Re: TROMBONE-L digest 1893
	by Dave Molter <kingbone@earthlink.net>
  9) Re: New mouthpiece design?
	by sabutin@mindspring.com
 10) Seeking the Lush Life
	by Matmutt@aol.com
 11) Re: New Mouthpiece Design
	by chardy@totcon.com
 12) Re: Where to buy trombone notes?
	by "Adrian Drover" <slide.rule@adios.co.uk>
 13) Re: Where to buy trombone notes?
	by "Joseph Sellmansberger" <sellmansberger@worldnet.att.net>
 14) Re: current events
	by alex iles <alexiles@earthlink.net>
 15) A thread suggestion (was:Gig haiku)
	by sabutin@mindspring.com
 16) Re: Where to buy trombone notes?
	by "Daniel Pliskin" <daniel_pliskin@hotmail.com>
 17) Re: Olds Ambasador
	by "Paul Hill" <pdhill@email.msn.com>
 18) Re: New Mouthpiece Design
	by "Hal Starkey" <hstarkey@kscable.com>
 19) Re: A thread suggestion (was:Gig haiku)
	by Matmutt@aol.com
 20) RE: current events
	by "Aaron Roth" <bassrange@hotmail.com>
 21) The missing Xenakis album
	by "Aaron Roth" <bassrange@hotmail.com>
 22) Re: The missing Xenakis album
	by Scott Ruedger <ruedgesh@email.uc.edu>
 23) Re: A thread suggestion (was:Gig haiku)
	by "smith.howard" <smith.howard@ntlworld.com>
 24) Fw: A thread suggestion (was:Gig haiku)
	by "smith.howard" <smith.howard@ntlworld.com>
 25) Fwd: Re: Olds Ambasador
	by Phil Burton <philroymt@home.com>
 26) A thread suggestion (was:Gig haiku)
	by BassBonist@aol.com
 27) Re: Olds Ambasador
	by "ksdowdy" <ksdowdy@msn.com>
 28) PrimeSlide Design mouthpieces
	by MikeSuter@aol.com
 29) Music Stores in NYC
	by "Jen and Andy Walls" <jenandandy@pa.net>
 30) Fw: Music Stores in NYC
	by "Joseph Sellmansberger" <sellmansberger@worldnet.att.net>
 31) Re: Olds nomenclature and era questions
	by Candice & Eric Swanson <swansonmacmail@worldnet.att.net>



From ???@??? Mon Dec 18 08:09:11 2000
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 06:13:27 -0700
From: Phil Burton <philroymt@home.com>
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Olds Ambasador
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20001217060244.024b2ec0@mail.grtfls1.mt.home.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

<x-flowed>I still play the one I had in high school.  It is a Fullerton model, 
1956.  I had the Factory overhaul it once, and a couple years ago, had a 
local rehab performed on it.  It is kinda like one of the family.  My Son 
played it for a while, my nephew did also.  I toted around for 30 years 
moving up and down the west coast, dusted it off in 94 and still play it on 
occasion.  I play an 88H, but the 'beatter' still hacks it, when the 
tendonitis in my left elbow starts acting up.

It is one heck of an instrument.  Like a Timex...takes a lickin but keeps 
on ticken..



Phil


</x-flowed>
From ???@??? Mon Dec 18 08:09:11 2000
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 00:58:07 +1100
From: sgreatwood@goconnect.net (Simon Greatwood)
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: New mouthpiece design?
Message-ID: <3a3cc663.369221@mail.goconnect.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Thanks to those who have mentioned the availability of rubber rims,
but the question was more related to the overall effect of using one.
Surely the rubber would insulate the skull from the resonance ofthe
metal, thus giving us a more useful idea of the sound we are
producing, as we are only then relying on the air vibrations, without
any interference from other resonance. I have no idea how it would
feel, either on the lips or moustache... and it may even flex
slightly, altering the rim size, but has anyone actually TRIED
something like this, but soft enough to stop the vibrations. THe other
thing is, by protecting the skull from resonance, I guess this would
dampen the overall resonance of the horn. If so, how much? Maybe this
is a more practical idea than Lindberg's tone enhancer on the bell
rubber thingy.

Simon

From ???@??? Mon Dec 18 08:09:11 2000
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 01:03:19 +1100
From: sgreatwood@goconnect.net (Simon Greatwood)
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: New mouthpiece design?
Message-ID: <3a3dc72c.571179@mail.goconnect.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Craig,

>It shouldn't be hard to try out the theory about separating the cranium 
>from the buzz.  Go to the hardware store and buy a roll of adhesive-backed 
>weatherstripping.  You can get this in felt or foam rubber.  With a little 
>trimming, you should be able to fashion a ring to stick on your favorite 
>mouthpiece.  Try it and see if there are any positive effects.

Thanks for the idea. I've had suggestions of trying a rubber coating
of some wort, but this is the easiest thing to try - will do.

>Personally I like things the way they are.  I figure if I didn't want my 
>body involved in the music, I should play the synthesizer.

I wasn't suggesting that i wanted my body out of the equation - body
feedback is essential. i was just saying that in some situations, the
lack of direct resonance could be useful for working on tone
production, without the use of another person or tape recorder.

Simon

From ???@??? Mon Dec 18 08:09:11 2000
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 09:12:57 -0500
From: David Buckley <davebuckley@sympatico.ca>
To: ellard@sprint.ca
Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: Current Events
Message-ID: <3A3CC9E9.802D71F9@sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 boundary="------------F9D4F02BE16A366B4A6E786A"

<x-html><!x-stuff-for-pete base="" src="" id="0" charset=""><!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
&nbsp;
<p>Rod Ellard wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><style></style>
<font size=-1>In this morning's paper
was a column about composer R. Murray Schaefer whose works include '"Princess
of the Stars" which is for performer and canoeists (the audience had to
travel to an Ontario lake at dawn)' and '"Music for Wilderness Lake" which
was scored for 12 trombonists and small lake" - in which audiences heard
the dying calls of trombones over distance and water."</font><font size=-1></font>
<p><font size=-1>Schaefer conducted this from a boat in the middle of the
lake using coloured cards to cue the players. A friend of mine, doug Burden
bass trombone of the National arts centre played in it. My guess is has
never been heard since the CBC TV taped it for air play.</font><font size=-1></font>
<p><font size=-1>What are governments for but to spend our money?</font><font size=-1></font>
<p><font size=-1>Dave.</font>
<br><font size=-1></font>&nbsp;
<br><font size=-1></font>&nbsp;
<br><font size=-1></font>&nbsp;
<br><font size=-1></font>&nbsp;<font size=-1></font>
<p><font size=-1>Next time hire trombonists who can swim, I guess.</font>&nbsp;<font size=-1>Schaefer's
most successful compositions are probably his grant applications. Whatever
the merits of such compositions, one can be pretty sure they would not
exist without grants from government (in Canada) and arts foundations.</font>&nbsp;<font size=-1>One
of Schaefer's string quartets include two t'ai chi dancers.&nbsp; I don't
know about you, but this sounds so twentieth century.</font>&nbsp;<font size=-1>Rod</font></blockquote>

</body>
</html>

</x-html>
From ???@??? Mon Dec 18 08:09:11 2000
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 09:43:33 -0500
From: Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur <sarapete@sympatico.ca>
To: "Trombones and related issues forum." <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: primeslide bass trombone 'pieces
Message-ID: <3A3CD115.FDDE2EE8@sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi list,

Does anybody have any information on how to contact Primslide? I have
never heard of this company and nothing came up on a www search on
dogpiles. Is there a URL? Where are they based? 

Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

Peter Collins

From ???@??? Mon Dec 18 08:09:11 2000
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 07:12:09 -0800
From: jimandcat@juno.com
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: New Mouthpiece Design
Message-ID: <20001217.072007.-233993.11.Jimandcat@juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
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Regarding rubber or plastic rimmed mouthpieces:

Being a slightly old fartist, I've seen these things once or twice each
decade, along with the completely plastic mouthpiece. Each time the
player (trumpet as well as trombone) who had one claimed how great they
were, but next time I saw them they were back on a normal mpc. From
listening to the guys using them, I thought they had a dull soft sound.
The guys liked the comfort factor, mostly pressure players. 

Jim Prindle
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
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From ???@??? Mon Dec 18 08:09:11 2000
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 07:20:06 -0800
From: jimandcat@juno.com
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: RE: current events
Message-ID: <20001217.072007.-233993.12.Jimandcat@juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

RE the Schaefer piece for trombones around a lake. I believe there was a
PBS documentary made about this piece. Anybody see it? I think they went
up to a remote lake in the Northwest Territories in very cold weather
and, coordinated by radio, performed the piece for themselves and the
wildlife. I've seen the score and was approached about performing it here
in San Diego around a large reservoir (what we call a lake in these
desert parts). It basically is imitating wolves calling to each other.
The project fell through do to a lake, 'scuse me, lack of interest. We
did have one trial rehearsal (in a band room), not everyone was there.
Because of the urban location and the proximity of homes, there would
have been more of an audience then at its premiere. ;^)

Jim Prindle
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

From ???@??? Mon Dec 18 08:09:11 2000
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 10:30:14 -0500
From: Dave Molter <kingbone@earthlink.net>
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: TROMBONE-L digest 1893
Message-ID: <3A3CDC06.B8F95DC0@earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Sabutin asked about Olds nomenclature:

 I suggest contacting Todd Clontz at Rosso Music. Todd seems to know a
lot about Olds horns. I have had only the Ambassador, a .500 student
horn, and the Super, which was a dual-bore (.485/.500) straight tenor
with red brass bell and the silver garland on the bell. It sounded great
but was slide heavy compared to today's models. Also try checking the
back listings of completed auctions on e-bay: you might get some info
that way.

Dave Molter

From ???@??? Mon Dec 18 08:09:11 2000
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 11:00:09 -0500
From: sabutin@mindspring.com
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: New mouthpiece design?
Message-ID: <200012171601.LAA15560@maynard.mail.mindspring.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 12:58 AM 12/18/00 +1100, you wrote:
>Thanks to those who have mentioned the availability of rubber rims,
>but the question was more related to the overall effect of using one.
>Surely the rubber would insulate the skull from the resonance ofthe
>metal, thus giving us a more useful idea of the sound we are
>producing, as we are only then relying on the air vibrations, without
>any interference from other resonance. 

===============================

   Au contraire, monsieur...

   The "skull resonance"...ESPECIALLY for a trombonist...is a VERY
important part of hearing what we're playing.

   I mean, it might be nice if the trombone bell was somewhere closer to
our ears, or situated someplace where it at least it was equally audible to
both ears, but that's not the way it works. A large amount of the airborne
sound we hear is the sound reflected from other surfaces surrounding us.

   If you're playing in a situation that has few or inefficient reflecting
surfaces, the sound you hear disappears, especially in a complicated sonic
situation. (It doesn't help that the sound of a trombone is a very complex
overtone structure, more complex than almost any musical instruments other
than french horn or tuba, and that it exists in the most crowded part of
the sonic spectrum of most ensembles.) 

   I think one of the reasons that plastic rims have never caught on (nor
have wooden m'pces) is that they DON'T send sound back to our skulls as
efficiently as do brass ones .

   I joke sometimes that I pitch my horn as much w/my left hand as I do
w/my ears in situations where I can't really hear as well as I might like,
but this only half a joke (and probably only a quarter of the truth as
well). I DO like a horn that has resonance that I can feel in my hand, and
I DO use that as a pitch/timbre tool, but really, it's the resonance inside
my head that tells me where I'm at when I find myself in sound situations
that aren't ideal.

   Players often say that they can't play w/earplugs, that it screws up
their playing and feel, but what earplugs REALLY do is make the skull
resonance more dominant in the hearing mix. That skull resonance is much
simpler, much truer in terms of pitch, and much less "pleasing" in an
esthetic sense than the beautifully realized sound that comes out of the
bell (at least the sound that comes out on our good days...). However, that
sound is coming out of the bell no matter WHAT players hear w/their ears,
and skull resonance is an important part of the package. I think this
phenomenon is also one of the real reasons people often have so much
trouble playing w/false teeth. They just can't hear themselves in the way
they've become accustomed.

   Anyway...gotta go...

   The equipment we play has evolved over several hundred years, and
although I believe there are always still useful advances to be found, a
soft-ish rim is not probably not one of them.

   Later...

   S.

================
I have no idea how it would
>feel, either on the lips or moustache... and it may even flex
>slightly, altering the rim size, but has anyone actually TRIED
>something like this, but soft enough to stop the vibrations. THe other
>thing is, by protecting the skull from resonance, I guess this would
>dampen the overall resonance of the horn. If so, how much? Maybe this
>is a more practical idea than Lindberg's tone enhancer on the bell
>rubber thingy.
>
>Simon
> 


From ???@??? Mon Dec 18 08:09:11 2000
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 11:37:16 EST
From: Matmutt@aol.com
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Seeking the Lush Life
Message-ID: <37.e308b97.276e45bc@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi folks;
    Yeah, aren't we all?
Anyway, I need a trombone feature big band or preferably smaller ensemble 
arrangement of Lush Life. Any leads??

                Happy Holidays,             Larry Priori
 

From ???@??? Mon Dec 18 08:09:11 2000
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 10:54:02 -0500
From: chardy@totcon.com
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: New Mouthpiece Design
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001217155402.006ef2ac@totcon.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Return-Path: <owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 07:12:09 -0800
>Reply-To: jimandcat@juno.com
>Sender: owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
>From: jimandcat@juno.com
>To: "Trombones and related issues forum." <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
>Subject: Re: New Mouthpiece Design
>X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,7-8
>X-Juno-Att: 0
>X-Juno-RefParts: 0
>X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN
>
>Regarding rubber or plastic rimmed mouthpieces:
>
>Being a slightly old fartist, I've seen these things once or twice each
>decade, along with the completely plastic mouthpiece. Each time the
>player (trumpet as well as trombone) who had one claimed how great they
>were, but next time I saw them they were back on a normal mpc. From
>listening to the guys using them, I thought they had a dull soft sound.
>The guys liked the comfort factor, mostly pressure players. 
>
>Jim Prindle
>________________________________________________________________
>GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
>Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
>Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
>http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
>
>Didn't Bill Harris use a clear plastic mouthpiece for mosyl of his career?
Charlie


From ???@??? Mon Dec 18 08:09:11 2000
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 18:06:19 -0000
From: "Adrian Drover" <slide.rule@adios.co.uk>
To: "Mike Suter" <mikesuter@aol.com>,
        "Trombones and related issues forum." <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: Where to buy trombone notes?
Message-ID: <00bb01c06854$3beb6cc0$1b8068d5@q9y6f8>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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	charset="us-ascii"
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----- Original Message -----
From: <MikeSuter@aol.com>
To: "Trombones and related issues forum." <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 3:37 AM
Subject: Re: Where to buy trombone notes?


> But if anyone DOES know of a good source, I'm running
> low on pedal F's.

I have a few to spare Mike.  I didn't get to use them on my last gig.  There
seems to be distinct lack of pedal notes required for "Moonlight Serenade".
Do you want them in 6th position, or thru' the valve?  I also have one or
two E sharps, and I think there might even be a G double flat lying around
somewhere.

A.

Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland)
Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk
Business: studio@adios.co.uk
www.adios.co.uk




From ???@??? Mon Dec 18 08:09:11 2000
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 12:26:41 -0600
From: "Joseph Sellmansberger" <sellmansberger@worldnet.att.net>
To: "trombone list" <TROMBONE-L@LISTS.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Where to buy trombone notes?
Message-ID: <006301c06856$eb294340$70935d0c@vogmudet>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<x-charset iso-8859-1>I think that the reason trombone notes are so unavailable for sale is that
since they mostly seem to lie between the notes played on most other
instruments, they must only come from other trombonists who, unfortunately,
seem to be using all of theirs up as fast as they can.

-Joe Sellmansberger


----- Original Message -----
From: "Adrian Drover" <slide.rule@adios.co.uk>
To: "Trombones and related issues forum." <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: Where to buy trombone notes?


> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <MikeSuter@aol.com>
> To: "Trombones and related issues forum." <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 3:37 AM
> Subject: Re: Where to buy trombone notes?
>
>
> > But if anyone DOES know of a good source, I'm running
> > low on pedal F's.
>
> I have a few to spare Mike.  I didn't get to use them on my last gig.
There
> seems to be distinct lack of pedal notes required for "Moonlight
Serenade".
> Do you want them in 6th position, or thru' the valve?  I also have one or
> two E sharps, and I think there might even be a G double flat lying around
> somewhere.
>
> A.
>
> Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland)
> Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk
> Business: studio@adios.co.uk
> www.adios.co.uk
>
>
>


</x-charset>
From ???@??? Mon Dec 18 08:09:11 2000
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 11:38:16 +0000
From: alex iles <alexiles@earthlink.net>
To: jimandcat@juno.com
Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: current events
Message-ID: <3A3CA5A2.F414EF31@earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
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Hi all,

>From what everyone is saying about this piece by Shaefer reminds me of a
Bruce Fowler composition/performance art piece called "The Last
Gompetheirum", written for his group, "Enormous Bones". The gomp. was one of
the last pre-historic mastadon-ish, pre-elephant mammals.

Bruce's piece calls for as large a trombone ensemble as feasible [there were
upwards of 30 or 40 players on one performance at the La Brea Tar Pits, a
pre-historic burial area for many unlucky critters]. The trombones entered a
few at a time from all over the place into a large grassy area [where the
audience gathered], acting like elephants; hunched over, ambling along,
using the slide as a "trunk". Once the bones/gomps enter, they begin to
graze on foliage, snort, sway back and forth , generally do what elephants
do. Occasionally, one of the players will trumpet a warning by blasting an
"against-the-grain" rip from 1st to 7th...[you all know this trick, I'm
sure], at which time the WHOLE group would gather around to see what's going
on... It is really quite a sight...The climax on the La Brea gig was when a
local trumpet player, dressed in a tiger suit, charged into the group to
attack an unsuspecting gomp. The group rallied, took to arms and chased the
infiltrator away [the chief defensive weapon being the 1st to 7th rip!!].
All the players exit the area as they chased the tiger away.

Last time we performed this piece was during the winter in a busy shopping
area in Pasadena. Local shoppers didn't quite know what to think, especially
when several of us decided to have an elephant-refreshement-break in a
courtyard fountain. Another time we performed it, a professional clown
"captured" us all [with a butterfly net and ropes] and put us into a circus
act [we even had to balance on one foot on a small basin]. With the right
group of players, in the right situation, these kinds of pieces can be
really fun to put together.

Alex



jimandcat@juno.com wrote:

> RE the Schaefer piece for trombones around a lake. I believe there was a
> PBS documentary made about this piece. Anybody see it? I think they went
> up to a remote lake in the Northwest Territories in very cold weather
> and, coordinated by radio, performed the piece for themselves and the
> wildlife. I've seen the score and was approached about performing it here
> in San Diego around a large reservoir (what we call a lake in these
> desert parts). It basically is imitating wolves calling to each other.
> The project fell through do to a lake, 'scuse me, lack of interest. We
> did have one trial rehearsal (in a band room), not everyone was there.
> Because of the urban location and the proximity of homes, there would
> have been more of an audience then at its premiere. ;^)
>
> Jim Prindle
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.


From ???@??? Mon Dec 18 08:09:11 2000
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 14:36:21 -0500
From: sabutin@mindspring.com
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: A thread suggestion (was:Gig haiku)
Message-ID: <200012171937.OAA17830@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 02:55 PM 12/15/00 -0400, you wrote:
>These were passed to me
>I've never seen them before
>Some are outrageous
>
>=====================

These are brilliant...but also extraordinarily bitter. 

   I feel sorry for the person (people?) who wrote these. Really.

   Musicians complain
  They complain when they're working
  And when they're not... why?

   Here's a thread suggestion...English haiku about the BEAUTY of being a
musician. (Haiku is a Japanese short poetry form that consists of three
lines...5 syllables, 7 syllables, and 5 syllables.0

   To start:

   Drummer on his game
   Bass player in the pocket
   Could life be better?

   The alto, singing
   Soars into the universe
   That enters my heart.

   Where does music start
   And where does it really go?
   No answer; not known

   Later...

   S.

===================
>
>Money's everything
>Playing any gig that comes
>Whores, we are all whores
>
>Squeaking and squawking
>All eyes roll to the heavens
>The clarinet speaks
>
>One beat to change from
>Harmon to cup to bucket
>Hey, who wrote this s---?
>
>The jam session starts
>Somebody calls "Giant Steps"
>Cold fear grips my brain
>
>Here's the girl singer
>Stepping to the microphone
>Pitch, Time, All gone now
>
>Gig is going well
>Idiot requests "In the Mood"
>I look at my watch
>
>I once had a dream
>Big house, new car, big money
>Now I play the bass
>
>Gorgeous chick tells me
>"You sound just like Kenny G"
>My ego shatters
>
>Three-eight, eleven-eight
>Damn you Andrew Lloyd Webber
>Five-eight, seven-eight
>
>The woodwind doubler
>Practicing the piccolo
>Frustration defined
>
>Pit orchestra gig
>Days and nights become as one
>I have no damned life
>
>Bad intonation
>Strings are sharp and reeds are flat
>Brass too loud again
>
>Great changes, good groove
>A one-in-a-million gig
>No singer.  Yippee!
>
>An oxymoron:
>"He played the accordion
>With delicacy"
>
>The accordion
>"Squeeze box," yes, but more often
>"The Stomach Steinway"
>
>Bassoons forever
>Try in vain not to sound like
>A farting bedpost
>
>The strings slowly tune
>When they're done the unisons
>Are anything but
>
>"I can't find my note"
>Bemoans the confused singer
>"Quit now," we all pray
>
>The contractor calls
>Months of Andrew Lloyd Webber
>"Bird Lives" no longer
> 


From ???@??? Mon Dec 18 08:09:11 2000
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 19:50:41 
From: "Daniel Pliskin" <daniel_pliskin@hotmail.com>
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: Where to buy trombone notes?
Message-ID: <F191rmTIVvLVKi3s1ws00001867@hotmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

<x-flowed>
I had another idea about buying notes.

I play a lot of wrong notes.  Theyâre not bad notes, though.  I just played 
them in the wrong place.

Anyway, Iâd be pleased to sell a few of them and, because theyâve already 
been played, youâll know before hand exactly what pitch they are and where 
to use them so that they sound good.

DanP

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


</x-flowed>
From ???@??? Mon Dec 18 08:09:11 2000
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 11:39:00 -0900
From: "Paul Hill" <pdhill@email.msn.com>
To: <philroymt@home.com>
Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: Olds Ambasador
Message-ID: <004c01c06869$673a4260$0857fea9@navak-n01n>

I received my Olds Ambassador for Christmas 1969...it was decrepit then ( is
"derelict" worse?).

Regarding "built like a tank"...mine survived pep band rallies, "drag races"
during BB game halftime shows and being painted blue/white then red/white
for HS and college.  Oh, yeah...I also played it in Symphonic Band and
Orchestra (even Youth Symphony for a year until I got my VERY used 88H!).

Don't get the idea that I abused it, either...used to clean it, polish with
"Pledge", etc.

Mine is still in my Dad's garage...he asks me about it every so often but I
am going to keep it!  There is some strange sentimental pull.  In fact, our
Band Director made us memorize our serial numbers for one of our weekly
"tests"...463609!  Is that funny, or what?

I still have my Olds "3" mpc...the shank shows mostly brass due to being
straightened so many times!

Hey, those kids who start out on Pro-line instruments with Thayer valves and
dual-bore slides will never know the joy of growing up with a PEASHOOTER!

Best Regards,
Paul





From ???@??? Mon Dec 18 08:09:11 2000
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 15:25:18 -0600
From: "Hal Starkey" <hstarkey@kscable.com>
To: "Trombone List" <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: New Mouthpiece Design
Message-ID: <00d101c0686f$daee9020$0c381b41@KSCABLE.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<x-charset iso-8859-1>
> >Didn't Bill Harris use a clear plastic mouthpiece for mosyl of his
career?
> Charlie


I don't know about Harris but I know I've seen at least a couple of photos
of Jack Teagarden with what looked like  a clear plastic mouthpiece.  The
photos seemed like they were from late in his carrer.

Hal




</x-charset>
From ???@??? Mon Dec 18 08:09:11 2000
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 16:23:33 EST
From: Matmutt@aol.com
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: A thread suggestion (was:Gig haiku)
Message-ID: <20.f79cf9f.276e88d5@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi;
  Here's a few I worked up. The syllables may not be perfect. I didn't count.


The crowd waits awkwardly
Our leader peruses the book
 There goes the damn set list

Drummer drags, piano pushes,
the bassman interprets.
Rhythm scizm

And on a more positive note:

Bones and trumpets soar,
the saxes blend.
a heavenly chord.

75 miles and 50 tunes
for 25 bucks?
What do I wear?             Larry Priori



From ???@??? Mon Dec 18 08:09:11 2000
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 17:27:37 -0500
From: "Aaron Roth" <bassrange@hotmail.com>
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: RE: current events
Message-ID: <F2017UJVKji15gyGJSy000021ef@hotmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

<x-flowed><<We did have one trial rehearsal (in a band room), not everyone was there.  
Because of the urban location and the proximity of homes, there would have 
been more of an audience then at its premiere. ;^)
>
>Jim Prindle>>

I guess it's hard to make a paying gig out of a regional premiere of 
anything; not too many professional instrumentalists are going to jump at an 
opportunity to play for nothing when their food and home come from getting 
paid to play.
      Incidentally, if they had anything like that in south Ga, they'd have 
at least ONE interested trombonist; unfortunately, the masses (such as there 
are in south Ga) would all take their guns to the performance if they heard 
anything about wolves....And I almost forgot, there aren't any real lakes in 
south Ga.
                                                          -Aaron Roth
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


</x-flowed>
From ???@??? Mon Dec 18 08:09:11 2000
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 17:33:53 -0500
From: "Aaron Roth" <bassrange@hotmail.com>
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: The missing Xenakis album
Message-ID: <F269ik6kvXsn2Yf0scL000021d6@hotmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

<x-flowed>Well everybody, I still haven't located this cd.  Apparently, Mr. Sluchin 
hasn't had much luck, either.  The Erato website has been under construction 
for the past four months or so, it seems, too.
     Does anybody have Iannis Xenakis's email address?  Maybe I'll just ask 
him.
                                                       Thanks,
                                                           Aaron Roth
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


</x-flowed>
From ???@??? Mon Dec 18 08:09:11 2000
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 18:27:55 -0500 (EST)
From: Scott Ruedger <ruedgesh@email.uc.edu>
To: Aaron Roth <bassrange@hotmail.com>
Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: The missing Xenakis album
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.21.0012171815530.18600-100000@oz.uc.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


Not sure if I'm repeating info or not...

Sluchin also has a recording of this on the Adda label (581087).  It's
available from tapmusic.com for $19.  Search under Classical Trombone for
Sluchin.

Our library here in Cincinnati has the Erato CD.  The CD# is 2292
45770-2.  It has works called: Phlegra, Jalons, Nomos alpha, and Thallein,
in addition to Keren.  The works are performed by the Ensemble
Intercontemporain, led by Pierre Boulez and Michel Tabachnik.

I think Erato may be restructuring some of its recordings, since I picked
up several Erato CD's at a Tower Outlet for low prices (didn't see this
one though).  I got the Brahms Symphonies with Chicago and Barenboim (4 CD
set) for $20!  Excellent playing, esp in #2.

Good Luck,
Scott


On Sun, 17 Dec 2000, Aaron Roth wrote:

> Well everybody, I still haven't located this cd.  Apparently, Mr. Sluchin 
> hasn't had much luck, either.  The Erato website has been under construction 
> for the past four months or so, it seems, too.
>      Does anybody have Iannis Xenakis's email address?  Maybe I'll just ask 
> him.
>                                                        Thanks,
>                                                            Aaron Roth
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> 


From ???@??? Mon Dec 18 08:09:11 2000
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 23:48:25 -0000
From: "smith.howard" <smith.howard@ntlworld.com>
To: <sabutin@mindspring.com>,
        "Trombones and related issues forum." <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: A thread suggestion (was:Gig haiku)
Message-ID: <002101c06883$e796d440$b9ecff3e@oemcomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<x-charset iso-8859-1>Here's one I sent to the OTJ Forum a few months ago. There were a few
replies with even better examples. Have look in their Chit Chat archive. I
think the thread was called "T.R.O.M.B.O.N.E........?"

patiently, for once,
hearing the art 'twixt the notes,
the trombonist counts

Howard

----- Original Message -----
From: <sabutin@mindspring.com>
To: Trombones and related issues forum. <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 7:36 PM
Subject: A thread suggestion (was:Gig haiku)


> At 02:55 PM 12/15/00 -0400, you wrote:
> >These were passed to me
> >I've never seen them before
> >Some are outrageous
> >
> >=====================
>
> These are brilliant...but also extraordinarily bitter.
>
>    I feel sorry for the person (people?) who wrote these. Really.
>
>    Musicians complain
>   They complain when they're working
>   And when they're not... why?
>
>    Here's a thread suggestion...English haiku about the BEAUTY of being a
> musician. (Haiku is a Japanese short poetry form that consists of three
> lines...5 syllables, 7 syllables, and 5 syllables.0
>
>    To start:
>
>    Drummer on his game
>    Bass player in the pocket
>    Could life be better?
>
>    The alto, singing
>    Soars into the universe
>    That enters my heart.
>
>    Where does music start
>    And where does it really go?
>    No answer; not known
>
>    Later...
>
>    S.
>
> ===================
> >
> >Money's everything
> >Playing any gig that comes
> >Whores, we are all whores
> >
> >Squeaking and squawking
> >All eyes roll to the heavens
> >The clarinet speaks
> >
> >One beat to change from
> >Harmon to cup to bucket
> >Hey, who wrote this s---?
> >
> >The jam session starts
> >Somebody calls "Giant Steps"
> >Cold fear grips my brain
> >
> >Here's the girl singer
> >Stepping to the microphone
> >Pitch, Time, All gone now
> >
> >Gig is going well
> >Idiot requests "In the Mood"
> >I look at my watch
> >
> >I once had a dream
> >Big house, new car, big money
> >Now I play the bass
> >
> >Gorgeous chick tells me
> >"You sound just like Kenny G"
> >My ego shatters
> >
> >Three-eight, eleven-eight
> >Damn you Andrew Lloyd Webber
> >Five-eight, seven-eight
> >
> >The woodwind doubler
> >Practicing the piccolo
> >Frustration defined
> >
> >Pit orchestra gig
> >Days and nights become as one
> >I have no damned life
> >
> >Bad intonation
> >Strings are sharp and reeds are flat
> >Brass too loud again
> >
> >Great changes, good groove
> >A one-in-a-million gig
> >No singer.  Yippee!
> >
> >An oxymoron:
> >"He played the accordion
> >With delicacy"
> >
> >The accordion
> >"Squeeze box," yes, but more often
> >"The Stomach Steinway"
> >
> >Bassoons forever
> >Try in vain not to sound like
> >A farting bedpost
> >
> >The strings slowly tune
> >When they're done the unisons
> >Are anything but
> >
> >"I can't find my note"
> >Bemoans the confused singer
> >"Quit now," we all pray
> >
> >The contractor calls
> >Months of Andrew Lloyd Webber
> >"Bird Lives" no longer
> >
>
>


</x-charset>
From ???@??? Mon Dec 18 08:09:11 2000
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 23:51:09 -0000
From: "smith.howard" <smith.howard@ntlworld.com>
To: "Trombones and related issues forum." <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Subject: Fw: A thread suggestion (was:Gig haiku)
Message-ID: <002b01c06884$3ae79080$b9ecff3e@oemcomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<x-charset iso-8859-1>
----- Original Message -----
From: smith.howard <smith.howard@ntlworld.com>
To: <sabutin@mindspring.com>; Trombones and related issues forum.
<trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 11:48 PM
Subject: Re: A thread suggestion (was:Gig haiku)


> Here's one I sent to the OTJ Forum a few months ago. There were a few
> replies with even better examples. Have look in their Chit Chat archive. I
> think the thread was called "T.R.O.M.B.O.N.E........?"
>
> patiently, for once,
> hearing the art 'twixt the notes,
> the trombonist counts
>
> Howard
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <sabutin@mindspring.com>
> To: Trombones and related issues forum. <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 7:36 PM
> Subject: A thread suggestion (was:Gig haiku)
>
>
> > At 02:55 PM 12/15/00 -0400, you wrote:
> > >These were passed to me
> > >I've never seen them before
> > >Some are outrageous
> > >
> > >=====================
> >
> > These are brilliant...but also extraordinarily bitter.
> >
> >    I feel sorry for the person (people?) who wrote these. Really.
> >
> >    Musicians complain
> >   They complain when they're working
> >   And when they're not... why?
> >
> >    Here's a thread suggestion...English haiku about the BEAUTY of being
a
> > musician. (Haiku is a Japanese short poetry form that consists of three
> > lines...5 syllables, 7 syllables, and 5 syllables.0
> >
> >    To start:
> >
> >    Drummer on his game
> >    Bass player in the pocket
> >    Could life be better?
> >
> >    The alto, singing
> >    Soars into the universe
> >    That enters my heart.
> >
> >    Where does music start
> >    And where does it really go?
> >    No answer; not known
> >
> >    Later...
> >
> >    S.
> >
> > ===================
> > >
> > >Money's everything
> > >Playing any gig that comes
> > >Whores, we are all whores
> > >
> > >Squeaking and squawking
> > >All eyes roll to the heavens
> > >The clarinet speaks
> > >
> > >One beat to change from
> > >Harmon to cup to bucket
> > >Hey, who wrote this s---?
> > >
> > >The jam session starts
> > >Somebody calls "Giant Steps"
> > >Cold fear grips my brain
> > >
> > >Here's the girl singer
> > >Stepping to the microphone
> > >Pitch, Time, All gone now
> > >
> > >Gig is going well
> > >Idiot requests "In the Mood"
> > >I look at my watch
> > >
> > >I once had a dream
> > >Big house, new car, big money
> > >Now I play the bass
> > >
> > >Gorgeous chick tells me
> > >"You sound just like Kenny G"
> > >My ego shatters
> > >
> > >Three-eight, eleven-eight
> > >Damn you Andrew Lloyd Webber
> > >Five-eight, seven-eight
> > >
> > >The woodwind doubler
> > >Practicing the piccolo
> > >Frustration defined
> > >
> > >Pit orchestra gig
> > >Days and nights become as one
> > >I have no damned life
> > >
> > >Bad intonation
> > >Strings are sharp and reeds are flat
> > >Brass too loud again
> > >
> > >Great changes, good groove
> > >A one-in-a-million gig
> > >No singer.  Yippee!
> > >
> > >An oxymoron:
> > >"He played the accordion
> > >With delicacy"
> > >
> > >The accordion
> > >"Squeeze box," yes, but more often
> > >"The Stomach Steinway"
> > >
> > >Bassoons forever
> > >Try in vain not to sound like
> > >A farting bedpost
> > >
> > >The strings slowly tune
> > >When they're done the unisons
> > >Are anything but
> > >
> > >"I can't find my note"
> > >Bemoans the confused singer
> > >"Quit now," we all pray
> > >
> > >The contractor calls
> > >Months of Andrew Lloyd Webber
> > >"Bird Lives" no longer
> > >
> >
> >
>


</x-charset>
From ???@??? Mon Dec 18 08:09:11 2000
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 16:51:07 -0700
From: Phil Burton <philroymt@home.com>
To: pdhill@email.msn.com
Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Fwd: Re: Olds Ambasador
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20001217164430.02c09950@mail.grtfls1.mt.home.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

<x-flowed>Hi Paul, thanks for your history on your Olds.

My serial number (not memorized) is: 151436  and I had my Olds 3 mouthpiece 
chrome plated because back in the late 50's there was a saying in Southern 
California... "if it don't go, chrome it" reffering to souping up 
cars.  Since I was not that great of a player it seemed appropriate.

I use a gold plated Wick on my 88H, but it came with the horn, otherwise I 
am sure I would have left it stock.

Phil


</x-flowed>
From ???@??? Mon Dec 18 08:09:11 2000
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 19:17:15 EST
From: BassBonist@aol.com
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: A thread suggestion (was:Gig haiku)
Message-ID: <4f.4f350db.276eb18b@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Playing my trombone
Touching the universal
Sharing what I feel


Dig the trumpet wail
Sax riff, drum beat, walking bass
Neon smoke filled room

Mozart in morning,
Bach during the afternoon
Debussy wrote dreams

Lo the trombones chant
Like the hunt-horn in distance
Calling me back home



Matt Varho

From ???@??? Mon Dec 18 08:09:11 2000
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 19:30:52 -0600
From: "ksdowdy" <ksdowdy@msn.com>
To: <pdhill@email.msn.com>,
        "Trombones and related issues forum." <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: Olds Ambasador
Message-ID: <01a001c06892$52d0bf60$91190f3f@m2y9x8>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<x-charset iso-8859-1>Amen to that!   I don't know what it is about the Ambassador, its bell fair
or the thickness of the brass, but they are about the best sounding student
model horns ever built.  Both of mine sound nice and warm when played
softly, and then scream with a good sharp edge when pushed.  I find it very
easy to express different emotions and tones on the Ambassador.  I kinda
feel sorry for all of the kids that move to quickly to the big bores and
rotors.  They are missing a very important part of playing the trombone.  I
feel even more sorry for them considering most have been cheated out of the
experience.

KSD

----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Hill <pdhill@email.msn.com>
To: Trombones and related issues forum. <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: Olds Ambasador


> I received my Olds Ambassador for Christmas 1969...it was decrepit then
 is
> "derelict" worse?).
>
> Regarding "built like a tank"...mine survived pep band rallies, "drag
races"
> during BB game halftime shows and being painted blue/white then red/white
> for HS and college.  Oh, yeah...I also played it in Symphonic Band and
> Orchestra (even Youth Symphony for a year until I got my VERY used 88H!).
>
> Don't get the idea that I abused it, either...used to clean it, polish
with
> "Pledge", etc.
>
> Mine is still in my Dad's garage...he asks me about it every so often but
I
> am going to keep it!  There is some strange sentimental pull.  In fact,
our
> Band Director made us memorize our serial numbers for one of our weekly
> "tests"...463609!  Is that funny, or what?
>
> I still have my Olds "3" mpc...the shank shows mostly brass due to being
> straightened so many times!
>
> Hey, those kids who start out on Pro-line instruments with Thayer valves
and
> dual-bore slides will never know the joy of growing up with a PEASHOOTER!
>
> Best Regards,
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>



</x-charset>
From ???@??? Mon Dec 18 08:09:11 2000
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:28:28 EST
From: MikeSuter@aol.com
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: PrimeSlide Design mouthpieces
Message-ID: <37.e32696b.276ede5c@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi Guys,

I've been staying out of the discussion regarding my PSD mouthpieces for the 
obvious reason of list ethics, and will continue to do so. But there have 
been a couple of queries that I CAN respond to:

Web Site: the address is <http://www.slidewerke.com> but it is currently 
off-line. Stroke, cancer operation, heart surgery, lung surgery, and recovery 
from same have taken a lot of my time (and ALL my $$$). So it will be up 
later in 2001. However you can e-mail me or call (805-374-9545) and I'll be 
most happy to answer any and all questions you may have. Be warned though; I 
am an opinionated old coot - not mean or nasty (honest) - just opinionated 
and unafraid to voice my thoughts.

I have been asked, but I will not give the names of people who are using my 
'pieces on-list because it would invade their privacy - but you can get that 
info from me one-on-one. 

I can say, however that Jeff Reynolds tried my 'pieces and does not like 
them. I respect him very much, and his reasoning is well thought and valid 
for what he does, so I don't dispute his findings (now, let's hear Bach and 
Schilke talk about THEIR detractors) but I think I am entitled to a rebuttal. 
Contact me off-list.

All The Best,
Mike Suter
Slidewerke
PrimeSlide Design

From ???@??? Mon Dec 18 08:09:11 2000
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 23:08:43 -0500
From: "Jen and Andy Walls" <jenandandy@pa.net>
To: <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Subject: Music Stores in NYC
Message-ID: <003c01c068a8$369fa340$5f43e4ce@0016344132>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0039_01C0687E.4CEF67E0"

<x-html><!x-stuff-for-pete base="" src="" id="0" charset="iso-8859-1"><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face="Book Antiqua" size=2>Merry Christmas Everyone,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Book Antiqua" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Book Antiqua" size=2>My wife's family is treating us to a trip 
to New York City to catch a couple of musicals just after Christmas.&nbsp; I 
heard there are a lot of really good sheet music shops there.&nbsp; Can anyone 
recommend&nbsp;one or&nbsp;two&nbsp;to me that has lots of trombone music?&nbsp; 
If you know the address too that would be helpful.&nbsp; If not, just a name 
will be fine and I'll look for an address on the web.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Book Antiqua" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Book Antiqua" size=2>Cheers,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Book Antiqua" size=2>Andy Walls</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Book Antiqua" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Book Antiqua" size=2>p.s. - Christmas is a wonderful time of 
year.&nbsp; I make lots of money playing the trombone.&nbsp; And this really 
cool guy came into the world to show me that I can have eternal life.&nbsp; Too 
bad the former doesn't last nearly as long as the latter!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

</x-html>
From ???@??? Mon Dec 18 08:09:11 2000
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:27:55 -0600
From: "Joseph Sellmansberger" <sellmansberger@worldnet.att.net>
To: "trombone list" <TROMBONE-L@LISTS.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Fw: Music Stores in NYC
Message-ID: <007601c068aa$e84c08c0$96945d0c@vogmudet>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<x-charset iso-8859-1>Perhaps there are some good sheet music outlets in Manhattan (I'll be there
myself from the 26th-28th.), but the granddaddy of them all of course
(trombone-wise) is up the road from there in North Easton, Mass in a
converted church building - Robert King Music.

-Joe S.

----- Original Message -----
From: Jen and Andy Walls
To: Trombones and related issues forum.
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 10:08 PM
Subject: Music Stores in NYC


Merry Christmas Everyone,

My wife's family is treating us to a trip to New York City to catch a couple
of musicals just after Christmas.  I heard there are a lot of really good
sheet music shops there.  Can anyone recommend one or two to me that has
lots of trombone music?  If you know the address too that would be helpful.
If not, just a name will be fine and I'll look for an address on the web.

Cheers,
Andy Walls

p.s. - Christmas is a wonderful time of year.  I make lots of money playing
the trombone.  And this really cool guy came into the world to show me that
I can have eternal life.  Too bad the former doesn't last nearly as long as
the latter!


</x-charset>
From ???@??? Mon Dec 18 08:09:11 2000
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:24:27 -0500
From: Candice & Eric Swanson <swansonmacmail@worldnet.att.net>
To: trombone-l <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: Olds nomenclature and era questions
Message-ID: <3A3D836A.1176BDA1@worldnet.att.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I wrote to Matthew in regard to his post about Olds models.  He suggested I post
my letter to the list.  Matt's original post is quoted next to the >s
_________________________________

Matthew,

I wanted to confer with you about these Olds statistics.  I have Olds catalogs
from 1966, 1973, and 1977....

Matthew Stoecker wrote:

> Actually, the Olds Opera was a .554 bore.  It was a BIG machine

Agreed.  Had one of these (O-23) in high school, used it as both a  tenor and a
halfway decent bass trombone.  By 1973 it was the O-25 and had a red brass
bell.

>
> The Super:  Top of the line, small bore horn.  .485-.495 dual bore.

I always understood that the Recording was the top of the line.  I'm pretty
sure it cost more anyway, but the pictures always look almost identical.  The
1966 catalog doesn't give the bore, 1973 says it's .485/.500"

>
> The Special:  Any of a number of different models.  A dual bore (.485-.495),
> sometimes brass, sometimes nickel plated, occasionally solid nickel with a
> brass or Rey-O-Loy (a nickel silver/copper weird alloy, I think) bell flare.

The 1966 catalog has the "tri-colored" version, it looks to be mostly the same
parts as the Studio, and is dual bore but doesn't say what bore.  the 1973 and
1977 catalogs say 485/500 bore and it's all nickel plated, almost looks like a
nickel plated Ambassador.

> The Studio:  Same side as the special, brass with a nickel silver bell
> flare.

The 1966 catalog says straight .500" bore on the Studio, and nickel plated.
Your catalog is from a different year I bet, they changed these models all the
time.

> The Custom.  Supposedly great.  I've not seen one.  I believe in the .500
> bore range.

1966 and 1973 catalogs show pretty much the same horn, the P-15.  .500 bore, 8"
yellow brass bell, the rest nickel.  Very plain looking.  The 1977 catalog is
completely different, the P-16, which is almost all brass, .500 bore and 7.5"
bell.  Mentions that Burt Herrick helped design it.

> The Recording.  These are nice! Fluted slides, .495-.505 bore, 8 inch bell.
>

All the catalogs list the Recording as .495/510 bore.  The 1966 cat. lists the
R-15, and the R-20 with f attachment.  By 1973, the R-15 had disappeared, and
the R-20 had a 8.5" bell.

>
> The Superstar.  An intermediate model with F attachment.

The 1077 cat. shows the V-20 with same stats as the R-20.  It looks different,
was silver plated, and cheaper.
-----------------------------------

Hope anyone who cares about Olds gets something out of all this.  Anyone
else...why are you still reading?

Eric Swanson